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(Yahoo)   That phenomenal payday for Joe Flacco? Yeah, he should probably tip Rahim Moore. Handsomely   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 51
    More: Obvious, Joe Flacco, Ravens, Broncos, QBR, Steelers, New Orleans Saints, Green Bay, M/U/C  
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1877 clicks; posted to Sports » on 03 Mar 2013 at 7:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-03 03:01:46 PM
Ugh. Do not remind me. Another "Jacksonville" for the Broncos. PAIN.
 
2013-03-03 03:50:47 PM
I won't get over that loss until the Broncos win a playoff game.
 
2013-03-03 05:08:42 PM
Yeah - that never happened to any other big quarterback. They never had help from the opposing defense.
 
2013-03-03 07:15:32 PM
As opposed to when Tim Tebow throws an overtime touchdown because of bad coverage, then it's TEBOW MAGIC.

Also, one play clearly explains how they won the division, and beat the Patriots, and the 49ers, and had the best on the road record of any team that season.

Clearly.

vygramul: Yeah - that never happened to any other big quarterback. They never had help from the opposing defense.


Oh, and this.
 
2013-03-03 07:36:35 PM
Meh, The year before Lee Evans dropped the game winning td to put the Ravens in the superbowl. Sometimes these type of things have a way of evening out.
 
2013-03-03 08:04:37 PM
20 mil a year? Really?
 
2013-03-03 08:06:21 PM
Someone call an abo, that guy has overdosed on haterade.
 
2013-03-03 08:06:45 PM
Any time you can pay a guy who's not in the top 10 in any metric at his position more than everyone else who plays it, you have to make that move.
 
2013-03-03 08:12:25 PM
Teams like the Ravens and 49ers don't need an elite QB.  They just need someone who won't throw the game away.

I'm honestly shocked that they payed him that much.  He's worth about 1/2 that.
 
2013-03-03 08:27:59 PM
By this logic, the Chargers were three plays away from being in the playoffs last season.  It doesn't matter, because they screwed up those three plays.  That's how football works.
 
2013-03-03 08:29:16 PM

IAmRight: Any time you can pay a guy who's not in the top 10 in any metric at his position more than everyone else who plays it, you have to make that move.


This. I don't hate Flacco, in fact, good on him for getting paid, but if Moore knocks it down and Baltimore bows out in the first round there would be a zillion Raven fans screaming in the offseason HE GOT PAID WHAT???  How can they can be relevant for long with his salary and the cap?

nmrsnr: As opposed to when Tim Tebow throws an overtime touchdown because of bad coverage, then it's TEBOW MAGIC.


No, that's Ike Taylor and Ryan Mundy pulling a Rahim Moore.
 
2013-03-03 08:40:04 PM
Ahhh, post super bowl butthurt.
Rahim Moore screwed up, Flacco took advantage, and we're supposed to feel like Flacco is a lesser player because of it.

Next time play better.
 
2013-03-03 08:48:53 PM

SilentStrider: Ahhh, post super bowl butthurt.
Rahim Moore screwed up, Flacco took advantage, and we're supposed to feel like Flacco is a lesser player because of it.

Next time play better.


You can feel however you want. Bottom line is if that pass gets knocked down Flacco doesn't pull 20 mil a year.

That's pretty much the point of the "butthurt" from the article.
 
2013-03-03 09:00:33 PM

IAmRight: Any time you can pay a guy who's not in the top 10 in any metric at his position more than everyone else who plays it, you have to make that move.


Apparently, Super Bowl trophies, postseason wins, and bombs dropped for giant plays in big games are not "metrics."

Whatever that means.
 
2013-03-03 09:08:59 PM
By that logic, Tom Brady owes a small part of his big contract to John Kasay.
 
2013-03-03 09:22:45 PM

the biggest redneck here: IAmRight: Any time you can pay a guy who's not in the top 10 in any metric at his position more than everyone else who plays it, you have to make that move.

Apparently, Super Bowl trophies, postseason wins, and bombs dropped for giant plays in big games are not "metrics."



Flacco isn't an "elite" fantasy QB.  That's what he means.
 
2013-03-03 09:24:46 PM

Thoguh: the biggest redneck here: IAmRight: Any time you can pay a guy who's not in the top 10 in any metric at his position more than everyone else who plays it, you have to make that move.

Apparently, Super Bowl trophies, postseason wins, and bombs dropped for giant plays in big games are not "metrics."


Flacco isn't an "elite" fantasy QB.  That's what he means.


I get it, but there are no Lombardis for that mess.

And NFL franchises play for Lombardis, so by that "metric" he's worth the contract. That's what I mean.
 
2013-03-03 09:39:31 PM
It is common knowledge that the best QB is always the highest paid and wins the Super Bowl every year.

Also, I look forward to Rodgers getting some massive contract next season leaving the team's defense to be the rotting but nicely endorsed corpse that it already is.
 
2013-03-03 09:49:02 PM

js34603: You can feel however you want. Bottom line is if that pass gets knocked down Flacco doesn't pull 20 mil a year.


Yes, he would. He'd just be pulling it for the Browns or the Chiefs.
 
2013-03-03 09:58:34 PM

IlGreven: js34603: You can feel however you want. Bottom line is if that pass gets knocked down Flacco doesn't pull 20 mil a year.

Yes, he would. He'd just be pulling it for the Browns or the Chiefs.


He's far too good for the Browns. He's not "QB of the Future" material. The Chiefs on the other hand....
 
2013-03-03 10:16:48 PM

js34603: SilentStrider: Ahhh, post super bowl butthurt.
Rahim Moore screwed up, Flacco took advantage, and we're supposed to feel like Flacco is a lesser player because of it.

Next time play better.

You can feel however you want. Bottom line is if that pass gets knocked down Flacco doesn't pull 20 mil a year.

That's pretty much the point of the "butthurt" from the article.


Saying "But what if this happened?" is pointless. It didn't. The Ravens scored that TD. Then went on to win the Super Bowl, in large part thanks to Flacco.
 
2013-03-03 10:43:51 PM
Well, just being a Superbowl winning QB sells a bunch of jerseys.
 
2013-03-03 11:16:54 PM
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-04 12:25:50 AM
Rahim Moore?  I was told repeatedly that the loss was Peyton Manning's fault...
 
2013-03-04 04:00:44 AM
Seriously, it amazes me that all of the greatness Flacco accomplished happened literally because a defensive player for the Donks is the dumbest f*cker in the world, ever.
 
2013-03-04 04:03:11 AM
By the way, Joe Flacco is better than Eli Manning. He's slightly below Roethlisberger/Brees right now, but he's also still young.

So, overpaid? Sure, but not by the degree some believe...

I think he's going to do a lot better in the next few years.
 
2013-03-04 04:07:15 AM
One more statement: Flacco had one of the better Super Bowls for a QB in recent years. That pass to Troy Smith in the front right corner of the endzone that was incomplete because of defensive PI was an example of how freaking good he was that night. That, and the throw to Boldin down the sideline.
 
2013-03-04 07:09:33 AM
Keep crying.  It will undo the score.
 
2013-03-04 10:26:19 AM
And if Rahim Moore's mom had been born with testicles, she'd be his dad.  Who wrote that article, Jim Harbaugh?
 
2013-03-04 10:47:16 AM
A detailed analysis of the contract: "In 2013, Flacco will get a fully-guaranteed $29 million signing bonus and a $1 million base salary. In 2014, he's due a $15 million option bonus (guaranteed for injury) and a $6 million base salary. In 2015, it's a $7 million option bonus (guaranteed for injury) and a $4 million base salary. In 2016, he will earn an $18.2 million base salary. In 2017, the base salary increases to $20.6 million, and in 2018, it's a $20 million base."

That means a few things: 1) in the 2013 season his salary cap number is pretty low, allowing Ravens flexibility; 2) $52M is guaranteed, the rest might never happen - Brees got $60M guaranteed, Brady got similar; 3) It's over 6 years so it looks big, but it will be restructured - in the 4th year the salary cap hit will be $29M, so unless the salary cap goes waaaay up, they'll have to restructure him or cut him.

Manning is getting $18M/year.  Rivers is getting $15.6M/year.  No way you could justify paying Flacco less than Rivers, and the PR hit you'd take for not re-signing him would be immense.  Look at Miami to see what a team without a real QB looks like - they've been wandering in the wastelands for a decade.
 
2013-03-04 11:29:58 AM

cefm: A detailed analysis of the contract: "In 2013, Flacco will get a fully-guaranteed $29 million signing bonus and a $1 million base salary. In 2014, he's due a $15 million option bonus (guaranteed for injury) and a $6 million base salary. In 2015, it's a $7 million option bonus (guaranteed for injury) and a $4 million base salary. In 2016, he will earn an $18.2 million base salary. In 2017, the base salary increases to $20.6 million, and in 2018, it's a $20 million base."

That means a few things: 1) in the 2013 season his salary cap number is pretty low, allowing Ravens flexibility; 2) $52M is guaranteed, the rest might never happen - Brees got $60M guaranteed, Brady got similar; 3) It's over 6 years so it looks big, but it will be restructured - in the 4th year the salary cap hit will be $29M, so unless the salary cap goes waaaay up, they'll have to restructure him or cut him.

Manning is getting $18M/year.  Rivers is getting $15.6M/year.  No way you could justify paying Flacco less than Rivers, and the PR hit you'd take for not re-signing him would be immense.  Look at Miami to see what a team without a real QB looks like - they've been wandering in the wastelands for a decade.


It's definitely a deal built for restructuring - at a time when the highest paid players now on the team will be ending careers: Ngata, Suggs, Yanda to name a few.
 
2013-03-04 02:18:15 PM

the biggest redneck here: IAmRight: Any time you can pay a guy who's not in the top 10 in any metric at his position more than everyone else who plays it, you have to make that move.

Apparently, Super Bowl trophies, postseason wins, and bombs dropped for giant plays in big games are not "metrics."

Whatever that means.


Thank you.

IAmWrong ignores Flacco has:

-- The most wins in the last 5 seasons of any NFL QB
-- The most playoff wins in the last 5 seasons
-- The most playoff wins to start a career (first 5 years) than anyone ever

And he ignores that it took two ex-Ravens -- Evans and Cundiff -- farking up horribly to keep BAL out of last year's Super Bowl as well, in that game in Foxboro where Flacco again outplayed Brady.

And don't forget, he just tied Montana for the best -- statistically -- post-season of any QB ever. 11 TDs to zero picks, and a ring.

And, that vaunted BAL defense that "carries" the offense? They were ranked 17th this year. That's the bottom half.

Is he a top-ten fantasy QB? Never. Is he a top-5 starting QB? Sure looks like it now. And even if you don't buy that, is he that much better than any available replacement? Absolutely.
 
2013-03-04 02:38:33 PM

Scrotastic Method: the biggest redneck here: IAmRight: Any time you can pay a guy who's not in the top 10 in any metric at his position more than everyone else who plays it, you have to make that move.

Apparently, Super Bowl trophies, postseason wins, and bombs dropped for giant plays in big games are not "metrics."

Whatever that means.

Thank you.

IAmWrong ignores Flacco has:

-- The most wins in the last 5 seasons of any NFL QB
-- The most playoff wins in the last 5 seasons
-- The most playoff wins to start a career (first 5 years) than anyone ever

And he ignores that it took two ex-Ravens -- Evans and Cundiff -- farking up horribly to keep BAL out of last year's Super Bowl as well, in that game in Foxboro where Flacco again outplayed Brady.

And don't forget, he just tied Montana for the best -- statistically -- post-season of any QB ever. 11 TDs to zero picks, and a ring.

And, that vaunted BAL defense that "carries" the offense? They were ranked 17th this year. That's the bottom half.

Is he a top-ten fantasy QB? Never. Is he a top-5 starting QB? Sure looks like it now. And even if you don't buy that, is he that much better than any available replacement? Absolutely.


Technically he's tied with Brady for most playoff wins in the first 5 years. And I believe Montana did it in 3 games, not 4 so I'd say Montana's was a little better.

However, most road playoff wins by a QB in NFL history. Also, in the top 10 in history for most seasons with 12 or fewer INTs (500 pass minimum).
18 TDs and 2 INTs in his last three playoffs. (8 games, 6-2 W/L)
 
2013-03-04 02:40:46 PM

Scrotastic Method: IAmWrong ignores Flacco has:

-- The most wins in the last 5 seasons of any NFL QB
-- The most playoff wins in the last 5 seasons
-- The most playoff wins to start a career (first 5 years) than anyone ever


Good job, you're just arguing the "all he does is win" sh*t that we all laugh at when people say it about Tebow.
 
2013-03-04 02:43:44 PM

IAmRight: Scrotastic Method: IAmWrong ignores Flacco has:

-- The most wins in the last 5 seasons of any NFL QB
-- The most playoff wins in the last 5 seasons
-- The most playoff wins to start a career (first 5 years) than anyone ever

Good job, you're just arguing the "all he does is win" sh*t that we all laugh at when people say it about Tebow.


Except Tebow can't even start in front of Greg McElroy. Welcome to 2011. Nobody says "he's a winner!" if the guy doesn't play.
 
2013-03-04 02:46:37 PM

Scrotastic Method: Except Tebow can't even start in front of Greg McElroy. Welcome to 2011. Nobody says "he's a winner!" if the guy doesn't play.


And welcome to 2013+, where you'll be paying Joe Flacco more than the dozen QBs that are better than him as you're not winning any more Super Bowls.

/but at least you got the one this year, which is really all you need as a fan
//doesn't mean the team had to pay that much for it, though
 
2013-03-04 03:58:06 PM

IAmRight: you'll be paying Jo

e Flacco more than the dozen QBs that are better than him

Again, "better" means what. If it's playoff and road wins and Super Bowl rings, there aren't a lot of guys that can touch him. If it's 5,000-yard seasons and top-5 fantasy stats, well, ask Matthew Stafford and Drew Brees how comfy their couch was after Week 17.
 
2013-03-04 04:03:19 PM

IAmRight: Scrotastic Method: Except Tebow can't even start in front of Greg McElroy. Welcome to 2011. Nobody says "he's a winner!" if the guy doesn't play.

And welcome to 2013+, where you'll be paying Joe Flacco more than the dozen QBs that are better than him as you're not winning any more Super Bowls.

/but at least you got the one this year, which is really all you need as a fan
//doesn't mean the team had to pay that much for it, though


Most wins by ANYONE across *5* years.
Most post-season wins in first *5* years EVER. (Tied)
Most road playoff wins EVER.
18-2 TD - INT in three years worth of playoffs (half a season's worth of games)
4 years with 12 or fewer INTs. (Top 10 of all time)
Super Bowl MVP
Outplayed Brady in Foxborough in the AFC Championship 2 years straight.

That's not just half a season of luck. That's a guy playing great football in the games that matter most.

And I'm sure you said the exact same thing about Flacco 3 months ago: "he'll never win one". We'll see. By the way, Rodgers, Brees, and Peyton all only have one. And how many NFC Champ games have Brees/Rodgers been to? Flacco's been to three in the AFC.
 
2013-03-04 04:04:33 PM

IAmRight: Scrotastic Method: Except Tebow can't even start in front of Greg McElroy. Welcome to 2011. Nobody says "he's a winner!" if the guy doesn't play.

And welcome to 2013+, where you'll be paying Joe Flacco more than the dozen QBs that are better than him as you're not winning any more Super Bowls.

/but at least you got the one this year, which is really all you need as a fan
//doesn't mean the team had to pay that much for it, though


Also, Flacco's 2013 cap hit is $6.8m.
 
2013-03-04 04:12:12 PM

Deneb81: Also, Flacco's 2013 cap hit is $6.8m.


Well that means...nothing.

Deneb81: Most wins by ANYONE across *5* years.
Most post-season wins in first *5* years EVER. (Tied)
Most road playoff wins EVER.
18-2 TD - INT in three years worth of playoffs (half a season's worth of games)
4 years with 12 or fewer INTs. (Top 10 of all time)


Wins stat
Wins stat
Wins stat
"Doesn't f*ck up a lot"

Look, Flacco's a decent QB. He's not worth nearly what he thinks he is or what you seem to think he is. He's Eli Manning with half the complete luck so far and a not-so-famous last name.
 
2013-03-04 04:13:51 PM
For reference, Mark Sanchez was the guy who was up there with the "road playoff wins" and "playoff wins in first few seasons" and "beat Tom Brady in the playoffs" "stats."
 
2013-03-04 04:23:57 PM

IAmRight: For reference, Mark Sanchez was the guy who was up there with the "road playoff wins" and "playoff wins in first few seasons" and "beat Tom Brady in the playoffs" "stats."


And Flacco's got a 5 year track record, not two years of sitting behind a defense then crumbling.

He's got two years of sitting behind a defense then three more with a 6-2 record with 18 TDs and only two picks. He also not just beat Brady, but outplayed him twice. One win was mostly defense. One loss was a balanced game where the Pats D made a play and a WR dropped a ball he should have caught. The next win Flacco again had better stats.

The bottom line is that he has flaws like every QB but played remarkably well in the playoffs for years, and won at least 10 games a year in the regular season to get there.

After a point it's not easy to attribute just to luck.
 
2013-03-04 04:25:41 PM

IAmRight: Deneb81: Also, Flacco's 2013 cap hit is $6.8m.

Well that means...nothing.

Deneb81: Most wins by ANYONE across *5* years.
Most post-season wins in first *5* years EVER. (Tied)
Most road playoff wins EVER.
18-2 TD - INT in three years worth of playoffs (half a season's worth of games)
4 years with 12 or fewer INTs. (Top 10 of all time)

Wins stat
Wins stat
Wins stat
"Doesn't f*ck up a lot"

Look, Flacco's a decent QB. He's not worth nearly what he thinks he is or what you seem to think he is. He's Eli Manning with half the complete luck so far and a not-so-famous last name.


TDs to INT ratio is just a 'win stat'?

What the fark stats actually matter in your crazy ass world? Because wins are pretty important, and winning regularly for long periods of time is a pretty good indicator for talent.
 
2013-03-04 04:42:05 PM

Deneb81: TDs to INT ratio is just a 'win stat'?


Oh, I'm sorry, your "half a season" spread over three years is totally legitimate and not cherry-picking. The first three were win stats, the last two were "doesn't throw tons of INTs" stats.
 
2013-03-04 04:45:23 PM

Scrotastic Method: And, that vaunted BAL defense that "carries" the offense? They were ranked 17th this year. That's the bottom half.


Clearly their 15th-ranked passing offense was what carried them.
 
2013-03-04 05:00:24 PM

IAmRight: Scrotastic Method: And, that vaunted BAL defense that "carries" the offense? They were ranked 17th this year. That's the bottom half.

Clearly their 15th-ranked passing offense was what carried them.


What DID carry them? What or who do you think took them to the top?
And do you think that has held for 5 years?

'Playoff games' isn't exactly a meaningless 'cherry-picked' stat and it's pretty ridiculous to suggest it is. Unless you're an agent for Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford.

And how does *regularly* winning and *always* being competitive in playoff games not have anything to do with QB play?
 
2013-03-04 05:27:48 PM

IAmRight: Scrotastic Method: And, that vaunted BAL defense that "carries" the offense? They were ranked 17th this year. That's the bottom half.

Clearly their 15th-ranked passing offense was what carried them.


And that's our point: who cares if he's throwing for 5,000 yards. The Panthers threw for more yards in 2012 than Baltimore: we don't care.  BAL wins more football games than anyone else and he's never missed a game. Teams that threw for more yards than BAL in 2012 and did not make the playoffs: PIT, PHI, NYG, TB, OAK, DAL, DET, NO. So, yes: latch on to "team passing" as your arbiter of QB worth.

Is he a top fantasy QB? Nope. Is he a top-10 QB in the eyes of NFL GMs? Absolutely. Is it worth top money to lock a guy like this down and keep your team from floundering without a starting QB? Absolutely.

And the value doesn't matter. Matt Ryan's going to sign for more next year. Rodgers too. And so will Luck, RGIII, maybe even Kaep and Wilson when their rookie deals are up. He's only the highest paid guy for now, give it three seasons and $120M is going to be a steal.
 
2013-03-05 08:08:28 AM

Scrotastic Method: IAmRight: Scrotastic Method: And, that vaunted BAL defense that "carries" the offense? They were ranked 17th this year. That's the bottom half.

Clearly their 15th-ranked passing offense was what carried them.

And that's our point: who cares if he's throwing for 5,000 yards. The Panthers threw for more yards in 2012 than Baltimore: we don't care.  BAL wins more football games than anyone else and he's never missed a game. Teams that threw for more yards than BAL in 2012 and did not make the playoffs: PIT, PHI, NYG, TB, OAK, DAL, DET, NO. So, yes: latch on to "team passing" as your arbiter of QB worth.

Is he a top fantasy QB? Nope. Is he a top-10 QB in the eyes of NFL GMs? Absolutely. Is it worth top money to lock a guy like this down and keep your team from floundering without a starting QB? Absolutely.

And the value doesn't matter. Matt Ryan's going to sign for more next year. Rodgers too. And so will Luck, RGIII, maybe even Kaep and Wilson when their rookie deals are up. He's only the highest paid guy for now, give it three seasons and $120M is going to be a steal.


No, 120 mil for Flacco will never be a steal.
 
2013-03-05 10:01:56 AM

Scrotastic Method: And that's our point: who cares if he's throwing for 5,000 yards. The Panthers threw for more yards in 2012 than Baltimore: we don't care.  BAL wins more football games than anyone else and he's never missed a game. Teams that threw for more yards than BAL in 2012 and did not make the playoffs: PIT, PHI, NYG, TB, OAK, DAL, DET, NO. So, yes: latch on to "team passing" as your arbiter of QB worth.


Oh, so the fact that the Ravens were a mediocre passing team by the random meaningless stat (I agree, it's a stupid measurement) means nothing about their performance. BUT we're all supposed to believe that the random meaningless stat of "yardage given up" accurately reflects the Ravens' defense because it fits your ridiculous narrative that Flacco is one of the best QBs in the league.

Deneb81: And how does *regularly* winning and *always* being competitive in playoff games not have anything to do with QB play?


Again, Mark Sanchez.
 
2013-03-05 03:42:59 PM

IAmRight: your ridiculous narrative that Flacco is one of the best QBs in the league.


Combine performance with value above available replacement and of course he gets a top-level contract. He just had one of the greatest post-seasons of all time, he wins big games, and there's no way they could have let him go and remained competitive -- gonna trade up with picks they don't have for Geno Smith or Matt Barkley? Gonna have a worse cap hit this year for Matt Flynn? Please.

It's fun to rag on Flacco. And he's not Johnny U 2: Balmer Boogaloo. But he nonetheless has a very impressive resume, with stats and accomplishments beyond what most HOFers and "Elites" have 5 years into their careers...no team is going to let that guy walk, especially since all the Franchise QBs were in last year's draft.
 
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