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(Duluth News Tribune)   Apparently deciding that his application to join the League of Supervillians just wasn't strong enough; WI Gov. tries to sneak language into a budget bill that will make it easier for "rent to own" shops to rip off the mathematically illiterate   (duluthnewstribune.com) divider line 271
    More: Sad, League of Supervillians, Wisconsin Gov., government budget, Wisconsin, Rent-A-Center, Glenn Grothman, Milwaukee County, Scott Walker  
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13051 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Mar 2013 at 12:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-05 10:54:49 AM  
Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-03-05 10:55:37 AM  
No, Rick Scott has the market cornered on cartoonish super-villain governors.

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-03-05 11:05:37 AM  
If the name has "Scott" in it somewhere, they're probably an asshole.
 
2013-03-05 11:26:44 AM  
That's been his style lately, he loaded the budget with a bunch of insane stuff that would be difficult to pass as a bill. For example removing the limitation on foreign ownership of large blocks of land so he can sell the state to China.
 
2013-03-05 11:38:41 AM  
Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?
 
2013-03-05 11:40:36 AM  
I remember back in school, a rent-to-own shop was at the heart of a case used for teaching about contracts that were invalid due to unconscionability. They're worse than pawn shops and payday loans.
 
2013-03-05 11:42:06 AM  
FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.  CSB follows:

Back in October, the distaffbopper was scheduled to get her right hip replaced.  We needed a lift chair so that after her surgery she could get up with minimal strain on the hip, at least until it was healed.  Our health insurance, which is actually pretty damned good, wouldn't pay for it.  It cost something between $600 to $1000 for a lift chair.  I didn't want to pay that much for something we'd only need for, what, a month, maybe two?

So we got one from Rent-A-Center.  Cost us about $150 a month to rent it, so we were only going to spend about $300 instead of at least twice that.

Turns out, we ended up taking it back after only 1 month because our neighbor's mother had one she wanted to sell cheap, so we bought that one.

Now, I wouldn't go a rent to own place to get something I'd want to keep on a permanent basis, because you end up screwed on the final price, but for something temporary like that, it's actually not a bad deal.
 
2013-03-05 11:48:37 AM  
Does Wisconsin have a lottery?
 
2013-03-05 11:54:12 AM  

dittybopper: FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.


I don't think anyone would argue that point. But that doesn't mean the rent-to-own places shouldn't have to tell you what interest rate you're paying while you have those good for a short time.
 
2013-03-05 12:06:51 PM  

Krieghund: dittybopper: FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But that doesn't mean the rent-to-own places shouldn't have to tell you what interest rate you're paying while you have those good for a short time.


I'm less worried about that, because I'm renting it, not purchasing it on credit.  Do you ask for the interest rate information when you rent a car or an apartment?
 
2013-03-05 12:08:38 PM  
Back in college I sold TVs at a now-defunct retailer -- we had a (at the time) massive 27" TV that sold for $699 -- with PA tax you were out the door for $740 or so.

A friend of mine got the exact same TV at the rent-to-own place for "just $20/week for 24 months." Yes, over $2,200 including tax.

The saddest part? He was only about three months from paying it off when he missed two payments and they came and repossessed it and he got nothing. When I say it was "saddest" it's because he was simply flabbergasted that such a thing could happen, as he didn't read his contract.

/Ripping Yard, Old Sod.
 
2013-03-05 12:09:45 PM  

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


No, it's actually their job to educate them not to be stupid in the first place.  But here we are.
 
2013-03-05 12:11:26 PM  

dittybopper: Krieghund: dittybopper: FTFY:
Proponents say the industry offers low-income people or people who need something for a short time a way to obtain goods.

That's actually true.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But that doesn't mean the rent-to-own places shouldn't have to tell you what interest rate you're paying while you have those good for a short time.

I'm less worried about that, because I'm renting it, not purchasing it on credit.  Do you ask for the interest rate information when you rent a car or an apartment?


More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.

/My Army room-mate bought a whole bunch of stuff at a rent-to-own place.
//He wasn't overly math-literate.
 
2013-03-05 12:15:16 PM  
villians

Does anyone else pronounce this vill-ee-ans like I do?
 
2013-03-05 12:15:39 PM  
He just wants Wisconsin to be a "right-to-rent" state
 
2013-03-05 12:17:31 PM  
So?

We should stop treating people like children who need the gov't to act like a parent.
 
2013-03-05 12:18:29 PM  

dittybopper: More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.


Not to be a complete asshole, but if somebody isn't going to read the fine print or do some simple math there's ultimately not one thing you can do to keep that person from being taken for every dime they have. If your mission is to keep people from taking advantage of the stupid and lazy you're never going to have a moment's rest. You won't have any success either.
 
2013-03-05 12:19:26 PM  

dittybopper: /My Army room-mate bought a whole bunch of stuff at a rent-to-own place.
//He wasn't overly math-literate.


America needs more people like that.
 
2013-03-05 12:19:33 PM  

Apparently deciding that his application to join the League of Supervillians just wasn't strong enough; WI Gov. tries to sneak language into a budget bill that will make it easier for "rent to own" shops to rip off the mathematically illiterate


How about the regular illiterate?
 
2013-03-05 12:21:03 PM  

Theaetetus: I remember back in school, a rent-to-own shop was at the heart of a case used for teaching about contracts that were invalid due to unconscionability. They're worse than pawn shops and payday loans.


Yep, read the same case. It was amazing how badly that couple got ripped off.
 
2013-03-05 12:21:41 PM  

LargeCanine: So?

We should stop treating people like children who need the gov't to act like a parent.


Yeah.  And if grandma wants to pay $400k for dance lessons, so be it.  Con men are just bootstrappy entrepreneurs.
 
2013-03-05 12:22:24 PM  

Theaetetus: I remember back in school, a rent-to-own shop was at the heart of a case used for teaching about contracts that were invalid due to unconscionability. They're worse than pawn shops and payday loans.


A friend of mine runs a local computer repair shop.

He forwarded me some interesting links about some malware he's had to deal with lately.

Apparently the Aaron's rent-to-own chain has got in trouble for putting rootkits in every computer they rented/sold.  The idea was that if somebody didn't pay up, they could remotely hack into the computer over the net and shut the computer down.

Problem is, that after the computer was finally paid in full (at the exorbitant rates they charge), they left the malware in there, and the backdoor it created.
 
2013-03-05 12:23:26 PM  

tricycleracer: LargeCanine: So?

We should stop treating people like children who need the gov't to act like a parent.

Yeah.  And if grandma wants to pay $400k for dance lessons, so be it.  Con men are just bootstrappy entrepreneurs.


Hmmm... no.
 
2013-03-05 12:24:19 PM  
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has quietly tucked provisions into his executive budget that would free rent-to-own businesses from Wisconsin's consumer protection act, ensuring they wouldn't have to disclose what industry opponents say are exorbitant interest rates.

Gee, a republitard wanting to fark the poor over and rape rape them for more cash for his bloated fat republican toadies? Who would have thunk it? Way to stay classy you dick. I guess in your mind, if we don't know, it doesn't hurt so much when you shove it up our asses all the way to the tonsils.
 
2013-03-05 12:24:28 PM  

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Not at all. It is, however, the government's job to protect people from one another.

No matter how stupid the victim, or how clever or well established the perpetrator.
 
2013-03-05 12:24:54 PM  
Is he trying to go for some kind of dickhead record?
 
2013-03-05 12:25:11 PM  
So whom in his family owns these stores?
 
2013-03-05 12:25:28 PM  

Elandriel: If the name has "Scott" in it somewhere, they're probably an asshole.


He's no true Scott, man.
 
2013-03-05 12:25:38 PM  
Generation_D: "Is it the government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?"

No.  It's the government's job to protect the free market from opportunists, charlatans, hucksters, the usurious, etc.  The functional free market, the one that returns results for people other than snake-oil salesmen, monopolists and robber-barons, is not natural. It exists only because of regulations that ensure things like a reasonable expectation of fairness, transparency between the participants, no fraud, etc.  Absent those attributes, you get shiat like snake-oil, balloon payments and plaster of paris in your bread and people just withdraw from the market as much as is possible.

So it really has nothing to do with the stupid or the poor.  It has to to do with the smart people who will take one look at a rental market that has devolved into 'maximization' schemes and tricks and catches and say "fark that" and opt-out, harming net economic activity.
 
2013-03-05 12:25:55 PM  

Theaetetus: I remember back in school, a rent-to-own shop was at the heart of a case used for teaching about contracts that were invalid due to unconscionability. They're worse than pawn shops and payday loans.


Yep, I recall that "note case" very well  IIRC it was a DC rent-to-own place and what upped it from merely sleazy to actually inconscionable was that this one "cross collateralized" the purchase you were making now, with everything you'd ever bought from the place, even if the other stuff was paid in full.  meaning you missed a payment on the current item and they could come take ALL your stuff.  Apparently that used to be SOP for Rent to own shops,  now they just charge you $2100 at $30/mo+ interest for a laptop you could go over to best buy and pay $300 for.  Even poor and stupid people know better than to use rent-to-own, it's clientele are almost exclusively the desperate instead,  people who know thier kid needs a computer to do well in HS but for whom having $300 all in one place at the same time is a near-impossibility
 
2013-03-05 12:26:00 PM  

Mugato: No, Rick Scott has the market cornered on cartoonish super-villain governors.


The crypt-keeper would like a word with you.

blogs-images.forbes.com
 
2013-03-05 12:26:03 PM  
Oh, they're jealous of the title loan and payday loan people. That's all. They want their 1400% interest, too. What's wrong with that? It's not like they use obfuscatory practices in order to deceive people into using their service or anything.
 
2013-03-05 12:26:12 PM  

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Pretty much, yes. You should be very grateful, personally.
 
2013-03-05 12:26:38 PM  
Every time I see a picture of Scott Walker his hair makes his head look crooked, then all I can think about is that corner from Anna Nicole Smith.
 
2013-03-05 12:27:38 PM  
So let's see if I have this straight - the story points out that if you wasted your free education in America, it is some how the governments fault that you are stupid enough to pay $1,500 for a $150 sofa . . .
 
2013-03-05 12:28:12 PM  
furniture in general is a massive rip off. 400-1000% margins. makes an apple laptop look like bargin.
 
2013-03-05 12:28:12 PM  
It's just gotta burn that he won the recall.
 
2013-03-05 12:28:14 PM  

akula: dittybopper: More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.

Not to be a complete asshole, but if somebody isn't going to read the fine print or do some simple math there's ultimately not one thing you can do to keep that person from being taken for every dime they have. If your mission is to keep people from taking advantage of the stupid and lazy you're never going to have a moment's rest. You won't have any success either.


FTFA:
Rent-to-own businesses insist their contracts aren't credit transactions, and the state's consumer act shouldn't apply to them.

Opponents contend the businesses prey on the poor and charge exorbitant interest rates similar to payday lenders; they maintain people deserve to see exactly what they're paying for when they sign rent-to-own contracts.


In other words, most people are just trying to get the farking fine print in there in the first place. The RTO places are claiming that they don't have to disclose anywhere that in the long run, you pay a minimum of 3x what the item is actually worth.

Jesus, nobody seems to have read the second paragraph here...
 
2013-03-05 12:28:59 PM  

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Agreed. The govenrment should collect taxes and ....well, I guess just collect taxes.
 
2013-03-05 12:29:08 PM  
from TFA:

Businesses would be required to disclose an item's price and the total number of payments needed to own it. Prices would be capped at twice the actual purchase price or the price of similar items for sale at the business, whichever is more. Businesses would have to pay the state $1,000 annually.

The bill also would cap damages in individual lawsuits at $1,000. Class action damages would be limited to $500,000 or 1 percent of the net worth of the rent-to-own company, whichever is less. And the industry would not have to disclose annual percentage rates.


All the motivations a politician needs right there.
 
2013-03-05 12:29:13 PM  

Mikey1969: The RTO places are claiming that they don't have to disclose anywhere that in the long run, you pay a minimum of 3x what the item is actually worth.


So, they're like mortgages, then?
 
2013-03-05 12:29:36 PM  

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


No of course not, which is why we also have no laws against Usury, Fraud or Confidence schemes, because after all these things only hurt the stupid so it's no skin off the government's nose.

at least 75% of all laws ever passed could be fairly described as "protecting the stupid from themselves"
 
2013-03-05 12:30:29 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Does Wisconsin have a lottery?


You mean a lottery in which they clearly disclose the odds of winning? Yes they do.
 
2013-03-05 12:30:44 PM  

akula: Not to be a complete asshole, but if somebody isn't going to read the fine print or do some simple math there's ultimately not one thing you can do to keep that person from being taken for every dime they have. If your mission is to keep people from taking advantage of the stupid and lazy you're never going to have a moment's rest. You won't have any success either.


At this point, Scott's finished going after every dime people have and started work on the dimes he thinks they might be able to have in the future.
 
2013-03-05 12:30:45 PM  
img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-03-05 12:30:46 PM  

Generation_D: Is it government's job to protect the stupid from themselves?


Actually, yeah.
 
2013-03-05 12:31:02 PM  
When I sold cars to sub-prime lenders, the financial institutions we worked with took those debts into account when determining their credit, so I think they should be covered under that bill as I understand it. Yes, most of my customers fell into that category: poor, usually receiving some level of government assistance, and extremely math-challenged.

When they used to ask what the down payment would be and I'd tell them 10-20%, they all got this blank look on their faces. It used to be real fun to explain how an eight thousand dollar car could become closer to a twelve to fourteen thousand dollar car. For most, it didn't matter. They only planned on keeping the car for a few months anyway. Most would make one or two payments and then stopped paying, knowing they'd have another month or two before the car was repoed.

We had families that would go through this cycle that as each child reached the legal age, they'd start getting the utilities and stuff turned on in their names, as the previous sibling had defaulted. Same with cars. First mom, and then the oldest kids on down would finance a car for a few months, everybody in the house (and probably the block) would run 'em into the ground, and by the time the repo guys got hold of them they were ready for the scrap yard.

A year later, the next kid in line would show up looking for a car and the process continued. Lather, rinse, repeat...
 
2013-03-05 12:31:11 PM  
To quote Governor Walker, "Muahaha."
 
2013-03-05 12:31:15 PM  

Mikey1969: akula: dittybopper: More to the point, though, if you *DO* go to those sorts of places to purchase stuff, you're probably too stupid to understand the significance of the interest rate anyway, or you're in such a dire situation you don't care.

Not to be a complete asshole, but if somebody isn't going to read the fine print or do some simple math there's ultimately not one thing you can do to keep that person from being taken for every dime they have. If your mission is to keep people from taking advantage of the stupid and lazy you're never going to have a moment's rest. You won't have any success either.

FTFA:
Rent-to-own businesses insist their contracts aren't credit transactions, and the state's consumer act shouldn't apply to them.

Opponents contend the businesses prey on the poor and charge exorbitant interest rates similar to payday lenders; they maintain people deserve to see exactly what they're paying for when they sign rent-to-own contracts.

In other words, most people are just trying to get the farking fine print in there in the first place. The RTO places are claiming that they don't have to disclose anywhere that in the long run, you pay a minimum of 3x what the item is actually worth.

Jesus, nobody seems to have read the second paragraph here...


if tis furniture the item is often osb with a shiatty veneer.
more like 25x times its worth.
 
2013-03-05 12:31:20 PM  
Consumer protection schconsumer shrprotection
 
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