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(The Week)   Short answer: No. Slightly longer answer: Hide behind proxies   (theweek.com) divider line 144
    More: Stupid, Copyright Alert System, Napster, illegal downloading, illegal downloads, Hayden Manders, RIAA  
•       •       •

8418 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Mar 2013 at 1:45 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 03:46:18 PM  
as you cut down my speed i will cut down my payment
at that time i am paying for what i get
this will continue until we both hit 0
i may not have the internet but you have no income
lets see who cares more
 
Ant
2013-03-04 03:50:59 PM  

fo_sho!: Ant: Hey Showtime,

Your cable channel sucks. I don't want it. Let me buy Dexter in individual episodes.

Hey Ant,

Buy the DVD.


You have to wait for a freaking year!
 
2013-03-04 03:51:07 PM  
I canceled the news boards subscription because everything is getting taken down as soon as it goes up. VPN is now my friend.
 
Ant
2013-03-04 03:54:21 PM  

cman: Ant: cman: Ant: Hey Showtime,

Your cable channel sucks. I don't want it. Let me buy Dexter in individual episodes.

iTunes? Amazon Instant Video?

I believe Showtime sells their shows individually on those services.

Do they really? Even the current season?

No. I do see your point in that. However, Showtime made the show. They spent a large amount of cash on doing this. Do you not believe that one should be rewarded with financial renumeration for work? Is it really too much to wait for the DVD/iTunes release?


I would reward them with financial remuneration if they'd sell me the shows from the current season. Are they seriously trying to say they couldn't make money off $5 per episode rental fee from tens of thousands of viewers?
 
2013-03-04 03:55:24 PM  

stonicus: Nexzus: stonicus: Nexzus: skantea: What about using Https?  The 'S' being the operative letter.

/looking forward to some juicy tips

The 'S' will just encrypt the actual content. Your ISP still knows that you downloaded from the address https://www.beemp3.com/somesong.mp3

And most standard BitTorrent clients will still show who you're connected to, and who's connected to you.

Bittorrent itself isn't illegal.  How will they know what I am downloading besides looking at the filename?  Rename "cool_new_song_I_don't_want_to_pay_for.mp3" to "pictures_of_lol_cats.zip", and voila!

There's still the tracker. The tracker knows the (alleged) filename and who is currently seeding and leeching the file. Whether you rename it is irrelevant.

But you have plausible deniability... "I thought it was cat pictures".  Criminal intent is destroyed.


Except it doesn't work off filename. It works like this...

-- you're on Pirate Bay, see The Hobbit: An Underwhelming Journey, and you start downloading -- but you save it as "lol catz.rar" because you're wiley.
-- the MPAA also sees that torrent available. It starts downloading.
-- it looks in its torrent client to see which IPs are on the swarm. It jots them down on the back of their contract with Satan.
-- it looks up the IPs, notifies their ISPs, who sends you a digital finger-wagging.

So what you've saved the file as is irrelevant. They find you because you're on the swarm.

What's the total list of "associations" involved in this? Just MPAA and RIAA? Because if so, I think most of the private trackers will stay on the DL, and the porn guys are probably breathing easier (well, heavier, which is what they're after) since I don't think there's a porn --AA that can join this party.
 
2013-03-04 03:58:16 PM  
Who needs your copyrighted material? Open Source/GNU/Creative Commons/Public Domain are gaining so much ground you really don't even need to pirate anymore. While Big Digital tries to keep you only on their dimension of their product or elsewhere, a smart person can get all of the functionality of programs in easy-to-use, free projects. Now where you must stay on their dimension, because a label contains and artist/band you love, that's the fault of the artist. If you're resourceful, you can gain the ability to record, mix, master, create hard copies, and publicize for little to no cost compared to the record label giants. Hell, if you're really into low-lost production you can get a raspberry pi running ubuntu and connect it to a removable hard drive. Suffice it to say, if you are willing to learn and adapt, you can produce things for fractions or almost none of the cost.
 
2013-03-04 04:00:39 PM  

encyclopediaplushuman: Who needs your copyrighted material? Open Source/GNU/Creative Commons/Public Domain are gaining so much ground you really don't even need to pirate anymore.


Who needs copyrighted material when you have... copyrighted material? WTF?
 
2013-03-04 04:00:55 PM  

Ant: cman: Ant: cman: Ant: Hey Showtime,

Your cable channel sucks. I don't want it. Let me buy Dexter in individual episodes.

iTunes? Amazon Instant Video?

I believe Showtime sells their shows individually on those services.

Do they really? Even the current season?

No. I do see your point in that. However, Showtime made the show. They spent a large amount of cash on doing this. Do you not believe that one should be rewarded with financial renumeration for work? Is it really too much to wait for the DVD/iTunes release?

I would reward them with financial remuneration if they'd sell me the shows from the current season. Are they seriously trying to say they couldn't make money off $5 per episode rental fee from tens of thousands of viewers?


Most likely it is a marketing strategy. I have noticed this with a few other shows.

Person of Interest, for example, is being held back by CBS purposely to drum up interest in selling DVD's. They dont release it on iTunes. They dont release it on Amazon. Hell, Time Warner Cable doesnt even have it on CBS on Demand.

Its their content. Shouldn't they have a say on how their content is distributed?
 
2013-03-04 04:01:35 PM  
TOR project

/google it.
 
2013-03-04 04:02:33 PM  

hamsack: TOR project

/google it.


Oh they are gonna LOVE you if you download torrents via TOR
 
2013-03-04 04:03:09 PM  

cman: hamsack: TOR project

/google it.

Oh Tor users are gonna LOVE you if you download torrents via TOR


My bad. Fixt
 
2013-03-04 04:03:14 PM  

encyclopediaplushuman: Who needs your copyrighted material? Open Source/GNU/Creative Commons/Public Domain are gaining so much ground you really don't even need to pirate anymore. While Big Digital tries to keep you only on their dimension of their product or elsewhere, a smart person can get all of the functionality of programs in easy-to-use, free projects.


How do the open-source 1080 rips of Game of Thrones rips compare to the HBO ones?

/hell of a lot more than the occasional app we're talking about
//And Gimp still isn't as good as Photoshop
 
2013-03-04 04:19:48 PM  

hamsack: TOR project

/google it.


it only took me 3 weeks to download that Justin Bieber album i've been wanting!

what, Mr. Federal Officer Sir? I don't know anything about any child pornography. if any such thing happened to exist on my computer it's only because of the network i use to download Justin Bieber albums. (which is true, but won't hold up in court.).
 
2013-03-04 04:22:55 PM  

hamsack: TOR project

/google it.


If you bothered to Google it, you'd find this page.
 
2013-03-04 04:31:24 PM  
Even if this works, it will be self defeating.  It's this kind of thing that will get regular people pissed off enough and in large enough numbers to insist on breaking local monopolies.  Even if that didn't happen, what will happen is the inevitable growth of darknet, which cannot be controlled.
 
2013-03-04 04:35:57 PM  

MrEricSir: Nexzus: skantea: What about using Https?  The 'S' being the operative letter.

/looking forward to some juicy tips

The 'S' will just encrypt the actual content. Your ISP still knows that you downloaded from the address https://www.beemp3.com/somesong.mp3

Um, no. I'm afraid you just flunked web 101.

Your ISP (and everyone in between) knows that you made a request to beemp3.com, but the HTTPS request itself is encrypted. This is trivial to verify, by the way. Just pull up Wireshark and see for yourself.


Unless I'm greatly mistaken (and I have to admit to not having read the RFC), your ISP knows that you made a request to 213.174.140.114 , which has no reverse DNS record and could be anything.  Which host you are looking for at that IP is not known.

/Though they could probably make an educated guess if you did a DNS query for www.beemp3.com immediately prior.
 
2013-03-04 04:38:23 PM  

Scrotastic Method: stonicus: Nexzus: stonicus: Nexzus: skantea: What about using Https?  The 'S' being the operative letter.

/looking forward to some juicy tips

The 'S' will just encrypt the actual content. Your ISP still knows that you downloaded from the address https://www.beemp3.com/somesong.mp3

And most standard BitTorrent clients will still show who you're connected to, and who's connected to you.

Bittorrent itself isn't illegal.  How will they know what I am downloading besides looking at the filename?  Rename "cool_new_song_I_don't_want_to_pay_for.mp3" to "pictures_of_lol_cats.zip", and voila!

There's still the tracker. The tracker knows the (alleged) filename and who is currently seeding and leeching the file. Whether you rename it is irrelevant.

But you have plausible deniability... "I thought it was cat pictures".  Criminal intent is destroyed.

Except it doesn't work off filename. It works like this...

-- you're on Pirate Bay, see The Hobbit: An Underwhelming Journey, and you start downloading -- but you save it as "lol catz.rar" because you're wiley.
-- the MPAA also sees that torrent available. It starts downloading.
-- it looks in its torrent client to see which IPs are on the swarm. It jots them down on the back of their contract with Satan.
-- it looks up the IPs, notifies their ISPs, who sends you a digital finger-wagging.

So what you've saved the file as is irrelevant. They find you because you're on the swarm.

What's the total list of "associations" involved in this? Just MPAA and RIAA? Because if so, I think most of the private trackers will stay on the DL, and the porn guys are probably breathing easier (well, heavier, which is what they're after) since I don't think there's a porn --AA that can join this party.


I meant the name on the tracker, not what I save it as locally.  The only initial metric they have to judge legality of torrents on is the filename.  A movie can be shown on the torrent sites as "newawesomemovieTRAILER.avi", when in fact it is the full movie.  Downloading a trailer isn't illegal.


 
2013-03-04 04:41:53 PM  

stonicus: Downloading a trailer isn't illegal.


Um...
 
2013-03-04 04:56:53 PM  

stonicus: Scrotastic Method: stonicus: Nexzus: stonicus: Nexzus: skantea: What about using Https?  The 'S' being the operative letter.

/looking forward to some juicy tips

The 'S' will just encrypt the actual content. Your ISP still knows that you downloaded from the address https://www.beemp3.com/somesong.mp3

And most standard BitTorrent clients will still show who you're connected to, and who's connected to you.

Bittorrent itself isn't illegal.  How will they know what I am downloading besides looking at the filename?  Rename "cool_new_song_I_don't_want_to_pay_for.mp3" to "pictures_of_lol_cats.zip", and voila!

There's still the tracker. The tracker knows the (alleged) filename and who is currently seeding and leeching the file. Whether you rename it is irrelevant.

But you have plausible deniability... "I thought it was cat pictures".  Criminal intent is destroyed.

Except it doesn't work off filename. It works like this...

-- you're on Pirate Bay, see The Hobbit: An Underwhelming Journey, and you start downloading -- but you save it as "lol catz.rar" because you're wiley.
-- the MPAA also sees that torrent available. It starts downloading.
-- it looks in its torrent client to see which IPs are on the swarm. It jots them down on the back of their contract with Satan.
-- it looks up the IPs, notifies their ISPs, who sends you a digital finger-wagging.

So what you've saved the file as is irrelevant. They find you because you're on the swarm.

What's the total list of "associations" involved in this? Just MPAA and RIAA? Because if so, I think most of the private trackers will stay on the DL, and the porn guys are probably breathing easier (well, heavier, which is what they're after) since I don't think there's a porn --AA that can join this party.

I meant the name on the tracker, not what I save it as locally.  The only initial metric they have to judge legality of torrents on is the filename.  A movie can be shown on the torrent sites as "newawesomemovieTRAILER.avi", w ...


Couple things. Last I checked many torrents come with multiple trackers, they aren't all going to be deceptively labeled. The downloader also doesn't determine what the tracker names the file, the uploader or site that it's uploaded to does. I'm also pretty sure the companies that roam torrents for copyrighted material for lawsuit ammo are capable of noticing when the file size for that so called trailer is large enough for the entire movie. Not to mention part of what the companies that are hired to find illegal downloaders do is sample the file being downloaded.

/only mildly torrent savvy. I could be wrong on several points.
 
2013-03-04 04:57:41 PM  

hamsack: TOR project

cman: Oh Tor users are gonna LOVE you if you download torrents via TOR

the801: it only took me 3 weeks to download that Justin Bieber album i've been wanting!

MrEricSir: If you bothered to Google it, you'd find this page.


Use TOR to find the torrents, then use OneSwarm for the actual torrenting.
 
2013-03-04 05:06:01 PM  
Downloading a piece of copyrighted material is not, in and of itself, illegal.  Some situations in which downloading a copyrighted work is not illegal:

If you already own the work, you can download a copy of that work without violating the law.
If you're making a parody of the work, you can download the work under the "fair use" doctrine.
If you have permission from the rights holder, you can download a copy of the work.

The difficulty that arises for most torrent users, however, is not that they downloaded the work, but because they have used bittorrent to get the file(s), they have also distributed the work, buy the very nature of how bittorrent works.
 
2013-03-04 05:10:36 PM  

Nexzus: skantea: What about using Https?  The 'S' being the operative letter.

/looking forward to some juicy tips

The 'S' will just encrypt the actual content. Your ISP still knows that you downloaded from the address https://www.beemp3.com/somesong.mp3

And most standard BitTorrent clients will still show who you're connected to, and who's connected to you.


To be clear, your ISP does NOT know you went to the address  https://www.beemp3.com/somesong.mp3

Your ISP knows you opened a connection on port 443 to a particular IP address, and they MAY know that you did a DNS lookup for beemp3.com. Everything after that, including the Host header and the file path are encrypted.
 
2013-03-04 05:17:33 PM  

I created this alt just for this thread: Downloading a piece of copyrighted material is not, in and of itself, illegal.  Some situations in which downloading a copyrighted work is not illegal:

If you already own the work, you can download a copy of that work without violating the law.


I think that this is correct in the spirit of the law. BUT, has anyone actually ever gotten this far?

Because, like, I torrent a lot. If I get nailed for grabbing something, what's to stop me from going to my friendly local used record store, buying a copy, and going to court all, "hey here's my copy, I just wanted it on my iPod too."
 
2013-03-04 05:20:21 PM  
So their entire plan rests on the big ISP's monitoring everyone's connections? Aside from the fact that most of them are incredibly incompetent (I'm looking at you Comcast), monitoring equipment at that scale costs money... lots of money.
 
2013-03-04 05:21:25 PM  
Oh, cool - a birthday green!

/subbette
 
2013-03-04 05:24:54 PM  
North Korea to the rescue!
 
2013-03-04 05:25:44 PM  
Serious question - is it really that simple to "hide behind a proxy?" Can you just change your IP address like that? I feel like you'd need to act as your own ISP, and if you have the ability to do so, why would you need an account with Time Warner anyway?
 
2013-03-04 05:25:45 PM  

Marine1: It'll fail like the rest of the efforts.

Keep farking that chicken, entertainment execs.


Well, they're phrasing it as an attempt to reduce false positives (people that don't really know they're breaking the law getting caught by the systems) rather than a way to catch more of the real, intentional criminals.

I actually don't really have an issue with this.  Stealing content is, after all, stealing content, if they're going after people distributing their shiat without permission rather than the random idiots that are just on the receiving end that actually fixes most of my objections to the copyright bullshiat, aside from the simple longevity of copyrights.
 
2013-03-04 05:40:52 PM  

Tommy Moo: Serious question - is it really that simple to "hide behind a proxy?" Can you just change your IP address like that? I feel like you'd need to act as your own ISP, and if you have the ability to do so, why would you need an account with Time Warner anyway?


You're not changing your IP, you're just routing all your requests through the proxy server (which is why it's called a "proxy.") As long as your proxy server never reveals who has connected to it, it's very safe. But good luck with that.
 
2013-03-04 05:52:46 PM  

MrEricSir: Who needs copyrighted material when you have... copyrighted material? WTF?


There's a difference between "lock it down with drms, ban any attempt to use it" type of copyright and those bolded which are technically copyrighted but honestly they're free for use and modify in most instances. Essentially while everything is copyrighted, there are those which really don't function anywhere close to the evil corporate monster of Big (Insert Industry Here).
 
2013-03-04 05:55:43 PM  

Tommy Moo: Serious question - is it really that simple to "hide behind a proxy?" Can you just change your IP address like that? I feel like you'd need to act as your own ISP, and if you have the ability to do so, why would you need an account with Time Warner anyway?


It's not quite that simple, but it is in a way. Right now your internet connection goes something like this: Computer----Router-----Modem---ISP----Outside world. That's not precisely how it works but it's close enough. Your ISP assigns your IP address to your modem, and unless you have a static IP for some reason (most average users don't) it changes occassionally. Each modem or hell any network equipment has a unique identifier called a MAC address. Your ISP keeps records of what IP was assigned to which MAC address at any given time. What a proxy server does it makes your connection look like this: Computer---Router---Modem---ISP---Proxy/VPN---Outside world. In a way it assigns your connection a different IP address before going to the rest of the outside world. The reason some proxies (the good ones) keep you private is that when companies that are tracking down people torrenting their material get to the proxy/VPN the company running the proxy doesn't give out or even keep records of who gets what IP. So say your modem gets an IP address of 123.456.789.101 from your ISP. When you connect to the proxy/VPN it takes that address and through it's equipment changes it to 125.532.879.103 before going on to the rest of the world. Now it doesn't keep track of what IP was changed into what so the folks tracking that info get stymied.

Mind you that's not really exactly how it works, and I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I can tell you the specifics and point out where I'm wrong, but that's the gist of it.
 
2013-03-04 06:07:39 PM  
i.qkme.me
 
2013-03-04 06:09:53 PM  

Tax Boy: [i.qkme.me image 460x268]


Legal access to the same amount of content that VPN and seedbox gets you access to would cost a whole f*ck of a lot more than $50/mo.
 
2013-03-04 06:11:53 PM  
So, are they only looking at torrent sites?  If so, then I can already see a problem with this:

In the 1990s and early 2000s, people used file sharing sites like LimeWire and Kazzaa.  The groups like the MPAA and RIAA went after those sites and pressured the government to do something about illegal downloads.  Now those sites are dead (apparently).

In or about 2004 I learned of torrents and used that for file sharing.  Once I got into that I stopped using things like Kazzaa.  Now the MPAA, RIAA and the government is looking at torrenting.

So, the problem with this plan is that it does nothing, it seems, to people who use sites like filetube.com to download music, tv shows and movies.  Secondly, it assumes that anyone who downloads form a torrent site is breaking the law, which isn't true.  I took a copyright law course in college.  I bought the first six Star Trek movies on bluray.  Legally I can download them from a torrent site and as long as I have those six movies on disk, I can download those movies via torrent if I so choose.
 
2013-03-04 06:13:59 PM  

Great Janitor: I bought the first six Star Trek movies on bluray.  Legally I can download them from a torrent site and as long as I have those six movies on disk, I can download those movies via torrent if I so choose.


Except that, because of the way torrents work, you're not just downloading the movies, you are also distributing them, and that's what they can get you for.
 
2013-03-04 06:21:03 PM  

Teufelaffe: Great Janitor: I bought the first six Star Trek movies on bluray.  Legally I can download them from a torrent site and as long as I have those six movies on disk, I can download those movies via torrent if I so choose.

Except that, because of the way torrents work, you're not just downloading the movies, you are also distributing them, and that's what they can get you for.


That. The way torrents work is that while you download different pieces of a given file from the numerous other people sharing that file, you are also sharing the pieces that you've already downloaded. That's where the MPAA/RIAA and what not get you.
 
2013-03-04 06:21:54 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Tommy Moo: Serious question - is it really that simple to "hide behind a proxy?" Can you just change your IP address like that? I feel like you'd need to act as your own ISP, and if you have the ability to do so, why would you need an account with Time Warner anyway?

It's not quite that simple, but it is in a way. Right now your internet connection goes something like this: Computer----Router-----Modem---ISP----Outside world. That's not precisely how it works but it's close enough. Your ISP assigns your IP address to your modem, and unless you have a static IP for some reason (most average users don't) it changes occassionally. Each modem or hell any network equipment has a unique identifier called a MAC address. Your ISP keeps records of what IP was assigned to which MAC address at any given time. What a proxy server does it makes your connection look like this: Computer---Router---Modem---ISP---Proxy/VPN---Outside world. In a way it assigns your connection a different IP address before going to the rest of the outside world. The reason some proxies (the good ones) keep you private is that when companies that are tracking down people torrenting their material get to the proxy/VPN the company running the proxy doesn't give out or even keep records of who gets what IP. So say your modem gets an IP address of 123.456.789.101 from your ISP. When you connect to the proxy/VPN it takes that address and through it's equipment changes it to 125.532.879.103 before going on to the rest of the world. Now it doesn't keep track of what IP was changed into what so the folks tracking that info get stymied.

Mind you that's not really exactly how it works, and I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I can tell you the specifics and point out where I'm wrong, but that's the gist of it.


So if I'm following correctly, the information only goes to the proxy once it has left your house and gone through the ISP? Wouldn't that require Time Warner to be complicit in you using a proxy?
 
2013-03-04 06:34:54 PM  

encyclopediaplushuman: MrEricSir: Who needs copyrighted material when you have... copyrighted material? WTF?

There's a difference between "lock it down with drms, ban any attempt to use it" type of copyright and those bolded which are technically copyrighted but honestly they're free for use and modify in most instances. Essentially while everything is copyrighted, there are those which really don't function anywhere close to the evil corporate monster of Big (Insert Industry Here).


Sure. But keep in mind FOSS software, Creative Commons, etc. could not exist without copyright. Copyright is what makes copyleft possible.
 
2013-03-04 06:42:01 PM  

Tommy Moo: Dingleberry Dickwad: Tommy Moo: Serious question - is it really that simple to "hide behind a proxy?" Can you just change your IP address like that? I feel like you'd need to act as your own ISP, and if you have the ability to do so, why would you need an account with Time Warner anyway?

It's not quite that simple, but it is in a way. Right now your internet connection goes something like this: Computer----Router-----Modem---ISP----Outside world. That's not precisely how it works but it's close enough. Your ISP assigns your IP address to your modem, and unless you have a static IP for some reason (most average users don't) it changes occassionally. Each modem or hell any network equipment has a unique identifier called a MAC address. Your ISP keeps records of what IP was assigned to which MAC address at any given time. What a proxy server does it makes your connection look like this: Computer---Router---Modem---ISP---Proxy/VPN---Outside world. In a way it assigns your connection a different IP address before going to the rest of the outside world. The reason some proxies (the good ones) keep you private is that when companies that are tracking down people torrenting their material get to the proxy/VPN the company running the proxy doesn't give out or even keep records of who gets what IP. So say your modem gets an IP address of 123.456.789.101 from your ISP. When you connect to the proxy/VPN it takes that address and through it's equipment changes it to 125.532.879.103 before going on to the rest of the world. Now it doesn't keep track of what IP was changed into what so the folks tracking that info get stymied.

Mind you that's not really exactly how it works, and I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I can tell you the specifics and point out where I'm wrong, but that's the gist of it.

So if I'm following correctly, the information only goes to the proxy once it has left your house and gone through the ISP? Wouldn't that require Time Warner to be complicit in ...


There's nothing illegal about using a proxy though. And before you go to the next step I think you'd jump to, it's not likely that ISP's will get involved in limiting what sites and addresses you connect to, there'd be a pretty huge uproar.
 
2013-03-04 06:45:25 PM  

Tommy Moo: So if I'm following correctly, the information only goes to the proxy once it has left your house and gone through the ISP? Wouldn't that require Time Warner to be complicit in you using a proxy?


The neat thing about proxies is they are just like anything else you connect to on the internet, just your traffic pops out the other side of them and heads towards what you were really wanting to go visit.  Proxies can be configured to listen and repeat on virtually any port so its not like the ISP can just block one port and call it a day, an ISP would have to be actively blocking lists of proxies' IPs and/or inspecting all traffic coming in or leaving their network (good luck doing that in real time against even the most basic encryption).  So they can do something really dirty like start arbitrarily disrupting anything that's encrypted or even smells like torrent traffic (fark you rogers & bell canada) or they just let it go because if they pressed that they'll take enormous heat from other uses of VPN-like things, like people connecting to work or whatever.

So by default you can reach anything on the internet, your ISP would have to want to and expend pretty heavy resources to block proxy or VPN usage, and there's no money in it for them so I don't see that happening short of something really insane like the outlaw of encrypted  traffic on the internet...which would go over as well as you'd think it would.
 
2013-03-04 07:02:54 PM  

SurfaceTension: I still don't get what this fight is about, other than there are execs who simply cannot fathom the idea of changing business models.


There isn't any more to the fight than that. Paradigm shifts are terrifying to stake-holders who don't know if they can survive in a changed economy, so they are willing to expend vast resources to hold the tide as long as they can.
 
2013-03-04 07:23:01 PM  

MrEricSir: Sure. But keep in mind FOSS software, Creative Commons, etc. could not exist without copyright. Copyright is what makes copyleft possible necessary.


FTFY.

Nobody would mess around with those licences, if they didn't have to. The whole point of copyleft licenses is to subvert existing copyright laws and turn them to a different purpose. But it's the stringent copyright laws, and the way that they're applied with makes copyleft necessary in the first place.
 
2013-03-04 07:38:36 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Teufelaffe: Great Janitor: I bought the first six Star Trek movies on bluray.  Legally I can download them from a torrent site and as long as I have those six movies on disk, I can download those movies via torrent if I so choose.

Except that, because of the way torrents work, you're not just downloading the movies, you are also distributing them, and that's what they can get you for.

That. The way torrents work is that while you download different pieces of a given file from the numerous other people sharing that file, you are also sharing the pieces that you've already downloaded. That's where the MPAA/RIAA and what not get you.


Which is interesting, because as far as you know, all the other people in the torrent could have a valid fair use rationale for downloading it. It seems odd you can be "got" for helping someone else commit copyright infringement when you have no reasonable way of knowing whether they were or not. So even though you are "innocent", you should be assuming other peoples guilt otherwise you are complicit in helping them.
 
2013-03-04 07:42:29 PM  

Bad_Seed: MrEricSir: Sure. But keep in mind FOSS software, Creative Commons, etc. could not exist without copyright. Copyright is what makes copyleft possible necessary.

FTFY.

Nobody would mess around with those licences, if they didn't have to. The whole point of copyleft licenses is to subvert existing copyright laws and turn them to a different purpose. But it's the stringent copyright laws, and the way that they're applied with makes copyleft necessary in the first place.


Um, no. There's nothing more "subversive" about the GPL or CC than any other license agreement. Copyleft licenses might be worded differently than your standard EULA, but they're still EULAs.

Think of it this way: copyright gives you the right to decide who can legally copy your work. Period. A copyleft license would be meaningless without this right, as it could not be enforced.
 
2013-03-04 07:56:22 PM  

xria: Dingleberry Dickwad: Teufelaffe: Great Janitor: I bought the first six Star Trek movies on bluray.  Legally I can download them from a torrent site and as long as I have those six movies on disk, I can download those movies via torrent if I so choose.

Except that, because of the way torrents work, you're not just downloading the movies, you are also distributing them, and that's what they can get you for.

That. The way torrents work is that while you download different pieces of a given file from the numerous other people sharing that file, you are also sharing the pieces that you've already downloaded. That's where the MPAA/RIAA and what not get you.

Which is interesting, because as far as you know, all the other people in the torrent could have a valid fair use rationale for downloading it. It seems odd you can be "got" for helping someone else commit copyright infringement when you have no reasonable way of knowing whether they were or not. So even though you are "innocent", you should be assuming other peoples guilt otherwise you are complicit in helping them.


Not sure you're understanding things. Downloading isn't the copyright infringement. It's the uploading, or making it available for other people who may or may not have paid for the content. If you are allowing your torrent software to upload your pieces of the whole with the community at large, that is where you are infringing, and at that point you are not "innocent" as you said. They can't prove that you never had a legitimate copy of artist x's album and that you're legally downloading a copy as a backup. But they sure as hell can prove that you made that copy available to others which is illegal.
 
2013-03-04 07:59:33 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Not sure you're understanding things. Downloading isn't the copyright infringement. It's the uploading, or making it available for other people who may or may not have paid for the content. If you are allowing your torrent software to upload your pieces of the whole with the community at large, that is where you are infringing, and at that point you are not "innocent" as you said. They can't prove that you never had a legitimate copy of artist x's album and that you're legally downloading a copy as a backup. But they sure as hell can prove that you made that copy available to others which is illegal.


Well both are, just its much easier to prove the making it available angle.  Plus if they brought up the downloading angle they'd have to admit that they are participating just as much as the accused in providing these resources to others which always throws a big wet blanket on their integrity.
 
2013-03-04 08:17:03 PM  
I am not tech smrt.  Could someone explain how the ISP (or anyone) would know what I am downloading unless it is clearly labeled:  Big Boob Motorboat Adventures
 
2013-03-04 08:28:49 PM  
I'm sure there is something I'm not thinking about, but why not have it set up so that all torrent filenames are random characters, and have a search engine that you could search for some_content.mp3 and it then list and link to the proper torrent? i.e.:

some_song.mp3 -> s8d3l98f300ddde
some_video.mkv -> 32dq84f3lk2dono

So when they have your IP in a swarm, they can't say "your ip was downloading some_video.mkv". I guess they could say "your ip was downloading 32dq84f3lk2dono, which, according to "search engine X" is supposed to be some_video.mkv", which to me seems like pretty shaky evidence that you were downloading something infringing. what if another search engine listed 32dq84f3lk2dono as being legit_linux_distro.iso? There would be no way for them to know which search engine you were using, thus, no way to prove what it was you were, or thought you were, downloading.
 
2013-03-04 08:30:29 PM  
The only way the copyright holders can see who is currently sharing the torrent is to be sharing it themselves.

That means that they are voluntarily giving away the content.  They chose to connect to the torrent and allow other people to download parts of the movie from them.

So suing people downloading the torrents is kind of like putting out free samples in a store and then filing shoplifting charges against the people who take them.

I wonder if anybody has tried using a version of that argument.  It's a moot point for me however.  I'm an old geezer so I usethe technology that has been around since the start of the internet.  It's faster and you don't have to worry about having your connection throttled or cut off if you aren't sharing yourself.
 
2013-03-04 08:31:04 PM  

MBA Whore: I am not tech smrt.  Could someone explain how the ISP (or anyone) would know what I am downloading unless it is clearly labeled:  Big Boob Motorboat Adventures


The companies that put out movies and music and other copyrighted material hire tech firms and other companies that specialize in finding people that have been torrenting their property. These folks spend all day searching torrent sites for their customer's material. From there they can start torrenting that file themselves and get a list of the peers sharing the file. They take that list of peers (IP addresses) and find out what ISP controls the various IP's and sends the ISP a notice saying X IP at Y date participated in torrenting z file. After that it depends on your ISP what happens. Some will outright give up your name and address and so forth, others will just give you a warning and not give up your info right off the bat.

As far as how they know what it is you're downloading they have various methods of sampling the file to check it's contents.
 
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