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(Bloomberg)   After-tax pay drops to lowest level since 1959. That change you voted for? Better check the couch cushions   (bloomberg.com) divider line 185
    More: Fail, U.S., discretionary income, personal incomes, consumer spending, stock-index futures, berg survey, Conference Board, durable goods  
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2261 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Mar 2013 at 10:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-02 11:02:31 PM  

shotglasss: Emposter: Yeah, this is totally Obummer's fault, not at all the fault of the party that is constantly not only refusing to implement a rational progressive tax policy but also trying to shift even greater burdens onto the non-rich while cutting taxes for the rich, trying to repeal the minimum wage and block increases, and working to get rid of overtime, among many other wonderful proposals that totally aren't a class war against the middle class when THEY do them.

We are taxed enough. The problem is that gubberment is spending nearly double what they're taking in. What other entity can do that?


Heh, it's cute that you believe that.  Even better that you think spending being bigger than revenue is all a spending problem, not a revenue problem.  A little weird that you're fark account is so old, yet I don't have your favorited like the other right wingtards.
 
2013-03-02 11:04:07 PM  

Emposter: your fark account


Meh....ftfm.
 
2013-03-02 11:05:54 PM  

James F. Campbell: [home.comcast.net image 850x637]

So vote Republican.


b-b-but what about abortions and the War on Christmas and anchor babies and the Muslim Brotherhood and Communists in our universities and the oppression of Christians and the undesirable urban criminal people (you know who I mean) and voter fraud and death panels and ACORN, etc, etc, etc...

We must vote Republican!!  Only they can protect us!  The Democrat Party doesn't even acknowledge these threats to our freedoms!
 
2013-03-02 11:08:46 PM  
Just in case you think sanity is about to prevail, Republicans have decided this is the perfect time to revisit Medicare vouchers.
 
2013-03-02 11:13:25 PM  

Fart_Machine: Well that's it.  If only we had elected Romney wages for the average worker would have gone through the ceiling!


...And we're finished here.
 
2013-03-02 11:14:00 PM  
What nobody on fark seems to realize is that the 3 things that are removing millions of people from middle class are healthcare, college and housing. All three of which the federal govt has messed with extensively over the past 30 years or so. All other aspects of middle class life have either stayed the same or gone down. Wages have gone down because the labor pool doubled in 20 years or so. We are seeing the end of the idea of scarcity of labor which gave bargaining to people for their labor. Labor is now a commodity and govt is continuing to mess with the 3 areas that are dragging people into being poor.
 
2013-03-02 11:14:49 PM  
I'd just like to point out a bunch of things that I pay for that come out pre-tax, like my health insurance, monthly subway pass, my retirement, medical FSA and childcare.
 
2013-03-02 11:18:49 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: James F. Campbell: [home.comcast.net image 850x637]

So vote Republican.

b-b-but what about abortions and the War on Christmas and anchor babies and the Muslim Brotherhood and Communists in our universities and the oppression of Christians and the undesirable urban criminal people (you know who I mean) and voter fraud and death panels and ACORN, etc, etc, etc...

We must vote Republican!!  Only they can protect us!  The Democrat Party doesn't even acknowledge these threats to our freedoms!


... and don't forget all those women claiming to have gotten pregnant from rape! Lying whores, the lot of 'em.
 
2013-03-02 11:19:25 PM  

Hobodeluxe: the war on American workers has been ongoing in earnest since

Reagan took office the industrial revolution began.
 
2013-03-02 11:22:10 PM  

walkingtall: Wages have gone down because the labor pool doubled in 20 years or so.


So you don't think it has anything to do with CEO's hoarding most of the profits while giving their employees crap for wages? You just think there are too many workers?
 
2013-03-02 11:31:35 PM  
So you don't think it has anything to do with CEO's hoarding most of the profits while giving their employees crap for wages? You just think there are too many workers?

CEOS are smart people. They know that for every worker there are 2 maybe 3 right behind them waiting for the job. You make up a set of skills in any area you want. Make the list 50 items long. Give me a couple weeks Ill have 25 people that can do it. That is why the rich have taken all the efficiency gains for the past 30 years. Because they can. And there is nothing govt can do about it. If some of you fark progressives have an answer I would love to hear it. Taxes arent it.
 
2013-03-02 11:45:57 PM  

JohnnyC: walkingtall: Wages have gone down because the labor pool doubled in 20 years or so.

So you don't think it has anything to do with CEO's hoarding most of the profits while giving their employees crap for wages? You just think there are too many workers?


Makes sense; when a restaurant attracts more customers, the portions get smaller and the chef gets fatter.
 
2013-03-02 11:49:05 PM  
Don't worry. It is Never Obama's fault.
It is always the Republicans fault.
 
2013-03-02 11:51:06 PM  

walkingtall: If some of you fark progressives have an answer I would love to hear it. Taxes arent it.


An extremely progressive estate tax that starts at 1 million. Within a generation the National Debt will disappear.

Do the math.
 
2013-03-02 11:54:44 PM  
I honestly don't understand how anybody can get through High School (where I went, Econ was a required course) without understanding why Trickle-Down Economics is a complete and utter bullshiat sham.

Let's remember, supply and demand.

Corporations are purely profit driven. For better or for worse, that is precisely what they are. They raise wages precisely enough to keep bodies working and they hire ONLY when they need more people doing the job to maintain their business. This is simple supply and demand. When you need a worker, you hire a worker. The CEO being handed a tax break and suddenly having more money doesn't make companies hire workers that they wouldn't otherwise need any more than getting a tax break makes my wife and I buy a third car, despite having nobody to drive it. There is no logical reason that this works and there is fact behind it specifically not working.

What DOES raise hiring? Business. And you know what makes business? People who have disposable income to spend. The rich, unlike the middle class and the poor, don't tend to  have appreciable specific points to spend in which they can improve their quality of life and thus when they get a tax break that goes into the bank and takes precisely no more effort than it would otherwise to manage. If I get a tax break? I spend it on necessities. I get my car's tail light repaired. I go out to eat for special occasions at nicer places. I buy clothes. All of that gets recycled into the economy and into the pockets of the rich who own those businesses. Income does not "trickle down" and it never has. It trickles up.

But facts and logic are much less important to these dolts than whatever their overlords tell them to think, because after all, they're rich and by the standards of your average moron, that means that they are good people because God makes good people wealthy, you see?
 
2013-03-02 11:55:59 PM  

walkingtall: So you don't think it has anything to do with CEO's hoarding most of the profits while giving their employees crap for wages? You just think there are too many workers?

CEOS are smart people. They know that for every worker there are 2 maybe 3 right behind them waiting for the job. You make up a set of skills in any area you want. Make the list 50 items long. Give me a couple weeks Ill have 25 people that can do it. That is why the rich have taken all the efficiency gains for the past 30 years. Because they can. And there is nothing govt can do about it. If some of you fark progressives have an answer I would love to hear it. Taxes arent it.


I'm pretty sure the answer is to eliminate the credit and welfare that artificially support the lower and middle classes, which is how the rich have managed to accumulate virtually all the wealth without eliminating the consumer base which supports the economy the rich prosper in.  Today's lower and shrinking middle classes buy things with debt/subsidies, because they don't have wealth to spend.  Remove that ability, and everything should correct itself.

Of course, this has gone on long enough that, were that to happen, there would be a massive recession.  Moreover, because we've waited until after all the wealth has been drained from the lower/middle class to implement this policy, huge portions of the populace would suddenly be unable to support themselves.  As a result, the correction would probably take the same form it did in France during the late 1700's.  At this point, I'm not 100% sure that would be a bad thing.
 
2013-03-02 11:59:46 PM  

NewportBarGuy: I really pity those that can't read/understand economic reports.


Jesus tap-dancing Christ, THIS! Subby should be beaten like a rented mule.
 
2013-03-03 12:01:42 AM  

cretinbob: [freethoughtblogs.com image 500x607]


so, aspire to be a CEO?
 
2013-03-03 12:02:03 AM  

Jackson Herring: Japan is apparently North Korea now


I am disappointed by the lack of fat dog or fart references in this post.

/Sorry, JH, you've been typecast.
 
2013-03-03 12:04:45 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: After-what pay? What do you mean?

Sent from my gold-plated iPhone via satellite link from my 300-ft. yacht.


Liar. Its only 297 feet. You have 26 minutes left....
 
m00
2013-03-03 12:11:53 AM  

Emposter: Yeah, this is totally Obummer's fault, not at all the fault of the party that is constantly not only refusing to implement a rational progressive tax policy but also trying to shift even greater burdens onto the non-rich while cutting taxes for the rich, trying to repeal the minimum wage and block increases, and working to get rid of overtime, among many other wonderful proposals that totally aren't a class war against the middle class when THEY do them.


Yeah, I hate to break it to you but the rich don't have a tax burden. Cap gains is 15%. Until Obama advocates making income and cap gains equally taxed (or, God forbid, cap gains more), wealth will continue to be funneled from the middle class to the wealthy. All this nonsense they're debating over now is Obama wants to shift the tax burden to the upper middle class and the Republicans want to shift it to the lower middle class. But neither party is serious about taxing the rich.
 
2013-03-03 12:12:43 AM  

earthworm2.0: Lenny_da_Hog: After-what pay? What do you mean?

Sent from my gold-plated iPhone via satellite link from my 300-ft. yacht.

Liar. Its only 297 feet. You have 26 minutes left....


It *does* take me 26 minutes to walk from the fly-deck to the on-board gym.
 
2013-03-03 12:17:43 AM  
FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.
 
2013-03-03 12:19:03 AM  

russlar: cretinbob: [freethoughtblogs.com image 500x607]

so, aspire to be a CEO?


Yes    I did and I am a CEO    Well, technically I'm the CFO, but it's close enough.  So the answer is YES
 
2013-03-03 12:22:35 AM  

whidbey: FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.


Heretic!  How dare you criticize the Sacred Job Creators, hallowed be their names?  Step back and realize that you strike out only in envy and jealousy.  Once you have realized this, you can set forth on the path of salvation, where you will give wealth to the Holy Job Creators, and perhaps, in their infinite compassion, they might allow a miniscule fraction of that wealth might trickle back to you.
 
2013-03-03 12:30:35 AM  

Emposter: whidbey: FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.

Heretic!  How dare you criticize the Sacred Job Creators, hallowed be their names?  Step back and realize that you strike out only in envy and jealousy.  Once you have realized this, you can set forth on the path of salvation, where you will give wealth to the Holy Job Creators, and perhaps, in their infinite compassion, they might allow a miniscule fraction of that wealth might trickle back to you.


img.photobucket.com

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-03 12:30:42 AM  

whidbey: FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.


OH YEAH??  Well...um...rugged individualism...something...bootstraps...rational self-interest...something, something...YOU'RE A COMMUNIST AREN'T YOU?!?!??
 
m00
2013-03-03 12:33:23 AM  

Emposter: Heretic! How dare you criticize the Sacred Job Creators, hallowed be their names? Step back and realize that you strike out only in envy and jealousy. Once you have realized this, you can set forth on the path of salvation, where you will give wealth to the Holy Job Creators, and perhaps, in their infinite compassion, they might allow a miniscule fraction of that wealth might trickle back to you.


Yeah it's not that. Republicans have been sold the idea that all socialism is evil, and the America should be economically fair, and that the super-wealthy earned their money fairly and squarely and therefore ethically entitled to every cent they earned. It is true there are job creators, which are small business owners that built their store up from nothing... unfortunately they get lumped together with Hedge Fund Manager #239 when it comes time for penalties but not when it comes time for benefits.

What conservatives fail to realize is that other than small business owners, the rich are wealthy largely because of socialism -- the system is broken and distributes wealth to them in the form of tax policy, tax loopholes, monetary policy, capital gains, and corporate protectionism. Too Big to Fail is exactly the kind of "steal from person A to give to person B" style socialism that conservatives rail against, except in this case person B already has hundreds of millions of dollar. Or the fact that our military is deployed to protect corporate interests and trade agreements, and protect companies that outsource, but it's American workers that pay for it. The wealthy don't even pay for it because they are in the 0%-15% tax bracket.
 
m00
2013-03-03 12:34:48 AM  
And this is never going to get solved as long as the left and the right are fighting each other, rather than fighting the unholy union between government and big business. But of course, government and big business know this and provoke the right against the left, and vice versa.
 
2013-03-03 12:39:23 AM  

m00: And this is never going to get solved as long as the left and the right are fighting each other,


Actually, yes.  "The left" isn't using all its socio-political resources to quash any and all progressive legislation aimed at reforming the system.

It's the stupid farking Republicans and other social conservatives as usual,  trying to drag this country back to a time that never existed.
 
2013-03-03 12:40:25 AM  

chiett: Don't worry. It is Never Obama's fault.
It is always the Republicans fault.


It's Obama's fault wages have been stagnating over the last 40 years or so.  Damn that Time Lord!
 
m00
2013-03-03 12:53:50 AM  

whidbey: Actually, yes. "The left" isn't using all its socio-political resources to quash any and all progressive legislation aimed at reforming the system.

It's the stupid farking Republicans and other social conservatives as usual, trying to drag this country back to a time that never existed.


Nope -- the voters on both sides (at least, as represented on various online forums) are to blame. See, what you have written above is just the narrative you have been sold. "stupid farking Republicans and other social conservatives as usual... are to blame." As if one could wave a magic wand and make the Republican party disappear, that suddenly there would be economic fairness. See, conservatives have been sold exactly the same narrative, except switch R with D and conservative with liberal. The government and big business (the "culprits") have demonized each side in the eyes of the voting other, so that there can be no dialogue.

But c'mon, at the top the wealthy elite "conservatives" and wealthy elite "liberals" all go to the same country clubs, the same global invite-only conferences, and so forth. This whole Conservative vs Liberal thing is a distraction to maintain the status quo. There are of course useful idiots like Hollywood and Talk Radio, that give the scam a veneer of authenticity. This is why the tea party and OWS were so dangerous, until they were each disarmed / co-opted.

But until Republican and Democratic voters each realize the other basically wants the same thing -- a functioning meritocracy where the average person can live well (and put in hard work to live even better) but we don't let the poor, unlucky, and/or disabled starve and die in the streets -- then the scam will continue.
 
2013-03-03 12:56:34 AM  

Notabunny: Emposter: whidbey: FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.

Heretic!  How dare you criticize the Sacred Job Creators, hallowed be their names?  Step back and realize that you strike out only in envy and jealousy.  Once you have realized this, you can set forth on the path of salvation, where you will give wealth to the Holy Job Creators, and perhaps, in their infinite compassion, they might allow a miniscule fraction of that wealth might trickle back to you.

[img.photobucket.com image 680x360]


productivity increase starting in the early 80s?

wow!  if there were only some machines and things that companies started to spend a lot of money on back then to increase productivity.
 
m00
2013-03-03 12:58:27 AM  
m00:

But c'mon, at the top the wealthy elite "conservatives" and wealthy elite "liberals" all go to the same country clubs, the same global invite-only conferences, and so forth.

Oh, and I forgot to add -- pay the same 0 - 15% tax rate, and buy their mega-yachts from the same supplier, go to the same French Riviera for vacation and stay in the same 5 star hotels.
 
2013-03-03 01:00:28 AM  
Excluding food and energy costs, prices climbed 1.3 percent in January from the same month in 2012, the smallest year-to- year gain since April 2011.

how the fark do you exclude food and fuel. i went shopping yesterday and bought food, fuel and a couple of tools for work. the food and fuel were 97% of what i spent. and both more than 1.3 percent more than a year ago.

couple of years ago or so i didn't get a COLA for my SS since they used that "excluding food and fuel" shiat. i can guarantee you that my cost year over year went up no matter what the government said.

and btw fark obama and his chained CPI. let him try living with even the pathetic increase we get now.
 
2013-03-03 01:05:33 AM  

m00: whidbey: Actually, yes. "The left" isn't using all its socio-political resources to quash any and all progressive legislation aimed at reforming the system.

It's the stupid farking Republicans and other social conservatives as usual, trying to drag this country back to a time that never existed.

Nope -- the voters on both sides (at least, as represented on various online forums) are to blame. See, what you have written above is just the narrative you have been sold. "stupid farking Republicans and other social conservatives as usual... are to blame." As if one could wave a magic wand and make the Republican party disappear, that suddenly there would be economic fairness. See, conservatives have been sold exactly the same narrative, except switch R with D and conservative with liberal. The government and big business (the "culprits") have demonized each side in the eyes of the voting other, so that there can be no dialogue.


If you're describing the general sense of apathy that pervades the voting public, I would agree.

And yeah, the Republican party needs to "disappear."    We need to stop electing social conservatives to office.

And while I would  also agree that both parties are heavily influenced by big business if not outright controlled,  the Democratic Party is the only hope we have of changing the paradigm.    The biggest reason why their policies are watered down is not because of business lobbying, but because the people who voted them in by and large do not take responsibility past checking "Yes" at the ballot box.

But c'mon, at the top the wealthy elite "conservatives" and wealthy elite "liberals" all go to the same country clubs, the same global invite-only conferences, and so forth.

That might be true, but the "conservative elite" doesn't even believe in man-made climate change.  Or that we should even have a progressive tax system.   I don't understand the need to force these kinds of comparisons.

But until Republican and Democratic voters each realize the other basically wants the same thing -- a functioning meritocracy where the average person can live well (and put in hard work to live even better) but we don't let the poor, unlucky, and/or disabled starve and die in the streets -- then the scam will continue

I don't see that as a problem so much on the right.  They're already mobilized.  Their work is much easier, because this country is already politically-right dominant.

Again, we have a very powerful entity called the Democratic Party that we should be taking advantage of.  I suppose you could say the same thing of the Republican Party.  But I won't. Fark 'em.

But c'mon, at the top the wealthy elite "conservatives" and wealthy elite "liberals" all go to the same country clubs, the same global invite-only conferences, and so forth. This whole Conservative vs Liberal thing is a distraction to maintain the status quo. There are of course useful idiots like Hollywood and Talk Radio, that give the scam a veneer of authenticity. This is why the tea party and OWS were so dangerous, until they were each disarmed / co-opted.

But until Republican and Democratic voters each realize the other basically wants the same thing -- a functioning meritocracy where the average person can live well (and put in hard work to live even better) but we don't let the poor, unlucky, and/or disabled starve and die in the streets -- then the scam will continue.
 
2013-03-03 01:06:41 AM  
Max pay law.

CEO pay must be equal to or less than 100 times average company employee pay.

If the CEO is receiving maximum pay allowed but wants a raise, he needs to up the average pay by giving everyone else a raise too.
 
2013-03-03 01:07:13 AM  
xtupload.com

30 years of proof positive that trickle down economics has been a complete failure, and this picture sums it all up.

Anyone who continues to advocate the scam that is voodoo/supply side/trickle down economics is either a) a liar, or b) incompetent regarding economics.

Anytime you hear someone advocate this scam in the future feel free to challenge them with this.  Give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm happy to just call them totally incompetent.

Sad that every republican politician in congress is, when it comes to economics, either a liar or totally incompetent.
 
2013-03-03 01:09:35 AM  
YES! It's the fault of the president! Even though we have record productivity across the board, companies have NOTHING to do with how they treat their employees and you can't tell me otherwise!

/seriously, troll headline.
 
2013-03-03 01:10:41 AM  

John Henry Eden: [xtupload.com image 660x437]

30 years of proof positive that trickle down economics has been a complete failure, and this picture sums it all up.


Well, if you think about it,  what incentive does the 1% have to share its bounty with the masses who got them to the top in the first place?

Nothing legally compelling them.

And I guess they feel that throwing a bone to the rabble works every now and then to at least keep our society appearing to look brim with commerce.
 
2013-03-03 01:16:33 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Notabunny: Emposter: whidbey: FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.

Heretic!  How dare you criticize the Sacred Job Creators, hallowed be their names?  Step back and realize that you strike out only in envy and jealousy.  Once you have realized this, you can set forth on the path of salvation, where you will give wealth to the Holy Job Creators, and perhaps, in their infinite compassion, they might allow a miniscule fraction of that wealth might trickle back to you.

[img.photobucket.com image 680x360]

productivity increase starting in the early 80s?

wow!  if there were only some machines and things that companies started to spend a lot of money on back then to increase productivity.


What's your point?

The use of machines excuses corporate greed and increasing wealth disparity?
 
2013-03-03 01:17:15 AM  
I can't wait to see this wealth start trickling down already!
 
2013-03-03 01:20:36 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: tenpoundsofcheese: Notabunny: Emposter: whidbey: FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.

Heretic!  How dare you criticize the Sacred Job Creators, hallowed be their names?  Step back and realize that you strike out only in envy and jealousy.  Once you have realized this, you can set forth on the path of salvation, where you will give wealth to the Holy Job Creators, and perhaps, in their infinite compassion, they might allow a miniscule fraction of that wealth might trickle back to you.

[img.photobucket.com image 680x360]

productivity increase starting in the early 80s?

wow!  if there were only some machines and things that companies started to spend a lot of money on back then to increase productivity.

What's your point?

The use of machines excuses corporate greed and increasing wealth disparity?


I know lots of people that think a person doing the work of 3-4 people still only entitles them to the salary of 1 person.

I can't complain though, I've been consistently getting raises over the last 5 years, so they have been compensating me more as I take on the responsibilities of employees that leave or are laid off.

But I work for a decent company.
 
2013-03-03 01:20:46 AM  

Sheila_McSly: Just in case you think sanity is about to prevail, Republicans have decided this is the perfect time to revisit Medicare vouchers.


Republican congressmen, you worthless farks!
 
2013-03-03 01:21:20 AM  

YoungSwedishBlonde: I can't wait to see this wealth start trickling down already!


Just stand in an alleyway downtown.  You'll feel something trickling from above, all right.
 
2013-03-03 01:27:29 AM  
Go and f*ck yourself, Drew Curtis.
 
2013-03-03 01:27:55 AM  
I figured it out!

To get the trickle down to work, we need to punch holes in the job creators so their holy juices can pour over us.
 
2013-03-03 01:29:36 AM  

utharda: I figured it out!

To get the trickle down to work, we need to punch holes in the job creators so their holy juices can pour over us.


Worth a go, anyhow.
 
2013-03-03 01:30:19 AM  

meat0918: I know lots of people that think a person doing the work of 3-4 people still only entitles them to the salary of 1 person.


It's a real hard argument to break.

Cost always seems to trump long-term benefit.

Seriously, corporate tyranny is the new civil rights hotness.  Affects 99% of us.
 
2013-03-03 01:31:37 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Notabunny: Emposter: whidbey: FAIL tag is for submitter, who would rather blame government because it needs to collect revenues instead of recognizing that huge corporations have been farking the American worker for decades now with deflated wages in spite of huge profit margins.

Heretic!  How dare you criticize the Sacred Job Creators, hallowed be their names?  Step back and realize that you strike out only in envy and jealousy.  Once you have realized this, you can set forth on the path of salvation, where you will give wealth to the Holy Job Creators, and perhaps, in their infinite compassion, they might allow a miniscule fraction of that wealth might trickle back to you.

[img.photobucket.com image 680x360]

productivity increase starting in the early 80s?

wow!  if there were only some machines and things that companies started to spend a lot of money on back then to increase productivity.


Um, no. If you look carefully, you'll see productivity was increasing steadily before the 1980s.
 
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