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(TaxProf)   To avoid taxes, should medical marijuana sellers operate as nonprofits?   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line 184
    More: Interesting, local taxes, United States Code, nonprofits, income taxes, tax exemption, marijuana sellers  
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3393 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 1:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 01:41:59 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-04 01:48:02 PM  
they *are* doing god's work.
 
2013-03-04 01:50:09 PM  
Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market
 
2013-03-04 01:50:40 PM  
FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.
 
2013-03-04 01:55:02 PM  
To avoid taxes, you should move to Somalia.  Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization.  Pay up or get out.

"Go Galt" if you think that will work, I don't care, good luck to you, but you've either got to pay your share or give up the benefits of living in a civilized society, no ice cream until you finish your vegetables.
 
2013-03-04 01:55:35 PM  

GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.


This.

Jesus Christ, tax-dodging has become our national sport.
 
2013-03-04 01:56:01 PM  
You think the Feds are going to legalize a way to literally print money and not tax it?

Wow.

/likes how Tennessee did it. The penalty for getting caught selling pot with a tax stamp is far less than without it.
 
2013-03-04 01:57:34 PM  
First, the feds need to legalize MJ and then fix the farking tax codes.
Keeping street prices around the same as they are now isn't a problem since the vast majority of smokers (er... patients) are used to paying that, but if you make it too expensive, you won't kill the black market. OTOH, anti-MJ folks are probably OK with that since they can point to it and claim "ZOMG -Legalization doesn't work"
 
2013-03-04 01:57:59 PM  

GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.


If you don't owe taxes they're not your taxes, are they?
 
2013-03-04 01:58:22 PM  
Anything medical should be non profit.
 
2013-03-04 01:59:14 PM  
Are florists non-profit? No. They are glorified botanists. Pay taxes like everyone else.
 
2013-03-04 02:00:57 PM  

modesto: Anything medical should be non profit.


"Medical" marijuana is a different category.
 
2013-03-04 02:02:03 PM  
NFL and NCAA are non-profits so why not weed sellers.
 
2013-03-04 02:02:27 PM  
The FDA and USA should STFU and just let the medical MJ shops do what they want.
The sooner every one lights up and mellows out, they better it will be for everyone.

And yes, it makes me a bad person, but an painful ass cancer on anyone who would deny medical MJ to one suffering from cancer.
 
2013-03-04 02:02:27 PM  

hardinparamedic: You think the Feds are going to legalize a way to literally print money and not tax it?

Wow.

/likes how Tennessee did it. The penalty for getting caught selling pot with a tax stamp is far less than without it.


Literal . . .
affordablehousinginstitute.org
 
2013-03-04 02:02:59 PM  

modesto: Anything medical should be non profit.


i like that idea, considering it's a human necessity.
 
2013-03-04 02:04:01 PM  

modesto: Anything medical should be non profit.


Ideally, yes. I'd WELCOME a single payer, Government run system like the UK has, mainly for professionally selfish reasons, but otherwise because it would be better for patients as a whole.

That said, I don't think Non-profits work like this person thinks they work. You cannot claim to be a non-profit and make gangbusters without giving Uncle Sam his cut. You have to track and justify where those funds go, and they are public knowledge.
 
2013-03-04 02:04:09 PM  
You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.
 
2013-03-04 02:05:53 PM  
I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?
 
2013-03-04 02:06:28 PM  
To avoid taxes? How about to avoid being charged as the kingpin of a profitable grow/distribute operation?
 
2013-03-04 02:07:01 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

This.

Jesus Christ, tax-dodging has become our national sport.


Just look at Greece -- the bastion of a no-taxes-paid economy.
 
2013-03-04 02:07:12 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market


Here in Northern California the "legal" prices are like double the price as the street prices for the same quality.
 
2013-03-04 02:07:25 PM  
Well we let banks and corporations not pay taxes- why not?

/stupid idea all around
 
2013-03-04 02:08:11 PM  
I think they're completely missing the point of selling drugs.  In America, we profit from EVERYTHING.
 
2013-03-04 02:08:41 PM  

GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.


There is an anti-drug runner law called 280E that basically makes it so that they can't deduct anything as a business expense, including salaries.  Their tax bills are often higher than their total profits because of it.  Not only that, but the credit card companies and banks said they couldn't keep their money with them or have credit card transactions, so all of a sudden all of their transactions went cash only.  It's basically the perfect storm of cutting off the tax spigot that they were paying. In any case, the Californian ones are all supposed to be non-profits but they all got shut down by Federal DAs anyway.
 
2013-03-04 02:08:56 PM  
until the fed recognizes marijuana as legal and allows businesses to deduct normal business expenses the MM sector should do what ever it can to minimize it's tax burden.
 
2013-03-04 02:10:06 PM  
Sure....but why stop at "medical" marijuana? Let the oil companies become non profits too.
 
2013-03-04 02:10:23 PM  
If the NFL can operate as a 501(c)4, I see no problem with this.
 
2013-03-04 02:11:06 PM  
I guess no one read TFA, where it talks about a 75% federal tax being at issue.

/tax any business at 75% and it literally becomes a non-profit operation.
 
2013-03-04 02:12:05 PM  
It's my understanding that every medical MJ law requires dispensers to operate as non-profits.
 
2013-03-04 02:12:08 PM  

kbronsito: they *are* doing god's work.


Somebody has to...
 
2013-03-04 02:12:45 PM  

SnakeLee: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

There is an anti-drug runner law called 280E that basically makes it so that they can't deduct anything as a business expense, including salaries.  Their tax bills are often higher than their total profits because of it.  Not only that, but the credit card companies and banks said they couldn't keep their money with them or have credit card transactions, so all of a sudden all of their transactions went cash only.  It's basically the perfect storm of cutting off the tax spigot that they were paying. In any case, the Californian ones are all supposed to be non-profits but they all got shut down by Federal DAs anyway.


He doesn't care.

GAT is an authoritarian when it comes to drug laws. He doesn't think any anti-drug policy is too irrational or unfair to punish drug users for their victimless behavior.
 
2013-03-04 02:13:11 PM  
Step 3:  Profit?
 
2013-03-04 02:14:13 PM  

SnakeLee: so all of a sudden all of their transactions went cash only.


So it's a cash only business but their taxes are higher than their profits?  Someone doesn't understand the basics of "cash only business".
 
2013-03-04 02:14:24 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

This.

Jesus Christ, tax-dodging has become our national sport.


You mean acting as a Real American and doing out patriotic duty to use our tax system to our advantage, to help us all prosper as a nation?
 
2013-03-04 02:15:11 PM  
In California they're not allowed to sell medical marijuana for "profit" at all. Obviously they're paying their employees and the like, but if they're making huge profits, they're not in compliance with the state law. Now if we can just get the Cali DA to physically shield them from the feds, it'd be cool.

TheXerox: I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?


I'm wondering the same thing. I'm one of those "legalize it and tax it" people, but I'm thinking more like the tax we have on booze. I'm not real pleased at the 208 E levels of taxation, especially by an entity that could arrest you after you pay your taxes cuz the reason you're paying those taxes is you are engaged in what they view as a criminal enterprise - even if it is legal in your state.
 
2013-03-04 02:15:42 PM  

SnakeLee: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

There is an anti-drug runner law called 280E that basically makes it so that they can't deduct anything as a business expense, including salaries.  Their tax bills are often higher than their total profits because of it.  Not only that, but the credit card companies and banks said they couldn't keep their money with them or have credit card transactions, so all of a sudden all of their transactions went cash only.  It's basically the perfect storm of cutting off the tax spigot that they were paying. In any case, the Californian ones are all supposed to be non-profits but they all got shut down by Federal DAs anyway.


They all got shut down by the feds?  When exactly?
 
2013-03-04 02:17:12 PM  
If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.
 
2013-03-04 02:17:47 PM  

SnakeLee: In any case, the Californian ones are all supposed to be non-profits but they all got shut down by Federal DAs anyway.


Probably because it isn't believable.  I find it unlikely they really were all old-fashioned hippies running those who really were acting as non-profits.  But there's little reason to force them into a cash model like that.  A supposedly medical facility that is cash only?  It's a crock of shiat.  If it's a business, let them act like it.
 
2013-03-04 02:17:52 PM  
i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-03-04 02:18:00 PM  
Avoid taxes? But there is already a 25% excise tax on the sale between the producer, processor, and retailer!
 
2013-03-04 02:18:51 PM  

vudukungfu: If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.


Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.
 
2013-03-04 02:22:04 PM  
I believe in many states where medical weed is legal, it all HAS to be non profit.

I think some law maker didn't know what non-profit meant.
 
2013-03-04 02:23:11 PM  
Avoid taxes?  Wtf?  I thought part of the reason the red-eyed, dorito munching pot smokers were saying weed should be legalized was to tax it and that it would "solve the defecit"...

Now they're complaining about taxes?  WTH???

Do you want higher priced pot, or to go to prison.  Stoners are never happy.  Jeez.
 
2013-03-04 02:23:37 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: It's my understanding that every medical MJ law requires dispensers to operate as non-profits.


Barking unicorn is correct.
But what is really sad is the brain washed masses who want to pay more taxes. On anything really.
Read the new freedom by W Wilson.
We got screwed 100 years ago.
Hell even 20 years ago nobody wanted more taxes.
Giving the government more money is like
It's like giving a child another gun.

Pots Great! Now tax my vegetable garden.
 
2013-03-04 02:24:06 PM  
Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

Additionally, to address other comments: Yes, it's a weed. And yes, getting it to grow and flower to produce  personal quantity of decent product is easy. But getting efficiently growing commercial quantities of GREAT product is NOT easy, or more correctly, is not cheap. If you can't subtract your costs for space, power, and labor from your gross profits due to some heavy-handed, and out-dated federal tax code, it will not be a for-profit business.

This is not about paying taxes, it is about being able to operate a profitable business.

/Farking, fark..
 
2013-03-04 02:24:25 PM  

BafflerMeal: SnakeLee: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

There is an anti-drug runner law called 280E that basically makes it so that they can't deduct anything as a business expense, including salaries.  Their tax bills are often higher than their total profits because of it.  Not only that, but the credit card companies and banks said they couldn't keep their money with them or have credit card transactions, so all of a sudden all of their transactions went cash only.  It's basically the perfect storm of cutting off the tax spigot that they were paying. In any case, the Californian ones are all supposed to be non-profits but they all got shut down by Federal DAs anyway.

They all got shut down by the feds?  When exactly?


We still have 'em, we were just a bit thin on 'em for a while. Some of the growers were arrested by the feds, including two of the major growers/distributors out of San Francisco. That was quite some time ago, pre-Obama era, and I'm not sure how that case turned out. I got distracted by other news and since I'm not a pot smoker, I didn't keep track of the names of the dispensaries and growers involved.

/used to live by one
//good neighbors cuz they were way chill
 
2013-03-04 02:24:39 PM  
No.
 
2013-03-04 02:26:01 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

This.

Jesus Christ, tax-dodging has become our national sport.


Long ago, John Maynard Keynes said, "The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that still carries any reward."

The author of TFA is nuts if he thinks a "social welfare organization" that promotes social welfare by breaking federal law will ever get federal nonprofit status.  Christ, what an asshole!
 
2013-03-04 02:26:36 PM  
Without reading the article, I don't think they legally can operate as nonprofits. They produce and sell a product for monetary gain. I know when we send out letters to people who contribute to write off the taxes, we need to make sure that we mention that no goods or services were provided. The only other money we get comes from the government or grants from other nonprofits.
 
2013-03-04 02:27:01 PM  
Absolutely not.

After screaming about the 'tax benefits' of legal marijuana for years they had better not run around looking for a way out of paying taxes.
 
2013-03-04 02:29:43 PM  

jaytkay: modesto: Anything medical should be non profit.

"Medical" marijuana is a different category.


It's an entirely different kind of medicine altogether.
 
2013-03-04 02:30:41 PM  

TheXerox: I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?


Came here to say this.

Will also be here to laugh when all the harmful effects of decriminalization start cropping up despite the "it doesn't hurt anyone!!!!11 the fact that it's illegal causes more harm than the drug itself!!!11" crowd.
 
2013-03-04 02:31:43 PM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.
 
2013-03-04 02:31:51 PM  
This thread is one big game of "Spot Who Posted Without First Reading TFA".
 
2013-03-04 02:32:23 PM  

GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.


Ask the Japanese how long they can hold a grudge against people who didn't pay their taxes.
 
2013-03-04 02:32:53 PM  

TreehouseEngineer: Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

Additionally, to address other comments: Yes, it's a weed. And yes, getting it to grow and flower to produce  personal quantity of decent product is easy. But getting efficiently growing commercial quantities of GREAT product is NOT easy, or more correctly, is not cheap. If you can't subtract your costs for space, power, and labor from your gross profits due to some heavy-handed, and out-dated federal tax code, it will not be a for-profit business.

This is not about paying taxes, it is about being able to operate a profitable business.

/Farking, fark..


Are  you serious?  Loan sharks should be allowed to deduct the cost of baseball bats?
Human traffickers should be allowed to deduct the costs of transportation?  More pertinently, heroin dealers should be allowed to deduct the cost of their product?

De-schedule MJ and this problem goes away.  You can't solve it by changing tax laws without a shiatload of undesirable consequences.
 
2013-03-04 02:33:14 PM  
It should be a spare change kind of transaction, like the telescope lady down the street.  You give her a donation and she shows you a planet in the daytime.  Set up a hot-box on a stand next to the telescope lady and allow a hot-box hit in exchange for some pocket change.  It would also increase foot traffic during the noon hour and boost the local restaurants.  Using a hot-box would eliminate the smell.  Win - win for everyone.
 
2013-03-04 02:34:07 PM  

Chach: TheXerox: I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?

Came here to say this.

Will also be here to laugh when all the harmful effects of decriminalization start cropping up despite the "it doesn't hurt anyone!!!!11 the fact that it's illegal causes more harm than the drug itself!!!11" crowd.


You've never heard of Portugal, have you?
 
2013-03-04 02:34:18 PM  

lohphat: ecmoRandomNumbers: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

This.

Jesus Christ, tax-dodging has become our national sport.

Just look at Greece -- the bastion of a no-taxes-paid economy.


There's a difference between tax-dodging and tax avoidance. In the US, tax payers leap through nebulous, but legal, hoops, and pay legally-accurate tax bills. In Greece, people just don't report taxes, and don't pay what they report.
 
2013-03-04 02:35:59 PM  

thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.


TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.
 
2013-03-04 02:36:03 PM  
Yes they should.  All non-profit.
 
2013-03-04 02:36:04 PM  

headslacker: BarkingUnicorn: It's my understanding that every medical MJ law requires dispensers to operate as non-profits.

Barking unicorn is correct.
But what is really sad is the brain washed masses who want to pay more taxes. On anything really.
Read the new freedom by W Wilson.
We got screwed 100 years ago.
Hell even 20 years ago nobody wanted more taxes.
Giving the government more money is like
It's like giving a child another gun.

Pots Great! Now tax my vegetable garden.


Do you expect the police and fire department to come when you need them?  Do you drive on public roads?  Do you expect the military to defend the country?  Do you like getting food that doesn't have salmonella and ecoli all over it?  Do you like it that airplanes don't all crash?  Do you appreciate the fact that 16 ounces means the same thing in every store?

If you enjoy the benefits of civilization, you have a responsibility to help pay for it.  I am damned well fed up with childish, self-absorbed little brats who want the benefits but want someone else to pay for it.  I'm not your mom.
 
2013-03-04 02:36:18 PM  

TreehouseEngineer: Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

Additionally, to address other comments: Yes, it's a weed. And yes, getting it to grow and flower to produce  personal quantity of decent product is easy. But getting efficiently growing commercial quantities of GREAT product is NOT easy, or more correctly, is not cheap. If you can't subtract your costs for space, power, and labor from your gross profits due to some heavy-handed, and out-dated federal tax code, it will not be a for-profit business.

This is not about paying taxes, it is about being able to operate a profitable business.

/Farking, fark..


All I can hear is "WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH".  You don't want to get into an unprofitable business, don't start a weed business.  FFS, in California, the SELLERS (even the ass bags who pay no taxes) are now complaining that there is a glut of high quality weed available which has driven the cost of 1lb of good outdoor grown pot to $1200 or lower.  They're complaining because in this economy, too many people realized they can move to North Cali, rent some land (to hell with power, etc) and grow plenty of plants to sell (again, paying NO taxes, income or sales).

Seriously. NEVER HAPPY!!!

Sellers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! We can't deduct some things like every other business even though we're selling an illicit (at federal level) drug!
Sellers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! We're not making as much money because there's too many other dealers now!  There's too much pot out there!
Buyers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! I never had to pay taxes when I bought it from Jethro, 50 miles away in the country! This is BS!!!
 
2013-03-04 02:38:39 PM  

TheXerox: I wonder how many of the people who are complaining about the mj taxation are the same people who said "Legalize it and tax the hell out of it."?


Did you ever know... That you're my heeeroooo....
 
2013-03-04 02:40:14 PM  

hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.



Get out of my country then.

Seriously, if paying for the privilege of living in a civilized society is too much of a "burden" for you, then get the hell out.  Go Galt, live in a Randian tax-free paradise, and more power to you.  I wish you the best of luck.  But stop using all of the benefits of civilization if you aren't willing to pay the costs.  You can't have your ice cream unless you finish your veggies.
 
2013-03-04 02:41:03 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market


As soon as the legal market feels the full impact of the cost of being legal (busness licenses, code compliance, FDA regulation. liability insurance, various payroll taxes, insruance mandates etc) you will start to see a difference in prices.


Think of the liability insurance alone. A street dealer is not subject to frivolous lawsuits while the legal dealer might find himself settling out of court for a harsh buzz.
 
2013-03-04 02:42:11 PM  
How about this.

Everyone gets a few seeds. They can plant it somewhere in their house or on their property. They can consume it as they wish. If they go out into the public and incapable of functioning at a safe level, they can be arrested.
Nobody has to sell anything to anyone.

Nah. That's crazy talk.
 
2013-03-04 02:42:19 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Are  you serious?  Loan sharks should be allowed to deduct the cost of baseball bats?
Human traffickers should be allowed to deduct the costs of transportation?  More pertinently, heroin dealers should be allowed to deduct the cost of their product?

De-schedule MJ and this problem goes away.  You can't solve it by changing tax laws without a shiatload of undesirable consequences.


This has nothing to do with marijuana's drug classification. All you have to do is repeal this peak of the Drug War relic of a law. It serves no purpose anyway, except now to interfere with people who are abiding by their state's law.

Now if the DEA wants to go and start raiding dispensaries, that's a different issue that would require revisiting the drug classification system.
 
2013-03-04 02:45:23 PM  

jigger: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

If you don't owe taxes they're not your taxes, are they?


This!
 
2013-03-04 02:45:30 PM  

FloydA: hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.


Get out of my country then.

Seriously, if paying for the privilege of living in a civilized society is too much of a "burden" for you, then get the hell out.  Go Galt, live in a Randian tax-free paradise, and more power to you.  I wish you the best of luck.  But stop using all of the benefits of civilization if you aren't willing to pay the costs.  You can't have your ice cream unless you finish your veggies.


I have to ask: do you take marital, mortgage interest, child or any other legal deductions when you file? Or do you just say, "F*ck that. Deductions are for whusses" and pay the straight up percentage for your tax bracket?

Because if its the former, you may be a hypocrite.
 
2013-03-04 02:48:42 PM  

BafflerMeal: They all got shut down by the feds? When exactly?


Most are going underground or have closed.  The Feds in the last 12 months are going crazy trying to shut them all down.  Most medical MJ locators have almost no dispensaries left, they're all having to go delivery only, or word of mouth only.  The Feds are going after the landlords, threatening to confiscate an entire building/complex under drug forfeiture laws.

Or at least that's the way it is in my chunk of CA.
 
2013-03-04 02:49:02 PM  
I say they pay their taxes as soon as the Feds stop kicking in their doors and throwing them in prison. Until then, fark em' (the Feds, that is).
 
2013-03-04 02:50:13 PM  
Avoid taxes? F*ck you you f*cking f*ck
 
2013-03-04 02:50:36 PM  

hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.


I agree. If you can get out of paying taxes or reduce your tax burden then do it.

/Mortgage Interest Rate Deductions
//Donating to the Human Fund
 
2013-03-04 02:50:46 PM  
These high taxes are bs.
Its only going to hurt all of the suffering people out there who have severe medical problems that can only be cured by smoking a fatty.
 
2013-03-04 02:51:10 PM  

hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.

Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.


LOLWhut?
 
2013-03-04 02:52:38 PM  

hardinparamedic: Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.


This is what happens when you smoke too much.
 
2013-03-04 02:52:41 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: How about this.

Everyone gets a few seeds. They can plant it somewhere in their house or on their property. They can consume it as they wish. If they go out into the public and incapable of functioning at a safe level, they can be arrested.
Nobody has to sell anything to anyone.

Nah. That's crazy talk.


Nation needs a Johnny Potseed. Travelling from field to field, planting potseeds.
Letting them grow free from GMO.
From sea to shining sea.
 
2013-03-04 02:53:01 PM  

ShawnDoc: BafflerMeal: They all got shut down by the feds? When exactly?

Most are going underground or have closed.  The Feds in the last 12 months are going crazy trying to shut them all down.  Most medical MJ locators have almost no dispensaries left, they're all having to go delivery only, or word of mouth only.  The Feds are going after the landlords, threatening to confiscate an entire building/complex under drug forfeiture laws.

Or at least that's the way it is in my chunk of CA.


Hrm.  In the southbay area, the professionally run shops have kept going.  It was the skeevy ones that generally go shut down quick.  Doesn't stop the various cities from being a PITA.  One of the best operations had to move locations because the corner of their building was six feet too close to a school somewhere.
 
2013-03-04 02:55:10 PM  
Seems to me that if you are a distributor of medical aid who recoups only the cost of the materials and nothing for your time, that is philanthropy, which should be elgible for a deduction from taxable income. If you include the cost of your time in the price, that is business. Oh sorry, I mean The Enterprise.
 
2013-03-04 02:55:20 PM  

randomjsa: Absolutely not.

After screaming about the 'tax benefits' of legal marijuana for years they had better not run around looking for a way out of paying taxes.


Then maybe they should tax otherwise legal medical marijuana sellers in the same way they tax other legitimate businesses?
 
2013-03-04 02:55:21 PM  

gilgigamesh: FloydA: hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.


Get out of my country then.

Seriously, if paying for the privilege of living in a civilized society is too much of a "burden" for you, then get the hell out.  Go Galt, live in a Randian tax-free paradise, and more power to you.  I wish you the best of luck.  But stop using all of the benefits of civilization if you aren't willing to pay the costs.  You can't have your ice cream unless you finish your veggies.

I have to ask: do you take marital, mortgage interest, child or any other legal deductions when you file? Or do you just say, "F*ck that. Deductions are for whusses" and pay the straight up percentage for your tax bracket?

Because if its the former, you may be a hypocrite.



WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?  You've got some very strange ideas about what "hypocrite" means.

I guess 30 years of GOP anti-tax propaganda makes everyone who actually wants the society to function and is willing to pay for that look pretty stupid, huh?
 
2013-03-04 02:55:50 PM  

vudukungfu: TheShavingofOccam123: How about this.

Everyone gets a few seeds. They can plant it somewhere in their house or on their property. They can consume it as they wish. If they go out into the public and incapable of functioning at a safe level, they can be arrested.
Nobody has to sell anything to anyone.

Nah. That's crazy talk.

Nation needs a Johnny Potseed. Travelling from field to field, planting potseeds.
Letting them grow free from GMO.
From sea to shining sea.


1.bp.blogspot.com

/We already got one
 
2013-03-04 02:56:20 PM  

vudukungfu: hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.

Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.

LOLWhut?


Uh, you didn't know that the reason that Marijuana is illegal is because of those dirty black folk, mexicans and chinamen?

If you do a little reading on early narcotics laws, many of them are there because of White Supremacist and Eugenics/Social Dawinistic beliefs about the people who used them.
 
2013-03-04 02:56:47 PM  

vudukungfu: LOLWhut?


The War on Drugs and the massive spike in incarceration rates (both done after the Civil Rights Movement) are considered to be based in institutionally racist policies. For example, white people use and sell drugs at about the same rate as as blacks and Latinos but the incarceration rates for those things are not even close to equal.
 
2013-03-04 02:56:55 PM  
Almost all the good pot trolls have been used up.

How about, pot is more cancerous than cigarettes.  Pot makes you sterile. Pot makes you grow biatch tits.

/it's like sleeping with a down syndrome girl. Easy and feels good
 
2013-03-04 02:57:50 PM  

Super Chronic: thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.

TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.


I missed that thanks.

I imagine that it's only a matter of time until someone with very big pockets wants to get into the weed game and lobbies Congress to make all the necessary changes to the tax code.

And I imagine what will happen sooner rather than later are corporations pushing for laws that help turn weed growing and selling into a monopoly for them.
 
2013-03-04 02:58:45 PM  

thornhill: Super Chronic: thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.

TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.

I missed that thanks.

I imagine that it's only a matter of time until someone with very big pockets wants to get into the weed game and lobbies Congress to make all the necessary changes to the tax code.

And I imagine what will happen sooner rather than later are corporations pushing for laws that help turn weed growing and selling into a monopoly for them.


Time to get Warren Buffet on this.
 
2013-03-04 02:59:45 PM  

Champion of the Sun: /it's like sleeping with a down syndrome girl. Easy and feels good


Until you give the Downs girl a heart attack. Then you're left looking like the girl in Clerks when you have a stiff on your stiff.
 
2013-03-04 03:00:23 PM  

FloydA: WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?


No, I am saying paying taxes on your net profit instead of your gross is not cheating, it's what every business has ever done in the history of taxed businesses.
 
2013-03-04 03:01:13 PM  
I love my tax accountant.  He should wear a wizard hat and robe. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_illegal_income_in_the_Unite d_ States

Ya, seems pretty dickish.
 
2013-03-04 03:01:52 PM  

Lucidz: Avoid taxes?  Wtf?  I thought part of the reason the red-eyed, dorito munching pot smokers were saying weed should be legalized was to tax it and that it would "solve the defecit"...

Now they're complaining about taxes?  WTH???

Do you want higher priced pot, or to go to prison.  Stoners are never happy.  Jeez.


considering this is about business operating tax and not commercial or sales tax which is were most believe "tax and cut deficit" help would come from I'd say you have no idea what you are blathering about.
 
2013-03-04 03:02:07 PM  

vudukungfu: Nation needs a Johnny Potseed. Travelling from field to field, planting potseeds.


If someone can come up with a perennial varietal that can overwinter in at least USDA zone 7, we'd have very different drug laws quickly.
 
2013-03-04 03:04:00 PM  

Mr Guy: If someone can come up with a perennial varietal that can overwinter in at least USDA zone 7, we'd have very different drug laws quickly.


www.indian-commodity.com

GET TO IT, PEOPLE. YOU ALREADY DEVELOPED LIBERTYLINK!
 
2013-03-04 03:04:43 PM  
Taxes are included in my Canadian fat sacs o' chron. That's what my guy tells me, I don't get receipts.
 
2013-03-04 03:05:47 PM  

BafflerMeal: thornhill: Super Chronic: thornhill: You're going to need a really good tax attorney to argue this with the IRS because they're going to laugh their asses off when they receive your application for 501c3 status.

TFA suggests 501c4, not c3, but I think you have a point -- as long as what you are doing is against federal policy, it's going to be a tough slog getting the approval through the federal government.

I missed that thanks.

I imagine that it's only a matter of time until someone with very big pockets wants to get into the weed game and lobbies Congress to make all the necessary changes to the tax code.

And I imagine what will happen sooner rather than later are corporations pushing for laws that help turn weed growing and selling into a monopoly for them.

Time to get Warren Buffet on this.


I don't get why big tabacco isn't all over this. Seems like an obvious market for them to get into.
 
2013-03-04 03:08:52 PM  
FloydA. You're an idiot.
 
2013-03-04 03:11:47 PM  

barefoot in the head: Seems to me that if you are a distributor of medical aid who recoups only the cost of the materials and nothing for your time, that is philanthropy, which should be elgible for a deduction from taxable income. If you include the cost of your time in the price, that is business. Oh sorry, I mean The Enterprise.


Medical Aid!!!!

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-04 03:14:06 PM  

TheJoe03: vudukungfu: LOLWhut?

The War on Drugs and the massive spike in incarceration rates (both done after the Civil Rights Movement) are considered to be based in institutionally racist policies. For example, white people use and sell drugs at about the same rate as as blacks and Latinos but the incarceration rates for those things are not even close to equal.


hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: If I can grow farking Asprin in my own back yard, they government should STFU and let me enjoy life with out any headaches.

Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.

LOLWhut?

Uh, you didn't know that the reason that Marijuana is illegal is because of those dirty black folk, mexicans and chinamen?

If you do a little reading on early narcotics laws, many of them are there because of White Supremacist and Eugenics/Social Dawinistic beliefs about the people who used them.


So I can inject the That's Racist kid into the MJ threads now?
(yeah, I knew about that stuff)
/nice to see others doing their homework and helping out.
 
2013-03-04 03:15:09 PM  

FloydA: WTF? You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite? You've got some very strange ideas about what "hypocrite" means.

I guess 30 years of GOP anti-tax propaganda makes everyone who actually wants the society to function and is willing to pay for that look pretty stupid, huh?


No, you moron. He is saying that taking advantage of the tax deductions, credits, and exemptions in the tax code is not cheating and that you very likely do it yourself. He is right.
 
2013-03-04 03:15:36 PM  
we lose billions a year from churches..
 
2013-03-04 03:17:38 PM  

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Lucidz: Avoid taxes?  Wtf?  I thought part of the reason the red-eyed, dorito munching pot smokers were saying weed should be legalized was to tax it and that it would "solve the defecit"...

Now they're complaining about taxes?  WTH???

Do you want higher priced pot, or to go to prison.  Stoners are never happy.  Jeez.

considering this is about business operating tax and not commercial or sales tax which is were most believe "tax and cut deficit" help would come from I'd say you have no idea what you are blathering about.


So, the business owners are not taking business operational costs into account?  Most businesses, when faced with increased/unexpected/higher operational costs, increase the cost of the product to the end purchaser.

If they are not doing that, then that makes the business owners bad business men.
 
2013-03-04 03:17:50 PM  
shouldn't have to pay federal taxes on something that is a federal crime
 
2013-03-04 03:20:45 PM  

hardinparamedic: Nice to know that 80 years later, policies steeped in Racism and White Supremacy still permeate through the government in our drug policy.


It's all just that simple, man. I tell ya.
 
2013-03-04 03:23:36 PM  
If you want that type of business to continue as well as the continued proliferation of legal recreational use, I would suggest they continue to be "for profit" and pay taxes.  If the city/county/state can make money off of it then they will "support" it.  If not, it becomes a danger to "the children" and stuff; and you know what happens then.
 
2013-03-04 03:23:37 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: GAT_00: FFS, pay your farking taxes you sniveling little farks.

This.

Jesus Christ, tax-dodging has become our national sport.


If that's the model we want to go with then no business should be able to deduct any operating expenses.
 
2013-03-04 03:24:30 PM  

Lucidz: If they are not doing that, then that makes the business owners bad business men.


They're not allowed to do that under the tax law. That's the point of the article.
 
2013-03-04 03:25:03 PM  

gilgigamesh: BarkingUnicorn: Are  you serious?  Loan sharks should be allowed to deduct the cost of baseball bats?
Human traffickers should be allowed to deduct the costs of transportation?  More pertinently, heroin dealers should be allowed to deduct the cost of their product?

De-schedule MJ and this problem goes away.  You can't solve it by changing tax laws without a shiatload of undesirable consequences.

This has nothing to do with marijuana's drug classification. All you have to do is repeal this peak of the Drug War relic of a law. It serves no purpose anyway, except now to interfere with people who are abiding by their state's law.

Now if the DEA wants to go and start raiding dispensaries, that's a different issue that would require revisiting the drug classification system.


Actually it does. The tax law is based on proceeds of crime. Remove the crime and the tax law doesn't apply.

2 Birds, one nug.
 
2013-03-04 03:27:16 PM  

Lucidz: TrainingWheelsNeeded: Lucidz: Avoid taxes?  Wtf?  I thought part of the reason the red-eyed, dorito munching pot smokers were saying weed should be legalized was to tax it and that it would "solve the defecit"...

Now they're complaining about taxes?  WTH???

Do you want higher priced pot, or to go to prison.  Stoners are never happy.  Jeez.

considering this is about business operating tax and not commercial or sales tax which is were most believe "tax and cut deficit" help would come from I'd say you have no idea what you are blathering about.

So, the business owners are not taking business operational costs into account?  Most businesses, when faced with increased/unexpected/higher operational costs, increase the cost of the product to the end purchaser.

If they are not doing that, then that makes the business owners bad business men.


from earlier in thread: by Treehouse Engineer

Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

also see: a law called 280E that basically makes it so that they can't deduct anything as a business expense, including salaries.

Dispensaries have a whole set of tax laws only they are beholden too, beer, liquor, cigarette, pharmaceutical companies don't have these same obligations. seems unfair, huh?
 
2013-03-04 03:28:27 PM  

gilgigamesh: FloydA: WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?

No, I am saying paying taxes on your net profit instead of your gross is not cheating, it's what every business has ever done in the history of taxed businesses.


Yes, and that is my legitimate tax burden.  That's what the law says I should pay, so I pay it.  I don't try to declare myself a 501(c) to get out of what I owe.  If that sounds hypocritical to you, well, I don't know what to say.
 
2013-03-04 03:29:22 PM  

vudukungfu: TheShavingofOccam123: How about this.

Everyone gets a few seeds. They can plant it somewhere in their house or on their property. They can consume it as they wish. If they go out into the public and incapable of functioning at a safe level, they can be arrested.
Nobody has to sell anything to anyone.

Nah. That's crazy talk.

Nation needs a Johnny Potseed. Travelling from field to field, planting potseeds.
Letting them grow free from GMO.
From sea to shining sea.


Reminds me of a time a friend that took a bunch of ground up shrooms and used a fertilizer machine to spread it in a field. Only time I ever saw the dude skip and sing with a smile on his face.
 
2013-03-04 03:29:43 PM  

headslacker: FloydA. You're an idiot.


Thank you for your eloquent, well-supported, and well thought out refutation of my point.  I find it very convincing of something.
 
2013-03-04 03:32:25 PM  

TrainingWheelsNeeded: The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits


Let's reword this so people have a better chance of understanding:  Businesses pay taxes on net profit, not gross income.  The law says marijuana, being federally illegal, is legally defined to just spring up on the ground in convenient, customer sized bags, so all for marijuana, you have pay taxes as if your operating expenses didn't exist.   This is only a problem for people who need to pay suppliers, utilities, workers, and other taxes with their proceeds.
 
2013-03-04 03:34:56 PM  
Just make it flat out LEGAL to grow and then tax the hell out of anyone stupid enough to buy it.
 
2013-03-04 03:35:03 PM  

FloydA: headslacker: FloydA. You're an idiot.

Thank you for your eloquent, well-supported, and well thought out refutation of my point.  I find it very convincing of something.


Any response with more complexity would have just confused you. He was just taking your mental disability into account.
 
2013-03-04 03:36:54 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Lucidz: If they are not doing that, then that makes the business owners bad business men.

They're not allowed to do that under the tax law. That's the point of the article.


They aren't allowed to increase the price of the product?????
 
2013-03-04 03:37:04 PM  

FloydA: gilgigamesh: FloydA: WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?

No, I am saying paying taxes on your net profit instead of your gross is not cheating, it's what every business has ever done in the history of taxed businesses.

Yes, and that is my legitimate tax burden.  That's what the law says I should pay, so I pay it.  I don't try to declare myself a 501(c) to get out of what I owe.  If that sounds hypocritical to you, well, I don't know what to say.


In this case, we rewrote the tax law to make sure that marijuana dispensaries could not legally be operated profitably.  Now people want to use the tax code to their maximum benefit because we deliberately wrote the tax to punish them.  Any business is justified in being upset when federal tax code is rewritten in a nonsensical way just to prevent states from overriding federal drug laws, and are justified in restructuring in order to fit into a different part of the tax code without an unjust burden.
 
2013-03-04 03:38:19 PM  

TheJoe03: vudukungfu: LOLWhut?

The War on Drugs and the massive spike in incarceration rates (both done after the Civil Rights Movement) are considered to be based in institutionally racist policies. For example, white people use and sell drugs at about the same rate as as blacks and Latinos but the incarceration rates for those things are not even close to equal.



Wrong, fool. It was made illegal by the influence of DuPont which wanted to replace hemp rope, used in all ships, with it's new synthetic rope made of dacron fiber. This was tremendously profitable for DuPont as WWII was on the horizon. Then when it was discovered that Dacron stretched in seawater, Hemp For Victory was quickly pushed in the farmers till right after the war then it was back to fark you again.

And Nixon ramped up the drug war, after numerous studies, and testifying to Congress, by the American Medical Association, saying it was harmless, beneficial and should be legal, to get the Vietnam anti-war protesters off his lawn. Both times, pot was criminalized for the benefit of war profiteering.

Whites want legal pot as much as anybody else so take your racism and shove it.
 
2013-03-04 03:38:20 PM  

ShawnDoc: BafflerMeal: They all got shut down by the feds? When exactly?

Most are going underground or have closed.  The Feds in the last 12 months are going crazy trying to shut them all down.  Most medical MJ locators have almost no dispensaries left, they're all having to go delivery only, or word of mouth only.  The Feds are going after the landlords, threatening to confiscate an entire building/complex under drug forfeiture laws.

Or at least that's the way it is in my chunk of CA.


Same here

/NoCal
 
2013-03-04 03:38:52 PM  
Wow...this has to be a record for most people commenting like they know wtf they're talking about without even RTFA
 
2013-03-04 03:39:15 PM  

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Lucidz: TrainingWheelsNeeded: Lucidz: Avoid taxes?  Wtf?  I thought part of the reason the red-eyed, dorito munching pot smokers were saying weed should be legalized was to tax it and that it would "solve the defecit"...

Now they're complaining about taxes?  WTH???

Do you want higher priced pot, or to go to prison.  Stoners are never happy.  Jeez.

considering this is about business operating tax and not commercial or sales tax which is were most believe "tax and cut deficit" help would come from I'd say you have no idea what you are blathering about.

So, the business owners are not taking business operational costs into account?  Most businesses, when faced with increased/unexpected/higher operational costs, increase the cost of the product to the end purchaser.

If they are not doing that, then that makes the business owners bad business men.

from earlier in thread: by Treehouse Engineer

Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

also see: a law called 280E that basically makes it so that they can't deduct anything as a business expense, including salaries.

Dispensaries have a whole set of tax laws only they are beholden too, beer, liquor, cigarette, pharmaceutical companies don't have these same obligations. seems unfair, huh?


Pharmaceuticals aren't illegal on a federal level, so, no. Doesn't seem unfair at all.
 
2013-03-04 03:43:28 PM  

Mr Guy: FloydA: gilgigamesh: FloydA: WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?

No, I am saying paying taxes on your net profit instead of your gross is not cheating, it's what every business has ever done in the history of taxed businesses.

Yes, and that is my legitimate tax burden.  That's what the law says I should pay, so I pay it.  I don't try to declare myself a 501(c) to get out of what I owe.  If that sounds hypocritical to you, well, I don't know what to say.

In this case, we rewrote the tax law to make sure that marijuana dispensaries could not legally be operated profitably.  Now people want to use the tax code to their maximum benefit because we deliberately wrote the tax to punish them.  Any business is justified in being upset when federal tax code is rewritten in a nonsensical way just to prevent states from overriding federal drug laws, and are justified in restructuring in order to fit into a different part of the tax code without an unjust burden.


So change the law.  If the federal tax code is written in a way that seems unfair to you, advocate for re-writing it and support candidates who consider that a priority.  If enough people agree that the tax code should be changed, those candidates will win and those policies will be enacted.
 
2013-03-04 03:44:10 PM  

FloydA: gilgigamesh: FloydA: WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?

No, I am saying paying taxes on your net profit instead of your gross is not cheating, it's what every business has ever done in the history of taxed businesses.

Yes, and that is my legitimate tax burden.  That's what the law says I should pay, so I pay it.  I don't try to declare myself a 501(c) to get out of what I owe.  If that sounds hypocritical to you, well, I don't know what to say.



Speaking of legitimate tax burden, maybe there would be more support for taxes if they only paid for the good things you mention, and not for bloat and other shiat like the drug war, the TSA, generations of welfare, war profiteering, corporate welfare, tax cuts for the rich, policing the entire world, etc. Everyone else can add to this list of shiat they would rather our now excessive taxes did not have to pay for.
 
2013-03-04 03:44:49 PM  

keepitcherry: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market

Here in Northern California the "legal" prices are like double the price as the street prices for the same quality.


Where the fark do you live?  In San Francisco (commonly considered NorCal), the street prices are roughly 40-50/3.5grams.    The quality is... well, based mostly on opinion and I won't argue it.  Now, the club prices are set at 15/gram.  The quality is top notch by any standard, and it's consistent.  (this assumes you are buying buds, if you buy edibles or shake or whatever the pricing changes)

I don't know if you are just talking out your ass, or if you are getting ripped off by someone.  In either case, I think it's safe to say that you don't represent the average.
 
2013-03-04 03:45:08 PM  

FloydA: gilgigamesh: FloydA: WTF?  You're saying that if I don't cheat, I'm a hypocrite?

No, I am saying paying taxes on your net profit instead of your gross is not cheating, it's what every business has ever done in the history of taxed businesses.

Yes, and that is my legitimate tax burden.  That's what the law says I should pay, so I pay it.  I don't try to declare myself a 501(c) to get out of what I owe.  If that sounds hypocritical to you, well, I don't know what to say.


If you try to declare yourself as a 501(c) to avoid paying income taxes, that would be tax fraud. If a business obtains approval of 501(c) status, that is legal (assuming, of course, that after expenses the business does not generate a profit).

If they operate as a nonprofit, they are using a legal method to avoid an onerous, punitive tax which would otherwise make it literally impossible for them to operate.

Now, I should qualify all this by stressing that I seriously doubt the IRS would approve 501(c) status for dispensaries. But if this would actually succeed, it should be applauded. Using this archaic law to punish people operating legal businesses under state law is a violation of the principles of federalism.
 
2013-03-04 03:56:32 PM  
Gubment do take a bite.
 
2013-03-04 03:58:07 PM  

WeenerGord: It was made illegal by the influence of DuPont which wanted to replace hemp rope, used in all ships, with it's new synthetic rope made of dacron fiber


That dacron stuff, they make that out of Oil, right?
They have a processing plant in Dacron, Ohio.

Why doesn't a TV show ever show this truths so the American people will know.
It should be on the history channel.
You would think someone could produce a show that shows all of this profiteering on war by making weed a crime.
Seriously.
Do I need to go over to Boing Boing and shout out for a kickstart on production of such a series?
 
2013-03-04 03:58:15 PM  

itsanillusionmichael: Wow...this has to be a record for most people commenting like they know wtf they're talking about without even RTFA


You got that right.

Let's just convert this into a bud-pron thread.  Post pics of the medicine in question.
 
2013-03-04 03:58:24 PM  

FloydA:  If enough people agree that the tax code should be changed, those candidates will win and those policies will be enacted.


That sounds good in theory, but it never works that way in real life.  Colorado has legalized marijuana because ... our state representatives followed the will of the people and passed a legalization law?  Hell no.  It was legalized through a referendum, a direct vote of the people on the issue.  If left to our politicians, there would be no movement on this issue.

If you think elected officials represent voters, you are naive.
 
2013-03-04 03:59:30 PM  

umad: FloydA: headslacker: FloydA. You're an idiot.

Thank you for your eloquent, well-supported, and well thought out refutation of my point.  I find it very convincing of something.

Any response with more complexity would have just confused you. He was just taking your mental disability into account.


Smaller words bro. I think you just broke him.
 
2013-03-04 04:04:04 PM  

Rodeodoc: SnakeLee: so all of a sudden all of their transactions went cash only.

So it's a cash only business but their taxes are higher than their profits?  Someone doesn't understand the basics of "cash only business".


280E was obviously passed before the credit card companies and banks took away their ability to use credit cards and bank accounts.  Try to reread it again
 
2013-03-04 04:06:22 PM  

Lucidz: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Lucidz: If they are not doing that, then that makes the business owners bad business men.

They're not allowed to do that under the tax law. That's the point of the article.

They aren't allowed to increase the price of the product?????


They're still paying taxes on the gross income, no matter what it is, and they're not permitted under our state laws to sell for profit and to compound the problem, they cannot deduct salaries, or any other operating expenses under the federal tax law. Your argument was that they were bad businessmen for not deducting those things as other businesses do, not about pricing at the retail level. Pricing can vary wildly based on location. This raising of prices in some areas is why we still have illegal grows mucking up state and federal forests and parks. In some areas it really is cheaper (not to mention easier) to buy it from the shifty dude on the corner, who may or may not be Mara Salvatrucha (though I think they're more the weapons specialists in my area) than it is to buy it from a state licensed dispensary.
 
2013-03-04 04:06:54 PM  

FloydA: So change the law. If the federal tax code is written in a way that seems unfair to you, advocate for re-writing it and support candidates who consider that a priority. If enough people agree that the tax code should be changed, those candidates will win and those policies will be enacted.


Glad you caught up.  Since the law is unfair, this article is discussing one method of changing your tax status: through non profit status.  Changing the law is a slower but more direct method.  Glad you agree with us, that if the government is insisting on taxing marijuana unfairly, marijuana growers are wise to legally operate as a non-profit if available, and to promote changes to the tax law.
 
2013-03-04 04:06:55 PM  

Lucidz: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Lucidz: If they are not doing that, then that makes the business owners bad business men.

They're not allowed to do that under the tax law. That's the point of the article.

They aren't allowed to increase the price of the product?????


it wouldn't matter, their tax code is based on NET PROFITS. no other industry works this way. And as far as pharmaceuticals not being illegal on a federal level, just come on, man. I mean really, come on. :) You're kinda missing the point of the article and shifting your debate.
 
2013-03-04 04:10:58 PM  

ShawnDoc: The Feds are going after the landlords, threatening to confiscate an entire building/complex under drug forfeiture laws.


I wonder how long Kelo would stand up if the states started eminent domaining those seized buildings and giving them back to the dispensaries -- you know, to increase tax revenue.
 
2013-03-04 04:24:43 PM  
In New Mexico, all dispenseries are non-profit 501C3 corporations.  The issue 90% of Farkers above do not understand is that normal business expenses - including salaries, leases, fuel, electricity and other "normal" expenses that every other corporation in America gets to deduct to get to "net profits" are not allowed so cannabis is taxed on Gross Revenues, which would cause most corporations to go bankrupt or to double prices!  If cannabis were legal, prices should be $25-$50 per Pound, not $10-$15 per gram or $250-$400 per ounce!
 
2013-03-04 04:30:14 PM  

Kahabut: keepitcherry: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market

Here in Northern California the "legal" prices are like double the price as the street prices for the same quality.

Where the fark do you live?  In San Francisco (commonly considered NorCal), the street prices are roughly 40-50/3.5grams.    The quality is... well, based mostly on opinion and I won't argue it.  Now, the club prices are set at 15/gram.  The quality is top notch by any standard, and it's consistent.  (this assumes you are buying buds, if you buy edibles or shake or whatever the pricing changes)

I don't know if you are just talking out your ass, or if you are getting ripped off by someone.  In either case, I think it's safe to say that you don't represent the average.


Hell you're still getting ripped off.

/SoCal, $5/g White Widow, prime.
 
2013-03-04 04:31:30 PM  

Rogue Surf: If cannabis were legal, prices should be $25-$50 per Pound


That's about what it costs me growing using LED and being smart utilizing efficient and conservative technologies.
 
2013-03-04 04:32:21 PM  

modesto: Anything medical should be non profit.


Word. Charge half a million for a new heart.

/Stiff the donor./

{ScumbagSteve.jpg}
 
2013-03-04 04:34:10 PM  

Keyser_Soze_Death: I guess no one read TFA, where it talks about a 75% federal tax being at issue.

/tax any business at 75% and it literally becomes a non-profit operation.


Here in Washington, cigarettes are taxed at 90%. There is no shortage of people selling them very profitably.
 
2013-03-04 04:35:31 PM  

Rogue Surf: In New Mexico, all dispenseries are non-profit 501C3 corporations.  The issue 90% of Farkers above do not understand is that normal business expenses - including salaries, leases, fuel, electricity and other "normal" expenses that every other corporation in America gets to deduct to get to "net profits" are not allowed so cannabis is taxed on Gross Revenues, which would cause most corporations to go bankrupt or to double prices!  If cannabis were legal, prices should be $25-$50 per Pound, not $10-$15 per gram or $250-$400 per ounce!


Maybe a word problem would help.

Joe Consumer is used to paying 100 dollars a week to pet bunnies.  There's a farm down the road with a lot of bunnies on it, and for 100 bucks, his buddy will watch the gate while he sneaks in and pets bunnies.  The government gets involved.  They let someone open a bunny petting ranch.  They can raise bunnies for 80 dollars a week, of which $40 is payroll.  The government declares that bunnies are rodents, and rabbits are a big problem in Australia, so if you raise bunnies, you have to pay luxury taxes on the product, sales taxes, pay roll taxes, real estate taxes, local taxes, city taxes, and income tax on the money, but you don't get to deduct anything on your taxes, because officially, bunnies aren't real to Americans because we don't like them.

So now you have a choice.  You can either raise bunnies, pay the 80 dollars it takes to raise them, pay all the taxes, pay taxes on your taxes (because you can't deduct your taxes against your taxes, because YOUR taxes are "from bunnies"), and pass that all on to the consumer, who chooses instead to sneak under the gate down the road, because it's 300% cheaper without government interference.

Then the federal government and ignorant people pat themselves on the back because "legalizing dispensaries didn't stop people from selling weed on the streets".
 
2013-03-04 04:41:13 PM  

Wrencher: Keyser_Soze_Death: I guess no one read TFA, where it talks about a 75% federal tax being at issue.

/tax any business at 75% and it literally becomes a non-profit operation.

Here in Washington, cigarettes are taxed at 90%. There is no shortage of people selling them very profitably.


They wouldn't be if tobacco took less time to air cure.  There's just no way to intelligently talk about this problem without admitting the biggest problem with marijuana is that if it wasn't illegal, it'd be approximately as difficult to be self sufficient with marijuana as it is to be self sufficient with tomatoes.   If you were allowed to stick a couple certified female seedlings from a local nursery into a deer proof tomato cage in your backyard, pretty much the whole country can grow weed by accident.  Some little old lady in Chicago managed to accidentally grow a bush the side of a small duplex off her back porch.  Everything difficult about marijuana cultivation stems from the need for secrecy.
 
2013-03-04 04:49:32 PM  

Mr Guy: If you were allowed to stick a couple certified female seedlings from a local nursery into a deer proof tomato cage in your backyard, pretty much the whole country can grow weed by accident. Some little old lady in Chicago managed to accidentally grow a bush the side of a small duplex off her back porch.


Growing a marijuana/hemp plant is easy, growing a high quality marijuana crop is not.  Go check out any hydroponics forum and look at all the hoops people jump through, and end up throwing away their plant and starting again.
 
2013-03-04 04:53:49 PM  

HAMMERTOE: modesto: Anything medical should be non profit.

Word. Charge half a million for a new heart.

/Stiff the donor./

{ScumbagSteve.jpg}


Missing the point entirely...there are certain things (human suffering mostly) that shouldn't be making a profit. I don't see anyway you can argue with that without completely ignoring basic morality.
 
2013-03-04 05:13:19 PM  
The Rockefellers do.

/see Eustace Mullins
 
2013-03-04 05:15:31 PM  
STATES' RIGHTS !!!!

75% tax rate with no business deductions?
PLEASE .... these people need to get better lobbyists
 
2013-03-04 05:18:14 PM  

gilgigamesh: BarkingUnicorn: Are  you serious?  Loan sharks should be allowed to deduct the cost of baseball bats?
Human traffickers should be allowed to deduct the costs of transportation?  More pertinently, heroin dealers should be allowed to deduct the cost of their product?

De-schedule MJ and this problem goes away.  You can't solve it by changing tax laws without a shiatload of undesirable consequences.

This has nothing to do with marijuana's drug classification. All you have to do is repeal this peak of the Drug War relic of a law. It serves no purpose anyway, except now to interfere with people who are abiding by their state's law.

Now if the DEA wants to go and start raiding dispensaries, that's a different issue that would require revisiting the drug classification system.


Well no, eliminating that one drug-oriented tax law won't solve the problem.  The IRS does not allow deduction of expenses for illegal activities, period.  The way out is to make MJ businesses legal, not to let every criminal enterprise write off its expenses.
 
2013-03-04 05:43:29 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: gilgigamesh: BarkingUnicorn: Are  you serious?  Loan sharks should be allowed to deduct the cost of baseball bats?
Human traffickers should be allowed to deduct the costs of transportation?  More pertinently, heroin dealers should be allowed to deduct the cost of their product?

De-schedule MJ and this problem goes away.  You can't solve it by changing tax laws without a shiatload of undesirable consequences.

This has nothing to do with marijuana's drug classification. All you have to do is repeal this peak of the Drug War relic of a law. It serves no purpose anyway, except now to interfere with people who are abiding by their state's law.

Now if the DEA wants to go and start raiding dispensaries, that's a different issue that would require revisiting the drug classification system.

Well no, eliminating that one drug-oriented tax law won't solve the problem.  The IRS does not allow deduction of expenses for illegal activities, period.  The way out is to make MJ businesses legal, not to let every criminal enterprise write off its expenses.


Actually, as divx88 pointed out upthread, it is indeed legal to deduct expenses incurred while running your business, even if that business is illegal. So sayeth SCOTUS in Commissioner v Tellier, where the Supreme Robewearers of the Land said the purpose of the tax law was to tax net income, not punish unlawful behavior. The major problem with 280E is that it says it is NOT legal to do so as it is written to specifically address only one kind of illegal behavior on the federal level, even though it is now legal behavior at the state level.

Apparently the Supreme Dudes and Dudettes, if any 280E litigation makes it to them, are going to have to smack some hands and point to the Commissioner v Tellier ruling that SCOTUS already made.
 
2013-03-04 05:53:14 PM  

Lucidz: TreehouseEngineer: Holy crap, did nobody RTFA? It's not about paying taxes, it's about controlled substance federal tax laws not allowing operating expenses to be deducted from gross income. The rest of the country pays taxes on net profit, but the MMJ industry is required to pay taxes on GROSS profits. This could result in the tax bill being higher than your net profit. Simply outrageous.

Additionally, to address other comments: Yes, it's a weed. And yes, getting it to grow and flower to produce  personal quantity of decent product is easy. But getting efficiently growing commercial quantities of GREAT product is NOT easy, or more correctly, is not cheap. If you can't subtract your costs for space, power, and labor from your gross profits due to some heavy-handed, and out-dated federal tax code, it will not be a for-profit business.

This is not about paying taxes, it is about being able to operate a profitable business.

/Farking, fark..

All I can hear is "WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH".  You don't want to get into an unprofitable business, don't start a weed business.  FFS, in California, the SELLERS (even the ass bags who pay no taxes) are now complaining that there is a glut of high quality weed available which has driven the cost of 1lb of good outdoor grown pot to $1200 or lower.  They're complaining because in this economy, too many people realized they can move to North Cali, rent some land (to hell with power, etc) and grow plenty of plants to sell (again, paying NO taxes, income or sales).

Seriously. NEVER HAPPY!!!

Sellers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! We can't deduct some things like every other business even though we're selling an illicit (at federal level) drug!
Sellers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! We're not making as much money because there's too many other dealers now!  There's too much pot out there!
Buyers: WAAAAAAAAAH!!! I never had to pay taxes when I bought it from Jethro, 50 miles away in the country! This is BS!!!


It's easy to fill a page with nonsense when you don't understand tax code.
 
2013-03-04 06:00:09 PM  

Kahabut: keepitcherry: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market

Here in Northern California the "legal" prices are like double the price as the street prices for the same quality.

Where the fark do you live?  In San Francisco (commonly considered NorCal), the street prices are roughly 40-50/3.5grams.    The quality is... well, based mostly on opinion and I won't argue it.  Now, the club prices are set at 15/gram.  The quality is top notch by any standard, and it's consistent.  (this assumes you are buying buds, if you buy edibles or shake or whatever the pricing changes)

I don't know if you are just talking out your ass, or if you are getting ripped off by someone.  In either case, I think it's safe to say that you don't represent the average.


What in the fark are you talking about? I live in Stockton , CA and lived in SF for 5 years. The clubs I've been to charge $60+ for an eighth. (Harborside in Oakland can easily get over 60 including taxes, CMC in SF used to be expensive as fark too). If the street dealers are charging you 40-50 for an eighth then you, my friend are the one getting ripped off. I can get the same quality here on the streets in Stockton for 60 a quarter. Hence my original comment that clubs are charging double for the same product. Either way I don't give a fark. I grow my own connoisseur grade cannabis and don't allow myself to be ripped off by either the street dealers or the shady ass dispensary owners. But hey if you like paying $60 an eighth, I've got some bomb ass Kandy Kush I'll sell to you cheaper, sucker.
 
2013-03-04 06:09:10 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: The IRS does not allow deduction of expenses for illegal activities, period.


Hey yeah. That's a good point. Even as a 501(c) company, they aren't going to be able to claim deductions that would get them to zero profit, because the IRS would still deny all their deductions.

Hm. Head scratcher. The alleged tax expert in TFA seemed to think it was a good idea, so maybe I am missing something. Or maybe he was stoned at the time.
 
2013-03-04 06:09:14 PM  
users are losers and losers are users
so don't use drugs
DOOOOON'T use drugs!!
 
2013-03-04 06:41:56 PM  

Sgygus: FloydA:  If enough people agree that the tax code should be changed, those candidates will win and those policies will be enacted.

That sounds good in theory, but it never works that way in real life.   Colorado has legalized marijuana because ... our state representatives followed the will of the people and passed a legalization law?  Hell no.  It was legalized through a referendum, a direct vote of the people on the issue.  If left to our politicians, there would be no movement on this issue.

If you think elected officials represent voters, you are naive.


Really?  Sounds to me like the system worked just fine.  Enough people agreed that marijuana should be legal, the will of the people of Colorado was that it should be legal, and a referendum and direct vote of the people made it legal.  In other words, enough people agreed that the law needed to be changed, so it was changed.

How does that conflict with what I said, in your opinion?


Mr Guy: FloydA: So change the law. If the federal tax code is written in a way that seems unfair to you, advocate for re-writing it and support candidates who consider that a priority. If enough people agree that the tax code should be changed, those candidates will win and those policies will be enacted.

Glad you caught up.  Since the law is unfair, this article is discussing one method of changing your tax status: through non profit status.  Changing the law is a slower but more direct method.  Glad you agree with us, that if the government is insisting on taxing marijuana unfairly, marijuana growers are wise to legally operate as a non-profit if available, and to promote changes to the tax law.


I am in absolutely full agreement that the law should be changed.  Personally, I support full legalization and removal of marijuana from the CSA.  I am just also in favor of people paying their way.

Right now, in my home state of Washington (where recreational use is now legal, in part because I campaigned and voted for it), we are a little bit worried that some marijuana sales are going to be taxed like liquor is, and other marijuana sales are going to be tax free because of the 501(c) exemption.  That difference between taxation on "recreational" sale and no tax on "medical" sales is almost guaranteed to create a black market.  I would prefer that all sales are legal and all taxed, so that everyone in the state benefits, rather than that some sales are taxed and other sales funnel money into organized crime, so that only a few benefit.  We've seen how that works out with alcohol prohibition; I don't think that's a good direction to go.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand.  A lot of people have been listening to GOP propaganda for their whole life, and they've internalized the "Taxes are bad" message, and automatically oppose any sort of tax at all, even when they would personally benefit from it.  I get it; paying taxes sucks; I really wish that I could get all of the benefits of living in a complex civilization for free, that would be awesome.  But the fact is, "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch." My mom isn't going to spoon feed me any more.  If we want the benefits of living in a civilized society, we have to be willing to pay for them.  Nobody is going to give us the perks without collecting some payment.  The "Baby Boom" generation were handed everything they ever wanted, and now that the bills are due, the "tea party" people want to get someone else to pay them, and really, that just ain't going to work.  You want to take the ride?  Fine, buy the ticket.  If you won't pay the cost of the ticket, you can't go on the ride.  It's that simple.
 
2013-03-04 06:42:37 PM  

gilgigamesh: FloydA: hasty ambush: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7624877/82848582#c82848582" target="_blank">FloydA</a>:</b> <i>Taxes are the entry fee that you pay in order to be allowed to participate in civilization. Pay up or get out.</i>

And of course that "fee" is never excessive or used as means to control behavior or destroy and activity.

More power to anybody who can legally lower his tax burden.


Get out of my country then.

Seriously, if paying for the privilege of living in a civilized society is too much of a "burden" for you, then get the hell out.  Go Galt, live in a Randian tax-free paradise, and more power to you.  I wish you the best of luck.  But stop using all of the benefits of civilization if you aren't willing to pay the costs.  You can't have your ice cream unless you finish your veggies.

I have to ask: do you take marital, mortgage interest, child or any other legal deductions when you file? Or do you just say, "F*ck that. Deductions are for whusses" and pay the straight up percentage for your tax bracket?

Because if its the former, you may be a hypocrite.


He is as big a hypocrite as those rich peopel who think they should pay mroe taxes but don't (ie Warren Buffet).


Taxation does not mean you have a civilized society. Plenty of uncivilized societies throughout history have imposed a "tax" on its subjects.

"That the power to tax involves the power to destroy; that the power to destroy may defeat and render useless the power to create"  Chief Justice John Marshall- McCulloch v. Maryland

"An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy," Daniel Webster 17 U.S. 327 (1819)
 
2013-03-04 06:42:42 PM  

ReverendJynxed: umad: FloydA: headslacker: FloydA. You're an idiot.

Thank you for your eloquent, well-supported, and well thought out refutation of my point.  I find it very convincing of something.

Any response with more complexity would have just confused you. He was just taking your mental disability into account.

Smaller words bro. I think you just broke him.


i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-04 06:59:36 PM  

Mr Guy: Wrencher: Keyser_Soze_Death: I guess no one read TFA, where it talks about a 75% federal tax being at issue.

/tax any business at 75% and it literally becomes a non-profit operation.

Here in Washington, cigarettes are taxed at 90%. There is no shortage of people selling them very profitably.

They wouldn't be if tobacco took less time to air cure.  There's just no way to intelligently talk about this problem without admitting the biggest problem with marijuana is that if it wasn't illegal, it'd be approximately as difficult to be self sufficient with marijuana as it is to be self sufficient with tomatoes.   If you were allowed to stick a couple certified female seedlings from a local nursery into a deer proof tomato cage in your backyard, pretty much the whole country can grow weed by accident.  Some little old lady in Chicago managed to accidentally grow a bush the side of a small duplex off her back porch.  Everything difficult about marijuana cultivation stems from the need for secrecy.


Tobacco is difficult to grow here too. It likes to be warmer.
I voted to legalise cannabis here, and happy it passed. It's a good first step. My point was that even with high ;) tax, it will sell like hotcakes.
 
2013-03-04 07:02:12 PM  
if you know a user even part of the timeeee
tell him to QUIT take a BITE OUT OF CRIME!!!

t0.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-04 07:08:39 PM  

Kahabut: keepitcherry: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Considering the "legal" prices are the same as the street prices, I'd say someone is making a profit whether they're reporting it or not

/someone needs to investigate price fixing in the market

Here in Northern California the "legal" prices are like double the price as the street prices for the same quality.

Where the fark do you live?  In San Francisco (commonly considered NorCal), the street prices are roughly 40-50/3.5grams.    The quality is... well, based mostly on opinion and I won't argue it.  Now, the club prices are set at 15/gram.  The quality is top notch by any standard, and it's consistent.  (this assumes you are buying buds, if you buy edibles or shake or whatever the pricing changes)

I don't know if you are just talking out your ass, or if you are getting ripped off by someone.  In either case, I think it's safe to say that you don't represent the average.


he is probably stating the opposite. In northern california (sacramento and north), pot is generally $10-$25/3.5g through private channels b/c 'everyone and their grandma grows it' -- so in many cases you are supplied directly by the grower--this becomes increasingly the case the further north you get. In my experience, the same quality cannabis can be obtained from a grower for anywhere from 0% to 50% of the cost it could be obtained from a club--quality, strain-specific demand, and the proximity of your relationship to your supplier all factor into this calculation. Also, the term 'street price' is insignificant when regarding cannabis QPR (quality-price ratio) performance, because it includes two categories that generally perform on opposite ends of the spectrum: (1) pot obtained from unknown sources that spans a wide, unpredictable range of quality and price; (2) pot obtained through established (or preferred) channels.
 
2013-03-04 07:26:04 PM  

FloydA: If enough people agree that the tax code should be changed, those candidates will win and those policies will be enacted.

FloydA:

 How does that conflict with what I said, in your opinion?

The conflict is with your belief in elected representatives.  The two states that have legalized cannabis only did so by by-passing our representatives through use of constitutional amendments.  It is mainly some western states that allow such direct votes.  The rest of you ... good luck.
 
2013-03-04 07:47:55 PM  

Wrencher: My point was that even with high ;) tax, it will sell like hotcakes.


Not when you are competing against an existing thriving black market they won't. The federal government is explicitly making it impossible for a legal dispensary to be profitable. And that is only when they aren't confiscating it all and tossing your ass in prison anyway.
 
2013-03-04 07:50:33 PM  

Sgygus: FloydA: If enough people agree that the tax code should be changed, those candidates will win and those policies will be enacted.

FloydA: How does that conflict with what I said, in your opinion?

The conflict is with your belief in elected representatives.  The two states that have legalized cannabis only did so by by-passing our representatives through use of constitutional amendments.  It is mainly some western states that allow such direct votes.  The rest of you ... good luck.


I live in one of those states; I can legally smoke pot if I want to.  If your point is "the people I voted for don't do what I want them to do," then I agree.  If your point is "nobody in my state has put up the effort to make legalization happen" then I agree with that as well.  Get off your ass and make it happen in your state; stop waiting around for someone else to do it for you.  I campaigned to make marijuana legal in my state (even though I don't care for it myself), Now I can smoke it whenever I want to, and so can my neighbors.

People in other states have not bothered to put up the effort, but they seem to have enough energy to complain that nobody has done it for them.

Seriously, if there is one theme running through all my posts in this thread, it is this: "stop expecting someone else to fix everything for you."  If you want legal pot, work for it.  If you want to avoid taxes, stop using the benefits.  Just, seriously, honestly, grow the fark up, people, and start taking some responsibility for your lives! Stop whining and asking someone else to fix everything.  I'm not your mom!
 
2013-03-04 08:18:17 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Actually, as divx88 pointed out upthread, it is indeed legal to deduct expenses incurred while running your business, even if that business is illegal. So sayeth SCOTUS in Commissioner v Tellier, where the Supreme Robewearers of the Land said the purpose of the tax law was to tax net income, not punish unlawful behavior. The major problem with 280E is that it says it is NOT legal to do so as it is written to specifically address only one kind of illegal behavior on the federal level, even though it is now legal behavior at the state level.

Apparently the Supreme Dudes and Dudettes, if any 280E litigation makes it to them, are going to have to smack some hands and point to the Commissioner v Tellier ruling that SCOTUS already made.


Interesting.  I was unaware of that ruling.   However, it is not a blanket prohibition of using the tax code to punish illegal activity.  The Court said that if there is to be such a punishment, it must originate in Congress and not the IRS.  Section 280E was enacted by Congress.

It seems unlikely that Congress will keep the prohibition on marijuana while making it easier to profit by selling it.  Section 280E is not going anywhere before MJ is legalized by the feds.
 
2013-03-04 08:34:22 PM  

gilgigamesh: BarkingUnicorn: The IRS does not allow deduction of expenses for illegal activities, period.

Hey yeah. That's a good point. Even as a 501(c) company, they aren't going to be able to claim deductions that would get them to zero profit, because the IRS would still deny all their deductions.

Hm. Head scratcher. The alleged tax expert in TFA seemed to think it was a good idea, so maybe I am missing something. Or maybe he was stoned at the time.


His idea is shot down in the comments:

In Rev Ruling 75-384, the IRS ruled that "illegal activities, which violate the minimum standards of acceptable conduct necessary for the preservation of an orderly society, are contrary to the common good and the general welfare of the people in a community and thus are not permissible means of promoting the social welfare for purposes of section 501(c)(4) of the Code."

Some people are parsing that sentence to mean that illegal activities must "violate the minimum standards of acceptable conduct..." of the community being served in order to be grounds for denying nonprofit status. "If the community accepts an illegal activity, it's OK."  I'd love to see a welfare fraud ring try to get non-profit status on that basis.
 
2013-03-04 08:38:09 PM  

WeenerGord: TheJoe03: vudukungfu: LOLWhut?

The War on Drugs and the massive spike in incarceration rates (both done after the Civil Rights Movement) are considered to be based in institutionally racist policies. For example, white people use and sell drugs at about the same rate as as blacks and Latinos but the incarceration rates for those things are not even close to equal.


Wrong, fool. It was made illegal by the influence of DuPont which wanted to replace hemp rope, used in all ships, with it's new synthetic rope made of dacron fiber. This was tremendously profitable for DuPont as WWII was on the horizon. Then when it was discovered that Dacron stretched in seawater, Hemp For Victory was quickly pushed in the farmers till right after the war then it was back to fark you again.

And Nixon ramped up the drug war, after numerous studies, and testifying to Congress, by the American Medical Association, saying it was harmless, beneficial and should be legal, to get the Vietnam anti-war protesters off his lawn. Both times, pot was criminalized for the benefit of war profiteering.

Whites want legal pot as much as anybody else so take your racism and shove it.


We agree yet you're being a coont about it, learn how to comprehend posts before saying dumb shiat, nothing I said was racist.
 
2013-03-04 08:39:42 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Real Women Drink Akvavit: Actually, as divx88 pointed out upthread, it is indeed legal to deduct expenses incurred while running your business, even if that business is illegal. So sayeth SCOTUS in Commissioner v Tellier, where the Supreme Robewearers of the Land said the purpose of the tax law was to tax net income, not punish unlawful behavior. The major problem with 280E is that it says it is NOT legal to do so as it is written to specifically address only one kind of illegal behavior on the federal level, even though it is now legal behavior at the state level.

Apparently the Supreme Dudes and Dudettes, if any 280E litigation makes it to them, are going to have to smack some hands and point to the Commissioner v Tellier ruling that SCOTUS already made.

Interesting.  I was unaware of that ruling.   However, it is not a blanket prohibition of using the tax code to punish illegal activity.  The Court said that if there is to be such a punishment, it must originate in Congress and not the IRS.  Section 280E was enacted by Congress.

It seems unlikely that Congress will keep the prohibition on marijuana while making it easier to profit by selling it.  Section 280E is not going anywhere before MJ is legalized by the feds.


I wouldn't be surprised to see it in front of the Supreme Court in the not too distant future, really. When California gets really agnsty about stuff, well, we tend to put down the tofu burger and wheat grass smoothie and throw tantrums. These tantrums tend to involve the courts. It's kind of the way we are here. Taxing our legal dispensaries right out of existence because they simply cannot afford the taxes and the fees they have to pay to be legal in the first place isn't going to go over too well. The states will argue that SCOTUS never said anything about something that is legal under state law and the feds will argue that it is still "illegal trafficking". So I guess they will have no choice but to revisit the issue, especially now that other states are running with the "blaze me, dudes" thing.

/not a smoker, btw
 
2013-03-04 08:42:56 PM  

FloydA: stop expecting someone else to fix everything for you


For this I applaud you, FloydA.
 
2013-03-04 08:54:53 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: I wouldn't be surprised to see it in front of the Supreme Court in the not too distant future, really. When California gets really agnsty about stuff, well, we tend to put down the tofu burger and wheat grass smoothie and throw tantrums. These tantrums tend to involve the courts. It's kind of the way we are here. Taxing our legal dispensaries right out of existence because they simply cannot afford the taxes and the fees they have to pay to be legal in the first place isn't going to go over too well. The states will argue that SCOTUS never said anything about something that is legal under state law and the feds will argue that it is still "illegal trafficking". So I guess they will have no choice but to revisit the issue, especially now that other states are running with the "blaze me, dudes" thing.


I expect the SCOTUS to refuse to be drawn into this turf war.  Hasn't MJ already been ruled to  fall under the Interstate Commerce Clause?  They're not gonna do that whole whole "locally grown and used" thing again.  Interstate pot tourism is too easily proven.

A Congressional act is the only way it's gonna get resolved.
 
2013-03-04 09:13:03 PM  
honest question -- whats to prevent WA or CO from putting a measure on the ballot to recriminalize MJ?

seeing how they both passed with slim margins
 
2013-03-04 09:28:29 PM  

thisiszombocom: honest question -- whats to prevent WA or CO from putting a measure on the ballot to recriminalize MJ? seeing how they both passed with slim margins


Nothing ... except time energy and money.  Colorado passed amendment 65 by a 54.8% to 45.1% margin.  Hardly close at all.
 
2013-03-04 09:31:06 PM  

umad: Wrencher: My point was that even with high ;) tax, it will sell like hotcakes.

Not when you are competing against an existing thriving black market they won't. The federal government is explicitly making it impossible for a legal dispensary to be profitable. And that is only when they aren't confiscating it all and tossing your ass in prison anyway.


When the existing black market is not trustworthy, many people will pay a premium price to know their bud is not sprinkled with Meth.
The Washington State Liquor Control Board still has 10 months to iron out the details for regulations and quality controls. It remains to be seen how the Feds will react, and if they will be true to their word. There are many thriving medical dispensaries here already that the Feds have so far , left alone. I'm not sure how they have been handling their taxes, but the ones I know of have been at least moderately profitable.
 
2013-03-04 09:47:51 PM  
TheJoe03: We agree yet you're being a coont about it, learn how to comprehend posts before saying dumb shiat, nothing I said was racist.


We agree that you are a coont for being a racist and playing the race card, yes. I'd tell you to learn to comprehend but I understand that you cannot.

If you had a brain you would understand that the powers that be have got you worked up to deflect your attention from who is really oppressing you. Dumbass.
 
2013-03-04 10:05:35 PM  

WeenerGord: We agree that you are a coont for being a racist and playing the race card, yes. I'd tell you to learn to comprehend but I understand that you cannot.

If you had a brain you would understand that the powers that be have got you worked up to deflect your attention from who is really oppressing you. Dumbass.


Seriously, do you know how asinine you sound? What did I say that was racist? Quote it, you sound clueless. Do you even understand what "institutional" means? Also, why can you say the original 30s laws were racist, but I can't say the fact that police go primarily after poor minorities when it comes to drugs despite all races having similar drug use and selling rates? You just going to call me names without backing up any of your points? You sound like you are arguing with someone else because you seemed to misunderstand what I actually said. Sucks to be you, homie.
 
2013-03-04 10:11:14 PM  
Actually you didn't realize that the original push for criminalization was partly due to racism. You are just someone that doesn't understand how our nation (especially in that era) promoted institutional racism. You'd be blind to argue that, just a read a history book. You seem to see that as an attack on you and your whiteness, when all I'm doing is pointing out that our government crafted some of these policies out of racism. Enjoy living in your bubble, because we all know that our government has always treated white people just like everyone else, and anyone that points that out is obviously just a racist.
 
2013-03-04 10:14:02 PM  

Wrencher: When the existing black market is not trustworthy, many people will pay a premium price to know their bud is not sprinkled with Meth.


This is so absurd I'm not even sure how to reply.
 
2013-03-04 11:15:46 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: until the fed recognizes marijuana as legal and allows businesses to deduct normal business expenses the MM sector should do what ever it can to minimize it's tax burden.


In fact, the Feds should crack down on legal tax paying storefronts. Growing is still legal. Let the Feds cut off their nose to spite their face and leave those dollars on the table. What if weed was legal and the government didn't profit? I'd rather the funds go to schools, mental health, etc, but in the end.... You can't stop the signal... best take your cut.
 
2013-03-05 12:42:07 AM  

umad: Wrencher: When the existing black market is not trustworthy, many people will pay a premium price to know their bud is not sprinkled with Meth.

This is so absurd I'm not even sure how to reply.


OK, so many people will pay a premium price to believe....

Trust is the belief that you can predict another person's behavior with an acceptable degree of confidence.
 
2013-03-05 01:20:50 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: umad: Wrencher: When the existing black market is not trustworthy, many people will pay a premium price to know their bud is not sprinkled with Meth.

This is so absurd I'm not even sure how to reply.

OK, so many people will pay a premium price to believe....

Trust is the belief that you can predict another person's behavior with an acceptable degree of confidence.


bud sprinkled with meth, now half off [your rocker].That ain't 'appenin', any more than you get 87 octane with some accidental jet-a in it. people notice these things.
 
2013-03-05 02:11:16 AM  

TheJoe03: You just going to call me names


I called you the same name you called me, and you are throwing a tantrum????  HAHA!

www.reactiongifs.com
 
2013-03-05 02:15:11 AM  

WeenerGord: I called you the same name you called me, and you are throwing a tantrum????  HAHA!


Well I called you one name, but I actually did try to back up what I was saying. You can call me names, but if that's all you're doing then the discussion is pointless. Which at this point is self evident.
 
2013-03-05 02:24:06 AM  

TheJoe03: WeenerGord: I called you the same name you called me, and you are throwing a tantrum????  HAHA!

Well I called you one name, but I actually did try to back up what I was saying. You can call me names, but if that's all you're doing then the discussion is pointless. Which at this point is self evident.


No, you whined and cried and tried to make out like a farking drug war that ruins everyone's life, is all about you, because race. You played the race card. If you ever grow up, maybe you'll realize that life is hard for everybody. Like Floyd said, he's not your mommy. Act right and stop blaming others for all your troubles instead of making new enemies with your blame game race card.
 
2013-03-05 02:40:30 AM  

WeenerGord: No, you whined and cried and tried to make out like a farking drug war that ruins everyone's life, is all about you, because race. You played the race card. If you ever grow up, maybe you'll realize that life is hard for everybody. Like Floyd said, he's not your mommy. Act right and stop blaming others for all your troubles instead of making new enemies with your blame game race card.


I wasn't playing the race card, I was responding to a poster that was wondering why another poster brought racism into the discussion. Are we not allowed to talk about that topic or something?
 
2013-03-05 02:59:36 AM  

LookForTheArrow: BarkingUnicorn: umad: Wrencher: When the existing black market is not trustworthy, many people will pay a premium price to know their bud is not sprinkled with Meth.

This is so absurd I'm not even sure how to reply.

OK, so many people will pay a premium price to believe....

Trust is the belief that you can predict another person's behavior with an acceptable degree of confidence.

bud sprinkled with meth, now half off [your rocker].That ain't 'appenin', any more than you get 87 octane with some accidental jet-a in it. people notice these things.


Thanks.  I'm blissfully ignorant of such things.
 
2013-03-07 01:52:31 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: LookForTheArrow: BarkingUnicorn: umad: Wrencher: When the existing black market is not trustworthy, many people will pay a premium price to know their bud is not sprinkled with Meth.

This is so absurd I'm not even sure how to reply.

OK, so many people will pay a premium price to believe....

Trust is the belief that you can predict another person's behavior with an acceptable degree of confidence.

bud sprinkled with meth, now half off [your rocker].That ain't 'appenin', any more than you get 87 octane with some accidental jet-a in it. people notice these things.

Thanks.  I'm blissfully ignorant of such things.


as spock might say, being blissfully unaware, however comforting, is not logical.
 
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