If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Boston Herald)   People use EBT to buy guns, porn, booze. Paging Dr. N.S. Sherlock   (bostonherald.com) divider line 221
    More: Obvious, EBT, nail salon  
•       •       •

8651 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 8:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



221 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-03-04 08:22:47 AM  
So long as my tax dollars are being spent wisely, that's the important thing.
 
2013-03-04 08:27:04 AM  
Somehow the recipients are to blame for this and not the wildly incompetent  FIS.
 
2013-03-04 08:45:49 AM  
They do not.  They use it for staples, and only until they get back on their feet.  You shut up, meany!
 
2013-03-04 08:46:16 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Somehow the recipients are to blame for this and not the wildly incompetent  FIS.


Yea if I found out I could use it to buy guns, booze and porn then I'd go buck wild.
 
2013-03-04 08:47:23 AM  
wtf ? in oregon i see people ring up a whole cart and then pay what they can on card and the beer and smokes in cash. why the hell are these idiots not capable ? ounds like bribes to keep the money flowing from taxpayers to businesses
 
2013-03-04 08:47:24 AM  
Anyone who uses this example to criticize the EBT system is a brainwashed GOP shill who wants to make the poor start to death and have the rest of us vote Republican.
 
2013-03-04 08:47:26 AM  
I had a freind that paid his rent in food stamp purchases. He was a single man getting stamps for a family of 4. Not a deadbeat, just a clerical error.
 
2013-03-04 08:48:05 AM  
This headline: people use EBT to buy guns, porn, and booze

This article: welfare chief says that his incompetence  may allow peopleto buy guns, porn, and booze with EBT due to a failure in implementing oversights (loophole)

This thread: full derp in three comments, nobody having read the article
 
2013-03-04 08:48:28 AM  
WTF is EBT?
 
2013-03-04 08:48:31 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Because People in power are Stupid: Somehow the recipients are to blame for this and not the wildly incompetent  FIS.

Yea if I found out I could use it to buy guns, booze and porn then I'd go buck wild.


But why not guns? They can use them to fish.
 
2013-03-04 08:50:32 AM  

mike_d85: I had a freind that paid his rent in food stamp purchases. He was a single man getting stamps for a family of 4. Not a deadbeat, just a clerical error thief.


Word.
 
2013-03-04 08:50:53 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Somehow the recipients are to blame for this and not the wildly incompetent  FIS.


Well, when the actual cards themselves start spending the money, then you can blame the FIS.  Until then, yes - blame the recipients.  They received a subsidy meant for one thing and are spending it on other stuff.
 
2013-03-04 08:51:33 AM  
EBT is "Electronic Benefits Transfer" card. Who knew you could get electronics as a benefit?
 
2013-03-04 08:52:14 AM  

Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?


Electronic Benefits Transfer.

food stamps on a card.
 
2013-03-04 08:54:28 AM  
The government wants to give them consequence free money, that is what people are going to do. They just want a hand out and will find any loophole they can to exploit it. None of this is new though. This information gets passed down from welfare mom to child and on and on. They know how to buck the system before they can speak.
 
2013-03-04 08:57:25 AM  

The Muthaship: They do not.  They use it for staples, and only until they get back on their feet.  You shut up, meany!


Even if you are correct, office supplies are not a product intended to be purchased using government assistance.
 
2013-03-04 08:57:53 AM  

Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?


Don't bother reading the article, it doesn't explain that.
 
2013-03-04 08:58:22 AM  
See, this is why we should help nobody, ever.
 
2013-03-04 08:58:35 AM  
Yes because god forbid someone have a small bit of pleasure to distract them from the horrific poverty they suffer
 
2013-03-04 08:59:18 AM  
We obviously need to stop helping poor people and raise their taxes instead.  That'll teach them.
 
2013-03-04 08:59:56 AM  
"Anyone who uses this example to criticize the EBT system is a brainwashed GOP shill who wants to make the poor start to death and have the rest of us vote Republican."

0/10.
 
2013-03-04 09:00:20 AM  

ronaprhys: Because People in power are Stupid: Somehow the recipients are to blame for this and not the wildly incompetent  FIS.

Well, when the actual cards themselves start spending the money, then you can blame the FIS.  Until then, yes - blame the recipients.  They received a subsidy meant for one thing and are spending it on other stuff.


Except that there should be a system in place so that the cards can't be used to buy something like liquor.

But I've worked with FIS. They are incompetent and that is being nice.
 
2013-03-04 09:01:31 AM  
Does NS stand for not a situation?

-Billco
This is when you get mad at government wasting money?
 
2013-03-04 09:07:21 AM  
People use EBT to buy guns, porn, booze. Paging Dr. N.S. Sherlock

There's your problem right there.
 
2013-03-04 09:09:02 AM  

Raider_dad: Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?

Electronic Benefits Transfer.

food stamps on a card.


Thanks - I had an idea it was welfare. I just didn't know the acronym.

So they've cured Sickle Cell Anemia? (yeah, bad racist joke is bad - and racist)

And I don't know if welfare actually OFFICIALLY pays for the stuff mentioned in the headline, but I learned a lesson the first time I loaned a few bucks to a neighbor when I was in college. The loan was to buy booze. He wanted to pay me and my roommate back with food stamps. We refused, but apparently it is currency among some people.
 
2013-03-04 09:12:12 AM  

Dimensio: The Muthaship: They do not.  They use it for staples, and only until they get back on their feet.  You shut up, meany!

Even if you are correct, office supplies are not a product intended to be purchased using government assistance.


So now you are anti-capitalism?  You people are never happy....
 
2013-03-04 09:14:41 AM  
It's free, swipe your EBT!
 
2013-03-04 09:15:25 AM  
Government assistance should require implantable or injectable birth control.

I have no problem supporting someone who is incapable of supporting themselves, cradle to grave. I have many problems with allowing people who can't support themselves to procreate.
 
2013-03-04 09:17:21 AM  
Entitlements.
How the fark do they work?
 
2013-03-04 09:18:52 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Except that there should be a system in place so that the cards can't be used to buy something like liquor.



There is in every other state. What the fark is Massachusetts problem? The abuse of the cash portion of the card will never go away.
 
2013-03-04 09:19:18 AM  
Also the hottest, newest smartphones.

Nothing cheers my day more than an EBT wielding, demanding, obnoxious mother-of-five using her freshly "did" nails to pry said EBT card from her cash-fat wallet because she's "tired of all my girlfriends telling me I need a new phone, ya heard me?"

Oh, and said women come in all sorts of colors.
 
2013-03-04 09:19:29 AM  
People buy porn?
 
2013-03-04 09:20:50 AM  

spickus: Because People in power are Stupid: Except that there should be a system in place so that the cards can't be used to buy something like liquor.


There is in every other state. What the fark is Massachusetts problem? The abuse of the cash portion of the card will never go away.


in Oregon, there is no cash access unless one is over the retirement age.  solved.

/still trade groceries for $50-$100 cash to  my unemployed friends about every other month
 
2013-03-04 09:20:54 AM  
Type I vs Type II errors. Are you more concerned with some people buying porn with EBT or with children going hungry without EBT?

Anyway, if they're buying guns with the money, I'm a little surprised our Second Amendment Brigade isn't wildly cheering this government subsidy of a basic human right.
 
2013-03-04 09:26:12 AM  

machodonkeywrestler: Does NS stand for not a situation?

-Billco
This is when you get mad at government wasting money?


I am not happy with the government for all the ways they waste my tax dollars.  That includes any number of things that conservatives support as well as the things that liberals choose to waste money on.  This is but one example of our out of control government not properly supervising our money.

Are you OK with this?
 
2013-03-04 09:27:48 AM  

SploogeTime: "Anyone who uses this example to criticize the EBT system is a brainwashed GOP shill who wants to make the poor start to death and have the rest of us vote Republican."

0/10.


speaking of brainwashed....
 
2013-03-04 09:29:57 AM  

MCStymie: It's free, swipe your EBT


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzspsovNvII [explicit!]
 
2013-03-04 09:31:11 AM  

Mimic_Octopus:  In Oregon, there is no cash access unless one is over the retirement age.  solved.

Some welfare benefits such as TANF are deposited directly onto EBT cards for cash withdrawal. These benefits aren't going to retirement age people.  Oregon does this too.

Mimic_Octopus: still trade groceries for $50-$100 cash to  my unemployed friends about every other month


This has gone on since the start of the program and will likely never stop. Perhaps your benefits are too generous.
 
2013-03-04 09:31:20 AM  
and yall keep voting Democrat...
i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-04 09:32:12 AM  

m053486: Oh, and said women come in all sorts of colors.


But mostly in only one size.
 
2013-03-04 09:32:26 AM  
One of my co-workers told me about using someone's EBT card once. She paid the person half the value of the balance on the card, in cash. Then she went to a discount grocery place and stocked up in meats and lots of non-perishable stuff.

I'm sure that's illegal as all hell, but I don't blame her for doing it.
 
2013-03-04 09:32:31 AM  
The agency also claimed that a system that can discriminate between items doesn't exist.

Absolute nonsense, as is most of the article. As someone who has EBT and lives in NJ, every grocery store I've been to knows exactly what is and isn't purchasable with foodstamps. If I have some groceries and say things like mouth wash and soap, it all goes as one purchase, I swipe EBT, EBT pays for all the food stuff and specifically not the things that aren't food, and I can pay with any of the other standard means (cash, credit, debit) for the non food items. No human makes the call, the system knows what is and isn't purchasable.

As someone who actually uses this program, nothing in this article actually meshes with my experience. But maybe NJ is the one state where it's working as intended?

/My anecdote IS DATA
//Pose in threatening poor person posture
 
2013-03-04 09:33:24 AM  
In MN it is food only, starting in July they will only be able to use them within the state because people are taking them to other states to make the unauthorized purchases.  There is also a push to exclude a lot of crap food like cola.
 
2013-03-04 09:33:26 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Tat'dGreaser: Because People in power are Stupid: Somehow the recipients are to blame for this and not the wildly incompetent  FIS.

Yea if I found out I could use it to buy guns, booze and porn then I'd go buck wild.

But why not guns? They can use them to fish.



Guns for fishing? Too much work. That's what the dynamite is for.
 
2013-03-04 09:33:50 AM  

m053486: Oh, and said women come in all sorts of colors Cadillacs.


FTFY.  We all know what you meant.
 
2013-03-04 09:36:24 AM  
And this is why the USA is circling the drain, in debt up to its eyebrows. When you buy votes with EBT, you get corruption at every level and an intractable debt problem.

Liberalism is a mental disorder caused by self-pity.
 
2013-03-04 09:37:08 AM  
It's still a lot better than it used to be.  In the days of paper food stamps exchanging them for drugs, booze and BJs was rampant.
 
2013-03-04 09:37:09 AM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Yes because god forbid someone have a small bit of pleasure to distract them from the horrific poverty they suffer


A gun is a "small bit of pleasure?"

Also, if they are wasting money on guns, booze and porn then they are not spending it on things they claim they need like food. If my fridge is empty and I have ten dollars on my card, I am not spending it on porn or booze. I am buying food.

There are people who use EBT for exactly what it is intended for but there's always some people who if they think they can cheat the system they will. Doesn't it matter if they are poor or rich. The streak of immorality sees no class boundaries.
 
2013-03-04 09:38:41 AM  

Fukuzawa: it all goes as one purchase, I swipe EBT, EBT pays for all the food stuff and specifically not the things that aren't food, and I can pay with any of the other standard means



That's how it works everywhere but Massachusetts.
 
2013-03-04 09:38:50 AM  

sodomizer: Liberalism is a mental disorder caused by self-pity.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-04 09:39:00 AM  

spickus: This has gone on since the start of the program and will likely never stop. Perhaps your benefits are too generous.


to be clear, i get the groceries, i give the cash.  lots of times it is not for them to buy beer (sometimes it is) but to cover monthly transit passes to facilitate looking for work, which is almost impossible while unemployed with no resources and no free transit for poor. a monthly pass here costs about a week of someone's unemployment, so 25% month, you can't make rent and be able to go to interviews without the scam...
 
2013-03-04 09:39:26 AM  

Gifted Many Few: The government wants to give them consequence free money, that is what people are going to do. They just want a hand out and will find any loophole they can to exploit it. None of this is new though. This information gets passed down from welfare mom to child and on and on. They know how to buck the system before they can speak.


2/10
points deducted for using Reagan-era welfare queen propaganda
 
2013-03-04 09:41:01 AM  
Guns? Made in America.
Booze? Made in America (mostly).
Porn? Made in America (mostly).

OMG my tax payer dollars are profiting ventures in the United States, which feeds back into the local and national economy? Unfathomable! This must end! This money could be used to fund tax exemptions for countries that offshore jobs!
 
2013-03-04 09:41:21 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: Government assistance should require implantable or injectable birth control.

I have no problem supporting someone who is incapable of supporting themselves, cradle to grave. I have many problems with allowing people who can't support themselves to procreate.


DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD!
 
2013-03-04 09:42:18 AM  

mekki: A gun is a "small bit of pleasure?"


Yes, seeing that one can purchase a weapon at retail price then turn around and sell it at street price and make a profit.

It happens, not a lot, but it does.
 
2013-03-04 09:42:34 AM  

Arkanaut: People use EBT to buy guns, porn, booze. Paging Dr. N.S. Sherlock

There's your problem right there.


God, no wonder they're poor.
 
2013-03-04 09:43:33 AM  

Fukuzawa: The agency also claimed that a system that can discriminate between items doesn't exist.

Absolute nonsense, as is most of the article. As someone who has EBT and lives in NJ, every grocery store I've been to knows exactly what is and isn't purchasable with foodstamps. If I have some groceries and say things like mouth wash and soap, it all goes as one purchase, I swipe EBT, EBT pays for all the food stuff and specifically not the things that aren't food, and I can pay with any of the other standard means (cash, credit, debit) for the non food items. No human makes the call, the system knows what is and isn't purchasable.


In Alabama and Kentucky, I always noticed the "X" and the "F" notations on various lines on my grocery receipts.

The "X" indicated an item that could not be purchased with food stamps/EBT.

The "F" indicated an item that could not be purchased with food stamps/EBT but COULD be purchased with a flex spending account (before the regulations changed and they stopped allowing OTC purchases).

/The plural of anecdote is data.
 
2013-03-04 09:43:44 AM  

clane: and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]


I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.

There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?
 
2013-03-04 09:45:00 AM  

Fukuzawa: As someone who actually uses this program, nothing in this article actually meshes with my experience. But maybe NJ is the one state where it's working as intended?


My medical insurance comes with a FSA card, which prior to some string-tightening used to be usable for OTC medical products.  If you went to, say, a grocer and bought allergy medicine and ibuprofen along with your regular groceries, swiping the FSA card first would allot payment only for those eligible items.  The rest of the groceries wouldn't cause a debit, and you'd pay the rest of your bill normally.

I'm perplexed as to why this article describes such a system as non-existent.
 
2013-03-04 09:45:16 AM  
There are 3 sides to this entire "socialist" argument.  And, here I will illustrate them:

1.  There are people that are unable to work for whatever reason, be it disability, lack of child care options, etc.  So the gov't tries to give them a little money to survive, because the alternative is for them to be institutionalized, and that would cost even more than welfare.

2.  There are people that are unable to work for whatever reason, be it disability, lack of child care options, etc. So, the solution is to let them die and decrease the surplus population.

3.  There are a great number of assholes that take advantage of point #1 to a ludicrous degree.  They are the reason that people on the side of point #2 feel the way they do.

To summerize...  The idea of helping those down on there luck, is a good idea.  The idea of people taking advantage of that is completely f'n wrong.
So what's the final solution?  Obviously there is none.  Otheriwise this debate would not be raging on.
 
2013-03-04 09:46:11 AM  

darwinpolice: Arkanaut: People use EBT to buy guns, porn, booze. Paging Dr. N.S. Sherlock

There's your problem right there.

God, no wonder they're poor.


Are you saying they should be producing porn, or having sex (and making more poor babbys) instead??
 
2013-03-04 09:46:53 AM  

bdub77: Guns? Made in America.
Booze? Made in America (mostly).
Porn? Made in America (mostly).

OMG my tax payer dollars are profiting ventures in the United States, which feeds back into the local and national economy? Unfathomable! This must end! This money could be used to fund tax exemptions for countries that offshore jobs!


So what you're saying is that EBT for porn isn't bad, as long as it isn't used for Russian, Czech and Japanese porn?
 
2013-03-04 09:47:08 AM  
Trust me the system is much better than it used to be when food stamps were paper and people who have their kids buy five cent candies with one dollar food stamps just to get the change.   Food stamps via EBT does not give change.    If any store allows a gun to be paid for with food stamps then the store itself has committed fraud.   It can be fined and have its right to accept food stamps revoked which will almost certain cost them far more than the fraud will have received them.    This kind of fraud is almost certainly very rare as it is not worth it.

But this article is actually about states that use EBT to deliver cash benefits.    Does it surprise anyone that some people will make poor choices in the use of money that is given them.  The only real way to stop that is never to give anyone a helping hand.

/A store manager at a store I worked at once followed a food stamp customer who repeatedly used her food stamps to buy high-dollar energy drinks to a convenience store and then reported the store.   She was selling them to the store for pennies on the dollar for cash.  The sad thing was that she probably needed the food stamps but was probably desperate to get drugs.    Anything can be abused.  I am not going to support the idea that the desperately poor be allowed to starve because some of them make poor choices.

//What a second.  I though right-wingers wanted people to have guns.  ;-)
 
2013-03-04 09:47:26 AM  

Angry Monkey: 2/10
points deducted for using Reagan-era welfare queen propaganda


Because none of what I said is true. I see the welfare mentality all the time. Parents teach the kids how to keep getting a handout because there are no jobs.

I know a welfare mom that is a stripper on the side. She makes hundreds a day in unreported income and still gets free food on the card. She is by no means living easy though, because she spends most of her money on drugs. So please tell me again how I am just trolling.
 
2013-03-04 09:47:42 AM  

rustypouch: So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?


Duh, they'll go pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get jobs*!

/*as hookers
 
2013-03-04 09:47:46 AM  

rustypouch: There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?


They could get, you know... jobs.

/Naw
 
2013-03-04 09:49:50 AM  

Mimic_Octopus: spickus: This has gone on since the start of the program and will likely never stop. Perhaps your benefits are too generous.

to be clear, i get the groceries, i give the cash.  lots of times it is not for them to buy beer (sometimes it is) but to cover monthly transit passes to facilitate looking for work, which is almost impossible while unemployed with no resources and no free transit for poor. a monthly pass here costs about a week of someone's unemployment, so 25% month, you can't make rent and be able to go to interviews without the scam...


My mistake, their benefits are too generous.  I understand your point but food stamps are for food and not transit or beer.


/ I'd stop admitting to felonious behavior on the internet.
 
2013-03-04 09:50:32 AM  

rustypouch: clane: and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.

There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?


They will obviously all stop any drugs and alcohol they are doing, find a job at once, and become moral citizens. They can obviously work their way out of their subhuman state by working a minimum wage job 60 hours a week whilst simultaneously filling in the holes of their chronically undernourished children's education left by public schools.
 
2013-03-04 09:51:17 AM  
Massachusetts

The state's embattled welfare chief was forced to step down yesterday in the wake of a shocking internal report that found that a staggering 47,000 families receiving taxpayer-funded benefits are unaccounted for - and nearly $30 million in food stamp money went to recipients who were not eligible.   The shocking report, released to the Herald last night, found that the Department of Transitional Assistance has lost track of 47,087 households on welfare - or one out of 10 of the total 478,000 who received DTA mailings.  The welfare department also admitted that it overpaid federal food stamp recipients by a whopping $27.8 million since 2010.
and the Governor Deval Patrick's response?  Why, raise taxes, of course.  Because the answer is always raise taxes.
 
2013-03-04 09:51:29 AM  

fozziewazzi: bdub77: Guns? Made in America.
Booze? Made in America (mostly).
Porn? Made in America (mostly).

OMG my tax payer dollars are profiting ventures in the United States, which feeds back into the local and national economy? Unfathomable! This must end! This money could be used to fund tax exemptions for countries that offshore jobs!

So what you're saying is that EBT for porn isn't bad, as long as it isn't used for Russian, Czech and Japanese porn?


It depends. Was the Russian porn filmed here in the US by the Russian mob? If so...job creation!
 
2013-03-04 09:53:06 AM  

spickus: Mimic_Octopus: spickus: This has gone on since the start of the program and will likely never stop. Perhaps your benefits are too generous.

to be clear, i get the groceries, i give the cash.  lots of times it is not for them to buy beer (sometimes it is) but to cover monthly transit passes to facilitate looking for work, which is almost impossible while unemployed with no resources and no free transit for poor. a monthly pass here costs about a week of someone's unemployment, so 25% month, you can't make rent and be able to go to interviews without the scam...

My mistake, their benefits are too generous.  I understand your point but food stamps are for food and not transit or beer.


/ I'd stop admitting to felonious behavior on the internet.


is there some oath i clicked signing up here that said my posts were actually true ?  does anyone really believe anything someone posts on random message boards ? can you prosecute based on that ? well, shiat.
 
2013-03-04 09:54:49 AM  
1)Welfare fraud is a problem and one that should be addressed in a sensible manner. Preferably with a solution that doesn't cost more than the fraud does.

2)Welfare fraud and welfare in general are not in any way even close to any order of magnitude that would have any noticeable effect on the debt.
 
2013-03-04 09:57:18 AM  
vudukungfu : But mostly in only one size.

TRUE!

factoryconnection: Oh, and said women come in all sorts of colors Cadillacs.  FTFY.  We all know what you meant.
 ALSO TRUE!


/You fellas've won a genuine cement bicycle.  Next round, play for the all-expense-paid trip trip to Coney Island!
 
2013-03-04 10:00:08 AM  
clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.

rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?


clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.
images.sodahead.com
 
2013-03-04 10:01:49 AM  
Mimic_Octopus:  In oregon I see people ring up a whole cart and then pay what they can on card and the beer and smokes in cash. why the hell are these idiots not capable ? Sounds like bribes to keep the money flowing from taxpayers to businesses

Same in MI.
 
2013-03-04 10:02:00 AM  

Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?


An awesome way for banks to extort more money from 'da poors'.
 
2013-03-04 10:02:28 AM  

bdub77: They will obviously all stop any drugs and alcohol they are doing, find a job at once, and become moral citizens. They can obviously work their way out of their subhuman state by working a minimum wage job 60 hours a week whilst simultaneously filling in the holes of their chronically undernourished children's education left by public schools.


... or we can let them leech off Society, and breed more well-nourished little brats, so the cycle can continue unto the next generation.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-04 10:06:16 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: We obviously need to stop helping poor people and raise their taxes instead.  That'll teach them.


No, this is why people should be made to work and then have gov't add benefits over and above what they make.

People need to see the reward/benefit to working.
 
2013-03-04 10:08:31 AM  

fredklein: rustypouch: There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

They could get, you know... jobs.

/Naw


Genius! Why don't they just do that? Why didn't anyone think of that before?

I'm sure all of them are just lazy, and none of the 7.9% of the employed workforce are out looking.

Let's say all the vacant jobs in the US were filled. About 3 million of them. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50134943n&tag=contentMain;cbsC a rousel

That leaves 44 million people. What about them?
 
2013-03-04 10:09:13 AM  

fredklein: bdub77: They will obviously all stop any drugs and alcohol they are doing, find a job at once, and become moral citizens. They can obviously work their way out of their subhuman state by working a minimum wage job 60 hours a week whilst simultaneously filling in the holes of their chronically undernourished children's education left by public schools.

... or we can let them leech off Society, and breed more well-nourished little brats, so the cycle can continue unto the next generation.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 473x351]


Well we let People like You breed, so it's not like We're making the World any smarter anyway now are We?

www.tinalicious.com
 
2013-03-04 10:10:24 AM  
Guns, porn, and booze are basic human rights.  In fact, someone else should be paying for me to have those things.  Someone rich who needs to pay his fair share.

You're not racist, are you?  Give me my free guns, porn, and booze.  I deserve it.
 
2013-03-04 10:10:31 AM  

fredklein: rustypouch: There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

They could get, you know... jobs.

/Naw


1) Roight, guv.  They can go work for Walmart.  And still end up needing a handout.
2) The economy's in the crapper and it's B. Hussein Osama's fault.
 
2013-03-04 10:11:01 AM  

fozziewazzi: So what you're saying is that EBT for porn isn't bad, as long as it isn't used for Russian, Czech and Japanese porn?


When I watch bukkake I make sure its American Bukkake
 
2013-03-04 10:12:35 AM  

Mimic_Octopus: can you prosecute based on that ? well, shiat.


No, probably not.

Mimic_Octopus: is there some oath i clicked signing up here that said my posts were actually true ?  does anyone really believe anything someone posts on random message boards ?


So are you a liar or a felon?

;)
 
2013-03-04 10:14:05 AM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: fozziewazzi: So what you're saying is that EBT for porn isn't bad, as long as it isn't used for Russian, Czech and Japanese porn?

When I watch bukkake I make sure its American Bukkake


I feel like that should be the name of a cable TV show.
 
2013-03-04 10:15:44 AM  
The guns thing really makes sense from a pure economics perspective.

1) Use EBT to trade in for cash.
2) Use cash to buy guns.
3) Use guns to get more cash.
4) Profit!
 
2013-03-04 10:16:55 AM  

Raider_dad: Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?

Electronic Benefits Transfer.

food stamps on a card.


We should go back to government cheese.  Yes, food products in a white box simply labeled with what is inside and required ingrediant labels.  Like the white box containing cheese or the bag that simply says: rice.  If you want or need these foods you have to come and pick them up from the government office.  There is no reason to give anyone cash for food.
 
2013-03-04 10:19:56 AM  

clane: clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.
[images.sodahead.com image 350x261]


Yay, misleading graphs that ignore actual causes of things.
 
2013-03-04 10:20:18 AM  

bdub77: MyKingdomForYourHorse: fozziewazzi: So what you're saying is that EBT for porn isn't bad, as long as it isn't used for Russian, Czech and Japanese porn?

When I watch bukkake I make sure its American Bukkake

I feel like that should be the name of a cable TV show.


Shame you didn't say network, NBC could use anything right now to lift them out of the slump.
 
2013-03-04 10:20:21 AM  

clane: clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.
[images.sodahead.com image 350x261]


I don't like politics but as an analyst I always hate to see graphs distorted to suit one thing. First the height of the bar under Obama should be under double the height of bar under Bush. But the Y-axis conveniently doesn't start from zero. Next the data needs to be superimposed with unemployment, economy, average family income, population etc over time. Even if your point was valid, use of this graph totally invalidates your point.
 
2013-03-04 10:21:19 AM  

The Muthaship: They do not.  They use it for staples, and only until they get back on their feet.  You shut up, meany!


This.

/readies popcorn
 
2013-03-04 10:22:14 AM  

clane: and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]


Does the republican version say:  Work Harder: a Romney needs a new summer home.
 
2013-03-04 10:25:03 AM  
My FSA can handle this quite easily.  Leave it to Massachusetts government to go with the lowest bidder for software development for this work (or at least have not completed a requirements document for the software development).
 
2013-03-04 10:25:41 AM  

sodomizer: And this is why the USA is circling the drain, in debt up to its eyebrows. When you buy votes with EBT, you get corruption at every level and an intractable debt problem.

Liberalism is a mental disorder caused by self-pity.


No.

This is why the USA is circling the drain, in debt up to its eyebrows. When you buy votes with business subsidies and private military contracts, you get corruption at every level and an intractable debt problem.

Conservatism is a mental disorder caused by bed wetting fear.
 
2013-03-04 10:29:05 AM  

Fukuzawa: The agency also claimed that a system that can discriminate between items doesn't exist.

Absolute nonsense, as is most of the article. As someone who has EBT and lives in NJ, every grocery store I've been to knows exactly what is and isn't purchasable with foodstamps. If I have some groceries and say things like mouth wash and soap, it all goes as one purchase, I swipe EBT, EBT pays for all the food stuff and specifically not the things that aren't food, and I can pay with any of the other standard means (cash, credit, debit) for the non food items. No human makes the call, the system knows what is and isn't purchasable.

As someone who actually uses this program, nothing in this article actually meshes with my experience. But maybe NJ is the one state where it's working as intended?

/My anecdote IS DATA
//Pose in threatening poor person posture


I've also used the program. Everything is coded as allowed or not allowed. In my state only "non-prepared" foods are allowed, so you can't buy any hot foods at 7-11, but you can buy the frozen burrito and then nuke it after purchase.

If you have a mix of food and non-food items in your purchase, you swipe the EBT card first, it takes the total of food items and leaves a balance for anything else which can be paid in cash/credit/etc.

The thing that always bothered me about the program were all the items that were counted as "food" items. IMHO there's no reason for a Slurpee to be purchasable with food stamps. Hell, soda (especially fountain drinks) and other items with negligible nutritional value shouldn't be allowed.

For that matter, it wouldn't have bothered me one bit if the card had been limited to milk, eggs, bread, cheese (real cheese, not string cheese snacks) and sugar, flour, baking powder etc. that can be used to bake. Oh, and meat.

All the processed foods like hot pockets and frozen pizza were nice to have every once in a while, but it always made me cringe when the person in front of me at the register used food stamps to purchase 15 frozen pizzas, a few pints of Ben and Jerry's, couple dozen donuts, half a dozen bags of doritos, and 10 two-liter bottles of soda then paid cash for 3 cases of beer and a two cartons of cigarettes.

/wife went to work part time and her income disqualified us
//was a net LOSS for her to work since she didn't make as much after day care as they gave us for food
///still very happy to not be using them anymore
 
2013-03-04 10:29:48 AM  

bdub77: Well we let People like You breed


Yeah, someone needs to work to pay taxes.
 
2013-03-04 10:32:01 AM  

clane: clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.


Well then, maybe the farking " job creators" should create some farking jobs...
 
2013-03-04 10:33:03 AM  

manimal2878: clane: and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

Does the republican version say:  Work Harder: a Romney needs a new summer home.


step away from the liberal kool aid


twighlightslastgleaming.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-04 10:35:11 AM  

fredklein: bdub77: Well we let People like You breed

Yeah, someone needs to work to pay taxes.


Well in your little world, that makes you a chump, apparently. Obviously the low income people have it much better as they are idling sitting around firing their guns in the air while drinking booze and masturbating. You could always learn how to suck on the government teat and become one yourself. You know, because it's such an awesome lifestyle.
 
2013-03-04 10:39:14 AM  

clane: manimal2878: clane: and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

Does the republican version say:  Work Harder: a Romney needs a new summer home.

step away from the liberal kool aid


[twighlightslastgleaming.files.wordpress.com image 500x416]


Irrelevant to the point.
 
2013-03-04 10:40:13 AM  

manimal2878: Raider_dad: Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?

Electronic Benefits Transfer.

food stamps on a card.

We should go back to government cheese.  Yes, food products in a white box simply labeled with what is inside and required ingrediant labels.  Like the white box containing cheese or the bag that simply says: rice.  If you want or need these foods you have to come and pick them up from the government office.  There is no reason to give anyone cash for food.


Having used the program I wouldn't have been opposed to this type of system. Picking up a set quantity of staples wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. I'm afraid the costs of such a program would be far greater than the current system however, and I don't want to use any more of my taxes than possible with such a system.

I've worked retail, and logistics are where the majority of costs are incurred. Letting the private sector leverage existing infrastructure to handle the logistics of distributing government assistance makes sense.

Perhaps the food stamps program should be handled like WIC, where you get vouchers for certain brands (whatever's cheapest, generally) with specific quantities of food.

For example, one WIC purchase might be 32 oz. of juice (actual juice, not fruit punch), 3 loaves of bread, 2 gallons of milk, and 3 pounds of fruits and vegetables.

I wouldn't have had any issues with that system when we were using the food stamps program.
 
2013-03-04 10:42:05 AM  
As evil as the Welfare State is (victimizing both the payer and the payee, and guaranteeing a permanent underclass), the amount of money involved is actually fairly small compared to the 18,000 other ways that the US government rips people off, subsidizes waste, wrecks the economy and generally enslaves all of us.

Endless subsidies, import/export restrictions, price-fixing, restricting competition in all-important industries like energy, communication and transportation.  And of course, the absolute worst, No. 1, all-time, Mother of All Screwgies -- the banking cartel.

Giving some booze and porn to the people living in state-sponsored ghettos is chicken feed compared to these.
 
2013-03-04 10:42:23 AM  

clane: clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.
[images.sodahead.com image 350x261]


Wow.  What a dishonest graph.  Why does it start at 20 million instead of zero?  If the graph were honest at all Obama's bar would only be twice as tall as the other bars assuming the numbers are accurate.

If you post things like this I would assume you are not a credible person to listen to.
 
2013-03-04 10:43:26 AM  
BillCo: "Are you OK with this?"

I am.  (As far as waste of my tax dollars goes; I don't live in MA so the article doesn't apply directly.)
But people doing this, or selling EBT-purchased groceries for cash, or selling old-school-style food stamps directly, is as inevitable as any corporate tax dodge.
Bad actors exist.  You have some auditing and enforcement, but that becomes quickly self defeating because the overwhelming majority of people are not bad actors and ratcheting down costs more than letting it go.

But the world ain't perfect.  This is better than the alternative.  And I ain't got enough time in the day or rage in my tank to get upset about every hypothetical bad apple.
Particularly those who only have a particular grift made available to them, because they live in the absolute worst of circumstances.

/ lobbying and corporate welfare costs us *far* more money than all the "lucky duckies", "young bucks" and "welfare queens" people can invent.
 
2013-03-04 10:44:28 AM  

manimal2878: If the graph were honest at all Obama's bar would only be twice as tall as the other bars


Oh.  Well, carry on I suppose.....
 
2013-03-04 10:44:53 AM  

manimal2878: Raider_dad: Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?

Electronic Benefits Transfer.

food stamps on a card.

We should go back to government cheese.  Yes, food products in a white box simply labeled with what is inside and required ingrediant labels.  Like the white box containing cheese or the bag that simply says: rice.  If you want or need these foods you have to come and pick them up from the government office.  There is no reason to give anyone cash for food.


Yeah. We could also fix the wild horse overpopulation problem at the same time.
 
2013-03-04 10:45:42 AM  

push3r: manimal2878: Raider_dad: Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?

Electronic Benefits Transfer.

food stamps on a card.

We should go back to government cheese.  Yes, food products in a white box simply labeled with what is inside and required ingrediant labels.  Like the white box containing cheese or the bag that simply says: rice.  If you want or need these foods you have to come and pick them up from the government office.  There is no reason to give anyone cash for food.

Having used the program I wouldn't have been opposed to this type of system. Picking up a set quantity of staples wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. I'm afraid the costs of such a program would be far greater than the current system however, and I don't want to use any more of my taxes than possible with such a system.

I've worked retail, and logistics are where the majority of costs are incurred. Letting the private sector leverage existing infrastructure to handle the logistics of distributing government assistance makes sense.

Perhaps the food stamps program should be handled like WIC, where you get vouchers for certain brands (whatever's cheapest, generally) with specific quantities of food.

For example, one WIC purchase might be 32 oz. of juice (actual juice, not fruit punch), 3 loaves of bread, 2 gallons of milk, and 3 pounds of fruits and vegetables.

I wouldn't have had any issues with that system when we were using the food stamps program.


That could work too.  It just seems insane to me that these cards can be used to purchase things they are not intended for.  With scanning and product coding it should be fairly easy to limit what the cards can be used for.
 
2013-03-04 10:47:54 AM  
EBT aren't just used for welfare and food-stamps.

Soldiers in some states get their disability money on state issued EBT cards. Are you going to deny people who got wounded defending our country access to alcohol and porn?

People who went through the State to get child-support from their dead-beat sperm or egg donor will also get their child-support money in the form of state issued EBT cards meaning that some of those people you scoff at buying alcohol and porn with EBT cards might not be using any tax-payer money what so ever.

I'm not saying that people who are on welfare/food stamps aren't beating the system, that's human nature to try to get something for nothing. I'm just curious when some report says 50% of EBT users are buying something other then food and necessities, if those figures actually break down to where the money is actually coming from.
 
2013-03-04 10:49:01 AM  

The Muthaship: manimal2878: If the graph were honest at all Obama's bar would only be twice as tall as the other bars

Oh.  Well, carry on I suppose.....


If you want to make a point that welfare has doubled by whatever measure, then state it honestly.  That graph is clearly distorted and makes it appear the spending is 5x greater under Obama.  Doing such a thing makes me question that the numbers are even double to begin with because they are probably equally distorted to begin with.  Thus the whole argument whether true or not has no credibility.
 
2013-03-04 10:49:42 AM  

dennysgod: Are you going to deny people who got wounded defending our country access to alcohol and porn?


Yes.
 
2013-03-04 10:53:08 AM  

Wrencher: clane:and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.

Well then, maybe the farking " job creators" should create some farking jobs...


When Democrats are in power they make more and more and more laws regulating and restricting and taxing that prevent business

[] SUBWAY Founder Slams Regulations: 'If I Started Today, SUBWAY Would Not Exist'...
[] Home Depot Founder: I Couldn't Start Home Depot Today
[] Staples founder: Obama doesn't get it
[] Too many rules are killing America | Fox News
 
2013-03-04 10:53:39 AM  

dennysgod: EBT aren't just used for welfare and food-stamps.

Soldiers in some states get their disability money on state issued EBT cards. Are you going to deny people who got wounded defending our country access to alcohol and porn?

People who went through the State to get child-support from their dead-beat sperm or egg donor will also get their child-support money in the form of state issued EBT cards meaning that some of those people you scoff at buying alcohol and porn with EBT cards might not be using any tax-payer money what so ever.

I'm not saying that people who are on welfare/food stamps aren't beating the system, that's human nature to try to get something for nothing. I'm just curious when some report says 50% of EBT users are buying something other then food and necessities, if those figures actually break down to where the money is actually coming from.


Social Security also comes on an EBT now too. Complete with bank charges if you want any cash.
 
2013-03-04 10:54:43 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Tat'dGreaser: Because People in power are Stupid: Somehow the recipients are to blame for this and not the wildly incompetent  FIS.

Yea if I found out I could use it to buy guns, booze and porn then I'd go buck wild.

But why not guns? They can use them to fish.


Or to defend themselves or hunt. The poor are more likely to need a firearm to protect them than the more affluent. It is a right. There is nothing wrong with buying a gun on EBT. It is no worse than buying a gun with cash while also receiving EBT, or reduced lunch cost for your kids in school, or tax breaks for your 3 children. It just isn't necessarily something to be proud of.
 
2013-03-04 10:55:54 AM  

bdub77: fredklein: bdub77: Well we let People like You breed

Yeah, someone needs to work to pay taxes.

Well in your little world, that makes you a chump, apparently. Obviously the low income people have it much better as they are idling sitting around firing their guns in the air while drinking booze and masturbating. You could always learn how to suck on the government teat and become one yourself. You know, because it's such an awesome lifestyle.


Bad straw-man. Nobody wants to be like those people. I just want them to take a less of my money.
 
2013-03-04 10:59:23 AM  

manimal2878: That could work too.  It just seems insane to me that these cards can be used to purchase things they are not intended for.  With scanning and product coding it should be fairly easy to limit what the cards can be used for.


That's the biggest issue and yes people shouldn't abuse the card but there are always going to be someone that abuses the system so it's the system's job to limit the abuse to a level they find acceptable.
 
2013-03-04 11:01:01 AM  

bdub77: Well in your little world, that makes you a chump, apparently. Obviously the low income people have it much better as they are idling sitting around firing their guns in the air while drinking booze and masturbating. You could always learn how to suck on the government teat and become one yourself. You know, because it's such an awesome lifestyle.


1) I have too much pride. Others evidently have none.

2) "Low income"? Once you add everything up, they make well over minimum wage. (Isn't that the argument people use? If they get a min wage job, they'll actually have LESS money?) That makes the min wagers the "low incomers" in that comparison.

3) It must be awesome, or people would, you know, GET OFF IT.
 
2013-03-04 11:03:44 AM  

bdub77: Well in your little world, that makes you a chump, apparently.


Yup. Straight, white, middle aged male here.
 
2013-03-04 11:05:01 AM  

clane: When Democrats are in power they make more and more and more laws regulating and restricting and taxing that prevent business

[] SUBWAY Founder Slams Regulations: 'If I Started Today, SUBWAY Would Not Exist'...
[] Home Depot Founder: I Couldn't Start Home Depot Today
[] Staples founder: Obama doesn't get it
[] Too many rules are killing America | Fox News


So rich people don't like the guy who wants to increase their tax rates? That's some downright hard hitting investigation right there.
 
2013-03-04 11:07:09 AM  

TNel: manimal2878: That could work too.  It just seems insane to me that these cards can be used to purchase things they are not intended for.  With scanning and product coding it should be fairly easy to limit what the cards can be used for.

That's the biggest issue and yes people shouldn't abuse the card but there are always going to be someone that abuses the system so it's the system's job to limit the abuse to a level they find acceptable.


Agreed.  I would rather there be some abuse of a system, than no system to help people at all.  That said, when abuse is found it should be punished.
 
2013-03-04 11:07:10 AM  

fredklein: 1) I have too much pride. Others evidently have none.

2) "Low income"? Once you add everything up, they make well over minimum wage. (Isn't that the argument people use? If they get a min wage job, they'll actually have LESS money?) That makes the min wagers the "low incomers" in that comparison.

3) It must be awesome, or people would, you know, GET OFF IT.


You really have no idea how it is to actually "live" off of welfare.  I put that in quotes because it's not the rainbows and unicorns you republicans keep talking about.  I lived off of it for a few years when I was a teenager with my parents and it freaking SUCKED.  The looks you got when you used the stamps, the comments from kids when you use the special green token to get a free meal at school.

You barely get enough to make a passable meal every day.  If it wasn't for my mom being in college and maxing her student loans each semester I'm not sure how else you could really get by.  Keep screaming about those welfare queens, it amazes me how much the Republicans love the 1%.  1% of the wealth hoarders and the 1% of welfare that scam the system.
 
2013-03-04 11:07:35 AM  

The Muthaship: mike_d85: I had a freind that paid his rent in food stamp purchases. He was a single man getting stamps for a family of 4. Not a deadbeat, just a clerical error thief.

Word.


Wow, you must be proud.  Your friend sounds like a real pillar of society.
 
2013-03-04 11:08:26 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Your friend sounds like a real pillar of society


Not my friend!
 
2013-03-04 11:09:32 AM  

Egoy3k: clane: When Democrats are in power they make more and more and more laws regulating and restricting and taxing that prevent business

[] SUBWAY Founder Slams Regulations: 'If I Started Today, SUBWAY Would Not Exist'...
[] Home Depot Founder: I Couldn't Start Home Depot Today
[] Staples founder: Obama doesn't get it
[] Too many rules are killing America | Fox News

So rich people don't like the guy who wants to increase their tax rates? That's some downright hard hitting investigation right there.


Not too mention the tons of new business that have opened under Obama and have somehow figured out ways to make money while these guys admittedly are just not smart enough to do so.
 
2013-03-04 11:09:36 AM  

clane: When Democrats are in power they make more and more and more laws regulating and restricting and taxing that prevent business

[] SUBWAY Founder Slams Regulations: 'If I Started Today, SUBWAY Would Not Exist'...
[] Home Depot Founder: I Couldn't Start Home Depot Today
[] Staples founder: Obama doesn't get it
[] Too many rules are killing America | Fox News


1. shiatty food we can do without, and fark Jared btw
2. Overpriced and often inferior to locally sourced hardware
3. shiatty selection, crappy worse than IKEA furniture, and double the price on ink and toner
4. To be fair, I think we're doing a fine job killing ourselves by getting fat and lazy
 
2013-03-04 11:13:48 AM  

sodomizer: And this is why the USA is circling the drain, in debt up to its eyebrows. When you buy votes with EBT, you get corruption at every level and an intractable debt problem.

Liberalism is a mental disorder caused by self-pity.


This is a perfect example of what conservatives and republicans believe and is without a doubt the number one reason I would gladly start a civil war against all of them. It's way past reasoning at this point. I'm tired and through listening to them. Go make your own country and take your gay issues, gun issues, abortion issues, and black people issues there. Get all of your little friends together and go talk about all that shiat THERE.
 
2013-03-04 11:17:24 AM  

Gifted Many Few: Angry Monkey: 2/10
points deducted for using Reagan-era welfare queen propaganda

Because none of what I said is true. I see the welfare mentality all the time. Parents teach the kids how to keep getting a handout because there are no jobs.

I know a welfare mom that is a stripper on the side. She makes hundreds a day in unreported income and still gets free food on the card. She is by no means living easy though, because she spends most of her money on drugs. So please tell me again how I am just trolling.


one of my sisters is a school teacher in a high poverty area of NY state. most folks are on some program or another. she can tell you about the many kids who show up in shiny new Escalades with different outfits every day, color matched head to toe including new expensive sneakers, jackets and bling. their parents make a lot of money that is unreported income. you can imagine it's a little difficult trying to get these kids to understand the value of an education.

/ crime does pay
 
2013-03-04 11:20:15 AM  
I think I'm more OK with EBT recipients buying guns and booze with the funds than I am the governments use of "legitimate" funds to buy guns and ammo.
 
2013-03-04 11:22:18 AM  
Here's something that this thread has taught me: all recipients of food aid are unemployed.  That is a new one.
 
2013-03-04 11:23:11 AM  

clane: Wrencher: clane:and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.

Well then, maybe the farking " job creators" should create some farking jobs...

When Democrats are in power they make more and more and more laws regulating and restricting and taxing that prevent business

[] SUBWAY Founder Slams Regulations: 'If I Started Today, SUBWAY Would Not Exist'...
[] Home Depot Founder: I Couldn't Start Home Depot Today
[] Staples founder: Obama doesn't get it
[] Too many rules are killing America | Fox News


Using Fox Entertainment to make your point will just get you laughed at by any moderately intelligent/informed person.
 
2013-03-04 11:25:02 AM  
RembrandtQEinstein: Government assistance should require implantable or injectable birth control.

I have no problem supporting someone who is incapable of supporting themselves, cradle to grave. I have many problems with allowing people who can't support themselves to procreate.

Wow.  Gesetz zur Verhütung erbkranken Nachwuchses  much?
 
2013-03-04 11:32:06 AM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: clane: When Democrats are in power they make more and more and more laws regulating and restricting and taxing that prevent business

[] SUBWAY Founder Slams Regulations: 'If I Started Today, SUBWAY Would Not Exist'...
[] Home Depot Founder: I Couldn't Start Home Depot Today
[] Staples founder: Obama doesn't get it
[] Too many rules are killing America | Fox News

1. shiatty food we can do without, and fark Jared btw
2. Overpriced and often inferior to locally sourced hardware
3. shiatty selection, crappy worse than IKEA furniture, and double the price on ink and toner
4. To be fair, I think we're doing a fine job killing ourselves by getting fat and lazy


yea, stick it to the man!
images.sodahead.com
 
2013-03-04 11:37:21 AM  
clane: When Democrats are in power they make more and more and more laws regulating and restricting and taxing that prevent business

[] SUBWAY Founder Slams Regulations: 'If I Started Today, SUBWAY Would Not Exist'...
[] Home Depot Founder: I Couldn't Start Home Depot Today
[] Staples founder: Obama doesn't get it
[] Too many rules are killing America | Fox News


Egoy3k:
So rich people don't like the guy who wants to increase their tax rates? That's some downright hard hitting investigation right there.

clane:
wwwhhoooooooooooooooooshhhhhhhh... that's the sound of my point flying over your head
 
2013-03-04 11:38:06 AM  

fredklein: bdub77: Well in your little world, that makes you a chump, apparently.

Yup. Straight, white, middle aged male here.


Yeah the whole world is just completely against you. After all, you think your sexual orientation has anything to do with it.

Pride is obviously for chumps.

People get off of welfare because they are given a chance - that means better education, better nutrition, access to healthcare, and employment opportunities. The poverty cycle is not an overnight fix either, fixing problems can take decades even if done perfectly right, because it simply takes time. And even with that, you will ALWAYS have people who simply don't want a 'job' for whom the expense of caring for this person will always be a taxpayer expense, whether that expense is funded by the government or not. Prison costs plenty to taxpayers, whether private or public, as does the costs of medical care. And I suppose if you want to be completely ruthless, if we simply let them die someone ultimately has to pick up their corpse and drop them into a ditch somewhere. Seems like a pretty stupid thing to just let people die though because we don't want to pay a few hundred in taxes each year. Then again I'm an actual human being.

And as for your minimum wage argument, this is exactly why wage equality is needed. Because trust me, in this day and age whatever job you are doing can be done by someone more qualified and more skilled than you for less money, I don't care if you're a doctor, lawyer, architect, mechanical engineer, whatever. You (and most of us living in a first world country) should feel lucky to have a job. The only reason most of us still have jobs is because the people above us are either more incompetent than us or perhaps not as evil as we think them. Or perhaps they know if they make it awful enough that we'll rebel.

My wife works for a very large Fortune 500 company where she deals with executives here in the US and sets annual budgets smaller and smaller each year, and the jobs of the executives in this country is basically to save as many of their own people as they can.
 
2013-03-04 11:40:21 AM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: sodomizer: Liberalism is a mental disorder caused by self-pity.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x224]


Yes, serious

As serious as watching your nation go down the drain
 
2013-03-04 11:41:51 AM  
manimal2878:
Conservatism is a mental disorder caused by bed wetting fear.

I thought being a conservative meant that you recognize that "Free Candy" was not a sound economic policy.
 
2013-03-04 11:44:45 AM  
The stupidest part of the welfare argument is that welfare is a pretty damn small part of our problems with government waste. The military spending on the other hand is asinine. 700 billion dollars a year? That is f*cking insane. Giving money to some person who may or may not make a living selling drugs pales in comparison to the criminals making 'bling' by selling arms at the top of the military industrial complex.

Start there.
 
2013-03-04 11:47:42 AM  

The Muthaship: Cold_Sassy: Your friend sounds like a real pillar of society

Not my friend!


I know, I was joining you in trashing mike_d85

This quote feature needs a little tweaking, so it is more clear who said what.
 
2013-03-04 11:48:22 AM  

Cold_Sassy: The Muthaship: Cold_Sassy: Your friend sounds like a real pillar of society

Not my friend!

I know, I was joining you in trashing mike_d85

This quote feature needs a little tweaking, so it is more clear who said what.


Well, okay then.
 
2013-03-04 11:48:47 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: We obviously need to stop helping poor people and raise their taxes instead.  That'll teach them.


A few people misuse their guns, so we need to crack down on gun ownership for everybody. I fail to see how we shouldn't drastically overhaul the welfare system for the same reason.

We learned it from you, dad.
 
2013-03-04 11:52:17 AM  
Liberalism and Conservatism are both mental disorders that cause the sufferers to deny obvious realities and denies them the ability of independent thought. The World is full of Lemmings.
 
2013-03-04 11:52:49 AM  

spickus: Because People in power are Stupid: Except that there should be a system in place so that the cards can't be used to buy something like liquor.


There is in every other state. What the fark is Massachusetts problem? The abuse of the cash portion of the card will never go away.


IN CA they can use the cash side (debit) for whatever the fark they want. One of my side jobs is nights at a grocery. They do this shiat all night long at the first of the month....like say....last weekend. Load up on the lottery so they can give back that government money to pay off some school bond or some shiat, then smokes, beer, and anything BUT a goddamn loaf of bread and peanut butter and milk.

Then they hit the cash side of EBT and go buy their weed and heroin with it. OR worse, sell anything with a ton of sugar in it when they're out of eyesight. I watch them do that shiat in he parking lot. Fast forward 8 hours and now they're all tweaked out and one of their family members that's taking care of their kids comes in yelling at me I need to deny this person or that from using EBT as debit as the cash is just going in a vein.

And legally, I can't do shiat about it. It's their free money, and goddamit if you tell a drunk or a tweeker NO.

/that was last week before all their cards reloaded
//true story
///not cool.
 
2013-03-04 12:02:10 PM  

ringersol: But people doing this, or selling EBT-purchased groceries for cash, or selling old-school-style food stamps directly, is as inevitable as any corporate tax dodge.
Bad actors exist.  You have some auditing and enforcement, but that becomes quickly self defeating because the overwhelming majority of people are not bad actors and ratcheting down costs more than letting it go.

But the world ain't perfect.  This is better than the alternative.  And I ain't got enough time in the day or rage in my tank to get upset about every hypothetical bad apple.
Particularly those who only have a particular grift made available to them, because they live in the absolute worst of circumstances.

/ lobbying and corporate welfare costs us *far* more money than all the "lucky duckies", "young bucks" and "welfare queens" people can invent.


Holy crap this.  Well said.
 
2013-03-04 12:02:35 PM  

bdub77: The stupidest part of the welfare argument is that welfare is a pretty damn small part of our problems with government waste. The military spending on the other hand is asinine. 700 billion dollars a year? That is f*cking insane. Giving money to some person who may or may not make a living selling drugs pales in comparison to the criminals making 'bling' by selling arms at the top of the military industrial complex.

Start there.


You do realize that the military money goes directly right back into local economies right? It doesn't go "POOF" and you never see it again. It goes back to military families, contractors, builders, ancillary personnel and companies, all with families, kids, mortgages, grocery lists, beer, boats, college tuition...all sorts of shiat. They take that military money and put it back into the economy. Hell one of them might even take that E-6 pay and buy a Fark sub.  The military is just another temporary holding point of that money.

What comes around, goes around. Now if you're sending 100 million dollar planes to other countries for defense that turn on you later, with your own shiat, then oh hell yes, I'm with ya on that one.
 
2013-03-04 12:03:21 PM  

GORDON: manimal2878:
Conservatism is a mental disorder caused by bed wetting fear.

I thought being a conservative meant that you recognize that "Free Candy" was not a sound economic policy.


In practice being a conservative means you pay lip service to that concept.  Meanwhile you give plenty of "free candy" away to rich dudes, defense contractors, etc.  just not to those welfare queens and slackers.
 
2013-03-04 12:04:55 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: spickus: Because People in power are Stupid: Except that there should be a system in place so that the cards can't be used to buy something like liquor.


There is in every other state. What the fark is Massachusetts problem? The abuse of the cash portion of the card will never go away.

IN CA they can use the cash side (debit) for whatever the fark they want. One of my side jobs is nights at a grocery. They do this shiat all night long at the first of the month....like say....last weekend. Load up on the lottery so they can give back that government money to pay off some school bond or some shiat, then smokes, beer, and anything BUT a goddamn loaf of bread and peanut butter and milk.

Then they hit the cash side of EBT and go buy their weed and heroin with it. OR worse, sell anything with a ton of sugar in it when they're out of eyesight. I watch them do that shiat in he parking lot. Fast forward 8 hours and now they're all tweaked out and one of their family members that's taking care of their kids comes in yelling at me I need to deny this person or that from using EBT as debit as the cash is just going in a vein.

And legally, I can't do shiat about it. It's their free money, and goddamit if you tell a drunk or a tweeker NO.

/that was last week before all their cards reloaded
//true story
///not cool.



rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-03-04 12:11:19 PM  

clane: clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.


You do know that there are a considerable amount of poor white trash on welfare that would just as soon light their heads on fire than vote for a 'Merica hating, gay Lovin' democrat?
Your oversimplification of issues is amusing though.
 
2013-03-04 12:27:34 PM  

TNel: fanbladesaresharp: spickus: Because People in power are Stupid: Except that there should be a system in place so that the cards can't be used to buy something like liquor.


There is in every other state. What the fark is Massachusetts problem? The abuse of the cash portion of the card will never go away.

IN CA they can use the cash side (debit) for whatever the fark they want. One of my side jobs is nights at a grocery. They do this shiat all night long at the first of the month....like say....last weekend. Load up on the lottery so they can give back that government money to pay off some school bond or some shiat, then smokes, beer, and anything BUT a goddamn loaf of bread and peanut butter and milk.

Then they hit the cash side of EBT and go buy their weed and heroin with it. OR worse, sell anything with a ton of sugar in it when they're out of eyesight. I watch them do that shiat in he parking lot. Fast forward 8 hours and now they're all tweaked out and one of their family members that's taking care of their kids comes in yelling at me I need to deny this person or that from using EBT as debit as the cash is just going in a vein.

And legally, I can't do shiat about it. It's their free money, and goddamit if you tell a drunk or a tweeker NO.

/that was last week before all their cards reloaded
//true story
///not cool.


[rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]


The plural of anecdote? Did I miss something, or would you like me to post pics tonight of just what the fark goes on? My sarcasm meter is fried. Sorry.
 
2013-03-04 12:28:07 PM  

jaybeezey: Marcus Aurelius: We obviously need to stop helping poor people and raise their taxes instead.  That'll teach them.

No, this is why people should be made to work and then have gov't add benefits over and above what they make.

People need to see the reward/benefit to working.


This sounds more sensible....maybe even volunteering locally as jobs can be hard to come by in areas people on assistance live. Seems as though this would benefit everyone....
/would help to reduce the polarization and mistrust the general population has for each other
//sadly the powers that be would never let this fly, we are more easily ruled divided.
///our national identity has been reduced to a sports team like blind allegiance....GO SOX!
 
2013-03-04 12:32:21 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: The plural of anecdote? Did I miss something, or would you like me to post pics tonight of just what the fark goes on? My sarcasm meter is fried. Sorry.


According to you everyone is scamming the system.

westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-04 12:33:47 PM  

manimal2878: sodomizer: And this is why the USA is circling the drain, in debt up to its eyebrows. When you buy votes with EBT, you get corruption at every level and an intractable debt problem.

Liberalism is a mental disorder caused by self-pity.

No.

This is why the USA is circling the drain, in debt up to its eyebrows. When you buy votes with business subsidies and private military contracts, you get corruption at every level and an intractable debt problem.

Conservatism is a mental disorder caused by bed wetting fear.


Conservatism is a mental disease caused by self-righteousness
 
2013-03-04 12:34:35 PM  

factoryconnection: Fukuzawa: As someone who actually uses this program, nothing in this article actually meshes with my experience. But maybe NJ is the one state where it's working as intended?

My medical insurance comes with a FSA card, which prior to some string-tightening used to be usable for OTC medical products.  If you went to, say, a grocer and bought allergy medicine and ibuprofen along with your regular groceries, swiping the FSA card first would allot payment only for those eligible items.  The rest of the groceries wouldn't cause a debit, and you'd pay the rest of your bill normally.

I'm perplexed as to why this article describes such a system as non-existent.


UPC scanners are not commonly used in gun stores, nail salons, or casinos.
 
2013-03-04 12:38:09 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: UPC scanners are not commonly used in gun stores, nail salons, or casinos.


Those are the places that EBT recipients are suspected of using their withdrawn-cash benefits, not the cards themselves.  That's a different discussion point, and one worth addressing, certainly.
 
2013-03-04 12:43:25 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: bdub77: The stupidest part of the welfare argument is that welfare is a pretty damn small part of our problems with government waste. The military spending on the other hand is asinine. 700 billion dollars a year? That is f*cking insane. Giving money to some person who may or may not make a living selling drugs pales in comparison to the criminals making 'bling' by selling arms at the top of the military industrial complex.

Start there.

You do realize that the military money goes directly right back into local economies right? It doesn't go "POOF" and you never see it again. It goes back to military families, contractors, builders, ancillary personnel and companies, all with families, kids, mortgages, grocery lists, beer, boats, college tuition...all sorts of shiat. They take that military money and put it back into the economy. Hell one of them might even take that E-6 pay and buy a Fark sub.  The military is just another temporary holding point of that money.

What comes around, goes around. Now if you're sending 100 million dollar planes to other countries for defense that turn on you later, with your own shiat, then oh hell yes, I'm with ya on that one.


Totally agree. Of course it goes back into local economies. That doesn't mean that it's a good thing. Building a huge infrastructure whose entire purpose is to murder people in other countries is better than using that money for, oh I dunno, public works projects like high speed rail, highways, education, science, space exploration, etc.

We put wayyy too much money into military. The things the military has been good for is funding research into prosthetics and other devices, but then again that's because we sent some poor soul into a backwards ass state with millions of dollars worth of equipment that then gets blown up by an explosive device that costs only $10 because at some point we probably gave the explosive to them in the first place. Now THAT is retarded government waste.
 
2013-03-04 12:44:06 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-04 12:48:10 PM  

factoryconnection: BarkingUnicorn: UPC scanners are not commonly used in gun stores, nail salons, or casinos.

Those are the places that EBT recipients are suspected of using their withdrawn-cash benefits, not the cards themselves.  That's a different discussion point, and one worth addressing, certainly.


Really?!?! That's what this argument is about?  I admit I didn't RTFA and assumed the program has some serious UPC coding errors.  Look if someone gets cash assistance that means they can use that cash for whatever they want.  If you want it regulated make it something other than cash assistance.  You can't complain about spending of money that you give to someone as cash.

If they are swiping the card and it just works then the system needs a better check on where the credit is coming from.  I tried to use my government travel card at the movie theater the one time I was deployed and it was denied (I mean wth it's my per diem money if I want to watch a movie then why not), you can't tell me that they can't lock out the EBT card.
 
2013-03-04 12:49:30 PM  

x-caliber: My FSA can handle this quite easily.  Leave it to Massachusetts government to go with the lowest bidder for software development for this work (or at least have not completed a requirements document for the software development).


What we're talking about wasn't a requirement at the time the software was developed.  The cash benefits on an EBT card can be spent on anything.  It's possible to restrict where cash benefits can be spent, but many purchases simply cannot be checked against a database of prohibited items.  Ever seen a UPC scanner used to ring up a manicure?
 
2013-03-04 12:49:58 PM  

factoryconnection: Fukuzawa: As someone who actually uses this program, nothing in this article actually meshes with my experience. But maybe NJ is the one state where it's working as intended?

My medical insurance comes with a FSA card, which prior to some string-tightening used to be usable for OTC medical products.  If you went to, say, a grocer and bought allergy medicine and ibuprofen along with your regular groceries, swiping the FSA card first would allot payment only for those eligible items.  The rest of the groceries wouldn't cause a debit, and you'd pay the rest of your bill normally.

I'm perplexed as to why this article describes such a system as non-existent.


This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Medical FSA payment systems have the ability to differentiate between eligible and non-eligible items. There is no reason that EBT systems can't do the same. The reason they don't is probably a combination of inertia and incompetence.
 
2013-03-04 12:55:13 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: x-caliber: My FSA can handle this quite easily.  Leave it to Massachusetts government to go with the lowest bidder for software development for this work (or at least have not completed a requirements document for the software development).

What we're talking about wasn't a requirement at the time the software was developed.  The cash benefits on an EBT card can be spent on anything.  It's possible to restrict where cash benefits can be spent, but many purchases simply cannot be checked against a database of prohibited items.  Ever seen a UPC scanner used to ring up a manicure?


It should be fairly straightforward to group businesses into two classes: allowed to accept EBT payments, and not allowed to accept EBT payments.

Grocery stores, pharmacies, and stores that sell necessities: allowed.
Liquor stores, hair/nail salons, strip clubs, adult bookstores: not allowed.

...and so on.

This is something that can be done, it just isn't being done.
 
2013-03-04 12:55:16 PM  
Obviously if they are spending the money on items that aren't essential, they are getting too much money.  I think I see where we can cut some spending and save some money.
 
2013-03-04 12:56:52 PM  
This push to micromanage EBT cash benefits is going to turn out as poorly as voter ID and drug testing welfare applicants.  It will cost the state and businesses a fortune and it will be impossible to measure results.
 
2013-03-04 12:56:56 PM  

TNel: You really have no idea how it is to actually "live" off of welfare. I put that in quotes because it's not the rainbows and unicorns you republicans keep talking about.


I'm not Republican.

I lived off of it for a few years when I was a teenager with my parents and it freaking SUCKED. The looks you got when you used the stamps, the comments from kids when you use the special green token to get a free meal at school.

They changed all that. Now you get a card that you swipe- no more embarrassment producing the Food Stamps.

You barely get enough to make a passable meal every day.

Ha. I know people who get EBT. I know how much they get. But you wouldn't believe me if I told you.
 
2013-03-04 01:00:26 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: This push to micromanage EBT cash benefits is going to turn out as poorly as voter ID and drug testing welfare applicants.  It will cost the state and businesses a fortune and it will be impossible to measure results.


But I thought government waste was the purpose of this exercise. Then after we waste more money 'researching it' we can argue about how there is even more government waste than there was before.
 
2013-03-04 01:02:35 PM  
The loophole ... involves supermarkets, convenience stores and department stores that sell those things as well as EBT-eligible items - but there is no way the state's cash card system can tell the difference.

"The technology that we're using with Xerox allows us to block usage by the store. It does not, at least currently, have the ability to block individual purchases at the store level,"


Then your system sucks. I've used EBT here in Virginia. Ring up everything at the local grocery store (Food Lion, Kroger). Toilet paper? Beer (in theory)? Cat food? None of these are payable with EBT. You use the EBT, it debits the appropriate amount, then tells you your remainder so you can pay cash or credit or whatever.

The rules were: no booze, pet items, hot prepared foods, paper products, etc. Just food. About the only "loophole" was that you could buy a Snickers or a bag of Doritos.

If these stores could do it, then stores there can do it. And if they don't, why are you letting them do business with EBT?

clane: [images.sodahead.com image 350x261]


Misleading graph is misleading. Numbers may be accurate, but when a graph arbitrarily starts it's y-axis at something other than zero, it's intentionally distorting the visual.
 
2013-03-04 01:05:00 PM  

bdub77: The stupidest part of the welfare argument is that welfare is a pretty damn small part of our problems with government waste. The military spending on the other hand is asinine. 700 billion dollars a year? That is f*cking insane. Giving money to some person who may or may not make a living selling drugs pales in comparison to the criminals making 'bling' by selling arms at the top of the military industrial complex.

Start there.


Trouble is EVERYTHING except the military is a pretty damn small...see, you can argue nothing is worth cutting with your rationale and nothing is a problem.
 
2013-03-04 01:12:31 PM  

fredklein: Ha. I know people who get EBT. I know how much they get. But you wouldn't believe me if I told you.


I wouldn't because I have taken the effort and looked up my state's program and inputted dummy information to see what I get.  PA has a very easy online tool (Compass) that lets you know and I believe the max food stamps is $500 a month and you need a lot of kids to get it.  Now to even get Food Stamps you need to make less than $20k a year and have kids.  If you don't have kids you have to make like 15k and then you only get like $150 or something.

Are you confusing SSI, disability as welfare?
 
2013-03-04 01:12:49 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: in Oregon, there is no cash access unless one is over the retirement age.  solved.


Some of us old folks like booze, porn and guns.  And Beavers.

/Heh, Beavers.
//Don't remember what they're for, but remember I like 'em.
 
2013-03-04 01:17:58 PM  
whew...


This thread


Mention the welfare program and watch the furious political masterbation festival begin...

I'm going to back out of here lest i get hit by political bukkake from the laft and the right side...
 
2013-03-04 01:19:13 PM  

bdub77: fredklein: bdub77: Well in your little world, that makes you a chump, apparently.

Yup. Straight, white, middle aged male here.

Yeah the whole world is just completely against you. After all, you think your sexual orientation has anything to do with it.


It's a play on an old joke: "I'm in every majority there is: Straight, white, male, protestant... and there's darn few of us left!"

People get off of welfare because they are given a chance - that means better education,

Why do poor people deserve "better"??

And I suppose if you want to be completely ruthless, if we simply let them die someone ultimately has to pick up their corpse and drop them into a ditch somewhere.

Firstly, I'm okay with that.
Second, it wouldn't be "us" who "let" them die- it'd be "them" who chose to die.

Seems like a pretty stupid thing to just let people die though because we don't want to pay a few hundred in taxes each year. Then again I'm an actual human being.

Implying that people who don't like giving away money aren't. Nice.

I think of the poor in this country the same way I think of the starving in Africa: yes, people are suffering. But it's not my fault. And trying to throw money at it doesn't work. There are plenty of explanations of why that's true. For instance, local farmers cannot compete with 'free', and so stop farming. No local farmers = no local food = even more reliance of handouts. And the same is true here in the USA: if you can either sit on your ass and get enough money to eat and pay bills, OR work a full time job and end up with less money, which do you think people will choose??
 
2013-03-04 01:19:51 PM  
I always thought if you're on food stamps you should be issued a nutritious paste containing all your daily vitamins and minerals necessary for survival and that's what you and your family eat.  Give them some incentive to try and get off of food stamps.  When you're allowed to buy steak and shrimp on some one elses dime, why try and improve your life?
 
2013-03-04 01:20:48 PM  

clane: clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.
[images.sodahead.com image 350x261]


yay, using 20mil as the zero base does not skew that graphic at all
 
2013-03-04 01:22:33 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: bdub77: The stupidest part of the welfare argument is that welfare is a pretty damn small part of our problems with government waste. The military spending on the other hand is asinine. 700 billion dollars a year? That is f*cking insane. Giving money to some person who may or may not make a living selling drugs pales in comparison to the criminals making 'bling' by selling arms at the top of the military industrial complex.

Start there.

Trouble is EVERYTHING except the military is a pretty damn small...see, you can argue nothing is worth cutting with your rationale and nothing is a problem.


No, what you can do is argue that you have higher priorities in cutting defense budgets than to spend all your time and money researching ways to make welfare work better which may or may not actually cost taxpayers more money in the long run. But if you want to make the argument, fine go after both. But put defense higher on the list.

What we really need is a defense transition program that takes defense projects and works on finding applications in private enterprise, thereby moving those projects off of government funds into private funds.

And move some budgets for defense into one-time infrastructure spending on things like construction and the like. For those soldiers you would have let go, give them transition jobs in construction while giving them training in other areas.

Sad truth is that unemployment is going to continue to rise because there aren't enough jobs. Robots are truly taking our jorbs, and those are never coming back until the robopocalypse comes.
 
2013-03-04 01:23:13 PM  

Cybernetic: BarkingUnicorn: x-caliber: My FSA can handle this quite easily.  Leave it to Massachusetts government to go with the lowest bidder for software development for this work (or at least have not completed a requirements document for the software development).

What we're talking about wasn't a requirement at the time the software was developed.  The cash benefits on an EBT card can be spent on anything.  It's possible to restrict where cash benefits can be spent, but many purchases simply cannot be checked against a database of prohibited items.  Ever seen a UPC scanner used to ring up a manicure?

It should be fairly straightforward to group businesses into two classes: allowed to accept EBT payments, and not allowed to accept EBT payments.

Grocery stores, pharmacies, and stores that sell necessities: allowed.
Liquor stores, hair/nail salons, strip clubs, adult bookstores: not allowed.

...and so on.

This is something that can be done, it just isn't being done.


The new law is demanding item-level blocking.  The benefits manager acknowledges that location-level blocking is possible, but says he can't comply with this law.  Even if he could, cash can still be withdrawn at some ATM and spent on anything, anywhere.

I wonder if States can prohibit cash withdrawals on their own.  The ability to get cash benefits in cash may be a federal requirement.

BTW, it's not just States that are pushing this micromanagement.  A new federal law requires them to prohibit use of cash benefits for purchases of liquor, cigarettes, adult entertainment, gambling and guns by 2014 or lose federal money.  That law passed on the strength of a House Ways & Means Committee report that merely cited anecdotes from news media without a single estimate of how often abuse happens or the dollars involved.
 
2013-03-04 01:23:36 PM  

durbnpoisn: 3. There are a great number of assholes that take advantage of point #1 to a ludicrous degree.


No, there isn't. The small number is just highly publicized. Hell, even TFA we are commenting on doesn't say that people are actually abusing the system, just that it's run poorly enough that they could.
 
2013-03-04 01:24:22 PM  

TNel: rlv.zcache.com


The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'... but how many stories do you have to hear before you start thinking there might be something to them??

No, really, how many? Like, a number. Because I'm sure I can find that many. And then you'd have to start taking shiat seriously instead of tossing off cutesie t-shirt one-liners.
 
2013-03-04 01:24:35 PM  
fredklein:

And I suppose if you want to be completely ruthless, if we simply let them die someone ultimately has to pick up their corpse and drop them into a ditch somewhere.

Firstly, I'm okay with that.
Second, it wouldn't be "us" who "let" them die- it'd be "them" who chose to die.


Troll detector went off. Bye bye.
 
2013-03-04 01:26:17 PM  

Rivethead: i.imgur.com


...and therefore (despite this being a thread about EBT), we should totally ignore the problems (mentioned in the article this thread is based on) regarding EBT.
 
2013-03-04 01:29:47 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: The loophole ... involves supermarkets, convenience stores and department stores that sell those things as well as EBT-eligible items - but there is no way the state's cash card system can tell the difference.

"The technology that we're using with Xerox allows us to block usage by the store. It does not, at least currently, have the ability to block individual purchases at the store level,"

Then your system sucks. I've used EBT here in Virginia. Ring up everything at the local grocery store (Food Lion, Kroger). Toilet paper? Beer (in theory)? Cat food? None of these are payable with EBT. You use the EBT, it debits the appropriate amount, then tells you your remainder so you can pay cash or credit or whatever.

The rules were: no booze, pet items, hot prepared foods, paper products, etc. Just food. About the only "loophole" was that you could buy a Snickers or a bag of Doritos.

If these stores could do it, then stores there can do it. And if they don't, why are you letting them do business with EBT?


From what you describe, it sounds like Virginia's EBT card holds only SNAP benefits.  In many States, EBT cards hold SNAP and cash benefits. So an EBT card would first be used to pay for food, then the same card would be used to pay for other items and even get cash back.

That's not a flawed system; it's more efficient for the government and more convenient for card users.  It just didn't anticipate this new requirement for item-level micromanagement. of cash benefits.
 
2013-03-04 01:30:47 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: You do realize that the military money goes directly right back into local economies right? It doesn't go "POOF" and you never see it again. It goes back to military families, contractors, builders, ancillary personnel and companies, all with families, kids, mortgages, grocery lists, beer, boats, college tuition...all sorts of shiat. They take that military money and put it back into the economy. Hell one of them might even take that E-6 pay and buy a Fark sub. The military is just another temporary holding point of that money.

What comes around, goes around. Now if you're sending 100 million dollar planes to other countries for defense that turn on you later, with your own shiat, then oh hell yes, I'm with ya on that one.


EBT money does the same thing -- it goes into the hands of the liquor store owners, local drug dealers, local hookers, gun dealers, etc.  All of whom live in that area and then use that money to shop for other goods and services.

Congratulations -- you've just figured out that money circulates in an economy.  That's kind of what it's for.

The thing is, even if the money were paid to buy things from foreigners, what do you think those foreigners are going to do with those American dollars?  They'll use them to buy American goods.  Either that, or they have to use those dollars to buy other foreign currencies, and the buyer of those dollars then uses those dollars to buy American goods.

The problem with military spending (or any other form of government-directed expenditure) is not following where the dollars go; the real issue is what kind of productivity you're getting for that expenditure of that money, and more importantly, what kind of productivity does NOT occur as a result of the government-directed diversion of money.

What do you get for all those billions spent on the military?  Ships, guns, missiles, and a huge infrastructure that costs billions to deliver a single bullet aimed at an enemy.

What is not being done with the time, energy and labor of all of the people employed in military enterprises?  It's incalculable.  Even Eisenhower said --

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

The cost of the governmental diversion of money, away from all of the transactions that WOULD have occurred, and into the transactions that the government mandates, is an opportunity cost, and is almost always a move away from things that people actually want, and into the production of things that no one wants or would ever buy voluntarily.  Every government dollar spent is a net loss of real wealth.
 
2013-03-04 01:35:12 PM  

bdub77: Troll detector went off. Bye bye


You're the one assuming people would lay down and die, rather then get a job... and I'm the troll??
 
2013-03-04 01:35:42 PM  

Phinn: What do you get for all those billions spent on the military?  Ships, guns, missiles, and a huge infrastructure that costs billions to deliver a single bullet aimed at an enemy.

What is not being done with the time, energy and labor of all of the people employed in military enterprises?  It's incalculable.  Even Eisenhower said --

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

The cost of the governmental diversion of money, away from all of the transactions that WOULD have occurred, and into the transactions that the government mandates, is an opportunity cost, and is almost always a move away from things that people actually want, and into the production of things that no one wants or would ever buy voluntarily.  Every government dollar spent is a net loss of real wealth.


You and Dwight said it better than I ever could.
 
2013-03-04 01:35:52 PM  

vudukungfu: m053486: Oh, and said women come in all sorts of colors.

But mostly in only one size.


Fat & Obnoxious?
 
2013-03-04 01:41:19 PM  

Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?


Welfare and/or food stamps.  It doesn't come in a check or actual stamps in most places anymore.  They're basically debit or prepaid credit cards.

Oh, and someone tells me people misuse them?  The next thing you'll tell me is that the sky is blue and water is wet.

Although really, the misuse described in TFA is pretty infrequent.  Far more frequent is selling or 'renting' the EBT for cash (say 50 cents on the dollar), which is then used to buy prohibited items.
 
2013-03-04 01:56:06 PM  
Good news every one! clane is here to rescue us from logic and reason. WOO HOO! We don't have to think any more!
 
2013-03-04 01:59:30 PM  
Guys, guys, its OK, we shouldn't complain about our tax dollars being used for non-essential goods and services.  It's rich people's fault that poor people don't have money anyway, so who cares if the poor people spend the rich people's money on porn and whatever they want?   It just helps ease the suffering caused by big oil, big banks, wall street, and republicans.
 
2013-03-04 02:02:28 PM  

bdub77: Phinn: What do you get for all those billions spent on the military?  Ships, guns, missiles, and a huge infrastructure that costs billions to deliver a single bullet aimed at an enemy.

What is not being done with the time, energy and labor of all of the people employed in military enterprises?  It's incalculable.  Even Eisenhower said --

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

The cost of the governmental diversion of money, away from all of the transactions that WOULD have occurred, and into the transactions that the government mandates, is an opportunity cost, and is almost always a move away from things that people actually want, and into the production of things that no one wants or would ever buy voluntarily.  Every government dollar spent is a net loss of real wealth.

You and Dwight said it better than I ever could.


Dwight stated only facts. Phinn spouted mostly derp; only "opportunity cost" is a fact.  In Phinn's world, "the people" are only the people who want what he wants.

How do Congresscritters who "almost always" buy what people don't want get elected?
 
2013-03-04 02:07:09 PM  

fredklein: TNel: rlv.zcache.com

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'... but how many stories do you have to hear before you start thinking there might be something to them??

No, really, how many? Like, a number. Because I'm sure I can find that many. And then you'd have to start taking shiat seriously instead of tossing off cutesie t-shirt one-liners.


Go see a climate change global warming thread and this is the exact same line that appears.  You really believe that majority of people are scaming food stamps?
 
2013-03-04 02:20:40 PM  

TNel: fredklein: TNel: rlv.zcache.com

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'... but how many stories do you have to hear before you start thinking there might be something to them??

No, really, how many? Like, a number. Because I'm sure I can find that many. And then you'd have to start taking shiat seriously instead of tossing off cutesie t-shirt one-liners.

Go see a climate change global warming thread and this is the exact same line that appears.  You really believe that majority of people are scaming food stamps?


I for one do not believe a majority of people are scamming on food stamps. Much like the school funding thread, government assistance threads usually boil down to either side claiming the other side is in one of two camps.

Camp A. Believes that every single person using government assistance is a fat lazy slob who sits on their ass at home on their pristine leather furniture, watching 800 channels of cable while talking on the latest high end cell phone just before they climb into their 2013 Cadillac Escalade.

Camp B. Wants every single person receiving government assistance to go without even the smallest amount of help, but also to sell off every worldly possession they have, including but not limited to the clothes on their back and the hair on top of their head.

Lost in the middle are the sane people who want to see some minor reforms made to the system, like removal of candy, soda, and other absolute "non-necessity" foods from the system that, despite the "we swear it isn't happening" statements of the Department of Agriculture, those of us who work on the front lines know damn well that it is.
 
2013-03-04 02:28:44 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: How do Congresscritters who "almost always" buy what people don't want get elected?


Gerrymandering can create an effect by which the majority of people are underrepresented in Congress. This happened in 2010 with the whole Tea Party movement. Second, some people are just plain f*cking stupid, don't know the issues, pick candidates based on coinflips and 'gut feelings'. This happens on both sides of the aisle. In the end, they vote against their interests quite often, or are brainwashed into doing so.

My Congressman won 55-45 in 2010. He won 75-25 in 2012. Gerrymandering.
 
2013-03-04 02:34:03 PM  

bdub77: Big_Fat_Liar: bdub77: The stupidest part of the welfare argument is that welfare is a pretty damn small part of our problems with government waste. The military spending on the other hand is asinine. 700 billion dollars a year? That is f*cking insane. Giving money to some person who may or may not make a living selling drugs pales in comparison to the criminals making 'bling' by selling arms at the top of the military industrial complex.

Start there.

Trouble is EVERYTHING except the military is a pretty damn small...see, you can argue nothing is worth cutting with your rationale and nothing is a problem.

No, what you can do is argue that you have higher priorities in cutting defense budgets than to spend all your time and money researching ways to make welfare work better which may or may not actually cost taxpayers more money in the long run. But if you want to make the argument, fine go after both. But put defense higher on the list.

What we really need is a defense transition program that takes defense projects and works on finding applications in private enterprise, thereby moving those projects off of government funds into private funds.

And move some budgets for defense into one-time infrastructure spending on things like construction and the like. For those soldiers you would have let go, give them transition jobs in construction while giving them training in other areas.

Sad truth is that unemployment is going to continue to rise because there aren't enough jobs. Robots are truly taking our jorbs, and those are never coming back until the robopocalypse comes.


I certainly want both too.  It wouldn't bother me if we "slashed" our "defense" spending to a level that was only equal to like 35% of the world defense spending combined (vs. 41% where it's at right now).  We'll only need enough firepower to take on the robots.
 
2013-03-04 02:39:21 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: We'll only need enough firepower to take on the robots.


Maybe we shouldn't be making so many drones then? :)
 
2013-03-04 02:48:04 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: How do Congresscritters who "almost always" buy what people don't want get elected?


They do it by setting up a system of elections in the first place!  This system of making spending decisions has the convenient effect of separating Election Day from Spending Decision Day.  Let's call this the "Electoral System" of spending money.

The Electoral System also has the convenient effect of appearing to empower the elected person to spend other people's money, rather than the voter's own money.  I, for one, would spend your money on my stuff every day of the week and twice on Sunday, before I ever chose to spend my own.  Spending my money imposes real costs on me. For example, it prevents me from buying pretty much everything I might have otherwise done with that money, since every dollar can only be spent once.  But spending other people's money?  It's seemingly endless.  All of the benefits, none of the (immediate) costs.  I could get used to that.

This Electoral System of spending money is, you might notice, a very different mode of social organization from, say, every person spending his or her own money as he or she sees fit.  In that type of system (let's call it "Real Life"), people get to choose what they spend their money on, and they must immediately live with the consequences of those decisions, on account of the aforementioned fact that every dollar can only be spent once.  As a result, there is no distance at all between the decision to spend money, and the real costs of spending it that way.

So, the "decision" to have "the government" spend money (by ticking a box on a ballot once every few years) on aircraft carriers and EBT cards and sugar subsidies and chicken inspectors and solar panels really can't be compared to the hundreds of millions of decisions of that people make every day in Real Life -- to spend their money on the things they actually want (food, houses, cars, clothes, cell phones, etc.).

Economically, these two modes of spending are so different from one another that they are two entirely different processes.  It's not surprising that one mode yields the production of things that people don't actually want to pay for (but want other people to pay for), and the other mode yields goods and services that people actually enjoy.
 
2013-03-04 03:07:17 PM  

bdub77: BarkingUnicorn: How do Congresscritters who "almost always" buy what people don't want get elected?

Gerrymandering can create an effect by which the majority of people are underrepresented in Congress. This happened in 2010 with the whole Tea Party movement. Second, some people are just plain f*cking stupid, don't know the issues, pick candidates based on coinflips and 'gut feelings'. This happens on both sides of the aisle. In the end, they vote against their interests quite often, or are brainwashed into doing so.

My Congressman won 55-45 in 2010. He won 75-25 in 2012. Gerrymandering.


So Congresscritters almost always buy what people who didn't elect them don't want.  People take the bad with the good because that's how things come. Color me surprised.

Gerrymandering is a scourge.  Districts should be drawn by out-of-state committees composed of people who haven't voted in at least ten years.
 
2013-03-04 03:09:41 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: From what you describe, it sounds like Virginia's EBT card holds only SNAP benefits. In many States, EBT cards hold SNAP and cash benefits. So an EBT card would first be used to pay for food, then the same card would be used to pay for other items and even get cash back.

That's not a flawed system; it's more efficient for the government and more convenient for card users. It just didn't anticipate this new requirement for item-level micromanagement. of cash benefits.


Ah, that could be. Thanks.
 
2013-03-04 03:20:22 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: bdub77: BarkingUnicorn: How do Congresscritters who "almost always" buy what people don't want get elected?

Gerrymandering can create an effect by which the majority of people are underrepresented in Congress. This happened in 2010 with the whole Tea Party movement. Second, some people are just plain f*cking stupid, don't know the issues, pick candidates based on coinflips and 'gut feelings'. This happens on both sides of the aisle. In the end, they vote against their interests quite often, or are brainwashed into doing so.

My Congressman won 55-45 in 2010. He won 75-25 in 2012. Gerrymandering.

So Congresscritters almost always buy what people who didn't elect them don't want.  People take the bad with the good because that's how things come. Color me surprised.

Gerrymandering is a scourge.  Districts should be drawn by out-of-state committees composed of people who haven't voted in at least ten years.


This is the smartest thing I have heard on here in a long time.
 
2013-03-04 03:26:35 PM  

RevMark: Good news every one! clane is here to rescue us from logic and reason. WOO HOO! We don't have to think any more!


clane:
golf clap...
 
2013-03-04 03:49:28 PM  
This is why I know educational vouchers will be a big hit.
 
2013-03-04 03:53:18 PM  
Technology does not exist?  Funny, when they accidentally tried to run something through with my Flex Spending card at Wal*Mart it kicked it out as not eligible.  Of course, this may be a store system, but the technology does exist.  Unless the merchants are crooked, but since we know that it's only the buyer that is the crooked one.
 
2013-03-04 03:55:42 PM  

Bigdogdaddy: Technology does not exist?  Funny, when they accidentally tried to run something through with my Flex Spending card at Wal*Mart it kicked it out as not eligible.  Of course, this may be a store system, but the technology does exist.  Unless the merchants are crooked, but since we know that it's only the buyer that is the crooked one.


Have you ever used a government website?
 
2013-03-04 05:00:02 PM  

Happy Hours: WTF is EBT?


EBT is Afrocan-American for ATM
 
2013-03-04 05:40:31 PM  
Is this what we're going to use to demonize the millions of veterans, active-duty service members, and elderly people who need help paying for food, or are we just going to use it to rationalize cutting off food aid to the millions of kids who grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from?

I don't doubt there's some abuse, but I'm not down with farking over the most needy citizens or letting thugs dictate policy. Prosecute the hell out of people who misuse them, but adding more fraud-protection such that families on the brink are told to wait weeks or months for emergency food aid is not acceptable.
 
2013-03-04 05:41:07 PM  

firefly212: Is this what we're going to use to demonize the millions of veterans, active-duty service members, and elderly people who need help paying for food, or are we just going to use it to rationalize cutting off food aid to the millions of kids who grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from?

I don't doubt there's some abuse, but I'm not down with farking over the most needy citizens or letting thugs dictate policy. Prosecute the hell out of people who misuse them, but adding more fraud-protection such that families on the brink are told to wait weeks or months for emergency food aid is not acceptable.


Ladies and Gentlemen, Camp B.
 
2013-03-04 05:56:54 PM  

TNel: You really believe that majority of people are scaming food stamps?


No. But I believe there are scammers, and that mindlessly denying it (no "data", just anecdotes...) does nothing to stop them.
 
2013-03-04 06:00:20 PM  

jayphat: ... government assistance threads usually boil down to either side claiming the other side is in one of two camps.

Camp A. Believes that every single person using government assistance is a fat lazy slob who sits on their ass at home on their pristine leather furniture, watching 800 channels of cable while talking on the latest high end cell phone just before they climb into their 2013 Cadillac Escalade.

Camp B. Wants every single person receiving government assistance to go without even the smallest amount of help, but also to sell off every worldly possession they have, including but not limited to the clothes on their back and the hair on top of their head.


But there are several posts in this very thread (not to mention elsewhere) attesting to the fact that the 'Camp A' people are correct, at least partially. Are these people lying? Or will you claim 'anecdotes are not data', and thus, are completely worthless?
 
2013-03-04 06:01:15 PM  

clane: clane:
and yall keep voting Democrat...
[i105.photobucket.com image 544x199]

I know I'm feeding the troll, but I can't resist.
rustypouch:
There are about 47 million people in the US on some sort of food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm

So if the SNAP program is cut off, we now have 47 million people going hungry. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away and quietly starve? Or will they start stealing rather than dying in a ditch?

clane:
47 MILLION!! just think about that.Do you think this program is being abused?  This system does not work at all, it is used by the Democrats to buy votes.  It's original intentions were good but now it is a crime the way it is run.
[images.sodahead.com image 350x261]


While I would concede that the republican position of starving the poor to death will not earn them votes, I'm not exactly sure how you arrived at the conclusion that food stamps correlate with democratic votes, some of the states most dependant on food stamps (AL, MS, KY) are staunchly Republican. 47 is a huge number, to be sure, and I think we've got a serious problem with food insecurity as laid out in the http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/884525/err141.pdf USDA report, do you have any mathematical or analytical basis for claiming that the growth in food insecurity, rather than being a function of a deep recession and disproportionately low income growth at the bottom, is instead a function of abuse? I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that I haven't seen the math from your side of the argument, so I'm genuinely curious what metrics you're using that lead you to the conclusion you've arrived at.
 
2013-03-04 06:01:41 PM  

fredklein: jayphat: ... government assistance threads usually boil down to either side claiming the other side is in one of two camps.

Camp A. Believes that every single person using government assistance is a fat lazy slob who sits on their ass at home on their pristine leather furniture, watching 800 channels of cable while talking on the latest high end cell phone just before they climb into their 2013 Cadillac Escalade.

Camp B. Wants every single person receiving government assistance to go without even the smallest amount of help, but also to sell off every worldly possession they have, including but not limited to the clothes on their back and the hair on top of their head.


But there are several posts in this very thread (not to mention elsewhere) attesting to the fact that the 'Camp A' people are correct, at least partially. Are these people lying? Or will you claim 'anecdotes are not data', and thus, are completely worthless?


Is there a reason you cut off the rest of what I posted originally? Because that would answer your question.
 
2013-03-04 06:04:40 PM  

fredklein: No. But I believe there are scammers, and that mindlessly denying it (no "data", just anecdotes...) does nothing to stop them.


Who is denying it?
 
2013-03-04 06:08:36 PM  

jayphat: firefly212: Is this what we're going to use to demonize the millions of veterans, active-duty service members, and elderly people who need help paying for food, or are we just going to use it to rationalize cutting off food aid to the millions of kids who grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from?

I don't doubt there's some abuse, but I'm not down with farking over the most needy citizens or letting thugs dictate policy. Prosecute the hell out of people who misuse them, but adding more fraud-protection such that families on the brink are told to wait weeks or months for emergency food aid is not acceptable.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Camp B.


I think I'm Camp C... I don't think most of them are lazy (most recipents of food aid are children, but the second largest group is the employed poor, then seniors), I'm perfectly ok with people collecting aid from the government... I mean, they pay taxes in the good times, why should they not be able to expect those tax dollars go towards anything that benefits them. I think when there are abuses, people should be prosecuted very fully, but I've experienced parts of the system in periods when I couldn't walk b/c of my MS... some of the anti-fraud measures are so tedious and time consuming that the only people with the ability to complete them are the fraudsters. Even my grandmom (several years back) was denied disability after a double hip, double knee replacement. I'm fine with prosecuting fraud, but I hate knowing that right now there are kids that don't have food because their parents don't have adequate documentation of just how financially farked they are.
 
2013-03-04 06:15:53 PM  

fredklein: jayphat: ... government assistance threads usually boil down to either side claiming the other side is in one of two camps.

Camp A. Believes that every single person using government assistance is a fat lazy slob who sits on their ass at home on their pristine leather furniture, watching 800 channels of cable while talking on the latest high end cell phone just before they climb into their 2013 Cadillac Escalade.

Camp B. Wants every single person receiving government assistance to go without even the smallest amount of help, but also to sell off every worldly possession they have, including but not limited to the clothes on their back and the hair on top of their head.


But there are several posts in this very thread (not to mention elsewhere) attesting to the fact that the 'Camp A' people are correct, at least partially. Are these people lying? Or will you claim 'anecdotes are not data', and thus, are completely worthless?


Partially correct in the same way you can be partially pregnant or partially dead?

The reality is that there are certainly some fraudsters with lavish lifestyles who are still collecting foodstamps and other forms of government aid, but the reality is also that they are a small minority of the massive number of Americans working hard, struggling to get by, struggling with health issues or issues that come with aging, kids who had an unfortunate draw of parents, and other people most eminently deserving of our aid and compassion as a society. Using the criminals to justify starving the children is neither a conservative value nor a christian value, and it sure as hell isn't my values. I'm tired of this faux-christianity on the march, these ostensibly Christian people who chide the gays for their lack of morality while also  cheering for the execution of the imprisoned, the starving of children, and cutting off of medical aid to the needy. Digressing back to the topic though, we can deal with those who are lazy, we can means test so millionaires aren't getting food stamps, we can prosecute those abusing the system. That said,  pretending that people are even partially right when they improperly stereotype and characterize the recipients of food stamps and welfare as lazy, slovenly, or otherwise undeserving of our aid is just plain wrong.
 
2013-03-04 06:17:52 PM  

firefly212: jayphat: firefly212: Is this what we're going to use to demonize the millions of veterans, active-duty service members, and elderly people who need help paying for food, or are we just going to use it to rationalize cutting off food aid to the millions of kids who grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from?

I don't doubt there's some abuse, but I'm not down with farking over the most needy citizens or letting thugs dictate policy. Prosecute the hell out of people who misuse them, but adding more fraud-protection such that families on the brink are told to wait weeks or months for emergency food aid is not acceptable.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Camp B.

I think I'm Camp C... I don't think most of them are lazy (most recipents of food aid are children, but the second largest group is the employed poor, then seniors), I'm perfectly ok with people collecting aid from the government... I mean, they pay taxes in the good times, why should they not be able to expect those tax dollars go towards anything that benefits them. I think when there are abuses, people should be prosecuted very fully, but I've experienced parts of the system in periods when I couldn't walk b/c of my MS... some of the anti-fraud measures are so tedious and time consuming that the only people with the ability to complete them are the fraudsters. Even my grandmom (several years back) was denied disability after a double hip, double knee replacement. I'm fine with prosecuting fraud, but I hate knowing that right now there are kids that don't have food because their parents don't have adequate documentation of just how financially farked they are.


Really hard to infer that from your first statement of "they are going to use this to starve everyone"
 
2013-03-04 06:33:41 PM  

jayphat: firefly212: jayphat: firefly212: Is this what we're going to use to demonize the millions of veterans, active-duty service members, and elderly people who need help paying for food, or are we just going to use it to rationalize cutting off food aid to the millions of kids who grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from?

I don't doubt there's some abuse, but I'm not down with farking over the most needy citizens or letting thugs dictate policy. Prosecute the hell out of people who misuse them, but adding more fraud-protection such that families on the brink are told to wait weeks or months for emergency food aid is not acceptable.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Camp B.

I think I'm Camp C... I don't think most of them are lazy (most recipents of food aid are children, but the second largest group is the employed poor, then seniors), I'm perfectly ok with people collecting aid from the government... I mean, they pay taxes in the good times, why should they not be able to expect those tax dollars go towards anything that benefits them. I think when there are abuses, people should be prosecuted very fully, but I've experienced parts of the system in periods when I couldn't walk b/c of my MS... some of the anti-fraud measures are so tedious and time consuming that the only people with the ability to complete them are the fraudsters. Even my grandmom (several years back) was denied disability after a double hip, double knee replacement. I'm fine with prosecuting fraud, but I hate knowing that right now there are kids that don't have food because their parents don't have adequate documentation of just how financially farked they are.

Really hard to infer that from your first statement of "they are going to use this to starve everyone"


I think that with lots of social programs and disability, faux-conservatives try to use the 1% of fraud to justify cutting off 100% of a program. It's a terrible mindset, and certainly not one I ascribe to.
 
2013-03-04 06:33:57 PM  

firefly212: Is this what we're going to use to demonize the millions of veterans, active-duty service members, and elderly people who need help paying for food, or are we just going to use it to rationalize cutting off food aid to the millions of kids who grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from?

I don't doubt there's some abuse, but I'm not down with farking over the most needy citizens or letting thugs dictate policy. Prosecute the hell out of people who misuse them, but adding more fraud-protection such that families on the brink are told to wait weeks or months for emergency food aid is not acceptable.


No, because this thread is not about food aid.  It's about cash aid.  And it's not about making cash aid harder to get, it's about making the cash aid you have harder to abuse.

The confusion over EBT, SNAP, and cash aid tells me who's never used all of them.
 
2013-03-04 06:36:14 PM  

firefly212: jayphat: firefly212: jayphat: firefly212: Is this what we're going to use to demonize the millions of veterans, active-duty service members, and elderly people who need help paying for food, or are we just going to use it to rationalize cutting off food aid to the millions of kids who grow up not knowing where their next meal will come from?

I don't doubt there's some abuse, but I'm not down with farking over the most needy citizens or letting thugs dictate policy. Prosecute the hell out of people who misuse them, but adding more fraud-protection such that families on the brink are told to wait weeks or months for emergency food aid is not acceptable.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Camp B.

I think I'm Camp C... I don't think most of them are lazy (most recipents of food aid are children, but the second largest group is the employed poor, then seniors), I'm perfectly ok with people collecting aid from the government... I mean, they pay taxes in the good times, why should they not be able to expect those tax dollars go towards anything that benefits them. I think when there are abuses, people should be prosecuted very fully, but I've experienced parts of the system in periods when I couldn't walk b/c of my MS... some of the anti-fraud measures are so tedious and time consuming that the only people with the ability to complete them are the fraudsters. Even my grandmom (several years back) was denied disability after a double hip, double knee replacement. I'm fine with prosecuting fraud, but I hate knowing that right now there are kids that don't have food because their parents don't have adequate documentation of just how financially farked they are.

Really hard to infer that from your first statement of "they are going to use this to starve everyone"

I think that with lots of social programs and disability, faux-conservatives try to use the 1% of fraud to justify cutting off 100% of a program. It's a terrible mindset, and certainly not one I ascribe to.


Again, that's the Camp B mentality, which a vast majority of people don't subscribe to. The whole point of why I typed this up in the first place.
 
2013-03-04 06:45:17 PM  

firefly212: I think that with lots of social programs and disability, faux-conservatives try to use the 1% of fraud to justify cutting off 100% of a program. It's a terrible mindset, and certainly not one I ascribe to.


This isn't just a "faux-conservative" thing. Everybody seems to do it depending on the issue. Replace "1% of fraud" with "0.01% of firearms misused" and suddenly everybody in this thread will flip sides.

In other words, "this is why we can't have nice things."
 
2013-03-04 06:51:01 PM  

jayphat: Is there a reason you cut off the rest of what I posted originally? Because that would answer your question.


You mean the part about "sane people who want to see some minor reforms made to the system"?? A "minor reform" won't fix major problems.
 
2013-03-04 06:51:36 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: fredklein: No. But I believe there are scammers, and that mindlessly denying it (no "data", just anecdotes...) does nothing to stop them.

Who is denying it?


Anyone who dismisses the issue with "Anecdotes are not data".
 
2013-03-04 07:05:12 PM  

firefly212: Partially correct in the same way you can be partially pregnant or partially dead?
Partially correct as in, not "every single person" using government assistance is a fat lazy slob who sits on their ass at home on their pristine leather furniture, watching 800 channels of cable while talking on the latest high end cell phone just before they climb into their 2013 Cadillac Escalade, but rather that only some are.

The reality is that there are certainly some fraudsters with lavish lifestyles who are still collecting foodstamps and other forms of government aid/i>

Exactly. Now you understand.

I'm tired of this faux-christianity on the march, these ostensibly Christian people who chide the gays for their lack of morality while also cheering for the execution of the imprisoned, the starving of children, and cutting off of medical aid to the needy.

Well, I'm not sure where you're going wit this, 'cuz I'm not Christian.

I do, however, believe in the Death penalty. And Natural Selection (aka survival of the fittest). But that's another story.
www.corporate-aliens.com

Digressing back to the topic though, we can deal with those who are lazy, we can means test so millionaires aren't getting food stamps, we can prosecute those abusing the system.

Sounds good. Why don't we??

 
2013-03-04 07:40:37 PM  
By all means though middle class folks, keep on blaming all your problems on poor people, it's exactly what the people with real wealth and power want you to think. They rob you blind and use their resources to convince you that they are the 'job creators' and the only hope you have left, then they convince you that those damn poor folks are the problem. Meanwhile they are busy pocketing the proceeds of your labor to pay for their third mansion, supercars, and plastic surgery for their trophy wives/husbands.
 
2013-03-04 10:53:26 PM  
The people that manage these cards need to do away with the cash option.  I dont much care if it makes it harder for the recipients.  Our tax money shouldnt be going to porn, booze and guns.  If the recipients dont like the hardship of free money, without a cash option they can always get off their asses and go get a job like the rest of us.
 
2013-03-04 11:21:48 PM  
I'm about to the point where I can't take the stupidity of EBT-outrage threads anymore. Protip: EBT cards are used for more than just food stamps.
 
2013-03-04 11:46:46 PM  

m053486: Also the hottest, newest smartphones.

Nothing cheers my day more than an EBT wielding, demanding, obnoxious mother-of-five using her freshly "did" nails to pry said EBT card from her cash-fat wallet because she's "tired of all my girlfriends telling me I need a new phone, ya heard me?"

Oh, and said women come in all sorts of colors coloreds.

 
2013-03-05 09:06:22 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Cybernetic: BarkingUnicorn: x-caliber: My FSA can handle this quite easily.  Leave it to Massachusetts government to go with the lowest bidder for software development for this work (or at least have not completed a requirements document for the software development).

What we're talking about wasn't a requirement at the time the software was developed.  The cash benefits on an EBT card can be spent on anything.  It's possible to restrict where cash benefits can be spent, but many purchases simply cannot be checked against a database of prohibited items.  Ever seen a UPC scanner used to ring up a manicure?

It should be fairly straightforward to group businesses into two classes: allowed to accept EBT payments, and not allowed to accept EBT payments.

Grocery stores, pharmacies, and stores that sell necessities: allowed.
Liquor stores, hair/nail salons, strip clubs, adult bookstores: not allowed.

...and so on.

This is something that can be done, it just isn't being done.

The new law is demanding item-level blocking.  The benefits manager acknowledges that location-level blocking is possible, but says he can't comply with this law.  Even if he could, cash can still be withdrawn at some ATM and spent on anything, anywhere.

I wonder if States can prohibit cash withdrawals on their own.  The ability to get cash benefits in cash may be a federal requirement.

BTW, it's not just States that are pushing this micromanagement.  A new federal law requires them to prohibit use of cash benefits for purchases of liquor, cigarettes, adult entertainment, gambling and guns by 2014 or lose federal money.  That law passed on the strength of a House Ways & Means Committee report that merely cited anecdotes from news media without a single estimate of how often abuse happens or the dollars involved.


Item-level blocking already exists for FSA debit cards. When I buy stuff at Walgreens, items that are eligible for FSA payment are marked on the receipt with an 'F'. And since eligibility for FSA reimbursement is controlled by federal law, I can't see this being much different, except for the breadth of the back-end database that would be required.

As for cash withdrawals, I'm sure the technology exists to block them, but I have no idea what the legal requirements are.
 
Displayed 221 of 221 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report