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(NYPost)   Hello, my name is Jason and I'll be your server tonight. Our special is the whiniest article about waiters you'll read this year. It's served over a bed of snobbery with a NYPost glaze. And just so you know, there is a tipping wank surcharge   (nypost.com ) divider line 245
    More: Dumbass, party service  
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16835 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 7:56 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-05 05:33:27 AM  

hubiestubert: Higher end service means educating your waitstaff. More than just what an aioli is, but also wine service, knowledge about said wines, featured wines and beer, knowledge about liquor, which often means a sommelier on hand to educate the staff and make good choices for the place.

You want an educated waitstaff no matter what. Differences in sauces, what stocks are used, what cuts of meat, where they come from, and to head off odd questions, like folks who have food allergies and what to steer clear of, and how food is prepared in the kitchen. You are allergic to seafood, you might want to make sure the kitchen fries proteins in a different fryer than the starches.

Good waitstaff make all the difference. Not just for the guest but for the kitchen as well. Good waitstaff are essential for running a joint well.


Sounds like some pretty picky eaters. Never in my life have I questioned wait staff about any of that stuff, nor would I want to. If an item looks or sounds appetizing on the menu I order it, in the off chance I don't like it I know not to get that next time. I guess I could see it for someone with food allergies, but most people with allergies tend to know what sets them off and what doesn't already and people with high risk allergies tend to not eat out much anyway.
 
2013-03-05 05:39:36 AM  

Z-clipped: Yogimus: Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor.

I know, right?  WTF is up with software engineers?  I've watched them work...  All they do is sit on their asses all day typing little numbers and letters into a computer.  How hard is that?  Jeez, if you want to make money, learn a real skill.


If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money. You are likely getting by at best. The real money is in inheritances and entrepreneurial enterprises.
 
2013-03-05 05:53:32 AM  

hubiestubert: Good waitstaff are essential for running a joint well.


so why do north american restaurants pay them below minimum wage ?
Why do the customers have to pay them separately ?

This industry is warped.

I blame their employers.
 
2013-03-05 06:09:38 AM  

Slartibartfaster: so why do north american restaurants pay them below minimum wage ?
Why do the customers have to pay them separately ?

This industry is warped.

I blame their employers.


Because tipping provides motivation.  The system by and large works pretty well.
 
2013-03-05 06:17:28 AM  
Was in a Florida restaurant on holiday some years ago and being English we politely, said "Thank you" whenever the waiter dropped off or collected a plate, to which he'd respond with "You're welcome" in what I think was a Texas drawl.
As the meal progressed the exchanges became more frequent. We were enjoying the drawl and he'd picked up on it dropping dishes off one at a time. "You're welcome" is still a family catch phrase.

What I'm trying to get to is that the person serving you is a human being doing a job. Being polite and treating them as an equal will do you no harm and may even make the meal memorable.
 
2013-03-05 06:32:46 AM  

OscarTamerz: [funcorner.eu image 300x300]

Most of the gay waiters which is most of the waiters in the OC are from Laguna Beach which took the title as AIDS capital of California from Frisco in '89. If you're visiting Disneyland and don't want to be ingesting HIV then it would behoove you to be as nice as possible to your waiter. Don't believe any of the we don't spit in the food bullshiat in the article.


I'd pay extra if a really cute waiter would wank on my steak before bringing it out.

2.bp.blogspot.com


And I've managed in restaurants. I caution all farkers to not piss off the help. God only knows what you may ingest. I've heard of, never seen, sliced roast beef used in lieu of Charmin.
 
2013-03-05 07:19:10 AM  

Slartibartfaster: I tip because I WANT to, if it is demanded of me it will ALWAYS be 0%


Do you feel the need to be childishly contrarian about all of society's expectations of you, or just this one?

"I WAS going to get you an engagement ring, but since it's obvious that you EXPECT one from me, you get NOTHING!  Now, will you marry me or not?"
 
2013-03-05 07:27:09 AM  

Z-clipped: Do you feel the need to be childishly contrarian about all of society's expectations of you, or just this one?


I stand against ALL unreasonable demands

... how is surrendering working out for you ?

All hail the red white and blue (the order is not important)

deaddrops.com
 
2013-03-05 07:35:34 AM  

Ebbelwoi: The system by and large works pretty well.


You are used to being lied to
(the price is X, you pay X$)
It works pretty well when you remove it too

Give it a shot, OR, campaign or write sternly written letters to return the minimum wage laws without restriction.
It works pretty well in nations with much larger, and much smaller populations.

Currently working for communist China, I am from Socialist New Zealand. The US system is busted on LOTS of levels, but .. some probably wont notice until later. US society is FULL of lies regarding prices for products. I bought a car in the US a few years back I was SHOCKED that the price advertised was not accurate, I assumed honesty and did not find it, I did the same with my land there, and the birth of my daughter there.... QUESTION your society, and all others, but the single fault in all societies is that the masses do not question.

Stop to question WHY
 
2013-03-05 07:46:22 AM  
I'm normally a good tipper.  But a recent restaurant visit with my wife and sister in law was marred by a bad waiter.  It took him over fifteen minutes to get our drink order, and he screwed it up.   He dispatched our order late, and had others deliver our food.  And this was off-peak hours in a largely empty dining room.  We were one of two tables he was watching at the time.  So I rounded the bill to the next dollar to express my dissatisfaction.

I still felt like a dick for doing it.  I really hope it was taken as a wake-up call, because if he can't handle 2 tables, what happens when his whole section is full?
 
2013-03-05 07:46:33 AM  

Z-clipped: MayoBoy: It was poor planning or miscommunication on their part as well as slow service from the kitchen. Our check for 4 (2 adults, 2 children) was ~120.00 and the waitress got 160.00. Reservation was for 5:15 and they ran the credit card at 8:15 (while we were still eating dessert). I know that they'd like to turn a table over every 60-90 minutes but we spent at least that much time waiting for our food.

3 hours for a 5:15 four-top, two of which are children, and it's the restaurant's doing? Shenannigans. They sat you with the expectation that you would be gone by the time the party that had that table reserved at 7:00 showed up. One or all of the following had to have happened:

1. You showed up at 5:45 for your 5:15 reservation.
2. You refused to order for 45 minutes after being seated while you "decided" and "took your time".
3. You refused to let the server course your food, and insisted on waiting until your first course came out before you'd order your second.
4. You spent 2 hours with your cold, wilted entree plates in front of you while you interacted with your kids.
5. You needed 30 minutes to "digest" before you would even look at the dessert menu.



As you weren't there, I'll clarify a few things for you:

1) We showed up at 5:10 and the last of our party was there at 5:20
2) We ordered our drinks as soon as we showed up and ordered our appetizers when she brought the drinks
3) She asked if we wanted to wait until we were finished with the appetizers to order our entrees, I said no and we ordered them at that time.  She didn't even offer to take the entree order when we ordered our appetizers.  The appetizers took between 30 and 45 minutes to arrive (escarole, bruschetta, calamari, etc. - nothing out of the ordinary)
4) The kids are quite capable of eating on their own.  My pasta was too hot to eat at first, my wife's steak was cold.
5) They were clearing our table and boxing our food before the waitress came to take our dessert order.

The owner was not present that night which was probably part of the problem.
 
2013-03-05 07:47:21 AM  
As someone who thinks waitri (my made up term for both sexes) are *slightly* self entitled. Yes, a lot of you work really hard,(maybe not always at providing actual service, but at least all the other BS crap they make you do when not waiting tables) and it's a shame the resturant rips you off in pay, but 15% is fair for good service. Great service gets you more. Fair service gets you less, and anything under gets you nothing. (You lose. Good day, sir.)

But damn, the author of that article is a real douchebag. If you don't like how the ENTIRE waitri system works, don't go out to eat.
 
2013-03-05 07:51:04 AM  
200+ posts and I'm the first with this:

i.imgur.com

Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2013-03-05 08:40:29 AM  

MythDragon: If you don't like how the ENTIRE waitri system works, don't go out to eat


the founding fathers disagree
 
2013-03-05 08:49:22 AM  
Eh, I've been in the bar biz too long; but I don't need to hear another "In my county, we don't...".  Really.  Go fark yourself.  You have the internet, there is a thing called Google, and it's a ten second search to find out the tipping/hospitality culture ANYWHERE.  I live in the US, and I'll check out what's customary where ever I go on a trip; be it New Orleans, Toronto, or Tokyo - just to ensure I have a good time and be less of a putz to the locals.

If you don't like the experience of going out, stay at home.  The rest of the establishment will thank you, patron and staff alike.  If you want a servant, hit the lotto and hire Jeeves or go to some shady rent-a-sub for a chew toy.

That said, there are a hundred different ways for management to screw a server or bartender, and in Florida most of them are at least quasi-legal.  Very few people in the front of the house actually bring much or anything home on their paychecks, so yes, they very well are living on their tips.  People who complain... well, they don't last long in the business.
 
2013-03-05 08:51:07 AM  

Babwa Wawa: 200+ posts and I'm the first with this:
Fark, I am disappoint.


Jen & the manager dork made an appearance earlier...
 
2013-03-05 08:56:42 AM  

Ranger Rover: I do believe in the basic principles of a free market, and where this gets weird is how farked up it's become over time in this industry, with an endless cycle of legislation and lobbying making it really difficult to determine just what the free market WOULD pay a server for good service.


I'm not sure why you think free market principles aren't at work here.  People have more freedom when it comes to paying for service in a restaurant than in almost any other industry.  It is a VERY interesting case though, because restaurant service is one of the very few industries where customer expectations and payment benchmarks are socially influenced, fluid, and subjective.  It's extremely difficult to compare the forces at work on waiting tables to any other product or service because the overall product that restaurants offer isn't "food", nor is it even simply "service".  The prevailing wisdom labels it "an experience" for lack of a better term, but even this doesn't do justice to the extremely complex and varied interactions that occur in restaurants.  You absolutely must have a basic comprehension of the unique cultural role that restaurants play before you can begin to distill them to simplified economic variables. Even the common sense answer to the most basic question, "why do people go to restaurants?" is mind-blowingly misleading.

All in all, tipping culture provides an excellent framework for this kind of transaction, where both parties benefit from motivation and compensation that are realized in an immediate fashion, as opposed to being spread out over a statistical sample.  In a way, it's kind of like free market in a Petri dish.  I encourage you to look into the matter though, because it's fascinating, and there's a dearth of research on food/restaurant culture. (Full disclosure: my wife studied Food Anthropology in college, so I'm both biased, and reasonably well-informed)

Ranger Rover: Second, addressing the allergy example, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a basic hostage situation being my criteria for good tipping (which is essentially what this comes down to, if you're arguing that servers deserve more than the statutorily guaranteed minimum wage).


You misunderstand me.  I'm referring to motivation and responsibility.  I'm not insinuating that a server paid minimum wage would purposely poison your food.  But in any situation where this kind of care is required, a well-paid employee can be expected to exercise more focus and responsibility, and work harder to prevent mistakes.  If for no other reason, because they would be more motivated to keep a high-paying job than a minimum wage job.

Ranger Rover: I don't agree that understanding that someone is allergic to peanuts, so hold the peanuts, is particularly skilled work, although please don't think I'm saying that there aren't aspects of serving that totally do require talent (I have a friend that still amazes me with his ability to remember orders, without writing anything down, up to like an entire month later).


This is actually quite interesting, because you have it exactly backward.  Unless the person in question is one of the astronomically rare people who have a truly eidetic memory, not writing orders down is a parlor trick that's ultimately the sign of an unprofessional server, or at least, one who is not paying enough attention to the things he ought to (no offense to your friend).  Good waiters spend every second of the time they are at the table being perceptive, and looking for ways to make your experience better that you probably wouldn't think of yourself.  Filling your brain with memorized orders just wastes valuable processing power.  It's also stupid because it divests you of an impartial written record that can be referred back to later if you have a problem.  "You said this, I remember" holds much less credibility than "you said this, look I wrote it down."

On the other hand, keeping you from dying from a peanut allergy is MUCH more complicated in practice than simply writing "no peanuts" on your kitchen dupe.  (What that does is kick the responsibility to someone else, which is exactly the opposite of what a good waiter wants.)  Even the cook behind the line may not know for sure whether something is safe for you. Peanuts can be present in any number of ingredients from oils to flour to any processed ingredients that might wind up in you dish at some point along the way.  The prep cook that floured your chicken breast before par cooking it may have used flour that was processed near peanuts, or maybe not.  The fryer oil may contain some peanut, may contain peanut residue from a previous batch of oil, or it may not... the list goes on.

Most importantly, any time a waiter has to respond to a question with "I'm not sure, let me go check on that", they've already failed.  "Can this dish be prepared without peanuts/gluten/tree nuts/garlic/milk/egg/shellfish/soy/honey/alcohol etc.?" can be an extremely difficult question to promptly answer unless you have thorough and complete knowledge of ingredient sourcing, prep techniques, and the flavor profile of the dish... sometimes even who worked prep that day can be necessary information.  When I waited tables, I often knew things about the night's menu that my chef de cuisine couldn't tell you if his life depended on it.

So, given the amount of knowledge and motivation it takes to answer that question, do you think you're safer with someone working for $7.25/hr, or someone making $30-50/hr (which is about what I used to make when I waited tables)?

Ranger Rover: have my food spit in


By the way, this fear is probably largely overblown.  I worked in various parts of the restaurant industry for almost 20 years, and not once did I ever see, or even hear about someone actually tainting a guest's food where I worked.  And I've seen a LOT of crazy shiat go down in restaurants and bars.  A lot.

Ranger Rover: I couldn't imagine paying my mechanic extra to not "accidentally" cut my brakes; my computer tech to not "accidentally" give me a virus or fail to install the proper protection, etc. And I know that a retort may be that these people in my example are being paid for their work much more handsomely than servers - but what is that a reflection on? For better or for worse, our society (and the market? that's the mystery to me) have assigned different values to these positions.


Actually, when you're talking about high-end restaurants, waiters make as much or more than these other two trades.  And that's what they are, all three: respectable trades that take a roughly equivalent amount of knowledge and training to do well.  (Median salary for a software developer/engineer is just over $68K, median for auto mechanics is $34K.  Waiting tables overall is somewhere between, but when you consider high-end only, it's higher.  At my last job as a waiter, I made over $70K, and I've known people in NYC to clear six figures.)

Funny thing is, you think of an auto mechanic providing a fixed service for a fixed price- very binary...either the car runs, or it doesn't- but there's actually just as much possibility for variation in quality of his work as there is for restaurant service.  If you take your car in for engine trouble, and you get it back running, do you get to pay less than the quoted price if your mechanic used duct tape to plug a vacuum leak, or put a cheap made-in-china electronic part in, instead of OEM?  (assuming you can even tell, that is)  Did he notice a problem with your bearings that's going to come back to haunt you when he had your car on the lift, but not say anything?  What if he goes the extra mile, and cleans and details your car and rotates the tires while he has it in the shop?  There aren't really benchmarks in place for auto mechanics, but for servers, they're very clear:  15% = barely adequate, 18% = good/standard, 20+% = excellent.

Ranger Rover: As a server, what do you think? Do you have baseline standards that you adhere to no matter what, or do you fluctuate with the customer base? I think I would understand either. And, you probably make more money than I do, so if this an argument, rest assured you have the last laugh.


Personally, I take pride in whatever job I do, and I always work to the best of my ability no matter who I'm serving.  When I was a waiter I maintained a consistent level of education that most non-restaurant workers probably couldn't fathom.  Consequently, I tended to get 20+% from everybody, even the "Mr. Pink" types who spout off in these treads, because people respected me.  And respectfully, I expected to be tipped well because I knew that waiters like me were rare.

And I'm sure you make more than I do now, because I quit my job over a year ago.  I'm back in school working on a BS/MS in Physics.
 
2013-03-05 09:13:15 AM  

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Yogimus: Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor.

I know, right?  WTF is up with software engineers?  I've watched them work...  All they do is sit on their asses all day typing little numbers and letters into a computer.  How hard is that?  Jeez, if you want to make money, learn a real skill.

If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money. You are likely getting by at best. The real money is in inheritances and entrepreneurial enterprises.



FTFTheOnlyThingThatReallyMatters
 
2013-03-05 09:17:08 AM  

Two16: untaken_name: Z-clipped: Yogimus: Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor.

I know, right?  WTF is up with software engineers?  I've watched them work...  All they do is sit on their asses all day typing little numbers and letters into a computer.  How hard is that?  Jeez, if you want to make money, learn a real skill.

If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money. You are likely getting by at best. The real money is in inheritances and entrepreneurial enterprises.


FTFTheOnlyThingThatReallyMatters


http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/04/19/most-millionaires-are-se lf -made-only-6-inherited/

http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/most-wealthy-individuals-earned -n ot-inherited-their-wealth/

http://news.discovery.com/human/life/millionaires-120722.htm
 
2013-03-05 09:21:06 AM  

Slartibartfaster: You are used to being lied to
(the price is X, you pay X$)


You're ridiculous.  Have you traveled like, at ALL ?  Don't you realize that these kind of conventions wary wildly from culture to culture?  Go to SE Asia and say "the price is X, you pay X" and you'll get politely laughed at.

Tipping culture in the US is not a lie, and it works just fine.  I'll never understand why so many people on Fark are so desperate to give up their power in the dining experience for the sake of having a particular industry fit into a neat little conceptual box.  Do you think that if restaurant moved to straight commission/service charges that you'd end up paying less somehow?  Hell no.  You'd end up with hard-selling waiters who didn't have to give a fark about whether you have a nice time, as long as you spend money and get out.

~18% is what service costs here.  You're going to pay it one way or another.  At the moment, you have a socially acceptable amount of leeway to reward above average service, and punish poor service.  Don't fight it, enjoy it!

MayoBoy: As you weren't there, I'll clarify a few things for you:

1) We showed up at 5:10 and the last of our party was there at 5:20
2) We ordered our drinks as soon as we showed up and ordered our appetizers when she brought the drinks
3) She asked if we wanted to wait until we were finished with the appetizers to order our entrees, I said no and we ordered them at that time.  She didn't even offer to take the entree order when we ordered our appetizers.  The appetizers took between 30 and 45 minutes to arrive (escarole, bruschetta, calamari, etc. - nothing out of the ordinary)
4) The kids are quite capable of eating on their own.  My pasta was too hot to eat at first, my wife's steak was cold.
5) They were clearing our table and boxing our food before the waitress came to take our dessert order.

The owner was not present that night which was probably part of the problem.


In that case, you got screwed (although I'm still puzzled about how the above adds up to 3 hours at the table.  I believe you, but I can't help finding that a bit fishy).  If I had been managing that restaurant, somebody would probably have lost their job over that many compounded failures.  I hope you said something to the owner.  I would be mortified if it were my restaurant.
 
2013-03-05 09:38:47 AM  

MythDragon: but 15% is fair for good service. Great service gets you more. Fair service gets you less, and anything under gets you nothing. (You lose. Good day, sir.)


Not scolding you, but this can vary both geographically and with the quality of restaurant.  18% is a more common benchmark for "good" in nice places.  15% often communicates "barely adequate".  You may not care, but if you leave 15% in a fine restaurant it will most likely be interpreted as you being underwhelmed at your experience, and if your server gave you good service, he will probably be somewhat offended at the implication.

Do as you will, but if you get a lot of warm hellos and cold goodbyes, you might find that tossing an extra buck or two in the check presenter makes a big difference.  I know it seems silly being such a small amount of money most of the time.. it's more about the message the money sends than the money's value.
 
2013-03-05 09:49:03 AM  
Slartibartfaster:
You are used to being lied to
(the price is X, you pay X$)
It works pretty well when you remove it too

Give it a shot, OR, campaign or write sternly written letters to return the minimum wage laws without restriction.
It works pretty well in nations with much larger, and much smaller populations.

Currently working for communist China, I am from Socialist New Zealand. The US system is busted on LOTS of levels, but .. some probably wont notice until later. US society is FULL of lies regarding prices for products. I bought a car in the US a few years back I was SHOCKED that the price advertised was not accurate, I assumed honesty and did not find it, I did the same with my land there, and the birth of my daughter there.... QUESTION your society, and all others, but the single fault in all societies is that the masses do not question.

Stop to question WHY


Jesus what a gigantic fark-knob.  I don't live in the US.  But when I go there, just like every other country I find it super easy to navigate local customs which sometimes involves very simple math.  In fact, when I travel I never actually have the feeling that I'M being LIED TO, because, well because I'm not an idiot like you..
 
2013-03-05 10:28:39 AM  
Waiters, just please bring me my food, and I'll tip 20%. I hardly tip less.  If you are going to create this much drama (either party) over a meal or a few bucks, you should stay at home.
 
2013-03-05 10:28:55 AM  

untaken_name: If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money.


Funny... when I work, I get a paycheck that I can exchange for money.  Generally, it's more than enough for me to be happy and have the things I want!   Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Let me help:

Employment Contract
for untaken_name


I would like to be paid in:

Poker Chips    [  ]
Mike and Ikes [  ]
Poop              [  ]
US Dollars      [X]
 
2013-03-05 10:51:48 AM  
As a veteran of the retail food industry and frequent restaurant customer, I have to say I mostly agree with this guy (though not necessarily his attitude).  I don't want servers to be my friend, make small talk, or try to sell stuff to me.  Take my order, be prompt and courteous, and get your tip, please and thank you.
 
2013-03-05 11:24:32 AM  

Ebbelwoi: Jesus what a gigantic fark-knob


nuf said
 
2013-03-05 11:29:16 AM  

Ebbelwoi: when I travel I never actually have the feeling that I'M being LIED TO,


how farking naiive can you get ?
wanna buy a bridge ?
 
2013-03-05 11:36:24 AM  
Dear Shagyourselffaster.  We're real darned  sorry you came to America and the math was too hard.
 
2013-03-05 12:00:16 PM  
Z-clipped:
Interesting and informative. I like "free market in a Petri dish." Wasn't trying to say that free market is NOT at work here, just that it's a weird hybrid. I don't know if you read my subsidization comment earlier; that may be the main issue I have with the whole set-up.

"A well-paid employee can be expected to exercise more focus and responsibility, and work harder to prevent mistakes.  If for no other reason, because they would be more motivated to keep a high-paying job than a minimum wage job." You would probably agree that this would be true of anyone in any industry. But where does it top off? You speak mainly of high-end restaurants, but indicate that maybe different principles apply in those than in your basic run-of-the-mill Applebees. Should that guy be making 30-50? (Or does he already? I don't know) Really interested in this: Given an either/or option, would you extend tipping as a component of overall payment to the mechanics and techs I brought up, or eliminate the tipping system altogether in favor of employers paying standard wages and perhaps rewards based on business brought in/positive feedback received? Basically, which in your opinion is the better system for positions that you are comparing in terms of baseline standards and variability of performance?

The guys I know in the physics department at the university here are seriously mean cooks. Never had better fresh baked bread.
 
2013-03-05 12:14:34 PM  

Z-clipped: untaken_name: If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money.

Funny... when I work, I get a paycheck that I can exchange for money.  Generally, it's more than enough for me to be happy and have the things I want!   Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Let me help:

Employment Contract
for untaken_name

I would like to be paid in:

Poker Chips    [  ]
Mike and Ikes [  ]
Poop              [  ]
US Dollars      [X]


When you have to cut out the context of your quote in order to make your "point", your "point" is probably retarded. Let me repeat this because you are obviously slow (what are you, a waiter or something?): YOU ARE LIKELY NOT MAKING MONEY. YOU ARE LIKELY JUST GETTING BY.
You are literally being paid, but you are not "making money" in the context the adults you interrupted were using: you're not really doing better than a waiter. You may be making more dollars, but not more zeros. The president and founder makes a farkload more than any guy in the mailroom. If you can't understand that the difference is one of massive scale, then you deserve to think you're making money. Oh, and you're trying WAY too hard with that ascii bullshiat.
 
2013-03-05 12:54:10 PM  

untaken_name: Z-clipped: untaken_name: If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money.

Funny... when I work, I get a paycheck that I can exchange for money.  Generally, it's more than enough for me to be happy and have the things I want!   Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Let me help:

Employment Contract
for untaken_name

I would like to be paid in:

Poker Chips    [  ]
Mike and Ikes [  ]
Poop              [  ]
US Dollars      [X]

When you have to cut out the context of your quote in order to make your "point", your "point" is probably retarded. Let me repeat this because you are obviously slow (what are you, a waiter or something?): YOU ARE LIKELY NOT MAKING MONEY. YOU ARE LIKELY JUST GETTING BY.
You are literally being paid, but you are not "making money" in the context the adults you interrupted were using: you're not really doing better than a waiter. You may be making more dollars, but not more zeros. The president and founder makes a farkload more than any guy in the mailroom. If you can't understand that the difference is one of massive scale, then you deserve to think you're making money. Oh, and you're trying WAY too hard with that ascii bullshiat.


Jeez, you mad!

Not everyone's goal is to make a brazillion dollars. I make enough that I don't have to worry about money. I do the things I want to do, and have the things I want to have. By the time my kid is old enough to go to college, I'll be able to send her. I just took a year off from work, and I could take three more if I wanted.

I have more than enough. If that qualifies as "just getting by", then you have a different definition than most of us, I think. Believe it our not, adding three zeroes to my paycheck wouldn't improve my life significantly.

That's the point I was making: just because you're not getting filthy rich as a business owner doesn't mean the money you're making is insignificant. There IS such a thing as decreasing marginal utility, and quality of life. Money isn't an end in itself. It's just a means to an end. The one who dies with the biggest pile doesn't win anything except a fancier coffin.

Sorry you didn't like my joke. Maybe you should calm down, and not worry so much. Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy". It's troubling that so few Americans grasp the idea.
 
2013-03-05 01:19:46 PM  

Z-clipped: Believe it our not, adding three zeroes to my paycheck wouldn't improve my life significantly.


Gee, those grapes are probably really sour, anyway.

Z-clipped: Sorry you didn't like my joke.


You absolutely should be.

Z-clipped: Maybe you should calm down, and not worry so much.


If I get any calmer, I'll be a corpse. What makes you think I'm worried? Projecting?

Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".


Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Z-clipped: It's troubling that so few Americans grasp the idea.


You obviously haven't seen the statistics for the number of people on "government assistance".
 
2013-03-05 01:37:38 PM  

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Believe it our not, adding three zeroes to my paycheck wouldn't improve my life significantly.

Gee, those grapes are probably really sour, anyway.

Z-clipped: Sorry you didn't like my joke.

You absolutely should be.

Z-clipped: Maybe you should calm down, and not worry so much.

If I get any calmer, I'll be a corpse. What makes you think I'm worried? Projecting?

Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Z-clipped: It's troubling that so few Americans grasp the idea.

You obviously haven't seen the statistics for the number of people on "government assistance".


OK, now that it's been established that both of you are smart, rich, and successful, when are you guys going to compare dick sizes?
 
2013-03-05 03:27:15 PM  
This guy makes France sound like some socialist, atheist utopia.  He can get the fark out of the US if he loves it over there so much.
 
2013-03-05 04:54:34 PM  

KrispyKritter: ISO15693: monstera: I used to wait tables, so I'm really getting a kick out of this...but seriously, I start at 20% and let them work their way down...or up. That's my policy and I recommend it.

20%? For a tip? They'd have to be one heck of a server to earn a double tip.

you are the definition of cheap.


Again, one has to ask what the purpose of tipping is.

"Cultural expectation" is a horrible, baseless reason/purpose. If it's a fee, make a fee, clearly quantified up front. If it is a voluntary contribution based on the whim of the customer, there's no justification for deciding someone is "cheap" regardless of how much, if any, they tip.

If it is for the 60 seconds of labor of taking your order and carrying your food from the kitchen to your table, 15% is vastly over-payment. Paying someone $5 for this minute of interaction is $300/hr and being culturally expected to fund this sort of entitlement complex isn't something anyone should do. They are servants for goodness sake, not royal attendants.  They've chosen to serve other people in a menial task ostensibly because they couldn't get batter paying work. Why should we reward their failure with $300/hr for light walking?

Having said that, I still generously tip 10% if the service is good, and that is certainly not cheap.
 
2013-03-05 04:55:38 PM  
batter = better
 
2013-03-05 07:32:13 PM  

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.


Introduce yourself to Max Weber and learn just where work ethics come from and what they mean. Hint: they don't have a lot to do with chasing the maximum number of small green pieces of paper.
 
2013-03-05 07:38:45 PM  

Solid State Vittles: OK, now that it's been established that both of you are smart, rich, and successful, when are you guys going to compare dick sizes?


When they make something large enough to measure mine in any meaningful way besides, "HOLY CRAP!"

/amidoinitrite?
 
2013-03-05 07:41:39 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: untaken_name: Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Introduce yourself to Max Weber and learn just where work ethics come from and what they mean. Hint: they don't have a lot to do with chasing the maximum number of small green pieces of paper.


When does your unemployment run out? Or have you already moved on to welfare? No one's chasing the small green pieces of paper, guy. They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.
 
2013-03-05 08:48:12 PM  

untaken_name: They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.



So the only way you can get pretty women is by spending money on them?  it's too bad you won't ever know what it's like not to go through life with a stubby.  If only you had a bigger penis...it's a shame, really.
 
2013-03-05 11:07:54 PM  

untaken_name: i upped my meds-up yours: untaken_name: Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Introduce yourself to Max Weber and learn just where work ethics come from and what they mean. Hint: they don't have a lot to do with chasing the maximum number of small green pieces of paper.

When does your unemployment run out? Or have you already moved on to welfare? No one's chasing the small green pieces of paper, guy. They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.


If you seriously believe this nonsense (I think you're trolling, myself), then I feel sorry for you. You're going to regret living by these priorities when you're old.

Also, a couple of things:

1. As i upped my meds said, you don't understand what "work ethic" means. Your implication that "jobs are for suckers" shows a pathetically short-sighted understanding of economics.

1.5 Sweden is full of hard-working, educated, healthy, HAPPY people, and has an extremely low income disparity. Swedes understand the concept of "enough", and that it's directly related to happiness. Americans need to figure out that having a rich overclass that is never satisfied makes everyone unhappy, including the rich overclass.

2. ~80% of the people on public assistance are working families who can't make enough at their minimum wage jobs to climb out of poverty. You would, I suppose, counsel them to start their own businesses, with no capital, and no one to buy whatever product they might make? Rather than, I assume, raising the minimum wage enough to allow then to have a modicum of disposable income they could use to stimulate the economy. No, I'm sure you would prefer to funnel that money into the pockets of someone who already makes "real money", since we all know that rich people spend the same percentage of their income as poor people, and they love to "create jobs" in a market with reduced demand.

3. The difference between us is that you're desperate to display your status with things like "nice cars", and are trying to attract a beautiful woman with money, where I'm unconcerned with what some douchebag I don't even know thinks of my material possessions, and have managed to attract a beautiful, intelligent woman by having self-confidence that isn't tied up in those kinds of things.

4. The most valuable thing in life is time spent with people you love, and doing things you love to do (that includes work). Ask any old person, rich or poor, and they'll tell you I'm right. I only wish I was as smart as my wife; it took me until age 33 to figure this out, but she got it at 23, which consequently was right around when we got married.
 
2013-03-05 11:38:50 PM  

Limp_Penis: untaken_name: They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.


So the only way you can get pretty women is by spending money on them?  it's too bad you won't ever know what it's like not to go through life with a stubby.  If only you had a bigger penis...it's a shame, really.


Right. We all know the world's most beautiful women only love nerds for their brains. That's really common. It's completely unknown for gorgeous women to flock to rich men. Never happens. Oh, and why are you so interested in my penis? I recognize your attempt to goad me into showing you my enormous cock but if you think you're the first one to try it, you're delusional. Well, you're obviously delusional anyway, so I guess it's moot.
 
2013-03-05 11:41:15 PM  

Z-clipped: Rather than, I assume, raising the minimum wage enough to allow then to have a modicum of disposable income they could use to stimulate the economy.


Let me stop you right here. Minimum wage increases hurt people with minimum wage jobs the most. Can you figure out how this seeming paradox could possibly be true? If you get stuck, there are resources on the internet that can help. Until you understand simple concepts like this, we can't have a real discussion.
 
2013-03-06 12:19:20 AM  

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Rather than, I assume, raising the minimum wage enough to allow then to have a modicum of disposable income they could use to stimulate the economy.

Let me stop you right here. Minimum wage increases hurt people with minimum wage jobs the most. Can you figure out how this seeming paradox could possibly be true? If you get stuck, there are resources on the internet that can help. Until you understand simple concepts like this, we can't have a real discussion.


Yeah, yeah, I've heard this one before. It can be conclusively deduced from economic first principles, if you're willing to completely ignore the effect of increased purchasing power. However, if you pull your head out of your Econ 101 textbook, and crack open a history book, you'll see that it tends not to work that way in the real world.

There is certainly a peak in the benefit that can be realized from a minimum wage increase, but given that the minimum has lagged behind inflation for quite a while, we're WELL to the left of that peak at the moment.
 
2013-03-06 12:57:34 PM  

untaken_name: Oh, and why are you so interested in my penis? I recognize your attempt to goad me into showing you my enormous cock but if you think you're the first one to try it, you're delusional.


rlv.zcache.com
 
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