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(MIC Gadget)   Beijing's off-the-chart air pollution readings are so bad, living there is being compared to living in an airport smoking lounge. Viktor Navorski unavailable for comment   (micgadget.com) divider line 244
    More: Scary, Beijing, air pollution readings, smoking lounge, airport smoking, air pollution  
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6444 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2013 at 3:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-03 05:40:05 PM  
Why argue about who has the worst pollution? Pollution is undeniably bad for all of us. It doesn't matter where it is, it hurts us all.
 
2013-03-03 05:42:35 PM  

MNguy: johnny_vegas: MNguy: LA used to have the same shiat air quality.  Reading is hard.

MNguy: Beijing isn't any worse than LA or Houston

Indeed.  Comprehension is also hard apparently.

Tell me about your time in China.  I'm listening


Sure!  My only experiences in China have been several trips to Hong Kong, pre and post.

I look forward to your ad hominem attacks based on that.  After you take a breath please address the following:
YOU said LA was as bad as Beijing now.
YOU were presented with lots of data refuting your claim
YOU then moved the goal posts saying LA used to be as bad as Beijing

Now how about you look out your window and tell me the air quality index (or whatever quantifiable metric you want to use) wherever you currently live and then compare LA and Beijing air quality right now.

I'm waiting.
 
2013-03-03 05:42:53 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Airports still have smoking lounges?


Some do. McCarran (Las Vegas), and last time I was in Denver, they had a bar where you could smoke (9 AM black Russians FTW). And some airport I've been to on the east coast within the last few years had one, but I can't remember where it was (maybe Charlotte or Roanoke). In most, the "smoking lounge" is outside.
 
2013-03-03 05:43:03 PM  
China is becoming the ultimate expression of Randism.
 
2013-03-03 05:43:55 PM  

quatchi: Ah Capitalism, untrammeled by EPA standards or pesky workers rights.


I seem to recall that actually Communist East Germany managed to rampage all over their environment despite ostensible concern for worker's rights and an utter absence of capitalism.
 
2013-03-03 05:44:13 PM  

MNguy: ph0rk: MNguy: Beijing isn't any worse than LA or Houston

Do you have data to support that?

Besides living there?  And visiting both cities in the US?


Yes, besides that.  Your personal anecdote is not that persuasive, frankly.
 
2013-03-03 05:45:38 PM  

kmmontandon: tenpoundsofcheese: ajgeek: But cheap goods! CAPITALISM! Where will all those poor repressed stockholders go if we implement "standards!?"

Funny!
You think china is a capitalist country!!


So do a lot of the people that live there.

Wonder why.


it doesnt really matter what they are. our capitalism, well variation thereof, drives their pollution.   But Walmart !!
 
2013-03-03 05:46:07 PM  

johnny_vegas: MNguy: johnny_vegas: MNguy: LA used to have the same shiat air quality.  Reading is hard.

MNguy: Beijing isn't any worse than LA or Houston

Indeed.  Comprehension is also hard apparently.

Tell me about your time in China.  I'm listening

Sure!  My only experiences in China have been several trips to Hong Kong, pre and post.

I look forward to your ad hominem attacks based on that.  After you take a breath please address the following:
YOU said LA was as bad as Beijing now.
YOU were presented with lots of data refuting your claim
YOU then moved the goal posts saying LA used to be as bad as Beijing

Now how about you look out your window and tell me the air quality index (or whatever quantifiable metric you want to use) wherever you currently live and then compare LA and Beijing air quality right now.

I'm waiting.


Hong Kong is not China.  But you keep on keeping on, because you know everything
 
2013-03-03 05:46:28 PM  

MNguy: I just read the daily news and form my opinions


In China?
 
2013-03-03 05:46:36 PM  
Wot's all this then?

4.bp.blogspot.com
2.bp.blogspot.com
www.npr.org

/London, 1952
 
2013-03-03 05:47:23 PM  

ciberido: MNguy: ph0rk: MNguy: Beijing isn't any worse than LA or Houston

Do you have data to support that?

Besides living there?  And visiting both cities in the US?

Yes, besides that.  Your personal anecdote is not that persuasive, frankly.


I don't know what else might be.
 
2013-03-03 05:47:26 PM  

johnny_vegas: knock yourselves out.....

http://www.numbeo.com/pollution/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+S ta tes&country2=China&city1=Los+Angeles%2C+CA&city2=Beijing


So, the troll is full of shiat?

My surprised face... -__-
 
2013-03-03 05:48:08 PM  

MNguy: johnny_vegas: MNguy: johnny_vegas: MNguy: LA used to have the same shiat air quality.  Reading is hard.

MNguy: Beijing isn't any worse than LA or Houston

Indeed.  Comprehension is also hard apparently.

Tell me about your time in China.  I'm listening

Sure!  My only experiences in China have been several trips to Hong Kong, pre and post.

I look forward to your ad hominem attacks based on that.  After you take a breath please address the following:
YOU said LA was as bad as Beijing now.
YOU were presented with lots of data refuting your claim
YOU then moved the goal posts saying LA used to be as bad as Beijing

Now how about you look out your window and tell me the air quality index (or whatever quantifiable metric you want to use) wherever you currently live and then compare LA and Beijing air quality right now.

I'm waiting.

Hong Kong is not China.  But you keep on keeping on, because you know everything


so answer the questions, go ahead...tell us again how you are correct

you are intellectually dishonest
 
2013-03-03 05:54:18 PM  

quatchi: RickN99: Oh, hold the phone -- they didn't.  But, but they could have and, according to the Democrats, that's what they soooooooo wanted to do.  It's almost like the GOP didn't actually want to do that and the Dems are full of crap.

The history of the GOP since Reagan has been of weakening the EPA (look who Bush put in charge there, Watt as Reagan's Sec of the Interior ring any bells?) and decreasing worker's rights in favor of corporate rights. A lot of the pro pollution legislation is actually just the GOP kowtowing to their Big Energy backers.

Just because they haven't outright abolished these things doesn't mean that's not the path they are on.


Chris Mooney's book "The Republic War on Science" details some of the things Republics have been doing to cripple the EPA.  I'm sure there are plenty of other books out there that cover the topic, but this is one of the first one that comes to mind.

And it's a particularly dishonest tactic, much like "Intelligent Design" is dishonest.  In both cases, there's an agenda masquerading as science.
 
2013-03-03 05:55:55 PM  

MNguy: Lunchlady: MNguy: Shadow Blasko: MNguy: Beijing isn't any worse than LA or Houston

So... you're that stupid.

So, USA is #1. Go go go

I bet you don't have a passport

So you follow up a demonstrably wrong assertion with a personal attack. Good luck.

Raise your hand if you've yu have spent more than a day in China.


*raises hand*
 
2013-03-03 05:58:27 PM  

This text is now purple: quatchi: Ah Capitalism, untrammeled by EPA standards or pesky workers rights.

I seem to recall that actually Communist East Germany managed to rampage all over their environment despite ostensible concern for worker's rights and an utter absence of capitalism.


Good point. Ceded.

Still, the idea that China (the world fastest growing economy and the globe's new manufacturing base) is basically analogous to the late 19th century America in that it has little to no worker's rights or environmental laws and that the GOP have worked to steadily erode those hard fought laws in the name of being "more competitive" has legs.
 
2013-03-03 05:58:36 PM  

MNguy: kg2095: SpdrJay: As long as China keeps it's air pollution to itself, I say it's their business.

They don't. Some of their air pollution is dust caused by large scale deforestation. At a certain time each year South Korea is subject to Yellow Dust Storms from blown over from China. It's bad enough to cause fatalities in those with preexisting respiratory problems.

Citation needed


And earlier you just used personal experience as your "proof."  I don't know what the hell your problem is, whether you're a troll, or being paid by China to push propaganda, or just a really belligerent crank, but whatever.  Done with you.
 
2013-03-03 06:00:28 PM  

ciberido: I don't know what the hell your problem is, whether you're a troll, or being paid by China to push propaganda, or just a really belligerent crank, but whatever.


They need to ask him for their money back.
 
2013-03-03 06:00:52 PM  

WordsnCollision: Wot's all this then?


The lesson China should've learned from. China could help things a lot with the simplest of things, like charcoal air scrubbers. Won't take out all the nasty stuff, but will take out a huge amount of it.  And it's not like activated charcoal is hard or expensive to make.
 
2013-03-03 06:03:07 PM  

ciberido: Chris Mooney's book "The Republican War on Science" details some of the things Republics have been doing to cripple the EPA.  I'm sure there are plenty of other books out there that cover the topic, but this is one of the first one that comes to mind.


Sounds like a good read. Thanks for the recommend. Cheers!

And it's a particularly dishonest tactic, much like "Intelligent Design" is dishonest.  In both cases, there's an agenda masquerading as science.

I cannot disagree.

Intellectual dishonesty and willful inculcated ignorance seem to be the GOP's stock in trade these days.

More's the pity.
 
2013-03-03 06:04:47 PM  
MNguy: Lunchlady: MNguy: Shadow Blasko: MNguy: Beijing isn't any worse than LA or Houston

So... you're that stupid.

So, USA is #1. Go go go



What's your point?  That LA and other cities in the US used to have as bad pollution as Chinese cities?  You supposedly lived in Tianjin and I lived in Beijing.  And so I am surprised you're arguing that living in Beijing is no different than a US city in terms of pollution.

I don't know of any expats or students who currently live in, or used to live in China that think that the air pollution is remotely comparable to back home.

And what does this have to with making China into an evil bogeyman and rah rah-ing the US? The fact is the air environmental controls are in place in the US and aren't in China.  China is simply a far more dirty environment to live in.
 
2013-03-03 06:06:29 PM  

MNguy: Lunchlady: M

Well like I said, I spent three weeks so I'm not sure if that qualifies to your standards, but it has nothing to do with me being honest, it's backed up by numbers. http://www.numbeo.com/pollution/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+St a tes&country2=China&city1=Los+Angeles%2C+CA&city2=Beijing

No, that doesn't cut it.  Google pics do not exchange for personal photos.


www.lorensworld.com

That is the worst possible picture I can find of LA on Google images, best I can tell it comes from 2011. Yep, looks pretty crappy, but I'd say visibility is about 5-10 miles.

If you can find me one single picture of LA taken in the last 5 years that's as bad as the pictures of China from last week I'll cede the point and declare you correct.

Literally that is all you have to do and you'll have proved your point.
 
2013-03-03 06:09:50 PM  

Lunchlady: Literally that is all you have to do and you'll have proved your point.


Or look up actual air quality measurements, like the ppm number. And that is something that's not hard to look up. Just need to find a two week period where LA or wherever was over 240 ppm the whole time and got to 300 at some point and you could argue that it's as bad as China.
 
2013-03-03 06:09:56 PM  

RickN99: quatchi: Ah Capitalism, untrammeled by EPA standards or pesky workers rights.

That's what the GOP wants to do to America.

That's why, when the GOP had both Houses of Congress and the Presidency, they did away with all those things.

Oh, hold the phone -- they didn't.  But, but they could have and, according to the Democrats, that's what they soooooooo wanted to do.  It's almost like the GOP didn't actually want to do that and the Dems are full of crap.


Like the Clear Skies Initiative, and the Healthy Forests Initiative, and any other number of doublespeaky things they pushed for?
 
2013-03-03 06:16:24 PM  
Key to living in Beijing: get the highest apartment possible.

livedoor.4.blogimg.jp
livedoor.4.blogimg.jp
livedoor.4.blogimg.jp
 
2013-03-03 06:16:54 PM  

MNguy: kmmontandon: MNguy: ph0rk: MNguy: I lived in Tianjin for half a year, many people wore face masks, but it's not any worse than the US in the shiattiar cities

Cough up numbers.

Does living there not convince?


Anecdotes are not the same as data.

Better than conjecture.


And air quality measurements are better than both.

Maybe you should try those.
 
2013-03-03 06:17:05 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Lunchlady: Literally that is all you have to do and you'll have proved your point.

Or look up actual air quality measurements, like the ppm number. And that is something that's not hard to look up. Just need to find a two week period where LA or wherever was over 240 ppm the whole time and got to 300 at some point and you could argue that it's as bad as China.


We tried that, he ignored that link. Photos seem to get the best results.
 
2013-03-03 06:26:54 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Lunchlady: Literally that is all you have to do and you'll have proved your point.

Or look up actual air quality measurements, like the ppm number. And that is something that's not hard to look up. Just need to find a two week period where LA or wherever was over 240 ppm the whole time and got to 300 at some point and you could argue that it's as bad as China.


Shanghai has an interesting English-language online AQI monitoring page with a real-time webcam and a cute way to display the air pollution level:

hsu.me

Seems to be decent today so far with a current PPM of "only" 118. Mind you, Shanghai is not Beijing.
 
2013-03-03 06:28:32 PM  

WordsnCollision: Key to living in Beijing: get the highest apartment possible.

[livedoor.4.blogimg.jp image 700x471]
[livedoor.4.blogimg.jp image 700x463]
[livedoor.4.blogimg.jp image 700x446]


That's pretty badass.
 
2013-03-03 06:29:59 PM  

ajgeek: tenpoundsofcheese: ajgeek: But cheap goods! CAPITALISM! Where will all those poor repressed stockholders go if we implement "standards!?"

Funny!
You think china is a capitalist country!!

Classic.
When you take 9th grade world history you may learn something about china.

Are you a moron? Because my idiot detector isn't going off. I'm talking about U.S. stockholders.


Is there any other kind of stockholders???

/rich old and white are the only important modifiers in the English language
 
2013-03-03 06:31:22 PM  
Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-03-03 06:31:47 PM  

born_yesterday: WordsnCollision: Key to living in Beijing: get the highest apartment possible.

[livedoor.4.blogimg.jp image 700x471]
[livedoor.4.blogimg.jp image 700x463]
[livedoor.4.blogimg.jp image 700x446]

That's pretty badass.


More here.
 
2013-03-03 06:37:19 PM  

WordsnCollision: Seems to be decent today so far with a current PPM of "only" 118. Mind you, Shanghai is not Beijing.


yeah, Shanghai never seems to get it as bad as Beijing, which gets it super bad.
 
2013-03-03 06:49:33 PM  

WordsnCollision: WhyteRaven74: Lunchlady: Literally that is all you have to do and you'll have proved your point.

Or look up actual air quality measurements, like the ppm number. And that is something that's not hard to look up. Just need to find a two week period where LA or wherever was over 240 ppm the whole time and got to 300 at some point and you could argue that it's as bad as China.

Shanghai has an interesting English-language online AQI monitoring page with a real-time webcam and a cute way to display the air pollution level:

[hsu.me image 810x138]

Seems to be decent today so far with a current PPM of "only" 118. Mind you, Shanghai is not Beijing.


It needs a 500+ with the face starting to melt.
 
2013-03-03 06:53:03 PM  
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110224010449/fallout/images/c / c0/The_Cloud.jpg


"The Cloud is what blankets the sky here... you may smell it in the air, copper and sulfur... burns the lungs and seeps into the skin".

/obscure?
 
2013-03-03 07:28:24 PM  

WordsnCollision: Key to living in Beijing: get the highest apartment possible.


That looks like fog.
 
2013-03-03 07:38:37 PM  

ActionJoe: Mayhem of the Black Underclass: My view in Shanghai
[i.imgur.com image 850x637]


Looked like this at ground level. That is to say visibility started to get hazy at 30 ft. I was trying to get the fogginess in the picture from the front of the bus, but it started to drive out so I had to get out of the way.
[i.imgur.com image 850x637]

Whoa whoa whoa. Are these even your photos? Is this even China? How long have you been there? Have you been to LA? You aren't qualified to speak on this topic if you don't meet MN's standards. Just putting those questions out there before he asks.


These are my photos, yes. This is, in fact, China. I was there in August. I've been to LA, my in-laws live in Burbank. I don't know what the standards are, get pissy and shiat all over a thread because I'm a huge troll? I'll see if I have some photos from Beijing when I get to work tomorrow. It seems absurd to me, now, that they aren't available online at this very moment.
 
2013-03-03 08:02:27 PM  

Jument: Why argue about who has the worst pollution? Pollution is undeniably bad for all of us. It doesn't matter where it is, it hurts us all.


because this isn't about pollution per se. This is about American superiority and general disdain on fark for everything Chinese. Pollution being a bad thing that everyone agrees on...presents the perfect ammunition for anti Chinese sychopants on Fark to cleverly disguise their racially motivated agendas while at the same time able to push the mentality of American supremacy as being superior humans over the yellow skined small dick Asians w/o being too obvious.
 
2013-03-03 08:07:01 PM  
Remember back in the 70's with all the chemical and steel plants operating in Western NY. The snow would be either gray or green or red.
 
2013-03-03 08:23:41 PM  
Sounds like China needs an EPA, workers' unions, and a fair minimum wage.

Funny that a lot of people think the United States needs less of those exact things.
 
2013-03-03 08:24:58 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Combine Beijing with Somalia, and you have a Libertarian's wet dream. Who needs government? Well, besides all of those people who are dying from cancer and getting murdered by warlords.  Google "Cancer Villages" and "China" and come back and tell use we don't need the EPA. We learned during our own industrial revolution that companies do not regulate themselves.


You shut your non-understanding whore mouth with that "Libertarians" crap. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  Libertarians come in many flavors of limited government intervention, just like other political parties have members across their whole spectrum. They want as little government as possible and still function. Everything from a bit less law than we have now all the way to a state of anarchy can be attributed to someone who simply wants less government.  Even if a *very* select tiny miniscule amount of L's would want this amount of lax regulation, they would change their tune in a hurry I think when it got this bad.

Please refrain from further comments until you've completed a few thousand more cycles on this planet.
 
2013-03-03 08:40:09 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: Jument: Why argue about who has the worst pollution? Pollution is undeniably bad for all of us. It doesn't matter where it is, it hurts us all.

because this isn't about pollution per se. This is about American superiority and general disdain on fark for everything Chinese. Pollution being a bad thing that everyone agrees on...presents the perfect ammunition for anti Chinese sychopants on Fark to cleverly disguise their racially motivated agendas while at the same time able to push the mentality of American supremacy as being superior humans over the yellow skined small dick Asians w/o being too obvious.


I see. Carry on then!
 
2013-03-03 08:51:14 PM  

kriegfusion: shower_in_my_socks: Combine Beijing with Somalia, and you have a Libertarian's wet dream. Who needs government? Well, besides all of those people who are dying from cancer and getting murdered by warlords.  Google "Cancer Villages" and "China" and come back and tell use we don't need the EPA. We learned during our own industrial revolution that companies do not regulate themselves.

You shut your non-understanding whore mouth with that "Libertarians" crap. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  Libertarians come in many flavors of limited government intervention, just like other political parties have members across their whole spectrum. They want as little government as possible and still function. Everything from a bit less law than we have now all the way to a state of anarchy can be attributed to someone who simply wants less government.  Even if a *very* select tiny miniscule amount of L's would want this amount of lax regulation, they would change their tune in a hurry I think when it got this bad.

Please refrain from further comments until you've completed a few thousand more cycles on this planet.


LOLWUT? The capital 'L' in Libertarian denotes the Libertarian party in his statement, and they're a bunch of nutters as much as the Green Party is.
 
2013-03-03 09:09:36 PM  

ciberido: MNguy: kg2095: SpdrJay: As long as China keeps it's air pollution to itself, I say it's their business.

They don't. Some of their air pollution is dust caused by large scale deforestation. At a certain time each year South Korea is subject to Yellow Dust Storms from blown over from China. It's bad enough to cause fatalities in those with preexisting respiratory problems.

Citation needed

And earlier you just used personal experience as your "proof."  I don't know what the hell your problem is, whether you're a troll, or being paid by China to push propaganda, or just a really belligerent crank, but whatever.   Done with you.


That's fine with me. The last thing I want is aggressive, angry people responding to my posts.
 
2013-03-03 09:11:53 PM  
Bunch of nutters huh. Really? I consider myself closer to being Libertarian than any of those other yahoo parties (and even I acknowledge the many different types of people in those parties of course) and I am probably closer to the big government side of things on certain situations. I think universal healthcare and education should be seriously looked at. I grew up a total diehard Rush Limbaugh supporter (as much as a youth can support something they dont fully understand) and believed his whole bullshiat about government doing no good and business has the answer to everything.  I now see , such as this example in china, unfettered government negligence on an issue  can directly lead to the deaths of people.

I firmly believe the old maxim of "that government is best which governs least", but I do think however distasteful government is, we need some. I  no longer blindly follow corporations and their propaganda, same with government BS we hear day in and day out.

The L party is made up of many, many people from all walks of life, and they disagree constantly on what levels of intervention are best. It's a great thing, this discourse.  If thats your idea of nutter, then call me Nutella, and spread me all over your delicious body.
 
2013-03-03 09:30:37 PM  
Dude, the Libertarian party specifically has a stance saying that the free market will control the usage of natural resources so that they won't be misused.  China is a pretty good example of unfettered usage of natural resources, and they're polluting themselves.

They also claim education and health care is best addressed through the free market also.  Something that has repeatedly been shown to increase the stratification of the population where it is used.  The U.S. is a decent example, despite the mild regulation, of how free market style health care f*cks people without the money to pay for it.

I don't know who the hell you are, but you don't know what the party you claim to be part of, or similar in beliefs to, actual purports to accomplish.
 
2013-03-03 09:45:33 PM  

Thats No Moose: ciberido: I don't know what the hell your problem is, whether you're a troll, or being paid by China to push propaganda, or just a really belligerent crank, but whatever.

They need to ask him for their money back.


It. They need to ask it for their money back.
 
2013-03-03 09:51:04 PM  

Lunchlady: WhyteRaven74: Lunchlady: Literally that is all you have to do and you'll have proved your point.

Or look up actual air quality measurements, like the ppm number. And that is something that's not hard to look up. Just need to find a two week period where LA or wherever was over 240 ppm the whole time and got to 300 at some point and you could argue that it's as bad as China.

We tried that, he ignored that link. Photos seem to get the best results.


Being an obstinate ignoramus just comes so easily to some. Apparently living somewhere for 6 months makes you an infallible expert on every single f*cking thing about that place. No need for citations, data, or...you know...facts.
 
2013-03-03 09:51:45 PM  

kriegfusion: Bunch of nutters huh. Really? I consider myself closer to being Libertarian than any of those other yahoo parties (and even I acknowledge the many different types of people in those parties of course) and I am probably closer to the big government side of things on certain situations. I think universal healthcare and education should be seriously looked at. I grew up a total diehard Rush Limbaugh supporter (as much as a youth can support something they dont fully understand) and believed his whole bullshiat about government doing no good and business has the answer to everything.  I now see , such as this example in china, unfettered government negligence on an issue  can directly lead to the deaths of people.

I firmly believe the old maxim of "that government is best which governs least", but I do think however distasteful government is, we need some. I  no longer blindly follow corporations and their propaganda, same with government BS we hear day in and day out.

The L party is made up of many, many people from all walks of life, and they disagree constantly on what levels of intervention are best. It's a great thing, this discourse.  If thats your idea of nutter, then call me Nutella, and spread me all over your delicious body.


Go on...
 
2013-03-03 09:58:26 PM  

kriegfusion: Bunch of nutters huh. Really? I consider myself closer to being Libertarian than any of those other yahoo parties (and even I acknowledge the many different types of people in those parties of course) and I am probably closer to the big government side of things on certain situations. I think universal healthcare and education should be seriously looked at. I grew up a total diehard Rush Limbaugh supporter (as much as a youth can support something they dont fully understand) and believed his whole bullshiat about government doing no good and business has the answer to everything.  I now see , such as this example in china, unfettered government negligence on an issue  can directly lead to the deaths of people.

I firmly believe the old maxim of "that government is best which governs least", but I do think however distasteful government is, we need some. I  no longer blindly follow corporations and their propaganda, same with government BS we hear day in and day out.

The L party is made up of many, many people from all walks of life, and they disagree constantly on what levels of intervention are best. It's a great thing, this discourse.  If thats your idea of nutter, then call me Nutella, and spread me all over your delicious body.


So...Your a Libertarian but disagree with 99% of the platform...

make sense you where a Rush supporter
 
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