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(WTOP)   A look at why so many of the accidents after a major snowstorm seem to involve SUVs with four-wheel drive   (wtop.com) divider line 62
    More: Dumbass, four-wheel-drive  
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17442 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Mar 2013 at 10:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-03-06 12:06:51 PM
4 votes:
THIS is a snow vehicle:

carphotos.cardomain.com

Low center of gravity, good tires, good clearance, good weight balance. Limited slip center differential so you don't swing the back end around on every corner.

This is overcompensation for something:
static.cargurus.com
2013-03-06 10:31:47 AM
4 votes:
I owned a couple of BMWs back in the day, and the owner's manual section on traction control had a big bolded statement as the first sentence:  Traction control does not override the constraints posed by the laws of physics.

Always good for a chuckle
2013-03-06 10:18:00 AM
4 votes:

Pocket Ninja: 10 Red Flags That Suggest the Person Driving a 4-Wheel Drive Vehicle Doesn't Actually Know How to Operate One:

1) The 4X4 looks more like a mini-van.
2) The 4X4 is spotlessly clean.
3) The 4X4 is regularly parked in the suburbs.
4) The 4X4 has an automatic lift gate or sliding side door.
5) The 4X4 has personalized plates that do not appear to reference hunting.
6) There are young children in the 4X4.
7) There is no dog in the 4X4, or if there is a dog it is a poodle.
8) There is a luggage carrier located somewhere on the 4X4, either atop it or on a small platform hooked to the back.
9) When operating the 4X4 in normal conditions, the driver goes around speed bumps in parking lots.
10) The person refers to his or her 4X4, which is not a pickup, as a "truck."


I'm not excusing the suburbanites, men and women, who drive their glorified minivans thinking they can just cruise through any condition, on the phone, with reckless abandon.  But around here (SLC), it's anyone with a big vehicle.  The F-250 drivers and Ram 2500 drivers and old souped up off-roaders  that are actually used for offroading all drive like morons when some snow starts to fall.  My impression is that these types think they are being cool if they gun it off the line following a redlight, or cruise by traffic at 45 mph ,when everyone else is going 25 mph due to road conditions.  It's not just the suburban SUV idiots.  It's anyone with a big vehicle who thinks they are "cool."
2013-03-06 09:06:17 AM
4 votes:
"Four-wheel drive can be useful in helping you get going and helping you gain traction when you're driving especially, for example, up big hills," Anderson says.
"But when it gets very slippery, you begin to have problems with traction."


What, was the obvious tag out to a movie or something?

/all cars have 4 brakes
2013-03-06 03:06:24 PM
3 votes:
Speaking as a former used-car salesman, in the 6 years I sold cars, we probably had less than twenty customers who actually needed a 4WD/AWD. All of them either had professions that required them to go off-highway to job sites or lived in areas that weren't frequently serviced by the plows (Western New York).

All the rest went to idiots that either wanted one of those bloated f**kers to basically look good when they showed up at the bar, or because all the rappers drove 'em in their videos. A few stated they preferred the type because the roads in downtown Buffalo are totally hammered from the weather and the substandard work done on them, which I would give them credit for, but most just wanted them because "they be big!"

From the first snowfall of the season to the last, we'd get calls from those idiots claiming they're vehicles were faulty because they lost it on the Thruway, or they pasted them driving too fast on bad days. It was always the vehicle's (and by extension our) fault they rear-ended someone or they planted it in the median.

I also blame the manufacturers and their ads. They show the cars (and they are really cars, for the most part), blasting through snow, driving at high speeds on icy roads, crap like that. Very few people are qualified to actually take something like this off-road, and honestly, SUVs are really minimal for actual off-roading. They're built very light in order to get something approaching decent mileage, are engineered more for comfort and convenience rather than off-road sensibilities, and like many have said, they give under-skilled drivers a false sense of security when conditions get hazardous.

I would seriously like to see most of them taken off the road. Even here in the Buffalo area, there are maybe 5-10 day a year that you would possible need one. They waste fuel and other resources to support them. Just about everything on them that aren't common-core parts costs four times as much as for a 2WD, and people simply don't have the proper skills in order to operate these things safely.

I'd like to see a system where you'd have to prove a true need for such a vehicle, along with a special endorsement on your driver's license before you'd be allowed to purchase one. Along with that, I'd like to see them governed so they can't exceed 75 miles per hour, and restrictions on useless garbage like DVD players and displays. You got kids that need constant entertainment on drives? Too bad. Deal with it like my parents did. Comic books, coloring books, road games worked just fine then.

And then there are the ones who want one so they're "safer" in an accident. Pure BS. Most SUVs are little more than a steel, plastic, and aluminum bubble now (unibody), exactly like a regular car. They come apart just as fast in collisions with the added bonus of having a higher center of gravity they tend to roll over more.
2013-03-06 01:39:12 PM
3 votes:
3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-03-06 12:15:50 PM
3 votes:
• nothing will help you on ice - not tires, not 4wd, not anything - except extreme caution
• in snow and slush, snow tires are key - especially if you have RWD. the germans have known this for decades and do just fine
• there is no such thing as an all-season tire - with the possible exception of the Nokian WRG2, which is awesome and well worth the price.
2013-03-06 12:10:51 PM
3 votes:
Sharksfan:

I have 5 kids. A minivan served me just fine while they were growing up. No need for an SUV.
2013-03-06 10:19:33 AM
3 votes:
I used to see the same thing in LA whenever it rained. Morans in 4x4's would fly along at 80mph and end up hydroplaning into the center divider.
Farking traction.. how does it work?
2013-03-06 09:50:35 AM
3 votes:
Because dumbasses think they're immune and capable of driving through anything just because they're in something big.
2013-03-06 09:23:29 AM
3 votes:
10 Red Flags That Suggest the Person Driving a 4-Wheel Drive Vehicle Doesn't Actually Know How to Operate One:

1) The 4X4 looks more like a mini-van.
2) The 4X4 is spotlessly clean.
3) The 4X4 is regularly parked in the suburbs.
4) The 4X4 has an automatic lift gate or sliding side door.
5) The 4X4 has personalized plates that do not appear to reference hunting.
6) There are young children in the 4X4.
7) There is no dog in the 4X4, or if there is a dog it is a poodle.
8) There is a luggage carrier located somewhere on the 4X4, either atop it or on a small platform hooked to the back.
9) When operating the 4X4 in normal conditions, the driver goes around speed bumps in parking lots.
10) The person refers to his or her 4X4, which is not a pickup, as a "truck."
2013-03-06 03:42:53 PM
2 votes:
I don't pull into an intersection unless I know I can get out of it safely. Sitting in the middle of an intersection doesn't give you the right-of-way; you're forcing others who have the right-of-way to remain stopped because you feel entitled to turn. I prefer not to encourage others to plow into my car.
2013-03-06 12:55:36 PM
2 votes:
Reason #1: Most people who own an SUV don't know how to drive it and only bought in the belief that it would help them survive the inevitable accident.
2013-03-06 12:33:48 PM
2 votes:
JackieRabbit:  drive with their flashers on

I hate people that do this.

"Oh no, it's raining, better put my flashers on and drive 15mph in the middle lane on the interstate!"

If the weather has degraded to the point that you feel you are enough of a hazard that you need to put your hazard lights on, then get the fark off of the road.
2013-03-06 12:11:47 PM
2 votes:

JackieRabbit: Bad: people who don't know how to drive in snow and ice and plow into you because they don't know how to brake.

Worse: people who are so petrified that it's snowing that they drive with their flashers on at 5 mph and block traffic just long enough for the roads to freeze solid, so that everyone is stuck.


My Dad always told me that driving too slow is just as dangerous as driving too fast.
2013-03-06 12:07:45 PM
2 votes:
Bad: people who don't know how to drive in snow and ice and plow into you because they don't know how to brake.

Worse: people who are so petrified that it's snowing that they drive with their flashers on at 5 mph and block traffic just long enough for the roads to freeze solid, so that everyone is stuck.
2013-03-06 11:19:26 AM
2 votes:

Pocket Ninja: 10 Red Flags That Suggest the Person Driving a 4-Wheel Drive Vehicle Doesn't Actually Know How to Operate One:

1) The 4X4 looks more like a mini-van.
2) The 4X4 is spotlessly clean.
3) The 4X4 is regularly parked in the suburbs.
4) The 4X4 has an automatic lift gate or sliding side door.
5) The 4X4 has personalized plates that do not appear to reference hunting.
6) There are young children in the 4X4.
7) There is no dog in the 4X4, or if there is a dog it is a poodle.
8) There is a luggage carrier located somewhere on the 4X4, either atop it or on a small platform hooked to the back.
9) When operating the 4X4 in normal conditions, the driver goes around speed bumps in parking lots.
10) The person refers to his or her 4X4, which is not a pickup, as a "truck."


11) There is a stupid-ass stick-figure family on the back window.
2013-03-06 10:39:37 AM
2 votes:
4 wheel drive just means all 4 wheels are turning as you slide into the ditch

/Jeep herder
2013-03-06 10:37:15 AM
2 votes:
Nothing scarier than a soccer mom with her first SUV.  Another batch of freezing rain and snow here, which is the norm lately.  Especially on ice, 4WD isn't much help.  But, by God, they spent tons of money on this thing, and clicking into 4WD means total safety, drive like hell, right?  This morning though, it was some doofus in a Lincoln MKZ  (AWD) who felt bulletproof, until she saw the car in the median that had just spun out.  Suddenly, 70mph on packed snow and ice didn't seem like a good idea.
2013-03-06 10:34:00 AM
2 votes:
Because they think that they are driving a big, heavy, expensive SUV with 4WD means that things like traction on icy roads does not apply to them.

People are idiots...more at 11

Anecdotal CSB:

All female SUV drivers here in NoVa only wipe enough snow off their side of the windshield after a heavy snow because "oh, the car is too big for me to wipe off entirely"  Stupid farking hatchet wounds!!!
2013-03-06 10:03:04 AM
2 votes:

vernonFL: People get overconfident

People in the DC metro area can't drive for shiate. No, really, people here can't drive, especially in snow.


The problem with DC drivers (and I'm one of them) is that everyone is from somewhere else. Very few natives here. So you get a road full of people from all over the world, some places that don't even have traffic laws so much as suggestions, all bringing their own sensibilities to how THEY think everyone should or will drive. It does make driving more difficult when you can't predict what the drivers in front of you will do, or when you do one thing and another driver was thinking you'd do something else.

For me it's the left turn lanes that have the arrow, but when the arrow goes off there's a solid green and you can turn left provided no traffic is coming the other way. In the midwest where I'm from, cars pull out into the intersection, so that you can get up to three cars waiting to turn left. Then when the light turns red, those cars can clear the intersection. In northern Virginia, people sit at the stop line and don't go out into the intersection. It kills me every time that we have to sit through an entire cycle just because a person doesn't know how or desires not to do that.
2013-03-06 09:07:33 AM
2 votes:
Answer: tires
2013-03-07 08:55:39 PM
1 votes:

genepool lifeboat: 4 Wheel Drive =/= 4 Wheel Stop

Either you know how to drive in snow, or you make friends with the tow guy.


So much this.

I drive a 4WD. I have no problems driving in winter, because pops wouldn't let me drive until I *could* drive in winter. Winter driving is actually just common sense- something most people lack.
2013-03-07 08:22:17 PM
1 votes:
Oh, and I've personally found that a compact or midsize FWD sedan with a manual transmission and good tires (Michelins) has worked fine for me in snow these past 20+ years.  Like somebody else said, in both good and bad weather, get to know your limits and the cars limits. And, then also keep in mind "better safe than sorry."
2013-03-06 05:29:11 PM
1 votes:
Snow tires > 4WD.


My little VW Jetta with real snow tires is better in the snow than my dad's monstrous Lincoln Navigator with all-seasons.
2013-03-06 04:20:40 PM
1 votes:
gocomics.typepad.com
2013-03-06 03:40:47 PM
1 votes:

Flragnararch: 11) the 4x4 does not have its lights on in the middle of the day while its snowing


AHHHHHHH...   This drives me nuts.  It's snowing like crazy, visibility's a couple hundred feet, everyone has their wipers going, and the guy in the BLACK SUV can't be bothered to turn on his lights.  In fairness, it seems like every vehicle without headlights on ( not just SUVs) when they should be is some dark color (blue, black, whatever).  Makes sense I guess, they didn't think about visibility when choosing a color, why would they think about it now?

Anyway, could this lack of headlights be because of the AUTO headlight feature on later models?

Drove a couple of Chevy's for the job that had this.  Apparently the lights are supposed to come on if it's dark enough.  Wasn't able to test this, I turned them on manually.


/my '97 ford ranger obviously does not have this feature
//good, one less thing to have to bypass
2013-03-06 03:32:50 PM
1 votes:

SpectroBoy: FlashHarry: • nothing will help you on ice - not tires, not 4wd, not anything - except extreme caution

Studded snows help.

I had 4 studded snows on my old 1978 Camaro and the thing would go through packed snow and ice like a champ.


Studded snow tires are illegal in several states. The one time I was in a car with studded tires, it was amazing. A '76 Oldsmobile Cutlass Station Wagon with studded tires will out-perform newer cars with 4x4.
2013-03-06 03:22:50 PM
1 votes:
I see it every year in Canada.  The guy most likely to get into an accident when it slows is usually driving an SUV and thinks putting it into 4wd means they can drive the same way as a dry day in summer.

For me 4wd is for getting up and down unplowed side streets in my area (which are all very hilly).
2013-03-06 02:44:14 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Because dumbasses think they're immune and capable of driving through anything just because they're in something big.


EXACTLY!!!  Not to mention the fact that most people who own SUVs have the driving skills of a 3 year old, in other words  over confidence in their machine coupled with poor driving skills.
2013-03-06 02:12:29 PM
1 votes:
Yep, Idiots / people who don't know how to drive.  2 snowstorms in the past week.  I have to take a country road on my way home.  Most of the cars in the ditches where SUVs.  Yet I have no problem with my 4 speed manual cobalt and bald tires. (well except for the #@$!@# driver side door that has now decided to not open)
2013-03-06 01:03:51 PM
1 votes:

Flint Ironstag: Particularly funny with the original Audi Quattro. Locking the diff (which they suggest for snow) actually turns off the ABS. It does mention that fact in tiny fine print...


You actually stop faster in snow with ABS off.

\As to whether you stop straight...
\\In snow (or gravel), plowing is faster than a friction stop. ABS prevents plowing.
2013-03-06 12:52:48 PM
1 votes:
Oh, and for God's sake, leave a little room between you and the car in front of you!
2013-03-06 12:48:13 PM
1 votes:
Pocket Ninja:10 Red Flags That Suggest the Person Driving a 4-Wheel Drive Vehicle Doesn't Actually Know How to Operate One:

1) The 4X4 looks more like a mini-van.
2) The 4X4 is spotlessly clean.
3) The 4X4 is regularly parked in the suburbs.
4) The 4X4 has an automatic lift gate or sliding side door.
5) The 4X4 has personalized plates that do not appear to reference hunting.
6) There are young children in the 4X4.
7) There is no dog in the 4X4, or if there is a dog it is a poodle.
8) There is a luggage carrier located somewhere on the 4X4, either atop it or on a small platform hooked to the back.
9) When operating the 4X4 in normal conditions, the driver goes around speed bumps in parking lots.
10) The person refers to his or her 4X4, which is not a pickup, as a "truck."


I would like to add

2b) The 4x4 is lumped with snow except the little bit to let the driver see out the front window.
11) the 4x4 does not have its lights on in the middle of the day while its snowing
2013-03-06 12:45:13 PM
1 votes:

Sharksfan: Earpj: I have 5 kids. A minivan served me just fine while they were growing up. No need for an SUV.

Well, to each their own.  No way a mini-van would pull our boat though, and I don't think I'd want to drive one in the winter in the northern plains even with FWD/AWD.


Must have a hell of a boat that for the northern plains that exceeds the 3,500lbs capacity of most modern minvans.

Don't boat, but its nice to be able to put large items in the back of the van.  4x8 plywood fits well with the rear seats down and mid seats out.
2013-03-06 12:42:20 PM
1 votes:
Having lived in Colorado for fourteen years, I can attest to the truth of this. I have no idea exactly how many 4WD vehicles (trucks, SUVs, whatever) I saw off the road and down an embankment during that time, but it had to be in the dozens. Driving from Denver to any ski area in the snow, you were sure to see at least two, three, four rigs on their side (or their roof). My little Honda did just fine, however. Keep you speed down, don't make sudden lane changes, and PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE OTHER GUY IS DOING.
2013-03-06 12:24:04 PM
1 votes:

Too Pretty For Prison: Oh, I just have to share.  The other week in St. Louis we got dumped on.  I had to go to work that night.  I took it easy and got there in one piece.  Only one lane was open on the highway.  I had this assclown running up on me, flashing his lights, honking, etc.  He made a couple of failed attempts to pass me, but there was really no way for him to pass.  I was cruising about 30 (I was pacing myself behind the snow plow).  As I exited, he got off with me, pulled up next to me, rolled own his window and accused my mom and I of incest, then floored it right through the red light.  He tried to turn left and instead kept going straight into a guardrail.  After the light changed, I went by nice and slow and gave him a little wave.  What a waste of an Escalade.


That is what dashcams are made for. So you can post it to Youtube and we can all laugh.
2013-03-06 12:20:39 PM
1 votes:
Oh, I just have to share.  The other week in St. Louis we got dumped on.  I had to go to work that night.  I took it easy and got there in one piece.  Only one lane was open on the highway.  I had this assclown running up on me, flashing his lights, honking, etc.  He made a couple of failed attempts to pass me, but there was really no way for him to pass.  I was cruising about 30 (I was pacing myself behind the snow plow).  As I exited, he got off with me, pulled up next to me, rolled own his window and accused my mom and I of incest, then floored it right through the red light.  He tried to turn left and instead kept going straight into a guardrail.  After the light changed, I went by nice and slow and gave him a little wave.  What a waste of an Escalade.
2013-03-06 12:12:17 PM
1 votes:
4x4 won't stop you from sliding off the road, but it will allow you to get back on the road afterward without the assistance of a tow truck. If you know how to use it, that is.

Of course, if you are a good driver, you won't be out on the road in those conditions, anyway.
2013-03-06 12:03:23 PM
1 votes:
SUV's are worse than cars in snow in many regards. Every car out there has four wheel brakes, but most cars also have a lower center of gravity and more responsive steering. I have a 4 wheel drive, but I feel safer in my car when it is slick. I'm more likely to get stuck trying to get up a hill, but less likely to get stuck in a ditch or in a collision with someone else.

What I've found to be the absolute trump card is full on snow tires. The soft compound stays flexible in low temps to work a bit on ice and the tread lets it bite. They are actively worse on dry pavement, but two wheel drive with true snow tires beats 4 wheel drive with all seasons on the slushy ice mess I see in NY.
2013-03-06 11:47:20 AM
1 votes:
DNRTFA...

I'm just going to go out on a limb and speak from my experience watching people and how they drive.  People with any sort of 4WD vehicle seem to be under the impression that the additional drive power and traction makes them immune to the forces of nature.  "Turn on the 4WD, and nothing will allow me to slip."
Then they get all cocky and go out driving with supreme confidence, right up until they discover how wrong they were, and cause a 7-car pileup.  Most of which is made up of the same sorts of vehicles.

I've never had anything more than a front wheel drive, subcompact for my commuter car, and I drive through all sorts of weather.  Perhaps the trick is to just be careful.
2013-03-06 11:42:31 AM
1 votes:
1. First Lesson in snow country - it's not the car, it's the driver
2. "What's wrong with my SUV?" - answer - "The loose nut behind the steering wheel"
3. Lessons from driving in Washington DC snow days -- all federal employees are batshiat crazy and need to be instutionalized for our safety
4. Everyone in Washington area lives off the Federal teet

Lesson -

Do not go near Washington DC until God fumigates it
2013-03-06 11:33:48 AM
1 votes:
Well, anyone that owns an SUV is- by definition - a moron or a prick.

They're an essentially useless vehicle, and they screw up traffic for everybody else because they are so big.

/here come the "But firefighters need them!" and "I live on a hill so I need an SUV!" people.
2013-03-06 11:27:59 AM
1 votes:
They also fail to realize that 4wd in these new crossovers or SUV's really means 2wd, with the driven wheels being the ones with the least traction. Unless you have a limited slip or locked axle, you are generally in this category.
2013-03-06 11:23:07 AM
1 votes:
AWD Forester, studded snows, and I bought it because the color specifically matched the color of the dirt on my road.
2013-03-06 11:14:55 AM
1 votes:
In fact, an SUV faces the same risks as any car when turning or braking. In addition, engaging all four wheels doesn't help on wet or slushy roads, and it uses up more gas.

Yeah, um what the FARK does this have to do with SUVs getting in accidents? Topic. Stay on it...

"But when it gets very slippery, you begin to have problems with traction."

Not if you know what you're doing. Which means slowing down, increasing stopping times, AND NOT CUTTING PEOPLE THE FARK OFF.... Seriously, the last storm we had, I was driving on sheets of ice, doing just fine, and I had 2 different cars just pull out in front of me, close enough that would have been a problem on a dry road, and turned out to be about 2 inches shy of an accident on the icy roads.

Farking assholes.

Here we go: 4WD DOES increase traction. It increases it even on "very slippery" roads. Your 4WD can even help when turning, despite what this numbnuts says, since you have power to the turning wheels, as well as traction helping to push you through the turn. It won't help with braking, but it can help when using your engine/transmission to slow you down. You have all kinds of benefits that this moron can't figure out, but he DID get one thing right: overconfidence. That's the biggest culprit. People who think their 4WD makes that sheet of ice called a road suddenly equal the same road if it were empty and dry.

The weirdest thing about that last storm? I kept having people doing scary, dumb shiat and driving like morons. My buddy who drives on the other side of town had damp roads, but no snow and ice(Salt Lake is weird when it comes to weather), and THOSe people were driving like it was a farking blizzard. So yeah, snowy/icy part of town? Farking NASCAR. Dry, clear side of town? The Great Ice Storm of 2013 or something.

When I get the Jeep I want with the nice big tube bumpers, I'm just not going to be able to stop "in time" one of these mornings and hit one of these cock-knockers who pulls out in front of me. I'll be able to drive away, and he/she will be stuck with their own repair bill...
2013-03-06 11:13:37 AM
1 votes:

Sim Tree: SurfaceTension: vernonFL: People get overconfident

People in the DC metro area can't drive for shiate. No, really, people here can't drive, especially in snow.

The problem with DC drivers (and I'm one of them) is that everyone is from somewhere else. Very few natives here. So you get a road full of people from all over the world, some places that don't even have traffic laws so much as suggestions, all bringing their own sensibilities to how THEY think everyone should or will drive. It does make driving more difficult when you can't predict what the drivers in front of you will do, or when you do one thing and another driver was thinking you'd do something else.

For me it's the left turn lanes that have the arrow, but when the arrow goes off there's a solid green and you can turn left provided no traffic is coming the other way. In the midwest where I'm from, cars pull out into the intersection, so that you can get up to three cars waiting to turn left. Then when the light turns red, those cars can clear the intersection. In northern Virginia, people sit at the stop line and don't go out into the intersection. It kills me every time that we have to sit through an entire cycle just because a person doesn't know how or desires not to do that.

For a turn with no arrow, that might be necessary to achieve a left turn, but if an arrow is coming anyway, it's best not to be inside the intersection when cross-traffic starts moving through it; if the road has an arrow, the cross-traffic timing was designed with that in mind, and doesn't have as lengthly a 'clear period' between lights. I've seen (and in DC mind you) 5-7 cars in a state of half-left turn nearly get T-boned by the first person through the intersection on a green, who is used to the 'green means go' motif.

Also, I've seen this lead to gridlock as there isn't enough space for the left-turns to turn into, as the cross road is synchronized to the cross-traffic lights and not fore-traffic lights, so oncoming tr ...


Not to take this thread off road, but I have a rant about people turning left.  Have they stopped teaching new drivers NOT to turn your wheels to the left until you start to actually make the turn???  I've lost track of the times that I've seen some nimrod get into the left-turn lane, crank their wheels, and get rear-ended, propelling the car into oncoming traffic.  Don't turn the wheels and you get a dent; turn the wheels and get a head-on.
2013-03-06 11:05:27 AM
1 votes:

SurfaceTension: vernonFL: People get overconfident

People in the DC metro area can't drive for shiate. No, really, people here can't drive, especially in snow.

The problem with DC drivers (and I'm one of them) is that everyone is from somewhere else. Very few natives here. So you get a road full of people from all over the world, some places that don't even have traffic laws so much as suggestions, all bringing their own sensibilities to how THEY think everyone should or will drive. It does make driving more difficult when you can't predict what the drivers in front of you will do, or when you do one thing and another driver was thinking you'd do something else.

For me it's the left turn lanes that have the arrow, but when the arrow goes off there's a solid green and you can turn left provided no traffic is coming the other way. In the midwest where I'm from, cars pull out into the intersection, so that you can get up to three cars waiting to turn left. Then when the light turns red, those cars can clear the intersection. In northern Virginia, people sit at the stop line and don't go out into the intersection. It kills me every time that we have to sit through an entire cycle just because a person doesn't know how or desires not to do that.


I wail on my farking horn when people do not pull out/play with their phones and impeed the flow of those behind them.  Not pulling out infuriates me to no end.
2013-03-06 11:03:38 AM
1 votes:

mysticcat: Answer: tires


Oh, I'm sorry but thanks for playing. The answer we were looking for is: idiots.
I live outside of Seattle. When it snows I stay home for two main reasons:
1) We have big, steep hills that are not cleared or salted. You may think that driving in winter is easy. I grew up in Toronto and drove my whole live in winter, never even bothered with snow tires. But let me assure you that there is a massive difference between driving in a city that is aggressively plowed and salted and driving in a city where basically nothing is done to deal with snow and ice.
2) People. No matter how good a driver you are, it won't save you from being hit by an idiot or tied up in traffic for two hours a mile from your house because the roads are full of idiots.
2013-03-06 10:54:53 AM
1 votes:
Because every farker with 4 wheel drive thinks it makes them invincible in ANY weather condition.  I had some dumb fark in an SUV go barreling by me in horrendously thick fog.  I was unaware 4 wheel drive granted you x-ray vision.
2013-03-06 10:53:56 AM
1 votes:
It's partly that very few people are taught how to drive in snow and how to recover from a skid.  They go too fast, lose traction, panic, ram on the brakes and end up off the road since 4wd does fark all for stopping.

I remember a few snows back I was driving into my neighborhood and started to skid on the turn- lay off the brakes, steer into it, touch of gas, fine.  It's not hard to master- except for soccer mom in the SUV right behind me, who jammed on the brakes and ended up in the ditch.

Parents- take your kids out to a snowy parking lot the first time you get a chance.  Skid recovery is fun to learn, and it's a critical driving skill.
2013-03-06 10:53:44 AM
1 votes:

Sharksfan: In fact, an SUV faces the same risks as any car when turning or braking. In addition, engaging all four wheels doesn't help on wet or slushy roads, and it uses up more gas.

Perhaps engaging FWD doesn't help on wet or slushy roads in the DC Metro - but it (along with traction control) sure as hell does help in those conditions in states with "real" winter, such as MN where I grew up (9 miles from Canada) or WI where I currently reside.

4WD with slow speeds = win in most negative winter conditions.

Once you accumulate any real speed relative to the conditions you're pretty much screwed.  The scariest driving experience I ever had was one winter day I stopped for gas on a long (4 hour or so) road trip early in the morning.  When I came out of the gas station I noticed it had briefly rained - my windshield was wet.

I got back on the freeway and got up to speed just in time to see three cars spin out of control in front of me.  That's when I realized the rain had frozen the second it hit the freeway, changing it into a skating rink.  It's a REALLY bad feeling to realize you're going 65 or so and have zero traction.

Luckily I grew up with this sort of thing and had no curves in the road - I just eased off the gas and coasted until I was down to about 15 mph and then flipped it into 4WD and drove slow until I was out of it.  I got passed numerous times by people only to see them in the ditch a mile or two down the road.

/CSB and all that


Had that EXACT thing happen to me about 3 weeks ago going from Cincy to Columbus.

Only I'm in an RX-8 with shiat tires and RWD only.

Cars spinning out to the left and right, SUV's upside down in the median... I will admit that I got sideways once or twice, but I didn't have too much trouble reaching my destination.

/Learned how to drive in snow in a 'cuda
2013-03-06 10:52:51 AM
1 votes:
Lived ten years in New Jersey / New York, seen a lot of wrecked SUV's / trucks.

Dear idiots; having a heavy four wheel drive vehicle just makes it easy for you to accelerate, it does NOT help you stop.  And f'ing STOPPING is the problem in ice conditions.
2013-03-06 10:50:58 AM
1 votes:

mysticcat: I owned a couple of BMWs back in the day, and the owner's manual section on traction control had a big bolded statement as the first sentence:  Traction control does not override the constraints posed by the laws of physics.

Always good for a chuckle


This is related to one thing my father drilled into my head, and I plan to drill it into my daughter's head when (god forbid) the time comes for her to begin her driving life. The laws of physics are cold biatches. They aren't TRYING to kill you, but they don't care if you live or die whatsoever. They will not bend for you, or anyone. VERY important for every driver to understand this, when it comes to winter or any other sort of driving at all.
2013-03-06 10:50:55 AM
1 votes:
Four wheel drive DOES NOT mean four wheel STOP.

Get it?
2013-03-06 10:49:00 AM
1 votes:
I always tell my wife and her friends that 4WD just helps to get you going. Everyone has 4 wheel stop. This is followed by a pregnant pause. Then "ooooh!"
2013-03-06 10:44:55 AM
1 votes:
Know the limitations of your driving ability and your vehicle. You don't drive a truck the same way your drive and Escort, and you adapt your driving to the road conditions. in other words, learn to drive, noobs.
2013-03-06 10:44:19 AM
1 votes:
During a recent "snowstorm" here in NC, local news was rife with stories of overturned vehicles. From the footage they showed, each and every vehicle, without fail, was an SUV. The laws of physics still apply to your big-ass grocery-go-getters, people.
2013-03-06 10:43:05 AM
1 votes:

Three Crooked Squirrels: But around here (SLC), it's anyone with a big vehicle.


When I commuted 30 miles a day on I-35 near Austin, I discovered that the initials "Z71" were basically a self-selecting identification tag for douchebags.
2013-03-06 10:33:49 AM
1 votes:
Why?
Answer: Women
2013-03-06 09:24:53 AM
1 votes:

vernonFL: People get overconfident

People in the DC metro area can't drive for shiate. No, really, people here can't drive, especially in snow.


So very this.
If you don't know how to drive in snow, the SUV can't help you, other than to get you further off the road when you loose control.
2013-03-06 09:13:57 AM
1 votes:
People get overconfident

People in the DC metro area can't drive for shiate. No, really, people here can't drive, especially in snow.
 
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