If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(KPBS San Diego)   California doctors are already saying "no" to Medicaid patients, and it's not even 2014 yet. Thanks, Obama   (kpbs.org) divider line 74
    More: Obvious, Medi-Cal, Medicaid, obamacare, Californians, Kern County, legal assistance, major piece, Alameda County  
•       •       •

1853 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Mar 2013 at 8:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



74 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-03-04 07:25:42 AM
Article is more about Medi-Cal than Medicaid. At a $24 reimbursement rate, I can see why doctors don't want to see those patients. But what Subby leaves out is that those Medi-Cal reimbursement rates will jump to match Medicaid's in 2014. Thanks, Obama indeed.
 
2013-03-04 07:43:39 AM
"Low Medi-Cal rates are being addressed - temporarily at least - by Obamacare.Starting this past January and lasting two years, reimbursement rates for many primary care services in Medi-Cal will jump to Medicare levels, funded by the federal government.In California, the change is dramatic. On average, fees will increase by 136 percent, according to the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured."

Subby should really read his own farking article.
 
2013-03-04 07:44:43 AM

SnarfVader: But what Subby leaves out is that those Medi-Cal reimbursement rates will jump to match Medicaid's in 2014.


Which is still no great deal.

But that's what the state looking the other way while Medicaid doctors pad their bills like crazy is for.
 
2013-03-04 08:12:37 AM
It's probably due to the fact that there'll be many more people who can afford health care, but not very many more doctors.  They're probably already swamped as it is.
 
2013-03-04 08:19:34 AM
The only conclusion we an draw is that if we had a single payer system every doctor would instantly retire, no doctors from other countries would wait years for a US visa and we'd all die.
 
2013-03-04 08:24:42 AM
So we're creating lots of demand for more doctors? Yay jobs!
 
2013-03-04 08:24:55 AM

ginandbacon: "Low Medi-Cal rates are being addressed - temporarily at least - by Obamacare.Starting this past January and lasting two years, reimbursement rates for many primary care services in Medi-Cal will jump to Medicare levels, funded by the federal government.In California, the change is dramatic. On average, fees will increase by 136 percent, according to the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured."

Subby should really read his own farking article.


Headline trolling doesn't work if you actually read TFA.
 
2013-03-04 08:25:35 AM
My mom's on Medi-Cal, and she's been shuffled back and forth between doctors for years now due to doctors no longer accepting it. Should I blame Obama and his magical time machine?
 
2013-03-04 08:25:44 AM
Doctors really live up to that oath they took. IIRC, it's "If you can't make lots of money, close up shop and let them die."
 
2013-03-04 08:26:07 AM

xanadian: It's probably due to the fact that there'll be many more people who can afford health care, but not very many more doctors.  They're probably already swamped as it is.


Exactly. Someone will figure out a way to fill this niche and they'll clean up.
 
MFK
2013-03-04 08:26:23 AM
when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?
 
2013-03-04 08:28:01 AM

MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?


When capitalism became our national theology to fight the communist horde.
 
2013-03-04 08:29:47 AM
FTFA: Progam Expansion

lol
 
2013-03-04 08:37:15 AM

verbaltoxin: MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?

When capitalism became our national theology to fight the communist horde.


I thought we were fighting teh ebil soshulizmz now. How are we supposed to keep track of everyone we're supposed to exercise our second amendment rights on if they keep changing it?

/you've always had a hard time getting medical care in Cali if you don't have private insurance
//it's worse now that a lot of the county clinics have closed in my area
 
2013-03-04 08:43:34 AM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: verbaltoxin: MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?

When capitalism became our national theology to fight the communist horde.

I thought we were fighting teh ebil soshulizmz now. How are we supposed to keep track of everyone we're supposed to exercise our second amendment rights on if they keep changing it?

/you've always had a hard time getting medical care in Cali if you don't have private insurance
//it's worse now that a lot of the county clinics have closed in my area


Communism, socialism...it's not capitalism, so it's wrong. That's the mentality of most Americans over 45. They spent their whole lives being conditioned to hate it, and so it's a trigger now.

It's going to be a relief when Americans can finally read and discuss Marx in the open without fear. I'm not even a hard-left person. It's just the man did write a pretty good critique on capitalism, and we're pretty much living out that critique today.
 
2013-03-04 08:45:33 AM
Keep it up shiatheads. Really. Stories like these only hasten the march to a single payor solution.
 
2013-03-04 08:45:53 AM

Wyalt Derp: So we're creating lots of demand for more doctors? Yay jobs!


Creating demand but not increasing compensation nor number of teaching hospitals. Stupid system. AMA hasnt certified enough new schools to meet demand.
 
2013-03-04 08:47:31 AM

Uranus Is Huge!: Keep it up shiatheads. Really. Stories like these only hasten the march to a single payor solution.


Which would still have a lack of doctors. Doctors dont magically appear because you change the funding source.
 
2013-03-04 08:51:24 AM

MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?


I've never heard the justification for healthcare being a for-profit business. It seems an argument could be made that profiting off the sickness and suffering of taxpayers should be illegal.
 
2013-03-04 08:53:06 AM
It's law, get over it.  The SCOTUS has reviewed it, and decided it's legit.  You won't change it by electing idiots to keep having for-show-only votes to "Repeal Obamacare."  This country is moving in the direction of other developed nations.  farking deal with it, crybabies.
 
2013-03-04 08:56:01 AM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: It's law, get over it.  The SCOTUS has reviewed it, and decided it's legit.  You won't change it by electing idiots to keep having for-show-only votes to "Repeal Obamacare."  This country is moving in the direction of other developed nations.  farking deal with it, crybabies.


Democrats have already joined republicans in overturning parts of the law. The CLASS provision. Likewise quite a few democrats are seeking to ammend the 2.3% tax on revenue for medical device manifacturers.. oh wait. You thought laws were immortal. Sorry for your ignorance.
 
2013-03-04 08:57:49 AM

make me some tea: xanadian: It's probably due to the fact that there'll be many more people who can afford health care, but not very many more doctors.  They're probably already swamped as it is.

Exactly. Someone will figure out a way to fill this niche and they'll clean up.


How about using those "mini clinics" in grocery stores and such? Anyone with a cough or sinus infection or whatever can just go to one of those. Hell, the government can pay for them since it is pretty much an extension of the "free clinic" concept. The increased availability of early care would help to reduce the more severe illnesses that are going to be swamping doctors.

I think the future of medical care is more reliance on nurse practitioners and small clinics for the day to day stuff. Also, more reliance on tele-medicine to support the baby-boomer glut of people needing some sort of active health management.
 
2013-03-04 09:04:42 AM

verbaltoxin: Communism, socialism...it's not capitalism, so it's wrong. That's the mentality of most Americans over 45. They spent their whole lives being conditioned to hate it, and so it's a trigger now.

It's going to be a relief when Americans can finally read and discuss Marx in the open without fear. I'm not even a hard-left person. It's just the man did write a pretty good critique on capitalism, and we're pretty much living out that critique today.


I have never read Marx. My Mom was trying so hard to "be American" we weren't even really allowed to rock the boat by reading or doing things the neighbors would frown on as they were unamerican or some BS. (Not that it did too much to stop us, but a book would have been seized) My Mom has chilled out a lot, so it's not a big deal anymore, but you're right about people over 45. I vaguely remember "nuclear drills" where we'd have to hide under our desks in case teh ebil communists lobbed bombs at us. Like a public school desk in the rough part of Los Angeles, that may or may not even have four unbent legs to hold it up, is going to protect us. If I hadn't spent summers in teh ebil soshulizms country of Norway to visit family, I'd have a VERY skewed view of it, too.

Which of Marx's books should I start with to get an idea of his POV? I have a Kindle, so I can probably download it free from Scribd or something like that. I like reading things like that from all POVs, not just the ones that I agree with.
 
2013-03-04 09:08:24 AM

MyRandomName: Uranus Is Huge!: Keep it up shiatheads. Really. Stories like these only hasten the march to a single payor solution.

Which would still have a lack of doctors. Doctors dont magically appear because you change the funding source.


What a non-sequitur might look like. I thought the discussion was about healthcare finance.

I get it you hate Obama and his signature piece of legislation. That 2.3% tax is so crushing, that my medical device manufacturing employer is facing record profits.
 
2013-03-04 09:11:12 AM

Notabunny: MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?

I've never heard the justification for healthcare being a for-profit business. It seems an argument could be made that profiting off the sickness and suffering of taxpayers should be illegal.


I think the standard line is that the profit motive encourages innovation, which leads to increased efficiency. It might even work, if the people at point-of-sale - the doctor and the patient - weren't the two people who had the least interest in controlling costs.
 
2013-03-04 09:12:34 AM

make me some tea: xanadian: It's probably due to the fact that there'll be many more people who can afford health care, but not very many more doctors.  They're probably already swamped as it is.

Exactly. Someone will figure out a way to fill this niche and they'll clean up.


most countries provide higher education to medical students for services after they graduate. they do a few years in state residency and their done paying for their education.
 
2013-03-04 09:13:13 AM

Hobodeluxe: make me some tea: xanadian: It's probably due to the fact that there'll be many more people who can afford health care, but not very many more doctors.  They're probably already swamped as it is.

Exactly. Someone will figure out a way to fill this niche and they'll clean up.

most countries provide higher education to medical students for services after they graduate. they do a few years in state residency and they're done paying for their education.


ftfm

/coffee
 
2013-03-04 09:14:32 AM
My prediction of how this thread will go:

Doctors, physicians assistants and nurses should be paid well to reflect their level of education and training, as well as the fact that they must manage life-threatening situations.  You farkers are just jealous that you don't have the drive or ambition to work hard for success.

Oh yeah?  Well my doctor is a total schmuck!  He doesn't listen to me and just instantly pigeonholes me into a preconceived diagnosis, writes me a prescription, and if that doesn't work he ignores me or sends me to an even more insensitive and procedure-happy specialist.

Well, I/my friend/my relative am/is a doctor, and you just have a shiatty doctor. I/he/she has been in school for decades, why should I/he/she work for free?

Wahhhh, wahhhh, wahhhh...  PhDs are doctors too and nobody cares that they are paid very little despite decades of education.  Soldiers, cops, and firefighters deal with life-or-death situations too, and in addition incur a significant risk of injury or death to themselves, not just killing other people with their farkups.  So suck it, docs.

Listen up libtardos.  We live in a free market society. You should expect to get what you pay for.  Pay less for healthcare, and you will get lower quality.  Study it out.

How shameful that anybody would expect to make a profit from health care.  All health care facilities and institutions should be non-profit. Doctors and nurses should at most be paid middle class wages.  What they lose in compensation they would gain with the respect of society.  That's the way it used to be.

[citation needed].  Good luck waiting for a hip replacement or a CABG, then.  You're on the death panel in twelve states!

I'll be careful then.

You'll be dead!

LOL, did you know that guy in the cantina scene was actually a doctor?

You Star Trek nerds are so adorable.  Did he go to medical school with Dr. Spock?

*nerdrage*

[princessleiagoldbikini.jpg] - I wish I were her gynecologist
 
2013-03-04 09:18:13 AM

HeartBurnKid: My mom's on Medi-Cal, and she's been shuffled back and forth between doctors for years now due to doctors no longer accepting it. Should I blame Obama and his magical time machine?


Yes, he's probably the one that keeps getting you mom sick to begin with as well.
 
2013-03-04 09:22:16 AM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: verbaltoxin: Communism, socialism...it's not capitalism, so it's wrong. That's the mentality of most Americans over 45. They spent their whole lives being conditioned to hate it, and so it's a trigger now.

It's going to be a relief when Americans can finally read and discuss Marx in the open without fear. I'm not even a hard-left person. It's just the man did write a pretty good critique on capitalism, and we're pretty much living out that critique today.

I have never read Marx. My Mom was trying so hard to "be American" we weren't even really allowed to rock the boat by reading or doing things the neighbors would frown on as they were unamerican or some BS. (Not that it did too much to stop us, but a book would have been seized) My Mom has chilled out a lot, so it's not a big deal anymore, but you're right about people over 45. I vaguely remember "nuclear drills" where we'd have to hide under our desks in case teh ebil communists lobbed bombs at us. Like a public school desk in the rough part of Los Angeles, that may or may not even have four unbent legs to hold it up, is going to protect us. If I hadn't spent summers in teh ebil soshulizms country of Norway to visit family, I'd have a VERY skewed view of it, too.

Which of Marx's books should I start with to get an idea of his POV? I have a Kindle, so I can probably download it free from Scribd or something like that. I like reading things like that from all POVs, not just the ones that I agree with.


If you want to start, find a good group of commies. No really. They have already waded into the weeds and can break down a lot of what Marx was saying before you even start reading. Personally I haven't gone deep into it yet, but I have read some good conversations which helped me understand the basics of communist theory.

The really, really, really dumbed-down version is this:

Marx believed capitalism would eventually be unsustainable. The upper classes would suck up all the wealth, the proletariat would revolt, and socialism would ensue. Eventually society would transition to communism (Which in Marx's practice is basically anarchism). Communism is essentially stateless. Socialism is the mechanism to transfer a state from capitalism towards communism. It's the in-between phase where the state owns the means of production and distributes it equally to the people. Communism is when people directly own the means of production, with no middle man, and no one has more than what they need. They trade communally. It all sounds wonderful and utopian, which is kind of what it is.

Lenin believed this could be achieved by violent revolution. Marx wasn't clear on just how we'd go from capitalism to socialism to communism. Lenin wanted to overthrown a monarchy and impose socialism via revolution. He believed in ongoing revolution expanding outward to other capitalist societies. His opponents, the menschaviks, also believed in socialism, but in not such a forceful way. The soviets won that argument, to say the least.

It reaches "turtles all the way down" level when you add in Trotsky, Stalin and other revolutionary Communist thinkers and doers. Each one had their own belief on how communism should be achieved. Then they started arguing, and one got into power and smote all the others. Boom. Stalinism prevailed. In practice Stalinism made the USSR what it really was: an autocratic, socialist state. The Soviets never got anywhere near communism. Communism became a thing, like capitalism, that the Soviets cherished and idealized, but like libertarians and their free markets, never materialized nor existed.

So really communism failed because like anarchism, how do you get there? How long does it take to get there? Nobody really had an answer for that, and when they tried, you wound up with the USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, and so on. It turns out seizing and nationalizing the means of production puts all the power in the hands of a few guys, much like unchecked capitalism does.
 
2013-03-04 09:25:45 AM

verbaltoxin: MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?

When capitalism became our national theology to fight the communist horde.


You guys are adorable.

Why would you be surprised and outraged that a business has grown up around health care? People put a measurable value on their health and on their life - and are willing to pay for it rather than figure it out for themselves. They're also willing to pay even more handsomely if they think they can have their cake and eat it too, because medical science is there to fix everything even if they eat way too much cake and wind up with diabetes, busted kidneys and arteries full of calcified goo.

A lot of them also believed the line of crap the WHO and USDA spewed for decades about the 'food pyramid' and loaded up on carbs. And now they're paying the price. Mitigating that damage is expensive. Heart disease by itself: a trillion dollars a year. Diabetes, soon to be a half-trillion a year. The big bad evil health care business didn't cause those diseases, but it's happy to be around for a piece of the action now that so many have inflicted illnesses on themselves.

Here's what it comes down to: anything about your health that you can't do for yourself...or in most people's cases, WON'T figure out for themselves...is going to come down to either a business decision or a political decision, or some combination of both where they collude to enrich each other. Subsidize the agriculture that produces the processed-out-the-ass low price crap that people on public assistance have to resort to for cheap calories...ta-da! A steady stream of customers for government health care. It's a great little cycle if you're in agribusiness, big-box grocery chains, pharmaceuticals and government. The money, for example, is in diabetes maintenance. Prevention doesn't get anybody rich.

The only person who can keep you out of having to make that choice is looking at you in the mirror.
 
2013-03-04 09:31:27 AM
http://www.informationweek.com/healthcare/clinical-systems/ibms-watso n -hits-medical-school/240012800

In 10 years from now, medical care will become really cheap once mechanization hits the healthcare industry like it has hit manufacturing. All of these arguments over whether health care should be universal will sound really dumb in retrospect.
 
2013-03-04 09:34:11 AM

Gulper Eel: verbaltoxin: MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?

When capitalism became our national theology to fight the communist horde.

You guys are adorable.

Why would you be surprised and outraged that a business has grown up around health care? People put a measurable value on their health and on their life - and are willing to pay for it rather than figure it out for themselves. They're also willing to pay even more handsomely if they think they can have their cake and eat it too, because medical science is there to fix everything even if they eat way too much cake and wind up with diabetes, busted kidneys and arteries full of calcified goo.

A lot of them also believed the line of crap the WHO and USDA spewed for decades about the 'food pyramid' and loaded up on carbs. And now they're paying the price. Mitigating that damage is expensive. Heart disease by itself: a trillion dollars a year. Diabetes, soon to be a half-trillion a year. The big bad evil health care business didn't cause those diseases, but it's happy to be around for a piece of the action now that so many have inflicted illnesses on themselves.

Here's what it comes down to: anything about your health that you can't do for yourself...or in most people's cases, WON'T figure out for themselves...is going to come down to either a business decision or a political decision, or some combination of both where they collude to enrich each other. Subsidize the agriculture that produces the processed-out-the-ass low price crap that people on public assistance have to resort to for cheap calories...ta-da! A steady stream of customers for government health care. It's a great little cycle if you're in agribusiness, big-box grocery chains, pharmaceuticals and government. The money, for example, is in diabetes maintenance. Prevention doesn't get anybody rich.

The only person who can keep you out of having to make that choice is looking at you in the mirror.


Right and we know your answer to millions suffering is, "F*ck you, got mine."

We're well, well aware you have no ideas, no answers, and generally nothing of worth to offer.

So kindly f*ck off.
 
2013-03-04 09:37:01 AM

Notabunny: MFK: when did we get to the point as a society where we "have to make a buck" off of health care?

I've never heard the justification for healthcare being a for-profit business. It seems an argument could be made that profiting off the sickness and suffering of taxpayers should be illegal.


Indeed. Simply making a living (and a fine one at that) isn't nearly enough. They need to make a killing.
 
2013-03-04 09:39:14 AM
i865.photobucket.com

Troll headlines? In my Fark? It's more likely than you think.
 
2013-03-04 09:40:20 AM
Doctors were saying "no" to medicare patients back in the 80s. I just want to smack the idiot who gave Obama his time machine!
 
2013-03-04 09:40:46 AM
It was easier when instead of flooding the doctors with medical concerns the poor people just stayed sick and died.  Thanks a lot Obama
 
2013-03-04 09:59:33 AM
obamas_magical_time_machine.jpg

Ah, the bane of the foster parent: Title 19.  Places have already been saying no to medicaid patients for years.  It is really really fun to find therapists and dentists that accept it.

At least our primary care doc told us 'no way it is going down like that' when the clinic we see him at denied to see the kids under our care saying they wouldn't accept them because of Medicaid.  He fixed it so they would.

This is also a heartfelt thank you to all of you for contributing to the kids' health insurance.
 
2013-03-04 10:03:57 AM

DeaH: Doctors were saying "no" to medicare patients back in the 80s. I just want to smack the idiot who gave Obama his time machine!


Thank you!  Glad that someone pointed that out.  We have friends who are docs that have been dealing with this since then...they've been on the receiving end, since they do accept medicare patients.
 
2013-03-04 10:04:24 AM

MyRandomName: Wyalt Derp: So we're creating lots of demand for more doctors? Yay jobs!

Creating demand but not increasing compensation nor number of teaching hospitals. Stupid system. AMA hasnt certified enough new schools to meet demand.


Actually medical school enrollments keep going up every year.  Established medical schools are boosting enrollments, and there have been plenty of schools recently opened or opening (Florida State, Florida Atlantic, Oakland Beaumont, Central Michigan, PA Commonwealth, Rowan, Hofstra, and that's just the MD schools).  What hasn't gone up is the number of residency spots, which are primarily funded by Medicare dollars, so remain static.

As a result you have more US-trained graduates going into primary care spots, but even then you just have more affluent middle and upper class students, who want to stay in desireable areas, and fewer hospitals in underserved areas can use the allure of J1 visas to attract foreign-educated talent.  Expect to see a glut of doctors in cities and nearby suburbs but even worsening shortages in rural areas.
 
2013-03-04 10:05:40 AM

Parthenogenetic: My prediction of how this thread will go:


You put waaaaaaay too much thought into that, my friend.
 
2013-03-04 10:06:13 AM

verbaltoxin: Right and we know your answer to millions suffering is, "F*ck you, got mine."

We're well, well aware you have no ideas, no answers, and generally nothing of worth to offer.

So kindly f*ck off.


Ooh, you took the bait. And offered the predictable petulant answer.

But since you've raised an objection, some explanation on your part is required other than citationless huffiness. - please explain how it can be taken as an article of faith that the government has your best interests in mind when it has been repeatedly been demonstrated over decades that the more powerful the government the more they have in mind for you is your role in furthering their power, and not a whole lot more than that.

I do not say that government is worse than business, nor that it's better. They are both in it to profit from you. Why would you hand that power to them when you have the power to deny them that?

The thing that's driving health care costs is NOT bolt-from-the-blue random catastrophic illnesses - it's crap people inflict on themselves of their own free will. You know, the stuff the First Lady is trying to prevent.
 
2013-03-04 10:07:36 AM

Parthenogenetic: My prediction of how this thread will go:

Doctors, physicians assistants and nurses should be paid well to reflect their level of education and training, as well as the fact that they must manage life-threatening situations.  You farkers are just jealous that you don't have the drive or ambition to work hard for success.

Oh yeah?  Well my doctor is a total schmuck!  He doesn't listen to me and just instantly pigeonholes me into a preconceived diagnosis, writes me a prescription, and if that doesn't work he ignores me or sends me to an even more insensitive and procedure-happy specialist.

Well, I/my friend/my relative am/is a doctor, and you just have a shiatty doctor. I/he/she has been in school for decades, why should I/he/she work for free?

Wahhhh, wahhhh, wahhhh...  PhDs are doctors too and nobody cares that they are paid very little despite decades of education.  Soldiers, cops, and firefighters deal with life-or-death situations too, and in addition incur a significant risk of injury or death to themselves, not just killing other people with their farkups.  So suck it, docs.

Listen up libtardos.  We live in a free market society. You should expect to get what you pay for.  Pay less for healthcare, and you will get lower quality.  Study it out.

How shameful that anybody would expect to make a profit from health care.  All health care facilities and institutions should be non-profit. Doctors and nurses should at most be paid middle class wages.  What they lose in compensation they would gain with the respect of society.  That's the way it used to be.

[citation needed].  Good luck waiting for a hip replacement or a CABG, then.  You're on the death panel in twelve states!

I'll be careful then.

You'll be dead!

LOL, did you know that guy in the cantina scene was actually a doctor?

You Star Trek nerds are so adorable.  Did he go to medical school with Dr. Spock?

*nerdrage*

[princessleiagoldbikini.jpg] - I wish I were her gynecologist


Welp, that pretty much sums it up. THREAD OVER
 
2013-03-04 10:09:58 AM

MyRandomName: Uranus Is Huge!: Keep it up shiatheads. Really. Stories like these only hasten the march to a single payor solution.

Which would still have a lack of doctors. Doctors dont magically appear because you change the funding source.


As demand for doctors increases, so too will the number of people who go to school to become doctors.

So while it's not exactly magical, their appearance is an imminent consequence to changing the funding source.
 
2013-03-04 10:12:44 AM

verbaltoxin: So really communism failed because like anarchism, how do you get there? How long does it take to get there? Nobody really had an answer for that, and when they tried, you wound up with the USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, and so on. It turns out seizing and nationalizing the means of production puts all the power in the hands of a few guys, much like unchecked capitalism does.


Basically, pure systems are unattainable at any large scope.  Hong Kong did pretty well for what it was as the closest thing to a pure system for any significant entity, but was already too large in scope to truly operate purely.
 
2013-03-04 10:14:29 AM
Doctor.

If your goal is to simply get patients seen for their aliments, that can be done.
If your goal is to simply get patients treated for their ailments, that can be done.
If your goal is to get patients cared for by having access to not only primary care but a medical home that can manage all their comorbidities and referral to specialists, now you are stretching it.
If your goal is to get patients access to care providing all of the immediate above by an insured, board certified physician who has the time per visit to address each individual with dignity, respect and in an unhurried manner while assessing each potential diagnosis, therapy and outcome while being mindful of preventative care and following up with each after visits, you need a time machine.
If your goal is to get patients all of the immediate above done perfectly, every time or face immediate litigation that could cripple your ability to provide therapy to anyone, you need a time machine and the hope that statistics don't apply to you.

I can agree with a single payor system. I can get on board with accepting some reduction in reimbursement to care for patients some patients. I can not keep my doors open for 24 cents on the dollar.
 
2013-03-04 10:15:36 AM

BeesNuts: MyRandomName: Uranus Is Huge!: Keep it up shiatheads. Really. Stories like these only hasten the march to a single payor solution.

Which would still have a lack of doctors. Doctors dont magically appear because you change the funding source.

As demand for doctors increases, so too will the number of people who go to school to become doctors.

So while it's not exactly magical, their appearance is an imminent consequence to changing the funding source.


Our medical schooling will have to change if pay goes down.  Realistically, pay doesn't have to go down, though.  You take out the middleman inefficiencies(and hope the government doesn't add more inefficiencies to make up for it) and you still probably end up saving cash.  Regardless, the cost of medical school is stupid.  This is why we get so many foreign schooled doctors in the first place.  Damn near half the doctors and dentists I see in SoCal are schooled in the Philippines.
 
2013-03-04 10:19:14 AM
Yet another reason why single-payer healthcare is the only solution that will actually work.
 
2013-03-04 10:25:54 AM

verbaltoxin: Real Women Drink Akvavit: verbaltoxin: Communism, socialism...it's not capitalism, so it's wrong. That's the mentality of most Americans over 45. They spent their whole lives being conditioned to hate it, and so it's a trigger now.

It's going to be a relief when Americans can finally read and discuss Marx in the open without fear. I'm not even a hard-left person. It's just the man did write a pretty good critique on capitalism, and we're pretty much living out that critique today.

I have never read Marx. My Mom was trying so hard to "be American" we weren't even really allowed to rock the boat by reading or doing things the neighbors would frown on as they were unamerican or some BS. (Not that it did too much to stop us, but a book would have been seized) My Mom has chilled out a lot, so it's not a big deal anymore, but you're right about people over 45. I vaguely remember "nuclear drills" where we'd have to hide under our desks in case teh ebil communists lobbed bombs at us. Like a public school desk in the rough part of Los Angeles, that may or may not even have four unbent legs to hold it up, is going to protect us. If I hadn't spent summers in teh ebil soshulizms country of Norway to visit family, I'd have a VERY skewed view of it, too.

Which of Marx's books should I start with to get an idea of his POV? I have a Kindle, so I can probably download it free from Scribd or something like that. I like reading things like that from all POVs, not just the ones that I agree with.

If you want to start, find a good group of commies. No really. They have already waded into the weeds and can break down a lot of what Marx was saying before you even start reading. Personally I haven't gone deep into it yet, but I have read some good conversations which helped me understand the basics of communist theory.

The really, really, really dumbed-down version is this:

Marx believed capitalism would eventually be unsustainable. The upper classes would suck up all the wealth, the ...


Yep.  If you take one thing away from reading Marx, let it be this:

Marx didn't have any more to say on the merits of Communism than Adam Smith had to say on the merits of Capitalism.  These were two men, contemporaries, in fact, who were making observations of the economic climate around them.  Smith believed that Capitalism was an inevitable consequence of human ingenuity and our universal desire to better our condition (and uses *vast* amounts of historical and theoretical evidence to support this assertion).  Marx believed that Capitalism was indeed an inevitable economic condition.  However, he took it a step further and strayed off the reservation of observable reality and into raw hypothesis.

His hypothesis was that capitalism would continue to improve the conditions of all people for a certain, finite period of time.  At the end of this time, all wealth would begin to aggregate into the hands of fewer and fewer people until capitalism literally fell apart in the face of protracted, ubiquitous falls in consumer demand.  This failure would manifest itself in a spontaneous, global economic insurrection.

Smith believed that Capitalism was the consequence.  Marx believed it was a symptom.  As such, he believed that humanity would naturally purge it after it did enough damage to 'the system'.
 
2013-03-04 10:31:12 AM

BeesNuts: MyRandomName: Uranus Is Huge!: Keep it up shiatheads. Really. Stories like these only hasten the march to a single payor solution.

Which would still have a lack of doctors. Doctors dont magically appear because you change the funding source.

As demand for doctors increases, so too will the number of people who go to school to become doctors.

So while it's not exactly magical, their appearance is an imminent consequence to changing the funding source.


You need more Medicare residency slots in order for this to become a reality. That is the limiting factor in the pipeline. It's been set in stone since the late 1990s.
 
Displayed 50 of 74 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report