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(LA Times)   911 dispatcher "Is there anybody that's willing to help this lady and not let her die?" Nurse at senior living center "Um, not at this time"   (latimesblogs.latimes.com) divider line 438
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23483 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2013 at 9:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-04 01:23:52 AM

chookbillion: Spaghetti Eatin' Goombah: Birnone: I wasn't aware that dispatchers could 'talk' you through CPR.  I thought people got certified in that, taking classes and such.

I'm guessing further information will show that the 87 year old resident had other issues that would have made it a moot point anyways.  It's not like simply doing CPR saves everyone.

I found a guy lying next to my neighbor's house (it was the pest control guy).  No pulse, no breathing, no heartbeat, ashen gray in color.  911 dispatcher talked me through CPR (had never done it before, but sort of new the basics) which I performed on the guy until the EMTs arrived.

Dude died.

Dude was dead when you found him.


Yeah, probably but still, good on ya man, for trying.  Many people wouldn't have.
 
2013-03-04 01:24:09 AM

tripleseven: ByOwlLight: WhoGAS: Acravius: Here is CPR: 30 compressions 2 breaths,
                      Repeat 5 times in approximately 2 minutes
                      Assess patient for 10 seconds, listening/looking/feeling for pulse, breath or rise/fall in chest.
                      If no change, resume CPR
                      If AED is available then hook up AED, (Turn On, listen to instructions)
                      Shock, as advised by AED
                      After 3 shocks maximum
                      Assess Patient, as before
                      If no change Resume CPR 5 cycles per 2 minutes, repeat until more qualified personelle come on the scene.
Good Samaritan Laws protect people who use reasonable actions in performing these duties, regardless of outcomes.

So yes it could be instructed over the phone, and still be covered by the Good Samaritan Law.

You don't do breaths any more.

Yes, you do.  30 to 2 is the new standard.  The emphasis is on compressions, now, but breaths haven't been completely cut out, unless you don't feel comfortable doing them.

I took my CPR course when I was 14 in the 80's and they taught us 2 breaths, 15 compressions.

Never been recertified or whatever.  Maybe I should.


Not a bad thought.  I would say that a first-aid course is probably more useful.
 
2013-03-04 01:24:33 AM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Seems like a stupid policy.  Are they worried that their staff will do it wrong?  Is it a liability thing?  I'd have to imagine they could should hire people that are qualified to do things like this, especially being a senior living center and all.

Also: The elderly woman was identified by KGET-TV as 87-year-old Lorraine Bayless. She died Tuesday at Mercy Hospital Southwest, KGET reported.

It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.  If this had been a child, or a healthy person that should have some time left on the clock, I'd be pretty disgusted.


You're a despicable human being.
 
2013-03-04 01:25:49 AM

Colin O'Scopy: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Seems like a stupid policy.  Are they worried that their staff will do it wrong?  Is it a liability thing?  I'd have to imagine they could should hire people that are qualified to do things like this, especially being a senior living center and all.

Also: The elderly woman was identified by KGET-TV as 87-year-old Lorraine Bayless. She died Tuesday at Mercy Hospital Southwest, KGET reported.

It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.  If this had been a child, or a healthy person that should have some time left on the clock, I'd be pretty disgusted.

You're a despicable human being.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-04 01:26:13 AM
Iblame the lawyers.
 
2013-03-04 01:28:25 AM

ChrisDe: Saw that on the news today. The woman that called 911 was more concerned about following the rules (no CPR) and keeping her job than the life of another person. And she was a nurse. Pretty sad, though I guess it's easy to say when it's not me being fired.


Welcome to America. I'm sure the free market will sort it out eventually.
 
2013-03-04 01:33:05 AM

ZeroCorpse: People don't become doctors or nurses, or join the medical profession at all these day because they want to help people and save lives. These days, they do it because they want lots of money.

It's a disgrace that we even use the words "nurse" and "doctor" to describe these greedy animals. They bring dishonor to the words.


Gee thanks! Got any racism to go with your broad brush?

Also, many nurses don't make a whole lot of money.
 
2013-03-04 01:42:27 AM

PsychoPhil: CPR is surprisingly not very effective:
"So, if an average adult keels over in the street, is found unresponsive and pulseless by a bystander, and is administered CPR while a 911 call is made, the odds that such a person will emerge from the eventualities of the resuscitation effort healthy and with a normally functioning brain are about 2%. "


Important point:  *FOUND UNRESPONSIVE*.  The odds are better if the person is observed going down.
 
2013-03-04 01:46:02 AM

Rik01: Sometimes, you have to make a judgment call. You have to determine what is more valuable: your job or a human life.


I'd  put it another way.  Which would make you feel better:  having a job, or having a memory of saving someone's life?

Hint:  nobody ever bought me a drink for having a job.
 
2013-03-04 01:48:22 AM

Colin O'Scopy: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Seems like a stupid policy.  Are they worried that their staff will do it wrong?  Is it a liability thing?  I'd have to imagine they could should hire people that are qualified to do things like this, especially being a senior living center and all.

Also: The elderly woman was identified by KGET-TV as 87-year-old Lorraine Bayless. She died Tuesday at Mercy Hospital Southwest, KGET reported.

It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.  If this had been a child, or a healthy person that should have some time left on the clock, I'd be pretty disgusted.

You're a despicable human being.


Hey, the old lady's daughter seems cool with it.  What's your beef?
 
2013-03-04 01:50:09 AM
this sounds like a situation for 15L O2 non rebreather,

if breathing stops apply BVM and monitor for change in pulse.

if heart stops begin cpr

worked as ambulance dispatcher for a couple years.

the most common reply to our crews arriving on scene to a nursing home was "not my patient"

I'll die alone in the woods before wasting away in one of those hell holes
 
2013-03-04 01:50:39 AM

Medic Zero: ZeroCorpse: People don't become doctors or nurses, or join the medical profession at all these day because they want to help people and save lives. These days, they do it because they want lots of money.

It's a disgrace that we even use the words "nurse" and "doctor" to describe these greedy animals. They bring dishonor to the words.

Gee thanks! Got any racism to go with your broad brush?

Also, many nurses don't make a whole lot of money.


Man, no one bit on it and then you did.
Let the trolls be.
 
2013-03-04 01:52:58 AM

The One True TheDavid: If we're ever going to bring the population down this kind of "heartless callousness" is exactly what we need.

Of course we could teach and encourage birth control in schools starting in 6th grade and make sure abortion is safe, legal and easily obtainable on demand for every pregnant female. Oh, and "doctor assisted suicide," "death with dignity" and/or "voluntary euthanasia" might help too.

But failing those common-sensical measures, yeah, let's stand idly by while somebody's granny keels over. Maybe we can herd everybody over 50 into death camps (starting of course with me after friday). "Boots on the ground" anywhere Islam runs rampant would help too. We might also use subliminal programming to encourage people to gun down strangers at shopping malls, theaters and (even better) elementary schools. After all if we're not going to limit births we should encourage deaths, right? "Viva la muerte!"

I remember when the world's population hit 3 billion, 4 billion people ago; I was entering puberty then. Now I'm almost 50 and you breeders STILL haven't learned restraint. God must love stupid people, He increases them exponentially. After all when we've picked this planet clean we can just move the rich & famous to another planet a few hundred light-years away and start the cycle all over again. AMIRITE?!?!?!!?

/ Drunk and cynical. And constipated.


I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

/ Favorited.
 
2013-03-04 01:54:03 AM
"She died Tuesday at Mercy Hospital Southwest."

Words no longer mean things.

Please buy a can opener and a Glock.

And rotsa ruck.
 
2013-03-04 01:58:45 AM

djh0101010: The patient was breathing.  You only do CPR on a pulseless non-breather.  CPR is not the right treatment for that situation.  Oxygen and maybe even to bag them, yes, but the nurse was completely correct not to start CPR on a breathing patient.


This.

CPR breaks ribs.  If a heart is beating, CPR will stop it.

CPR should only be done if the victim has no pulse.  If the victim is not breathing and has a pulse, then make sure the airway is not constricted and begin artificial respiration.
 
2013-03-04 02:08:53 AM

Yogimus: I am sure a breating 84 year old is much better off without a nurse slamming on her chest.  Besides, CPR works less than 1% of the time.


Not true.
 
2013-03-04 02:10:39 AM
Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?
 
2013-03-04 02:20:35 AM

Loucifer: I'm pretty sure CPR has never worked.


In fact, it just might be the greatest threat to human life that mankind has ever known...

...you know, based on the thread to this point.
 
2013-03-04 02:28:28 AM
For many seniors, especially those without family, the payment (trade-off) to the nursing home, is all their assets, including their home. The nursing home loses money for every day that the 'guest' lives.
 
2013-03-04 02:29:53 AM

Flakeloaf: NightOwl2255: I was in the waiting room of Mercy hospital here in Oklahoma City. A guy pulled up by the doors, opened the car door and made it about half way to the doors of ER and passed out. He was laying maybe 25 feet from the doors. The people working in the ER called 911. They would not go outside and get him. Me and two other guys walked out and picked him up and carried him into the ER and he was treated. I asked a nurse WTF? She told me that they normally have ambulance crew onsite, but if they are out on a run the policy in this situation is to call 911, they are not allowed to walk out of the doors to help anyone.

/Dude lived, low blood sugar.

Several good reasons for that:

- The hospital's insurance policy does not cover any care given outside of the building. Even if the patient is brought inside, the care given by the hospital started outside (cf. "the care given by the paramedic before the patient was handed over to the hospital inside the hospital building") so the insurance company isn't responsible for when something goes wrong.
- A nurse is not a paramedic. They don't have advanced life support equipment, training, insurance and most importantly, the help of a second paramedic.
- The ER nurse is responsible for everyone in the ER. If he turns his back to go outside and play paramedic, and someone inside has a grievous change of condition, that's his ass. Even if there was someone else there. Even if every RN, RPN, HCA and agency jackoff with stolen scrubs and a forged green card were crammed into the ER. The insurance company and the lawyers will say the level of care was diminished because someone who was required to be there farked off to someone else's job after specifically being told not to.


Short version: it really is a liability issue, at least here in OKC.
 
2013-03-04 02:30:45 AM

Gulper Eel: If I'm reading this bit on the California good samaritan law correctly, it looks to me that the nursing home could've been sued to the eyeballs - not for trying the CPR, but if something else went wrong somewhere along the line.


Looks like a bill to correct that insanity has been enacted.  http://www.johnbenoit.com/pdfs/Benoits_Good_Samaritan_law_signed.pdf
 
2013-03-04 02:32:49 AM

nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?


Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.
 
2013-03-04 02:36:39 AM

BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?

Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.


You say that now, but your not a 87 year old having a heart attack, nor are you standing there watching your mother die.

Saying you would now is easy.
 
2013-03-04 02:38:05 AM

rga184: ChrisDe: Saw that on the news today. The woman that called 911 was more concerned about following the rules (no CPR) and keeping her job than the life of another person. And she was a nurse. Pretty sad, though I guess it's easy to say when it's not me being fired.

Correction: she has a piece of paper with a title on it. In reality, she's barely a human being. MOST nurses I know wouldn't think of losing their job over saving the life of a patient.

On the other hand, CPR on an 87 year old outside the hospital...never a gods outcome, oftentimes worse than death, because they revive you so you can spend there months in the ICU and die anyway. I'd give the nyse a pass if this is what she was thinking about, although if the patient didn't have a DNR order, it's her duty to do so. Ironically enough though, if she did that, she'd have to still choose rules over patient's best interest.


My 90 year old grandmother went through something sorta similar. After getting out of the hospital she hung on for another few months and during that time dementia really kicked in. I'm sure being completely paranoid and combative is what she would've wanted though.
 
2013-03-04 02:42:22 AM

nmemkha: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?

Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.

You say that now, but your not a 87 year old having a heart attack, nor are you standing there watching your mother die.

Saying you would now is easy.


Yes, it is easy now.  My mother died in 1995, as I watched.  It was the best thing that could have happened to her, and I'd have been a poor son had I clung to her.
 
2013-03-04 02:52:04 AM

djh0101010: The patient was breathing.  You only do CPR on a pulseless non-breather.  CPR is not the right treatment for that situation.  Oxygen and maybe even to bag them, yes, but the nurse was completely correct not to start CPR on a breathing patient.


Could have been agonal breathing, in which case you would be correct to begin CPR.
 
2013-03-04 02:52:59 AM

BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?

Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.

You say that now, but your not a 87 year old having a heart attack, nor are you standing there watching your mother die.

Saying you would now is easy.

Yes, it is easy now.  My mother died in 1995, as I watched.  It was the best thing that could have happened to her, and I'd have been a poor son had I clung to her.


I see your point, and I think it's each person's decision to make. This lady didn't have a DNR.

/sorry about your mom
 
2013-03-04 02:53:13 AM

BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?

Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.

You say that now, but your not a 87 year old having a heart attack, nor are you standing there watching your mother die.

Saying you would now is easy.

Yes, it is easy now.  My mother died in 1995, as I watched.  It was the best thing that could have happened to her, and I'd have been a poor son had I clung to her.


...and then, some families are a bit to eager to be done with the person that has become an inconvenience.

It cuts both ways. Which is why I intend to check myself out, before that decision has to fall to anybody else...

/Brave words, for somebody not on their death bed.
 
2013-03-04 02:56:28 AM
Stupid nurse. She should have a made a deal with Mephisto and sacrificed her marriage to save the old woman! It's the only way!
 
2013-03-04 03:01:03 AM
Thus the coming norm in our ever increasing litigous society.  No good deed goes unpunished these days
 
2013-03-04 03:05:43 AM

Gdalescrboz: Thus the coming norm in our ever increasing litigous society.  No good deed goes unpunished these days


As I stated earlier, it was a money thing, and nothing else.
Not every person with a nursing degree, is Florence Nightingale.
I don't think anybody has ever been successfully sued for having their attempt at emergency CPR not work.
 
2013-03-04 03:08:02 AM
Medic Zero ChrisDe: Saw that on the news today. The woman that called 911 was more concerned about following the rules (no CPR) and keeping her job than the life of another person. And she was a nurse. Pretty sad, though I guess it's easy to say when it's not me being fired. Welcome to America. I'm sure the free market will sort it out eventually.

Wait, what? It's gov't intrusion in to daily events like this that has actually caused it.  Maybe if our justice system wasn't so quick to award families $10million for "pain and suffering" caused by someone trying to help out their fellow man we wouldnt see companies instituting policies like this.
 
2013-03-04 03:12:32 AM

Gdalescrboz: Medic Zero ChrisDe: Saw that on the news today. The woman that called 911 was more concerned about following the rules (no CPR) and keeping her job than the life of another person. And she was a nurse. Pretty sad, though I guess it's easy to say when it's not me being fired. Welcome to America. I'm sure the free market will sort it out eventually.

Wait, what? It's gov't intrusion in to daily events like this that has actually caused it.  Maybe if our justice system wasn't so quick to award families $10million for "pain and suffering" caused by someone trying to help out their fellow man we wouldnt see companies instituting policies like this.


It has very little to do with that.
Fact is, the nursing home loses money for every day that patient stays alive.
I used to work at one.
"Free market capitalists", are the REAL "death panels".
 
2013-03-04 03:13:47 AM
Yeah. CPR has a lifesaving potential of about 5%. That's because it's mostly applied to very old people in hospital-like situations who are about to die anyway.
 
2013-03-04 03:17:13 AM

Guess_Who: Obamacare


I was about to leave this post depressed.

This gave me life.
 
2013-03-04 03:18:09 AM
What moron is coming up with these percentages regarding CPR?
 
2013-03-04 03:20:51 AM

herdgirl72: Unbelievable. I don't care what my workplace policy is. If that lady was Full Code and not DNR, I'm a nurse, i should do CPR. I'd rather lose my job than my license.


Perfect.
 
2013-03-04 03:28:04 AM

Abacus9: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?

Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.

You say that now, but your not a 87 year old having a heart attack, nor are you standing there watching your mother die.

Saying you would now is easy.

Yes, it is easy now.  My mother died in 1995, as I watched.  It was the best thing that could have happened to her, and I'd have been a poor son had I clung to her.

I see your point, and I think it's each person's decision to make. This lady didn't have a DNR.

/sorry about your mom


Thank you.

Whatever contract this lady had with the facility did not oblige it to do more than was done, as far as we know.  Since this "call 911 only" policy seems to be of great importance to the operators who drummed it into employees, I assume it was communicated to customers who agreed to it.  The fact that the daughter is not screaming for someone's head reinforces my surmise; but perhaps she just wasn't in the mood to make trouble immediately after her mother's death.

Under common law, a property owner has a duty to rescue invitees - people who are on his property with his permission.  (He can watch trespassers DIAF with impunity.) However, a contract could nullify that duty or limit it to calling 911.

It's a fact that most people don't have to lift a finger to save your life.
 
2013-03-04 03:30:56 AM
You think the nurse who stood by and watched an elderly patient die is horrible? When you find stories about how children of 8 or 9 years of age have successfully used CPR to save people's lives, you will realise that the nurse is even more horrible than you think she is:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/volney_boy_8_uses_cpr _t o_save.html

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-04-19/us/arizona.boy.saves.sister_1_che st -compressions-cpr-resuscitation?_s=PM:US

To think a child can have the knowledge and courage to do what a trained nurse wouldn't do- it just leaves me with a double handed facepalm in shock at how callous people can be.
 
2013-03-04 03:31:25 AM
 
2013-03-04 03:36:46 AM

Bumblefark: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?

Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.

You say that now, but your not a 87 year old having a heart attack, nor are you standing there watching your mother die.

Saying you would now is easy.

Yes, it is easy now.  My mother died in 1995, as I watched.  It was the best thing that could have happened to her, and I'd have been a poor son had I clung to her.

...and then, some families are a bit to eager to be done with the person that has become an inconvenience.

It cuts both ways. Which is why I intend to check myself out, before that decision has to fall to anybody else...

/Brave words, for somebody not on their death bed.


"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's difficult." Isaac  Asimov.
 
2013-03-04 03:59:11 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Whatever contract this lady had with the facility did not oblige it to do more than was done, as far as we know. Since this "call 911 only" policy seems to be of great importance to the operators who drummed it into employees, I assume it was communicated to customers who agreed to it.


True, I just think it's a stupid policy. She should have had a choice in the matter (maybe she did, I don't know). I know you don't even need to be certified to perform CPR, it's not considered a medical procedure, but a first aid thing. Of course, a paramedic or doctor would be certified to do even more. I know that CPR wouldn't have been the thing to do while she was still breathing, but wasn't she dead by the time the ambulance got there? Her heart stopped at some point, and that's when it could have been administered.

Also, I know that it normally can break ribs and all, but I'm pretty sure there is a gentler procedure for small children and the elderly.
 
2013-03-04 04:04:52 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I'm going to sound cold here, but the woman was in her late 80s. Sometimes its just a person's time to go.

The operator sounds like a spaz, from the way she's portrayed in the article. "It's a human being" Yes, and human beings die all the time. You can't be Superman and save everyone all the time.


Thread is TL;DR, but this is exactly my sentiment.

There's far too much hysteria focused on 'saving' someone's life, when that person is already, most certainly, just about to die naturally.

My grandfather was kept vegetative for his last 10 years  because his wife, then daughters were sentimental enough not to let the guy die in dignity.

He led his men out of a Japanese torture camp, taking a high ranking officer's ceremonial sword as trophy, ffs. having his diaper changed twice a day by some ex-convict orderly was horrifying for me, never mind him.

I hope they rot in hell for such egotism.
 
2013-03-04 04:09:00 AM

NotoriousFire: ByOwlLight: PsychoPhil: But the issue here is CPR wasn't appropriate, and likely wouldn't have done squat, anyway. I mean, what next, you yell at the tow truck driver for not jump starting your car when it has a flat tire?

I fail to see how it wasn't appropriate.  "She was old" is not a good enough answer.


Have you missed the numerous sources already cited that question the use of CPR on a breathing individual? Barely breathing, yes, but not gasping, etc. Is that not enough for you to possibly question that the on-scene person made possibly the right call?


Well yeah, they've watched House. They KNOW these things.

/has DNR as of recently
//lemme go in peace
/if it's long term drug the ever living fark out of me - I love drugs
 
2013-03-04 04:10:27 AM

Abacus9: BarkingUnicorn:

Also, I know that it normally can break ribs and all, but I'm pretty sure there is a gentler procedure for small children and the elderly.


Not really - it's pretty much the same. If you have an infant and a two rescuer situation, you can switch to two thumb squeeze, but you're still compressing 1/3 of the chest depth in any situation.

The times I've done it I'm pretty sure I've broken ribs on every one. It's hard to miss that crunchy feeling. Sorta gives you the creeps. It does make it a lot easier to compress after that, though.

I've got ACLS, PALS and BLS certifications as the putative king of security at work, although none of us have ever coded thank FSM, we've got a Zoll but no rescue drugs other than a tank of O2 and a bag mask. I have done it three times 'in the wild', one lived, but he ROSC'd about round 2 and woke up a few minutes later.
 
2013-03-04 04:15:03 AM
Ugh, the nursing home hate is strong in you farkers. I never bite, but this is my one sore spot, and now I got all riled up.

YES, there are a lot of shiathole nursing homes that are old people warehouses. YES, there are plenty of staff that work in them and don't deserve to. However, don't paint them all with the same brush. I've worked in dementia care for almost ten years, and it's not something I ever plan on giving up. We don't make tons of money and pretty much the entire world looks down on us, but it's the greatest thing I've ever experienced. I feel honored to be let in to these people's home to share their most fragile moments.

Despite the crappy experiences that many people have had, there really are LTC facilities where the staff is caring, well-educated, and capable of not being cruel morons. There are facilities that are clean and well managed and lack asinine rules, with a lot of various diversions to keep the natives happy.

I love my career as a nursing home nurse and find it to be a deeply rewarding experience. Whenever I lose someone, it rips a piece of my heart away. I can imagine the stress the person in the article (not sure if real nurse or if the reporter decided on that title for LOLs), because I've been there before, although I like to think I've handled it in a more professional manner.

The most precious moments are when they remember my name.
 
2013-03-04 04:22:50 AM
My granddad is at a nursing home right now. If he died from something that could have been prevented but the nursing staff wasn't willing to do anything about I would not sue them.
I would brain them with a hammer.
My granddad deserves better.
 
2013-03-04 04:26:01 AM

Medic Zero: ChrisDe: Saw that on the news today. The woman that called 911 was more concerned about following the rules (no CPR) and keeping her job than the life of another person. And she was a nurse. Pretty sad, though I guess it's easy to say when it's not me being fired.

Welcome to America. I'm sure the free market will sort it out eventually.


Because in the non-free market there aren't any rules and procedures that must be followed to a T? The same government that won't let you cut a tree blocking your driveway until an environmental review has been completed is the same type of regulation that a nurse in an old folks home might be under from her evil free market people.

I watched people from NASA install the wrong parts on non-flight critical systems because independent thinking will get you written up and sometimes fired. The check-list is there for a reason, and so is your brain. The answer is the woman should have helped as a human and if she'd been fired the outrage would have been against her employer.
 
2013-03-04 04:32:43 AM

BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: BarkingUnicorn: nmemkha: Don't Troll Me Bro!:  It's hard for me to blame someone for deciding not to throw away their job (possibly career) to keep an 87y/o "alive" for a couple more years at most.

What if it was your mother? Or you? Would you feel the same?

Yes, I would.  An 87 year-old who survives such an incident is very unlikely to enjoy her remaining days.

Much of the dying's suffering is caused by their survivors.

You say that now, but your not a 87 year old having a heart attack, nor are you standing there watching your mother die.

Saying you would now is easy.

Yes, it is easy now.  My mother died in 1995, as I watched.  It was the best thing that could have happened to her, and I'd have been a poor son had I clung to her.


Did she die alone and sacred on the floor of some two-bit care facility as people just stood and gawked at her?

Would you have been pissed if she had?
 
2013-03-04 04:38:33 AM

pedobearapproved: Forecaster18: My father spent the last 6 months of his life in two separate nursing homes - one which showed little interest at all as he suffered from an accidental Fentanyl overdose, and another that showed little interest as he became disoriented from a near fatal UTI.  (Repeated infections did later help claim his life.)  I can't imagine the horrors people go through who DON'T have family visiting them every day.

My grandmother had some pains, and she didn't know why. It was kidney stones, but the doctor didn't do any testing for it. His words "she's old, pain's a part of that." We fired him that day. Got another doctor the next day, he treated her and she felt so much better. Not getting the treatment you want, fire the bums! If I had a parent or grandparent in the place in this article they would be out ASAP.


We fired the first place after he fell and broke his ankle.  The second place was one of the best rated in the state (shudder) and was the only place for counties around equipped to handle his needs, perform physical therapy (a losing prospect, turns out), and both had space and would work with medicare/private insurance.

Elder care is an embarrassment in this nation.  My dad struggled with huge health problems his entire life, so much so that it is a minor miracle he didn't die before they could even have me.  My mom supported the family and Dad did everything he could to the point of exhaustion to help however he could.  They did everything right, scrimped and saved, put two kids through college, and my mom damn near lost her retirement to get Dad onto medicaid when medicare was about to run out.  If he had died 12 hours later, the conversion of her account would have gone through and more than halved her retirement income - the only other option the lawyer gave (knowing it wouldn't be taken) is divorce.  I'm an atheist, and if I consider anything about this nation sinful, it's for-profit healthcare.
 
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