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(CNN)   Not news: Couple hires a surrogate. News: Baby is defective. Fark: Offer to exchange is rebuffed   (cnn.com) divider line 310
    More: Interesting, Hartford Hospital, fertility problems, heart defect, midwife  
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12676 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Mar 2013 at 2:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-05 01:59:38 PM
In one view, she's a saint who fought at great personal sacrifice for an unborn child whose own parents did not want her to live. In another view, she recklessly absconded with someone else's child and brought into the world a baby who faces serious medical challenges when that wasn't her decision to make.

....wow.  That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.
 
2013-03-05 02:14:34 PM

The Onion is prophetic: That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.


Agreed. I'm gonna butt the hell out, and just munch on some popcorn.
 
2013-03-05 02:16:00 PM
Good. They shouldn't be parents.
 
2013-03-05 02:18:18 PM
No winners, only pain.
 
2013-03-05 02:18:48 PM
This is like complaining that a roller coaster made you puke, isn't it? Or am I missing something about the commodification of human reproduction?
 
2013-03-05 02:19:39 PM
She has a birth defect called, where the brain fails to completely divide into distinct hemispheres. She has, which means many of her internal organs, such as her liver and stomach, are in the wrong places. She has at least two spleens, neither of which works properly. Her head is very small, her right ear is misshapen, she has a cleft lip and a cleft palate, and a long list of complex heart defects, among other problems.

That's one hell of a fixer-upper.
 
2013-03-05 02:19:59 PM

The Onion is prophetic: In one view, she's a saint who fought at great personal sacrifice for an unborn child whose own parents did not want her to live. In another view, she recklessly absconded with someone else's child and brought into the world a baby who faces serious medical challenges when that wasn't her decision to make.

....wow.  That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.


Yeah, this is one for the bioethicists to handle.

You'd think they'd have something in the contract for this, but then again, could you legally enforce a contract to require an abortion in the event of medical issues?

/honestly people, just friggin' adopt
//it doesn't matter if your genetic codes are a part of a kid or not
 
2013-03-05 02:20:10 PM
We don't have defective cans, we have a defective person!
 
2013-03-05 02:21:08 PM

MaxxLarge: The Onion is prophetic: That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.

Agreed. I'm gonna butt the hell out, and just munch on some popcorn.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-05 02:22:32 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Good. They shouldn't be parents.


And yet:

The couple was caring and attentive with their three children, who were sweet and well-mannered and played nicely with her own two daughters. The couple desperately wanted a fourth child, but the mother couldn't have any more babies.
 
2013-03-05 02:23:03 PM

Strolpol: The Onion is prophetic: In one view, she's a saint who fought at great personal sacrifice for an unborn child whose own parents did not want her to live. In another view, she recklessly absconded with someone else's child and brought into the world a baby who faces serious medical challenges when that wasn't her decision to make.

....wow.  That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.

Yeah, this is one for the bioethicists to handle.

You'd think they'd have something in the contract for this, but then again, could you legally enforce a contract to require an abortion in the event of medical issues?

/honestly people, just friggin' adopt
//it doesn't matter if your genetic codes are a part of a kid or not


You don't really get the monstrous self-regard of the upper middle classes, do you? You know, the kind of people who can afford to rent uteri because they've deferred reproduction in favour of careers, wine cellars and flat abdomens.
 
2013-03-05 02:23:34 PM
The onion is prophetic:   and I predict this thread is going to be ugly

That's pretty harsh dude....

/oh you're talking about the thread....carry on
 
2013-03-05 02:24:00 PM

Strolpol: /honestly people, just friggin' adopt



As if adoption doesn't run a risk of a horror story.

Fu(k that. If I ever raise a child, it will be mine. Or at least I'll believe it to be mine.
 
2013-03-05 02:24:55 PM
i.imgur.comi.imgur.com
i.imgur.com i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-05 02:25:04 PM
I think this woman needs to get a real job.
 
2013-03-05 02:26:02 PM
/sick of popcorn
 
2013-03-05 02:27:04 PM

Strolpol: The Onion is prophetic: In one view, she's a saint who fought at great personal sacrifice for an unborn child whose own parents did not want her to live. In another view, she recklessly absconded with someone else's child and brought into the world a baby who faces serious medical challenges when that wasn't her decision to make.

....wow.  That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.

Yeah, this is one for the bioethicists to handle.

You'd think they'd have something in the contract for this, but then again, could you legally enforce a contract to require an abortion in the event of medical issues?

/honestly people, just friggin' adopt
//it doesn't matter if your genetic codes are a part of a kid or not


THIS! In a world with so many kids who need good homes, why go through all that hassle? People place way too much emphasis on genetics instead of people.
 
2013-03-05 02:27:54 PM
Yeesh. What a nightmare of a story. All around terrible.
 
2013-03-05 02:28:39 PM
Well this thread will be full of well reasoned intelligent logical and calm debate
 
2013-03-05 02:28:57 PM

tricycleracer: She has a birth defect called, where the brain fails to completely divide into distinct hemispheres. She has, which means many of her internal organs, such as her liver and stomach, are in the wrong places. She has at least two spleens, neither of which works properly. Her head is very small, her right ear is misshapen, she has a cleft lip and a cleft palate, and a long list of complex heart defects, among other problems.

That's one hell of a fixer-upper.


Hate to say it but, yeah, maybe this one wasn't worth bringing into the world.
 
2013-03-05 02:29:33 PM
You would think you'd want to hang on to a baby detective, that seems pretty cool
 
2013-03-05 02:30:10 PM
They had three children but needed MORE to the extent that they would go through surrogacy? WTF?? Why not shower love on the three you have, or adopt needy kids who are already here?

Selfish parents. I wonder how your three feel about not being enough for you. Baby hoarders.
 
2013-03-05 02:30:29 PM

The Onion is prophetic: In one view, she's a saint who fought at great personal sacrifice for an unborn child whose own parents did not want her to live. In another view, she recklessly absconded with someone else's child and brought into the world a baby who faces serious medical challenges when that wasn't her decision to make.

....wow.  That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.


This thread should never have been born!
 
2013-03-05 02:31:06 PM
TFA: "I told them it wasn't their decision to play God."

I have a hard time wrapping my head around just how much selective processing has to be going on, for that woman, in that situation, to make that argument.
 
2013-03-05 02:31:34 PM
The letter describes how the parents tried to convince Kelley to change her mind. Their three children were born prematurely, and two of them had to spend months in the hospital and still had medical problems. They wanted something better for this child.

Nature/God is telling you to stop having kids. Take the farking hint. You should have figured out the score after the second kid.

Not done with the article, but I hate everyone involved. Not sure how I'll feel by the end.
 
2013-03-05 02:32:03 PM
*gets popcorn*
 
2013-03-05 02:32:08 PM
Why would the babby want to defect? Isn't the Cold War over?
 
2013-03-05 02:32:23 PM

Strolpol: The Onion is prophetic: In one view, she's a saint who fought at great personal sacrifice for an unborn child whose own parents did not want her to live. In another view, she recklessly absconded with someone else's child and brought into the world a baby who faces serious medical challenges when that wasn't her decision to make.

....wow.  That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.

Yeah, this is one for the bioethicists to handle.

You'd think they'd have something in the contract for this, but then again, could you legally enforce a contract to require an abortion in the event of medical issues?

/honestly people, just friggin' adopt
//it doesn't matter if your genetic codes are a part of a kid or not


^All of this.

I don't see how that type of clause could be enforce - there are risks but I'm not a lawyer so I could be well wrong.
 
2013-03-05 02:32:32 PM
As said before, this thread is gonna be ugly.

Might as well get my opinion out there so that some beatings can start:

The surrogate was utterly in the wrong here.  As a surrogate the service she was providing was more or less "uterus-for-hire".  It is not up to her to make any decisions about that service except for as it relates to her own personal health and well-being.  Which was not threatened in any way.  In addition, she is clearly in breach of contract despite the fact that birth abnormalities are ambiguously defined; any reasonable judge is going to agree that severe brain deformaties and the liklihood of lifetime care would fall into that range.

The $15K counter-offer was, at worse, greedy and at best stupid.

If she was not ready to have an abortion then she should not have taken money and signed a contract that put her into a position where she agreed (by signing that contract) to do so.

She is the one in the wrong here.  She is not a hero.  She is an idiot.
 
2013-03-05 02:33:17 PM

namegoeshere: They had three children but needed MORE to the extent that they would go through surrogacy? WTF?? Why not shower love on the three you have, or adopt needy kids who are already here?

Selfish parents. I wonder how your three feel about not being enough for you. Baby hoarders.


This. Jebus people, just get a damn dog.
 
2013-03-05 02:33:24 PM

Strolpol: Yeah, this is one for the bioethicists to handle.


Seems pretty straight forward to me.  When it's genetics v. environment in custody cases, the courts have pretty much entirely sided with genetics.  The baby belongs to the couple.  However the surrogate's body does not belong to the couple.  So it is up to the surrogate to make the final call on the abortion and it is up to the genetic parents to do what they want after it was born.  So I guess that makes the surrogate a kidnapper.

If you want messy, contact the "anonymous" (I'm sure there are records somewhere) egg donor and have her petition for rights.  Do it to set the precedent, or at least for the lulz.
 
2013-03-05 02:33:46 PM
They did have a clause in the contract about abortion, which she agreed to, but then got out of adhering to it on the grounds that it didn't specify what constituted a serious birth defect.

I had mixed feelings reading about this story. At first I assumed that the surrogate would be in the right, but as I read more and more I became much less sure of that. The natural parent(s) have already had experience of 2 children with health issues from premature birth, and genuinely wanted to avert suffering. I can understand that the surrogate's instincts took over at some point, but she still couldn't cope with bringing up the kid herself after all that. Given the condition the child has ended up in, I do think the natural parents were making the right choice. But of course it is also right that they can't force a surrogate to go through an abortion - she would be unbearably traumatised by that I think. It seems like a lose-lose situation. If the surrogate had to care for the child herself after it was born, and watch it suffer through painful surgeries, she may have ended up understanding what the donor family were trying to do.

And I don't believe half of the stories I hear about this or that badly afflicted child being a "ray of light" or whatever. There comes some point where you have to query the quality of life that they have. It's natural for a parent to feel an irresistible urge to nurture and protect, more often than not, and modern medicine means that many children will have miserable lives dragged out longer because of this. I'm not saying I know where the line can be drawn, just that the donor parents did have a valid point in trying to prevent suffering.
 
2013-03-05 02:34:34 PM
Holy complex legal issue, batman!

On one hand; you got surrogate mom, who has womb right-of-way. And on the other hand; you got the lady who provided the egg. In the middle, you've got a child with severe issues.

/ the only ones who win in situations like this are the lawyers
 
2013-03-05 02:34:43 PM

ACunningPlan: I don't see how that type of clause could be enforce - there are risks but I'm not a lawyer so I could be well wrong.


Abortion before 24 weeks is actually less risky to the mother's life and health than childbirth. The idea that it was risky to the surrogate would have been a bad argument to make.
 
2013-03-05 02:35:36 PM

goatleggedfellow: The letter describes how the parents tried to convince Kelley to change her mind. Their three children were born prematurely, and two of them had to spend months in the hospital and still had medical problems. They wanted something better for this child.

Nature/God is telling you to stop having kids. Take the farking hint. You should have figured out the score after the second kid.

Not done with the article, but I hate everyone involved. Not sure how I'll feel by the end.


...and in one more paragraph it all turns upside-down again.
 
2013-03-05 02:36:21 PM
PS I would have much more sympathy for the surrogate if she was keeping the baby herself. As it is, she just seems to have been self-indulgent rather than anything else.
 
2013-03-05 02:37:40 PM

abfalter:  As a surrogate the service she was providing was more or less "uterus-for-hire". It is not up to her to make any decisions about that service except for as it relates to her own personal health and well-being.

You don't think the decision to have an abortion or carry the baby to term relates to her own personal health and well-being?

abfalter: As said before, this thread is gonna be ugly.


And we'll all look back at your post as the first place it started turning ugly.
 
2013-03-05 02:39:38 PM
www.allthatsepic.com

"You broke baby.  It's OK, I fix it."
"You can't fix down syndrome."

DNRTFA
 
2013-03-05 02:39:54 PM
Single mom with 2 kids tries to extort family for $15,000.  What's the issue here?
 
2013-03-05 02:39:59 PM
That story is a doozy all right.  I don't think I can make any real judgement at all but honestly I feel like that little girl IS going to suffer and that bothers me most.  I hope she gets all the comfort care she needs.
 
2013-03-05 02:40:00 PM
Strolpol:
You'd think they'd have something in the contract for this, but then again, could you legally enforce a contract to require an abortion in the event of medical issues?

Seems to me the contract should have language along the lines of "if birth defects are evident during the legal abortion period, host agrees to either have an abortion or raise the child herself.

That way you're not forcing anyone to abort anything if it's against their moral code, but you're also not removing decisionmaking rights from the parents.
 
2013-03-05 02:40:22 PM

Strolpol: The Onion is prophetic: In one view, she's a saint who fought at great personal sacrifice for an unborn child whose own parents did not want her to live. In another view, she recklessly absconded with someone else's child and brought into the world a baby who faces serious medical challenges when that wasn't her decision to make.

....wow.  That whole story is one hell of a clusterfark, and I predict this thread is going to be ugly.

Yeah, this is one for the bioethicists to handle.

You'd think they'd have something in the contract for this, but then again, could you legally enforce a contract to require an abortion in the event of medical issues?

/honestly people, just friggin' adopt
//it doesn't matter if your genetic codes are a part of a kid or not


FTFA: "Fishman reminded Kelley that she'd signed a contract, agreeing to "abortion in case of severe fetus abnormality." '

When it came to actually doing it, she couldn't bring herself to terminate.
 
2013-03-05 02:40:24 PM

TV's Vinnie: Why would the babby want to defect? Isn't the Cold War over?


The birth parents just wanted the baby to defect from the womb - early.
 
2013-03-05 02:40:29 PM

ringersol: TFA: "I told them it wasn't their decision to play God."

I have a hard time wrapping my head around just how much selective processing has to be going on, for that woman, in that situation, to make that argument.


All of it?
 
2013-03-05 02:41:09 PM
Fark Lawyers: Under Roe v. Wade, wouldn't the clause of the contract compelling an abortion against the will of the woman who owns the body in question be invalid?
 
2013-03-05 02:41:17 PM
The couple hiring the surrogate already has three kids. They didn't even use the mom's egg, they got an anonymous donor's egg! Then the surrogate goes all holier-than-thou and yet doesn't even plan on keeping or caring for this child that *must* be carried to term by gods will. The frankenstein child is born with multiple spleens neither of which work, an unfinished brain, a heart that must be operated on ten times to live past the age of six months and essentially no chance to *walk*, *talk* or *use their hands*. AWESOME!

The only true heroes in this story are the adoptive parents who are willing to do what they can to care for this child that no one wants to keep but for some reason must be born and will die within a few years after an untold amount of suffering and anguish.

/Two healthy daughters
//So damn lucky and grateful
 
2013-03-05 02:41:32 PM
It doesn't look good on the handmaid when she delivers a shredder.
 
2013-03-05 02:41:36 PM

tricycleracer: She has a birth defect called, where the brain fails to completely divide into distinct hemispheres. She has, which means many of her internal organs, such as her liver and stomach, are in the wrong places. She has at least two spleens, neither of which works properly. Her head is very small, her right ear is misshapen, she has a cleft lip and a cleft palate, and a long list of complex heart defects, among other problems.

That's one hell of a fixer-upper.


Answers to "Lucky."

/ducks
 
2013-03-05 02:41:37 PM

goatleggedfellow: The letter describes how the parents tried to convince Kelley to change her mind. Their three children were born prematurely, and two of them had to spend months in the hospital and still had medical problems. They wanted something better for this child.

Nature/God is telling you to stop having kids. Take the farking hint. You should have figured out the score after the second kid.


This is a really good point.  They really do come across as either dumbasses, or jackasses.  But some sort of asses for sure.
 
2013-03-05 02:41:42 PM

namegoeshere: They had three children but needed MORE to the extent that they would go through surrogacy? WTF?? Why not shower love on the three you have, or adopt needy kids who are already here?

Selfish parents. I wonder how your three feel about not being enough for you. Baby hoarders.


And the "selfless" surrogate who went around pimping her womb on a schedule so she wouldn't be pregnant during the summer, but could make some solid cash... who then went on Medicare and assistance to carry to term a damned near doomed pregnancy and give that kid to someone entirely unrelated to the initial fiasco.

Everyone in this story sucks. (Well, except the kid who was unfortunately born in this mess and the people who took said kid and cleaned up the mess of the initial selfish and obnoxious people.)
 
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