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(Mashable)   What people think wealth distribution should be, what they think it is, and what it actually is   (mashable.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, food distribution, wealths  
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8297 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Mar 2013 at 10:59 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-03 07:54:48 AM  
If we cane wrest away the last few dollars of the thin blue stripe on the left, America can be great once again.
 
2013-03-03 08:18:06 AM  
It's pretty difficult to accumulate much wealth before you're in your mid 30s as it takes a while to climb the income ladder and get past the costs of raising kids. I wasn't able to actually start saving and accruing value in my house until I was 40.

I would be more interested in this data if it didn't include 18-30 year olds, but I guess that wouldn't give us as much to be angry about.
 
2013-03-03 08:46:41 AM  
I suggest more tax breaks for the wealthy.
 
2013-03-03 08:46:58 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: It's pretty difficult to accumulate much wealth before you're in your mid 30s as it takes a while to climb the income ladder and get past the costs of raising kids. I wasn't able to actually start saving and accruing value in my house until I was 40.

I would be more interested in this data if it didn't include 18-30 year olds, but I guess that wouldn't give us as much to be angry about.


You are partially right, but are focusing on changes to the very bottom of the curve.  No one is moving in and out of that top 10% (or that intriguing 1% that owns so much) based on kids.
 
2013-03-03 08:53:27 AM  
At the beginning of civilization the Pharaohs owned virtually everything and everybody else had squat, why shouldn't the end of civilization be the same way?
 
2013-03-03 08:53:30 AM  
I think wealth distribution should be all the money to me. I think it is only some money to me and it is actually only some money to me.

farkers. Burn the world!!!!!
 
2013-03-03 08:58:33 AM  
Not really new information, not to me, but it's a very well done presentation.
 
2013-03-03 09:09:23 AM  
don't worry - historically speaking, every society with massive imbalances in wealth and political/economic power eventually comes to a point where that imbalance corrects itself.  the traditional methods involved do tend to be rather bad for property values however, not to mention more than a bit messy and bad for the carpets.  But take heart!  eventually things DO get better.
 
2013-03-03 09:15:23 AM  
When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

I'm not 100% who said it, but Ben Franklin is largely credited. Regardless, the people at the top figured it out first and started buying more wealth. I personally think we need to start over entirely, or bring back the inheritance tax and close the loopholes where people can get their wealth to their children tax-free.
 
2013-03-03 09:22:39 AM  

ajgeek: When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

I'm not 100% who said it, but Ben Franklin is largely credited. Regardless, the people at the top figured it out first and started buying more wealth. I personally think we need to start over entirely, or bring back the inheritance tax and close the loopholes where people can get their wealth to their children tax-free.


oh there are several ways we could go about fixing this problem.  a lot of very smart people have lots of great ideas on how to get out of this mess.  you can find ideas galore.  plans well written, plans not so well written, and enthusiasm abounds to fix this imbalance.

none of it matters.

it doesn't matter because we gave the richest 1% virtually unlimited ability to influence government.  they don't even have to win elections to keep the status quo...they just have to achieve enough influence to maintain things as they are and keep everything tied up in Congress and the courts.  that's it.  then they win and we lose.
 
2013-03-03 09:23:24 AM  

ajgeek: When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

I'm not 100% who said it, but Ben Franklin is largely credited. Regardless, the people at the top figured it out first and started buying more wealth. I personally think we need to start over entirely, or bring back the inheritance tax and close the loopholes where people can get their wealth to their children tax-free.


I think thats a roman thing actually....

The inheritance tax (and the loopholes you mentioned) are the basic protection we have against aristocratic nobility.  There is nothing wrong with working hard and passing on your wealth to your kids, so they can continue your legacy.  There is something wrong when the entire nations wealth is routinely passed along this way through the same families.
 
2013-03-03 09:25:32 AM  
Be patient, people.  All that wealth will trickle down aaaaany minute now.  I know we've been waiting for decades, but trust me, that 1% is going to create a shiatload of jobs aaaaany minute now.

IamKaiserSoze!!!: I would be more interested in this data if it didn't include 18-30 year olds, but I guess that wouldn't give us as much to be angry about.


The right side of that graph would not noticeably change if you eliminated young people.  The point remains that in recent decades wealth has been trickling UP at a ridiculous pace.  Eliminating young people from the graph would not change the fact that CEOs make 380X as much as their average worker.  That kind of disparity exists only in America (among "developed" nations - some third-world despots might accrue a comparable share of the national wealth).

I am constantly amazed that I (childless and determined to keep it that way) am more worried about how ill this bodes for America's future than a lot of people who do have children and look forward to grandchildren and can assume the existence of future progeny.  This trend is very bad for your future families.

Yes, I just pulled a "won't somebody please think of the children!?"  Sometimes it's apt.
 
2013-03-03 09:28:48 AM  
Lionel Mandrake:
I am constantly amazed that I (childless and determined to keep it that way) am more worried about how ill this bodes for America's future than a lot of people who do have children and look forward to grandchildren and can assume the existence of future progeny.  This trend is very bad for your future families.

none of my Republican friends will even look at this data.  I've seriously considered strapping them to a chair and going all 'clockwork orange' on 'em with this video.  the numbers, the math, DOES NOT LIE.  this is reality, this is how it is in this country right now.  But I can't get my Republican friends to accept it, nor do I know how to reach them.

its very frustrating.
 
2013-03-03 09:34:30 AM  
When a rich man dies, his money and valuables should go to his account. Any man, woman, or child who thinks they deserve are allowed to lay a claim. All claimants get a sword and a shield of standard size. They are then sent to an arena. ONE claimant gets the loot, less income tax.
 
2013-03-03 09:37:34 AM  

doglover: When a rich man dies, his money and valuables should go to his account. Any man, woman, or child who thinks they deserve are allowed to lay a claim. All claimants get a sword and a shield of standard size. They are then sent to an arena. ONE claimant gets the loot, less income tax.


Oh yeah, you can't sue or prosecute anyone for death or injury they caused in the arena and cheaters are shot dead on the spot if convicted of cheating by a tribunal which would be on hand already to do the paperwork for the transfer of wealth.

So when they "None of this. None of that." you'd best pay damn good attention to the rules.
 
2013-03-03 09:38:56 AM  
Hmmm..... who make the laws in our country?  Bet you it isn't the people in the bottom 80%.  So if the bleeding hearts that desire to confiscate their wealth to "spread it around" want to do something about it, they can give it away.  If that isn't enough, then they can pass laws forcing the government to take it and give it to those more in need.

During my entire lifetime, these points have been made and not a single politician has done anything about it.

There will always be poor.  There will always be the uber rich that inherit or work their way to it.

There will always be liberals complaining about it.
 
2013-03-03 09:43:11 AM  
The inheritance tax should allow someone to pass on twenty percent of the value of a farm or company. That's the standard requirement to get a loan. The desendent could then use that to aquire a loan to pay off the tax and continue to run the family business or take the money and run while turning the assets over to the govt.

Also:

Flat tax for incomes over (you pick it) 30-40-50K. I would pick a point where at least 60-70% of households are paying federal income tax.

Close all loopholes and subsidies on all individual and corporate taxes

Means test all MCare/SS eligibility

Pass a balanced budget amendment

Eliminate govt employee defined benefit plans (or subject federal/state pension funds to the same IRS type requirements as businesses) just like the private sector has.

Require the costs associated with new regulations to be a credit against tax liabilities. OK, so maybe one loophole.
 
2013-03-03 09:43:27 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: It's pretty difficult to accumulate much wealth before you're in your mid 30s as it takes a while to climb the income ladder and get past the costs of raising kids. I wasn't able to actually start saving and accruing value in my house until I was 40.

I would be more interested in this data if it didn't include 18-30 year olds, but I guess that wouldn't give us as much to be angry about.


That's certainly true if you start, as most of us do, from home plate or first base. Some are born outside the stadium too and they really have it hard. Some are born up in the owner's box.

Wait, what was I saying? Oh yeah. Good point. It would be interesting to see the graph with at least the under 18's excluded. Also, would like to see the graph intelligently debated by some statisticians, economists, and others so we can understand the context and any fluffier items (as opposed to facts).

Excellent, excellent presentation too. (Grinds teeth a bit thinking of wastes of oxygen like Paris Hilton. Has personally found the stadium and is now perched somewhat precariously on 2nd base. May make it to 3rd someday.)
 
2013-03-03 09:47:37 AM  

LadySusan: IamKaiserSoze!!!: It's pretty difficult to accumulate much wealth before you're in your mid 30s as it takes a while to climb the income ladder and get past the costs of raising kids. I wasn't able to actually start saving and accruing value in my house until I was 40.

I would be more interested in this data if it didn't include 18-30 year olds, but I guess that wouldn't give us as much to be angry about.

That's certainly true if you start, as most of us do, from home plate or first base. Some are born outside the stadium too and they really have it hard. Some are born up in the owner's box.

Wait, what was I saying? Oh yeah. Good point. It would be interesting to see the graph with at least the under 18's excluded. Also, would like to see the graph intelligently debated by some statisticians, economists, and others so we can understand the context and any fluffier items (as opposed to facts).

Excellent, excellent presentation too. (Grinds teeth a bit thinking of wastes of oxygen like Paris Hilton. Has personally found the stadium and is now perched somewhat precariously on 2nd base. May make it to 3rd someday.)


Strange you would bring up Paris Hilton. I tend to think of anyone with last name of Kennedy.
 
2013-03-03 09:51:55 AM  
But...but...but...but....Clinton

Wealth inequality rose the most under Clinton

sure you can have the same wealth equality as Somala, but then you will also have the same wealth level as Somalia
 
2013-03-03 09:54:09 AM  

PhiloeBedoe: At the beginning of civilization the Pharaohs owned virtually everything and everybody else had squat


what you are saying is that the situation has improved.
 
2013-03-03 09:54:13 AM  

Weaver95: don't worry - historically speaking, every society with massive imbalances in wealth and political/economic power eventually comes to a point where that imbalance corrects itself.  the traditional methods involved do tend to be rather bad for property values however, not to mention more than a bit messy and bad for the carpets.  But take heart!  eventually things DO get better.


IWW? Mine Workers? Scabs? Mother Jones? Teamsters?
 
2013-03-03 09:55:57 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: The inheritance tax should allow someone to pass on twenty percent of the value of a farm or company. That's the standard requirement to get a loan. The desendent could then use that to aquire a loan to pay off the tax and continue to run the family business or take the money and run while turning the assets over to the govt.

Also:

Flat tax for incomes over (you pick it) 30-40-50K. I would pick a point where at least 60-70% of households are paying federal income tax.

Close all loopholes and subsidies on all individual and corporate taxes

Means test all MCare/SS eligibility

Pass a balanced budget amendment

Eliminate govt employee defined benefit plans (or subject federal/state pension funds to the same IRS type requirements as businesses) just like the private sector has.

Require the costs associated with new regulations to be a credit against tax liabilities. OK, so maybe one loophole.


how does any of that make the poor richer?
you are only talking about taking.
 
2013-03-03 09:58:10 AM  
I'm sure there will be more depressing things seen today, but damn, that's sad.
 
2013-03-03 10:00:59 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The inheritance tax should allow someone to pass on twenty percent of the value of a farm or company. That's the standard requirement to get a loan. The desendent could then use that to aquire a loan to pay off the tax and continue to run the family business or take the money and run while turning the assets over to the govt.

Also:

Flat tax for incomes over (you pick it) 30-40-50K. I would pick a point where at least 60-70% of households are paying federal income tax.

Close all loopholes and subsidies on all individual and corporate taxes

Means test all MCare/SS eligibility

Pass a balanced budget amendment

Eliminate govt employee defined benefit plans (or subject federal/state pension funds to the same IRS type requirements as businesses) just like the private sector has.

Require the costs associated with new regulations to be a credit against tax liabilities. OK, so maybe one loophole.

how does any of that make the poor richer?
you are only talking about taking.


It helps us afford the spending commitments we've made. It also broadens the base and makes a system that's more equitable and less complicated.

Also, I'm not sure what makes you conclude that what I suggested takes more with the exception of the inheritance tax. I can live with reducing American nobility. That would help keep them out of government.
 
2013-03-03 10:01:21 AM  
I'd like to compare that graph to modern day russia and modern day china and see how much more skewed they are than us.  trying to be more like them isn't a the solution.
 
2013-03-03 10:04:20 AM  

SlothB77: I'd like to compare that graph to modern day russia and modern day china and see how much more skewed they are than us.  trying to be more like them isn't a the solution.


Or the tech industry. That sector has boomed over the last twenty years and provides ridiculous windfalls to the owners. I'm guessing that has significantly skewed the balance.
 
2013-03-03 10:06:35 AM  

EnviroDude: Hmmm..... who make the laws in our country?  Bet you it isn't the people in the bottom 80%.  So if the bleeding hearts that desire to confiscate their wealth to "spread it around" want to do something about it, they can give it away.  If that isn't enough, then they can pass laws forcing the government to take it and give it to those more in need.

During my entire lifetime, these points have been made and not a single politician has done anything about it.

There will always be poor.  There will always be the uber rich that inherit or work their way to it.

There will always be liberals complaining about it.


You make no sense. You agree with liberals and complain like a liberal, then you bash liberals for complaining. All in a single comment. No wonder nobody takes you seriously enough to even consider you a troll.
 
2013-03-03 10:14:01 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: tenpoundsofcheese: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The inheritance tax should allow someone to pass on twenty percent of the value of a farm or company. That's the standard requirement to get a loan. The desendent could then use that to aquire a loan to pay off the tax and continue to run the family business or take the money and run while turning the assets over to the govt.

Also:

Flat tax for incomes over (you pick it) 30-40-50K. I would pick a point where at least 60-70% of households are paying federal income tax.

Close all loopholes and subsidies on all individual and corporate taxes

Means test all MCare/SS eligibility

Pass a balanced budget amendment

Eliminate govt employee defined benefit plans (or subject federal/state pension funds to the same IRS type requirements as businesses) just like the private sector has.

Require the costs associated with new regulations to be a credit against tax liabilities. OK, so maybe one loophole.

how does any of that make the poor richer?
you are only talking about taking.

It helps us afford the spending commitments we've made. It also broadens the base and makes a system that's more equitable and less complicated.



so it doesn't actually help the poor, except to make them feel better that other people are keeping less of their money.  Okay.  Well, at least you are worried about their feelings.


Also, I'm not sure what makes you conclude that what I suggested takes more with the exception of the inheritance tax. I can live with reducing American nobility. That would help keep them out of government.

"Closing loopholes" - what does that mean?  We have a tax code that people follow.  If you want to change it so people get taxed more, then you are taking more.

When you means test, won't you take away benefits from some people if they earn too much?
 
2013-03-03 10:14:03 AM  

SlothB77: I'd like to compare that graph to modern day russia and modern day china and see how much more skewed they are than us.  trying to be more like them isn't a the solution.


http://infocus.credit-suisse.com/data/_product_documents/_shop/36832 7/ 2012_global_wealth_report.pdf

Interesting read, although not a lot of granular info. According to them, China isn't bad, but Russia is a mess- 100 Billionaires own 30% of all the wealth. So we are headed that way.
 
2013-03-03 10:19:41 AM  
wow. that video must really have scared the crap outta people.  our usual shills came out in force to change the subject!
 
2013-03-03 10:27:35 AM  

Weaver95: our usual shills came out in force to change the subject!


Feathers have been ruffled. Very well made video.
 
2013-03-03 10:53:09 AM  
Well, that sucks.  So, what's a pleb like me to do?  Really, what can any of us do?
 
2013-03-03 11:00:13 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: It's pretty difficult to accumulate much wealth before you're in your mid 30s as it takes a while to climb the income ladder and get past the costs of raising kids. I wasn't able to actually start saving and accruing value in my house until I was 40.

I would be more interested in this data if it didn't include 18-30 year olds, but I guess that wouldn't give us as much to be angry about.


That's your excuse?  That's why the top 20% own more than half the wealth?  Because people have kids?  That is so incredibly farking stupid I'm actually offended.
 
2013-03-03 11:01:41 AM  

Weaver95: Lionel Mandrake:
I am constantly amazed that I (childless and determined to keep it that way) am more worried about how ill this bodes for America's future than a lot of people who do have children and look forward to grandchildren and can assume the existence of future progeny.  This trend is very bad for your future families.

none of my Republican friends will even look at this data.  I've seriously considered strapping them to a chair and going all 'clockwork orange' on 'em with this video.  the numbers, the math, DOES NOT LIE.  this is reality, this is how it is in this country right now.  But I can't get my Republican friends to accept it, nor do I know how to reach them.

its very frustrating.


I'd really like to send this off to my family members, but I know they won't watch it. They seem to be becoming more and more suspicious of my political leanings now, mostly because I don't join them in shoveling around prepackaged anti-Obama propaganda.
 
2013-03-03 11:02:49 AM  

Weaver95: don't worry - historically speaking, every society with massive imbalances in wealth and political/economic power eventually comes to a point where that imbalance corrects itself.  the traditional methods involved do tend to be rather bad for property values however, not to mention more than a bit messy and bad for the carpets.  But take heart!  eventually things DO get better.



Historically speaking? [Citations, please]

It seems to me that over most of the history of civilization, most societies have consisted of small, elite ruling classes and large peasant populations.

The concept of "middle class" seems rather anomalous.
 
2013-03-03 11:07:59 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Flat tax for incomes over (you pick it) 30-40-50K. I would pick a point where at least 60-70% of households are paying federal income tax.

Close all loopholes and subsidies on all individual and corporate taxes

Means test all MCare/SS eligibility

Pass a balanced budget amendment

Eliminate govt employee defined benefit plans (or subject federal/state pension funds to the same IRS type requirements as businesses) just like the private sector has.

Require the costs associated with new regulations to be a credit against tax liabilities. OK, so maybe one loophole.


How does any of that crap address the issue at hand?

It reads like a GOP bumper sticker collection.
 
2013-03-03 11:09:04 AM  
What's messed up is that the people crying about how rich people don't deserve their money also worship Hollywood celebs who make $20+ million per movie.
 
2013-03-03 11:11:48 AM  

EnviroDude: So if the bleeding hearts that desire to confiscate their wealth


And you just admitted you have no clue what this is about nor did you watch the video or listen to the 92% of Americans of ALL parties who agree on the subject. So please, do us a favor and go leap off a bridge or something. Or maybe self-deport yourself to Australia.
 
2013-03-03 11:14:42 AM  

Mrtraveler01: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Flat tax for incomes over (you pick it) 30-40-50K. I would pick a point where at least 60-70% of households are paying federal income tax.

Close all loopholes and subsidies on all individual and corporate taxes

Means test all MCare/SS eligibility

Pass a balanced budget amendment

Eliminate govt employee defined benefit plans (or subject federal/state pension funds to the same IRS type requirements as businesses) just like the private sector has.

Require the costs associated with new regulations to be a credit against tax liabilities. OK, so maybe one loophole.

How does any of that crap address the issue at hand?

It reads like a GOP bumper sticker collection.


Actually it's nearly a copy and paste from the Obama plan to prevent the sequester.
 
2013-03-03 11:16:06 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Democrat policies have resulted in the largest income inequality.


Good to know that Bush Jr and the GOP Congress during the majority of his term were Democrats
 
2013-03-03 11:17:37 AM  
Everybody should get everything all the time.

There.  Done.
 
2013-03-03 11:19:50 AM  

cabbyman: Everybody should get everything all the time.

There.  Done.


Derpa derp. Hurr durr
 
2013-03-03 11:20:35 AM  

i1121.photobucket.com

A funny thing happened while you were watching the Puppet Show, America.

 
2013-03-03 11:20:41 AM  
"I do not care about inequality because I'm not envious. I care about poverty."

I think that this is an important distinction to make. The problem isn't that people at the top of the socioeconomic ladder have more than those at the bottom, it's that many of those at the bottom are unable to support themselves.
 
2013-03-03 11:20:58 AM  
While impossible to implement, I believe a good start would be:

1. Eliminate corporate taxes.
2. Give all taxpayers a $35-45K deduction
3. Fully tax all income from whatever source - I would include inheritance in this category.
 
2013-03-03 11:22:06 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: What's messed up is that the people crying about how rich people don't deserve their money also worship Hollywood celebs who make $20+ million per movie.


Worship who?
 
2013-03-03 11:25:23 AM  
Thanks, Republicans!

/Republicans want to make income inequality worse
//Democrats want to keep it the same
///And if you want to start evening things out a bit you're a pinko lefty extremist.
 
2013-03-03 11:26:58 AM  
Wealth accumulates because people who have wealth know how to get wealth. When you try and flood the lower end of the quintiles with money all you're going to do is trickle that money right on up the chain to the rich.

Put it in real terms, let's say you cut a check to every person in America who is below the poverty line for $4,000. Great, now they can pay off some bills, maybe fix up their homes, buy better food, and maybe a new TV or gaming system. Where does that money go? To other poor people? As if. It's going right up the line to the rich folks.

You can't stop this. Though if you have a free market that doesn't encourage "too big to fail" the size of wealth will tend to be restricted by competition. But America is full tilt going towards an oligarchy so you can keep expecting the unchecked growth of the wealth of those connected to the powerful.
 
2013-03-03 11:27:56 AM  
raerae1980
Well, that sucks. So, what's a pleb like me to do? Really, what can any of us do?

www.iww.org

/with the link this time
 
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