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(Huffington Post)   Environmentalists: Let's cut down some of these trees because they're invasive and pose a fire danger. Environmentallyretardists: That's plant fascism   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Sutro Forest, Mount Sutro, Let's, UCSF, native plants, urban forest, eucalyptus trees, John Muir  
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1637 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Mar 2013 at 8:26 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-05 08:36:50 AM  
Pragmatism and extremism are mutually exclusive.
 
2013-03-05 08:37:13 AM  
I dunno. Both sides seem to have a point.
 
2013-03-05 08:46:29 AM  
"I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

And like the forest, your density creates a greater risk of a wildfire.
 
2013-03-05 08:53:43 AM  
Solution: transplant the invasive trees into the protesters' yards.
 
2013-03-05 08:54:21 AM  
I can see how using the herbicide is a legitimate concern, but not removing trees likely to help a potential wildfire spread?  These people are no better than the ones who recklessly build tons of homes on the Outer Banks.  We spent how long foolishly trying to prevent all forest fires only to see the ones that did start become that much worse?
 
2013-03-05 09:04:50 AM  
Natural coho salmon are on the endangered species list; however, farm raised coho salmon are not.  They are genetically identical with the only difference being that the farm raised ones are more aggressive and breed better in the wild.  Environmentalists have been protecting the group with weaker traits.
 
2013-03-05 09:11:18 AM  
Welcome to every year in Alaska.

They tell us we can't cut down the trees, then we watch hundreds of thousands of acres burn every year.
 
2013-03-05 09:15:11 AM  
Well on the plus side this might just work itself out.  All you have to do is convince  the envriozellots to chain themselves to the trees to protect the trees.  When the expected wildfire starts... no more envirozellots.... Though I guess the idea is to cut the trees to prevent the fire so nothing is really accomplished.
 
2013-03-05 09:20:48 AM  
This is fun, I have never seen a forest management issue the subject of a Godwin attack before.

/Forests near populated areas need to be managed or eventually there will just be a huge burnt piece of ground.
 
2013-03-05 09:21:38 AM  
Eucalyptus trees are nasty in a fire. They have a tendency to explode. Cut them all down, wherever they're found. Unless the thought of exploding trees excites you, then plant them all around your home and hope for fire. Or start a fire.

Plant fascism though, I like that. Landscapers in SS uniforms, chopping down trees that are not the right height.
 
2013-03-05 09:24:21 AM  

Saiga410: Well on the plus side this might just work itself out.  All you have to do is convince  the envriozellots to chain themselves to the trees to protect the trees.  When the expected wildfire starts... no more envirozellots.... Though I guess the idea is to cut the trees to prevent the fire so nothing is really accomplished.


Chaining themselves to the trees in a wildfire is especially awesome since they're eucalyptus trees.

/Boom
 
2013-03-05 09:31:18 AM  

GoldSpider: "I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

And like the forest, your density creates a greater risk of a wildfire.


Fire is very beautiful too!  FIRE!
 
2013-03-05 09:36:08 AM  

LectertheChef: Plant fascism though, I like that. Landscapers in SS uniforms, chopping down trees that are not the right height.


It has happened before
 
2013-03-05 09:45:33 AM  
The forest "as is" isn't overrun with invasive species.
 
2013-03-05 09:55:47 AM  

LectertheChef: Eucalyptus trees are nasty in a fire. They have a tendency to explode. Cut them all down, wherever they're found. Unless the thought of exploding trees excites you, then plant them all around your home and hope for fire. Or start a fire.

Plant fascism though, I like that. Landscapers in SS uniforms, chopping down trees that are not the right height.


The Oakland Hills fire taught me all I need to know about eucalyptus.
 
2013-03-05 09:56:17 AM  
Holy crap, they actually said that.  They actually said "plant fascism".

www.plognark.com
 
2013-03-05 09:56:54 AM  

LectertheChef: Eucalyptus trees are nasty in a fire. They have a tendency to explode. Cut them all down, wherever they're found. Unless the thought of exploding trees excites you, then plant them all around your home and hope for fire. Or start a fire.

Plant fascism though, I like that. Landscapers in SS uniforms, chopping down trees that are not the right height.


Good thing I live in Michigan, where the trees are *all* the right height already.


I gotta admit though, when I was chopping down some Japanese Knotweed I did get kind of a destroyer of worlds rush.


This is in the GIS for Japanese Knotweed



So... there it is.
 
2013-03-05 09:57:38 AM  

LectertheChef: Eucalyptus trees are nasty in a fire. They have a tendency to explode. Cut them all down, wherever they're found. Unless the thought of exploding trees excites you, then plant them all around your home and hope for fire. Or start a fire.

Plant fascism though, I like that. Landscapers in SS uniforms, chopping down trees that are not the right height.


I remember saying that too. Until the night of the long branches.

/Tens of thousands of gumballs were sent to the incinerator that day
 
2013-03-05 09:57:48 AM  
The trees are invasive, period.  Whether or not they are disagreeable is up for debate.
 
2013-03-05 09:58:08 AM  
Just cover the eucalyptus trees with koala bears.
 
2013-03-05 10:01:31 AM  

WelldeadLink: Just cover the eucalyptus trees with koala bears.


Then set fire to them?
 
2013-03-05 10:08:06 AM  
Are they going to gas the trees, or are they just going to line them up back to back and try to kill multiple of them with one bullet?
 
2013-03-05 10:10:08 AM  
We have a similar running debate here (Sarasota, FL).  Many areas on the barrier islands are healilly treed with Australian Pines, a big, woody shade tree.  The county is clearing them out and gradually replacing them with Mangroves and similar native trees.  The program seeks to repair, to the degree possible, the native ecology.  Every time a new park, spoil island or another area is set for clear cutting, folks come out of the woodwork (heh) complaining about the loss of trees, shade and privacy for their condos.
 
2013-03-05 10:20:17 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: LectertheChef: Eucalyptus trees are nasty in a fire. They have a tendency to explode. Cut them all down, wherever they're found. Unless the thought of exploding trees excites you, then plant them all around your home and hope for fire. Or start a fire.

Plant fascism though, I like that. Landscapers in SS uniforms, chopping down trees that are not the right height.

I remember saying that too. Until the night of the long branches.

/Tens of thousands of gumballs were sent to the incinerator that day


"Velcome to You Bet Your Garden, I am Mike McGrath, und today ve are dizcussink a Final Solution to ze Wysteria Menace."
 
2013-03-05 10:22:47 AM  

UNC_Samurai: I can see how using the herbicide is a legitimate concern, but not removing trees likely to help a potential wildfire spread?  These people are no better than the ones who recklessly build tons of homes on the Outer Banks.  We spent how long foolishly trying to prevent all forest fires only to see the ones that did start become that much worse?


Same goddamn people that then demand firefighters be sent into the middle of farking nowhere to stop a forest fire that's no threat to anybody and cry about the forest being destroyed not realizing that it's natural and some forests need to burn.

If you want a lot of fun, find an "environmentalist" (in quotes for a reason, you know the type) with indoor/outdoor cats and tell them that outdoor cats are terrible for native birds and often murder endangered shore birds.
 
2013-03-05 10:33:13 AM  
become a war between the fascists and the naturalists.

article seems a bit biased, perhaps.

forest fires are natural and healthy for the forests. and fun to watch. i guess it comes down to whether you want a forest or a manicured park.
 
2013-03-05 11:10:24 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Welcome to every year in Alaska.

They tell us we can't cut down the trees, then we watch hundreds of thousands of acres burn every year.


Really? US Forest Service here in CO is pretty good about cutting down standing dead throughout the spring/summer/fall... that said, when burns happen, for the most part we just let em happen b/c you don't get new pine trees without the cones getting crazy hot in temperature so the resin loosens up.

We don't let loggers in b/c they aren't interested in clearing underbrush or standing dead, they just wanna cut the good trees and leave the fire danger for someone else to deal with.
 
2013-03-05 11:26:34 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: The forest "as is" isn't overrun with invasive species.


Exactly.
 
2013-03-05 12:03:13 PM  

the801: become a war between the fascists and the naturalists.

article seems a bit biased, perhaps.

forest fires are natural and healthy for the forests. and fun to watch. i guess it comes down to whether you want a forest or a manicured park.


They want a manicured park that looks natural.

Reminds of a person that once remarked how amazing it was that mother nature had planted all those pine trees along the road in perfect rows.

It was a tree farm.

//I'm a pragmatic conservationist, not an intractable preservationist.
 
2013-03-05 12:03:50 PM  

the801: become a war between the fascists and the naturalists.

article seems a bit biased, perhaps.

forest fires are natural and healthy for the forests. and fun to watch. i guess it comes down to whether you want a forest or a manicured park.


right. Though using phrases like "plant fascism" promotes immediate dismissal of your position by most people
 
2013-03-05 01:20:28 PM  
But... what will California's koalas and sugar gliders eat?
 
2013-03-05 01:28:34 PM  
"I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

People like you are the problem with the world today.  It's not even believable that you're naturally that ignorant of basic environmental maintenance and forestry, you have to have actively been avoiding knowledge for most of your life to maintain that level of dangerous stupidity.

I await with eagerness your inevitable random death from somehow forgetting how to breathe, because that's the territory you're in, intelligence-wise.
 
2013-03-05 01:33:57 PM  
"I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

You do realize that eucalyptus
are not native, right hippy?  The forest will be more like, natural and stuff, man, without them.  Plus, these things are worse than napalm when they go up.

So shut your bong-hole you smelly hippy.
 
2013-03-05 01:50:16 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: "I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

You do realize that eucalyptus are not native, right hippy?  The forest will be more like, natural and stuff, man, without them.  Plus, these things are worse than napalm when they go up.

So shut your bong-hole you smelly hippy.


He's probably a PETA-ist on the side, one of the ones who wants to trap all the coyotes and raccoons in the park and set them free someplace else to roam as Nature intended, and pet the feral kitties on the head. People like that need to be staked out alive for the buzzards.
 
2013-03-05 01:58:16 PM  
Anyway, it's one hill in the middle of a big city. Whatever.
 
2013-03-05 02:21:47 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Lionel Mandrake: "I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

You do realize that eucalyptus are not native, right hippy?  The forest will be more like, natural and stuff, man, without them.  Plus, these things are worse than napalm when they go up.

So shut your bong-hole you smelly hippy.

He's probably a PETA-ist on the side, one of the ones who wants to trap all the coyotes and raccoons in the park and set them free someplace else to roam as Nature intended, and pet the feral kitties on the head. People like that need to be staked out alive for the buzzards.


Yeah, and he probably wears leather shoes while he's doing it.
 
2013-03-05 03:39:01 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Holy crap, they actually said that.  They actually said "plant fascism".

[www.plognark.com image 600x682]


My reaction as well.

Darwinning an environmental argument?

Cue up [mydaysofnottakingyouseriously] jpeg.
 
2013-03-05 03:51:39 PM  

jonas opines: GoldSpider: "I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

And like the forest, your density creates a greater risk of a wildfire.

Fire is very beautiful too!  FIRE!


We've been using (controlled) fire for a number of years to start to return our forested property to something close to what we've determined would have been its "pre-European settlement" state.  It's a lot of work undoing 80+ years of wrong-headedness on the part of the Forest Circus and Bureau of Large Mistakes; fire's been a useful tool.

I do have to say that a forested hillside in the West that is stocked with trees at the density mirroring that from the 1700's looks a little sparse to our modern eyes.  OTOH, you can let it burn every 7-10 years with minimal damage.
 
2013-03-05 04:30:06 PM  

Gough: jonas opines: GoldSpider: "I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

And like the forest, your density creates a greater risk of a wildfire.

Fire is very beautiful too!  FIRE!

We've been using (controlled) fire for a number of years to start to return our forested property to something close to what we've determined would have been its "pre-European settlement" state.  It's a lot of work undoing 80+ years of wrong-headedness on the part of the Forest Circus and Bureau of Large Mistakes; fire's been a useful tool.

I do have to say that a forested hillside in the West that is stocked with trees at the density mirroring that from the 1700's looks a little sparse to our modern eyes. OTOH, you can let it burn every 7-10 years with minimal damage.


Weyerhauser frowns on your shenanigans.

//Pack in that monoculture...
 
2013-03-05 05:21:51 PM  

meat0918: Gough: jonas opines: GoldSpider: "I just wish you would respect the forest as it is," protester Kevin King said. "Its density is one of its beauties."

And like the forest, your density creates a greater risk of a wildfire.

Fire is very beautiful too!  FIRE!

We've been using (controlled) fire for a number of years to start to return our forested property to something close to what we've determined would have been its "pre-European settlement" state.  It's a lot of work undoing 80+ years of wrong-headedness on the part of the Forest Circus and Bureau of Large Mistakes; fire's been a useful tool.

I do have to say that a forested hillside in the West that is stocked with trees at the density mirroring that from the 1700's looks a little sparse to our modern eyes.  OTOH, you can let it burn every 7-10 years with minimal damage.

Weyerhauser frowns on your shenanigans.

//Pack in that monoculture...


The odd thing is that thinning it to the density that we are is almost illegal.  The only thing that saves us is the non-commercial nature of our operation.
 
2013-03-05 10:01:25 PM  
I guess what it is, is that you have a bunch of simple-minded people who think that all you have to do for an environment to attain a natural state is for man to do nothing.

And that might even work, were it not that man's been doing stuff, namely planting non-native species and not letting natural fires take their course, for over a century. It could easily take millennia, if not tens of millennia, for "doing nothing" to result in an ecosystem as rich as the one that was there when we arrived, and it'll be a distinctly different one, with a lot of the current species of plants and animals going extinct in the interim.

FSM save us from morons who like the idea of "natural" without the faintest inclination to learn anything about what that actually means.
 
2013-03-06 06:54:16 AM  
If the farktards give al gore money, Everything will be ok.
 
2013-03-06 05:46:29 PM  

Nemo's Brother: al gore


DRINK!
 
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