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(NPR)   Cardinals can't agree when to start conclave, still trying to live down the embarrassment of losing to the Giants in last year's NLCS   (npr.org) divider line 85
    More: Followup, NL Championship Series, Giants, College of Cardinals, Vatican II, embarrassments, pedophile priests, sexual ethics, cronyism  
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2421 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 11:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 01:24:21 PM

littlett's: Shrugging Atlas: /3rd place this year, at best

The Reds then who?  The Cubs, Pirates, and Brewers at this point don't really seem that much stronger.

I do think the Reds will take the NL Central this year though.


Brewers in second.  And no, I don't think they're that great either.

But the Cardinals have already lost their starting shortstop (I'd say for the year) and their 1 or 2 pitcher in Carpenter.  They have no second basemen because I think Wong is still a year away.  Garcia is a giant question mark with his health.

So we're looking at at least 2 new pitchers in the rotation with Lohse gone.  Three if Garcia falls to pieces which if history is any indication he will.  The rotation whoever is in it lives and dies by the ground ball, and they have no 'starting' quality shortstop or second baseman.  The offense will be in a good shape but still doesn't have a leadoff hitter.

I'm just not feeling it this year.  I think the team is in worse shape than it was last year, and it barely landed them the second WC spot.

I'm not complaining mind you:  The Card's management is in a strange place right now.  They have all these guys in AAA that are a year or maybe less away from being big league ready, so it's really hard to see them going out and plunking down a ton of cash to fill holes that are going to be filled by cheap but talented rookies.  It's not like they straight up just suck...just not good enough to make a playoff spot unless they get really lucky and the Dusty Baker Effect has more impact than normal on the Reds.
 
2013-03-04 01:26:01 PM
I still say that they should put all the Cardinals in a room and let them fight to the death.  The last one living lights the fire and is declared the new pope.
 
2013-03-04 01:29:48 PM
It's gonna end up between the nerd and the asshat he brings to the end.

/but first....
 
2013-03-04 01:30:27 PM

TuteTibiImperes: chimp_ninja: Nate Silver is on the case.  What Betting Markets are Saying About the Next Pope.

cptjeff: There's a Canadian who's rumoured to be a top candidate for the job.

Odds are at 12% on him, so you could make a pretty penny if you think you're right.

Ghana pope at 22%, Argentina pope at 7%.  Rounding out the field is a couple of other South Americans, 2 US longshots, a Mexican pope, a 55-year-old guy from the Philippines, Nigeria, and a bunch of indistinguishable Italian octogenerians.

Hopefully, the Vatican agrees to announce runner-up popes, because this would be more exciting if a superfecta was in play.

Mexico has some pretty hardcore Catholics.  There's a Mexican-American owned construction company around here and the tailgate of every one of their pickups has an airbrushed depiction of Jesus wearing the crown of thorns.  I'm surprised the Mexican cardinal isn't higher up in the ratings.


Because it's not just about who has the most or hardest core Catholics?

People have been predicting an African pope for a while now, but I have to go with no. The Church won't be looking to reward someone from where the Church is strong, that's not what the position is about. They'll be looking for somebody who can strengthen it where it's weak, and that's the secular environs of Europe and those who are still religious, but increasingly uncomfortable with the conservationism of the church in North America. And the 3rd world guys who might be candidates for the black pope thing are very hard right, and would not have any sort of background that would suit them to rebuilding the church's presence in a secular world. I think they're aware of the imagery of going back to an Italian guy and probably won't do that. They're also aware of the sex abuse scandal, and are going to be looking for somebody scrupulously clean there, and who might be inclined to clean house. If they do select a clean house guy, they might look for older, since everyone in that room is pretty conservative, and the type of pope to clean house might also be the type to be a little unpredictable theologically. John XXIII's liberalism was considered a surprise, after all, and they probably want to limit the damage if that happens.

And of course, personal qualities come into play. The speculation is that it's entirely possible a leader will emerge in these planning meetings, who becomes the next pope or a significant force in the conclave. But how many languages a guy speaks, abilities as a manager (where something like, say, being the head of the US conference of catholic bishops might be useful), especially since Benedict was reportedly weak in that role, and of course, leadership and vision. A lot goes into it.

\Can you tell I've been reading about this some?
 
2013-03-04 01:37:33 PM
Hoyvin conclavin!

colinon.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-04 01:40:15 PM
It's not clear how much the cardinals want to overhaul.

"A lot of things really need a change, and we need a wind of change," says theologian Hans Kung, a former colleague and later antagonist of Benedict XVI. He points to the dwindling number of faithful and priests, the need for a greater women's presence in the church and revised sexual ethics.


I don't think they need to change much - of course, they would dearly love to have anyone that used to be a Carpenter.

But bringing women into the  dugout?  Not so sure about that at all.

Sexual ethics?  Wow, I mean just....wow!

I must have missed that Benedict kid - does he play for Memphis?

I don't know how many priests attend their games, but I don't know about dwindling numbers of faithful - I think they still had great attendance last year.

It's like this guy doesn't really know that much about baseball - but I knew they were cooked last year when I saw black smoke coming out of the clubhouse - popcorn was DEFINITELY burned....
 
2013-03-04 01:47:46 PM
It's all BS so why bother.


At a lavish Good Friday banquet in theVatican in 1514, and in the company

of "seven intimates" (A n n a l e sE c c l e s i a s t i c i, Caesar Baronius, FolioAntwerp, 1597, tome 14), Leo made

an amazing announcement that the Church has since tried hard to invalidate. Raising a chalice of

wine into the air, Pope Leo toasted:

"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our

predecessors."
 
2013-03-04 01:51:18 PM

Bill the unknowing: It's not clear how much the cardinals want to overhaul.

"A lot of things really need a change, and we need a wind of change," says theologian Hans Kung, a former colleague and later antagonist of Benedict XVI. He points to the dwindling number of faithful and priests, the need for a greater women's presence in the church and revised sexual ethics.

I don't think they need to change much - of course, they would dearly love to have anyone that used to be a Carpenter.

But bringing women into the  dugout?  Not so sure about that at all.

Sexual ethics?  Wow, I mean just....wow!

I must have missed that Benedict kid - does he play for Memphis?

I don't know how many priests attend their games, but I don't know about dwindling numbers of faithful - I think they still had great attendance last year.

It's like this guy doesn't really know that much about baseball - but I knew they were cooked last year when I saw black smoke coming out of the clubhouse - popcorn was DEFINITELY burned....


Should I have the steak? Will you be here all week?

/kidding, good to see Cardinals Nation going strong, and I hope they surprise Shrugging Atlas.
 
2013-03-04 02:22:02 PM
show me: Should I have the steak? Will you be here all week?

You could go for the steak, as long as it's not a tube steak.  But I'm more into ham.....tip your bartender, the guy with the funny red hat!

I'm hopeful, but I'm thinking it's another  "close but not quite there" year.....aside from a couple folks, they aren't loaded with age, which may help down the stretch.
 
2013-03-04 02:23:38 PM
"Well, it was a secret meeting in the dead of the night With mysterious sanctimony In accordance with prescribed Rituals of time honored ceremony
Matters of grave concern Were weighed with dedicated caution Like whether or not to raise at stud Or draw or spit in the ocean "
 
2013-03-04 02:41:40 PM

jbc: Can't be a Cubs fan. They've completely forgotten that baseball can be played in October.


Typical Cards fan. More obsessed with the Cubs than his own team.
Substitute White Sox for Cards also.
 
2013-03-04 03:04:32 PM
At least the Cardinals went down fighting. My guys performed like the French did in 1940.

/Tigers fan
//Catholic
///parked at the convent
 
2013-03-04 03:17:11 PM

Nightsweat: jbc: Can't be a Cubs fan. They've completely forgotten that baseball can be played in October.

Typical Cards fan. More obsessed with the Cubs than his own team.
Substitute White Sox for Cards also.


It's just that you provide us with so much entertainment with all the haplessness. And it's cool to take a trip up there once a year to catch a Cardinals victory, because we admit there's a lot of cool stuff to do in Chicago. I haven't taken the train yet, but I look forward to that sometime, especially if they get off their asses and put in the high speed corridor.
 
2013-03-04 03:19:07 PM
You HAD to bring that up, subs.

/We liked playing Texas so much in 2011 we became them the following year.
 
2013-03-04 03:23:51 PM

Famous Thamas: cptjeff: SirEattonHogg: Oh we're talking about those Cardinals.  Okay, so pick a pope from South America or Africa.  Someone young.

And let's get back to talking about the important stuff like MLB regular season starting in 30 days.  Yeeehaaaahhhh

I'd bet against South America or Africa, actually. The church is doing fine there, they're probably going to pick somebody from North America or Europe who they think can stop the bleeding in those areas.

Personally, I'm hoping for a black pope, because that would be awesome.


The sort of man that would lead the simple congregation, the people of the faith, the common clay of the year of our lord.

You know.

Morons.
 
2013-03-04 04:05:13 PM
If only there were some authority figure who could intercede, some... "higher power" if you will, who could settle this dispute, some omnicient being that...

/you get where this is going
 
2013-03-04 04:12:12 PM
hardest part of being in the College of Cardinals?  It's not just the freshmen who wear the little beanies, so you don't know who to haze.
 
2013-03-04 04:14:34 PM

LibertyHiller: At least the Cardinals went down fighting. My guys performed like the French did in 1940.

/Tigers fan
//Catholic
///parked at the convent



I hope when I go to the World Series this year, I can see my team get a guy past second base!
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2013-03-04 04:15:07 PM

Nightsweat: Typical Cards fan. More obsessed with the Cubs than his own team.


Typical Cubs fan. Shiat-for-brains imbecile living in a fantasy world with no grasp on reality.
 
2013-03-04 04:22:53 PM

TuteTibiImperes: So that is where the Cardinals meet?  That's... dissapointing.  It doesn't look much different from an average corporate conference room or university lecture hall.

I was imagining a room deep within the heart of the Vatican, lit only by candles, ancient stone floors, intricate stained glass, and a faraway vaulted ceiling covered in murals and stained with centuries of candle and incense smoke.


The actual conclave, where they vote for the pope, takes place in the Sistine Chapel.
 
2013-03-04 04:23:47 PM

leftyguitar: If only there were some authority figure who could intercede, some... "higher power" if you will, who could settle this dispute, some omnicient being that...

/you get where this is going


Vince McMahon?
 
2013-03-04 04:35:06 PM
And STILL no mention of albino monks!!


/wasn't he a deep-fielder?
 
2013-03-04 04:37:14 PM

sephjnr: leftyguitar: If only there were some authority figure who could intercede, some... "higher power" if you will, who could settle this dispute, some omnicient being that...

/you get where this is going

Vince McMahon?


Haha, works for me. He has more moral credibility than most of these guys.
 
2013-03-04 04:48:10 PM
Is this a Cardinals thread?

Then all I have to say is: Buster Posey healthy and ready to play.  Just like 2010 and 2012.

GO GIANTS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_jopBXcbxk
 
2013-03-04 06:12:08 PM

TigersorHawksorBoth: LibertyHiller: At least the Cardinals went down fighting. My guys performed like the French did in 1940.

/Tigers fan
//Catholic
///parked at the convent


I hope when I go to the World Series this year, I can see my team get a guy past second base!


No shiat; I had better OBP in junior high than the Tiggies did in October.
 
2013-03-04 08:27:52 PM

SwiftFox: Why'd they name them after those birds anyway?


Ravens would have been much better.  Dress them all in black.  They really need a uniform change.
 
2013-03-04 09:09:54 PM

SwiftFox: Why'd they name them after those birds anyway?


Probably the same reason roman gods were named after planets.
 
2013-03-04 10:52:01 PM
I find it absolutely fascinating that everyone in this thread speaking from a position of some knowlege on the subject seems to be making the same error:

You're assuming that the College of Cardinals chooses a pope based on logical evaluation of the cardinals in question and each one's potential to benefit and lead the Church.

But they don't.  "Discernment" is a wonderful little euphemism used by the religious (as in, people in the religious life - priests, monks and nuns) for "justifying doing what I damn well please."  The pope is elected by bribery, politicking, blackmail and promises of future appointments.  Just like any other political game.  The difference is that, unlike political parties, this particular organization has millennia of experience at it.

Old, white, politically connected, European pope.  Book it.  Done.
 
2013-03-05 12:26:55 AM

jbc: Nightsweat: Typical Cards fan. More obsessed with the Cubs than his own team.

Typical Cubs fan. Shiat-for-brains imbecile living in a fantasy world with no grasp on reality.


Well, we have grown to expect that.
 
2013-03-05 01:56:15 AM

cptjeff: SirEattonHogg: Oh we're talking about those Cardinals.  Okay, so pick a pope from South America or Africa.  Someone young.

And let's get back to talking about the important stuff like MLB regular season starting in 30 days.  Yeeehaaaahhhh

I'd bet against South America or Africa, actually. The church is doing fine there, they're probably going to pick somebody from North America or Europe who they think can stop the bleeding in those areas.


No way. There are no southpaws with sure gloves and speed around the bases from North America. And Europeans are out, because you can't kick a baseball. Now, the  other Cardinals do need a kicker and some some corn-fed American beef on the o-line.
 
2013-03-05 01:57:39 AM

uncleacid: Pope La Russa has a nice ring to it.


Those post-Mass press conferences would be amazing!
 
2013-03-05 02:01:26 AM

cptjeff: JohnCarter: College of Cardinals think they are all that...like they could play in the SEC.  Alabama would decimate them, they are small on the O line and have no pass rush.

This is why everybody makes fun of how ridiculously arrogant SEC fans are. Even the worst NFL team could wipe Alabama off the map.


I take it you didn't see the Jaguars last season. That's OK, neither did anybody else.
 
2013-03-05 02:04:28 AM

cptjeff: SirEattonHogg: cptjeff
SirEattonHogg: Oh we're talking about those Cardinals.  Okay, so pick a pope from South America or Africa.  Someone young.

And let's get back to talking about the important stuff like MLB regular season starting in 30 days.  Yeeehaaaahhhh


I'd bet against South America or Africa, actually. The church is doing fine there, they're probably going to pick somebody from North America or Europe who they think can stop the bleeding in those areas.

The problem with a European pope (especially another Italian one) is its a sign that the church can't relate with the fact that its growth membership is in S. America and Africa.  They've had Italian popes for milenium.  A European pope seems largely no different.

An American pope is interesting, but the problem there is American catholics are regarded as too liberal.  A lot of US catholics are fairly indifferent about birth control, gay rights or even abortion.  Yes, there are conservative right Catholic political groups, but had the Catholic lay persons actually listened to the priests and the political groups which way to vote, a lot of the most recent political elections in the US may have gone a different way.

The bad thing about an African pope is the brand of Christianity in Africa is pretty old school conservative stuff.  I don't know if its just the evangelicals protestants. So, yeah, its someone different wearing the pope's hat, but someone not willing to bend on some social issues.

There's a Canadian who's rumoured to be a top candidate for the job.


Ah, good. An Apologist.
 
2013-03-05 02:36:25 AM

show me: jbc: Nightsweat: Typical Cards fan. More obsessed with the Cubs than his own team.

Typical Cubs fan. Shiat-for-brains imbecile living in a fantasy world with no grasp on reality.

Well, we have grown to expect that.


On the contrary, nobody haas a better grasp on reality than a Cubs fan; you wake up hopeful, looking forward to a bright new day, then traffic's a mess, you break a tooth right after a perfect presentation andright before the most important meeting of your life - which you fail- so everybody else on your team gives up on you and themselves, your boss makes stupid decisions that cost you your bonus, your wife leaves you, your dog bites you, you burn dinner and order pizza but it's an hour late in coming and they put anchovies on it anyway, your internet service is down and your lights go out, you'd kill yourself but the knives are all dull, you fall into bed on a mattress that hasn't changed in 100 years. That's the Chicago way.
 
2013-03-05 03:21:03 AM

SwiftFox: Why'd they name them after those birds anyway?


Actually it has nothing to do with the bird and rather the Latin word for heart.
 
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