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(CNN)   Cardinal: Here's my two weeks' notice. Pope: No, you're fired today   (cnn.com) divider line 63
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20782 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2013 at 5:27 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 08:36:35 AM  

Grungehamster: Baron Harkonnen: AverageAmericanGuy: It's never too late to do the right thing, Ratzinger.

This guy has been hunting down sexual predators in the Church for a very long time. This is something he took it upon himself to do, not something he was forced to do.

Define "hunting down sexual preditors". Yes, Benedict XVI personally asked John Paul II to redirect all sexual abuse by priest cases to his office at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith back in 2001. However, one of his first acts was to send out a letter to every bishop on 5/18/2001 instructing them that while sexual molestation is a sin it is also sinful to contact local authorities to report lapses of moral judgement on the part of priests, instead saying all such crimes should be reported to his office and that they would handle the matter appropriately. Some people see it as him taking ownership of the issue, while other people see it as intentionally encouraging the coverup of sexual abuse cases by centralizing response to protect those priests who did it. Nobody can point to any cases where someone was defrocked before a secular source revealed that abuse was happening so far as I know.


WHAT!  I guess the Catholic church has officially removed themselves from true teachings of Christ.  Christian beliefs are very clear, the law of the land is to be obeyed.  We teach that even if it is a higher priesthood man disobeys a law, he is to be turned in to the authorities.  It is stated in the scriptures.  Just yesterday we were discussing military service since we were told not to fight and kill.  We are not to enlist, but if drafted we go and if the reason for the war is wrong, then the sin is on the government not the soldier following orders.  The stuff about the Catholic priest is definitely news to me, but I never thought they took an official stance to call busting a criminal a sin.  That is telling the victims, as they are still pulling up their pants, you can't talk because you'll be put to death for ever.  Those guys really are just making up their own rules.  They have something in common with Brigham Young.
 
2013-03-04 09:05:32 AM  

lack of warmth: Grungehamster: Baron Harkonnen: AverageAmericanGuy: It's never too late to do the right thing, Ratzinger.

This guy has been hunting down sexual predators in the Church for a very long time. This is something he took it upon himself to do, not something he was forced to do.

Define "hunting down sexual preditors". Yes, Benedict XVI personally asked John Paul II to redirect all sexual abuse by priest cases to his office at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith back in 2001. However, one of his first acts was to send out a letter to every bishop on 5/18/2001 instructing them that while sexual molestation is a sin it is also sinful to contact local authorities to report lapses of moral judgement on the part of priests, instead saying all such crimes should be reported to his office and that they would handle the matter appropriately. Some people see it as him taking ownership of the issue, while other people see it as intentionally encouraging the coverup of sexual abuse cases by centralizing response to protect those priests who did it. Nobody can point to any cases where someone was defrocked before a secular source revealed that abuse was happening so far as I know.

WHAT!  I guess the Catholic church has officially removed themselves from true teachings of Christ.  Christian beliefs are very clear, the law of the land is to be obeyed.  We teach that even if it is a higher priesthood man disobeys a law, he is to be turned in to the authorities.  It is stated in the scriptures.  Just yesterday we were discussing military service since we were told not to fight and kill.  We are not to enlist, but if drafted we go and if the reason for the war is wrong, then the sin is on the government not the soldier following orders.  The stuff about the Catholic priest is definitely news to me, but I never thought they took an official stance to call busting a criminal a sin.  That is telling the victims, as they are still pulling up their pants, you can't talk because you'll be put to death for ever.  Those guys really are just making up their own rules.  They have something in common with Brigham Young.


To play devil's advocate, it doesn't say "make sure your congregations know that priests are above secular law and you damn your soul to hell for questioning them." It's hard to read it saying anthing at all; it was in Italian, and even translated it is still full of legalese.

You can read it here. From my understanding it basically says that if the bishop catches wind of sexual abuse (or desecration of the Eucarist) this is to be reported to the Vatican for a proper hearing, and that these cases are subject to pontifical secret.
 
2013-03-04 09:12:42 AM  
And to further clarify: the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops created the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People in 2002, which required reporting allegations to proper authorities. I was just taking issue with the "Ratzinger was a champion of taking down child molesters" claim; yes, he did take the issue of sex abuse head on, but he did so in a way that looks more like a CYA move for the church itself than an actual attempt to uncover sex offenses.
 
2013-03-04 09:21:17 AM  

Relatively Obscure: "To those I have offended, I apologize and ask forgiveness."

You didn't just offend them, dickhead.  You didn't say something rude at a party.


I know that it won't happen, but I'd like nothing more than to see the complete collapse of the catholic church in my lifetime.

It almost makes me want to breed, so that at least one of my family gets to witness it directly.

If this were happening within any other global organization, how long would, say, Microsoft last? (company chosen for global market penetration exposure adoption monopoly, oh bugger fark sod it, never mind, there's no way I can't pun this to death)
 
2013-03-04 09:31:53 AM  

TopoGigo: As per usual, the word "defrocked" appeared nowhere in the article.


This.
 
2013-03-04 09:35:16 AM  
Grungehamster:

To play devil's advocate, it doesn't say "make sure your congregations know that priests are above secular law and you damn your soul to hell for questioning them." It's hard to read it saying anthing at all; it was in Italian, and even translated it is still full of legalese.

You can read ithere. From my understanding it basically says that if the bishop catches wind of sexual abuse (or desecration of the Eucarist) this is to be reported to the Vatican for a proper hearing, and that these cases are subject to pontifical secret.


That still comes across the same way to me.  Law of the land means local law.  You are held to the laws of Wala Wala Washington if that is where you robbed a bank.  If I get caught by a church member doing what these guy's have been up to, I will be reported to the police here.  Then a meeting with the Elder Priesthood will determine if I am to be removed from Church.  Not whisk me to another place in the world where the victim cannot be satisfied that justice was carried out.  That may not be 'legalese' for above the law, but that sure is going around the law.  The Vatican is not proper law in the US, nor is it proper law in any place in the world outside the Vatican.  The US has the policy that US citizens face the laws of the place they committed the crime, as it should be.  For a church to declare itself Christian it should first refer to the rules laid down by Christ, not some other document.  Christ stopped one of his Apostles from fighting for His safety, because to fight for Jesus' protection didn't just mean he would not have been sacrificed but also it is sinful to fight local law by force.
 
2013-03-04 09:35:58 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Bio-nic: If the catholic church would eliminate the vows as requirements for priests/nuns I honestly think 80 - 90% of this would be fixed.  The other 10% would be in jail.... but most of the problem would be fixed.

Doubt it.   There's no vow of celibacy required to become a school teacher, and we have a dozen new teachers a month helping themselves to some forbidden underage naughtiness.  As far as sheer numbers of perpetrators, gradeschool teachers have priests beat by a country mile.  This wouldsuggest that a vow of celibacy is not what turns one into a molester.


Yeah, I think it's a lot more likely that pedophiles seek out the priesthood -- not that the vows make them perverts. The optimist in me wants to say they may have identified their urges as unacceptable and became priests in an attempt to hold the desires at bay. The cynic in me thinks they become priests because of the easy access to kids and the trust and authority present in the relationship.
 
2013-03-04 09:54:12 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-04 10:30:13 AM  
farking adults-that's a firing offense.
farking kids-relocation, at worst a lateral move.
 
2013-03-04 01:23:54 PM  

sno man: feckingmorons: You know there is no Pope right now.

this. and...

"I wish to take this opportunity to admit that there have been times that my sexual conduct has fallen below the standards expected of me as a priest, archbishop and cardinal,"

CELIBACY was hard to understand, really? REALLY?


Understand? No. Follow? Yes.

People forget priests are human, too, with all-too real human urges and weaknesses. Being ordained gives them a mandate to deny these urges, but not superpowers to do so.

I'm not defending immoral acts, BTW. I just don't think consenting, adult sex between men or a man and woman is immoral. Mandated celibacy is a perversion of God's gift of sexuality.

Except of course among Farkers. Sex among Farkers is immoral. Dirty, dirty Farkers.

/apparently feeling a tiny bit less agnostic today. Tomorrow's outlook is cloudy.
 
2013-03-04 01:46:02 PM  

brimed03: sno man: feckingmorons: You know there is no Pope right now.

this. and...

"I wish to take this opportunity to admit that there have been times that my sexual conduct has fallen below the standards expected of me as a priest, archbishop and cardinal,"

CELIBACY was hard to understand, really? REALLY?

Understand? No. Follow? Yes.

People forget priests are human, too, with all-too real human urges and weaknesses. Being ordained gives them a mandate to deny these urges, but not superpowers to do so.

I'm not defending immoral acts, BTW. I just don't think consenting, adult sex between men or a man and woman is immoral. Mandated celibacy is a perversion of God's gift of sexuality.

Except of course among Farkers. Sex among Farkers is immoral. Dirty, dirty Farkers.

/apparently feeling a tiny bit less agnostic today. Tomorrow's outlook is cloudy.


You're going to hell for saying that.
 
2013-03-04 05:55:42 PM  
Pope said "Nope"
You heard it here, folks!
 
2013-03-04 10:52:46 PM  

brimed03: I'm not defending immoral acts, BTW. I just don't think consenting, adult sex between men or a man and woman is immoral. Mandated celibacy is a perversion of God's gift of sexuality.


I am not part of this religion (or any other) but you are a shining example of what a good christian should strive to be.
 
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