If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(WPRI Rhode Island)   As we try to find $85 billion in cuts to meet the "sequester", here's a timely report that concludes that the $60 billion we spent re-constructing Iraq, was basically all wasted, to say nothing of the $767 billion we spent DE-constructing it   (wpri.com) divider line 141
    More: Sad, Iraq, President of Iraq, Deputy Secretary of State, Maliki, Iraqi security forces, Sunni Muslims, infighting, gas pipelines  
•       •       •

1446 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Mar 2013 at 11:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



141 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-03-06 10:59:38 AM  
If we've learned anything from the past few years, it's that the years 2001 to 2009 didn't happen. Everyone was on vacation.
 
2013-03-06 11:07:51 AM  
Republicans are fiscal conservatives.
 
2013-03-06 11:10:53 AM  
I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it
 
2013-03-06 11:25:21 AM  
Freedom isn't free.
 
2013-03-06 11:32:52 AM  
But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.

www.tedellis.net
 
2013-03-06 11:41:47 AM  
Way to go , America. Job well done. Thumb's up!

/the important thing to remember - certain people got filthy rich
 
2013-03-06 11:54:27 AM  
The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.
 
2013-03-06 11:55:17 AM  
It's a nice scam the rightists have going.
 
2013-03-06 11:55:35 AM  
I am pretty sure we had all agreed not to talk about this.
 
2013-03-06 11:55:44 AM  
Remember, guys, Democrats are big spenders and Republicans are fiscally responsible.
 
2013-03-06 11:57:16 AM  
It' s actually quite simple:

Stop electing social conservatives to office.   There is no reason we need another Bush administration in the White House, or for that matter, the Republican party to dominate in Congress.
 
2013-03-06 11:58:23 AM  
www.steroid.com
 
2013-03-06 11:59:38 AM  

Sybarite: But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.

[www.tedellis.net image 719x520]


Wow, you could literally dump all that cash into a pool and go for a swim in it.  Jesus that's quite a bit of money.
 
2013-03-06 12:02:37 PM  
But hey a select few made a buttload of cash from it so it's all good! That's how Freedom works baby!  USA!USA!USA!

/amidoingitright?
 
2013-03-06 12:02:59 PM  
The GOP wanted the war.......it's about time they pony up and pay for it.
 
2013-03-06 12:05:12 PM  
Don't forget Benghazi!
 
2013-03-06 12:05:22 PM  
"There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.
 
2013-03-06 12:06:12 PM  
A few billion here, a few billion there, sooner or later you're talking about real money.
 
2013-03-06 12:07:35 PM  
We could have won if it weren't for the stinkin' libs.
 
2013-03-06 12:07:42 PM  

CygnusDarius: [www.steroid.com image 350x254]


Steroid users need not apply because they'll be welcome regardless.
 
2013-03-06 12:07:59 PM  
Well I'm glad they cut my parents social security and veterans benefits to help pay for this. I feel safer already
 
2013-03-06 12:08:58 PM  

GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it


No, if there wasn't oil in the Middle East, we'd have ignored it almost completely by now. See: Africa.
 
2013-03-06 12:10:00 PM  
We have met the enemy, and he is us.
 
2013-03-06 12:10:59 PM  
I can't imagine after the colossal waste of money that was Iraq anyone can in good faith trust the Republican party again.

That was a shiat ton of money.  Makes all the arguments over NPR and Planned Parenthood look like peanuts.

Thinking about it just gives me a sad.  What a waste of money and life.
 
2013-03-06 12:11:07 PM  
It's what our country does. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Stupid, costly wars.

Yes, the Iraq war was particularly moronic. But those other two had their share of pointlessness. Korea and Vietnam were meat grinders, chewing up young American lives. Iraq fatalities paled by comparison, at least.

But all bad wars. Bush and his minions own that Iraq mess. Now the question is where we'll wage our next stupid war. Iran? North Korea?

What is it with this country?
 
2013-03-06 12:11:58 PM  
What's surprising about this?  Congress is so worried about spending and $85 billion in cuts when they appropriated $82 billion for another year of war in Afghanistan.
 
2013-03-06 12:13:50 PM  

LordJiro: GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it

No, if there wasn't oil in the Middle East, we'd have ignored it almost completely by now. See: Africa.


Actually, yeah, that makes way more sense.
 
2013-03-06 12:14:00 PM  

Ivo Shandor: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.


My God, how f*cking retarded do you have to be to go along with that asinine bit of "logic"?

"Yeah, we can go in and blow all the sh*t up we want, Iraq has a few spare billions lying around just waiting to rebuild the country".
 
2013-03-06 12:14:09 PM  

Karac: CygnusDarius: [www.steroid.com image 350x254]

Steroid users need not apply because they'll be welcome regardless.


And these guys actually changed their name a couple of time to avoid lawsuits, right?.
 
2013-03-06 12:16:46 PM  

GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it


It's not about oil.  If it was about oil, we would have, um, taken it.

It's about one guy wanting to kill somebody who threatened his daddy.  That's it.
 
2013-03-06 12:17:25 PM  
Well, duh. Warfare is basically very large-scale armed robbery.

In this case, we assembled a crack team of con men, safecrackers, drivers, and professional crooks, but instead of robbing three Vegas casinos, we knocked over a 7-11 that had already made its deposit for the day.
 
2013-03-06 12:17:39 PM  
Money spent killing non-Caucasians is always money well spent, RIGHT REPUBLICANS???????????????????????????????
 
2013-03-06 12:18:14 PM  

Sybarite: But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.

[www.tedellis.net image 719x520]


to this day i'm amazed folks 1) thought this was a good idea 2) didn't go to jail for it.

really we farked up so badly there but this is the poster child for our worst mistakes.
 
2013-03-06 12:19:04 PM  

FuturePastNow: Well, duh. Warfare is basically very large-scale armed robbery.

In this case, we assembled a crack team of con men, safecrackers, drivers, and professional crooks, but instead of robbing three Vegas casinos, we knocked over a 7-11 that had already made its deposit for the day.


We were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off...
 
2013-03-06 12:20:27 PM  

Ivo Shandor: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.


this dick lick should be forced to live in Iraq outside the green zone for the rest of his pathetic life.
 
2013-03-06 12:22:36 PM  
How much of Iraqs money did we seize and repatriate or use to rebuild Iraq?
 
2013-03-06 12:22:40 PM  
the $60 billion we spent re-constructing Iraq, was basically all wasted, to say nothing of the $767 billion we spent DE-constructing it

The stockholders at Halliburton disagree.
 
2013-03-06 12:23:51 PM  
But even still, MIC cuts are fought by the left because it will result in job losses.
 
2013-03-06 12:25:07 PM  
Remember folks, one ambassador getting killed by a mob ambush is more criminal than the thousands of lives and dollars lost in the Iraq conflict and "reconstruction."
 
2013-03-06 12:26:32 PM  
Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.
 
2013-03-06 12:26:49 PM  

Close2TheEdge: Remember folks, one ambassador getting killed by a mob ambush is more criminal than the thousands of lives and dollars lost in the Iraq conflict and "reconstruction."


Are you kidding? The former is a scandal and a crime. The latter was great and awesome and we should do it again and again and again.
 
2013-03-06 12:28:37 PM  

JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.


I see someone else who's "not ready culturally to enter the modern world" but no one's suggesting you should be blown up.
 
2013-03-06 12:28:41 PM  

JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.


You should be a diplomat.
 
2013-03-06 12:28:56 PM  

runwiz: What's surprising about this?  Congress is so worried about spending and $85 billion in cuts when they appropriated $82 billion for another year of war in Afghanistan.


So just fire everyone in Afghanistan

/they'd probably appreciate it
 
2013-03-06 12:30:04 PM  

Rev.K: Ivo Shandor: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.

My God, how f*cking retarded do you have to be to go along with that asinine bit of "logic"?

"Yeah, we can go in and blow all the sh*t up we want, Iraq has a few spare billions lying around just waiting to rebuild the country".



The good news is this argument isn't convincing anymore, and won't work for a long time. Public opinion polling leading up to the 2012 elections showed that Ds were outpolling Rs on national security. I'm not aware if anyone's dug into this since election day, and yeah, security/foreign affairs wasn't the electorate's biggest worry in November, but still it would be fascinating to learn how many votes Romney lost because he recruited W.'s old national security policy guys...
 
m00
2013-03-06 12:30:44 PM  
I remember when Dick Cheney said "deficits don't matter." I remember arguing with conservatives on message boards who INSISTED that deficits don't matter, and any criticism of Bush was tantamount to treason. And any criticism of the military was aiding the enemy.

It is pretty funny that Republicans have conveniently forgotten 2001-2008
 
2013-03-06 12:31:54 PM  
"Sequester" is a verb. "Sequestration" is the corresponding noun. When one says "the sequester," one sounds like a moran. Not to bust  subby's chops, in particular - I've been hearing this same illiterate nonsense from professional journalists for the past couple of months, and it's infuriating. Why does no one ever embrace Second Amendment solutions for poor English usage?
 
2013-03-06 12:31:55 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Close2TheEdge: Remember folks, one ambassador getting killed by a mob ambush is more criminal than the thousands of lives and dollars lost in the Iraq conflict and "reconstruction."

Are you kidding? The former is a scandal and a crime. The latter was great and awesome and we should do it again and again and again.


Maybe if we stop invading their countries, they'll stop killing our ambassadors...

//Probably not
//Worth a try though
 
2013-03-06 12:35:20 PM  
We still have enough money for Fartbongo to go golfing though, right?


whew!
 
2013-03-06 12:35:29 PM  

Rev.K: My God, how f*cking retarded do you have to be to go along with that asinine bit of "logic"?


That quote comes from his testimony to the US Congress at the time, so there's your answer.
 
2013-03-06 12:39:16 PM  

JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.


What a load of ignorant horseshiat.
 
2013-03-06 12:40:15 PM  

Cletus C.: It's what our country does. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Stupid, costly wars.

Yes, the Iraq war was particularly moronic. But those other two had their share of pointlessness. Korea and Vietnam were meat grinders, chewing up young American lives. Iraq fatalities paled by comparison, at least.

But all bad wars. Bush and his minions own that Iraq mess. Now the question is where we'll wage our next stupid war. Iran? North Korea?

What is it with this country?


Integrated world capitalism?
 
2013-03-06 12:41:21 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-06 12:47:52 PM  
If you support the Republicans, you're either evil or ignorant. And that is the truth.
 
2013-03-06 12:51:15 PM  
But we were told that the Iraq war would pay for itself because of oil.
 
2013-03-06 12:54:14 PM  

olderbudnoweiser: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 358x358]


I'll put that back together for a meager $6 billion.
 
2013-03-06 12:56:15 PM  
Hey that's just some stuff that happened. Things happen and in this case it wasn't perfect but it's silly to worry about things you can't change.

Besides BENGHAZI!!! and 0bama goes golfing and where did these huge bills for some old forgotten wars come from anyway? Sounds like 0bammy is really farkin up. We really need to reduce all this spending and get these jobless moochers off the government teet.
 
2013-03-06 12:57:34 PM  

DamnYankees: If we've learned anything from the past few years, it's that the years 2001 to 2009 didn't happen. Everyone was on vacation.


Iraq invited us.  Punch was served!

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-03-06 12:59:49 PM  
America lost its empire in the ME. You just haven't figured that out yet.
 
2013-03-06 01:03:51 PM  

phaseolus: Rev.K: Ivo Shandor: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.

My God, how f*cking retarded do you have to be to go along with that asinine bit of "logic"?

"Yeah, we can go in and blow all the sh*t up we want, Iraq has a few spare billions lying around just waiting to rebuild the country".


The good news is this argument isn't convincing anymore, and won't work for a long time. Public opinion polling leading up to the 2012 elections showed that Ds were outpolling Rs on national security. I'm not aware if anyone's dug into this since election day, and yeah, security/foreign affairs wasn't the electorate's biggest worry in November, but still it would be fascinating to learn how many votes Romney lost because he recruited W.'s old national security policy guys...


I would love to share your optimism in this regard.  I'm sure after Vietnam many people said the exact same thing.  "The US will never do this again".  Now we have the generation that grew up with Vietnam in power, and they continue to try to do it.

I give it another 5 - 10 years tops before we find ourselves in another conflict somewhere so we can spend American lives on some stupid adventure.
 
2013-03-06 01:07:32 PM  
Someone needs a fair and speedy trial and a swift execution.
 
2013-03-06 01:10:19 PM  
**does the math**

$1,920 dollars per Iraqi.

I'm sure the average Iraqi would be better off with a check, but then all of Cheney's cronies from Halliburton wouldn't get those sweet no-bid reconstruction contracts.
 
2013-03-06 01:11:49 PM  
Do you know how much it costs to bring freedom people, really? I mean it comes in small parcels weighing 500lbs for starters, do you realize the shipping costs involved with that?
 
2013-03-06 01:11:50 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.


Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.
 
2013-03-06 01:18:17 PM  

pxsteel: Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.


wut
 
2013-03-06 01:23:07 PM  

pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.


Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.
 
m00
2013-03-06 01:26:54 PM  

unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.


yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.
 
2013-03-06 01:27:56 PM  

unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.


Killing people en masse: Well, let's do it and hope it turns out okay.

Proven effective domestic policy to alleviate poverty: NO THERE'S A SMALL POSSIBILITY THAT SOMEONE SOMEWHERE MIGHT GET SOMETHING THEY DON'T DESERVE AND WE CAN'T RISK THAT.
 
2013-03-06 01:28:08 PM  

BMulligan: JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.

What a load of ignorant horseshiat.


How so?
 
2013-03-06 01:31:52 PM  

Famous Thamas: phaseolus: Rev.K: Ivo Shandor: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."  -- Paul Wolfowitz, March 2003.

My God, how f*cking retarded do you have to be to go along with that asinine bit of "logic"?

"Yeah, we can go in and blow all the sh*t up we want, Iraq has a few spare billions lying around just waiting to rebuild the country".


The good news is this argument isn't convincing anymore, and won't work for a long time. Public opinion polling leading up to the 2012 elections showed that Ds were outpolling Rs on national security. I'm not aware if anyone's dug into this since election day, and yeah, security/foreign affairs wasn't the electorate's biggest worry in November, but still it would be fascinating to learn how many votes Romney lost because he recruited W.'s old national security policy guys...

I would love to share your optimism in this regard.  I'm sure after Vietnam many people said the exact same thing.  "The US will never do this again".  Now we have the generation that grew up with Vietnam in power, and they continue to try to do it.

I give it another 5 - 10 years tops before we find ourselves in another conflict somewhere so we can spend American lives on some stupid adventure.


You don't sound excited about our solemn commitment to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.
 
2013-03-06 01:31:56 PM  

m00: unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.

yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.


And it mandates that everyone must buy ins coverage. People who can't afford it get assistance.

/single payer is what we actually need though.
 
2013-03-06 01:36:26 PM  

pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.


Conflating secular Baathist Saddam with Al-Qaeda, failing to mention the terrorist training camp were in Kurdish territory and training anti-Saddam insurgents.  Magnificent. 10/10
 
2013-03-06 01:37:02 PM  

JesusJuice: BMulligan: JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.

What a load of ignorant horseshiat.

How so?


Prior to the first Gulf War, what was the state of Iraq's middle class? Its civil institutions? Its infrastructure? Its educational facilities?

Do a little research on these questions, educate yourself, then come back here and we can have a reasonable, intelligent discussion about the Ba'athists failure to extend the benefits of Iraqi cultural advancement to the mostly rural Shi'ite population - a serious miscalculation, to be sure, which however in no way implies a general lack of cultural advancement in pre-war Iraq.
 
m00
2013-03-06 01:38:24 PM  

unexplained bacon: m00: unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.

yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.

And it mandates that everyone must buy ins coverage. People who can't afford it get assistance.

/single payer is what we actually need though.


I think if we want socialized medicine, we should have socialized medicine. but Obamacare isn't socialized medicine, it merely legislates that everyone must purchase insurance from a private provider but then gives discounts or rebates to the poor. But it's still just a payout to the Insurance industry.
 
2013-03-06 01:40:59 PM  

GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it


Yes because the price of gas has done nothing but plummet since 2003.

/the reason we're in the mid east is a lot more insidious than oil
 
2013-03-06 01:43:24 PM  

MattStafford: But even still, MIC cuts are fought by the left because it will result in job losses.


Everyone here knows you are a liar and an imbecile, god knows why you keep posting, but you finally seem to have a point.

The "left" cares about jobs. Though the easily graspable nuances of Keynesian Economics are hopelessly lost on you, they are not on all.

The left and, sadly by extension, the Democrats care about jobs and economic recovery.

The sequester does neither for those thanks for admitting that.

Oh yeah,,,,,Plonk
 
2013-03-06 01:43:45 PM  
Hey, that was back when Reagan had proved deficits don't matter.*

*Offer void during Democratic administrations. Other terms and conditions may apply, see Rush Limbaugh for details.
 
2013-03-06 01:44:52 PM  

LordJiro: GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it

No, if there wasn't oil in the Middle East, we'd have ignored it almost completely by now. See: Africa.


Came here to say this. There are lots of brown people we haven't even TRIED to liberate, because their economies are based on sticks and mud.
 
2013-03-06 01:46:04 PM  

m00: unexplained bacon: m00: unexplained bacon: pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.

Right
Why is everyone getting so tense man?
Do like our republican buddies and be chill dude.

GOPers have a knack for letting worries about massive fark ups just roll right off them. Hey man time will tell just wait and see maaaann.

They only freak the fark out if you do something crazy like attempt to give poor people healthcare coverage or some dumb shiat.

yeah but thats not what Obamacare is. Obamacare was the Republican alternative to the medicaid expansion under clinton.

And it mandates that everyone must buy ins coverage. People who can't afford it get assistance.

/single payer is what we actually need though.

I think if we want socialized medicine, we should have socialized medicine. but Obamacare isn't socialized medicine, it merely legislates that everyone must purchase insurance from a private provider but then gives discounts or rebates to the poor. But it's still just a payout to the Insurance industry.


We basically agree.
I think ACA is better than nothing but would scrap it in a second for actual socialized medicine.

It's just funny watching the GOPers casually dismiss the massive mistakes by the GOP in the very recent past as 'just how it goes' or something 'we shouldn't worry about because hey time will tell'

Forgetting apparently that we can all see and hear them crying daily about every detail of Obama's presidency. No 'hey that's America for ya' or 'we should withhold our judgement and let this play out for a few decades.'
 
2013-03-06 01:52:08 PM  

Danger Mouse: We still have enough money for Fartbongo to go golfing though, right?


whew!


Did you get mad when Bush went golfing?

What about when Bush started a war based on false information that killed hundreds of thousands and wasted billions?
 
2013-03-06 01:52:24 PM  

m00: I remember when Dick Cheney said "deficits don't matter." I remember arguing with conservatives on message boards who INSISTED that deficits don't matter, and any criticism of Bush was tantamount to treason. And any criticism of the military was aiding the enemy.

It is pretty funny that Republicans have conveniently forgotten 2001-2008


They 'forget' every Republican administration.  At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.
 
2013-03-06 01:58:26 PM  

LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration.  At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.


onmilwaukee.com

"You farked up. You trusted us."
 
2013-03-06 02:03:20 PM  

Sybarite: But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.

[www.tedellis.net image 719x520]


Bryan Suits, who hosts a radio show on KFI640 (which is also available as a podcast to download) was in both Gulf Wars.  He talks a lot about the work they did in Iraq, where basically the government policy was to bribe the shiat out of the local warlords.  He'd go to a Warlord, and basically say "We need you to quit shooting up on convoys.  We will give you two choices, either we'll bring in a shiatload of firepower and blow the crap out of everything you own, or we'll give you a few million US dollars".  You can guess how that worked.  Warlord takes the money, IN CASH, lays off shooting US convoys for a while.  Every few months they start shooting up convoys again, and when the US asks why they're shooting at conoys the warlord says "Sorry, but it is beyond my control.  I don't have enough money to pay all these hungry people, and they're acting on their own.  Perhaps you could give me a few million dollars so I can pay them so they can afford to buy their own food so they won't attack the convoys."  And the US government gives them the money.
 
2013-03-06 02:06:37 PM  

DamnYankees: If we've learned anything from the past few years, it's that the years 2001 to 2009 didn't happen. Everyone was on vacation.


Yup, they were playing in the sandbox.
 
2013-03-06 02:20:49 PM  
It made a lot of unqualified republicans very wealthy.  It wouldn't call it wasted.
 
m00
2013-03-06 02:23:53 PM  

LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration. At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.


Well, if it's any consolation all of those democrats/liberals that were highly critical of erosion of civil liberties and massive deficit spending and foreign adventurism under Bush, are nowhere to be found under Obama.
 
2013-03-06 02:27:41 PM  

Cletus C.: It's what our country does. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Stupid, costly wars.

Yes, the Iraq war was particularly moronic. But those other two had their share of pointlessness. Korea and Vietnam were meat grinders, chewing up young American lives. Iraq fatalities paled by comparison, at least.

But all bad wars. Bush and his minions own that Iraq mess. Now the question is where we'll wage our next stupid war. Iran? North Korea?

What is it with this country?


Baby Boomers still looking for justification of might makes right. The Boomers lost Korea and they lost Vietnam. The people who brought you Korea and Vietnam were still trying to use the theory of military domination to setup friendly governments. It is sad they lost Iraq and Afghanistan using this outdated and dis-proven theory of military domination.

They desperately needed these two wars to work as intended, because other wise why do we need a 700+ billion dollar military, if we can't even conquer and control two backward third world shiat holes?  That is the real lesson of Iraq and Afghanistan, we don't need his much military to dominate the world.
 
2013-03-06 02:31:41 PM  

GiantRex: I love seeing numbers in reports like this one, because it helps quantify the reasoning behind asking a very important question: "Why did we do this?"

/if there wasn't oil in the middle east, we would have turned it into a glass parking lot already, and you know it


We wouldn't have gone. There's no reason to spend the money to turn it into a glass parking lot, if there's no reason to be there initially. I keep explaining to my conservative co-workers (We're in defense) that had we not put a giant, expensive military in everyone's backyard in the first place, nobody would've gotten the idea to blow up our buildings. The reaction? Total befuddlement.
 
2013-03-06 02:37:19 PM  

m00: LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration. At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.

Well, if it's any consolation all of those democrats/liberals that were highly critical of erosion of civil liberties and massive deficit spending and foreign adventurism under Bush, are nowhere to be found under Obama.


While Obama's record on civil liberties is fairly spotty, he pales in comparison to the Shrub. Under Obama, the rate of deficit spending is plummeting; the deficit doesn't get reset when a new President takes office. As for 'foreign adventurism', Obama hasn't invaded any countries; he assisted (as the United States was obligated to do, due to their treaties) NATO and the UN in Libya, and participates in the same minor actions that every President does.

Oh, and all that aside...I STILL see people protesting Obama from the left. They just don't get as much attention because the American media doesn't give two farks about actual liberals.
 
2013-03-06 02:49:44 PM  
i.imgur.com

VOTE BUSH 2000.

George Bush is a true example of a COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE. He will bring honor and decency back to the White House.

We agree that $1.25/gallon is a ludicrously high amount. George Bush is a former Oil Man with many close ties to arab oil interests. He'll be able to talk with the middle east and truly be the Inside Man to ease the stress on struggling motorists.

America is in no way the world's police, and has no business going abroad sacrificing young american lives telling other countries how they should be doing things. George Bush will put America first, and focus on true Homeland Security by dedicating his administration to a mighty MISSILE SHIELD.

We cannot have the proof... a smoking gun... to come in the form of a mushroom cloud. By building a Missile Shield, American families will be prototected from any and all harm from rogue nations. George Bush will combat the true dangers of the 21st century, all the while helping families grow at home.

By encouraging deregulation in the private healthcare and banking industry, free market forces will ensure competition drives prices down, making private healthcare and the American dream of home ownership affordable to all. It is unamerican to inject the Government in other people's business, and it is a core Republican belief that Government should be so small as to be able to drown it in your bathtub. Privacy, above all, is the God-given right of Americans.

Vote Compassionate Conservatism.
Vote fiscal responsibility.
Vote small Government.
Vote GOP.
 
2013-03-06 02:58:02 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: we don't need his much military to dominate the world.


People still fighting with sticks and arrows are missing the next generation of war and will be left behind.
 
2013-03-06 02:58:27 PM  

BMulligan: JesusJuice: BMulligan: JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.

What a load of ignorant horseshiat.

How so?

Prior to the first Gulf War, what was the state of Iraq's middle class? Its civil institutions? Its infrastructure? Its educational facilities?

Do a little research on these questions, educate yourself, then come back here and we can have a reasonable, intelligent discussion about the Ba'athists failure to extend the benefits of Iraqi cultural advancement to the mostly rural Shi'ite population - a serious miscalculation, to be sure, which however in no way implies a general lack of cultural advancement in pre-war Iraq.


Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states.  The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture.  It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end.  It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans.  It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal.  Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric.  They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally.  Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.
 
m00
2013-03-06 03:01:12 PM  

LordJiro: While Obama's record on civil liberties is fairly spotty, he pales in comparison to the Shrub.


No he doesn't. We have all the stuff Bush signed, plus more that Obama added. Under Obama we have fewer civil liberties than under Bush. If you want to dispute this, please find for me a single erosion of civil liberties which occurred under Bush that Obama has reversed or repealed

Under Obama, the rate of deficit spending is plummeting

It's not anywhere close to plummeting. There was a measure recently to return spending to the 2007 levels, and it was laughed at.

\As for 'foreign adventurism', Obama hasn't invaded any countries; he assisted (as the United States was obligated to do, due to their treaties) NATO and the UN in Libya, and participates in the same minor actions that every President does.

This just isn't true. We use the term "obligation" to mean "doing what we want." There are thousands of treaties we don't do shiat about. Occasionally we do something we want to for other reasons and say "oh, but we had no choice! we were obligated!" Note this is exactly what bush did when he invaded Iraq -- we were "obligated" because Saddam kicked out the inspectors.
 
2013-03-06 03:06:03 PM  

m00: LordJiro: They 'forget' every Republican administration. At best (with Reagan), they "remember" a complete fiction. At worst, (GWB), they're thrown down the memory hole. Either way, any problems resulting from said administrations (massive deficits, wars, recessions, etc.) are inevitably blamed on Democrats.

Well, if it's any consolation all of those democrats/liberals that were highly critical of erosion of civil liberties and massive deficit spending and foreign adventurism under Bush, are nowhere to be found under Obama.


Horsefeathers. They are still right there fighting the good fight. The just switched sides is all.
 
2013-03-06 03:09:50 PM  
If I ever get elected to some sort of public office, I'm gonna introduce a bill that says if you vote on war/send in the troops/whatever you have to be on the front lines leading them. Being in the bridge of an Aircraft Carrier 200 miles away doesn't count, you need to be on the front lines like an enlisted fark.
 
2013-03-06 03:11:13 PM  

JesusJuice: Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states.  The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture.  It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end.  It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans.  It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal.  Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric.  They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally.  Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.


I'm currently reading a history of the United States from 1834 through 1876. Your analysis sounds exactly like the sort of nonsense that was in vogue at the time. It's based on an unearned sense of exceptionalism, an  a priori belief that western civilization is the standard by which others should be judged and the goal toward which they should aspire, and a healthy dollop of prejudice. It is also characterized by severe myopia regarding your own culture. For instance, to describe a society as "tribal" implies that Western culture is not - which is plainly absurd. Likewise your criticism of Iraqi culture as one which "accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end" - for an American to criticize any other culture on that basis is laughable.

In short, you can dress up your bigotry however you'd like but the fact remains that it says much, much more about you than it does about the people you're denigratng.
 
2013-03-06 03:11:54 PM  

JesusJuice: For gods sakes these people are farking tribal. Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric. They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally. Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.



there's something very wrong with that whole paragraph.

these people are savage backwards & barbaric! so let's treat the savagely backwards & barbarically!
 
2013-03-06 03:12:43 PM  

SixPaperJoint: Everyone here knows you are a liar and an imbecile, god knows why you keep posting, but you finally seem to have a point.

The "left" cares about jobs. Though the easily graspable nuances of Keynesian Economics are hopelessly lost on you, they are not on all.

The left and, sadly by extension, the Democrats care about jobs and economic recovery.

The sequester does neither for those thanks for admitting that.

Oh yeah,,,,,Plonk


If the only thing that gets out of a recession is Keynesian stimulus spending on things like MIC jobs, the moment you cut that spending - ceteris paribus of course - you'll end up right back in that recession.
 
2013-03-06 03:16:06 PM  

MattStafford: SixPaperJoint: Everyone here knows you are a liar and an imbecile, god knows why you keep posting, but you finally seem to have a point.

The "left" cares about jobs. Though the easily graspable nuances of Keynesian Economics are hopelessly lost on you, they are not on all.

The left and, sadly by extension, the Democrats care about jobs and economic recovery.

The sequester does neither for those thanks for admitting that.

Oh yeah,,,,,Plonk

If the only thing that gets out of a recession is Keynesian stimulus spending on things like MIC jobs, the moment you cut that spending - ceteris paribus of course - you'll end up right back in that recession.


Where'd you get that economics degree from again? Hollywood Upstairs Economics College?
 
2013-03-06 03:19:09 PM  

JesusJuice: Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states. The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture. It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end. It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans. It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal. Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric. They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally. Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.


We have them too. Except our extremists wear colonial garb and ride mobility scooters. And silly costuming is sort of progress.
 
2013-03-06 03:21:53 PM  

BMulligan: JesusJuice: Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states.  The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture.  It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end.  It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans.  It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal.  Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric.  They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally.  Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.

I'm currently reading a history of the United States from 1834 through 1876. Your analysis sounds exactly like the sort of nonsense that was in vogue at the time. It's based on an unearned sense of exceptionalism, an  a priori belief that western civilization is the standard by which others should be judged and the goal toward which they should aspire, and a healthy dollop of prejudice. It is also characterized by severe myopia regarding your own culture. For instance, to describe a society as "tribal" implies that Western culture is not - which is plainly absurd. Likewise your criticism of Iraqi culture as one which "accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end" - for an American to criticize any other culture on that basis is laughable.

In short, you can dress up your bigotry however you'd like but the fact remains that it says much, much more about you than it does about the people you're denigratng.


Nation states are tribalism writ large.

It'd be nice if all of humanity could consider itself one tribe, but we'd need some sort of extraterrestrial threat (asteroid, alien, whatever) or otherwise massive non-human threat to humanity for that to happen, and even then, we'd have divisions between pro-threat and anti-threat groups.
 
2013-03-06 03:25:35 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Where'd you get that economics degree from again? Hollywood Upstairs Economics College?


If there are unemployed people, and I borrow money to have them dig ditches build bombs/fight overseas/whatever, I didn't fix their problem, did I? Once I can't borrow anymore, they go back to being unemployed.  That is, of course, unless there is demand for the skills that they have - and if that is the case, why weren't they employed there in the first place?
 
2013-03-06 03:39:15 PM  

JesusJuice: BMulligan: JesusJuice: BMulligan: JesusJuice: Trying to "reconstruct" Iraq was always a waste of time, they're not ready culturally to enter the modern world. It would make more sense to deconstruct them back to thethe bronze ageage so their technological sophistication matches their cultural sophistication.

What a load of ignorant horseshiat.

How so?

Prior to the first Gulf War, what was the state of Iraq's middle class? Its civil institutions? Its infrastructure? Its educational facilities?

Do a little research on these questions, educate yourself, then come back here and we can have a reasonable, intelligent discussion about the Ba'athists failure to extend the benefits of Iraqi cultural advancement to the mostly rural Shi'ite population - a serious miscalculation, to be sure, which however in no way implies a general lack of cultural advancement in pre-war Iraq.

Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states.  The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture.  It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end.  It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans.  It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal.  Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric.  They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally.  Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.


You know, that describes Tea Partiers, too
 
2013-03-06 03:42:29 PM  
The MIC MUST be fed. Move along citizen.
 
2013-03-06 03:44:47 PM  

MattStafford: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Where'd you get that economics degree from again? Hollywood Upstairs Economics College?

If there are unemployed people, and I borrow money to have them dig ditches build bombs/fight overseas/whatever, I didn't fix their problem, did I? Once I can't borrow anymore, they go back to being unemployed.  That is, of course, unless there is demand for the skills that they have - and if that is the case, why weren't they employed there in the first place?


FDR had them build projects like the Outer Banks in North Carolina which became the backbone of the NC tourist industry creating 1000's of perpetual jobs. There are actual projects here at home that can create economic opportunity. War is not one of them.
 
2013-03-06 03:47:07 PM  

MattStafford: If there are unemployed people, and I borrow money to have them dig ditches build bombs/fight overseas/whatever, I didn't fix their problem, did I? Once I can't borrow anymore, they go back to being unemployed. That is, of course, unless there is demand for the skills that they have - and if that is the case, why weren't they employed there in the first place?


Dude.

Seriously.

Shut the fark up.
 
2013-03-06 03:50:01 PM  
Probably been said upthread, but apparently GOPs idea of governing comes down to we spend, it makes no difference, they spend, the sky is falling.  Chicken littles, they should eabod or diaf, while they let our country make progress.  Vote them out
 
2013-03-06 03:54:43 PM  

Ishkur: MattStafford: If there are unemployed people, and I borrow money to have them dig ditches build bombs/fight overseas/whatever, I didn't fix their problem, did I? Once I can't borrow anymore, they go back to being unemployed. That is, of course, unless there is demand for the skills that they have - and if that is the case, why weren't they employed there in the first place?

Dude.

Seriously.

Shut the fark up.


Hey now, he argued against me using a metaphor about building giant pyramids in the desert. Give him time and see if coconuts and/or fish trading come up.
 
2013-03-06 04:03:00 PM  

MattStafford: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Where'd you get that economics degree from again? Hollywood Upstairs Economics College?

If there are unemployed people, and I borrow money to have them dig ditches build bombs/fight overseas/whatever, I didn't fix their problem, did I? Once I can't borrow anymore, they go back to being unemployed.  That is, of course, unless there is demand for the skills that they have - and if that is the case, why weren't they employed there in the first place?


You don't actually believe the United States is anywhere close to being at the point where they "can't borrow anymore," do you? Christ, people from around the world are still practically paying the Fed to take their money.

Also, the people that the government employs don't live in a vacuum. The pay checks they get are spent in the private economy, stimulating economic development and demand for more employees across multiple industries, which in turn will give those government employees (who have also developed new skills during their work in the public sector) better options in the private sector.
 
2013-03-06 04:13:02 PM  
img196.imageshack.us
 
2013-03-06 04:32:46 PM  

BMulligan: JesusJuice: Ba'athist secularization was a brief lurch toward cultural enlightenment abruptly undone by the various breeds of backwards extremists endemic to Islamic states.  The reason the ME is so screwed up absolutely is their culture.  It's a culture which accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end.  It's a culture which is so wrapped up in paternalism that they require a strongman dictator to force them to behave like humans.  It's a culture which mutilates and oppresses women and values ignorance above knowledge.

For gods sakes these people are farking tribal.  Any outlook consistent with western enlightenment would identify these people as savage, backwards, and barbaric.  They don't need to be reconstructed, they need to be beaten, psychologically and culturally.  Their entire worldview is completely incompatible with western civilization, and it is this worldview, not their nations infrastructure, which is in need of reconstruction.

I'm currently reading a history of the United States from 1834 through 1876. Your analysis sounds exactly like the sort of nonsense that was in vogue at the time. It's based on an unearned sense of exceptionalism, an  a priori belief that western civilization is the standard by which others should be judged and the goal toward which they should aspire, and a healthy dollop of prejudice. It is also characterized by severe myopia regarding your own culture. For instance, to describe a society as "tribal" implies that Western culture is not - which is plainly absurd. Likewise your criticism of Iraqi culture as one which "accepts violence as an acceptable, even preferable, means to an end" - for an American to criticize any other culture on that basis is laughable.

In short, you can dress up your bigotry however you'd like but the fact remains that it says much, much more about you than it does about the people you're denigratng.


You sound like a cultural relativist, which makes it impossible to engage with you rationally since this is a fundamentally irrational viewpoint.  If someone believes, as I do, that a culture can be considered successful to the degree that it provides it's members with wealth, happiness, health, and security, then western culture is unarguably superior to dominant mideast culture.

You, on the other hand, believe that the effects of a cultures influence on it's citizens is entirely separate from the basic merits of that culture.  This is a willfully ignorant point of view.
 
2013-03-06 04:39:35 PM  

JesusJuice: You sound like a cultural relativist, which makes it impossible to engage with you rationally since this is a fundamentally irrational viewpoint.  If someone believes, as I do, that a culture can be considered successful to the degree that it provides it's members with wealth, happiness, health, and security, then western culture is unarguably superior to dominant mideast culture.


Only if viewed in a vacuum. And what exactly do you define as "dominant mideast culture"? The theocratic Islamic revolutions of the 20th century were all responses to western intrusion and especially to American and European interference when secular leftist governments were coming to power. That was the same "culture". If Jebhe Melli led Iran and a bunch of backwards methhead shiatfarkers from Kentucky led the US - a situation that is gradually coming true - conditions would almost certainly be reversed.
 
2013-03-06 04:57:28 PM  
I'll see your $60 billion for Iraq reconstruction and raise you $100 billion for Afghanistan reconstruction:
http://www.businessinsider.com/100-billion-in-aid-squandered-in-afgh an istan-2013-3

Oh, and we're on track to spend tens of billions more trying to rebuild the place.  Projects that never get finished, corruption that has us getting billed at two or three time the going rate for work by .locals.
 
2013-03-06 05:00:27 PM  

Sybarite: But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.

[www.tedellis.net image 719x520]


And now it seems they are trying to pay for it on the backs of the working class while blaming President Obama.
 
2013-03-06 05:03:11 PM  
JesusJuice: You sound like a cultural relativist, which makes it impossible to engage with you rationally since this is a fundamentally irrational viewpoint.  If someone believes, as I do, that a culture can be considered successful to the degree that it provides it's members with wealth, happiness, health, and security, then western culture is unarguably superior to dominant mideast culture.

Your analysis sounds exactly like the sort of nonsense that was in vogue at the time. It's based on an unearned sense of exceptionalism, an  a priori belief that  western civilization is the standard by which others should be judged and the goal toward which they should aspire, and a healthy dollop of prejudice.


Pretty sure you did not address the point being made, but you sure got defensive when confronted with this country's history of racism and imperialism.
 
2013-03-06 05:07:50 PM  

JesusJuice: You sound like a cultural relativist, which makes it impossible to engage with you rationally since this is a fundamentally irrational viewpoint.


I'd like to see you defend this assertion.
 
2013-03-06 05:16:22 PM  

BMulligan: JesusJuice: You sound like a cultural relativist, which makes it impossible to engage with you rationally since this is a fundamentally irrational viewpoint.

I'd like to see you defend this assertion.


I'd kike to see you stick a pineapple up your ass.
 
2013-03-06 05:21:46 PM  

pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.


The war in Iraq has played a huge role in disrupting terror group operations?

Well, Blackwater did have to change their name, so I guess that's kind of a disruption.
 
2013-03-06 05:25:25 PM  

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: You don't actually believe the United States is anywhere close to being at the point where they "can't borrow anymore," do you? Christ, people from around the world are still practically paying the Fed to take their money.


Precisely. "To be precise, these world investors were saying, we're going to lend the U.S. government $100 for a month, and all we want back is 6/10 of a penny in a month."That's an interest rate of 0.006%.
 
2013-03-06 05:27:03 PM  
JesusJuice:...You sound like a cultural relativist, which makes it impossible ...

Everyone point and laugh!
 
2013-03-06 05:47:54 PM  
It wasn't wasted, it found its way to Israel as it should have,
 
2013-03-06 05:50:22 PM  

FeFiFoFark: The MIC MUST be fed. Move along citizen.


Mic is not the preferred nomenclature. Irish American, please.
 
2013-03-06 06:18:11 PM  

Ishkur: MattStafford: If there are unemployed people, and I borrow money to have them dig ditches build bombs/fight overseas/whatever, I didn't fix their problem, did I? Once I can't borrow anymore, they go back to being unemployed. That is, of course, unless there is demand for the skills that they have - and if that is the case, why weren't they employed there in the first place?

Dude.

Seriously.

Shut the fark up.


"We've got a turd in the punch bowl."
 
2013-03-06 06:22:53 PM  

Sybarite: But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.

[www.tedellis.net image 719x520]


Are you talking about Iraq, or the U.S.?
 
2013-03-06 06:59:26 PM  
Yeah but Obama has been in office for a full term.  When is he going to stop blaming Bush for the Iraq War?

/what worse than a boondoggle?
//would it be a banedoggle?
 
2013-03-06 07:03:17 PM  

InteriorDesignNinja: Yeah but Obama has been in office for a full term.  When is he going to stop blaming Bush for the Iraq War?

/what worse than a boondoggle?
//would it be a banedoggle?


Sarcasm?
 
2013-03-06 07:13:03 PM  

FuturePastNow: Well, duh. Warfare is basically very large-scale armed robbery.

In this case, we assembled a crack team of con men, safecrackers, drivers, and professional crooks, but instead of robbing three Vegas casinos, we knocked over a 7-11 that had already made its deposit for the day.


Not to mention killing a clerk and getting a couple buddies killed in the process, all for a few bucks.
 
2013-03-06 07:57:26 PM  
767 billion... what a joke.   Over time the Iraq war will have costs in the multiple trillions of dollars.  There are a lot of broken people and families we still have to pay for.
 
2013-03-06 08:04:53 PM  

InteriorDesignNinja: Yeah but Obama has been in office for a full term.  When is he going to stop blaming Bush for the Iraq War?

/what worse than a boondoggle?
//would it be a banedoggle?


When Bush didn't start it.
 
2013-03-06 09:12:26 PM  
But if the U.S. didn't use its massive military to invade other countries and waste billions doing it, then some rational people might conclude that it doesn't NEED such a massive investment in the military, and the taxpayer dollars might be used to actually do something that benefits the nation (infrastructure, education, research, etc.etc.)
 
2013-03-06 09:16:25 PM  

Sybarite: But sending pallet loads of cash into an unstable, ethnically divided country with no functioning government seemed like such a good idea at the time.


Seeing that photo just gets me all stabby again.

The Bush Administration was nothing but clownshoes and rainbow wigs as far as the eye could see. They lurched from incompetency to incompetency. We should have a national holiday just to remember how stupid they were, as a warning to future generations.
 
2013-03-06 09:55:01 PM  

JesusJuice: I'd kike to see you stick a pineapple up your ass.


I'd like to see a da go by when ignorant racists didn't reveal the chinks in the armor of their superiority. It should spook me how often it comes up, yet how rarely it gets called out. There's always more lurking under the surface.
What's even worse is how coolie you dismiss your opposition as irrational, as if they're just supposed to roll over and say uncle. To me, it seems like such a waste to slant the argument like that. If your ideas are so superior, they could stand on their own merits, and instead you crow about how operating on your level is ambove your detractors.
Even when your bullshiat is pointed out, you can't leave well enough alone, and with a grin, go and resort to insults.
I'd keep my mouth zipped until I learned how to debate, if I were you.
 
2013-03-06 10:23:02 PM  
I saw a professor making the argument yesterday that USA didn't have the ability to project power without spending massive amounts of money, and thus would rapidly cease being a superpower since it can't afford it anymore.

Close to 800billion USD to topple Saddam Hussein. Hey next time, outsource it to someone more efficient.
 
2013-03-06 10:50:57 PM  
I wonder if conservatives will ever admit W even existed much less blame the cowboy costume for the shiat he did to the country? Oh who am I kidding, the party of personal responsibility is to busy looking for liberal boogie men to blame for everything.
 
2013-03-06 10:56:49 PM  
This crap lowered our moral standing worldwide.  If just fed the "American imperialism!" narriative. Then our banks fist farked the world's economy.  Because, uh, poor people wanted houses or something.

These assholes seem to think that we should run roughshod over the world (even including our own "poors") just because we can.

"New American Century."  Not one where we stand up to tyrants, or one where we commit to fight oppression, but one where the rest of the world see us as the oppressors.

Great.
 
m00
2013-03-06 11:23:15 PM  

spawn73: Close to 800billion USD to topple Saddam Hussein. Hey next time, outsource it to someone more efficient.


Well, our problem is that if an army with an awesome-score of 100 costs X dollars... we're like... "but our army has an awesome-score of 110... FOR ONLY 5X dollars!!"
 
2013-03-06 11:41:32 PM  
But, we had to, and sh*t. We totally kicked ass and made people realize we were perma-hard.

Total f*cking waste. Thanks, mom and dad for Vietnam Part II.
 
2013-03-07 01:08:53 AM  

theorellior: We should have a national holiday just to remember how stupid they were, as a warning to future generations.


May 1 would be a good day for it.
 
2013-03-07 06:39:32 AM  
Sub by, just keep repeating, as loud as you can,

THE SURGE WORKED THE SURGE WORKED THE SURGE WORKED
 
2013-03-07 06:47:01 AM  

pxsteel: Bareefer Obonghit: The only number that you need to remember is 9/11. Never forget.

Only time will tell if the money and blood we spent in Iraq and Afganistan was worth it.  There were plenty of mistakes made but Saddam and his sons were completely insane and there were terrorist training camps in Iraq.  We fought for months to get control of Samarra and Ramadi.  We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.  Al Qaeda did not die with Saddam or OBL, but you have to know that the war in Iraq and Afganistan has played a huge roll in disrupting the operations of the terrorist groups.


Hey look, this guy still believes, he even used the "no more attacks since then" thing. But he forgot to mention yellowcake.
 
2013-03-07 08:43:34 AM  

pxsteel: We have not had another 9/11 type attack in 12 years and let's hope it stays that way.


Lisa Simpson has a rock she wants to sell you.
 
Displayed 141 of 141 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report