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(WPRI Rhode Island)   As we try to find $85 billion in cuts to meet the "sequester", here's a timely report that concludes that the $60 billion we spent re-constructing Iraq, was basically all wasted, to say nothing of the $767 billion we spent DE-constructing it   (wpri.com) divider line 141
    More: Sad, Iraq, President of Iraq, Deputy Secretary of State, Maliki, Iraqi security forces, Sunni Muslims, infighting, gas pipelines  
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1451 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Mar 2013 at 11:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-06 12:39:16 PM  

JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.


What a load of ignorant horseshiat.
 
2013-03-06 12:40:15 PM  

Cletus C.: It's what our country does. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Stupid, costly wars.

Yes, the Iraq war was particularly moronic. But those other two had their share of pointlessness. Korea and Vietnam were meat grinders, chewing up young American lives. Iraq fatalities paled by comparison, at least.

But all bad wars. Bush and his minions own that Iraq mess. Now the question is where we'll wage our next stupid war. Iran? North Korea?

What is it with this country?


Integrated world capitalism?
 
2013-03-06 12:41:21 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-06 12:47:52 PM  
If you support the Republicans, you're either evil or ignorant. And that is the truth.
 
2013-03-06 12:51:15 PM  
But we were told that the Iraq war would pay for itself because of oil.
 
2013-03-06 12:54:14 PM  

olderbudnoweiser: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 358x358]


I'll put that back together for a meager $6 billion.
 
2013-03-06 12:56:15 PM  
Hey that's just some stuff that happened. Things happen and in this case it wasn't perfect but it's silly to worry about things you can't change.

Besides BENGHAZI!!! and 0bama goes golfing and where did these huge bills for some old forgotten wars come from anyway? Sounds like 0bammy is really farkin up. We really need to reduce all this spending and get these jobless moochers off the government teet.
 
2013-03-06 12:57:34 PM  

DamnYankees: If we've learned anything from the past few years, it's that the years 2001 to 2009 didn't happen. Everyone was on vacation.


Iraq invited us.  Punch was served!

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-03-06 12:59:49 PM  
America lost its empire in the ME. You just haven't figured that out yet.
 
2013-03-06 01:03:51 PM  

phaseolus: Rev.K: Ivo Shandor: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.

My God, how f*cking retarded do you have to be to go along with that asinine bit of "logic"?

"Yeah, we can go in and blow all the sh*t up we want, Iraq has a few spare billions lying around just waiting to rebuild the country".


The good news is this argument isn't convincing anymore, and won't work for a long time. Public opinion polling leading up to the 2012 elections showed that Ds were outpolling Rs on national security. I'm not aware if anyone's dug into this since election day, and yeah, security/foreign affairs wasn't the electorate's biggest worry in November, but still it would be fascinating to learn how many votes Romney lost because he recruited W.'s old national security policy guys...


I would love to share your optimism in this regard.  I'm sure after Vietnam many people said the exact same thing.  "The US will never do this again".  Now we have the generation that grew up with Vietnam in power, and they continue to try to do it.

I give it another 5 - 10 years tops before we find ourselves in another conflict somewhere so we can spend American lives on some stupid adventure.
 
2013-03-06 01:07:32 PM  
Someone needs a fair and speedy trial and a swift execution.
 
2013-03-06 01:10:19 PM  
**does the math**

$1,920 dollars per Iraqi.

I'm sure the average Iraqi would be better off with a check, but then all of Cheney's cronies from Halliburton wouldn't get those sweet no-bid reconstruction contracts.
 
2013-03-06 01:11:49 PM  
Do you know how much it costs to bring freedom people, really? I mean it comes in small parcels weighing 500lbs for starters, do you realize the shipping costs involved with that?
 
2013-03-06 01:11:50 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.


Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.
 
2013-03-06 01:18:17 PM  

pxsteel: Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.


wut
 
2013-03-06 01:23:07 PM  

pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.


Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.
 
m00
2013-03-06 01:26:54 PM  

unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.


yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.
 
2013-03-06 01:27:56 PM  

unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.


Killing people en masse: Well, let's do it and hope it turns out okay.

Proven effective domestic policy to alleviate poverty: NO THERE'S A SMALL POSSIBILITY THAT SOMEONE SOMEWHERE MIGHT GET SOMETHING THEY DON'T DESERVE AND WE CAN'T RISK THAT.
 
2013-03-06 01:28:08 PM  

BMulligan: JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.

What a load of ignorant horseshiat.


How so?
 
2013-03-06 01:31:52 PM  

Famous Thamas: phaseolus: Rev.K: Ivo Shandor: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.

My God, how f*cking retarded do you have to be to go along with that asinine bit of "logic"?

"Yeah, we can go in and blow all the sh*t up we want, Iraq has a few spare billions lying around just waiting to rebuild the country".


The good news is this argument isn't convincing anymore, and won't work for a long time. Public opinion polling leading up to the 2012 elections showed that Ds were outpolling Rs on national security. I'm not aware if anyone's dug into this since election day, and yeah, security/foreign affairs wasn't the electorate's biggest worry in November, but still it would be fascinating to learn how many votes Romney lost because he recruited W.'s old national security policy guys...

I would love to share your optimism in this regard.  I'm sure after Vietnam many people said the exact same thing.  "The US will never do this again".  Now we have the generation that grew up with Vietnam in power, and they continue to try to do it.

I give it another 5 - 10 years tops before we find ourselves in another conflict somewhere so we can spend American lives on some stupid adventure.


You don't sound excited about our solemn commitment to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.
 
2013-03-06 01:31:56 PM  

m00: unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.

yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.


And it mandates that everyone must buy ins coverage. People who can't afford it get assistance.

/single payer is what we actually need though.
 
2013-03-06 01:36:26 PM  

pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.


Conflating secular Baathist Saddam with Al-Qaeda, failing to mention the terrorist training camp were in Kurdish territory and training anti-Saddam insurgents.  Magnificent. 10/10
 
2013-03-06 01:37:02 PM  

JesusJuice: BMulligan: JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.

What a load of ignorant horseshiat.

How so?


Prior to the first Gulf War, what was the state of Iraq's middle class? Its civil institutions? Its infrastructure? Its educational facilities?

Do a little research on these questions, educate yourself, then come back here and we can have a reasonable, intelligent discussion about the Ba'athists failure to extend the benefits of Iraqi cultural advancement to the mostly rural Shi'ite population - a serious miscalculation, to be sure, which however in no way implies a general lack of cultural advancement in pre-war Iraq.
 
m00
2013-03-06 01:38:24 PM  

unexplained bacon: m00: unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.

yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.

And it mandates that everyone must buy ins coverage. People who can't afford it get assistance.

/single payer is what we actually need though.


I think if we want socialized medicine, we should have socialized medicine. but Obamacare isn't socialized medicine, it merely legislates that everyone must purchase insurance from a private provider but then gives discounts or rebates to the poor. But it's still just a payout to the Insurance industry.
 
2013-03-06 01:40:59 PM  

GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it


Yes because the price of gas has done nothing but plummet since 2003.

/the reason we're in the mid east is a lot more insidious than oil
 
2013-03-06 01:43:24 PM  

MattStafford: But even still, MIC cuts are fought by the left because it will result in job losses.


Everyone here knows you are a liar and an imbecile, god knows why you keep posting, but you finally seem to have a point.

The "left" cares about jobs. Though the easily graspable nuances of Keynesian Economics are hopelessly lost on you, they are not on all.

The left and, sadly by extension, the Democrats care about jobs and economic recovery.

The sequester does neither for those thanks for admitting that.

Oh yeah,,,,,Plonk
 
2013-03-06 01:43:45 PM  
Hey, that was back when Reagan had proved deficits don't matter.*

*Offer void during Democratic administrations. Other terms and conditions may apply, see Rush Limbaugh for details.
 
2013-03-06 01:44:52 PM  

LordJiro: GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it

No, if there wasn't oil in the Middle East, we'd have ignored it almost completely by now. See: Africa.


Came here to say this. There are lots of brown people we haven't even TRIED to liberate, because their economies are based on sticks and mud.
 
2013-03-06 01:46:04 PM  

m00: unexplained bacon: m00: unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.

yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.

And it mandates that everyone must buy ins coverage. People who can't afford it get assistance.

/single payer is what we actually need though.

I think if we want socialized medicine, we should have socialized medicine. but Obamacare isn't socialized medicine, it merely legislates that everyone must purchase insurance from a private provider but then gives discounts or rebates to the poor. But it's still just a payout to the Insurance industry.


We basically agree.
I think ACA is better than nothing but would scrap it in a second for actual socialized medicine.

It's just funny watching the GOPers casually dismiss the massive mistakes by the GOP in the very recent past as 'just how it goes' or something 'we shouldn't worry about because hey time will tell'

Forgetting apparently that we can all see and hear them crying daily about every detail of Obama's presidency. No 'hey that's America for ya' or 'we should withhold our judgement and let this play out for a few decades.'
 
2013-03-06 01:52:08 PM  

Danger Mouse: We still have enough money for Fartbongo to go golfing though, right?


whew!


Did you get mad when Bush went golfing?

What about when Bush started a war based on false information that killed hundreds of thousands and wasted billions?
 
2013-03-06 01:52:24 PM  

m00: I remember when Dick Cheney said "deficits don't matter." I remember arguing with conservatives on message boards who INSISTED that deficits don't matter, and any criticism of Bush was tantamount to treason. And any criticism of the military was aiding the enemy.

It is pretty funny that Republicans have conveniently forgotten 2001-2008


They 'forget' every Republican administration.  At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.
 
2013-03-06 01:58:26 PM  

LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration.  At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.


onmilwaukee.com

"You farked up. You trusted us."
 
2013-03-06 02:03:20 PM  

Sybarite: But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.

[www.tedellis.net image 719x520]


Bryan Suits, who hosts a radio show on KFI640 (which is also available as a podcast to download) was in both Gulf Wars.  He talks a lot about the work they did in Iraq, where basically the government policy was to bribe the shiat out of the local warlords.  He'd go to a Warlord, and basically say "We need you to quit shooting up on convoys.  We will give you two choices, either we'll bring in a shiatload of firepower and blow the crap out of everything you own, or we'll give you a few million US dollars".  You can guess how that worked.  Warlord takes the money, IN CASH, lays off shooting US convoys for a while.  Every few months they start shooting up convoys again, and when the US asks why they're shooting at conoys the warlord says "Sorry, but it is beyond my control.  I don't have enough money to pay all these hungry people, and they're acting on their own.  Perhaps you could give me a few million dollars so I can pay them so they can afford to buy their own food so they won't attack the convoys."  And the US government gives them the money.
 
2013-03-06 02:06:37 PM  

DamnYankees: If we've learned anything from the past few years, it's that the years 2001 to 2009 didn't happen. Everyone was on vacation.


Yup, they were playing in the sandbox.
 
2013-03-06 02:20:49 PM  
It made a lot of unqualified republicans very wealthy.  It wouldn't call it wasted.
 
m00
2013-03-06 02:23:53 PM  

LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration. At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.


Well, if it's any consolation all of those democrats/liberals that were highly critical of erosion of civil liberties and massive deficit spending and foreign adventurism under Bush, are nowhere to be found under Obama.
 
2013-03-06 02:27:41 PM  

Cletus C.: It's what our country does. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Stupid, costly wars.

Yes, the Iraq war was particularly moronic. But those other two had their share of pointlessness. Korea and Vietnam were meat grinders, chewing up young American lives. Iraq fatalities paled by comparison, at least.

But all bad wars. Bush and his minions own that Iraq mess. Now the question is where we'll wage our next stupid war. Iran? North Korea?

What is it with this country?


Baby Boomers still looking for justification of might makes right. The Boomers lost Korea and they lost Vietnam. The people who brought you Korea and Vietnam were still trying to use the theory of military domination to setup friendly governments. It is sad they lost Iraq and Afghanistan using this outdated and dis-proven theory of military domination.

They desperately needed these two wars to work as intended, because other wise why do we need a 700+ billion dollar military, if we can't even conquer and control two backward third world shiat holes?  That is the real lesson of Iraq and Afghanistan, we don't need his much military to dominate the world.
 
2013-03-06 02:31:41 PM  

GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it


We wouldn't have gone. There's no reason to spend the money to turn it into a glass parking lot, if there's no reason to be there initially. I keep explaining to my conservative co-workers (We're in defense) that had we not put a giant, expensive military in everyone's backyard in the first place, nobody would've gotten the idea to blow up our buildings. The reaction? Total befuddlement.
 
2013-03-06 02:37:19 PM  

m00: LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration. At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.

Well, if it's any consolation all of those democrats/liberals that were highly critical of erosion of civil liberties and massive deficit spending and foreign adventurism under Bush, are nowhere to be found under Obama.


While Obama's record on civil liberties is fairly spotty, he pales in comparison to the Shrub. Under Obama, the rate of deficit spending is plummeting; the deficit doesn't get reset when a new President takes office. As for 'foreign adventurism', Obama hasn't invaded any countries; he assisted (as the United States was obligated to do, due to their treaties) NATO and the UN in Libya, and participates in the same minor actions that every President does.

Oh, and all that aside...I STILL see people protesting Obama from the left. They just don't get as much attention because the American media doesn't give two farks about actual liberals.
 
2013-03-06 02:49:44 PM  
i.imgur.com

VOTE BUSH 2000.

George Bush is a true example of a COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE. He will bring honor and decency back to the White House.

We agree that $1.25/gallon is a ludicrously high amount. George Bush is a former Oil Man with many close ties to arab oil interests. He'll be able to talk with the middle east and truly be the Inside Man to ease the stress on struggling motorists.

America is in no way the world's police, and has no business going abroad sacrificing young american lives telling other countries how they should be doing things. George Bush will put America first, and focus on true Homeland Security by dedicating his administration to a mighty MISSILE SHIELD.

We cannot have the proof... a smoking gun... to come in the form of a mushroom cloud. By building a Missile Shield, American families will be prototected from any and all harm from rogue nations. George Bush will combat the true dangers of the 21st century, all the while helping families grow at home.

By encouraging deregulation in the private healthcare and banking industry, free market forces will ensure competition drives prices down, making private healthcare and the American dream of home ownership affordable to all. It is unamerican to inject the Government in other people's business, and it is a core Republican belief that Government should be so small as to be able to drown it in your bathtub. Privacy, above all, is the God-given right of Americans.

Vote Compassionate Conservatism.
Vote fiscal responsibility.
Vote small Government.
Vote GOP.
 
2013-03-06 02:58:02 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: we don't need his much military to dominate the world.


People still fighting with sticks and arrows are missing the next generation of war and will be left behind.
 
2013-03-06 02:58:27 PM  

BMulligan: JesusJuice: BMulligan: JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.

What a load of ignorant horseshiat.

How so?

Prior to the first Gulf War, what was the state of Iraq's middle class? Its civil institutions? Its infrastructure? Its educational facilities?

Do a little research on these questions, educate yourself, then come back here and we can have a reasonable, intelligent discussion about the Ba'athists failure to extend the benefits of Iraqi cultural advancement to the mostly rural Shi'ite population - a serious miscalculation, to be sure, which however in no way implies a general lack of cultural advancement in pre-war Iraq.


Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states.  The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture.  It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end.  It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans.  It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal.  Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric.  They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally.  Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.
 
m00
2013-03-06 03:01:12 PM  

LordJiro: While Obama's record on civil liberties is fairly spotty, he pales in comparison to the Shrub.


No he doesn't. We have all the stuff Bush signed, plus more that Obama added. Under Obama we have fewer civil liberties than under Bush. If you want to dispute this, please find for me a single erosion of civil liberties which occurred under Bush that Obama has reversed or repealed

Under Obama, the rate of deficit spending is plummeting

It's not anywhere close to plummeting. There was a measure recently to return spending to the 2007 levels, and it was laughed at.

\As for 'foreign adventurism', Obama hasn't invaded any countries; he assisted (as the United States was obligated to do, due to their treaties) NATO and the UN in Libya, and participates in the same minor actions that every President does.

This just isn't true. We use the term "obligation" to mean "doing what we want." There are thousands of treaties we don't do shiat about. Occasionally we do something we want to for other reasons and say "oh, but we had no choice! we were obligated!" Note this is exactly what bush did when he invaded Iraq -- we were "obligated" because Saddam kicked out the inspectors.
 
2013-03-06 03:06:03 PM  

m00: LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration. At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.

Well, if it's any consolation all of those democrats/liberals that were highly critical of erosion of civil liberties and massive deficit spending and foreign adventurism under Bush, are nowhere to be found under Obama.


Horsefeathers. They are still right there fighting the good fight. The just switched sides is all.
 
2013-03-06 03:09:50 PM  
If I ever get elected to some sort of public office, I'm gonna introduce a bill that says if you vote on war/send in the troops/whatever you have to be on the front lines leading them. Being in the bridge of an Aircraft Carrier 200 miles away doesn't count, you need to be on the front lines like an enlisted fark.
 
2013-03-06 03:11:13 PM  

JesusJuice: Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states.  The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture.  It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end.  It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans.  It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal.  Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric.  They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally.  Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.


I'm currently reading a history of the United States from 1834 through 1876. Your analysis sounds exactly like the sort of nonsense that was in vogue at the time. It's based on an unearned sense of exceptionalism, an  a priori belief that western civilization is the standard by which others should be judged and the goal toward which they should aspire, and a healthy dollop of prejudice. It is also characterized by severe myopia regarding your own culture. For instance, to describe a society as "tribal" implies that Western culture is not - which is plainly absurd. Likewise your criticism of Iraqi culture as one which "accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end" - for an American to criticize any other culture on that basis is laughable.

In short, you can dress up your bigotry however you'd like but the fact remains that it says much, much more about you than it does about the people you're denigratng.
 
2013-03-06 03:11:54 PM  

JesusJuice: For gods sakes these people are farking tribal. Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric. They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally. Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.



there's something very wrong with that whole paragraph.

these people are savage backwards & barbaric! so let's treat the savagely backwards & barbarically!
 
2013-03-06 03:12:43 PM  

SixPaperJoint: Everyone here knows you are a liar and an imbecile, god knows why you keep posting, but you finally seem to have a point.

The "left" cares about jobs. Though the easily graspable nuances of Keynesian Economics are hopelessly lost on you, they are not on all.

The left and, sadly by extension, the Democrats care about jobs and economic recovery.

The sequester does neither for those thanks for admitting that.

Oh yeah,,,,,Plonk


If the only thing that gets out of a recession is Keynesian stimulus spending on things like MIC jobs, the moment you cut that spending - ceteris paribus of course - you'll end up right back in that recession.
 
2013-03-06 03:16:06 PM  

MattStafford: SixPaperJoint: Everyone here knows you are a liar and an imbecile, god knows why you keep posting, but you finally seem to have a point.

The "left" cares about jobs. Though the easily graspable nuances of Keynesian Economics are hopelessly lost on you, they are not on all.

The left and, sadly by extension, the Democrats care about jobs and economic recovery.

The sequester does neither for those thanks for admitting that.

Oh yeah,,,,,Plonk

If the only thing that gets out of a recession is Keynesian stimulus spending on things like MIC jobs, the moment you cut that spending - ceteris paribus of course - you'll end up right back in that recession.


Where'd you get that economics degree from again? Hollywood Upstairs Economics College?
 
2013-03-06 03:19:09 PM  

JesusJuice: Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states. The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture. It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end. It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans. It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal. Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric. They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally. Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.


We have them too. Except our extremists wear colonial garb and ride mobility scooters. And silly costuming is sort of progress.
 
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