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(Vice)   Ever wonder what it's like being a social worker in the Tenderloin? "Today: 4 dead clients, 1 murdered provider, 1 client defecated in the lobby, 1 dead dog, & 1 Facebook friend posted pictures of nachos"   (vice.com) divider line 145
    More: Sad, tenderloin, social workers, harm reduction, Golden Gate Park, African-American neighborhood, substance dependence  
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12006 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 8:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 10:35:07 AM

Generation_D: I cannot understand why we open clinics to attract the addicted. It is only perpetuating their addiction.


The problem as I see it is, we think we can cure addiction, while all we can really do is shift an addiction.

CSB:

A friend was an addict (cocaine) when he decided to quit he went through all the programs narcanon etc.  He told me all narcanon did was make you addicted to meetings instead of cocaine, he said it was better, but he realized he would always be addicted to something.  Now he restores radios (I do as well that is how we met) from the 1920s-1950s that is his addiction, he told me he gets the same rush when he finds a rare radio and then finally gets it working as he did with cocaine.  So he is still an addict just a non-self destructive socially acceptable addict.

/CSB
 
2013-03-04 10:39:07 AM
Once upon a time I was a psychiatric social worker in the Bay Area.

I got the MSW degree. I worked at a halfway house, a county hospital's ER, a residential treatment program/school for severely emotionally disturbed children, and a community mental health clinic.

Now I'm a software developer. The money's better and I don't want to kill myself (as much).
 
2013-03-04 10:42:08 AM

enik: The awakening of a naive liberal. It will happen to the vast majority of Farkers eventually too.


Ah yes, let all the conservative Christians laugh at the naive liberal doing God's work.

/not like Jesus ever got criticized for spending all his time helping the bottom of society.
 
2013-03-04 10:42:23 AM
the tenderloin is a shiathole.

and yet, because its SF, it will still cost you $1500 a month to rent a studio apartment.

whether the tenderloin is better or worse than Oakland is unknown to me
 
2013-03-04 10:44:40 AM

Tom_Slick: Generation_D: I cannot understand why we open clinics to attract the addicted. It is only perpetuating their addiction.

The problem as I see it is, we think we can cure addiction, while all we can really do is shift an addiction.

CSB:

A friend was an addict (cocaine) when he decided to quit he went through all the programs narcanon etc.  He told me all narcanon did was make you addicted to meetings instead of cocaine, he said it was better, but he realized he would always be addicted to something.  Now he restores radios (I do as well that is how we met) from the 1920s-1950s that is his addiction, he told me he gets the same rush when he finds a rare radio and then finally gets it working as he did with cocaine.  So he is still an addict just a non-self destructive socially acceptable addict.

/CSB


a member of my family traded his cocaine addiction for an ebay addiction. $20k in debt later......ugh
 
2013-03-04 10:50:00 AM

megarian: I'm in my last semester for my Masters in Social Work... so I'm getting a kick...

Oh wait, no. No I'm not. Difficulty level: Detroit


I was going to post: Welcome to Detroit, but you are already here.  Enjoy.

SubBass49: If you think this was depressing, try being a public school teacher that serves a neighborhood like that.  Then imagine that these same people are the "parents" of the children you teach, and that sometimes the kids fall down that mineshaft of human existence right alongside them.

(have already caught 3 kids dealing drugs this school year in my classroom)

And with that I'm off to work!


Oh woe is you, since you are the one who follows up with home visits and the like.  No, oh that is right teachers call social workers and the police to take over.  Chances are, you're only guessing about their home life since you haven't actually seen it.  I had a teacher make a false call on me once, the CPS worker was surprised to see our house was clean and nice.  It's nice not having my kids around judgmental  educators anymore.

(even upscale areas having drug dealing in schools)
 
2013-03-04 10:50:45 AM
There was a time when most of these people were institutionalized:
www.richardavedon.com

While there certainly were many abuses and problems with the old system, it seems better than letting the disturbed, psychotic, or mentally inept wander the streets, begging for handouts, and dying in the cold. Instead of confronting the problem, we choose to look away and ignore it.

static.igossip.com

teamowens313.files.wordpress.com

As a society, we hardly blink an eye when we spend hundreds of billions to bomb other nations, yet we can't provide basic care for those who can't take care of themselves. We can do better.
 
2013-03-04 10:53:26 AM

Generation_D: Shake your head at peoples life choices, about all you can do really. I can't understand why someone would go get an $80,000 degree to work in a $32,000 job, and a thankless one full of stress at that


It's not like they have a choice. Universities, like a cancer, have metastatized into every facet of society. You want a 16$ an hour job? You need a bachelor's degree. It's not that you actually *need* it, or that you will use anything you have learned in real life, or that you can't learn that same stuff for free (libraries have been around for how many thousands of years?), it's that you need a degree because everyone else has one.

Sounds harmless until you run some number$. University is just a business like any other, with public relations and profit motives.

Universities run a private profit and socialize the debt.
 
2013-03-04 10:56:24 AM

organizmx: enik: The awakening of a naive liberal. It will happen to the vast majority of Farkers eventually too.

Ah yes, let all the conservative Christians laugh at the naive liberal doing God's work.

/not like Jesus ever got criticized for spending all his time helping the bottom of society.


Most xtians don't really believe what they would lead you to think they believe.
 
2013-03-04 10:58:46 AM

MrSteve007: Instead of confronting the problem, we choose to look away and ignore it.


Yeah but it's cheaper and Jersey Shore is on now.
/That last picture was like a gut punch, and I thought I was jaded...
 
2013-03-04 10:59:02 AM
Interesting to see and try and figure out "who is right" here. One side says, these are the people who we prop up with our tax dollars, some even going further to suggest that the problem is made worse by liberal policies. The other side is incensed with the interviewed social worker's callousness, indicating that she should move aside and allow someone with a bigger heart and kinder disposition to fill her shoes, some going further to say that she is wrong in exposing her clientele to the public eye (breaking some vow of trust).

I'm going to rely on the what the article said rather than what people think the article should have said, treating the points made as facts as best as the interviewee saw them.

She didn't out anyone specifically, so there was no breach of confidentiality. Her client base is too large to be able to guess whom she's talking about. So speaking in generalities, she was speaking truth to what is going on. Showing light to a troubled area should be noteworthy, not frowned upon. Oddly, even though she has little faith in her client base, she talks about them with more honesty and sympathy than you might expect. She specifically mentions that the conditions are horrible, and she can see why clients would rather be homeless. She specifically mentions that her clients have mental health issues related to very bad circumstances in life, and being poor and unwell, they turn to drugs, which sadly makes it worse.

Nowhere does she say they should all starve or be homeless, which is what the conservative-minded here seem to be implying - stop giving them money that feeds their addiction; you're only making it worse. And then what? They'll magically get jobs? Move back in with long-lost relatives so that they're not a burden on society? It's either that, or just watch them starve in the street. What I got from this is that we structurally don't know what to do with the mentally ill. From the article's commenters, who rightly say there are plenty of the sane homeless who are helped out by social services, you can see that our system does indeed help, and probably helps a majority leave their bad circumstances. But those who are chronically dependent are not helped. The best that happens is we maintain their living conditions until the bottom falls out for them (death). Maybe that's it. Maybe they can't be helped out of it. But it's sad that we can't figure out how to help the mentally ill in this country.
 
2013-03-04 11:00:29 AM
What a social worker might look like:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-04 11:12:51 AM

I'm an Egyptian!: megarian: I'm in my last semester for my Masters in Social Work... so I'm getting a kick...

Oh wait, no. No I'm not. Difficulty level: Detroit

Welcome to hell. Fear not, you will not be alone. It's one of the most soul-crushing, but at the same time, most rewarding fields you could get into.


My internship has been pretty difficult, shocking, and sad...

...but also extremely awesome, humbling, and rewarding.

Thank you for kind words. Much appreciated :)
 
2013-03-04 11:23:42 AM

JohnnyApocalypse: From the article's commenters, who rightly say there are plenty of the sane homeless who are helped out by social services, you can see that our system does indeed help, and probably helps a majority leave their bad circumstances. But those who are chronically dependent are not helped. The best that happens is we maintain their living conditions until the bottom falls out for them (death). Maybe that's it. Maybe they can't be helped out of it. But it's sad that we can't figure out how to help the mentally ill in this country.


For the most part, the homeless can be broken down into four categories:

-The financial down & outs. People who lost their job or hit with a major medical problem & bills. They're actively trying to get back on their feet, find jobs, housing and re-enter society.
-The addicted. Drugs or alcohol ruined their life, so they fully embrace their addictions. Frequently addicted women as prostitutes.
-The mentally-ill. These are the people who aren't able to take care of themselves or hold jobs. Often, they're deranged or schizophrenic. A small subset are former military. Addiction may also be an added problem.
-Tramps, vagabonds, and teen runaways. Mentally stable people who choose the lifestyle and don't want to fit into society. Teens may turn to additions, and likely would have let because of abuse.

I fully believe that if we made a real effort to reduce homelessness, we'd properly fund separate programs that address the separate above groups (with exception to the tamps and vagabonds, they're free to live the way they want). Each should be regarded as a separate population, with very specific needs and issues. Frankly, the program aimed to help people find housing and jobs shouldn't be the same one who tries to counsel of someone who eats their own excrement and thinks they hear Satan talking in their head, or have to work with people who are tripping out on meth or acid.
 
2013-03-04 11:24:17 AM

organizmx: enik: The awakening of a naive liberal. It will happen to the vast majority of Farkers eventually too.

Ah yes, let all the conservative Christians laugh at the naive liberal doing God's work.

/not like Jesus ever got criticized for spending all his time helping the bottom of society.


I don't see where laughing at anyone in CPS, is going to help anyone.  I get your point about conservatives and it is noted, but I see CPS simply someone who took the worse job possible(regardless if they are liberal or not).  Teachers pass problems onto them, the police are only involved for a short time when they have to.  CPS has to follow up with the case until either the child is no longer in danger or no longer a child.  They see the worse part of their community day in and day out and it is their job to try and fix it.  If you are to call yourself Christian, you should get yourself involved in those with needs.  My wife and I are trying to help a young single mom who doesn't know the basic parenting skills.  Her own mom doesn't help her and her grandmother asked us to help because she is a RN who puts in 48-60 hrs a week and can't keep up with her.  We got her to understand basic feeding beyond just bottle feeding, now we are trying to work on getting her to step out of mom's house and be a strong adult on her own.  Her mom only taught her to find a man and all will be well, which is why she has two kids by different men in less than two years and is now seeing a married man that already had his kids taken from him.  We want to prevent CPS from having to deal with this, they have enough on their plate.  I have seen people that I wished I could've helped, but I wasn't in the position to do anything.  I am now and I want to see it through.  Christian, but I really don't care about conservative or liberal political views.
 
2013-03-04 11:26:17 AM

Cold_Sassy: xanadian: FTFA: For the most part, people do not want help. They want money or they want drugs or they want death.
[assets.vice.com image 426x568]
What money or drugs or death may look like.

I had copied that quote for my post but you beat me to it.

That said, if she only makes 32k in S.F., she probably has to live in one of those 'residential' hotels.  God, what a depressing line of work.


But, hey, $32k for social work, GOBMINT OVERSPEDNING HURR
 
2013-03-04 11:26:20 AM

Happy Hours: xanadian: Pork or beef tenderloin?

I prefer a good chuck roast myself, though...

Yeah, what the fark is Tenderloin in the context of the headline?

I think it's a part of San Francisco, but I'm not sure. I just happen to know that - or think I know that, but I'm not sure. I'm guessing from the headline it's not a very good part of SF. Come to think of it, I'm not sure there are any good parts of SF. I've heard of Tenderloin (where people show up dead or murdered), Castro (where the gay people live NTTAWWT) and the Mission district ("walkin' along in the Mission, in the rain) where some guy missing part of his finger grew up, but I hear that's not a great place either.

/never been to Frisco, obviously - and I call it Frisco because I gather it pisses off the people who actually live in SF. (and it's shorter)


It's all of San Francisco.
 
2013-03-04 11:33:22 AM

JohnnyApocalypse: Interesting to see and try and figure out "who is right" here. One side says, these are the people who we prop up with our tax dollars, some even going further to suggest that the problem is made worse by liberal policies. The other side is incensed with the interviewed social worker's callousness, indicating that she should move aside and allow someone with a bigger heart and kinder disposition to fill her shoes, some going further to say that she is wrong in exposing her clientele to the public eye (breaking some vow of trust).


I read this as a subset of the population who interprets urban poverty and severe mental illness as somehow part of the world's beautiful diversity, a culture that should be respected and loved. If you disagree with the way things are and don't like stepping on broken needles on your way to work, "go back to suburbia".

As I see it, she isn't really judging the people, she's judging the situation, and it needs judgment. People left out in the cold eating their own feces, transgender prostitutes working for drugs, people dying in alleys, this is "farked up". It's not marginalizing or stigmatizing to call it out. A lot of these people are condemned to lives of fear, misery, indignity. "Go back to suburbia" is the same as saying "leave them for dead". "Keep this to yourself" is the same as saying "let them suffer in silence". Callousness may not help, either, but it's an understandable reaction after years of numbing exposure to it, and "understanding" from people with bigger hearts won't change anything, either. Anger and disgust might actually motivate people to do something.
 
2013-03-04 11:43:02 AM
But ... but ... it is Sate policy we must give away your money to Other People.  We  must.  WE MUST MUST MUST
 
2013-03-04 11:45:15 AM

megarian: I'm an Egyptian!: megarian: I'm in my last semester for my Masters in Social Work... so I'm getting a kick...

Oh wait, no. No I'm not. Difficulty level: Detroit

Welcome to hell. Fear not, you will not be alone. It's one of the most soul-crushing, but at the same time, most rewarding fields you could get into.

My internship has been pretty difficult, shocking, and sad...

...but also extremely awesome, humbling, and rewarding.

Thank you for kind words. Much appreciated :)


Glad to hear it. Just don't fall into the trap that you can save anyone. They're the only ones that can. All we do is create the circumstances to allow them to do that. It's like gardening. They give you the seed. You plant it, fertilize it, water, and do whatever you can to make it grow. In places like Detroit and other places, the soil sucks. It's all concrete, depleted soil, harsh climate, and easy to get trampled. But every so often, that seed you plant finds a way in the cracks, manages to scrape up the meager nutrients that are there, and starts to grow. If you're really lucky, you notice it isn't just growing, but it's flourishing. Every so often, you find a rose growing out of the concrete. If you can take a mental snapshot of that, and nuture it in your own mind, it helps to keep your head up amid the despair.

One of my old Zen teachers told me to be a Bodhisattva.Specifically, one of the ones that forsakes their own enlightenment to guide others along the way. In a way, that's what a social worker is. A Bodhisattva. We stand amid the muck so we can get others to climb out. Just be sure to take care of yourself along the way. Good luck to you. If you need anything, EIP.
 
2013-03-04 11:45:24 AM

Generation_D: you've created whole entire areas that are open-air psych wards.


That's not the fault of the psych workers, it's the fault of Regan closing the inpatient psychiatric hospitals in the 60
s-70s and not funding community care models.
 
2013-03-04 11:51:44 AM

calm like a bomb: organizmx: enik: The awakening of a naive liberal. It will happen to the vast majority of Farkers eventually too.

Ah yes, let all the conservative Christians laugh at the naive liberal doing God's work.

/not like Jesus ever got criticized for spending all his time helping the bottom of society.

Most xtians don't really believe what they would lead you to think they believe.


Yeah, even in a strong church, a lot of people are still 'in process'.  30 to 40% 'Know Jesus' and are doing his work.  The rest know about Jesus and are hoping for a 'prosperity gospel.' it seems.

Our church works alongside social workers when we travel downtown to look for homeless.  We meet with agencies, divide up the encampments and look for individuals.  We can break through with individuals and the workers are good at arranging housing and services.  We develop trust with the homeless and pass the trust along to the agencies.  That said, some of the social workers are Christian.

Our church usually has drunk, homeless, methadone patients, etc... Every once in a while, someone walks in bleeding.  We bandage people, do triage, feed, clothe and direct them to agencies.  But we're a small church.  40 people tops.  We're aware that we're probably not going to be a church that most people will bring their families to.

It's hard too.  We realize that we're not going to save everybody from their condition.  There's been a bunch of successes.  A guy finally gets housed after 12 years.  Another guy gives up drinking and gets a job and a place to live.  Another guy reconciles with his family & goes home to his kids.  Another guy has been outdoors for 27 years, he's likely not going to come inside.  Some folks are just used to it and prefer to live outside now.  I'm not a fan of warehousing someone just cause they think different.

Plus too, some folks are on housing lists with years long wait lists.  A lot of the housing they can afford with help is still disgusting.  Some guys have housing but won't live in it because of the filth.  Some folks that desperately want to live indoors don't fit the programs available.  There just isn't funding for some.

Just about everybody seems to do it out of love. But some workers have been doing it too long.  They've become hostile to the clients.  A lot of clients have some f'ed up behaviors and get banned out of shelters too.  You've got to love a guy and a girl even though you know they've beaten someone else you know with rebar.  You've got to love the people who are difficult to love.

You can't save everybody.  Doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
 
2013-03-04 11:55:09 AM

xanadian: Pork or beef tenderloin?


Happy Hours: Yeah, what the fark is Tenderloin in the context of the headline?


The Tenderloin is the part of San Francisco where the most down-on-their-luck people live. They aren't just living on the streets, but they're also in the fleabag hotels in the area. If you're from out of town, looking for drugs or a prostitute, and not particularly concerned about quality or safety (or whether your prostitute has a penis) that's where you go. And it's really quite convenient to the downtown business district.

One story is that district got the name because the cops that used to work in the Tenderloin could afford better cuts of meat...either through bribery or hazard pay for working the dangerous part of town. Another story is it is called the Tenderloin because it's the underbelly of the city.
 
2013-03-04 11:57:55 AM

MrSteve007: There was a time when most of these people were institutionalized:
[www.richardavedon.com image 850x519]

While there certainly were many abuses and problems with the old system, it seems better than letting the disturbed, psychotic, or mentally inept wander the streets, begging for handouts, and dying in the cold. Instead of confronting the problem, we choose to look away and ignore it.

[static.igossip.com image 550x440]

[teamowens313.files.wordpress.com image 620x408]

As a society, we hardly blink an eye when we spend hundreds of billions to bomb other nations, yet we can't provide basic care for those who can't take care of themselves. We can do better.


it is not society that spends money bombing nations. our government picks our pockets, stealing from paychecks before they are cashed. this government is owned and run by the wealthy powerful families that own the factories that make lots of money building things to kill people.
last week there was a linked article on FARK about a fighter jet program that cost $400 billion dollars. no one okayed that with me. and i doubt they asked for your input either.
IMHO our biggest problem is we're a nation full of firearm owners who point them at all the wrong targets.
you're right. we can do better. and i'd bet if things were run by regular every day good hearted slobs with the help of others to make sure power didn't go to their heads, we could have a frickin' Nirvana.
sick twisted greedy wealthy power hungry people will fark things up as long as we continue to let them do so.
 
2013-03-04 11:59:11 AM

MrSteve007: There was a time when most of these people were institutionalized:
[www.richardavedon.com image 850x519]

While there certainly were many abuses and problems with the old system, it seems better than letting the disturbed, psychotic, or mentally inept wander the streets, begging for handouts, and dying in the cold. Instead of confronting the problem, we choose to look away and ignore it.

[static.igossip.com image 550x440]

[teamowens313.files.wordpress.com image 620x408]

As a society, we hardly blink an eye when we spend hundreds of billions to bomb other nations, yet we can't provide basic care for those who can't take care of themselves. We can do better.


Wow, that last picture is heartbreaking.
 
2013-03-04 12:03:00 PM

I'm an Egyptian!: megarian: I'm an Egyptian!: megarian: I'm in my last semester for my Masters in Social Work... so I'm getting a kick...

Oh wait, no. No I'm not. Difficulty level: Detroit

Welcome to hell. Fear not, you will not be alone. It's one of the most soul-crushing, but at the same time, most rewarding fields you could get into.

My internship has been pretty difficult, shocking, and sad...

...but also extremely awesome, humbling, and rewarding.

Thank you for kind words. Much appreciated :)

Glad to hear it. Just don't fall into the trap that you can save anyone. They're the only ones that can. All we do is create the circumstances to allow them to do that. It's like gardening. They give you the seed. You plant it, fertilize it, water, and do whatever you can to make it grow. In places like Detroit and other places, the soil sucks. It's all concrete, depleted soil, harsh climate, and easy to get trampled. But every so often, that seed you plant finds a way in the cracks, manages to scrape up the meager nutrients that are there, and starts to grow. If you're really lucky, you notice it isn't just growing, but it's flourishing. Every so often, you find a rose growing out of the concrete. If you can take a mental snapshot of that, and nuture it in your own mind, it helps to keep your head up amid the despair.

One of my old Zen teachers told me to be a Bodhisattva.Specifically, one of the ones that forsakes their own enlightenment to guide others along the way. In a way, that's what a social worker is. A Bodhisattva. We stand amid the muck so we can get others to climb out. Just be sure to take care of yourself along the way. Good luck to you. If you need anything, EIP.


Wow. And thank you. Insta-favorited.
 
2013-03-04 12:03:21 PM
So, Hunter's Point is no longer the best place in SF to get yourself killed?
 
2013-03-04 12:07:20 PM

jylcat: Generation_D: you've created whole entire areas that are open-air psych wards.

That's not the fault of the psych workers, it's the fault of Regan closing the inpatient psychiatric hospitals in the 60
s-70s and not funding community care models.


Ding. Involuntarily committing people is absolutely a violation of their right to liberty and freedom of movement. What we realized much too late is that this restriction is reasonable in the face of the alternative.
 
2013-03-04 12:09:35 PM

megarian: I'm an Egyptian!: megarian: I'm an Egyptian!: megarian: I'm in my last semester for my Masters in Social Work... so I'm getting a kick...

Oh wait, no. No I'm not. Difficulty level: Detroit

Welcome to hell. Fear not, you will not be alone. It's one of the most soul-crushing, but at the same time, most rewarding fields you could get into.

My internship has been pretty difficult, shocking, and sad...

...but also extremely awesome, humbling, and rewarding.

Thank you for kind words. Much appreciated :)

Glad to hear it. Just don't fall into the trap that you can save anyone. They're the only ones that can. All we do is create the circumstances to allow them to do that. It's like gardening. They give you the seed. You plant it, fertilize it, water, and do whatever you can to make it grow. In places like Detroit and other places, the soil sucks. It's all concrete, depleted soil, harsh climate, and easy to get trampled. But every so often, that seed you plant finds a way in the cracks, manages to scrape up the meager nutrients that are there, and starts to grow. If you're really lucky, you notice it isn't just growing, but it's flourishing. Every so often, you find a rose growing out of the concrete. If you can take a mental snapshot of that, and nuture it in your own mind, it helps to keep your head up amid the despair.

One of my old Zen teachers told me to be a Bodhisattva.Specifically, one of the ones that forsakes their own enlightenment to guide others along the way. In a way, that's what a social worker is. A Bodhisattva. We stand amid the muck so we can get others to climb out. Just be sure to take care of yourself along the way. Good luck to you. If you need anything, EIP.

Wow. And thank you. Insta-favorited.


No worries. We social workers have to stick together. Welcome to the club.
 
2013-03-04 12:19:39 PM

onyxruby: If your not mentally stable enough to own a gun, you shouldn't be on the street to begin with.



That's one of the stupidest claims I've read in a long time.

Hopefully you'll be the one who makes the decisions because you sound tough enough to make the hard choices. Especially with respect to rehabilitation or permanent institutionalization versus euthanasia in order to minimizes costs.

Go to Hell.
 
2013-03-04 12:30:48 PM

Pangea: Hopefully you'll be the one who makes the decisions because you sound tough enough to make the hard choices.


Hard choices like working with doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists to have my ex-wife committed when she wasn't mentally stable (one that has a court record for threatening to kill her own child - something I learned after getting married)? Hard choices like going to hundreds of mental health meetings over the years to support a step-son that needed intensive mental health support instead of dumping him into a prison school where I wouldn't have to deal with him?

Hard choices like watching friends live on streets like that because they couldn't get the help they need, and helping a number homeless friends over the years when were willing to let someone help them out?

Hard choices, yeah, I think I know a thing or two about them. Now you can take judgmental self righteous ass and pack it right back into the ivory tower you came from.
 
2013-03-04 12:34:07 PM

Generation_D: I cannot understand why we open clinics to attract the addicted. It is only perpetuating their addiction. I would be fully in favor of hospital care, but nobody wants to pay for that, we're too busy paying for prison care instead.


Half our population can't find a dime to help someone but they can find a lot more than that to punish someone.  It's the save a baby, kill a doctor mentality.  If you give someone a couple bucks to try and find food or a roof then they are worthless welfare farks so you throw them in jail and pay the wealthy and well connected lots of taxpayer money so you don't have to deal with them - that's moral.

The truly naive and willfully ignorant mindset.  But then again I'm so tired of this argument I really don't care who kills who anymore.  Give everybody a gun and let them fend for themselves.  Just get it over with and STFU.
 
2013-03-04 12:39:30 PM
SHUT UP LITTLE MAN
 
2013-03-04 12:40:17 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: "For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me."

It's truly disheartening that we can't find a little more for those who work so hard for those who do not, and may not ever be able to thank them. <b>That people lucky enough to have never worried about a roof over their heads or food on the table cannot muster any compassion and justify it in every way possible.</b> It's the little people like this, fighting every day to hold back the tide that give us hope. They save lives and families.


When Mitt made snide remarks about the 47% this is exactly what was going on. There's a lot of truth in the old adage (and hideous glam-rock song title) "you don't know what you've got `til it's gone". Do most folks ever sit and truly ponder the mechanics of having feet? Nope. The feet are there and Joe Schmoe's usin' `em to walk!

It's easy to hate ignorance or be upset by it. When it comes to folks unable to have compassion for these folks, well, I see it as an expected mammalian response. Think about it like little kids' fear of very old people. There's nothing "wrong" with the old person to an adult. They're a typical old person. To a kid, there's something very wrong with the old person and it's instinct for the kid to be repulsed. Prior to our wonderful, soft society, such an instinct could save the kid's life. You don't want to be poking around a fellow mammal that coughs a lot. You could get sick.

Most adults learn to accept old people. The elderly won't normally make us sick. Adults in or near their primes see most old people as just "run down" or "tired". That is no threat and we can thus accept the old. We add on a human perspective over time and can have compassion, even empathy, for old people. The compassionate or empathic "human" reaction to an old person is learned over time through repeated exposure to the elderly (as one hurdles towards old age oneself).

See a nude transgender rolling backwards in a wheelchair down a hill yelling at people while toking a crack pipe, and chances are the unholy roller will trigger a few of those mammalian aversion cues and we usually never get to the part about compassion. Such an event is also likely to have induced a strong enough aversion response, that the viewer learns to avoid such an individual quickly, and may even enact steps to ensure that he or she won't have a similar experience in the future. A lot of folks don't experience the Tenderloin conditions on a regular basis and will have zero common ground on which to build compassion or empathy. And they won't stick around for further "exposures"...

TL;DR - Mammals sniff mammals and keep moving if the scent is wrong. It's perfectly normal and was once upon a time vital to human survival.
 
2013-03-04 12:43:04 PM

onyxruby: Hard choices, yeah, I think I know a thing or two about them. Now you can take judgmental self righteous ass and pack it right back into the ivory tower you came from.


Nothing about your depressing back-story makes your original claim any less false.  Not everyone who is unfit to own a gun belongs locked away in an institution.

The fact that you've been around mental health programs for years should only serve to make you more cognisant of that reality, not less.
 
2013-03-04 12:54:11 PM
Lagaidh: See a nude transgender rolling backwards in a wheelchair down a hill yelling at people while toking a crack pipe...

That was simply fantastic.
 
2013-03-04 12:58:49 PM
Yes, that's the San Francisco I know and loathe.
 
2013-03-04 01:00:55 PM

megarian: Lagaidh: See a nude transgender rolling backwards in a wheelchair down a hill yelling at people while toking a crack pipe...

That was simply fantastic.


Indeed, an utterly awesome yet depressing mental picture all at once.
 
2013-03-04 01:01:03 PM
Either way, I'd murder for a fat, juicy steak right about now...
 
2013-03-04 01:01:29 PM

organizmx: enik: The awakening of a naive liberal. It will happen to the vast majority of Farkers eventually too.

Ah yes, let all the conservative Christians laugh at the naive liberal doing God's work.

/not like Jesus ever got criticized for spending all his time helping the bottom of society.


This girl is helping Teabaggers?
 
2013-03-04 01:02:23 PM

Pangea: onyxruby: Hard choices, yeah, I think I know a thing or two about them. Now you can take judgmental self righteous ass and pack it right back into the ivory tower you came from.

Nothing about your depressing back-story makes your original claim any less false.  Not everyone who is unfit to own a gun belongs locked away in an institution.

The fact that you've been around mental health programs for years should only serve to make you more cognisant of that reality, not less.


That or I gave a person with mental illness a chance and stood by her and my stepson when things took a turn for the worse.

Did you know there are people that actually take things like marriage vows seriously?
 
2013-03-04 01:02:57 PM
As a social worker by trade, I understand some of what this woman is going thru.  I cannot do that work.  Too soft.  It would destroy me.

2 new farky social workers favorited now though
 
2013-03-04 01:12:56 PM

Felix_T_Cat: We're aware that we're probably not going to be a church that most people will bring their families to.


Universalists!??

/i keed
 
2013-03-04 01:14:04 PM

onyxruby: Pangea: That or I gave a person with mental illness a chance and stood by her and my stepson when things took a turn for the worse.

Did you know there are people that actually take things like marriage vows seriously?



I take my marriage vows seriously too. You're intentionally avoiding the issue, which was me challenging your original statement: "If your not mentally stable enough to own a gun, you shouldn't be on the street to begin with."

I believe that is patently incorrect, and imagine that you do as well in retrospect because you're trying to divert your argument into something entirely different.

It's entirely reasonable to assume that you misspoke because you're so emotionally involved in your own experience with the mental illnesses of two specific people. Your situation sucks and good on you trying to make it work; it's not your fault. I think we're done here though.
 
2013-03-04 01:14:08 PM

madgonad: onyxruby: Lee Jackson Beauregard: FTFA: Why are my clients so farked up? Traumatic backgrounds, PTSD, and severe mental illness (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and dementia are the most frequent cases we see). And whenever you combine a drug habit with compromised mental health, you usually get a mess of a brain.

Is the NRA still in favor of proper psychiatric care?

Not a member of the NRA, but someone who has known people with severe mental health issues.

If your not mentally stable enough to own a gun, you shouldn't be on the street to begin with. We closed down the institutions in the name of humanity and this was the real world result.

People like these described once received medical and psychiatric care as well as having a roof over their head and meals to eat. Their quality of life was far higher than today.

We need to open the institutions, run them humanely, get people like these off the street and make psychiatric care readily available. We can do all of this to take care of our own without trampling on second amendment rights.

No, to be specific, Reagan closed down the institutions because he was cheap, thoughtless, and wanted his rich donors that ran private facilities to get even richer.

It didn't take long for those people to max-out their potential benefit and then they would spend the rest of their lives bouncing from the streets to jail/prison.


Reagan could only have done that for California - not all of the US.  I think the whole initiative was kicked off by the 'Patient's Rights' movement that the ACLU spearheaded.  State governments (of both parties) siezed on this as a chance to trim budgets.

Something does need to be done about how to take care of the truly mentally ill and disabled.  In my state (Kansas) funding was cut a few years ago for group homes.  Now, between the hours of 9AM and 3PM, everyone living in a KS sponsored group home has to leave since there will be no nurse on site to help watch everyone.  Regardless of weather.  Or level of care needed. Period.

The governor that approved that cut - Kathleen Sebielius.  Even if Sam Brownback (R) had done it, I'd still consider it wrong.
 
2013-03-04 01:32:26 PM
I'll see that and raise you a half sister who works in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver, doing interventions on people too crazy for the police to handle. Picture it: you've got some guy with every mental malady made known to man AND a skull full of every drug known to man who has been taking hefty gulps from the can of paint thinner he found and is now highly convinced that the Decepticons are trying to steal one of his penises. The cops have tried to reason with him and gotten nothing but torrents of obscenity alternating with screaming gibberish and he is now running around shrieking nonsense and knocking things over and such. So they send for my half sister. Working there has given her a disposition comparable to Judge Dredd. She's got the frown down pat, anyway. I always thought the best thing for areas like this would be to take all the shattered hulks of people who live there and put them in some facility deep in the countryside where they can be looked after properly. Like one of those institution things that one used to see. That would never fly, of course. Not in the Yew Ess Of Ay, where survival of the fittest is the order of the day. Can't have no retards getting mollycoddled, no sir. Make them get out there and fight for their daily bread like everyone else, that's the 'Murikan way. If they can't do that because the world is just a mad blur to them, why, it's their fault for not being loved enough by Gawd.
 
2013-03-04 01:35:31 PM

IlGreven: onyxruby:

We need to open the institutions, run them humanely, get people like these off the street and make psychiatric care readily available. We can do all of this to take care of our own without trampling on second amendment rights.

The lack of humaneness of these institutions is what got them shut down in the first place.  Which means that's the trick to the thing, because otherwise most people are going to think the kind of people that would need these places are better off on the street.


Exactly. What society is basically trying to cure is humanity's inhumanity towards its own. Everyone seems to believe that they know the "trick" to making that happen. However, those who bother to read history know that every trick in the book has already been tried and none of them work perfectly. No matter what solution one tries there will be people who abuse the situation. That seems to be, sadly, a part of human nature or at least the core nature of some humans.
 
2013-03-04 01:39:18 PM
And this... this is why I can't stand the city of San Fransisco.

Are there other cities that are as bad or worse? Of course. None are as pretentious as San Fransisco.
 
2013-03-04 01:44:00 PM

504_King_streetcar: Not in the Yew Ess Of Ay, where survival of the fittest is the order of the day. Can't have no retards getting mollycoddled, no sir. Make them get out there and fight for their daily bread like everyone else, that's the 'Murikan way. If they can't do that because the world is just a mad blur to them, why, it's their fault for not being loved enough by Gawd.


The liberal side of this is that we can't detain these misunderstood individuals just because they're a little different. The humane thing to do is let them go on and walk the streets freely, even if it means that half of them will eventually abandon treatment and freeze to death in a ditch full of used needles or end up shot by the cops after they try to shove somebody in front of a subway train. A life of confusion and terror is a civil right guaranteed by the Constitution. Verily, it is a bipartisan shiatpie.
 
2013-03-04 01:44:25 PM

MrSteve007: ]

As a society, we hardly blink an eye when we spend hundreds of billions to bomb other nations, yet we can't provide basic care for those who can't take care of themselves. We can do better.


We can do better but we don't want to do better. There are two ways to feel superior to others: a) build yourself up or b) tear others down. As a nation we stopped doing a) a long time ago and have stuck exclusively with b) because it is both easier and cheaper.

You see, in order to do "better" American society has to posses a unified vision of what is "better". We don't. We hate each other. So the only way to hold society together is find a common enemy to tear down. We can't agree to love our neighbor so we keep together by agreeing to hate that fellow over there. Works like a charm.
 
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