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(NYPost)   Hello, my name is Jason and I'll be your server tonight. Our special is the whiniest article about waiters you'll read this year. It's served over a bed of snobbery with a NYPost glaze. And just so you know, there is a tipping wank surcharge   (nypost.com) divider line 245
    More: Dumbass, party service  
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16826 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 7:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 06:11:32 PM
Strangely, New York waitrons (my generic term for both sexes of waitstaff) don't even serve anything anymore.

Uh, there are already several gender neutral terms for that. In fact you actually used one in the definition of your made-up word.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-04 07:22:41 PM
I've heard "waitrons" around Boston, but not often.

I don't even need to know your name

If she's cute I'll try to remember her name, but I've never followed up.

Once I got a message on my answering machine from a waitress asking for a date and reminding me that we had met at her restaurant a few days ago. Except I never ate at her restaurant or met her. I never knew if she was the victim of a typo or a fake number.
 
2013-03-04 07:51:01 PM
(And in France, I've been baffled to get turned away from an entirely empty establishment at 6 p.m. because all tables are already reserved - for diners who intend to show up at 7:30 or 8 or 8:15. Don't they want my money in the meantime?)

Maybe they picked up on the fact that you're a pretentious dick and couldn't be bothered to deal with you.
 
2013-03-04 07:52:49 PM
Actually, it's an entirely predictable article written by someone who's merely been instructed to generate page hits and knows that anything remotely tipping-related is one of the five easiest trolls to pull off on the internet.
 
2013-03-04 07:57:56 PM
Oh, its this thread again.
 
2013-03-04 07:58:25 PM
t1.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-04 08:00:45 PM
Ugh, go away Kyle Smith. Forget being punchable, he has the kind of face that makes you want to sink a rusty screwdriver into it.
 
2013-03-04 08:00:57 PM
Headline of the year material lol, loved it.
 
2013-03-04 08:01:05 PM
how do we summon 'sponsored link, no comments allowed'?
 
2013-03-04 08:01:20 PM
"Strangely, New York waitrons (my generic term for both sexes of waitstaff) don't even serve anything anymore. "

I bet you eat a lot of spit
 
2013-03-04 08:03:01 PM
Wow. What's that guy's fark handle?
 
2013-03-04 08:06:00 PM
I just had a bad ecperience at a bar, and I thought to myself that I'd be better off just drinking at home.

If you can't hack it at a restaurant, just eat at home. Or go to Planet Hollywood in Times Square. Trust me, the waiters/waitresses aren't as annoying there.
 
2013-03-04 08:06:48 PM
Holy shiat. What a pretentious douchebag. I have zero experience in the food service industry, but if I were a waitress I'd be very tempted to hawk a loogie in his food. What an ass.
 
2013-03-04 08:07:33 PM
I'm shocked that the NY Post writers are whiny douchebags.
 
2013-03-04 08:07:47 PM
i1079.photobucket.com
Son of a B*tch, Kyle
 
2013-03-04 08:07:50 PM
Get a job, morans!

webpages.charter.net
 
2013-03-04 08:07:59 PM
FTFA: <i>It's the difference between a country where the children act like grown-ups and one where the grown-ups act like children.</i>

No, it's the difference between a country with a minimum wage you can actually live off and a minimum wage that has to be supplemented by desperate begging and even then isn't enough to cover everything.
 
2013-03-04 08:09:18 PM
I generally hate the entitled waiter attitude, but this guy is grade A douche
 
2013-03-04 08:10:40 PM

timujin: (And in France, I've been baffled to get turned away from an entirely empty establishment at 6 p.m. because all tables are already reserved - for diners who intend to show up at 7:30 or 8 or 8:15. Don't they want my money in the meantime?)

Maybe they picked up on the fact that you're a pretentious dick and couldn't be bothered to deal with you.


I'm surprised restos in France are even open at 6. But then, they'd expect you to stay for at least two hours.
 
2013-03-04 08:10:40 PM
shiatstain writer writes shiatstain article for shiatstain publication.

*yawn*
 
2013-03-04 08:12:11 PM
The tone of the article makes the author sound like a real ass, but he is right about one thing. Waiters can sometimes be too over the top. I do like the fact that they provide us with their name - seems like common courtesy. But what I really don't like are those waiters with too much personality. You know the type. They can't wait to show everyone at the table how witty they are ("The fish is so fresh, as soon as you give me your order, I phone it in to our guy who's at the pier with his fishing pole!"), and they start spewing hyperbole when describing certain dishes ("If I could only eat one thing for the rest of my life, it would be this caramel pudding cake. LITERALLY! There's nothing on the face of the earth that can compare to this miracle.")

Yes Mr. Waiter, I do appreciate your assistance, but I didn't choose to dine with you. I chose to dine with the other people in my party. I really don't want to feel obligated to laugh at your jokes, and I don't want to be your friend. I'd like for you to just assist the people in my party to have a nice time. You aren't part of the party, so please don't act like you are. Thank you.
 
2013-03-04 08:14:03 PM

shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

[webpages.charter.net image 450x600]


That's a 'shop.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-04 08:14:38 PM
they start spewing hyperbole when describing certain dishes

Some of their enthusiasm is scripted and mandatory, at least in the midrange chains.
 
2013-03-04 08:16:49 PM
Well, someone's bitter.
 
2013-03-04 08:16:55 PM

Atomic Spunk: shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

[webpages.charter.net image 450x600]

That's a 'shop.


Yes, I know. Just thought it would get a chuckle here.
 
2013-03-04 08:17:23 PM
I'm glad tipping is not customary here. Staff get paid a reasonable wage, so despite their suggestions that we should tip, the vast majority of us don't. Those that do might leave 2 or 3 bucks, tops.

I think the whole idea of tipping is a bit strange. You have an employer. I give them money when I purchase food/services. Let them pay you. I shouldn't have to!

I still tip when I'm in a country where it's customary.
 
2013-03-04 08:19:18 PM
 
2013-03-04 08:19:49 PM

Atomic Spunk: The tone of the article makes the author sound like a real ass, but he is right about one thing. Waiters can sometimes be too over the top. I do like the fact that they provide us with their name - seems like common courtesy. But what I really don't like are those waiters with too much personality. You know the type. They can't wait to show everyone at the table how witty they are ("The fish is so fresh, as soon as you give me your order, I phone it in to our guy who's at the pier with his fishing pole!"), and they start spewing hyperbole when describing certain dishes ("If I could only eat one thing for the rest of my life, it would be this caramel pudding cake. LITERALLY! There's nothing on the face of the earth that can compare to this miracle.")

Yes Mr. Waiter, I do appreciate your assistance, but I didn't choose to dine with you. I chose to dine with the other people in my party. I really don't want to feel obligated to laugh at your jokes, and I don't want to be your friend. I'd like for you to just assist the people in my party to have a nice time. You aren't part of the party, so please don't act like you are. Thank you.


"Uncle owen the waiterator is out of whack again. got any service droids t' fix this thing up?"snark
 
2013-03-04 08:20:49 PM

Ritley: I generally hate the entitled waiter attitude, but this guy is grade A douche


Everyone involved in the charade is despicable, and the experience of dining out in a large urban centre is what made me learn to cook well and throw memorable dinner parties where the attitude was cheerful and the wine endless.
 
2013-03-04 08:21:06 PM

timujin: (And in France, I've been baffled to get turned away from an entirely empty establishment at 6 p.m. because all tables are already reserved - for diners who intend to show up at 7:30 or 8 or 8:15. Don't they want my money in the meantime?)

Maybe they picked up on the fact that you're a pretentious dick and couldn't be bothered to deal with you.


You mean they thought he was French too?

Not wanting to agree, but sometimes even whinging twunts have a point because even though he isn't really on point about most of the small places I have been to I do agree that the places where waiting is reduced to a set of rules that enforce an overly-interactive experience are abhorrent to me and I hate even more that the people I can get to (staff) have absolutely no control over how annoying they have to be to keep their shiatty jobs and the people who actually deserve to be eviscerated with a mad badger (management/ownagement) I can't touch because who can get to these bastards in their beach chalets and massive yachts when even a brainy, meaty person such as myself can't even get more than a fortnight's vacation time and who can afford to save enough to stay at a decent hotel so you can relax while you're on your mad revenge-fueled spree on the wages you get these days I mean really it's enough to make you go mental it really is.
 
2013-03-04 08:21:21 PM

mahuika: Strangely, New York waitrons (my generic term for both sexes of waitstaff) don't even serve anything anymore.

Uh, there are already several gender neutral terms for that. In fact you actually used one in the definition of your made-up word.


I have heard it used. By the most pretentious ass of a manager who ever circled tables at a restaurant.
Back in the late 70's.
His job was to write up the over the top descriptions of the menu items, among other things.
I was a chef, and learned that I did not like him from the other waitstaff.
/He needed permission to enter the kitchen.
//We trained him to ask for it.
///He was one of the first people I ever met who shaved his head because he was going bald. Before it was cool.

Oh, and if you are out there, Monta (his real first name) Naomi did not like you staring at her ample cleavage and she was a Damned Good waitress.
 
2013-03-04 08:22:06 PM
I used to wait tables, so I'm really getting a kick out of this...but seriously, I start at 20% and let them work their way down...or up. That's my policy and I recommend it.
 
2013-03-04 08:22:09 PM

teeny: Holy shiat. What a pretentious douchebag.


No, no... Kyle isn't pretentious. He's just a little bit better than most people, because he "...tries to spend a week or two every year" in France. I don't know how you missed his suave internationalism, as he managed to offhandedly mention it twice in a very short article, with the same phony-casual manner in which television cops use chopsticks to eat Chinese food.
 
2013-03-04 08:22:16 PM
This guy deserves to be shot in the face ordering in the drive thru of a Jack In the Box.  Even the people at the supermarket should drop a deuce in his shopping bags.

I don't want to eat at anymore NYC restaurants just because I might run into this asshole and slay him in some horrendous, front page worthy fashion.
 
2013-03-04 08:23:10 PM

skinink: If you can't hack it at a restaurant, just eat at home. Or go to Planet Hollywood in Times Square. Trust me, the waiters/waitresses aren't as annoying there.


Something tells me he already is.  If he's having to fend off busboys before he's done with his meal, something tells me he's not going to the cooler than cool joints he thinks he is.  Turn and burn is for isn't the m.o. at places that serve $28 slivers of trout.  He's been spending his time at Red Lobster.
 
2013-03-04 08:23:59 PM
A columnist in New York talking about how he only travels to France, and talking about how great the French waitstaffers are as compared to U.S. waitstaffers, who starts off insulting the U.S. ones and then bashes them.  By the time I finished that smug article I wished there was a way to email a ninja to the writer that upon opening the attachment flung a series of ninja stars into the writer's face.

The only thing to make that article more pretentious or douche-tastic, would be that in France he's dining in 5 star restaurants and in New York he's dining at Applebees and comparing the two saying "The 5 star French restaurants are so much better than Applebees that American restaurants all suck and should be more like the French." and listing the high dollar, or high euro since it's France, snobby, pretentious French food.
 
2013-03-04 08:24:07 PM

monstera: I used to wait tables, so I'm really getting a kick out of this...but seriously, I start at 20% and let them work their way down...or up. That's my policy and I recommend it.


20%? For a tip? They'd have to be one heck of a server to earn a double tip.
 
2013-03-04 08:25:17 PM

ZAZ: they start spewing hyperbole when describing certain dishes

Some of their enthusiasm is scripted and mandatory, at least in the midrange chains.


Which makes it even more obnoxious than genuine enthusiasm, IMO.

I've done my time in the food service industry. And I have to agree with the writer's message (if not so much his tone). Tell me what I need to know. Answer my questions. Bring me my shiat. And be available should I realize I need something else from you. I'll easily slap 20% down for efficient and practically unnoticeable service. Servers should be like refs--if they're doing they're job right, you forget they're even there. But if you try to be my best friend/a cheerleader/performance art, you'll probably only get 10% (provided you still did the other stuff, too).
 
2013-03-04 08:25:45 PM

Barricaded Gunman: teeny: Holy shiat. What a pretentious douchebag.

No, no... Kyle isn't pretentious. He's just a little bit better than most people, because he "...tries to spend a week or two every year" in France. I don't know how you missed his suave internationalism, as he managed to offhandedly mention it twice in a very short article, with the same phony-casual manner in which television cops use chopsticks to eat Chinese food.


It's conceits like "a week or two in France" merits an attribution of "suave internationalism" that really highlights the provincial side of New York City. Hell, I spent a month in France biking, shagging and learning how much wine got me drunk quickest and I was just 19. Learning to appreciate the preparation of good food and better wine came later, and not in NYC.
 
2013-03-04 08:26:03 PM

Iplaybass: I think the whole idea of tipping is a bit strange. You have an employer. I give them money when I purchase food/services. Let them pay you. I shouldn't have to!


How DARE you bring logic into a tipping thread! I should spit in your food and throw your steak on the floor!!
 
2013-03-04 08:26:52 PM
In France, where I try to spend a week or two every year,

This guy probably uses "summer" as a verb.
 
2013-03-04 08:28:23 PM
Hey asshole,it's the server's job to be the friendly face that you associate with the restaurant. They are expected to be friendly, not matter how much of a prick you are. They have to smile and take it when you go into asshole mode. Not only that, they have to walk away from your little shiat-festival and walk up to every other table in the place as if there isn't a giant douche at table #13, because tables don't want to hear you badmouth other customers. Not only that, they can tell when 'Jason's is faking being happy, and tips suffer as a result.

See, I know you have such an inflated sense of self-worth that Jason thinks he has to kiss you ass, the truth is that his job depends on it, and all the rest of his income for the next hour or two depends on it. Most likely,he already figured out that you aren't worth losing sleep over. Imagine the service you'd get if you weren't preceeded by a giant sign that said 'douchebag'.

Of course, this could also be that annoying New Yorker 'I get to be a dick because of where I live.' bullshiat.
 
2013-03-04 08:28:30 PM

D2theMcV: ZAZ: they start spewing hyperbole when describing certain dishes

Some of their enthusiasm is scripted and mandatory, at least in the midrange chains.

Which makes it even more obnoxious than genuine enthusiasm, IMO.

I've done my time in the food service industry. And I have to agree with the writer's message (if not so much his tone). Tell me what I need to know. Answer my questions. Bring me my shiat. And be available should I realize I need something else from you. I'll easily slap 20% down for efficient and practically unnoticeable service. Servers should be like refs--if they're doing they're job right, you forget they're even there. But if you try to be my best friend/a cheerleader/performance art, you'll probably only get 10% (provided you still did the other stuff, too).


I agree with this post. I've done it too, and a career server once whispered to me "for better tips, back the fark off". Sound advice.

Of course, I was just trying to make rent, and not kill time between unsuccesful auditions/blowjobs.
 
2013-03-04 08:28:44 PM
I dig this sushi place I go to. The staff is polite, concise, and to the point. Order a drink? It's out in 3 minutes. The only time they stop by the table is if they notice your drinks are near empty, to bring the food, or when there is an empty plate and take it away.

I like it. They don't make shiatty comments about the weather or anything else. They know I'm there for one thing, and it to check out cute Japanese chicks and eat some goddamn sushi.
 
2013-03-04 08:30:12 PM

ISO15693: monstera: I used to wait tables, so I'm really getting a kick out of this...but seriously, I start at 20% and let them work their way down...or up. That's my policy and I recommend it.

20%? For a tip? They'd have to be one heck of a server to earn a double tip.


For most of the people that I know, 15%-20% is the standard tip. I think that's about the average for dining out in the U.S..
 
2013-03-04 08:36:11 PM

vudukungfu: mahuika: Strangely, New York waitrons (my generic term for both sexes of waitstaff) don't even serve anything anymore.

Uh, there are already several gender neutral terms for that. In fact you actually used one in the definition of your made-up word.

I have heard it used. By the most pretentious ass of a manager who ever circled tables at a restaurant.
Back in the late 70's.
His job was to write up the over the top descriptions of the menu items, among other things.
I was a chef, and learned that I did not like him from the other waitstaff.
/He needed permission to enter the kitchen.
//We trained him to ask for it.
///He was one of the first people I ever met who shaved his head because he was going bald. Before it was cool.

Oh, and if you are out there, Monta (his real first name) Naomi did not like you staring at her ample cleavage and she was a Damned Good waitress.


The hell she didn't, she kept shoving them in my face and jiggling them.
 
2013-03-04 08:36:37 PM

timujin: (And in France, I've been baffled to get turned away from an entirely empty establishment at 6 p.m. because all tables are already reserved - for diners who intend to show up at 7:30 or 8 or 8:15. Don't they want my money in the meantime?)

Maybe they picked up on the fact that you're a pretentious dick and couldn't be bothered to deal with you.


THIS!
 
2013-03-04 08:37:13 PM

timujin: (And in France, I've been baffled to get turned away from an entirely empty establishment at 6 p.m. because all tables are already reserved - for diners who intend to show up at 7:30 or 8 or 8:15. Don't they want my money in the meantime?)

Maybe they picked up on the fact that you're a pretentious dick and couldn't be bothered to deal with you.


Wow, he gushes over how spectacularly awesome the French restaurants are, and then immediately badmouths them? Is there anybody this 'special' farktard can go without biatching about?

I also like how he biatches about how over-attentive the New York servers are, then whines about how they "disappear" when HE decides that he wants to stoop to ordering from them.

"Servant", indeed...
 
2013-03-04 08:37:17 PM
If its a pricey place, I like waiters with a smile, being polite and especially knowledgeable about the food.  That last part is important.  If I ask for a recommendation, please don't tell me everything is good.  That's bullshiat.   You suggest a good dish and wine pairing, that's an automatic increase in the tip.

I personally don't like the overly familiar waiter with the jokes.  I thought the writer sounded like a real a-hole, but he's correct on one point - I'm not dining with the waiter.

The only exception is if I'm eating at the bar and the bartender is serving.  OR the waiter is like the cute Asian waitress I had in Santa Monica a few days ago.  She was good looking and slighty flirty (I dont care if she was just trolling for tips - it worked).
 
2013-03-04 08:41:54 PM
There's a local fine dining place, part of a smallish corporate chain, that I eat at once or twice a week. Love the food, and the service is impeccable.

The corp management enforces the relentlessly cheerful attitude, and when I'm eating at the bar, I sometimes see customers acting like complete dicks.  One of the bartenders has started writing cranky/funny notes about them on napkins and sliding them under the edge of my plate while I'm dining.

Sometimes I'll find a way to annoy the person bothering her.  One guy who had to be in his 60s was relentlessly hitting on her (she's around 25 and stunning). Asking for her home address (so he could drop by!), etc.  I spotted his wedding ring, asked him if he was married.  Asked him if he had any pictures of his wife. Said I thought she was hot, do they swing, we should do a threesome.

She and the other bartender just about died trying to keep from laughing.
 
2013-03-04 08:44:07 PM
The worst part of dealing with American waitrons is we're forced to be nice to these creepy ex-darlings of their high-school theater departments because of the unspoken hostage drama that's taking place behind the scenes with our food.

I
know everyone is raging on the author, but come on, that's comedy gold.
 
2013-03-04 08:44:19 PM
I'm sure the overly charismatic waiting staff are just trying to get recognized by some rich showbiz type.  As for the douchbag writing the article, i'm with the rest of you.
 
2013-03-04 08:44:22 PM

Atomic Spunk: The tone of the article makes the author sound like a real ass, but he is right about one thing. Waiters can sometimes be too over the top. I do like the fact that they provide us with their name - seems like common courtesy. But what I really don't like are those waiters with too much personality. You know the type. They can't wait to show everyone at the table how witty they are ("The fish is so fresh, as soon as you give me your order, I phone it in to our guy who's at the pier with his fishing pole!"), and they start spewing hyperbole when describing certain dishes ("If I could only eat one thing for the rest of my life, it would be this caramel pudding cake. LITERALLY! There's nothing on the face of the earth that can compare to this miracle.")

Yes Mr. Waiter, I do appreciate your assistance, but I didn't choose to dine with you. I chose to dine with the other people in my party. I really don't want to feel obligated to laugh at your jokes, and I don't want to be your friend. I'd like for you to just assist the people in my party to have a nice time. You aren't part of the party, so please don't act like you are. Thank you.


Why don't you go ahead and write that down on a notecard and hand it out the next time you eat at a restaurant, since psychic ability is NOT a prerequisite for the job. Also keep in mind that people would rather have an over the top server than a sullen jerk. Your waiter isn't actually THAT happy to see you, but he has a job to do, and part of that job is to make a couple of hundred different people happy every night.
 
2013-03-04 08:46:57 PM
I like to know the name of my waiter/waitress.  I like the ability to refer to my waiter/waitress by name.  It makes building rapport between the two of us easier.  Plus I've never known a waiter/waitress not to appreciate that effort.  Sometimes it doesn't result in anything, sometimes it makes sure that my drink never goes empty.  Never have I never entertained the idea that I was so above the waitstaff that I didn't know or care about the waiter/waitress's name.
 
2013-03-04 08:49:24 PM

Iplaybass: I'm glad tipping is not customary here. Staff get paid a reasonable wage, so despite their suggestions that we should tip, the vast majority of us don't. Those that do might leave 2 or 3 bucks, tops.

I think the whole idea of tipping is a bit strange. You have an employer. I give them money when I purchase food/services. Let them pay you. I shouldn't have to!

I still tip when I'm in a country where it's customary.


Not only do the restaurants pay absolute shiat, they lobby and fight to continue paying that wage every time minimum wage goes up. It was $2.11/hr in '90 when I started waiting tables, and the people have gotten a 2 cent raise in 22 years.
 
2013-03-04 08:49:40 PM

shotglasss: Get a job, morans!


That's photoshopped.
 
2013-03-04 08:49:53 PM
Kyle Smith is a pedantic, stuck-up, dickwadish, homophobic Masshole from East Longmeadow who can go fark himself with a turbocharged dirt devil.  I hope every server in the USA looks up his picture, and when he visits, wipes their ass on his plate before "serving" it up to him.  But he'd probably secretly like that.

/paid for college waiting tables, and enjoyed 95% of my time with customers
//it is the restaurant owner/management who force unnatural cheerfulness and mandatory scripts wait staff most of the time
///there are bad people in customer service everywhere just as there are nasty, bad people who call themselves "journalists" or "authors"
 
2013-03-04 08:52:25 PM

shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

[webpages.charter.net image 450x600]


That turned out to be a fake.  The receipt was photoshopped.
 
2013-03-04 08:53:06 PM

calbert: shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 500x373]

Here's The Authentic Receipt At The Heart Of The "1% Tip" Hoax Story


earthworm2.0: shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

That's photoshopped.


Yes, I know!
 
2013-03-04 08:54:21 PM

ISO15693: monstera: I used to wait tables, so I'm really getting a kick out of this...but seriously, I start at 20% and let them work their way down...or up. That's my policy and I recommend it.

20%? For a tip? They'd have to be one heck of a server to earn a double tip.


you are the definition of cheap.
 
2013-03-04 08:59:26 PM

KrispyKritter: you are the definition of cheap.


In his mind, they're lucky to be getting that 10%. If they want a better wage, the should get a job that doesn't rely on tipping. He's already paid for the food (the price of which includes the service) and they'd damn well better not grat him.
 
2013-03-04 09:01:12 PM

SirEattonHogg: If its a pricey place, I like waiters with a smile, being polite and especially knowledgeable about the food.  That last part is important.  If I ask for a recommendation, please don't tell me everything is good.  That's bullshiat.   You suggest a good dish and wine pairing, that's an automatic increase in the tip.

I personally don't like the overly familiar waiter with the jokes.  I thought the writer sounded like a real a-hole, but he's correct on one point - I'm not dining with the waiter.

The only exception is if I'm eating at the bar and the bartender is serving.  OR the waiter is like the cute Asian waitress I had in Santa Monica a few days ago.  She was good looking and slighty flirty (I dont care if she was just trolling for tips - it worked).


I'm getting a kick out of everyone here that thinks waitstaff has a secret book that tells them the criteria for each customer.

'Oooooh! It's "Bob". Remember, he wants you to be knowledgeable, but not friendly. Wait guys, we have to see where he sits, because if he sits at the bar, THEN he wants you to be his buddy. Oh, I almost forgot, if he sits in Soon-Yi's section, she's supposed to flirt with him. But nobody else, OK? Wow, it's a good thing we have this written down for every potential customer on the planet, isn't it?'.
 
2013-03-04 09:02:54 PM
Frankly, gar♥♥çon,

This is where I stopped taking you seriously as a human being.
 
2013-03-04 09:03:29 PM

Great Janitor: I like to know the name of my waiter/waitress.  I like the ability to refer to my waiter/waitress by name.  It makes building rapport between the two of us easier.  Plus I've never known a waiter/waitress not to appreciate that effort.  Sometimes it doesn't result in anything, sometimes it makes sure that my drink never goes empty.  Never have I never entertained the idea that I was so above the waitstaff that I didn't know or care about the waiter/waitress's name.


This guy gets it...
 
2013-03-04 09:04:59 PM

Meatybrain: timujin: (And in France, I've been baffled to get turned away from an entirely empty establishment at 6 p.m. because all tables are already reserved - for diners who intend to show up at 7:30 or 8 or 8:15. Don't they want my money in the meantime?)

Maybe they picked up on the fact that you're a pretentious dick and couldn't be bothered to deal with you.

You mean they thought he was French too?

Not wanting to agree, but sometimes even whinging twunts have a point because even though he isn't really on point about most of the small places I have been to I do agree that the places where waiting is reduced to a set of rules that enforce an overly-interactive experience are abhorrent to me and I hate even more that the people I can get to (staff) have absolutely no control over how annoying they have to be to keep their shiatty jobs and the people who actually deserve to be eviscerated with a mad badger (management/ownagement) I can't touch because who can get to these bastards in their beach chalets and massive yachts when even a brainy, meaty person such as myself can't even get more than a fortnight's vacation time and who can afford to save enough to stay at a decent hotel so you can relax while you're on your mad revenge-fueled spree on the wages you get these days I mean really it's enough to make you go mental it really is.

i22.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-04 09:05:07 PM
You know, not being a dick should apply to every facet of life as much as possible.  You're no better than the person whose job it is to provide service to you, no matter what your inflated sense of yourself might tell you to the contrary.  Your waiter, your mechanic, the kid who bags your groceries, etc., all have names and families and stuff going on in their lives.  We all think we're kings and queens in America, but the fact is, we rent our servants, and we share our servants, and, come to think of it, they're servers, not servants.  They're people, doing a job, usually a kinda shiatty one, so just quick being a dick.  All of you, but especially you, Kyle.  You are better than no one.  Would you like a nice big slice of humble pie for desert?  It's on the house.
 
2013-03-04 09:05:53 PM

shotglasss: calbert: shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 500x373]

Here's The Authentic Receipt At The Heart Of The "1% Tip" Hoax Story

earthworm2.0: shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

That's photoshopped.

Yes, I know!


I was late to the party and acted like I was first. My bad.
 
2013-03-04 09:09:42 PM
20% of my order's value? To carry a note to the kitchen and a plate back? Nice try, assholes.
 
2013-03-04 09:11:11 PM
Now waitstaff knows what he looks like.
 
2013-03-04 09:11:14 PM

Martstar: You know, not being a dick should apply to every facet of life as much as possible.  You're no better than the person whose job it is to provide service to you, no matter what your inflated sense of yourself might tell you to the contrary.  Your waiter, your mechanic, the kid who bags your groceries, etc., all have names and families and stuff going on in their lives.  We all think we're kings and queens in America, but the fact is, we rent our servants, and we share our servants, and, come to think of it, they're servers, not servants.  They're people, doing a job, usually a kinda shiatty one, so just quick being a dick.  All of you, but especially you, Kyle.  You are better than no one.  Would you like a nice big slice of humble pie for desert?  It's on the house.


Yeah, the "servant" thing was absolute bullshiat. If I ran a restaurant, this Guy's picture would be in the back, and the serving staff would still have to treat him politely, but they would not be expected to exert a single erg of extra energy on the dude. Take his order, drop his food, drop his check. If he wonders why the Jones family keeps getting drink refills awhile he has to wait, it's going turn out that THEY never wrote a screed about how "bad" having an attentive waitstaff is.
 
2013-03-04 09:11:35 PM

Mikey1969:
Why don't you go ahead and write that down on a notecard and hand it out the next time you eat at a restaurant, since psychic ability is NOT a prerequisite for the job. Also keep in mind that people would rather have an over the top server than a sullen jerk. Your waiter isn't actually THAT happy to see you, but he has a job to do, and part of that job is to make a couple of hundred different people happy every night.


No, I don't expect them to be psychics. What I DO expect is that they have a modicum of emotional intelligence, which may lead them to the conclusion that THEY aren't supposed to be the center of attention at our gathering, and I didn't show up at the restaurant to see their "act". I'd like for them to be helpful and courteous. That's more than enough to keep most people happy.

Of course I would rather have an over the top server than a sullen jerk, but why are there only two choices? Perhaps you weren't aware that it's possible for a waiter not to be over the top, and also not be a sullen jerk. Amazing, huh?

If my waiter isn't THAT happy to see me, I would really appreciate it if he didn't put on the phony face and voice and treat me like I were his long lost friend. A helpful attitude is all that I ask for. Don't try to be witty. Don't kiss my ass. Don't do anything that might make a reasonable person roll their eyes. That's not too much to ask for . And when waiters are wise enough to do this, I will give, at minimum, a 20% tip.
 
2013-03-04 09:11:48 PM
you know who has good waitresses? waffle house. my coffee's never empty, my order's always right, they're no-nonsense about writing down what i want to eat, and if i'm sitting there for a while after finishing they'll refill my coffee again and ask if i want anything else. otherwise they ignore me. i didn't see the article as tipping-related, but those ladies (they always are) earn their 20-25%.

/"these creepy ex-darlings of their high-school theater departments"nails the average wait-person, even at chili's or some such, so very well.
 
2013-03-04 09:14:10 PM

KrispyKritter: ISO15693: monstera: I used to wait tables, so I'm really getting a kick out of this...but seriously, I start at 20% and let them work their way down...or up. That's my policy and I recommend it.

20%? For a tip? They'd have to be one heck of a server to earn a double tip.

you are the definition of cheap.


I think he was kidding... I may be wrong though.
 
2013-03-04 09:18:59 PM
I have to agree. I don't want my waiter to have personality unless I ask him a question involving his or her opinion of a dish. A really good waiter should be almost unnoticeable, but accessible when needed.
 
2013-03-04 09:20:38 PM

Atomic Spunk: Mikey1969:
Why don't you go ahead and write that down on a notecard and hand it out the next time you eat at a restaurant, since psychic ability is NOT a prerequisite for the job. Also keep in mind that people would rather have an over the top server than a sullen jerk. Your waiter isn't actually THAT happy to see you, but he has a job to do, and part of that job is to make a couple of hundred different people happy every night.

No, I don't expect them to be psychics. What I DO expect is that they have a modicum of emotional intelligence, which may lead them to the conclusion that THEY aren't supposed to be the center of attention at our gathering, and I didn't show up at the restaurant to see their "act". I'd like for them to be helpful and courteous. That's more than enough to keep most people happy.

Of course I would rather have an over the top server than a sullen jerk, but why are there only two choices? Perhaps you weren't aware that it's possible for a waiter not to be over the top, and also not be a sullen jerk. Amazing, huh?

If my waiter isn't THAT happy to see me, I would really appreciate it if he didn't put on the phony face and voice and treat me like I were his long lost friend. A helpful attitude is all that I ask for. Don't try to be witty. Don't kiss my ass. Don't do anything that might make a reasonable person roll their eyes. That's not too much to ask for . And when waiters are wise enough to do this, I will give, at minimum, a 20% tip.


The point is that servers have to hit some median setting and don't really have time to figure out what every table's special needs are, and often err on the side of caution.

Of course, I seem to be the only person who hasn't been waited on by an overly excited server, they're nice, professional and well informed when we go out.
 
2013-03-04 09:22:05 PM

NobleHam: I have to agree. I don't want my waiter to have personality unless I ask him a question involving his or her opinion of a dish. A really good waiter should be almost unnoticeable, but accessible when needed.


Because at $2.13/hr they have time to be there just for you.
 
2013-03-04 09:22:57 PM

Mikey1969: Not only do the restaurants pay absolute shiat, they lobby and fight to continue paying that wage every time minimum wage goes up. It was $2.11/hr in '90 when I started waiting tables, and the people have gotten a 2 cent raise in 22 years.


So don't work for tips.
 
2013-03-04 09:24:43 PM
I don't like an overly eager waiter/waitress either. No need to ask me if everything's alright every 5 minutes, just look over at my table every now and then and if I need you I'll flag you down. Just make sure you actually do that, nothing more annoying than sitting there for 10 minutes waiting for your server to quit chatting up the cute bartender long enough to glance my way.
 
2013-03-04 09:25:38 PM
Waitron (Or Trons, as they are referred to here in Atlanta) has been around since the 1970's.  And most waitstaff is about that robotic.
 
2013-03-04 09:26:22 PM

Mikey1969: NobleHam: I have to agree. I don't want my waiter to have personality unless I ask him a question involving his or her opinion of a dish. A really good waiter should be almost unnoticeable, but accessible when needed.

Because at $2.13/hr they have time to be there just for you.


Weird, many can do this JUST fine.
 
2013-03-04 09:26:27 PM

rga184: The hell she didn't, she kept shoving them in my face and jiggling them.


Double mastectomy. 1980
Cancer sucks.
She lived another year.
 
2013-03-04 09:28:23 PM
I suppose I was fortunate.  When I was a 'servant' there weren't a lot of jerks like this guy.  Sure, catch me at the end of a long busy shift, and I might tell you the job sucks, the customers suck, but most of the time it's just a job.  People come in to enjoy a meal, you do your best to make it happen, and most folks tip fairly.

Everybody has a bad day, and once you start feeling trod on you can notice every little indignity.  But most days you just brush off the bad ones, you deal with them and move on to the normal customers, and at the end of the night, you get a beer with the rest of the crew, and maybe goof on the one customer you got today like the writer of the article.    If you can't let it roll off your back, please please don't get into the restaurant business, though.  It will make you miserable, cynical, and hypersensitive to any criticism.  But if you can just let it go, you rarely get the drama that makes the papers.
 
2013-03-04 09:30:26 PM
As a chef, I judge places when I go in. I watch the waitstaff, the menu, specials, staffing on the floor, layout, bar, drinks, how long the food takes, presentation, the whole nine. I am a professional, so it behooves me to see how others are doing things, compare and contrast, maybe see if they're trying something that I haven't seen before, or something I have seen before, but are doing better or worse than some. I watch, I take mental notes, if the waitstaff take too long, or do something out of line, or do something that is particularly good, I take a moment to mention it to the manager. Usually after I leave, because no one wants to make a scene and take time away from their watching their own floor.

That being said, there are places I don't go, because the waitstaff are terrible. There are places I don't go because the food isn't to my liking--style, presentation, just plain quality issues. It's not a big deal to go to a place, and realize that it's not your cup of tea. My current favorite is a little breakfast place, they do sandwiches, for lunch, nothing special, but the coffee's good, and the waitstaff let me read and work in peace, and I tip them well enough that they have my coffee and order out fair quick and with a smile. As a customer, you have to communicate your needs to the staff. Being a douche about it isn't really the way to do that.

On the first time through, the staff aren't going to know what you need, unless you communicate with them. There are ways to communicate, "Turn down the hard sell" that aren't douchey. Sometimes that means actually communicating with the staff as people, which our Dear Author seems loathe to do, and instead rely on their magic powerz to read his thoughts and dreams and lay out the perfect experience for him by dint of his sterling reputation as an International Man of Mystery. Maybe he has simply ignored the signs that he's about to walk into a fern bar with plastic plants and smiles, but the staff are doing what their management are trying to project. You can short circuit that, or if the whole staff is on board with it like a chain restaurant that is about to pull out some recockulous cocktails served in special glasses with multicoloered straws and there's a dancing fountain, maybe you might want to rethink your lunch plans. Or go with it, and have a good time, and laugh with the poor bastiches who are enduring the Kahunaville experience, every soul crushing day, and maybe not be a dick about it.

Waitstaff can't read your mind. They will learn your preferences soon enough, if you keep coming back, and aren't a dick. If you don't like the atmosphere, then don't return. Not returning is your vote, being a dick that you're not having a good time because you weren't met with adoration and the "perfect" service that you imagine in your deepest wellspring of the soul, but can't communicate with mere mortals, isn't justified, it just means you're a dick.

It's only food, man. It's lunch. It's dinner. Find places you like, and actually communicate with the staff instead of looking at them as interchangeable cogs. Or servants. Maybe, just maybe, get over the entitlement that YOUR money buys service, and understand that in a good joint, it's ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentleman, and maybe you should act out your role as such.
 
2013-03-04 09:31:01 PM
Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?
 
2013-03-04 09:31:28 PM
Here's what I tweeted to this douche ( huh, auto-correct does douche ):

"­ky­le­*sm­ith[nospam-﹫-backwards]tso­py­n­*co­m first world problems are so annoying, you should probably kill yourself, it's only getting worse, oh the suffering "

So, I'll probably be going to prison for internet threats, even though I am voicing an opinion -- one shared by many.  DAMN MY INDIGNATION!

/ seriously, he should probably kill himself
 
2013-03-04 09:33:29 PM

Mikey1969: NobleHam: I have to agree. I don't want my waiter to have personality unless I ask him a question involving his or her opinion of a dish. A really good waiter should be almost unnoticeable, but accessible when needed.

Because at $2.13/hr they have time to be there just for you.


Yeah, I'm against that. You want tips? farkin' impress me. Being an average waiter? That's not impressive. Juggle knives and a tomato bing bam boom a tomato salad lands on my plate? That's $20 right there.
 
2013-03-04 09:33:52 PM
I love it when people who sit on their ass and do jack and shiat for a living biatch about tipping waiters and waitresses because "they haven't earned it".......

If you think all they do is walk a ticket to the kitchen and drop your food at your table then you should ask Santa Claus for a third brain cell for Christmas to keep the other two company....
 
2013-03-04 09:34:35 PM

mahuika: Strangely, New York waitrons (my generic term for both sexes of waitstaff) don't even serve anything anymore.
Uh, there are already several gender neutral terms for that. In fact you actually used one in the definition of your made-up word.


He didn't say he made up the word. He said that's the word he uses. And it's a legitimate, if rarely used, word.
 
2013-03-04 09:35:23 PM
Kyle knows how to fill a column:  just paste together clips from readers' emails.
 
2013-03-04 09:37:10 PM

MayoBoy: Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?


At any place I've ever worked that waitress would be fired.
 
2013-03-04 09:39:56 PM

MayoBoy: Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?


I'd be pissed to. I'm not the type to sit around after finishing my meal, but if I'm still eating or having a cup of coffee after my meal I could give a rats ass how many people are waiting, I waited my turn they can wait theirs.
 
2013-03-04 09:44:20 PM

Martstar: You know, not being a dick should apply to every facet of life as much as possible.  You're no better than the person whose job it is to provide service to you, no matter what your inflated sense of yourself might tell you to the contrary.  Your waiter, your mechanic, the kid who bags your groceries, etc., all have names and families and stuff going on in their lives.  We all think we're kings and queens in America, but the fact is, we rent our servants, and we share our servants, and, come to think of it, they're servers, not servants.  They're people, doing a job, usually a kinda shiatty one, so just quick being a dick.  All of you, but especially you, Kyle.  You are better than no one.  Would you like a nice big slice of humble pie for desert?  It's on the house.


It's amazing how many of the major religious tenets of the world boil down to "don't be a dick."
 
2013-03-04 09:45:12 PM

fredklein: Iplaybass: I think the whole idea of tipping is a bit strange. You have an employer. I give them money when I purchase food/services. Let them pay you. I shouldn't have to!

How DARE you bring logic into a tipping thread! I should spit in your food and throw your steak on the floor!!


That's not logic.  But whatever gets you to sleep at night.
 
2013-03-04 09:47:35 PM

frontwheeldriver: //it is the restaurant owner/management who force unnatural cheerfulness and mandatory scripts wait staff most of the time


This, a hundred billion times this. I waited tables for 8 years, I would  love to be everything Kyle Smith wants: no socialization of any kind, call me if you need me. Unfortunately the demand for that type of service is low - does this dude think these people actually give a damn about him and want to be his friend?
 
2013-03-04 09:48:32 PM
Kyle: "Hi, I'm Kyle and I will be your New York Post blogger this evening"

Paco: "Hi Kyle, to be honest, I don't care what your name is, what stupid thing you're about to say, that you're tougher and edgier than a sexually ambiguous theater kid or that for some reason you think visiting France or spending $150 on a single meal gives you the authority to be a giant d-bag."

Kyle (smiling inanely): "Well I'm going to continue telling you my opinions anyway."

Paco: "Kyle, wait, you didn't let me reach the best part.  I don't have to tip you shiat, because instead of standing on your feet all day and having to pretend that you like a parade of self righteous high maintenance assholes like yourself, you sit at a Starbucks all day coming up with ways to troll the NY public for $400 a dung heap your editor mistakes as a column.  Any New Yorker who admits they leave 10% tips should be forced to read your film reviews.
 
2013-03-04 09:52:44 PM

Barricaded Gunman: teeny: Holy shiat. What a pretentious douchebag.

No, no... Kyle isn't pretentious. He's just a little bit better than most people, because he "...tries to spend a week or two every year" in France. I don't know how you missed his suave internationalism, as he managed to offhandedly mention it twice in a very short article, with the same phony-casual manner in which television cops use chopsticks to eat Chinese food.


I, too, try to spend a week or two in France every year. And every year I fail completely.
 
2013-03-04 09:55:30 PM

MayoBoy: Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?


Doesn't matter if the restaurant has tablecloths or not, or what they're made of. That isn't acceptable. If you guys have been done for an hour, and are JUST having drinks, then MAYBE your server(Or the manager) tactfully asks if they can free up the table because they have customers that need it, but tact is more important than freeing up the table, and if they feel like they are inconveniencing you at all, then a round of drinks may be in order.

You can ask this, but like I said, you have to be done with everything but drinks, be regulars that people feel comfortable asking this of, or something similar.

**I DO have to say that I hate campers, though. The people who sit at your table and order coffee refill after coffee refill and sit at your table for another hour or two after they've paid, and expect you to keep filling that coffee, or just let them sit there, and then be ready to jump at a moment's notice when they suddenly decide that they have sat at the table so long that they're hungry again, and decide they want to order a side of fries or some such shiat. This is particularly bad when the restaurant s closed, and everything is done but this *one* table, especially when last call is sneaking up...**

I know this isn't what you were describing, I just felt the need to vent.
 
2013-03-04 09:56:11 PM
New York restaurant
New York customer
New york waitstaff

I'm seeing a common theme here.
 
2013-03-04 09:58:26 PM
This idiot writer managed to make a big enough asshole of himself that the thread isn't completely dominated by people airing their restaurant grievances and complaining about tipping culture?... I think that might be a first.

Here's to you, Mr. Pretentious-Inflammatory-Whining-and-Making-No-Actual-Point-Guy!
 
2013-03-04 09:59:36 PM

MayoBoy: Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?


No, you're not right to be pissed off about it because it's a trivial and non-insulting request that shows she's trying to balance your needs with the needs of other guests.

You certianly don't have to comply, but getting all butt hurt about it makes you look like a giant douche bag.
 
2013-03-04 10:00:23 PM

mahuika: Strangely, New York waitrons (my generic term for both sexes of waitstaff) don't even serve anything anymore.

Uh, there are already several gender neutral terms for that. In fact you actually used one in the definition of your made-up word.


Reminds me idiots that come up with words like cisgender (vs transgender) to mean people who are still their born gender. (derrrrr I sound smart like an organic chemist!)
 
2013-03-04 10:01:32 PM

calbert: shotglasss: Get a job, morans!

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 500x373]

Here's The Authentic Receipt At The Heart Of The "1% Tip" Hoax Story


The one on the right is the "Guest Copy". He could have written a million dollars, that's not what the merchant received. And pretending that it's real by blacking out the signature? Plainly an attempt to deceive - who signs their own copy of the receipt?
 
2013-03-04 10:03:55 PM
Geesh , 1st world problems.

The only thing I consider annoying is the over anxious crumb scraper guy.
 
2013-03-04 10:05:50 PM

Yogimus: Mikey1969: Not only do the restaurants pay absolute shiat, they lobby and fight to continue paying that wage every time minimum wage goes up. It was $2.11/hr in '90 when I started waiting tables, and the people have gotten a 2 cent raise in 22 years.

So don't work for tips.


I don't any more. I got tired of entitled assholes who think they own the place because they spent $30.

Doesn't mean that I don't understand what these people go through, and that I'm not above tipping for good service, since I understand what they actually do. Hint: It's not just sitting around waiting until you show up for your special service.
 
2013-03-04 10:12:00 PM

Solid State Vittles: skinink: If you can't hack it at a restaurant, just eat at home. Or go to Planet Hollywood in Times Square. Trust me, the waiters/waitresses aren't as annoying there.

Something tells me he already is.  If he's having to fend off busboys before he's done with his meal, something tells me he's not going to the cooler than cool joints he thinks he is.  Turn and burn is for isn't the m.o. at places that serve $28 slivers of trout.  He's been spending his time at Red Lobster.


As someone who served at Red Lobster for two years, getting a kick...

Turn and burn was only what we did to the food, though. We straight up immolated patrons at our fine little dining establishment where we "Sea Food Differently" (tm)
 
2013-03-04 10:12:54 PM
Mikey1969 I'm getting a kick out of everyone here that thinks waitstaff has a secret book that tells them the criteria for each customer.

'Oooooh! It's "Bob". Remember, he wants you to be knowledgeable, but not friendly. Wait guys, we have to see where he sits, because if he sits at the bar, THEN he wants you to be his buddy. Oh, I almost forgot, if he sits in Soon-Yi's section, she's supposed to flirt with him. But nobody else, OK? Wow, it's a good thing we have this written down for every potential customer on the planet, isn't it?'.


So not making you fake smile, act like my friend and joke with me is a bad thing? Just to do your job. And if its a pricey place, asking you to know the frigging menu and what you recommend is asking too much?  Jeezus, where the hell are you a waiter at?  Bennigans?  TGIF?

If I am paying 100+ for 2 people, I am not there for your friendly banter, but for you to do your job.
 
2013-03-04 10:14:22 PM

ReapTheChaos: I'd be pissed to. I'm not the type to sit around after finishing my meal, but if I'm still eating or having a cup of coffee after my meal I could give a rats ass how many people are waiting, I waited my turn they can wait theirs.


Yeah, it's been demonstrated, back in the day when there were pay phones, that a person using a phone will take longer on average if someone is waiting for them to finish.  It's not an admirable trait.
 
2013-03-04 10:16:53 PM
blogs.suntimes.com

/approves
 
2013-03-04 10:18:06 PM

SirEattonHogg: So not making you fake smile, act like my friend and joke with me is a bad thing? Just to do your job. And if its a pricey place, asking you to know the frigging menu and what you recommend is asking too much?  Jeezus, where the hell are you a waiter at?  Bennigans?  TGIF?


I don't wait tables anywhere now. I got tired of people like you who think you are special, but have a bunch of unknown criteria for how you should be treated, and want it to be different than everyone else.
 
2013-03-04 10:27:54 PM
It was poor planning or miscommunication on their part as well as slow service from the kitchen.  Our check for 4 (2 adults, 2 children) was ~120.00 and the waitress got 160.00.  Reservation was for 5:15 and they ran the credit card at 8:15 (while we were still eating dessert).  I know that they'd like to turn a table over every 60-90 minutes but we spent at least that much time waiting for our food.
 
2013-03-04 10:33:06 PM
Well crap, it threw out all the info about how long we waited between courses, how they had a choice of seating us in the downstairs or the small dining room but chose the main dining room for some reason and a bunch of other crap I'm not going to type out again.

Yeah, I'm pissed - we've been going there for 15 years and have celebrated anniversaries, finding out my wife was pregnant twice, birthdays, etc.  The owner wasn't there and that may have had something to do with it.
 
2013-03-04 10:35:18 PM
Has anybody mentioned yet that since tipping is done by percentage, that there is no legitimate reason for them to inflate from 10 to 20 percent in the last 40 years? Because, I will, if nobody else has.
 
2013-03-04 10:38:27 PM
Hey, asshole, if you're writing an entire article about how the "servants" are trying to be friendly to you, that might be a clue you need to fark off and die, and I speak as an introvert with Asperger's for whom that interaction is actually borderline hell.
 
2013-03-04 10:39:41 PM

gregscott: Has anybody mentioned yet that since tipping is done by percentage, that there is no legitimate reason for them to inflate from 10 to 20 percent in the last 40 years?


How much do you believe servers make even at the "inflated" rate of 20%?
 
2013-03-04 10:39:50 PM

MayoBoy: Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?


Maybe she thought you were cute and was looking for a quickie in the stockroom. And you blew it. So she didn't.
 
2013-03-04 10:43:55 PM

Fart_Machine: gregscott: Has anybody mentioned yet that since tipping is done by percentage, that there is no legitimate reason for them to inflate from 10 to 20 percent in the last 40 years?

How much do you believe servers make even at the "inflated" rate of 20%?


Discuss your wages with your employer, not your customer.
 
2013-03-04 10:45:36 PM
preview.turbosquid.com

Unless your server is this, you have NO excuse to use the "word" waitron.
 
2013-03-04 10:52:58 PM
Ever notice how the people who never had to work in the service industry or ever worked for tips are always the ones who gripe about how much they have to tip?

/fed four kids on waiting tables, and you have to be farking lousy to get less than 20% from me...
 
2013-03-04 10:53:42 PM
I know it's a Seinfield thing, but I really hate the "have you eaten with us before? no? let me explain how the menu works" deal. I always say yes because, as Jerry said, I'm familiar with the process.
 
2013-03-04 10:54:04 PM

SirEattonHogg: I am not there for your friendly banter, but for you to do your job


You have a very strange idea of what their job is then.

If you don't want to be bothered during dinner, either go to McDonald's, order in, or cook for yourself. Until then, I am going to smile and ask you if you enjoyed your meal.
 
2013-03-04 10:55:32 PM

Yogimus: Fart_Machine: gregscott: Has anybody mentioned yet that since tipping is done by percentage, that there is no legitimate reason for them to inflate from 10 to 20 percent in the last 40 years?

How much do you believe servers make even at the "inflated" rate of 20%?

Discuss your wages with your employer, not your customer.


I'm sure you thought you had a point there but I was asking why there was "no legitimate reason" to give someone 20%.
 
2013-03-04 10:57:59 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: SirEattonHogg: I am not there for your friendly banter, but for you to do your job

You have a very strange idea of what their job is then.

If you don't want to be bothered during dinner, either go to McDonald's, order in, or cook for yourself. Until then, I am going to smile and ask you if you enjoyed your meal.


I know when I eat out I look for the restaurant where the servers are sullen and treat me like an inconvenience.
 
2013-03-04 10:59:15 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: New York restaurant
New York customer
New york waitstaff

I'm seeing a common theme here.


New Yorkers are friendly and helpful as long as you're in trouble or lost.
If you're just having an average day, they reserve the right to stomp you.
 
2013-03-04 11:00:08 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: If you don't want to be bothered during dinner, either go to McDonald's, order in, or cook for yourself. Until then, I am going to smile and ask you if you enjoyed your meal.


My god... it's like you're like Osama bin Hitler or something.
 
2013-03-04 11:00:26 PM
If you have a problem with the mechanics of the service tip well and tell the management about it you smug dipshiat.

Don't blame the server for something they are  required to do.
 
2013-03-04 11:01:16 PM

mahuika: Strangely, New York waitrons (my generic term for both sexes of waitstaff) don't even serve anything anymore.

Uh, there are already several gender neutral terms for that. In fact you actually used one in the definition of your made-up word.


I thought the term was 'underacheivers'.
 
2013-03-04 11:01:23 PM
Now, maybe I'm the ... unwashed masses here. I could very well be. Not even arguing that part. BUT...

MayoBoy: It was poor planning or miscommunication on their part as well as slow service from the kitchen.  Our check for 4 (2 adults, 2 children) was ~120.00 and the waitress got 160.00.  Reservation was for 5:15 and they ran the credit card at 8:15 (while we were still eating dessert).  I know that they'd like to turn a table over every 60-90 minutes but we spent at least that much time waiting for our food.



I can't even begin to describe how much I find unacceptable in this post. I'm a fairly competent home cook, and even WITH cleanup AND prep I make nothing that could take this long, excluding things that are *let sit in the crockpot for 6+ hours* or "let stock simmer and reduce, casually skimming off fat .for 2 hours".

Seriously? You take up a table at a restaurant for *three farking HOURS* and that's OK? And you waited 60 to 90 minutes for your food? The fark? Did you order Himalayan Virgin Sweat Hors'Devours with a side of bull testicle ovary sauce or something?
 
2013-03-04 11:02:54 PM
Douchebags like this guy make me so glad I never went into the food service industry.
 
2013-03-04 11:05:41 PM
The scripting that some folks hate is almost never a choice on the part of waitstaff.  It's the management, and just like everyone else, when management makes the rules people who don't follow them tend to lose jobs.

I've made some interesting friends and met some fairly fascinating people by letting waitstaff be friendly, and responding in kind (I imagine tipping well doesn't hurt either!).  It honestly does not hurt.  I promise.  Maybe the article-writer should try it, he might not feel so empty all the time.
 
2013-03-04 11:09:53 PM
NYC is like the superbowl of shiatty customers and shiatty servers.  Both are equally wrong most of the time.  Customers hate overpaying for food and service and wait staff hate being undertipped because of overpriced service and food.
 
2013-03-04 11:10:12 PM

xaks: Now, maybe I'm the ... unwashed masses here. I could very well be. Not even arguing that part. BUT...

MayoBoy: It was poor planning or miscommunication on their part as well as slow service from the kitchen.  Our check for 4 (2 adults, 2 children) was ~120.00 and the waitress got 160.00.  Reservation was for 5:15 and they ran the credit card at 8:15 (while we were still eating dessert).  I know that they'd like to turn a table over every 60-90 minutes but we spent at least that much time waiting for our food.


I can't even begin to describe how much I find unacceptable in this post. I'm a fairly competent home cook, and even WITH cleanup AND prep I make nothing that could take this long, excluding things that are *let sit in the crockpot for 6+ hours* or "let stock simmer and reduce, casually skimming off fat .for 2 hours".

Seriously? You take up a table at a restaurant for *three farking HOURS* and that's OK? And you waited 60 to 90 minutes for your food? The fark? Did you order Himalayan Virgin Sweat Hors'Devours with a side of bull testicle ovary sauce or something?


Cooking the food was probably the least of the service problems.
 
2013-03-04 11:15:19 PM

SirPeteTheGreat: The scriptingflair that some folks hate is almost never a choice on the part of waitstaff. It's the management, and just like everyone else, when management makes the rules people who don't follow them tend to lose jobs.


thehappyhomeowner.net
 
2013-03-04 11:18:55 PM
Best tippers: drinkers and smokers
Worst tippers: Christians and African Americans
10% tippers: Seniors
Mega tippers: Guys with trophy wives or dates
 
2013-03-04 11:20:02 PM
An ex-girlfriend was a waitress for a long time and she had no problem calling out bad servers.
 
2013-03-04 11:25:28 PM

SirPeteTheGreat: The scripting that some folks hate is almost never a choice on the part of waitstaff.  It's the management, and just like everyone else, when management makes the rules people who don't follow them tend to lose jobs.

I've made some interesting friends and met some fairly fascinating people by letting waitstaff be friendly, and responding in kind (I imagine tipping well doesn't hurt either!).  It honestly does not hurt.  I promise.  Maybe the article-writer should try it, he might not feel so empty all the time.


Exactly.  The service procedure is dictated in a lot of restaurants.

CSB:  I wrote a small chain restaurant about the obviously overtaxed service with hawkish management (like 3 managers doing nothing but walking around) .  The owner of the restaurant(s) called me and wanted to know exactly what was wrong and told me he was embarrassed of the service.  I went a few months later and it was a totally different experience.

Lesson:  No one is exposed to problems with a bad tip, just the person who is trying to do their job (in the article scenario)
 
2013-03-04 11:30:15 PM
Next I'm gonna have to read some mushy obituary when a waiter recognizes this guy and curbstomps him.
 
2013-03-04 11:31:40 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: xaks: Now, maybe I'm the ... unwashed masses here. I could very well be. Not even arguing that part. BUT...

MayoBoy: It was poor planning or miscommunication on their part as well as slow service from the kitchen.  Our check for 4 (2 adults, 2 children) was ~120.00 and the waitress got 160.00.  Reservation was for 5:15 and they ran the credit card at 8:15 (while we were still eating dessert).  I know that they'd like to turn a table over every 60-90 minutes but we spent at least that much time waiting for our food.


I can't even begin to describe how much I find unacceptable in this post. I'm a fairly competent home cook, and even WITH cleanup AND prep I make nothing that could take this long, excluding things that are *let sit in the crockpot for 6+ hours* or "let stock simmer and reduce, casually skimming off fat .for 2 hours".

Seriously? You take up a table at a restaurant for *three farking HOURS* and that's OK? And you waited 60 to 90 minutes for your food? The fark? Did you order Himalayan Virgin Sweat Hors'Devours with a side of bull testicle ovary sauce or something?

Cooking the food was probably the least of the service problems.


I know, that's the point.

I've also worked in four different commercial kitchens in various capacities over the years. I *get* how the back of the house actually works.

But...60 to 90 minutes to get your food? 3 Hours at a table?

I cannot even conceive this in a restaurant with a working budget, unless you're charging 5-star rates for 3 star food.
 
2013-03-04 11:32:20 PM
The best tip I ever gave a waitpersonman? Get a better job. That one never gets old.
 
2013-03-04 11:33:15 PM

gregscott: Has anybody mentioned yet that since tipping is done by percentage, that there is no legitimate reason for them to inflate from 10 to 20 percent in the last 40 years? Because, I will, if nobody else has.


Of course there's a reason. Owners have gotten greedier, and failed to keep employee wages in line with inflation. Since the waitrons still have to live, they demand (by hinting in every forum where they have a voice) that the going rate is now 20%.
 
2013-03-04 11:34:35 PM
Okay, here's hoping I can bring something unique to these discussions, but I doubt it, and everyone with bigger brains will proceed to tell me I'm wrong, but here goes the ol' college try..

I will always tip 20% if I'm in the States, because the tip is a part of their wages. I said it. I do it. And to Canucks who think it's okay to lowball on the tip because you're old, or whatever, I have nothing to say but "What the fark is wrong with you? You're in another goddamn country for fark's sake!"

But being from Canada, where the servers make minimum wage...
And having worked in a service industry position for years that did NOT include tips. (I slaved away at a Chapters for years. It's like a Canadian Barnes & Noble)
Which, in my opinion, despite how wrong you're certainly going to tell me I am, is equally as difficult as waiting tables.
(Lifting heavy shiat, check. Terrible, entitled customers, check. Having to smile until your face muscles hurt even though you could care less if they live to see sundown, check.

Just a brief highlight reel:

The broad who said we should have to give her free stuff as we had a display that offended her.
The American broad who said it was her god given right to pay the US price on the cover of the books...in CANADA (Where the prices were cheaper with the exchange rate, you moron)
The people who are clearly photocopying entire sections of the store, a couple of books at a time...exchanging different books every 29 days.
The people who need need NEED that one book that they can't be bothered to remember a title or an author or a year or a subject, but they know damn well it's RED.
The people who tell you that you've ruined their Christmas because they came in on the 23rd of December and I can't magically pull a copy of Foley Is Good out of my ass for their spoiled rotten hellspawn who get to type multiple-page lists and expect every last item to be under the tree.

The management who expect you to turn up 15 minutes early on your own dime and leave 15 minutes later on your own dime (Seriously, fark you. Pay me.)

For six bucks an hour...I toiled...

And I never got one lousy, rotten, stinking tip.

So...why do you feel you deserve one, just because you serve stuff you can eat instead of stuff you read?

You may now proceed to tell me what an asshole I am who just doesn't "get it..."
 
2013-03-04 11:36:58 PM
I've been waitressing for a long time. I've waited on some ginormous douches, but this guy is the worst. I'm not your servant, if you treat me like a human being you will have the greatest dinner ever. If not, your service will as awful as your behavior.

I hate when people say get a real job. I had a 9-5 job and I hated it. I like moving around all day and talking with people. Plus I make more money waiting tables than when I was in insurance. And yes all my tips are taxed.
 
2013-03-04 11:42:11 PM

farkin_noob: I hate when people say get a real job. I had a 9-5 job and I hated it.


You think a 9-5 job is what is meant by 'a real job'? Wow....you have low standards. We should go out.

/only kidding
//I said *low*, not *no*
 
2013-03-04 11:42:34 PM
So, I have to ask: Where in god's name do you people go that the waiters are such an issue? I don't eat out routinely; but fairly often, and I have NEVER had an issue with overly-friendly or inanely perky waitstaff as everyone seems to be describing here. Once in a while, there might be a waitress who hovers or a busser who wants to clear the table too soon; but really, who cares? I'd rather have that than the waiter who takes my order and then vanishes for the next 14 hours.

And if you can't drive off an overeager waiter with a polite but icy "We're fine. Thank you." then you weren't raised up right, and you need some lessons from a Southern grandmother. You're not obliged to be best friends with Jason the Waitperson, but you don't have to be a dick about it either. And you for sure don't have to be a pretentious douchebag in your blog. Eat your food and then don't go back to that restaurant anymore. Why do people have to make such a tempest in a teapot about it?
 
2013-03-04 11:43:43 PM

MayoBoy: It was poor planning or miscommunication on their part as well as slow service from the kitchen.  Our check for 4 (2 adults, 2 children) was ~120.00 and the waitress got 160.00.  Reservation was for 5:15 and they ran the credit card at 8:15 (while we were still eating dessert).  I know that they'd like to turn a table over every 60-90 minutes but we spent at least that much time waiting for our food.


3 hours for a 5:15 four-top, two of which are children, and it's the restaurant's doing?  Shenannigans.  They sat you with the expectation that you would be gone by the time the party that had that table reserved at 7:00 showed up.  One or all of the following had to have happened:

1. You showed up at 5:45 for your 5:15 reservation.
2. You refused to order for 45 minutes after being seated while you "decided" and "took your time".
3. You refused to let the server course your food, and insisted on waiting until your first course came out before you'd order your second.
4. You spent 2 hours with your cold, wilted entree plates in front of you while you interacted with your kids.
5. You needed 30 minutes to "digest" before you would even look at the dessert menu.

If your food had actually taken 90-120 minutes to come out, your entire meal would have been comped, because it would have felt like a year from your perspective and you would have been right to complain.  It's far more likely that you screwed up the night for both the restaurant, and numerous other guests by taking an unreasonable amount of time at the table. Be more considerate.  How would you feel if you made a 7:00, showed up on time, and had to wait until 7:45 to be seated?

Yogimus: Fart_Machine: gregscott: Has anybody mentioned yet that since tipping is done by percentage, that there is no legitimate reason for them to inflate from 10 to 20 percent in the last 40 years?

How much do you believe servers make even at the "inflated" rate of 20%?

Discuss your wages with your employer, not your customer.


Restaurants don't work the way you want them to.  Service is not included in the menu price in the US. You're expected, (yes, expected,by everyone involved in the transaction) to tip 15-20% for adequate-excellent service. That's what eating out entails in this society. Get the fark over it.

gregscott: Has anybody mentioned yet that since tipping is done by percentage, that there is no legitimate reason for them to inflate from 10 to 20 percent in the last 40 years? Because, I will, if nobody else has.


Perhaps that's because you're wrong.

Our economy shifted from industrial to largely service-based around 40 years ago.  Since that time, there has been a nationwide push to improve service standards across the board.  It spawned an entire genre, known as "casual fine-dining", to which essentially all good restaurants now belong.  Today, the middle class has access to the kind of restaurant experience that only the wealthy used to.

Also, with inflation outpacing real wages, and food cost rising, restaurants have had to keep menu prices artificially low to be accessible to the middle class.  This has shifted the burden of paying for the increased server training, manager oversight, etc to the guest in the form of a higher tipping standard.

Basically, you're being asked to pay a little more for much better service than you could have afforded in 1960.  You have nothing to cry about.
 
2013-03-04 11:44:28 PM
Sirmadness,

Because you made 6 dollars an hour whether you were doing anything or not.  You made 6 dollars an hour if you were hiding in the back picking your nose, or if you were working your ass off.  A waiter gets 2 something an hour, and only gets tipped when he or she is actually helping patrons.  A good waiter or waitress can do quite well, if they are willing to put in the effort and provide quality service.
 
2013-03-04 11:46:18 PM

Gyrfalcon: And you for sure don't have to be a pretentious douchebag in your blog.


Sorry, I have to disagree. All the available evidence is to the contrary.
 
2013-03-04 11:47:48 PM
uglytattoos:

I tried really hard to make this clear, I'm sorry I didn't make it clear enough:

"But being from Canada, where the servers already make minimum wage... "

That was kinda the point of that...
 
2013-03-04 11:48:01 PM

Martstar: You know, not being a dick should apply to every facet of life as much as possible.  You're no better than the person whose job it is to provide service to you, no matter what your inflated sense of yourself might tell you to the contrary.  Your waiter, your mechanic, the kid who bags your groceries, etc., all have names and families and stuff going on in their lives.  We all think we're kings and queens in America, but the fact is, we rent our servants, and we share our servants, and, come to think of it, they're servers, not servants.  They're people, doing a job, usually a kinda shiatty one, so just quick being a dick.  All of you, but especially you, Kyle.  You are better than no one.  Would you like a nice big slice of humble pie for desert?  It's on the house.


This remains my problem with the whole bloody IT industry. It just seems to run over with people who think they're better and smarter than everyone.

Yes you pretentious twerp, I can't fix that. You can't do my job and if you tried I wouldn't stand around acting like hot shiat because you don't have the same education and experience in this field.

I can only speak for second hand info but both food delivery people I've known said that the more gated a community is, the less likely they are to tip and they claim that upper middle class ends up being the best tippers.

Then again, one of them made his last delivery to a ghetto and ended up in a party where he learned what a 'knife hit' was. That's not a bad thing mind you if you don't know what it is.
 
2013-03-04 11:50:15 PM
Sirmadness,

My apologies, must be extra dense this evening....

/wishes I waited tables in Canada instead of Philly.....
 
2013-03-04 11:51:53 PM

SirEattonHogg: Mikey1969 I'm getting a kick out of everyone here that thinks waitstaff has a secret book that tells them the criteria for each customer.

'Oooooh! It's "Bob". Remember, he wants you to be knowledgeable, but not friendly. Wait guys, we have to see where he sits, because if he sits at the bar, THEN he wants you to be his buddy. Oh, I almost forgot, if he sits in Soon-Yi's section, she's supposed to flirt with him. But nobody else, OK? Wow, it's a good thing we have this written down for every potential customer on the planet, isn't it?'.

So not making you fake smile, act like my friend and joke with me is a bad thing? Just to do your job. And if its a pricey place, asking you to know the frigging menu and what you recommend is asking too much?  Jeezus, where the hell are you a waiter at?  Bennigans?  TGIF?

If I am paying 100+ for 2 people, I am not there for your friendly banter, but for you to do your job.


Well, you're a dick... You made that much clear

/not a server
 
2013-03-04 11:59:36 PM

Z-clipped: Restaurants don't work the way you want them to. Service is not included in the menu price in the US. You're expected, (yes, expected,by everyone involved in the transaction) to tip 15-20% for adequate-excellent service. That's what eating out entails in this society. Get the fark over it.


I did get over it. Then I left a buck. Take it up with your employer.
 
2013-03-05 12:04:27 AM

Yogimus: Z-clipped: Restaurants don't work the way you want them to. Service is not included in the menu price in the US. You're expected, (yes, expected,by everyone involved in the transaction) to tip 15-20% for adequate-excellent service. That's what eating out entails in this society. Get the fark over it.

I did get over it. Then I left a buck. Take it up with your employer.


You say you did, but we both know you're lying.
 
2013-03-05 12:05:25 AM

untaken_name: farkin_noob: I hate when people say get a real job. I had a 9-5 job and I hated it.

You think a 9-5 job is what is meant by 'a real job'? Wow....you have low standards. We should go out.

/only kidding
//I said *low*, not *no*


I worked at small insurance agency. We had better than bankers hours. It was the only perk of the job.

/what are these standards you speak of?
 
2013-03-05 12:06:37 AM

Z-clipped: Our economy shifted from industrial to largely service-based around 40 years ago.  Since that time, there has been a nationwide push to improve service standards across the board.  It spawned an entire genre, known as "casual fine-dining", to which essentially all good restaurants now belong.   Today, the middle class has access to the kind of restaurant experience that only the wealthy used to.


When I was a kid back in the 60s/early 70s every restaurant you went into had sit down service. Even a burger joint had wait staff and you ordered from a menu. If anything people are getting less of a restaurant experience day to day then you did back then.
 
2013-03-05 12:12:54 AM
Wow. Someone had his rantie panties on.
 
2013-03-05 12:13:48 AM

Z-clipped: Yogimus: Z-clipped: Restaurants don't work the way you want them to. Service is not included in the menu price in the US. You're expected, (yes, expected,by everyone involved in the transaction) to tip 15-20% for adequate-excellent service. That's what eating out entails in this society. Get the fark over it.

I did get over it. Then I left a buck. Take it up with your employer.

You say you did, but we both know you're lying.


No, I realy did get over it.
 
2013-03-05 12:17:07 AM
News flash: tips were a major part of wages 40 years ago. If you want to tip 20%, fine. But you can't make an argument that 20% a reasonable minimum for merely nominal service. If you take my order, get it right, and are polite, you have merely done you job. It takes excellence to deserve more.

FWIW, I've even heard of positions in fancy/expensive restaurants where there was not wage at all it was a concession. Maybe in some cases they even paid for the opportunity to provide service.
 
2013-03-05 12:20:47 AM
So what's it called when you consistently find yourself more amused by the comments than by the story?  Time for total fark?
 
2013-03-05 12:21:26 AM

Mikey1969: Iplaybass: I'm glad tipping is not customary here. Staff get paid a reasonable wage, so despite their suggestions that we should tip, the vast majority of us don't. Those that do might leave 2 or 3 bucks, tops.

I think the whole idea of tipping is a bit strange. You have an employer. I give them money when I purchase food/services. Let them pay you. I shouldn't have to!

I still tip when I'm in a country where it's customary.

Not only do the restaurants pay absolute shiat, they lobby and fight to continue paying that wage every time minimum wage goes up. It was $2.11/hr in '90 when I started waiting tables, and the people have gotten a 2 cent raise in 22 years.


Somehow that doesn't surprise me. Average waiter/waitress wages here are anywhere from $10-$20 an hour. Good places pay a bit more. That's why we don't tip.
 
2013-03-05 12:21:51 AM

ReapTheChaos: Z-clipped: Our economy shifted from industrial to largely service-based around 40 years ago.  Since that time, there has been a nationwide push to improve service standards across the board.  It spawned an entire genre, known as "casual fine-dining", to which essentially all good restaurants now belong.   Today, the middle class has access to the kind of restaurant experience that only the wealthy used to.

When I was a kid back in the 60s/early 70s every restaurant you went into had sit down service. Even a burger joint had wait staff and you ordered from a menu. If anything people are getting less of a restaurant experience day to day then you did back then.


I'm referring to high end service. Cheaper sit-down restaurants are much less common these days, because they've been squeezed out by fast food and counter service. The industry overall has embraced the concept of restaurant as an overall experience, rather than just food prep and delivery. That means weeks of training and testing on a variety of subjects for each trainee, and that's assuming they're coming in with enough experience to understand service mechanics and already know how to talk to people at the table. That training costs money.

Basically, if you're talking about eating somewhere where the menu tells you everything you need to know about the food, then we're talking about completely different things.
 
2013-03-05 12:23:45 AM

Gyrfalcon: And if you can't drive off an overeager waiter with a polite but icy "We're fine. Thank you." then you weren't raised up right, and you need some lessons from a Southern grandmother. You're not obliged to be best friends with Jason the Waitperson, but you don't have to be a dick about it either. And you for sure don't have to be a pretentious douchebag in your blog. Eat your food and then don't go back to that restaurant anymore. Why do people have to make such a tempest in a teapot about it?


That's the thing, you don't have to be even be icy. You can simply be charming and disarming. Some folks expect the obsequious server, and depending on the joint, it is often encouraged. Our Dear Author? He expects mind reading and apparently a mental rolodex of his entire career to be emblazoned in the minds of every server on the planet. He's just got that whiff of dickishness that pervades a lot of the folks who, sadly, are put in the position of writing about an industry that they neither like nor respect, but want folks to understand their DEEP knowledge of. Which is even sadder. Write about what you love, kids. Write about what you love and want to champion for.
 
2013-03-05 12:37:18 AM

Z-clipped: ReapTheChaos: Z-clipped: Our economy shifted from industrial to largely service-based around 40 years ago.  Since that time, there has been a nationwide push to improve service standards across the board.  It spawned an entire genre, known as "casual fine-dining", to which essentially all good restaurants now belong.   Today, the middle class has access to the kind of restaurant experience that only the wealthy used to.

When I was a kid back in the 60s/early 70s every restaurant you went into had sit down service. Even a burger joint had wait staff and you ordered from a menu. If anything people are getting less of a restaurant experience day to day then you did back then.

I'm referring to high end service. Cheaper sit-down restaurants are much less common these days, because they've been squeezed out by fast food and counter service. The industry overall has embraced the concept of restaurant as an overall experience, rather than just food prep and delivery. That means weeks of training and testing on a variety of subjects for each trainee, and that's assuming they're coming in with enough experience to understand service mechanics and already know how to talk to people at the table. That training costs money.

Basically, if you're talking about eating somewhere where the menu tells you everything you need to know about the food, then we're talking about completely different things.


Higher end service means educating your waitstaff. More than just what an aioli is, but also wine service, knowledge about said wines, featured wines and beer, knowledge about liquor, which often means a sommelier on hand to educate the staff and make good choices for the place.

You want an educated waitstaff no matter what. Differences in sauces, what stocks are used, what cuts of meat, where they come from, and to head off odd questions, like folks who have food allergies and what to steer clear of, and how food is prepared in the kitchen. You are allergic to seafood, you might want to make sure the kitchen fries proteins in a different fryer than the starches.

Good waitstaff make all the difference. Not just for the guest but for the kitchen as well. Good waitstaff are essential for running a joint well.
 
2013-03-05 12:38:17 AM

ZAZ: I've heard "waitrons" around Boston, but not often.

I don't even need to know your name

If she's cute I'll try to remember her name, but I've never followed up.

Once I got a message on my answering machine from a waitress asking for a date and reminding me that we had met at her restaurant a few days ago. Except I never ate at her restaurant or met her. I never knew if she was the victim of a typo or a fake number.


Ask your "friends."
 
2013-03-05 12:38:33 AM

Mikey1969: NobleHam: I have to agree. I don't want my waiter to have personality unless I ask him a question involving his or her opinion of a dish. A really good waiter should be almost unnoticeable, but accessible when needed.

Because at $2.13/hr they have time to be there just for you.


I tip well, minimum wage for waiters is a good bit higher than that in my state, and what part of "almost unnoticeable but accessible when needed" did you interpret as constantly at my elbow? I don't want them bothering me much, but they shouldn't avoid eye contact when they walk by, they should walk by every five minutes or so without being intrusive, etc.

doglover: Mikey1969: NobleHam: I have to agree. I don't want my waiter to have personality unless I ask him a question involving his or her opinion of a dish. A really good waiter should be almost unnoticeable, but accessible when needed.

Because at $2.13/hr they have time to be there just for you.

Yeah, I'm against that. You want tips? farkin' impress me. Being an average waiter? That's not impressive. Juggle knives and a tomato bing bam boom a tomato salad lands on my plate? That's $20 right there.


If I wanted dinner theater I'd pay for dinner theater.
 
2013-03-05 12:48:44 AM

MayoBoy: Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?


mindjunks.com
 
2013-03-05 12:55:21 AM
Could only get thru the first few paragrapghs or so. Maybe there's more to the article, but by then it didn't matter.
From what I took away was this.
Then move to frickin France and STFU!!!
 
2013-03-05 01:07:37 AM

gregscott: News flash: tips were a major part of wages 40 years ago. If you want to tip 20%, fine. But you can't make an argument that 20% a reasonable minimum for merely nominal service. If you take my order, get it right, and are polite, you have merely done you job. It takes excellence to deserve more.

FWIW, I've even heard of positions in fancy/expensive restaurants where there was not wage at all it was a concession. Maybe in some cases they even paid for the opportunity to provide service.


Those would be strip clubs.
 
2013-03-05 01:07:45 AM

Mikey1969: Iplaybass: I'm glad tipping is not customary here. Staff get paid a reasonable wage, so despite their suggestions that we should tip, the vast majority of us don't. Those that do might leave 2 or 3 bucks, tops.

I think the whole idea of tipping is a bit strange. You have an employer. I give them money when I purchase food/services. Let them pay you. I shouldn't have to!

I still tip when I'm in a country where it's customary.

Not only do the restaurants pay absolute shiat, they lobby and fight to continue paying that wage every time minimum wage goes up. It was $2.11/hr in '90 when I started waiting tables, and the people have gotten a 2 cent raise in 22 years.


I'm glad to see servers aware of this. I tip and tip well, because taking these issues out on out waitstaff is ridiculous, but there is a legitimate concern in this country (and not only in food service, the percentage of Wal-Mart workers on welfare is a further indication) with big companies gleefully getting their customers, who already pay for their products, to further subsidize the fact that they refuse to pay livable wages. Where it gets the most frustrating is when servers seek to characterize it as a two-way battle - between themselves, working for substandard wages in admittedly tough conditions, and penny-pinching customers who are cheap if twenty percent isn't their low standard for average or even below-average service. While Darden and it's ilk sit back and do the "eeeexxxxceelllent" Mr. Burns thing with their hands.
 
2013-03-05 01:10:00 AM

ZAZ: I've heard "waitrons" around Boston, but not often.

I don't even need to know your name

If she's cute I'll try to remember her name, but I've never followed up.

Once I got a message on my answering machine from a waitress asking for a date and reminding me that we had met at her restaurant a few days ago. Except I never ate at her restaurant or met her. I never knew if she was the victim of a typo or a fake number.


I hope you followed through.  I've had excellent luck with wrong numbers.
 
2013-03-05 01:10:44 AM

Martstar: You know, not being a dick should apply to every facet of life as much as possible.  You're no better than the person whose job it is to provide service to you, no matter what your inflated sense of yourself might tell you to the contrary.  Your waiter, your mechanic, the kid who bags your groceries, etc., all have names and families and stuff going on in their lives.  We all think we're kings and queens in America, but the fact is, we rent our servants, and we share our servants, and, come to think of it, they're servers, not servants.  They're people, doing a job, usually a kinda shiatty one, so just quick being a dick.  All of you, but especially you, Kyle.  You are better than no one.  Would you like a nice big slice of humble pie for desert?  It's on the house.


Well put....you are a decent human, we could use more like you on this crazy floating rock.
 
2013-03-05 01:25:45 AM
Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor. Till then, you will only get paid as much as it will cost to replace you with someone better. No one owes you a "living wage".
 
2013-03-05 01:29:36 AM

hubiestubert: Higher end service means educating your waitstaff. More than just what an aioli is, but also wine service, knowledge about said wines, featured wines and beer, knowledge about liquor, which often means a sommelier on hand to educate the staff and make good choices for the place.

You want an educated waitstaff no matter what. Differences in sauces, what stocks are used, what cuts of meat, where they come from, and to head off odd questions, like folks who have food allergies and what to steer clear of, and how food is prepared in the kitchen. You are allergic to seafood, you might want to make sure the kitchen fries proteins in a different fryer than the starches.

Good waitstaff make all the difference. Not just for the guest but for the kitchen as well. Good waitstaff are essential for running a joint well.


100% true.  And as usual, I tip my hat to you for being a chef and acknowledging this, because many don't.

Also, with farm-to-table and techno-emotional recently dominating the elite market, the range and depth of knowledge a good server has to have is enormous.  To understand a chef's concept, you're looking at working knowledge of every kitchen technique from haute cuisine forward, plus either the physics behind substances like isomalt, and techniques like spherification, or what can sometimes be a staggering amount of sourcing information, coupled with an ever-growing array of in-house processes like butchering, curing, drying, baking...

Most people have no idea how much informal education good servers actually have once they're been in the business for a few years.  Not that I would, but I could have probably lectured off the cuff for three straight hours (literally) about the last farm-to-table menu I worked with, without even getting into wine or cocktails.
 
2013-03-05 01:36:39 AM

Yogimus: Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor.


I know, right?  WTF is up with software engineers?  I've watched them work...  All they do is sit on their asses all day typing little numbers and letters into a computer.  How hard is that?  Jeez, if you want to make money, learn a real skill.
 
2013-03-05 01:37:31 AM

Martstar: You know, not being a dick should apply to every facet of life as much as possible.  You're no better than the person whose job it is to provide service to you, no matter what your inflated sense of yourself might tell you to the contrary.  Your waiter, your mechanic, the kid who bags your groceries, etc., all have names and families and stuff going on in their lives.  We all think we're kings and queens in America, but the fact is, we rent our servants, and we share our servants, and, come to think of it, they're servers, not servants.  They're people, doing a job, usually a kinda shiatty one, so just quick being a dick.  All of you, but especially you, Kyle.  You are better than no one.  Would you like a nice big slice of humble pie for desert?  It's on the house.



Yah, no matter how powerful,rich, or famous you are there will always be a time when you can be caught sitting on the can, mid turd, vulnerable, helpless and ashamed. We're all equal.
 
2013-03-05 01:44:45 AM
Fark may not be the best place to seek an education on this, but I can't for the life of me seem to sort out the conflicting things I hear on the employer's obligation to make up the difference between what a waiter pulls in with tips and the minimum wage. I think it's an FLSA obligation, but it may be up to states how they administer it, and therefore what loopholes they provide employers. But if it's true, and actually plays out that way in reality, doesn't that more or less eliminate a lot of what servers gripe about? Or at least put them squarely in line with other people working difficult jobs for minimum wage?

/my guess is that it doesn't actually play out that way in reality.
//new here, so maybe this has been hashed out ad nauseam; if so, apologies.
 
2013-03-05 01:47:30 AM
Food snob detector alarm has sounded.
 
2013-03-05 01:55:37 AM
FTA: "You're a servant. So serve."

coont.
 
2013-03-05 02:00:42 AM

crabsno termites: Food snob detector alarm has sounded.


I pick food up and put it down.
 
2013-03-05 02:01:21 AM

Ranger Rover: Fark may not be the best place to seek an education on this, but I can't for the life of me seem to sort out the conflicting things I hear on the employer's obligation to make up the difference between what a waiter pulls in with tips and the minimum wage. I think it's an FLSA obligation, but it may be up to states how they administer it, and therefore what loopholes they provide employers. But if it's true, and actually plays out that way in reality, doesn't that more or less eliminate a lot of what servers gripe about? Or at least put them squarely in line with other people working difficult jobs for minimum wage?

/my guess is that it doesn't actually play out that way in reality.
//new here, so maybe this has been hashed out ad nauseam; if so, apologies.


Unless you're talking about small-town diners, or holes in the wall where business is REALLY slow and prices are REALLY cheap, NO server is really making less than minimum wage.  And in the instances where someone is hard-up enough to work at a place where it might happen, they're going to be advised not to seek compensation from their employer or face being fired for something "totally unrelated".

This is a red herring argument, regardless.   Waiting tables is not, and should not be, a minimum wage job because people don't want to be waited on by the kind of people who would work for minimum wage.  People don't get into restaurant because they "have no other choice"... they get into it because it's a job where, for a few concessions (like health insurance, and job security) one can make quite a bit of money in a short time, with a flexible schedule.  (Or in my case a whole freaking lot of money over many years, if you have the stamina for it.)

As one small example, if you have a severe food allergy, your waiter pretty much has the power of life and death over you.  Given this, do you really think it's wise to populate restaurants with your average minimum wage employee who won't give half a fark if you die of anaphylaxis, because hey... they can make the same money at McDonalds?
 
2013-03-05 02:02:14 AM

lolpix: FTA: "You're a servant. So serve."

coont.


Aside from the implication that "servants" are less worth of respect than patrons, why do you disagree with this?
 
2013-03-05 02:08:33 AM
I'm sure this guy doesn't know that many of the French restaurants (at least in Paris) are infested by rats and other critters. Heard it from the husband...he knows from personal experience.
 
2013-03-05 02:13:44 AM
"worthy".  Mea culpa
 
2013-03-05 02:17:02 AM

crabsno termites: lolpix: FTA: "You're a servant. So serve."

coont.

Aside from the implication that "servants" are less worth of respect than patrons, why do you disagree with this?


Do I need more than that? How people treat other people is the principle rule by which I measure their character.
 
2013-03-05 02:24:51 AM

Ranger Rover: Or at least put them squarely in line with other people working difficult jobs for minimum wage?


Yes, it does.  Servers without tips would get the same as the kid behind the counter at McDonald's.  Whether that is fair compensation for the workload is another discussion entirely.
 
2013-03-05 02:26:10 AM
Ranger Rover:

By the way, if you don't believe me, look at the numbers:

A waiter needs to make less than $5.12/hr to come in under minimum wage.   At a(n abysmal) tip average of 10%, they would have to sell less than $51.20/hr in net sales.  So in an 8 hour shift, the owner would be looking at about $400 in net sales.  At a VERYhigh net profit margin of 10% (most restaurants operate at 1-2%, but it can vary) that puts about $40 a day in the owner's pocket.  Nobody is going to be foolish enough to run a restaurant for $5/hour.
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2013-03-05 02:30:20 AM
I'm glad I don't live in this person's world.
 
2013-03-05 02:31:27 AM
I have to admit, that while I'm NEVER mean to my wait staff (dont like the idea of eating a lot of spit), and ALWAYS say "thank you very much" when they bring my drinks, food, etc....I WILL leave a tip that accurately rnissan98eflects the service I get.

I regularly patronize restaurants where you can drop $350 on a 5 course dinner for two.  Of course, at THOSE places, you have a waiter that is like your very own personal assistant....he/she is there for you and your table ONLY.

However, when I visit the typical $75-$150 check for dinner for two, that's when i start to sometimes get annoyed with the wait staff.

If I'm dropping serious cash for dinner (and yeah, even $75 for dinner for two is serious cash in my book), I better not wait 15 minutes for my date's martini or my glass of Laphroiag neat.

Works like this:  If you are exceptional, I will leave a 20-25% tip.
Average:15% (or I simply double the first number of the price of the meal....$70 check = $14 tip)
I had to flag you down even once for something, or had to bug you in any way:  10%

any less than that and I will usually have a conversation with the waiter and the END of dinner.
 
2013-03-05 02:31:56 AM

lolpix: crabsno termites: lolpix: FTA: "You're a servant. So serve."

coont.

Aside from the implication that "servants" are less worth of respect than patrons, why do you disagree with this?

Do I need more than that? How people treat other people is the principle rule by which I measure their character.

I agree.  But the simple fact is that they are waiters/waitresses.  Their job is to serve.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I will respect that you do your job competently - you are no less deserving of that respect than I am as a patron.  I ask only that you respect me, as well.

 
2013-03-05 03:00:44 AM

Krieghund: MayoBoy: Serious question:  At a white linen tablecloth restaurant with a party of 13.  While waiting for our deserts, a waitress other than ours comes up to me and asks if she can buy me a drink at the bar.  Am I supposed to know that is a special code for "I want to talk to you in private and tell you to hurry up because we have lots of people waiting in the bar for tables"?

We hadn't even gotten our check yet, much less our desert.  Am I right to be pissed off about it?

At any place I've ever worked that waitress would be fired.


There is no way that this was a server's idea. This has to be the owner or manager trying to make the table available. Apparently your waitress wouldn't even do it; so they got some other server to do it.
 
2013-03-05 03:01:34 AM

Z-clipped: Ranger Rover: Fark may not be the best place to seek an education on this, but I can't for the life of me seem to sort out the conflicting things I hear on the employer's obligation to make up the difference between what a waiter pulls in with tips and the minimum wage. I think it's an FLSA obligation, but it may be up to states how they administer it, and therefore what loopholes they provide employers. But if it's true, and actually plays out that way in reality, doesn't that more or less eliminate a lot of what servers gripe about? Or at least put them squarely in line with other people working difficult jobs for minimum wage?

/my guess is that it doesn't actually play out that way in reality.
//new here, so maybe this has been hashed out ad nauseam; if so, apologies.

Unless you're talking about small-town diners, or holes in the wall where business is REALLY slow and prices are REALLY cheap, NO server is really making less than minimum wage.  And in the instances where someone is hard-up enough to work at a place where it might happen, they're going to be advised not to seek compensation from their employer or face being fired for something "totally unrelated".

This is a red herring argument, regardless.   Waiting tables is not, and should not be, a minimum wage job because people don't want to be waited on by the kind of people who would work for minimum wage.  People don't get into restaurant because they "have no other choice"... they get into it because it's a job where, for a few concessions (like health insurance, and job security) one can make quite a bit of money in a short time, with a flexible schedule.  (Or in my case a whole freaking lot of money over many years, if you have the stamina for it.)

As one small example, if you have a severe food allergy, your waiter pretty much has the power of life and death over you.  Given this, do you really think it's wise to populate restaurants with your average minimum wage employee who won't give half a far ...


Got it. Makes sense, and I only have a couple issues. First of all, I guess where my problem lies is in the determination of what should be a minimum wage job - and specifically with who it is that determines that. Everybody that works in a specific field is going to have (often legitimate) arguments for why that job is this, that, and the other. I'm not a market fundamentalist, but I do believe in the basic principles of a free market, and where this gets weird is how farked up it's become over time in this industry, with an endless cycle of legislation and lobbying making it really difficult to determine just what the free market WOULD pay a server for good service.

Second, addressing the allergy example, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a basic hostage situation being my criteria for good tipping (which is essentially what this comes down to, if you're arguing that servers deserve more than the statutorily guaranteed minimum wage). I don't agree that understanding that someone is allergic to peanuts, so hold the peanuts, is particularly skilled work, although please don't think I'm saying that there aren't aspects of serving that totally do require talent (I have a friend that still amazes me with his ability to remember orders, without writing anything down, up to like an entire month later). But the suggestion that I should pay more to not be killed - or, the nightmare of every meek customer whose order is mangled - have my food spit in, is a little disconcerting. I couldn't imagine paying my mechanic extra to not "accidentally" cut my brakes; my computer tech to not "accidentally" give me a virus or fail to install the proper protection, etc. And I know that a retort may be that these people in my example are being paid for their work much more handsomely than servers - but what is that a reflection on? For better or for worse, our society (and the market? that's the mystery to me) have assigned different values to these positions.

As a server, what do you think? Do you have baseline standards that you adhere to no matter what, or do you fluctuate with the customer base? I think I would understand either. And, you probably make more money than I do, so if this an argument, rest assured you have the last laugh.

Also, would never mix up server and servant, and it's pretty deplorable that this idiot did.
 
2013-03-05 03:30:04 AM
Smug, douchebag reporter thinks the French restaurant turned him down at 18:00 because they're too focussed on the 19:30 reservations.  Reality:  The cook isn't even there at 18:00.  He's still home jerking to French swinger porn.  Learn local dining customes before you travel clownshoes.  Nobody hits a restaurant at 18:00.
 
2013-03-05 04:00:35 AM
funcorner.eu

Most of the gay waiters which is most of the waiters in the OC are from Laguna Beach which took the title as AIDS capital of California from Frisco in '89. If you're visiting Disneyland and don't want to be ingesting HIV then it would behoove you to be as nice as possible to your waiter. Don't believe any of the we don't spit in the food bullshiat in the article.
 
2013-03-05 04:01:03 AM

Ebbelwoi: Nobody hits a restaurant at 18:00


I do

Usually get good service too

I tip two different ways, 20% if I enjoyed the service, 0% if I did not (I warn first).
I tip because I WANT to, if it is demanded of me it will ALWAYS be 0%

It is for service, that is all (if the food sucks I still tip, but I do not return)

// I still think this industry is pretty farked up, I dine in many countries, I only tip in North America
 
2013-03-05 04:17:19 AM

OscarTamerz: [funcorner.eu image 300x300]

Most of the gay waiters which is most of the waiters in the OC are from Laguna Beach which took the title as AIDS capital of California from Frisco in '89. If you're visiting Disneyland and don't want to be ingesting HIV then it would behoove you to be as nice as possible to your waiter. Don't believe any of the we don't spit in the food bullshiat in the article.


0/10  Geeze you could at least put a little effort into it.
 
2013-03-05 04:19:49 AM
I was talking about France.   You can go to a restaurant all you want at 18:00.  If the cook isn't there, you're still not getting food.
 
2013-03-05 04:28:48 AM

Ebbelwoi: I was talking about France.   You can go to a restaurant all you want at 18:00.  If the cook isn't there, you're still not getting food.


I agree, if the cook is not there you will not eat.

But Ive sat in restaurants for the entire day in several french cities, your experience is obviously different.
 
2013-03-05 04:42:12 AM

Great Janitor: I like the ability to refer to my waiter/waitress by name.  It makes building rapport between the two of us easier.


Why do you need to build rapport with someone whose function in your life is to tell someone what food you want and bring it to you when it's ready? Do you feel a need to build rapport with taxi drivers, postmen and rubbish collectors?
 
2013-03-05 04:48:12 AM

crabsno termites: lolpix: FTA: "You're a servant. So serve."

coont.

Aside from the implication that "servants" are less worth of respect than patrons, why do you disagree with this?


Because it sounds like something Ann Romney would say?
 
2013-03-05 04:51:10 AM

ZAZ: I've heard "waitrons" around Boston, but not often.

I don't even need to know your name

If she's cute I'll try to remember her name, but I've never followed up.

Once I got a message on my answering machine from a waitress asking for a date and reminding me that we had met at her restaurant a few days ago. Except I never ate at her restaurant or met her. I never knew if she was the victim of a typo or a fake number.


All this time and the most important question of the thread remains unanswered.

So, did you take up her offer?
 
2013-03-05 04:59:32 AM

Gyrfalcon: crabsno termites: lolpix: FTA: "You're a servant. So serve."

coont.

Aside from the implication that "servants" are less worth of respect than patrons, why do you disagree with this?

Because it sounds like something Ann Romney would say?


Who in the fark is Ann Romney and why would I give a shiat what she says?
 
2013-03-05 05:33:27 AM

hubiestubert: Higher end service means educating your waitstaff. More than just what an aioli is, but also wine service, knowledge about said wines, featured wines and beer, knowledge about liquor, which often means a sommelier on hand to educate the staff and make good choices for the place.

You want an educated waitstaff no matter what. Differences in sauces, what stocks are used, what cuts of meat, where they come from, and to head off odd questions, like folks who have food allergies and what to steer clear of, and how food is prepared in the kitchen. You are allergic to seafood, you might want to make sure the kitchen fries proteins in a different fryer than the starches.

Good waitstaff make all the difference. Not just for the guest but for the kitchen as well. Good waitstaff are essential for running a joint well.


Sounds like some pretty picky eaters. Never in my life have I questioned wait staff about any of that stuff, nor would I want to. If an item looks or sounds appetizing on the menu I order it, in the off chance I don't like it I know not to get that next time. I guess I could see it for someone with food allergies, but most people with allergies tend to know what sets them off and what doesn't already and people with high risk allergies tend to not eat out much anyway.
 
2013-03-05 05:39:36 AM

Z-clipped: Yogimus: Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor.

I know, right?  WTF is up with software engineers?  I've watched them work...  All they do is sit on their asses all day typing little numbers and letters into a computer.  How hard is that?  Jeez, if you want to make money, learn a real skill.


If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money. You are likely getting by at best. The real money is in inheritances and entrepreneurial enterprises.
 
2013-03-05 05:53:32 AM

hubiestubert: Good waitstaff are essential for running a joint well.


so why do north american restaurants pay them below minimum wage ?
Why do the customers have to pay them separately ?

This industry is warped.

I blame their employers.
 
2013-03-05 06:09:38 AM

Slartibartfaster: so why do north american restaurants pay them below minimum wage ?
Why do the customers have to pay them separately ?

This industry is warped.

I blame their employers.


Because tipping provides motivation.  The system by and large works pretty well.
 
2013-03-05 06:17:28 AM
Was in a Florida restaurant on holiday some years ago and being English we politely, said "Thank you" whenever the waiter dropped off or collected a plate, to which he'd respond with "You're welcome" in what I think was a Texas drawl.
As the meal progressed the exchanges became more frequent. We were enjoying the drawl and he'd picked up on it dropping dishes off one at a time. "You're welcome" is still a family catch phrase.

What I'm trying to get to is that the person serving you is a human being doing a job. Being polite and treating them as an equal will do you no harm and may even make the meal memorable.
 
2013-03-05 06:32:46 AM

OscarTamerz: [funcorner.eu image 300x300]

Most of the gay waiters which is most of the waiters in the OC are from Laguna Beach which took the title as AIDS capital of California from Frisco in '89. If you're visiting Disneyland and don't want to be ingesting HIV then it would behoove you to be as nice as possible to your waiter. Don't believe any of the we don't spit in the food bullshiat in the article.


I'd pay extra if a really cute waiter would wank on my steak before bringing it out.

2.bp.blogspot.com


And I've managed in restaurants. I caution all farkers to not piss off the help. God only knows what you may ingest. I've heard of, never seen, sliced roast beef used in lieu of Charmin.
 
2013-03-05 07:19:10 AM

Slartibartfaster: I tip because I WANT to, if it is demanded of me it will ALWAYS be 0%


Do you feel the need to be childishly contrarian about all of society's expectations of you, or just this one?

"I WAS going to get you an engagement ring, but since it's obvious that you EXPECT one from me, you get NOTHING!  Now, will you marry me or not?"
 
2013-03-05 07:27:09 AM

Z-clipped: Do you feel the need to be childishly contrarian about all of society's expectations of you, or just this one?


I stand against ALL unreasonable demands

... how is surrendering working out for you ?

All hail the red white and blue (the order is not important)

deaddrops.com
 
2013-03-05 07:35:34 AM

Ebbelwoi: The system by and large works pretty well.


You are used to being lied to
(the price is X, you pay X$)
It works pretty well when you remove it too

Give it a shot, OR, campaign or write sternly written letters to return the minimum wage laws without restriction.
It works pretty well in nations with much larger, and much smaller populations.

Currently working for communist China, I am from Socialist New Zealand. The US system is busted on LOTS of levels, but .. some probably wont notice until later. US society is FULL of lies regarding prices for products. I bought a car in the US a few years back I was SHOCKED that the price advertised was not accurate, I assumed honesty and did not find it, I did the same with my land there, and the birth of my daughter there.... QUESTION your society, and all others, but the single fault in all societies is that the masses do not question.

Stop to question WHY
 
2013-03-05 07:46:22 AM
I'm normally a good tipper.  But a recent restaurant visit with my wife and sister in law was marred by a bad waiter.  It took him over fifteen minutes to get our drink order, and he screwed it up.   He dispatched our order late, and had others deliver our food.  And this was off-peak hours in a largely empty dining room.  We were one of two tables he was watching at the time.  So I rounded the bill to the next dollar to express my dissatisfaction.

I still felt like a dick for doing it.  I really hope it was taken as a wake-up call, because if he can't handle 2 tables, what happens when his whole section is full?
 
2013-03-05 07:46:33 AM

Z-clipped: MayoBoy: It was poor planning or miscommunication on their part as well as slow service from the kitchen. Our check for 4 (2 adults, 2 children) was ~120.00 and the waitress got 160.00. Reservation was for 5:15 and they ran the credit card at 8:15 (while we were still eating dessert). I know that they'd like to turn a table over every 60-90 minutes but we spent at least that much time waiting for our food.

3 hours for a 5:15 four-top, two of which are children, and it's the restaurant's doing? Shenannigans. They sat you with the expectation that you would be gone by the time the party that had that table reserved at 7:00 showed up. One or all of the following had to have happened:

1. You showed up at 5:45 for your 5:15 reservation.
2. You refused to order for 45 minutes after being seated while you "decided" and "took your time".
3. You refused to let the server course your food, and insisted on waiting until your first course came out before you'd order your second.
4. You spent 2 hours with your cold, wilted entree plates in front of you while you interacted with your kids.
5. You needed 30 minutes to "digest" before you would even look at the dessert menu.



As you weren't there, I'll clarify a few things for you:

1) We showed up at 5:10 and the last of our party was there at 5:20
2) We ordered our drinks as soon as we showed up and ordered our appetizers when she brought the drinks
3) She asked if we wanted to wait until we were finished with the appetizers to order our entrees, I said no and we ordered them at that time.  She didn't even offer to take the entree order when we ordered our appetizers.  The appetizers took between 30 and 45 minutes to arrive (escarole, bruschetta, calamari, etc. - nothing out of the ordinary)
4) The kids are quite capable of eating on their own.  My pasta was too hot to eat at first, my wife's steak was cold.
5) They were clearing our table and boxing our food before the waitress came to take our dessert order.

The owner was not present that night which was probably part of the problem.
 
2013-03-05 07:47:21 AM
As someone who thinks waitri (my made up term for both sexes) are *slightly* self entitled. Yes, a lot of you work really hard,(maybe not always at providing actual service, but at least all the other BS crap they make you do when not waiting tables) and it's a shame the resturant rips you off in pay, but 15% is fair for good service. Great service gets you more. Fair service gets you less, and anything under gets you nothing. (You lose. Good day, sir.)

But damn, the author of that article is a real douchebag. If you don't like how the ENTIRE waitri system works, don't go out to eat.
 
2013-03-05 07:51:04 AM
200+ posts and I'm the first with this:

i.imgur.com

Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2013-03-05 08:40:29 AM

MythDragon: If you don't like how the ENTIRE waitri system works, don't go out to eat


the founding fathers disagree
 
2013-03-05 08:49:22 AM
Eh, I've been in the bar biz too long; but I don't need to hear another "In my county, we don't...".  Really.  Go fark yourself.  You have the internet, there is a thing called Google, and it's a ten second search to find out the tipping/hospitality culture ANYWHERE.  I live in the US, and I'll check out what's customary where ever I go on a trip; be it New Orleans, Toronto, or Tokyo - just to ensure I have a good time and be less of a putz to the locals.

If you don't like the experience of going out, stay at home.  The rest of the establishment will thank you, patron and staff alike.  If you want a servant, hit the lotto and hire Jeeves or go to some shady rent-a-sub for a chew toy.

That said, there are a hundred different ways for management to screw a server or bartender, and in Florida most of them are at least quasi-legal.  Very few people in the front of the house actually bring much or anything home on their paychecks, so yes, they very well are living on their tips.  People who complain... well, they don't last long in the business.
 
2013-03-05 08:51:07 AM

Babwa Wawa: 200+ posts and I'm the first with this:
Fark, I am disappoint.


Jen & the manager dork made an appearance earlier...
 
2013-03-05 08:56:42 AM

Ranger Rover: I do believe in the basic principles of a free market, and where this gets weird is how farked up it's become over time in this industry, with an endless cycle of legislation and lobbying making it really difficult to determine just what the free market WOULD pay a server for good service.


I'm not sure why you think free market principles aren't at work here.  People have more freedom when it comes to paying for service in a restaurant than in almost any other industry.  It is a VERY interesting case though, because restaurant service is one of the very few industries where customer expectations and payment benchmarks are socially influenced, fluid, and subjective.  It's extremely difficult to compare the forces at work on waiting tables to any other product or service because the overall product that restaurants offer isn't "food", nor is it even simply "service".  The prevailing wisdom labels it "an experience" for lack of a better term, but even this doesn't do justice to the extremely complex and varied interactions that occur in restaurants.  You absolutely must have a basic comprehension of the unique cultural role that restaurants play before you can begin to distill them to simplified economic variables. Even the common sense answer to the most basic question, "why do people go to restaurants?" is mind-blowingly misleading.

All in all, tipping culture provides an excellent framework for this kind of transaction, where both parties benefit from motivation and compensation that are realized in an immediate fashion, as opposed to being spread out over a statistical sample.  In a way, it's kind of like free market in a Petri dish.  I encourage you to look into the matter though, because it's fascinating, and there's a dearth of research on food/restaurant culture. (Full disclosure: my wife studied Food Anthropology in college, so I'm both biased, and reasonably well-informed)

Ranger Rover: Second, addressing the allergy example, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a basic hostage situation being my criteria for good tipping (which is essentially what this comes down to, if you're arguing that servers deserve more than the statutorily guaranteed minimum wage).


You misunderstand me.  I'm referring to motivation and responsibility.  I'm not insinuating that a server paid minimum wage would purposely poison your food.  But in any situation where this kind of care is required, a well-paid employee can be expected to exercise more focus and responsibility, and work harder to prevent mistakes.  If for no other reason, because they would be more motivated to keep a high-paying job than a minimum wage job.

Ranger Rover: I don't agree that understanding that someone is allergic to peanuts, so hold the peanuts, is particularly skilled work, although please don't think I'm saying that there aren't aspects of serving that totally do require talent (I have a friend that still amazes me with his ability to remember orders, without writing anything down, up to like an entire month later).


This is actually quite interesting, because you have it exactly backward.  Unless the person in question is one of the astronomically rare people who have a truly eidetic memory, not writing orders down is a parlor trick that's ultimately the sign of an unprofessional server, or at least, one who is not paying enough attention to the things he ought to (no offense to your friend).  Good waiters spend every second of the time they are at the table being perceptive, and looking for ways to make your experience better that you probably wouldn't think of yourself.  Filling your brain with memorized orders just wastes valuable processing power.  It's also stupid because it divests you of an impartial written record that can be referred back to later if you have a problem.  "You said this, I remember" holds much less credibility than "you said this, look I wrote it down."

On the other hand, keeping you from dying from a peanut allergy is MUCH more complicated in practice than simply writing "no peanuts" on your kitchen dupe.  (What that does is kick the responsibility to someone else, which is exactly the opposite of what a good waiter wants.)  Even the cook behind the line may not know for sure whether something is safe for you. Peanuts can be present in any number of ingredients from oils to flour to any processed ingredients that might wind up in you dish at some point along the way.  The prep cook that floured your chicken breast before par cooking it may have used flour that was processed near peanuts, or maybe not.  The fryer oil may contain some peanut, may contain peanut residue from a previous batch of oil, or it may not... the list goes on.

Most importantly, any time a waiter has to respond to a question with "I'm not sure, let me go check on that", they've already failed.  "Can this dish be prepared without peanuts/gluten/tree nuts/garlic/milk/egg/shellfish/soy/honey/alcohol etc.?" can be an extremely difficult question to promptly answer unless you have thorough and complete knowledge of ingredient sourcing, prep techniques, and the flavor profile of the dish... sometimes even who worked prep that day can be necessary information.  When I waited tables, I often knew things about the night's menu that my chef de cuisine couldn't tell you if his life depended on it.

So, given the amount of knowledge and motivation it takes to answer that question, do you think you're safer with someone working for $7.25/hr, or someone making $30-50/hr (which is about what I used to make when I waited tables)?

Ranger Rover: have my food spit in


By the way, this fear is probably largely overblown.  I worked in various parts of the restaurant industry for almost 20 years, and not once did I ever see, or even hear about someone actually tainting a guest's food where I worked.  And I've seen a LOT of crazy shiat go down in restaurants and bars.  A lot.

Ranger Rover: I couldn't imagine paying my mechanic extra to not "accidentally" cut my brakes; my computer tech to not "accidentally" give me a virus or fail to install the proper protection, etc. And I know that a retort may be that these people in my example are being paid for their work much more handsomely than servers - but what is that a reflection on? For better or for worse, our society (and the market? that's the mystery to me) have assigned different values to these positions.


Actually, when you're talking about high-end restaurants, waiters make as much or more than these other two trades.  And that's what they are, all three: respectable trades that take a roughly equivalent amount of knowledge and training to do well.  (Median salary for a software developer/engineer is just over $68K, median for auto mechanics is $34K.  Waiting tables overall is somewhere between, but when you consider high-end only, it's higher.  At my last job as a waiter, I made over $70K, and I've known people in NYC to clear six figures.)

Funny thing is, you think of an auto mechanic providing a fixed service for a fixed price- very binary...either the car runs, or it doesn't- but there's actually just as much possibility for variation in quality of his work as there is for restaurant service.  If you take your car in for engine trouble, and you get it back running, do you get to pay less than the quoted price if your mechanic used duct tape to plug a vacuum leak, or put a cheap made-in-china electronic part in, instead of OEM?  (assuming you can even tell, that is)  Did he notice a problem with your bearings that's going to come back to haunt you when he had your car on the lift, but not say anything?  What if he goes the extra mile, and cleans and details your car and rotates the tires while he has it in the shop?  There aren't really benchmarks in place for auto mechanics, but for servers, they're very clear:  15% = barely adequate, 18% = good/standard, 20+% = excellent.

Ranger Rover: As a server, what do you think? Do you have baseline standards that you adhere to no matter what, or do you fluctuate with the customer base? I think I would understand either. And, you probably make more money than I do, so if this an argument, rest assured you have the last laugh.


Personally, I take pride in whatever job I do, and I always work to the best of my ability no matter who I'm serving.  When I was a waiter I maintained a consistent level of education that most non-restaurant workers probably couldn't fathom.  Consequently, I tended to get 20+% from everybody, even the "Mr. Pink" types who spout off in these treads, because people respected me.  And respectfully, I expected to be tipped well because I knew that waiters like me were rare.

And I'm sure you make more than I do now, because I quit my job over a year ago.  I'm back in school working on a BS/MS in Physics.
 
2013-03-05 09:13:15 AM

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Yogimus: Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor.

I know, right?  WTF is up with software engineers?  I've watched them work...  All they do is sit on their asses all day typing little numbers and letters into a computer.  How hard is that?  Jeez, if you want to make money, learn a real skill.

If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money. You are likely getting by at best. The real money is in inheritances and entrepreneurial enterprises.



FTFTheOnlyThingThatReallyMatters
 
2013-03-05 09:17:08 AM

Two16: untaken_name: Z-clipped: Yogimus: Well, if you get skills, you can get paid as skilled labor.

I know, right?  WTF is up with software engineers?  I've watched them work...  All they do is sit on their asses all day typing little numbers and letters into a computer.  How hard is that?  Jeez, if you want to make money, learn a real skill.

If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money. You are likely getting by at best. The real money is in inheritances and entrepreneurial enterprises.


FTFTheOnlyThingThatReallyMatters


http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/04/19/most-millionaires-are-se lf -made-only-6-inherited/

http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/most-wealthy-individuals-earned -n ot-inherited-their-wealth/

http://news.discovery.com/human/life/millionaires-120722.htm
 
2013-03-05 09:21:06 AM

Slartibartfaster: You are used to being lied to
(the price is X, you pay X$)


You're ridiculous.  Have you traveled like, at ALL ?  Don't you realize that these kind of conventions wary wildly from culture to culture?  Go to SE Asia and say "the price is X, you pay X" and you'll get politely laughed at.

Tipping culture in the US is not a lie, and it works just fine.  I'll never understand why so many people on Fark are so desperate to give up their power in the dining experience for the sake of having a particular industry fit into a neat little conceptual box.  Do you think that if restaurant moved to straight commission/service charges that you'd end up paying less somehow?  Hell no.  You'd end up with hard-selling waiters who didn't have to give a fark about whether you have a nice time, as long as you spend money and get out.

~18% is what service costs here.  You're going to pay it one way or another.  At the moment, you have a socially acceptable amount of leeway to reward above average service, and punish poor service.  Don't fight it, enjoy it!

MayoBoy: As you weren't there, I'll clarify a few things for you:

1) We showed up at 5:10 and the last of our party was there at 5:20
2) We ordered our drinks as soon as we showed up and ordered our appetizers when she brought the drinks
3) She asked if we wanted to wait until we were finished with the appetizers to order our entrees, I said no and we ordered them at that time.  She didn't even offer to take the entree order when we ordered our appetizers.  The appetizers took between 30 and 45 minutes to arrive (escarole, bruschetta, calamari, etc. - nothing out of the ordinary)
4) The kids are quite capable of eating on their own.  My pasta was too hot to eat at first, my wife's steak was cold.
5) They were clearing our table and boxing our food before the waitress came to take our dessert order.

The owner was not present that night which was probably part of the problem.


In that case, you got screwed (although I'm still puzzled about how the above adds up to 3 hours at the table.  I believe you, but I can't help finding that a bit fishy).  If I had been managing that restaurant, somebody would probably have lost their job over that many compounded failures.  I hope you said something to the owner.  I would be mortified if it were my restaurant.
 
2013-03-05 09:38:47 AM

MythDragon: but 15% is fair for good service. Great service gets you more. Fair service gets you less, and anything under gets you nothing. (You lose. Good day, sir.)


Not scolding you, but this can vary both geographically and with the quality of restaurant.  18% is a more common benchmark for "good" in nice places.  15% often communicates "barely adequate".  You may not care, but if you leave 15% in a fine restaurant it will most likely be interpreted as you being underwhelmed at your experience, and if your server gave you good service, he will probably be somewhat offended at the implication.

Do as you will, but if you get a lot of warm hellos and cold goodbyes, you might find that tossing an extra buck or two in the check presenter makes a big difference.  I know it seems silly being such a small amount of money most of the time.. it's more about the message the money sends than the money's value.
 
2013-03-05 09:49:03 AM
Slartibartfaster:
You are used to being lied to
(the price is X, you pay X$)
It works pretty well when you remove it too

Give it a shot, OR, campaign or write sternly written letters to return the minimum wage laws without restriction.
It works pretty well in nations with much larger, and much smaller populations.

Currently working for communist China, I am from Socialist New Zealand. The US system is busted on LOTS of levels, but .. some probably wont notice until later. US society is FULL of lies regarding prices for products. I bought a car in the US a few years back I was SHOCKED that the price advertised was not accurate, I assumed honesty and did not find it, I did the same with my land there, and the birth of my daughter there.... QUESTION your society, and all others, but the single fault in all societies is that the masses do not question.

Stop to question WHY


Jesus what a gigantic fark-knob.  I don't live in the US.  But when I go there, just like every other country I find it super easy to navigate local customs which sometimes involves very simple math.  In fact, when I travel I never actually have the feeling that I'M being LIED TO, because, well because I'm not an idiot like you..
 
2013-03-05 10:28:39 AM
Waiters, just please bring me my food, and I'll tip 20%. I hardly tip less.  If you are going to create this much drama (either party) over a meal or a few bucks, you should stay at home.
 
2013-03-05 10:28:55 AM

untaken_name: If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money.


Funny... when I work, I get a paycheck that I can exchange for money.  Generally, it's more than enough for me to be happy and have the things I want!   Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Let me help:

Employment Contract
for untaken_name


I would like to be paid in:

Poker Chips    [  ]
Mike and Ikes [  ]
Poop              [  ]
US Dollars      [X]
 
2013-03-05 10:51:48 AM
As a veteran of the retail food industry and frequent restaurant customer, I have to say I mostly agree with this guy (though not necessarily his attitude).  I don't want servers to be my friend, make small talk, or try to sell stuff to me.  Take my order, be prompt and courteous, and get your tip, please and thank you.
 
2013-03-05 11:24:32 AM

Ebbelwoi: Jesus what a gigantic fark-knob


nuf said
 
2013-03-05 11:29:16 AM

Ebbelwoi: when I travel I never actually have the feeling that I'M being LIED TO,


how farking naiive can you get ?
wanna buy a bridge ?
 
2013-03-05 11:36:24 AM
Dear Shagyourselffaster.  We're real darned  sorry you came to America and the math was too hard.
 
2013-03-05 12:00:16 PM
Z-clipped:
Interesting and informative. I like "free market in a Petri dish." Wasn't trying to say that free market is NOT at work here, just that it's a weird hybrid. I don't know if you read my subsidization comment earlier; that may be the main issue I have with the whole set-up.

"A well-paid employee can be expected to exercise more focus and responsibility, and work harder to prevent mistakes.  If for no other reason, because they would be more motivated to keep a high-paying job than a minimum wage job." You would probably agree that this would be true of anyone in any industry. But where does it top off? You speak mainly of high-end restaurants, but indicate that maybe different principles apply in those than in your basic run-of-the-mill Applebees. Should that guy be making 30-50? (Or does he already? I don't know) Really interested in this: Given an either/or option, would you extend tipping as a component of overall payment to the mechanics and techs I brought up, or eliminate the tipping system altogether in favor of employers paying standard wages and perhaps rewards based on business brought in/positive feedback received? Basically, which in your opinion is the better system for positions that you are comparing in terms of baseline standards and variability of performance?

The guys I know in the physics department at the university here are seriously mean cooks. Never had better fresh baked bread.
 
2013-03-05 12:14:34 PM

Z-clipped: untaken_name: If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money.

Funny... when I work, I get a paycheck that I can exchange for money.  Generally, it's more than enough for me to be happy and have the things I want!   Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Let me help:

Employment Contract
for untaken_name

I would like to be paid in:

Poker Chips    [  ]
Mike and Ikes [  ]
Poop              [  ]
US Dollars      [X]


When you have to cut out the context of your quote in order to make your "point", your "point" is probably retarded. Let me repeat this because you are obviously slow (what are you, a waiter or something?): YOU ARE LIKELY NOT MAKING MONEY. YOU ARE LIKELY JUST GETTING BY.
You are literally being paid, but you are not "making money" in the context the adults you interrupted were using: you're not really doing better than a waiter. You may be making more dollars, but not more zeros. The president and founder makes a farkload more than any guy in the mailroom. If you can't understand that the difference is one of massive scale, then you deserve to think you're making money. Oh, and you're trying WAY too hard with that ascii bullshiat.
 
2013-03-05 12:54:10 PM

untaken_name: Z-clipped: untaken_name: If you're working for someone else, you are likely not making money.

Funny... when I work, I get a paycheck that I can exchange for money.  Generally, it's more than enough for me to be happy and have the things I want!   Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Let me help:

Employment Contract
for untaken_name

I would like to be paid in:

Poker Chips    [  ]
Mike and Ikes [  ]
Poop              [  ]
US Dollars      [X]

When you have to cut out the context of your quote in order to make your "point", your "point" is probably retarded. Let me repeat this because you are obviously slow (what are you, a waiter or something?): YOU ARE LIKELY NOT MAKING MONEY. YOU ARE LIKELY JUST GETTING BY.
You are literally being paid, but you are not "making money" in the context the adults you interrupted were using: you're not really doing better than a waiter. You may be making more dollars, but not more zeros. The president and founder makes a farkload more than any guy in the mailroom. If you can't understand that the difference is one of massive scale, then you deserve to think you're making money. Oh, and you're trying WAY too hard with that ascii bullshiat.


Jeez, you mad!

Not everyone's goal is to make a brazillion dollars. I make enough that I don't have to worry about money. I do the things I want to do, and have the things I want to have. By the time my kid is old enough to go to college, I'll be able to send her. I just took a year off from work, and I could take three more if I wanted.

I have more than enough. If that qualifies as "just getting by", then you have a different definition than most of us, I think. Believe it our not, adding three zeroes to my paycheck wouldn't improve my life significantly.

That's the point I was making: just because you're not getting filthy rich as a business owner doesn't mean the money you're making is insignificant. There IS such a thing as decreasing marginal utility, and quality of life. Money isn't an end in itself. It's just a means to an end. The one who dies with the biggest pile doesn't win anything except a fancier coffin.

Sorry you didn't like my joke. Maybe you should calm down, and not worry so much. Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy". It's troubling that so few Americans grasp the idea.
 
2013-03-05 01:19:46 PM

Z-clipped: Believe it our not, adding three zeroes to my paycheck wouldn't improve my life significantly.


Gee, those grapes are probably really sour, anyway.

Z-clipped: Sorry you didn't like my joke.


You absolutely should be.

Z-clipped: Maybe you should calm down, and not worry so much.


If I get any calmer, I'll be a corpse. What makes you think I'm worried? Projecting?

Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".


Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Z-clipped: It's troubling that so few Americans grasp the idea.


You obviously haven't seen the statistics for the number of people on "government assistance".
 
2013-03-05 01:37:38 PM

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Believe it our not, adding three zeroes to my paycheck wouldn't improve my life significantly.

Gee, those grapes are probably really sour, anyway.

Z-clipped: Sorry you didn't like my joke.

You absolutely should be.

Z-clipped: Maybe you should calm down, and not worry so much.

If I get any calmer, I'll be a corpse. What makes you think I'm worried? Projecting?

Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Z-clipped: It's troubling that so few Americans grasp the idea.

You obviously haven't seen the statistics for the number of people on "government assistance".


OK, now that it's been established that both of you are smart, rich, and successful, when are you guys going to compare dick sizes?
 
2013-03-05 03:27:15 PM
This guy makes France sound like some socialist, atheist utopia.  He can get the fark out of the US if he loves it over there so much.
 
2013-03-05 04:54:34 PM

KrispyKritter: ISO15693: monstera: I used to wait tables, so I'm really getting a kick out of this...but seriously, I start at 20% and let them work their way down...or up. That's my policy and I recommend it.

20%? For a tip? They'd have to be one heck of a server to earn a double tip.

you are the definition of cheap.


Again, one has to ask what the purpose of tipping is.

"Cultural expectation" is a horrible, baseless reason/purpose. If it's a fee, make a fee, clearly quantified up front. If it is a voluntary contribution based on the whim of the customer, there's no justification for deciding someone is "cheap" regardless of how much, if any, they tip.

If it is for the 60 seconds of labor of taking your order and carrying your food from the kitchen to your table, 15% is vastly over-payment. Paying someone $5 for this minute of interaction is $300/hr and being culturally expected to fund this sort of entitlement complex isn't something anyone should do. They are servants for goodness sake, not royal attendants.  They've chosen to serve other people in a menial task ostensibly because they couldn't get batter paying work. Why should we reward their failure with $300/hr for light walking?

Having said that, I still generously tip 10% if the service is good, and that is certainly not cheap.
 
2013-03-05 04:55:38 PM
batter = better
 
2013-03-05 07:32:13 PM

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.


Introduce yourself to Max Weber and learn just where work ethics come from and what they mean. Hint: they don't have a lot to do with chasing the maximum number of small green pieces of paper.
 
2013-03-05 07:38:45 PM

Solid State Vittles: OK, now that it's been established that both of you are smart, rich, and successful, when are you guys going to compare dick sizes?


When they make something large enough to measure mine in any meaningful way besides, "HOLY CRAP!"

/amidoinitrite?
 
2013-03-05 07:41:39 PM

i upped my meds-up yours: untaken_name: Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Introduce yourself to Max Weber and learn just where work ethics come from and what they mean. Hint: they don't have a lot to do with chasing the maximum number of small green pieces of paper.


When does your unemployment run out? Or have you already moved on to welfare? No one's chasing the small green pieces of paper, guy. They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.
 
2013-03-05 08:48:12 PM

untaken_name: They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.



So the only way you can get pretty women is by spending money on them?  it's too bad you won't ever know what it's like not to go through life with a stubby.  If only you had a bigger penis...it's a shame, really.
 
2013-03-05 11:07:54 PM

untaken_name: i upped my meds-up yours: untaken_name: Z-clipped: Introduce yourself to the concept of "having enough to be happy".

Introduce yourself to a goddam work ethic.

Introduce yourself to Max Weber and learn just where work ethics come from and what they mean. Hint: they don't have a lot to do with chasing the maximum number of small green pieces of paper.

When does your unemployment run out? Or have you already moved on to welfare? No one's chasing the small green pieces of paper, guy. They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.


If you seriously believe this nonsense (I think you're trolling, myself), then I feel sorry for you. You're going to regret living by these priorities when you're old.

Also, a couple of things:

1. As i upped my meds said, you don't understand what "work ethic" means. Your implication that "jobs are for suckers" shows a pathetically short-sighted understanding of economics.

1.5 Sweden is full of hard-working, educated, healthy, HAPPY people, and has an extremely low income disparity. Swedes understand the concept of "enough", and that it's directly related to happiness. Americans need to figure out that having a rich overclass that is never satisfied makes everyone unhappy, including the rich overclass.

2. ~80% of the people on public assistance are working families who can't make enough at their minimum wage jobs to climb out of poverty. You would, I suppose, counsel them to start their own businesses, with no capital, and no one to buy whatever product they might make? Rather than, I assume, raising the minimum wage enough to allow then to have a modicum of disposable income they could use to stimulate the economy. No, I'm sure you would prefer to funnel that money into the pockets of someone who already makes "real money", since we all know that rich people spend the same percentage of their income as poor people, and they love to "create jobs" in a market with reduced demand.

3. The difference between us is that you're desperate to display your status with things like "nice cars", and are trying to attract a beautiful woman with money, where I'm unconcerned with what some douchebag I don't even know thinks of my material possessions, and have managed to attract a beautiful, intelligent woman by having self-confidence that isn't tied up in those kinds of things.

4. The most valuable thing in life is time spent with people you love, and doing things you love to do (that includes work). Ask any old person, rich or poor, and they'll tell you I'm right. I only wish I was as smart as my wife; it took me until age 33 to figure this out, but she got it at 23, which consequently was right around when we got married.
 
2013-03-05 11:38:50 PM

Limp_Penis: untaken_name: They're chasing the things you can spend those small green pieces of paper on. Things like nice houses, nice cars, and pretty women. It's too bad you won't ever know what that's like. If only you weren't so lazy....it's a shame, really.


So the only way you can get pretty women is by spending money on them?  it's too bad you won't ever know what it's like not to go through life with a stubby.  If only you had a bigger penis...it's a shame, really.


Right. We all know the world's most beautiful women only love nerds for their brains. That's really common. It's completely unknown for gorgeous women to flock to rich men. Never happens. Oh, and why are you so interested in my penis? I recognize your attempt to goad me into showing you my enormous cock but if you think you're the first one to try it, you're delusional. Well, you're obviously delusional anyway, so I guess it's moot.
 
2013-03-05 11:41:15 PM

Z-clipped: Rather than, I assume, raising the minimum wage enough to allow then to have a modicum of disposable income they could use to stimulate the economy.


Let me stop you right here. Minimum wage increases hurt people with minimum wage jobs the most. Can you figure out how this seeming paradox could possibly be true? If you get stuck, there are resources on the internet that can help. Until you understand simple concepts like this, we can't have a real discussion.
 
2013-03-06 12:19:20 AM

untaken_name: Z-clipped: Rather than, I assume, raising the minimum wage enough to allow then to have a modicum of disposable income they could use to stimulate the economy.

Let me stop you right here. Minimum wage increases hurt people with minimum wage jobs the most. Can you figure out how this seeming paradox could possibly be true? If you get stuck, there are resources on the internet that can help. Until you understand simple concepts like this, we can't have a real discussion.


Yeah, yeah, I've heard this one before. It can be conclusively deduced from economic first principles, if you're willing to completely ignore the effect of increased purchasing power. However, if you pull your head out of your Econ 101 textbook, and crack open a history book, you'll see that it tends not to work that way in the real world.

There is certainly a peak in the benefit that can be realized from a minimum wage increase, but given that the minimum has lagged behind inflation for quite a while, we're WELL to the left of that peak at the moment.
 
2013-03-06 12:57:34 PM

untaken_name: Oh, and why are you so interested in my penis? I recognize your attempt to goad me into showing you my enormous cock but if you think you're the first one to try it, you're delusional.


rlv.zcache.com
 
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