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(Duluth News Tribune)   Apparently deciding that his application to join the League of Supervillians just wasn't strong enough; WI Gov. tries to sneak language into a budget bill that will make it easier for "rent to own" shops to rip off the mathematically illiterate   (duluthnewstribune.com) divider line 271
    More: Sad, League of Supervillians, Wisconsin Gov., government budget, Wisconsin, Rent-A-Center, Glenn Grothman, Milwaukee County, Scott Walker  
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13049 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Mar 2013 at 12:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-05 11:56:46 PM

Moonfisher: I used to do in- home training for people with mild mental disabilities. They were living on their own, paying their bills, taking the bus to work or shop, and it was my job to help them improve those skills so they could live on their own instead of in state institutions. Every one of them had a house full of rent-to-own furniture. One skill I always prioritized was acquiring cheap, decent items and getting out of those awful contracts.


Nope, nope, can't protect these people from predatory capitalism.
 
2013-03-06 12:20:28 AM

Arumat: As for the customer, I'd rather educate him and/or get him back on his feet instead of giving him a criminal record, jail time, and fines and making the situation much worse for all involved.  After all, if he goes to jail or stays unemployed he gets supported by tax dollars right?


Yes, but that's a whole 'nother subject. I am against incarceration as a means of punishment - it doesn't provide any restitution to the victim of the crime, isn't productive in any way, doesn't teach by logic or example but by pain avoidance, which is ineffective, etc.  Additionally, I find it reprehensible that the victim is then taxed to pay to support the person who wronged them. I'm just not sure that the man will be educated by receiving a pardon - i know he made a bad decision because he signed that contract which is obviously a bad decision. Receiving a get-out-of-contract-free card is not as likely to teach him not to sign contracts as it is to teach him how to get out of future contracts, should he so desire. Granted, those are assumptions, but they're based on personal experience - I've made bad decisions before, and so have many of my friends and family. I didn't learn from the ones whose consequences I was spared. Maybe that's just me, I can't say.
 
2013-03-06 01:11:30 AM

untaken_name: Arumat: As for the customer, I'd rather educate him and/or get him back on his feet instead of giving him a criminal record, jail time, and fines and making the situation much worse for all involved.  After all, if he goes to jail or stays unemployed he gets supported by tax dollars right?

Yes, but that's a whole 'nother subject. I am against incarceration as a means of punishment - it doesn't provide any restitution to the victim of the crime, isn't productive in any way, doesn't teach by logic or example but by pain avoidance, which is ineffective, etc.  Additionally, I find it reprehensible that the victim is then taxed to pay to support the person who wronged them. I'm just not sure that the man will be educated by receiving a pardon - i know he made a bad decision because he signed that contract which is obviously a bad decision. Receiving a get-out-of-contract-free card is not as likely to teach him not to sign contracts as it is to teach him how to get out of future contracts, should he so desire. Granted, those are assumptions, but they're based on personal experience - I've made bad decisions before, and so have many of my friends and family. I didn't learn from the ones whose consequences I was spared. Maybe that's just me, I can't say.


I guess we're mostly on the same page then.  I just hate to see the legal system used as a weapon.
 
2013-03-06 01:44:58 AM

Arumat: I guess we're mostly on the same page then.  I just hate to see the legal system used as a weapon.


Yeah, I'd say we are. I hate that too - especially since it's used as a weapon against victims of crime as well as perpetrators.
 
2013-03-06 01:53:50 AM

Gabrielmot: Using two of my friends as a sample for why this is, here's an interesting scenario. One guy makes *half* as much as the second guy, but has two years salary put away because he's frugal and good with money. The second guy is constantly borrowing money from the first guy (and me) because he can't make the payments on his car, apartment, etc. but still miraculously has enough money to eat out, drink, buy a new cell phone every six months, etc.

The second guy gets sound financial advice from me (who makes about triple what he does) *and* from the guy who makes about *half* what he does.

-He promptly ignores both of us and has a dismal credit score, no bank balance at the end of the month, and no retirement savings as a result. All three of us came from poor childhood backgrounds.


You seem to think there's only one idiot in this tale.
 
2013-03-06 02:08:18 AM

Arumat: I'll admit, I can see where you're coming from. It is in the contract that the customer is responsible for returning the item(s) in question. On the other hand, I can also see hammering the RTO owner with contempt of court for attempting legal action and wasting everybody's time when the simple solution is right in front of him. If the TV is so important to him that he can show up in court to try to get an indictment for grand theft, he can grab one of his employees and the company truck and go get it. Nowhere did it say anything along the lines of the customer saying that he "would not" return the television, just that he "could not".


I guess the RTO owner thought that an indictment would motivate the renter to find a buddy with a truck and bring the thing back.  Perhaps the criminal process was cheaper for him than a civil process.  But the grand jury saw through that abuse of  the criminal system.

Plaintiffs in breach of contract suits have a duty to mitigate their damages.  If the RTO owner had the right to repo, he had a duty to attempt it despite a contract putting the onus on the renter.

This boiled down to "a matter of principle."  It was more important for the RTO to be right than to be happy.
 
2013-03-06 02:52:05 AM

Magnanimous_J: nubzers: The military is a relatively easy target because we pretty much just don't handle finances at all, everything is paid for from our meals to where we live. Our pay is essentially just spending money.


If I could ever live with myself for doing it, I would open a Honda or Suzuki motorcycle dealership right by a military base. I learned from selling cars that military people are as easy to put together as a 2 piece puzzle and they can get financing on ANYTHING. A decent salesperson could ether an 18 year old kid on a sport bike and close the deal in 10 minutes.


You would have to fight the other assholes who already do that kind of thing. They are literally everywhere and they ALWAYS snag idiots who think they have it all figured out.

CSB: There was one kid we had, 18 years old didn't have a license and never had a job before. His buddy takes him out to a VERY sleazy dealership ($500 cash if you bring in a friend and he buys a car, most of the cars are complete crap), and just like you said in about 10 minutes he was signing paperwork to buy a 2003 car with 100,000 miles on it for literally the same price as if it were brand new. The dealership told him that he didn't need a license to buy it, he just needed a friend to sign with him (which his best bud did), and give them his bank account info to set up a loan through them. So now he has a piece of crap for a brand new price, his buddy is the one who has to drive it for him, and the next day he decides he doesn't like it. So what does he do? He goes to a different dealership and trades it in for a different car (with the new dealership promising to return the car to the old dealership), gives THEM his bank account info and has the loan payments switched from the previous dealership to the new one. So he ended up with two cars in his name, only one loan, and the new dealership basically stealing the old car while the old dealership is screaming bloody murder to the command about grand theft auto. Best part? This all happened about a week before we deployed. Got it worked out, so now he is stuck with the original car he bought for an inflated price at 14% interest and no license so its sitting off base at a married guy's house. People are stupid, and his buddy got fried for taking him there to make a quick $500.
 
2013-03-06 06:01:02 AM

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


yes
 
2013-03-06 09:44:34 AM

relcec: busy chillin': 
they get literally nothing for their money with the lottery. nothing. and with money it is a lifetime of playing. the lottery, booze, and cigs are probably the biggest money sucks in existence for the poor. at least the booze gets you drunk though.


You think they get nothing (from playing the lottery). Many people get enjoyment and excitement...and people do win. And again...no signed legal contract binding them to play everyday.
 
2013-03-06 09:54:01 AM
I don't think I've ever seen Grothman and Walker disagree on anything.

They're both assholes.
 
2013-03-06 11:01:53 AM

busy chillin': You think they get nothing (from playing the lottery). Many people get enjoyment and excitement...and people do win. And again...no signed legal contract binding them to play everyday.


And yet you willingly do it every day. How much have you won in relation to what you've spent (in cash, not in excitement and enjoyment)?
 
2013-03-06 11:22:51 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: busy chillin': You think they get nothing (from playing the lottery). Many people get enjoyment and excitement...and people do win. And again...no signed legal contract binding them to play everyday.

And yet you willingly do it every day. How much have you won in relation to what you've spent (in cash, not in excitement and enjoyment)?


I don't play very often and am probably behind. But now Casinos? Boom, my wife and I up are probably up a couple grand, easy.

Ahhhh, you care how I spend my money.
 
2013-03-06 11:35:28 AM

busy chillin': Ahhhh, you care how I spend my money.


You can play lotto and go to the casino all you want for all I care. If you are going to do so, quit whining about how others spend their money.
 
2013-03-06 11:47:34 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: busy chillin': Ahhhh, you care how I spend my money.

You can play lotto and go to the casino all you want for all I care. If you are going to do so, quit whining about how others spend their money.


um what?
 
2013-03-06 02:22:01 PM

busy chillin': um what?


Well, there are people who are buying from rent to own places that charge high interest and you seem to have a major problem with this.
 
2013-03-06 03:12:54 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: busy chillin': um what?

Well, there are people who are buying from rent to own places that charge high interest and you seem to have a major problem with this.


I have a problem with the governor removing the full-disclosure aspects.

There have got to be more pressing and important issues in that state that they should be focusing on.
 
2013-03-06 03:22:58 PM
Scarrier is the last sentance... I am actually agreeing with Glen Grothman... I had to read it like 3 times but there it was plain as day.
 
2013-03-07 09:33:47 AM

busy chillin': I have a problem with the governor removing the full-disclosure aspects


Because math is hard.
 
2013-03-07 05:59:22 PM

busy chillin': I have a problem with the governor removing the full-disclosure aspects.


He's done that with about every law he's signed - straight from day one.
 
2013-03-07 09:57:48 PM
Looks like DIA is pro-fraud.
 
2013-03-08 05:09:26 AM

Kittypie070: Looks like DIA is pro-fraud.


What is fraudulent?
 
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