waterrockets: genepool lifeboat: 4 Wheel Drive =/= 4 Wheel StopEither you know how to drive in snow, or you make friends with the tow guy.Says the guy who's never downshifted a manual 4x4/ice racer//grew up in Jeeps and Scouts in the Colorado mountains///never gone off a road in a 4x4 unplanned////also got passed a lot during snowstorms, but always got where I was going
omahatattoo: JustFish: Got a little subaru outback, and will never go back to two wheel drive.The problem people have is F=MA. For christ sake, yes, four wheel drive will help, but it doesn't change the physics people.First thing I do when it snows, no matter the car I have at the time, is go out to an empty parking lot and practice emergency turning / braking. You have to know the vehicle and it's limits, and each one is different. Slapping some safety features like ABS and AWD on a car doesn't change the fact that it's a GIANT HEAVY SUV.The only mention of a Subaru so far...Fark, I am disappoint.My 07 Impreza Outback handles like a dream in the snow. I need to remind myself how reliable it is the next time I think of buying anything else.
PyroStock: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x219]
Three Crooked Squirrels: Pocket Ninja: 10 Red Flags That Suggest the Person Driving a 4-Wheel Drive Vehicle Doesn't Actually Know How to Operate One:1) The 4X4 looks more like a mini-van.2) The 4X4 is spotlessly clean.3) The 4X4 is regularly parked in the suburbs.4) The 4X4 has an automatic lift gate or sliding side door.5) The 4X4 has personalized plates that do not appear to reference hunting.6) There are young children in the 4X4.7) There is no dog in the 4X4, or if there is a dog it is a poodle.8) There is a luggage carrier located somewhere on the 4X4, either atop it or on a small platform hooked to the back.9) When operating the 4X4 in normal conditions, the driver goes around speed bumps in parking lots.10) The person refers to his or her 4X4, which is not a pickup, as a "truck."I'm not excusing the suburbanites, men and women, who drive their glorified minivans thinking they can just cruise through any condition, on the phone, with reckless abandon. But around here (SLC), it's anyone with a big vehicle. The F-250 drivers and Ram 2500 drivers and old souped up off-roaders that are actually used for offroading all drive like morons when some snow starts to fall. My impression is that these types think they are being cool if they gun it off the line following a redlight, or cruise by traffic at 45 mph ,when everyone else is going 25 mph due to road conditions. It's not just the suburban SUV idiots. It's anyone with a big vehicle who thinks they are "cool."
genepool lifeboat: waterrockets: genepool lifeboat: 4 Wheel Drive =/= 4 Wheel StopEither you know how to drive in snow, or you make friends with the tow guy.Says the guy who's never downshifted a manual 4x4/ice racer//grew up in Jeeps and Scouts in the Colorado mountains///never gone off a road in a 4x4 unplanned////also got passed a lot during snowstorms, but always got where I was goingHad a 94 Wrangler (Manual Trans) and live in Western NY. Downshifted in the winter plenty of times. Wet ice is still wet ice.
GAT_00: Because dumbasses think they're immune and capable of driving through anything just because they're in something big.
waterrockets: Well then you know that it's possible to slow more rapidly in a 4x4 than in a car that's just using brakes.
waterrockets: I never had any jeeps as new as a Wrangler. '42 Willy's CJ-2A, '69 CJ-5, '84 CJ-7, then a '97 4Runner.
Mikey1969: In fact, an SUV faces the same risks as any car when turning or braking. In addition, engaging all four wheels doesn't help on wet or slushy roads, and it uses up more gas.Yeah, um what the FARK does this have to do with SUVs getting in accidents? Topic. Stay on it..."But when it gets very slippery, you begin to have problems with traction."Not if you know what you're doing. Which means slowing down, increasing stopping times, AND NOT CUTTING PEOPLE THE FARK OFF.... Seriously, the last storm we had, I was driving on sheets of ice, doing just fine, and I had 2 different cars just pull out in front of me, close enough that would have been a problem on a dry road, and turned out to be about 2 inches shy of an accident on the icy roads.Farking assholes.Here we go: 4WD DOES increase traction. It increases it even on "very slippery" roads. Your 4WD can even help when turning, despite what this numbnuts says, since you have power to the turning wheels, as well as traction helping to push you through the turn. It won't help with braking, but it can help when using your engine/transmission to slow you down. You have all kinds of benefits that this moron can't figure out, but he DID get one thing right: overconfidence. That's the biggest culprit. People who think their 4WD makes that sheet of ice called a road suddenly equal the same road if it were empty and dry.The weirdest thing about that last storm? I kept having people doing scary, dumb shiat and driving like morons. My buddy who drives on the other side of town had damp roads, but no snow and ice(Salt Lake is weird when it comes to weather), and THOSe people were driving like it was a farking blizzard. So yeah, snowy/icy part of town? Farking NASCAR. Dry, clear side of town? The Great Ice Storm of 2013 or something.When I get the Jeep I want with the nice big tube bumpers, I'm just not going to be able to stop "in time" one of these mornings and hit one of these cock-knockers who pulls out in front of me. ...
kkinnison: There are many idiots who think 4 wheel drive gives them more traction. When you get stuck in RWD or FWD, you switch to 4WD and go home to have a beer. if you get stuck in 4WD .. your stuck
smrtone: Oh, and for God's sake, leave a little room between you and the car in front of you!
titwrench: mysticcat: Answer: tiresThis. I have a 4wd suv that I take out yo the trails all the time but my current tires can not handle the mud at all. Half a mile in and my tires are so caked with mud they are useless they are barely even rudders at that point. The next set are going yo be a good BFG off road tire.
vudukungfu: AWD Forester, studded snows, and I bought it because the color specifically matched the color of the dirt on my road.
Psylence: I recommend an Expedition One steel plate front bumper. 125lbs of fark YOU when someone pulls out in front. Add in a winch for more carnage.
This text is now purple: waterrockets: Well then you know that it's possible to slow more rapidly in a 4x4 than in a car that's just using brakes.Engine braking and brake drum braking both require a functional frictional interface between tire surfaces and the roadway.If your tires cannot provide enough torque resistance, all of that decreased engine rotation just results in a spin.
vygramul: Because they help you get OUT of trouble, not keep you from getting INTO trouble?
Myria: We of SoCal collectively ask, what's snow?
FlashHarry: • nothing will help you on ice - not tires, not 4wd, not anything - except extreme caution
SpectroBoy: vudukungfu: AWD Forester, studded snows, and I bought it because the color specifically matched the color of the dirt on my road.My wife got a forester when we moved to the country. For the size of the engine and the car the thing is an unstoppable TANK in snow. It's good until the snow is up to the front "chin" of the car./ But no match for my Ford Expedition land-yacht
waterrockets: vygramul: Because they help you get OUT of trouble, not keep you from getting INTO trouble?Not if you know wtf you're doing.
SpectroBoy: FlashHarry: • nothing will help you on ice - not tires, not 4wd, not anything - except extreme cautionStudded snows help.I had 4 studded snows on my old 1978 Camaro and the thing would go through packed snow and ice like a champ.
redlegrick: Speaking as a former used-car salesman, in the 6 years I sold cars, we probably had less than twenty customers who actually needed a 4WD/AWD. All of them either had professions that required them to go off-highway to job sites or lived in areas that weren't frequently serviced by the plows (Western New York).All the rest went to idiots that either wanted one of those bloated f**kers to basically look good when they showed up at the bar, or because all the rappers drove 'em in their videos. A few stated they preferred the type because the roads in downtown Buffalo are totally hammered from the weather and the substandard work done on them, which I would give them credit for, but most just wanted them because "they be big!"From the first snowfall of the season to the last, we'd get calls from those idiots claiming they're vehicles were faulty because they lost it on the Thruway, or they pasted them driving too fast on bad days. It was always the vehicle's (and by extension our) fault they rear-ended someone or they planted it in the median.I also blame the manufacturers and their ads. They show the cars (and they are really cars, for the most part), blasting through snow, driving at high speeds on icy roads, crap like that. Very few people are qualified to actually take something like this off-road, and honestly, SUVs are really minimal for actual off-roading. They're built very light in order to get something approaching decent mileage, are engineered more for comfort and convenience rather than off-road sensibilities, and like many have said, they give under-skilled drivers a false sense of security when conditions get hazardous.I would seriously like to see most of them taken off the road. Even here in the Buffalo area, there are maybe 5-10 day a year that you would possible need one. They waste fuel and other resources to support them. Just about everything on them that aren't common-core parts costs four times as much as for a 2WD, and people simply don't ...
Flragnararch: 11) the 4x4 does not have its lights on in the middle of the day while its snowing
Explodo: It looks an awful lot like a pretty mundane little hill you have there. I've seen minivans and Civics drive hills like that. Maybe I'm losing some sense of scale there, but it really doesn't look like it.Yay living in Colorado with a Rubicon!
FlashHarry: • nothing will help you on ice - not tires, not 4wd, not anything - except extreme caution• in snow and slush, snow tires are key - especially if you have RWD. the germans have known this for decades and do just fine• there is no such thing as an all-season tire - with the possible exception of the Nokian WRG2, which is awesome and well worth the price.
Maud Dib: UberDave:I drive PINS a lot. This sign should really say, "Abandon all hope, all ye who enter without 4WD."One day, many years ago, some guy hit the sand and drove the full 60 miles to the Mansfield Cut in a got-damn 4 door Lincoln Continental. He finally got stuck while realizing he couldn't swim across the cut. Took 3 big ol' 4WD trucks in tandem to pull him out.[i865.photobucket.com image 850x662]
Sojianna: I don't pull into an intersection unless I know I can get out of it safely. Sitting in the middle of an intersection doesn't give you the right-of-way; you're forcing others who have the right-of-way to remain stopped because you feel entitled to turn. I prefer not to encourage others to plow into my car.
Dr. Goldshnoz: It doesn't matter what is on vehicle is being carried by tires when they are in sufficient ice and snow, news at 11.
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