If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Duluth News Tribune)   Apparently deciding that his application to join the League of Supervillians just wasn't strong enough; WI Gov. tries to sneak language into a budget bill that will make it easier for "rent to own" shops to rip off the mathematically illiterate   (duluthnewstribune.com) divider line 66
    More: Sad, League of Supervillians, Wisconsin Gov., government budget, Wisconsin, Rent-A-Center, Glenn Grothman, Milwaukee County, Scott Walker  
•       •       •

13049 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Mar 2013 at 12:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-03-05 12:25:38 PM
13 votes:
Generation_D: "Is it the government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?"

No.  It's the government's job to protect the free market from opportunists, charlatans, hucksters, the usurious, etc.  The functional free market, the one that returns results for people other than snake-oil salesmen, monopolists and robber-barons, is not natural. It exists only because of regulations that ensure things like a reasonable expectation of fairness, transparency between the participants, no fraud, etc.  Absent those attributes, you get shiat like snake-oil, balloon payments and plaster of paris in your bread and people just withdraw from the market as much as is possible.

So it really has nothing to do with the stupid or the poor.  It has to to do with the smart people who will take one look at a rental market that has devolved into 'maximization' schemes and tricks and catches and say "fark that" and opt-out, harming net economic activity.
2013-03-05 11:42:06 AM
6 votes:
FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.  CSB follows:

Back in October, the distaffbopper was scheduled to get her right hip replaced.  We needed a lift chair so that after her surgery she could get up with minimal strain on the hip, at least until it was healed.  Our health insurance, which is actually pretty damned good, wouldn't pay for it.  It cost something between $600 to $1000 for a lift chair.  I didn't want to pay that much for something we'd only need for, what, a month, maybe two?

So we got one from Rent-A-Center.  Cost us about $150 a month to rent it, so we were only going to spend about $300 instead of at least twice that.

Turns out, we ended up taking it back after only 1 month because our neighbor's mother had one she wanted to sell cheap, so we bought that one.

Now, I wouldn't go a rent to own place to get something I'd want to keep on a permanent basis, because you end up screwed on the final price, but for something temporary like that, it's actually not a bad deal.
2013-03-05 12:09:45 PM
5 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


No, it's actually their job to educate them not to be stupid in the first place.  But here we are.
2013-03-05 01:42:58 PM
4 votes:

Silverstaff: We have a word for being "mathematically illiterate", the word is "innumerate".

Look it up, actual word.


And a useful one, as well. It was coined by Doug Hofstadter, back before a lot of you were born, I'd wager. Later, John Allen Paulos wrote a very good book, Innumeracy, describing the defect and detailing its effects upon our society.

As for TFA, the hubbub over "interest rates" just drags the discussion into a quagmire of "that word - I do not think it means what you think it means." What is needed is a simple requirement that ALL CONTRACTS for sale or rental of items contain the following statement: "The item you are acquiring has a (retail price)/(estimated value) of $xxx.xx. If you make all payments per this contract, you will have paid a total of $yyyy.yy." Anyone who argues with that requirement, I can GUARANTEE is not someone with whom you want to business.
2013-03-05 12:36:36 PM
4 votes:
We have a word for being "mathematically illiterate", the word is "innumerate".

Look it up, actual word.
2013-03-05 12:34:02 PM
4 votes:
When I was a junior in high school I was doing my schedule for my senior year.  I only needed three classes to graduate (my class only needed like 21.5 credits to graduate, but the next class needed like 24.5, so the entire school model changed allowing my class to get the vast majority of our credits saving just the senior only options for our senior years), but I had to have six classes each semester, and since one of the classes I needed was year long, I really needed to pad out my schedule.  One of the classes I picked to pad out my schedule was Math of Money.  My friends laughed at me for taking that class, saying "If you know how to sell something for $3.93 and someone hands you a $10 bill and you can make change then what good will that class do you?" I laughed and said "Course filler, easy A, what the hell do I care?"

Then I took the course.  It actually covered stuff like why you don't do rent to own.  Looking back, while it was only an elective, not even accepted as a math credit, I think it should be a required course for all high school students.  Hell, in the long run it did more for me than having to memorize all those bloody quotes from 'Romeo and Juliet.
2013-03-05 12:24:28 PM
4 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Not at all. It is, however, the government's job to protect people from one another.

No matter how stupid the victim, or how clever or well established the perpetrator.
2013-03-05 11:40:36 AM
4 votes:
I remember back in school, a rent-to-own shop was at the heart of a case used for teaching about contracts that were invalid due to unconscionability. They're worse than pawn shops and payday loans.
2013-03-05 10:54:49 AM
4 votes:
Christ, what an asshole.
2013-03-05 12:59:13 PM
3 votes:
Disclosure is the enemy of free enterprise only when you are looking to cheat and swindle.

Disclose, and let the market decide who they want to do business with. It's pretty much in keeping with sound business practice, and encourages businesses to engage in ethical behavior, and be rewarded in the marketplace.

But somehow, I'm certain, there is someone out there who will complain that it hurts the job creators, and capitalism at its core...
2013-03-05 12:21:41 PM
3 votes:

LargeCanine: So?

We should stop treating people like children who need the gov't to act like a parent.


Yeah.  And if grandma wants to pay $400k for dance lessons, so be it.  Con men are just bootstrappy entrepreneurs.
2013-03-05 04:00:40 PM
2 votes:

busy chillin': Thunderpipes: Walker's legislation would spell out the exact cost, in ways stupid poor people can understand. Would cap the amount they could charge. Would get revenue from the businesses themselves.

How is this in any way at all, bad? It is better than it was. I wish liberals would think instead of cry.

First sentence of TFA:

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has quietly tucked provisions into his executive budget that would free rent-to-own businesses from Wisconsin's consumer protection act, ensuring they wouldn't have to disclose what industry opponents say are exorbitant interest rates.

reading is hard?


To provide fair consideration: Thunderpipes is ignorant and stupid.
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-03-05 03:34:13 PM
2 votes:

Magorn: busy chillin': amo: busy chillin':

And now you know how easy it is to misread these things, even if you are financially literate. It's $141.11 for each of 24 bi-weekly payments.

so $6,773.28?

holy sheeeeit!

Vinne Da Mook, who's currently doing 20 years at Sing-Sing for loan-sharking, just read that and said "motherfarker"


It's been the main role of Government since the Regan administration to give businesses the right to do stuff like this along with the right to cover it up.
2013-03-05 03:20:40 PM
2 votes:
It's nice to see that only the regular cadre of scumbags is in this thread defending governor Scumbag. I wonder if they ever notice that they make *no* converts?
2013-03-05 03:15:46 PM
2 votes:

Thunderpipes: Walker's legislation would spell out the exact cost, in ways stupid poor people can understand. Would cap the amount they could charge. Would get revenue from the businesses themselves.

How is this in any way at all, bad? It is better than it was. I wish liberals would think instead of cry.


First sentence of TFA:

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has quietly tucked provisions into his executive budget that would free rent-to-own businesses from Wisconsin's consumer protection act, ensuring they wouldn't have to disclose what industry opponents say are exorbitant interest rates.

reading is hard?
2013-03-05 01:54:20 PM
2 votes:
He is nothing more than a Koch sucker.
2013-03-05 01:48:36 PM
2 votes:

VendorXeno: Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?

Stupid people aren't being protected, "from themselves." They're being protected from greedy, unethical assholes who would try to take advantage of the fact that they're stupid to cheat them out of money. And do you really have to ask whether or not that's a good idea? If so, you don't need to be voting.


This.

Fleecing the poor doen't grow the GDP, it hurts a nation by eating away at it's base. So a good government makes it hard for the scammers to operate.

/on the other hand, a bad government (see Walker) turns off the light of regulation so the prey won't see the predators coming.
2013-03-05 01:17:12 PM
2 votes:
Lots of folks are seemingly defending the RTO shops under the guise of "well, if the idiots who rent stuff are too stupid to understand, blah blah blah" which I find disturbing. There is NOTHING good about the way these shiatheads run a business. Just because some people are easier to rip off than others doesn't mean businesses should be allowed to rip 'em off, let alone encouraged to do so. Their whole business model is predatory and for that alone, I wish every last one of 'em would go out of business. Maybe the majority of their customers are clueless about interest rates, ultimate cost of a good, etc. That doesn't excuse the fact that these greedy shiats are bloodsucking vampires when it comes to the poor.

As far as Walker inserting that little clause into his bill, wow, that's a shock. Mister "I don't give a rip" for the poor strikes again. What a complete ass he is. Can't believe the morons in my home state re-elected him after the recall election. They deserve whatever they get ...and he's just the man to do it to them.
2013-03-05 12:53:15 PM
2 votes:
Some of you dudes must have skipped out on Econ and History in high school, there are reasons that measures are in place for the "government to protect the public" from con men and snake oil salesmen. This stuff doesn't just pop up overnight without precedent.

Every human out there is interested in their own well being and (generally) accumulation of wealth. Many will gladly take yours if you aren't armed with the experience or education to protect yourself. I don't think any attempts to publicize this behavior (eg RTO publishing interest rates) is a bad thing.

I know many here carry the attitude that you and you alone are responsible for protecting yourself from the unscrupulous, which ultimately is absolutely true, but I don't get why that makes any attempt to mitigate such people a horrible thing.
2013-03-05 12:44:18 PM
2 votes:

Phineas: Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?

Pretty much came here to say this.   If you don't like the terms, don't sign the contract.  If the terms of the contract are ridiculous and the fees exorbitant , then people will stop utilizing the services.  People stop utilizing the service, company goes out of business.

If you want to change it, let capitalism play out.  If you run your business in such a way that makes it unattractive to consumers, you will go out of business.  If your customers are stupid, then you stand to rake in the $$$.

Government intervention on behalf of the stupid has become pretty standard though, which is why liberals have flourished.


The whole point of this is that the terms are NOT spelled out in the contracts.  Capitalism can only play out when the consumer knows what they're signing.
2013-03-05 12:41:01 PM
2 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Well, I don't know about it being their job, but stupid people tend to be a burden on the state sooner or later, so maybe it's in the government's self-interest to protect them from the most egregious mistakes.
2013-03-05 12:40:00 PM
2 votes:

Great Janitor: When I was a junior in high school I was doing my schedule for my senior year.  I only needed three classes to graduate (my class only needed like 21.5 credits to graduate, but the next class needed like 24.5, so the entire school model changed allowing my class to get the vast majority of our credits saving just the senior only options for our senior years), but I had to have six classes each semester, and since one of the classes I needed was year long, I really needed to pad out my schedule.  One of the classes I picked to pad out my schedule was Math of Money.  My friends laughed at me for taking that class, saying "If you know how to sell something for $3.93 and someone hands you a $10 bill and you can make change then what good will that class do you?" I laughed and said "Course filler, easy A, what the hell do I care?"

Then I took the course.  It actually covered stuff like why you don't do rent to own.  Looking back, while it was only an elective, not even accepted as a math credit, I think it should be a required course for all high school students.  Hell, in the long run it did more for me than having to memorize all those bloody quotes from 'Romeo and Juliet.


In VA it is now.  My son, (class of 2015) is the first class for whom a financial lteracy course is a graduation requirement
2013-03-05 12:31:22 PM
2 votes:

akula: Not to be a complete asshole, but if somebody isn't going to read the fine print or do some simple math there's ultimately not one thing you can do to keep that person from being taken for every dime they have. If your mission is to keep people from taking advantage of the stupid and lazy you're never going to have a moment's rest. You won't have any success either.


So- do you read every word of every update to every software EULA?  Do you have them reviewed by your legal council before clicking 'accept'?  No, of course not.  See, unless there are rules around the reasonableness of agreements, there's nothing protecting you.  If Apple took you for every penny, the rejoinder would be the same- it's your own damn fault for not reading the 44 pages of 8 point font before you said 'yes' to yet another iTunes update.

But there's a point where we need to inject reasonableness.  Yes, people are free to make all sorts of bad financial decisions- but the system also shouldn't enable people that prey on them.  A cap of 20% interest on any financial transaction is reasonable, IMO- if the risk is so high that more interest is needed, then the risk is too high to lend the money.

Now that said- the industry is correct that there aren't interest rates per se in the rent-to-own industry, any more than there are in the car rental industry.  But it's reasonable to stipulate that the monthly charge for an item can't be more than 20% of the value of the product new.  A 5 month ROI is a perfectly reasonable, even exceptional, rate of return.  That even goes for items that depreciate rapidly, like computers.
2013-03-05 12:26:12 PM
2 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Pretty much, yes. You should be very grateful, personally.
2013-03-05 12:26:03 PM
2 votes:
Oh, they're jealous of the title loan and payday loan people. That's all. They want their 1400% interest, too. What's wrong with that? It's not like they use obfuscatory practices in order to deceive people into using their service or anything.
2013-03-05 12:25:11 PM
2 votes:
So whom in his family owns these stores?
2013-03-05 12:18:29 PM
2 votes:

dittybopper: More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.


Not to be a complete asshole, but if somebody isn't going to read the fine print or do some simple math there's ultimately not one thing you can do to keep that person from being taken for every dime they have. If your mission is to keep people from taking advantage of the stupid and lazy you're never going to have a moment's rest. You won't have any success either.
2013-03-05 11:38:41 AM
2 votes:
Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?
2013-03-05 11:05:37 AM
2 votes:
If the name has "Scott" in it somewhere, they're probably an asshole.
2013-03-05 10:55:37 AM
2 votes:
No, Rick Scott has the market cornered on cartoonish super-villain governors.

s3.amazonaws.com
2013-03-05 09:13:57 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


No, but it's their job to protect them from con men who lure vulnerable people into a situation where they are then victimized financially. That's called fraud.
2013-03-05 07:34:34 PM
1 votes:

relcec: Gabrielmot: I read an article a while back (citation needed I know) which said that even though they were told upfront about the math and how bad a deal it was, something like 9/10 people who used a pay day loan service, still used the service.

yep.
there is nothing else.
an ex of mine was econ major at a great school and knew full well how awful those agreements were but she had no parents to turn to and didn't want to ask friends for money so she would take her car title down whenever some unexpected cost arose and pay it back when she got paid in two weeks because there was no other choice.
if you wanted to really help, you create a not for profit that would serve the poor.
writing the terms in red letters and 48 point font will never change the situation, that people have nothing else to turn to.


This.

One and only effing time I debated going to a payday place was right at the end of my SO being unexpectedly unemployed.  Something unexpected had to get paid ASAP, I'd been covering bills for both of us for a few months, and his first paycheck from his new job and my paycheck were just three days away.  Asked the guy who runs the store down the street from me if he knew any place that wouldn't f--k me over.  He asked how much I needed and pulled it out of his wallet.  Jesus f--king Christ, that was a huge weight off my back.  And I paid him back the morning after payday, first thing.

/could've asked a few people but just really couldn't bring myself to do it
//things are better now
2013-03-05 07:20:21 PM
1 votes:

Gabrielmot: I read an article a while back (citation needed I know) which said that even though they were told upfront about the math and how bad a deal it was, something like 9/10 people who used a pay day loan service, still used the service.


yep.
there is nothing else.
an ex of mine was econ major at a great school and knew full well how awful those agreements were but she had no parents to turn to and didn't want to ask friends for money so she would take her car title down whenever some unexpected cost arose and pay it back when she got paid in two weeks because there was no other choice.
if you wanted to really help, you create a not for profit that would serve the poor.
writing the terms in red letters and 48 point font will never change the situation, that people have nothing else to turn to.
2013-03-05 05:52:11 PM
1 votes:
And at least one of his own fellow Republicans in Wisconsin is caling him on his bullshiat, amazingly enough.
2013-03-05 04:39:58 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: dittybopper: dittybopper: Krieghund: dittybopper: FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But that doesn't mean the rent-to-own places shouldn't have to tell you what interest rate you're paying while you have those good for a short time.

I'm less worried about that, because I'm renting it, not purchasing it on credit.  Do you ask for the interest rate information when you rent a car or an apartment?

More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.

/My Army room-mate bought a whole bunch of stuff at a rent-to-own place.
//He wasn't overly math-literate.

The new federal  Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has a whole branch devoted to protecting servicemembers from the complex ecosystem of financial products and services that have grown up to rip off gullible service people (Holly Petraeus of all people is in charge).  They are seen as uniquely vulnerable population like children or the elderly because fo the frequency with which they are preyed on.  It's sickening, really when you realize how many business in this country have been created with the sole purpose of ripping off soldiers.


I know in my unit it's a standing order that if a Marine wants to make a major purchase (car, house, etc) he has to notify his command and a senior marine, be it a team leader, squad leader, pretty much anyone who has been in the area for awhile and isn't a complete idiot, accompanies him and reads the paperwork before he can sign anything. A good rule of thumb is that if they mention ANYTHING about "military financing" then the place is crooked. "Special financing for E-2s!" "Bring in your LES!" "No down payment for military!" all red flags. The military is a relatively easy target because we pretty much just don't handle finances at all, everything is paid for from our meals to where we live. Our pay is essentially just spending money. When we get out, we have never had to be careful with money so we don't know how. Hell, a large part of the separations and transitioning classes is basic finance stuff like how to make a budget, what renting something means, how to calculate interest, how to buy enough food for a month, etc. Its really weird that some guys who are brilliant at doing their jobs in the military get horribly screwed in the civilian world because they were gullible enough to take something at face value.

A friend of mine summed it up pretty nicely when he got out "Be careful when you get out, it feels like literally everyone is trying to fark you over, nothing is what it seems, and when you call them on it they get offended like you were the one doing something wrong."
2013-03-05 03:17:06 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Walker's legislation would spell out the exact cost, in ways stupid poor people can understand. Would cap the amount they could charge. Would get revenue from the businesses themselves.

How is this in any way at all, bad? It is better than it was. I wish liberals would think instead of cry.



Are you willfully stupid, a knee jerk "my team is always right" guy, or just a paid shill?  The "cap" in the article is double what the RENT TO OWN STORE charges to buy an item outright, which is whatever the fark they want it to be because ZERO percent of thier business is direct retail sales of new items
2013-03-05 02:50:29 PM
1 votes:
Buyer Beware or
Seller be Honest?
2013-03-05 02:33:13 PM
1 votes:

Danger Mouse: Jument: LargeCanine: So?

We should stop treating people like children who need the gov't to act like a parent.

I agree but recent history is full of example that the average person needs the government to act as their parent because they are too damn stupid to make a reasonable financial decision. And where does it end? Shouldd we disable the FDA and let consumers investigate their own food and drugs? Should we no longer require auto safety standards? Building codes?
At the end of the day, keeping people safe, both physically and financially, is cheaper for the tax payers in the long run. In theory, anyways.


I let a customer leave my store with a $2000 TV on the promise to pay me.  He doens't have a credit card so  the only gurantee I have is his signature. If I run my own credit check, he wont' pass.  So I know I am making a very high risk loan. I  also have to take into account wear and tear on an item, damage,  and if I have to actually repossess the item and  send Repo men into someone's home which is an added cost and liability.

Now Why can't I make a high profit?

Let's have a law too that outlaws what the guys on Pawn Stars do. Hell they're screwing people too. Right?


We do Dumbass.  There are laws on the books that pawnbrokers must offer "reasonable value" for the items they buy or take in pawn.  Why  because the law, unlike you , recognizes that people using the service of a pawn broker don;t have a lot of bargaining power due to their likely desperate straits.  SO the law limits how ruthlessly the pawnbroker can exploit them
2013-03-05 02:12:51 PM
1 votes:
I wonder how much the rent-to-not-own people paid him to add that to the bill?
2013-03-05 02:00:20 PM
1 votes:

Jument: LargeCanine: So?

We should stop treating people like children who need the gov't to act like a parent.

I agree but recent history is full of example that the average person needs the government to act as their parent because they are too damn stupid to make a reasonable financial decision. And where does it end? Shouldd we disable the FDA and let consumers investigate their own food and drugs? Should we no longer require auto safety standards? Building codes?
At the end of the day, keeping people safe, both physically and financially, is cheaper for the tax payers in the long run. In theory, anyways.



I let a customer leave my store with a $2000 TV on the promise to pay me.  He doens't have a credit card so  the only gurantee I have is his signature. If I run my own credit check, he wont' pass.  So I know I am making a very high risk loan. I  also have to take into account wear and tear on an item, damage,  and if I have to actually repossess the item and  send Repo men into someone's home which is an added cost and liability.

Now Why can't I make a high profit?

Let's have a law too that outlaws what the guys on Pawn Stars do. Hell they're screwing people too. Right?
2013-03-05 01:53:12 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Yes, now STFU.
2013-03-05 01:39:28 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: It's a bad idea to do that.

Why?

Because the people in question don't learn a lesson.

You will always have greedy, unethical assholes.  *ALWAYS*.


Learning a lesson is not the point of the regulation. Nor is it to eliminate all greedy assholes. It's to "regulate" them, to limit their behavior, to take away easy routes of exploitation. 

Your subsequent argument, that a person with this extra information is in no way improved because they didn't get it the first time from the more complex explanation shows such an amazing and profound lack of understanding regarding people and thinking that it shocks me. There is no on/off switch to being smart enough to grasp a concept. The more data, and the simpler the data, the easier it's going to be for many people to clue in, consciously, onto a concept they might not immediately be consciously aware of. That's why these agencies don't want to give them the simple, direct information. That's why there's any attempt to remove this legislation. If it were really as meaningless as you [have to ignore every rule of psychology or marketing to] believe then Walker would be wasting everyone's time even bothering with it. Of course, he doesn't think he is, and the rent to own places don't think he is. Why do you think he is? Because you haven't really thought about it.
2013-03-05 01:35:01 PM
1 votes:

LargeCanine: So?

We should stop treating people like children who need the gov't to act like a parent.


Having consumer protections in place that require a business to disclose their terms up-front in an understandable manner isn't treating people like children, it's preventing unscrupulous con artists from ripping people off. Nobody is suggesting that the government tell these people that they can't be stupid and get hosed by a rent-to-own store. It's still their decision to make, the law simply makes sure that they have all the information they need in order to make it. If they still choose to make a poor decision, then that's their problem. The ONLY reason to be against requiring this kind of disclosure is to allow dishonest business practices designed to intentionally deceive people.
2013-03-05 01:13:46 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: If you aren't smart enough to realize that a $50 payment for 24 months to own an item worth $400 retail isn't a good deal, then disclosing the actual interest rate really isn't going to help.


Then why waste time with the legislation? Of course it makes a difference.
2013-03-05 01:09:26 PM
1 votes:
If you let corporations grab all the money from the extreme poor, you are still going to be paying for them. You need rules to prevent all the money you are paying to support these poor people from disappearing.
2013-03-05 01:06:03 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Stupid people aren't being protected, "from themselves." They're being protected from greedy, unethical assholes who would try to take advantage of the fact that they're stupid to cheat them out of money. And do you really have to ask whether or not that's a good idea? If so, you don't need to be voting.
2013-03-05 01:03:35 PM
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Magorn: The new federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has a whole branch devoted to protecting servicemembers from the complex ecosystem of financial products and services that have grown up to rip off gullible service people (Holly Petraeus of all people is in charge). They are seen as uniquely vulnerable population like children or the elderly because fo the frequency with which they are preyed on. It's sickening, really when you realize how many business in this country have been created with the sole purpose of ripping off soldiers.

From a scumbags perspective, Soldiers make great victims:

Salaried job with an employment contract, you know they are going to get the money to pay you back and Security Clearance requirements mean that many/most servicemembers can't afford to tank their own credit rating mean dollar signs to predatory lenders and other unscrupulous businessmen.


That's actually the problem the US Military will not allow you to default on debts (they'll take it out of your paycheck)  and having too many debts/garnishements makes it diffuclt to get a security clearance which farks with overall military readiness as qualified, expensively trained soldiers can suddenly be inelegible to do their jobs.   From the Pentagon's perspective this isn't just a welfare of the troops thing, but an actual national security issue.
2013-03-05 12:56:24 PM
1 votes:
It's pretty well documented that all these ALEC governors want public ownership of anything and everything abolished so we all answer to their corporate puppeteers.  Apparently they're going for personal ownership now too.  Why anyone would still be on board with these privatizing dicks is beyond me.  Self fulfilling prophecy to need those guns to protect against the government you elected I suppose.  Idiots to the 10th power.  Personally I'd like to see everyone involved publicly hanged as the traitors that they are.
2013-03-05 12:52:25 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: The new federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has a whole branch devoted to protecting servicemembers from the complex ecosystem of financial products and services that have grown up to rip off gullible service people (Holly Petraeus of all people is in charge). They are seen as uniquely vulnerable population like children or the elderly because fo the frequency with which they are preyed on. It's sickening, really when you realize how many business in this country have been created with the sole purpose of ripping off soldiers.


From a scumbags perspective, Soldiers make great victims:

Salaried job with an employment contract, you know they are going to get the money to pay you back and Security Clearance requirements mean that many/most servicemembers can't afford to tank their own credit rating mean dollar signs to predatory lenders and other unscrupulous businessmen.
2013-03-05 12:45:59 PM
1 votes:

untaken_name: Mikey1969: The RTO places are claiming that they don't have to disclose anywhere that in the long run, you pay a minimum of 3x what the item is actually worth.

So, they're like mortgages, then?


I don't know... WHen we were last looking at houses, the mortgage people were pretty up front about the price of the house, the total we'd be payng in interest, all of that stuff. I haven't seen any shady ones yet, but maybe I've gotten lucky. I do have a friend that's a realtor, so I've used his personal recommendations, as opposed to just opening the phone book, closing my eyes and pointing at a name.
2013-03-05 12:44:29 PM
1 votes:

Elandriel: If the name has "Scott" in it somewhere, they're probably an asshole.


Hey, fark you, my middle name is Scott.

On second thought, I'm a complete asshole most of the time, carry on with your studies, they seem to be accurate.
2013-03-05 12:43:49 PM
1 votes:

relcec: if tis furniture the item is often osb with a shiatty veneer.
more like 25x times its worth.


LOL, yeah, I was basing it on electronics. Hell, I'd buy my furniture on the WalMart clearance racks before I'd buy it at a RTO store...
2013-03-05 12:39:27 PM
1 votes:

Carn: Is he trying to go for some kind of dickhead record?


No, he is really just an ignorant ass who will dance for coin.  Any money or promise of "fame" later on will get his loyalty.
2013-03-05 12:38:58 PM
1 votes:
The Pavlovian response is hilarious. "Scott Walker mentioned in article headline, must defend him!"

Next up, defend the guy who sold your kids ice cream topped with his semen. It's not the governments place to regulate what ingredients he uses or whether he has to disclose them. And if it's good enough for you, it's good enough for your kids!
2013-03-05 12:38:16 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?

And so it begins...


It is government's job to protect it's citizens from predators.
But,,, we are now raping the sheeple, not just shearing them.
2013-03-05 12:35:39 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


And so it begins...
2013-03-05 12:33:53 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: dittybopper: Krieghund: dittybopper: FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But that doesn't mean the rent-to-own places shouldn't have to tell you what interest rate you're paying while you have those good for a short time.

I'm less worried about that, because I'm renting it, not purchasing it on credit.  Do you ask for the interest rate information when you rent a car or an apartment?

More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.

/My Army room-mate bought a whole bunch of stuff at a rent-to-own place.
//He wasn't overly math-literate.


The new federal  Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has a whole branch devoted to protecting servicemembers from the complex ecosystem of financial products and services that have grown up to rip off gullible service people (Holly Petraeus of all people is in charge).  They are seen as uniquely vulnerable population like children or the elderly because fo the frequency with which they are preyed on.  It's sickening, really when you realize how many business in this country have been created with the sole purpose of ripping off soldiers.
2013-03-05 12:33:26 PM
1 votes:

WorldKnowledge: So let's see if I have this straight - the story points out that if you wasted your free education in America, it is some how the governments fault that you are stupid enough to pay $1,500 for a $150 sofa . . .


Not at all. Looks like you wasted YOUR free education in America, interestingly enough.

What the story points out is that the RTO industry wants to be able to hide their ridiculous interest rates from the public, and Walker's on board with that. Of course, if you couldn't read the story, I'm not sure what you'll do with a rebuttal post, but we can always hope.
2013-03-05 12:31:02 PM
1 votes:
When I sold cars to sub-prime lenders, the financial institutions we worked with took those debts into account when determining their credit, so I think they should be covered under that bill as I understand it. Yes, most of my customers fell into that category: poor, usually receiving some level of government assistance, and extremely math-challenged.

When they used to ask what the down payment would be and I'd tell them 10-20%, they all got this blank look on their faces. It used to be real fun to explain how an eight thousand dollar car could become closer to a twelve to fourteen thousand dollar car. For most, it didn't matter. They only planned on keeping the car for a few months anyway. Most would make one or two payments and then stopped paying, knowing they'd have another month or two before the car was repoed.

We had families that would go through this cycle that as each child reached the legal age, they'd start getting the utilities and stuff turned on in their names, as the previous sibling had defaulted. Same with cars. First mom, and then the oldest kids on down would finance a car for a few months, everybody in the house (and probably the block) would run 'em into the ground, and by the time the repo guys got hold of them they were ready for the scrap yard.

A year later, the next kid in line would show up looking for a car and the process continued. Lather, rinse, repeat...
2013-03-05 12:29:36 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


No of course not, which is why we also have no laws against Usury, Fraud or Confidence schemes, because after all these things only hurt the stupid so it's no skin off the government's nose.

at least 75% of all laws ever passed could be fairly described as "protecting the stupid from themselves"
2013-03-05 12:28:14 PM
1 votes:

akula: dittybopper: More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.

Not to be a complete asshole, but if somebody isn't going to read the fine print or do some simple math there's ultimately not one thing you can do to keep that person from being taken for every dime they have. If your mission is to keep people from taking advantage of the stupid and lazy you're never going to have a moment's rest. You won't have any success either.


FTFA:
Rent-to-own businesses insist their contracts aren't credit transactions, and the state's consumer act shouldn't apply to them.

Opponents contend the businesses prey on the poor and charge exorbitant interest rates similar to payday lenders; they maintain people deserve to see exactly what they're paying for when they sign rent-to-own contracts.


In other words, most people are just trying to get the farking fine print in there in the first place. The RTO places are claiming that they don't have to disclose anywhere that in the long run, you pay a minimum of 3x what the item is actually worth.

Jesus, nobody seems to have read the second paragraph here...
2013-03-05 12:26:00 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: No, Rick Scott has the market cornered on cartoonish super-villain governors.


The crypt-keeper would like a word with you.

blogs-images.forbes.com
2013-03-05 12:25:55 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: I remember back in school, a rent-to-own shop was at the heart of a case used for teaching about contracts that were invalid due to unconscionability. They're worse than pawn shops and payday loans.


Yep, I recall that "note case" very well  IIRC it was a DC rent-to-own place and what upped it from merely sleazy to actually inconscionable was that this one "cross collateralized" the purchase you were making now, with everything you'd ever bought from the place, even if the other stuff was paid in full.  meaning you missed a payment on the current item and they could come take ALL your stuff.  Apparently that used to be SOP for Rent to own shops,  now they just charge you $2100 at $30/mo+ interest for a laptop you could go over to best buy and pay $300 for.  Even poor and stupid people know better than to use rent-to-own, it's clientele are almost exclusively the desperate instead,  people who know thier kid needs a computer to do well in HS but for whom having $300 all in one place at the same time is a near-impossibility
2013-03-05 12:25:28 PM
1 votes:

Elandriel: If the name has "Scott" in it somewhere, they're probably an asshole.


He's no true Scott, man.
2013-03-05 12:24:19 PM
1 votes:
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has quietly tucked provisions into his executive budget that would free rent-to-own businesses from Wisconsin's consumer protection act, ensuring they wouldn't have to disclose what industry opponents say are exorbitant interest rates.

Gee, a republitard wanting to fark the poor over and rape rape them for more cash for his bloated fat republican toadies? Who would have thunk it? Way to stay classy you dick. I guess in your mind, if we don't know, it doesn't hurt so much when you shove it up our asses all the way to the tonsils.
2013-03-05 11:54:12 AM
1 votes:

dittybopper: FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.


I don't think anyone would argue that point. But that doesn't mean the rent-to-own places shouldn't have to tell you what interest rate you're paying while you have those good for a short time.
 
Displayed 66 of 66 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report