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(TaxProf)   To avoid taxes, should medical marijuana sellers operate as nonprofits?   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line 184
    More: Interesting, local taxes, United States Code, nonprofits, income taxes, tax exemption, marijuana sellers  
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3393 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 1:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 02:27:01 PM  
Absolutely not.

After screaming about the 'tax benefits' of legal marijuana for years they had better not run around looking for a way out of paying taxes.
 
2013-03-04 02:29:43 PM  

jaytkay: modesto: Anything medical should be non profit.

"Medical" marijuana is a different category.


It's an entirely different kind of medicine altogether.
 
2013-03-04 02:30:41 PM  

TheXerox: I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?


Came here to say this.

Will also be here to laugh when all the harmful effects of decriminalization start cropping up despite the "it doesn't hurt anyone!!!!11 the fact that it's illegal causes more harm than the drug itself!!!11" crowd.
 
2013-03-04 02:31:43 PM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.
 
2013-03-04 02:31:51 PM  
This thread is one big game of "Spot Who Posted Without First Reading TFA".
 
2013-03-04 02:32:23 PM  

GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.


Ask the Japanese how long they can hold a grudge against people who didn't pay their taxes.
 
2013-03-04 02:32:53 PM  

TreehouseEngineer: Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

Additionally, to address other comments: Yes, it's a weed. And yes, getting it to grow and flower to produce  personal quantity of decent product is easy. But getting efficiently growing commercial quantities of GREAT product is NOT easy, or more correctly, is not cheap. If you can't subtract your costs for space, power, and labor from your gross profits due to some heavy-handed, and out-dated federal tax code, it will not be a for-profit business.

This is not about paying taxes, it is about being able to operate a profitable business.

/Farking, fark..


Are  you serious?  Loan sharks should be allowed to deduct the cost of baseball bats?
Human traffickers should be allowed to deduct the costs of transportation?  More pertinently, heroin dealers should be allowed to deduct the cost of their product?

De-schedule MJ and this problem goes away.  You can't solve it by changing tax laws without a shiatload of undesirable consequences.
 
2013-03-04 02:33:14 PM  
It should be a spare change kind of transaction, like the telescope lady down the street.  You give her a donation and she shows you a planet in the daytime.  Set up a hot-box on a stand next to the telescope lady and allow a hot-box hit in exchange for some pocket change.  It would also increase foot traffic during the noon hour and boost the local restaurants.  Using a hot-box would eliminate the smell.  Win - win for everyone.
 
2013-03-04 02:34:07 PM  

Chach: TheXerox: I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?

Came here to say this.

Will also be here to laugh when all the harmful effects of decriminalization start cropping up despite the "it doesn't hurt anyone!!!!11 the fact that it's illegal causes more harm than the drug itself!!!11" crowd.


You've never heard of Portugal, have you?
 
2013-03-04 02:34:18 PM  

lohphat: ecmoRandomNumbers: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

This.

Jesus Christ, tax-dodging has become our national sport.

Just look at Greece -- the bastion of a no-taxes-paid economy.


There's a difference between tax-dodging and tax avoidance. In the US, tax payers leap through nebulous, but legal, hoops, and pay legally-accurate tax bills. In Greece, people just don't report taxes, and don't pay what they report.
 
2013-03-04 02:35:59 PM  

thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.


TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.
 
2013-03-04 02:36:03 PM  
Yes they should.  All non-profit.
 
2013-03-04 02:36:04 PM  

headslacker: BarkingUnicorn: It's my understanding that every medical MJ law requires dispensers to operate as non-profits.

Barking unicorn is correct.
But what is really sad is the brain washed masses who want to pay more taxes. On anything really.
Read the new freedom by W Wilson.
We got screwed 100 years ago.
Hell even 20 years ago nobody wanted more taxes.
Giving the government more money is like
It's like giving a child another gun.

Pots Great! Now tax my vegetable garden.


Do you expect the police and fire department to come when you need them?  Do you drive on public roads?  Do you expect the military to defend the country?  Do you like getting food that doesn't have salmonella and ecoli all over it?  Do you like it that airplanes don't all crash?  Do you appreciate the fact that 16 ounces means the same thing in every store?

If you enjoy the benefits of civilization, you have a responsibility to help pay for it.  I am damned well fed up with childish, self-absorbed little brats who want the benefits but want someone else to pay for it.  I'm not your mom.
 
2013-03-04 02:36:18 PM  

TreehouseEngineer: Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

Additionally, to address other comments: Yes, it's a weed. And yes, getting it to grow and flower to produce  personal quantity of decent product is easy. But getting efficiently growing commercial quantities of GREAT product is NOT easy, or more correctly, is not cheap. If you can't subtract your costs for space, power, and labor from your gross profits due to some heavy-handed, and out-dated federal tax code, it will not be a for-profit business.

This is not about paying taxes, it is about being able to operate a profitable business.

/Farking, fark..


All I can hear is "WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH".  You don't want to get into an unprofitable business, don't start a weed business.  FFS, in California, the SELLERS (even the ass bags who pay no taxes) are now complaining that there is a glut of high quality weed available which has driven the cost of 1lb of good outdoor grown pot to $1200 or lower.  They're complaining because in this economy, too many people realized they can move to North Cali, rent some land (to hell with power, etc) and grow plenty of plants to sell (again, paying NO taxes, income or sales).

Seriously. NEVER HAPPY!!!

Sellers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! We can't deduct some things like every other business even though we're selling an illicit (at federal level) drug!
Sellers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! We're not making as much money because there's too many other dealers now!  There's too much pot out there!
Buyers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! I never had to pay taxes when I bought it from Jethro, 50 miles away in the country! This is BS!!!
 
2013-03-04 02:38:39 PM  

TheXerox: I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?


Did you ever know... That you're my heeeroooo....
 
2013-03-04 02:40:14 PM  

hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.



Get out of my country then.

Seriously, if paying for the privilege of living in a civilized society is too much of a "burden" for you, then get the hell out.  Go Galt, live in a Randian tax-free paradise, and more power to you.  I wish you the best of luck.  But stop using all of the benefits of civilization if you aren't willing to pay the costs.  You can't have your ice cream unless you finish your veggies.
 
2013-03-04 02:41:03 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market


As soon as the legal market feels the full impact of the cost of being legal (busness licenses, code compliance, FDA regulation. liability insurance, various payroll taxes, insruance mandates etc) you will start to see a difference in prices.


Think of the liability insurance alone. A street dealer is not subject to frivolous lawsuits while the legal dealer might find himself settling out of court for a harsh buzz.
 
2013-03-04 02:42:11 PM  
How about this.

Everyone gets a few seeds. They can plant it somewhere in their house or on their property. They can consume it as they wish. If they go out into the public and incapable of functioning at a safe level, they can be arrested.
Nobody has to sell anything to anyone.

Nah. That's crazy talk.
 
2013-03-04 02:42:19 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Are  you serious?  Loan sharks should be allowed to deduct the cost of baseball bats?
Human traffickers should be allowed to deduct the costs of transportation?  More pertinently, heroin dealers should be allowed to deduct the cost of their product?

De-schedule MJ and this problem goes away.  You can't solve it by changing tax laws without a shiatload of undesirable consequences.


This has nothing to do with marijuana's drug classification. All you have to do is repeal this peak of the Drug War relic of a law. It serves no purpose anyway, except now to interfere with people who are abiding by their state's law.

Now if the DEA wants to go and start raiding dispensaries, that's a different issue that would require revisiting the drug classification system.
 
2013-03-04 02:45:23 PM  

jigger: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

If you don't owe taxes they're not your taxes, are they?


This!
 
2013-03-04 02:45:30 PM  

FloydA: hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.


Get out of my country then.

Seriously, if paying for the privilege of living in a civilized society is too much of a "burden" for you, then get the hell out.  Go Galt, live in a Randian tax-free paradise, and more power to you.  I wish you the best of luck.  But stop using all of the benefits of civilization if you aren't willing to pay the costs.  You can't have your ice cream unless you finish your veggies.


I have to ask: do you take marital, mortgage interest, child or any other legal deductions when you file? Or do you just say, "F*ck that. Deductions are for whusses" and pay the straight up percentage for your tax bracket?

Because if its the former, you may be a hypocrite.
 
2013-03-04 02:48:42 PM  

BafflerMeal: They all got shut down by the feds? When exactly?


Most are going underground or have closed.  The Feds in the last 12 months are going crazy trying to shut them all down.  Most medical MJ locators have almost no dispensaries left, they're all having to go delivery only, or word of mouth only.  The Feds are going after the landlords, threatening to confiscate an entire building/complex under drug forfeiture laws.

Or at least that's the way it is in my chunk of CA.
 
2013-03-04 02:49:02 PM  
I say they pay their taxes as soon as the Feds stop kicking in their doors and throwing them in prison. Until then, fark em' (the Feds, that is).
 
2013-03-04 02:50:13 PM  
Avoid taxes? F*ck you you f*cking f*ck
 
2013-03-04 02:50:36 PM  

hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.


I agree. If you can get out of paying taxes or reduce your tax burden then do it.

/Mortgage Interest Rate Deductions
//Donating to the Human Fund
 
2013-03-04 02:50:46 PM  
These high taxes are bs.
Its only going to hurt all of the suffering people out there who have severe medical problems that can only be cured by smoking a fatty.
 
2013-03-04 02:51:10 PM  

hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.

Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.


LOLWhut?
 
2013-03-04 02:52:38 PM  

hardinparamedic: Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.


This is what happens when you smoke too much.
 
2013-03-04 02:52:41 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: How about this.

Everyone gets a few seeds. They can plant it somewhere in their house or on their property. They can consume it as they wish. If they go out into the public and incapable of functioning at a safe level, they can be arrested.
Nobody has to sell anything to anyone.

Nah. That's crazy talk.


Nation needs a Johnny Potseed. Travelling from field to field, planting potseeds.
Letting them grow free from GMO.
From sea to shining sea.
 
2013-03-04 02:53:01 PM  

ShawnDoc: BafflerMeal: They all got shut down by the feds? When exactly?

Most are going underground or have closed.  The Feds in the last 12 months are going crazy trying to shut them all down.  Most medical MJ locators have almost no dispensaries left, they're all having to go delivery only, or word of mouth only.  The Feds are going after the landlords, threatening to confiscate an entire building/complex under drug forfeiture laws.

Or at least that's the way it is in my chunk of CA.


Hrm.  In the southbay area, the professionally run shops have kept going.  It was the skeevy ones that generally go shut down quick.  Doesn't stop the various cities from being a PITA.  One of the best operations had to move locations because the corner of their building was six feet too close to a school somewhere.
 
2013-03-04 02:55:10 PM  
Seems to me that if you are a distributor of medical aid who recoups only the cost of the materials and nothing for your time, that is philanthropy, which should be elgible for a deduction from taxable income. If you include the cost of your time in the price, that is business. Oh sorry, I mean The Enterprise.
 
2013-03-04 02:55:20 PM  

randomjsa: Absolutely not.

After screaming about the 'tax benefits' of legal marijuana for years they had better not run around looking for a way out of paying taxes.


Then maybe they should tax otherwise legal medical marijuana sellers in the same way they tax other legitimate businesses?
 
2013-03-04 02:55:21 PM  

gilgigamesh: FloydA: hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.


Get out of my country then.

Seriously, if paying for the privilege of living in a civilized society is too much of a "burden" for you, then get the hell out.  Go Galt, live in a Randian tax-free paradise, and more power to you.  I wish you the best of luck.  But stop using all of the benefits of civilization if you aren't willing to pay the costs.  You can't have your ice cream unless you finish your veggies.

I have to ask: do you take marital, mortgage interest, child or any other legal deductions when you file? Or do you just say, "F*ck that. Deductions are for whusses" and pay the straight up percentage for your tax bracket?

Because if its the former, you may be a hypocrite.



WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?  You've got some very strange ideas about what "hypocrite" means.

I guess 30 years of GOP anti-tax propaganda makes everyone who actually wants the society to function and is willing to pay for that look pretty stupid, huh?
 
2013-03-04 02:55:50 PM  

vudukungfu: TheShavingofOccam123: How about this.

Everyone gets a few seeds. They can plant it somewhere in their house or on their property. They can consume it as they wish. If they go out into the public and incapable of functioning at a safe level, they can be arrested.
Nobody has to sell anything to anyone.

Nah. That's crazy talk.

Nation needs a Johnny Potseed. Travelling from field to field, planting potseeds.
Letting them grow free from GMO.
From sea to shining sea.


1.bp.blogspot.com

/We already got one
 
2013-03-04 02:56:20 PM  

vudukungfu: hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.

Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.

LOLWhut?


Uh, you didn't know that the reason that Marijuana is illegal is because of those dirty black folk, mexicans and chinamen?

If you do a little reading on early narcotics laws, many of them are there because of White Supremacist and Eugenics/Social Dawinistic beliefs about the people who used them.
 
2013-03-04 02:56:47 PM  

vudukungfu: LOLWhut?


The War on Drugs and the massive spike in incarceration rates (both done after the Civil Rights Movement) are considered to be based in institutionally racist policies. For example, white people use and sell drugs at about the same rate as as blacks and Latinos but the incarceration rates for those things are not even close to equal.
 
2013-03-04 02:56:55 PM  
Almost all the good pot trolls have been used up.

How about, pot is more cancerous than cigarettes.  Pot makes you sterile. Pot makes you grow biatch tits.

/it's like sleeping with a down syndrome girl. Easy and feels good
 
2013-03-04 02:57:50 PM  

Super Chronic: thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.

TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.


I missed that thanks.

I imagine that it's only a matter of time until someone with very big pockets wants to get into the weed game and lobbies Congress to make all the necessary changes to the tax code.

And I imagine what will happen sooner rather than later are corporations pushing for laws that help turn weed growing and selling into a monopoly for them.
 
2013-03-04 02:58:45 PM  

thornhill: Super Chronic: thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.

TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.

I missed that thanks.

I imagine that it's only a matter of time until someone with very big pockets wants to get into the weed game and lobbies Congress to make all the necessary changes to the tax code.

And I imagine what will happen sooner rather than later are corporations pushing for laws that help turn weed growing and selling into a monopoly for them.


Time to get Warren Buffet on this.
 
2013-03-04 02:59:45 PM  

Champion of the Sun: /it's like sleeping with a down syndrome girl. Easy and feels good


Until you give the Downs girl a heart attack. Then you're left looking like the girl in Clerks when you have a stiff on your stiff.
 
2013-03-04 03:00:23 PM  

FloydA: WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?


No, I am saying paying taxes on your net profit instead of your gross is not cheating, it's what every business has ever done in the history of taxed businesses.
 
2013-03-04 03:01:13 PM  
I love my tax accountant.  He should wear a wizard hat and robe. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_illegal_income_in_the_Unite d_ States

Ya, seems pretty dickish.
 
2013-03-04 03:01:52 PM  

Lucidz: Avoid taxes?  Wtf?  I thought part of the reason the red-eyed, dorito munching pot smokers were saying weed should be legalized was to tax it and that it would "solve the defecit"...

Now they're complaining about taxes?  WTH???

Do you want higher priced pot, or to go to prison.  Stoners are never happy.  Jeez.


considering this is about business operating tax and not commercial or sales tax which is were most believe "tax and cut deficit" help would come from I'd say you have no idea what you are blathering about.
 
2013-03-04 03:02:07 PM  

vudukungfu: Nation needs a Johnny Potseed. Travelling from field to field, planting potseeds.


If someone can come up with a perennial varietal that can overwinter in at least USDA zone 7, we'd have very different drug laws quickly.
 
2013-03-04 03:04:00 PM  

Mr Guy: If someone can come up with a perennial varietal that can overwinter in at least USDA zone 7, we'd have very different drug laws quickly.


www.indian-commodity.com

GET TO IT, PEOPLE. YOU ALREADY DEVELOPED LIBERTYLINK!
 
2013-03-04 03:04:43 PM  
Taxes are included in my Canadian fat sacs o' chron. That's what my guy tells me, I don't get receipts.
 
2013-03-04 03:05:47 PM  

BafflerMeal: thornhill: Super Chronic: thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.

TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.

I missed that thanks.

I imagine that it's only a matter of time until someone with very big pockets wants to get into the weed game and lobbies Congress to make all the necessary changes to the tax code.

And I imagine what will happen sooner rather than later are corporations pushing for laws that help turn weed growing and selling into a monopoly for them.

Time to get Warren Buffet on this.


I don't get why big tabacco isn't all over this. Seems like an obvious market for them to get into.
 
2013-03-04 03:08:52 PM  
FloydA. You're an idiot.
 
2013-03-04 03:11:47 PM  

barefoot in the head: Seems to me that if you are a distributor of medical aid who recoups only the cost of the materials and nothing for your time, that is philanthropy, which should be elgible for a deduction from taxable income. If you include the cost of your time in the price, that is business. Oh sorry, I mean The Enterprise.


Medical Aid!!!!

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-04 03:14:06 PM  

TheJoe03: vudukungfu: LOLWhut?

The War on Drugs and the massive spike in incarceration rates (both done after the Civil Rights Movement) are considered to be based in institutionally racist policies. For example, white people use and sell drugs at about the same rate as as blacks and Latinos but the incarceration rates for those things are not even close to equal.


hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.

Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.

LOLWhut?

Uh, you didn't know that the reason that Marijuana is illegal is because of those dirty black folk, mexicans and chinamen?

If you do a little reading on early narcotics laws, many of them are there because of White Supremacist and Eugenics/Social Dawinistic beliefs about the people who used them.


So I can inject the That's Racist kid into the MJ threads now?
(yeah, I knew about that stuff)
/nice to see others doing their homework and helping out.
 
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