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(Huffington Post)   Is the Catholic Church ready for a Jesuit Pope? Well, that's a very complex question and it all depends on how you define your terms. If we assume argueendo, that by "ready" we mean in a state of preparedness, and if we further postulate that..,   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Leonardo Sandri, Catholic Church, argentina, complex question, National Catholic Reporter, Cristina Fernandez, John Paul II  
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5160 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 3:20 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 03:01:56 PM  
4 votes:

DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.


Jesuit: Member of the Society Of Jesus, a Religious order founded by ex-soldier St Ignatius of Loyola.  Often called behind thier back "God's marines"- especially by their former students,  they are an order largely devoted to teaching and the pursuit of knowledge and in modern times are famed both for the universities they've founded, their rigorous intellectual standards for teaching, and contributions to science and learning.  They also tend to be poltically on the liberal side of the church and have been linked with Liberation theology movements in south America

The adjective "jesuitical"  is often used in a secular context rather the same way the adjective "talmudic" is: which is to say as a synomyn for pedantic or overly concerned with fine points of laws and rules
2013-03-04 05:58:55 PM  
3 votes:

bikkurikun: Magorn: Jesuit: Member of the Society Of Jesus, a Religious order founded by ex-soldier St Ignatius of Loyola.  Often called behind thier back "God's marines"- especially by their former students,  they are an order largely devoted to teaching and the pursuit of knowledge and in modern times are famed both for the universities they've founded, their rigorous intellectual standards for teaching, and contributions to science and learning.  They also tend to be poltically on the liberal side of the church and have been linked with Liberation theology movements in south America

If they are that devoted to the pursuit of knowledge, they must have found long ago that their religion is all based on lies and fables. How come it still exists?


Belief in scientific principles and belief in God are not mutually exclusive.  You can accept that the Bible and writings of the church have been passed down for millennia, at first through oral history and then translated and retranslated through multiple languages (and oftentimes archaic forms that no one is 100% sure on the translation of anymore) to arrive at what we have today.  Much of it was likely never meant to be taken literally, and the many of the passages have been edited, added to, or removed over time due to mistakes, the political climate at the time, or individual whim.

Yes, at the heart of it you do have to believe in something that is unprovable, but that is having faith.  Believing in God does not mean that you can't also fully accept evolution, the big bang, or the laws of physics.

I'd even go further and say that considering yourself a Christian does not invalidate other world religions.  Many of the core beliefs are the same across the Abrahamic religions as well as other world beliefs.  The stories, names, rules, and rituals have evolved and changed in different ways over time in different cultures, but that doesn't mean they can't all have come from the same source.
2013-03-04 03:31:13 PM  
3 votes:

DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.



All you need to know to understand the headline is that they are well-versed in debate, logic, etc.  Never, ever, argue with a Jesuit unless you are certain you are right.  Even then you will walk away not being totally sure....
2013-03-04 03:07:40 PM  
3 votes:

DamnYankees: unlikely: DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.

It isn't substantially different. Historically it was, but now it is mostly just the order that the serious scholars fall into.

Order? What does that mean? Like, monks who go live off in seclusion?


In the Catholic Church a religious order can mean a lot of different things, but generally it refers to a sub-group of monks, nuns or even priests who follow a particular set of religious rules and in the big 'ol Catholic Org Chart answer to the heads of their orders rather than to the local Bishop or Cardinal (who control "diocesan" priests)  Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines, Jesuits, Little Sisters of the Poor, Sisters of Saint Joseph, and Christian Borthers , are probably the biggest religious orders and the ones most people are familiar with (as they all run schools or make booze) but there are probably thousands altogether each with their own rules and traditions
2013-03-04 04:06:10 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.


It's an order of Catholics founded in 1540 to win back the people who converted to protestantism in the reformation, later on they fell foul of the other Catholic authorities. They are very well educated (and run very good schoosl), well organised and well disciplined. Amongst Catholics, Jesuits tend to be the most intellectually rigorous, and these days are quite theologically liberal. The Vatican has usually had an uneasy relationship with them.
2013-03-04 03:48:33 PM  
2 votes:
This is all a waste of time because it is an obsolete myhtological framework that is losing its relevance as we speak. Only stupid people give a crap who's the f*cking pope. There's nothing less deserving of the public's interest than an old bad-breath baby raper.
2013-03-04 03:43:54 PM  
2 votes:
As a survivor of a Jesuit University, I say go for it.
2013-03-04 03:39:13 PM  
2 votes:
As someone who went to a Jesuit University, A+ headline.
2013-03-04 03:32:15 PM  
2 votes:
The Jesuits are the reason that the Catholic Church endorses evolution. They are amazing in the way that they compartmentalize everything - faith, metaphysics, science - all discrete areas of study that do not interact, but are all valuable.
2013-03-04 03:27:47 PM  
2 votes:
Anyone not in (or friendly toward)  Opus Dei would be an improvement.
2013-03-04 03:16:22 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.


I went to Jesuit high school, so I'm really getting a kick out of this thread.

Long story short, Jesuits are like learned philosophers, mostly they teach (and teach Latin at that)

The school I went to was divided into the old school Jesuits who were more traditional, and the new school Jesuits who were more like 'hippies'.
2013-03-04 10:33:01 PM  
1 vote:

Braindeath: As someone who went to a Jesuit University, A+ headline.


As a former Jesuit university attendee (Loyola University Chicago),  I too approve of this headline.  I was always fond of that St. Ignatius quote that was blazoned over one of the doors.  "Go forth and set the world on fire."
2013-03-04 06:53:39 PM  
1 vote:

rickythepenguin: Who are God's Seal Team Six?


at my high school we called the Jesuits God's academic Marines Corps or the intellectual shock troops of Jesus Christ.

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Not only were the Jesuits pro-education, weren't they really very progressive in setting up schools in bad areas of (maybe only American) cities?  And when these ghetto-type areas shifted away from the dirty white immigrants to the dirty brown immigrants, they kept up the faith and good works?

That explains why you have these Catholic schools that are - I'm serious - exceptionally good at basketball and have great basketball programs.  The Catholic Seven teams breaking away from the Big East, most of them are Jesuit, I think.  Could be wrong.  Georgetown, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul, Marquette, etc.  Xavier.  St. Louis, which may join.

Could be wrong about which are, exactly, but the principle is there.


A few centuries ago the Jesuits wanted to set up a system of schools in France, open to everyone and free to all .So while nominally they'd be Catholic schools, they would welcome non-Catholic students. And they'd welcome poor and rich alike. The response of the French government at the time was less than warm. As a couple Jesuits found themselves dead soon after.
2013-03-04 06:51:21 PM  
1 vote:

camtheman: I don't go to Catholic services anymore, but I really hope they elect him


Thanks for the story-- I appreciate hearing even more good things about him.
2013-03-04 06:15:12 PM  
1 vote:

WinoRhino: neritz: WinoRhino: I have $10 on Turkson and O'Malley.

I've said it before, I really want to see Turkson get elected.  The butt hurt would be glorious.

That's the one reason I have him in there. A black US president and a black Pope? In my lifetime? It's more likely than you think! Pure awesome. Anyhow, I'm no longer a Catholic, but being raised in that faith, I think O'Malley is my sincere pick. He's worked with many abuse victims, some of whom have gone out of their way to say how much they appreciated him. Also, when he took over in the Boston area for Law, he eschewed all of the trappings the Law seemed to revel in. O'Malley wears plain brown robes, sandals, and sold the fancy residence and moved into a small apartment. He has doctorates in Spanish and Portuguese literature and is very well-respected in those cultures (40% of Catholics being from South America, that's a plus).


I had the fortune of going to school, from 3rd to 12th grade, in the Diocese of Fall River, of which O'Malley was the bishop.  He came to our high school every year, and spoke at both my middle school and high school graduations.  I briefly met him one one occasion, and he was very nice.  He was a great speaker, funny in a dry way, and really smart.  Even my Protestant grandparents, who weren't sure if Catholics even read the Bible, liked him.

When he was made Archbishop of Boston, two things happened.  Shortly after being made Archbishop, I remember reading a story where he spoke, outside a church, to a woman who had a son who was abused.  He didn't ignore her, he listened, asked forgiveness and hugged her.

The second was that, because I knew who he was and always liked him, I sent him a card when he became Archbishop.  He sent me a letter back, and it wasn't a form letter.  It was personalized to me, signed by him, and sent to my dorm in Philadelphia.

I don't go to Catholic services anymore, but I really hope they elect him.
2013-03-04 05:32:24 PM  
1 vote:
Another thing that distinguishes Jesuits is the requirements for becoming on and how long it takes. First there's getting accepted to start, that can take a year, followed by a year of being in the novitiate which involves learning Jesuit history, teachings etc etc. Then there's getting a BA or BS in whatever subject you want to teach/specialize in, and most likely a double major in theology (want to teach theology? You'll major in that and do a double major in some other religious subject), though it's in principle possible to do the theology later on not many Jesuits these days do it that way. Then there's graduate school, where you get an MA or MS in whatever you want to teach, unless you decide to be a lawyer or doctor, in which case you go off to law or medical school. And as a Jesuit you will almost certainly also get an MA in theology. Then you spend two to three years doing a regency where you live in a Jesuit community and work, as a teacher, counselor or whatever. Then, unless you put off the theology stuff which you do now, you get ordained as a priest and are assigned to teach or work wherever there are Jesuits in the world. So if a man starts on becoming a Jesuit at 18 it'll be a good 12 to 14 years, and possibly longer. Of course that just means he's a Jesuit a priest, not a full member of the order. That comes a few years after being ordained, and there's no real set time frame, when you spend another year, basically doing your novitiate year over again and take the final vows.
2013-03-04 05:11:55 PM  
1 vote:
The thing with Jesuits is they're as has been mentioned academics, hardcore academics, a Jesuit will be as glad to teach you calculus or the history of the middle ages as he will be to teach you anything from the Bible. And many would rather teach you the calculus or history. What that academic background creates is an extremely thin tolerance for bullshiat from the church on various issues. They know the history, they know exactly what is dogma, when that dogma was created, what's a teaching etc etc. So when the Pope or someone else hauls off saying some teaching or something not even of that level can't be changed, the Jesuits tend to get a bit ticked. And they don't exactly care, many of them at any rate, for how the church has been run lately and how it's handled certain things. And there are plenty of Catholics who really don't like Jesuits because of their historical reputation and their attitudes towards certain things. It's no problem to find a Jesuit who will tell you there's no reason women can't be ordained as priests no matter what the church may officially try to claim. And that sort of thing doesn't sit well with people. If a Jesuit were elected Pope, once he got enough young cardinals in place, another ecumenical council probably Vatican III would be damn near certain. And if anyone thinks some people were a bit upset at what the church did at Vatican II, that would be nothing to what a Jesuit could have happen.
2013-03-04 05:03:11 PM  
1 vote:
It's funny that the Jesuits value logic, but forget the first rule of logic: garbage in, garbage out.
2013-03-04 04:25:26 PM  
1 vote:

neritz: WinoRhino: I have $10 on Turkson and O'Malley.

I've said it before, I really want to see Turkson get elected.  The butt hurt would be glorious.


That's the one reason I have him in there. A black US president and a black Pope? In my lifetime? It's more likely than you think! Pure awesome. Anyhow, I'm no longer a Catholic, but being raised in that faith, I think O'Malley is my sincere pick. He's worked with many abuse victims, some of whom have gone out of their way to say how much they appreciated him. Also, when he took over in the Boston area for Law, he eschewed all of the trappings the Law seemed to revel in. O'Malley wears plain brown robes, sandals, and sold the fancy residence and moved into a small apartment. He has doctorates in Spanish and Portuguese literature and is very well-respected in those cultures (40% of Catholics being from South America, that's a plus).
2013-03-04 04:12:12 PM  
1 vote:

show me: SLU?


Yes indeedy. My parents were afraid that'd I'd do little but bang co-eds and do drugs if I went to Mizzou (which I said I'd pay for) so they paid for SLU to keep me in town.

Suffice it to say, their cunning plan didn't really work. But hey, I met my wife, who's a damn sight more responsible than I am, so maybe it did.
2013-03-04 04:04:18 PM  
1 vote:

DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.


I'm not certain how to translate "oft-sarcastic prankster" into latin, but I bet I would find whatever that phrase is popping up frequently in the early writings about jesuits.

If you want social connections, join a methodist church. Fervor (and girls who like to drink)? Baptist. A serious party? Adventist. Low-key? Presbyterian. Mitt Romney's educated relatives? Episcopal. An argument? Jesuit. A fully-escalated holy war about the designated-hitter rule? Two jesuits. (seriously - I have an uncle who's a jesuit. I'll argue abortion, the existence of god, the nature of good vs. evil, and I'll have a worthy and enjoyable opponent. Baseball? I know my limits...)(more accurately, they're a subset of the catholic church, and I think - at least in the US - they are more of a presence on the east coast than in other parts of the country.)
2013-03-04 03:53:27 PM  
1 vote:
The Jesuits are sort of the Navy Seals of the priesthood.  With a Jesuit Pope, I wouldn't be surprised to see public hangings of pedophile priests in Vatican Square.
2013-03-04 03:53:25 PM  
1 vote:
s3.amazonaws.com

Jesuit-educated. Knows something about a Hail Mary.
2013-03-04 03:51:25 PM  
1 vote:

Skwach: Chach: hardinparamedic: So what does this mean for the Catholic Church's institutional cover-up of pedophilia and child predators for the past 1000 years?

It's been going on for 1000 years? Citation needed.

No, I think by now the burden of proof lies with the church. Usually, I do fall back on the presumption of innocence, but not on this anymore.
I think even the last 1,000 years is cutting them a break. We know that old Roman bureaucracies rolled into the Catholic Church as the empire collapsed. We also know that it was very common for Roman officials to have their boy as well as their wife. This practice continued even after it became sinful.


At one point, the Catholic establishment considered it strange if a priest wasn't married. Most priests in heretical sects would remain celibate, causing allegations that they were homosexuals. The term "buggery" comes from a word used to describe one of these sects from Bulgaria. So, no, that was not standard operating procedure in the ancient church.
2013-03-04 03:49:03 PM  
1 vote:
The Jesuits seem like the hoopy froods in the Catholic church.

That said, this story is much like all the others about the pope-that-might-be:

The church appears to be walking around in circles muttering "who are we?" over and over.
2013-03-04 03:45:44 PM  
1 vote:
This choice affects me not in the least.

media-cache-ec1.pinterest.com

Unless they put him in there, then I might consider converting
2013-03-04 03:45:30 PM  
1 vote:

Chach: hardinparamedic: So what does this mean for the Catholic Church's institutional cover-up of pedophilia and child predators for the past 1000 years?

It's been going on for 1000 years? Citation needed.


No, I think by now the burden of proof lies with the church. Usually, I do fall back on the presumption of innocence, but not on this anymore.
I think even the last 1,000 years is cutting them a break. We know that old Roman bureaucracies rolled into the Catholic Church as the empire collapsed. We also know that it was very common for Roman officials to have their boy as well as their wife. This practice continued even after it became sinful.
2013-03-04 03:40:39 PM  
1 vote:
Chris Hansen for Pope.
2013-03-04 03:39:17 PM  
1 vote:
If there is a Secret Vatican Intelligence Service, its run by the Jesuits.

/HUDSON HAWK was a documentary.
2013-03-04 03:37:35 PM  
1 vote:
Pope Guido Sarducci.
2013-03-04 03:30:03 PM  
1 vote:

vernonFL: I went to Jesuit high school, so I'm really getting a kick out of this thread.


I went to a Jesuit university, where healthy debate about my atheism was encouraged, so I am as well. (Seriously, I've never met anyone else who described themselves as very religious who were so tolerant of the fact that I didn't buy into it at all. It was quite refreshing.)

DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.


Jesuits love to argue. Others like to browbeat.
2013-03-04 03:28:15 PM  
1 vote:
Jehovah.

img.photobucket.com
2013-03-04 03:27:35 PM  
1 vote:
That made me laugh far more than it should have.

Well effing played, subby.

/Jesuits generally kick ass
//Christian Brothers not so much
///anecdotal experience is anecdotal
2013-03-04 03:07:58 PM  
1 vote:
Eh, go for it. I'm not Catholic, but someone pro-science and pro-learning would be nice.
2013-03-04 02:57:22 PM  
1 vote:

DamnYankees: As a non-Christian, I have never understood what a Jesuit is or how it's different than any other kind of Christian.


It isn't substantially different. Historically it was, but now it is mostly just the order that the serious scholars fall into.
 
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