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(Washington Times)   Fewer math teachers, more assistant offensive line coaches and deputy superintendents for diversity enhancement (grades 4-5) - now THAT will fix our education system   (washingtontimes.com) divider line 70
    More: Fail, deputy superintendent, educations, National Center for Education Statistics, Virginia Department of Education, school division, federal Department of Education, diversity, school vouchers  
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4452 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2013 at 12:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-02 03:34:12 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: WhackingDay: I bet you can chart the decline of American education on a simple graph showing the ratio of teachers to administrators. I honestly do not understand the need for so many of them. And it's even worse in higher eduction.

/dnrtfa

In higher ed it's being driven by simple consumerism.  Students today expect levels of service vastly beyond what college students used to.

Don't have a fully staffed, state of the art athletic center?  Students will go someplace else
Don't have a fully staffed physical and mental health department?[1]  Students will go someplace else
Don't have a dedicated computer repair department along with both wired and wireless access everywhere?  Students will go someplace else


Complete BS.  Except for the children of the 1%, that vast majority of parents and their students consider cost as the major factor.  In fact I have never met a student or parent who thinks differently.  Given that college costs have outrun inflation for something like 40 years in a row now, this should come as no surprise.  There are many reasons why college costs have increased but a demand for better dorms is not one of them.

One of the biggest factors has to do with how college presidents are evaluated by their board of trustees.  With no bottom line profits to measure, presidents are usually evaluated on the changing value of the assets of the college itself, i.e. the endowment and facilities.  An easy way to enhance the bottom line is by building new buildings and/or renovating existing ones

 Add into this the college having to handle helicopter parents- having the folks at academic advising run interference for me with pissed off parents saves my sanity.

While unfortunate, this is a direct result of soaring college costs.  As costs skyrocket year after year, the people who really pay most of the bills have gradually taken a greater interest in what their money is buying.

[1] We've had inquiries if we have an inpatient treatment center to handle the mental health issues of their little snowflake.  Folks, if your kid needs constant inpatient treatment they shouldn't be at college.

And I've heard stories of professors taking off on four week book tours or endless research conferences or other boondoggles in the middle of the semester or colleges not providing enough slots for courses required for graduations, forcing students to go longer and pay more.  It's sad that money has increasingly been playing a larger role in higher education but colleges set the prices and this is the game they have chosen.
 
2013-03-02 03:38:53 PM

randomjsa: Schools have long since lost the idea of teaching and are now more interested in becoming perpetuation machines.

We pay more for significantly worse results when it comes to education.


Why even bother with schools? You can learn anything from the Internet now.
 
2013-03-02 03:43:32 PM

bmihura: Why even bother with schools? You can learn anything from the Internet now.


Structure.  And history.  And a sense of forward motion when engaged in learning.  History especially.  The 1% want NOTHING more than for the serfs to forget their history.
 
2013-03-02 03:50:03 PM

dv-ous: Paduke: As a special ed teacher, I sometimes find myself in comical situations where there are 4 or 5 adults in a room with 28 kids at a time. The gen ed teacher and I are running around like crazy people and are being evaluated by school administrators, special ed coordinators, reading coaches, etc. Kids are pretty used to random people in the back of the room writing in notebooks and IPads and wasting everyone's time.

On the flipside, as a special ed teacher in my district, you'd be pretty used to 4 or 5 adults in a room with <20 kids, getting (as much as possible) individualized assistance from classroom aides.

On the whole, we have about 2 aides for every three teachers. Throw other support staff (lunchroom people, janitors, secretaries, etc.,) we DEFINITELY have more nonteachers than teachers. In the military, they call it the tooth-to-tail ratio.

/IT guy
//Technically also a classroom aide.


That's nothing. out E.D. program has nine adults for eight students. And they still have to call the police when one starts to run away because we can't grab them without risking a lawsuit.
 
2013-03-02 03:54:19 PM

DrZiffle: studs up: DrZiffle: leevis: DrZiffle: Conservatives undermine public education for decades, and then they're shocked, SHOCKED that public education is broken.

0/10

It's politicians from both sides that have screwed the system up. Some of them have been more concerned about slashing the budget, some of them have more concerned about turning it into a political indoctrination center.

Not a troll. Conservatives consistently support vouchers for private schools and attempt to break teachers unions. Keep you false equivalences to yourself.

Only if you keep your red herrings in the fridge.

It's only a red herring if it isn't true.

Conservative support the voucher system and undermine unions. These actions are not in the best interests of public education.


A red herring can't be true? Moran. Those union teachers haven't helped you at all.
 
2013-03-02 03:57:27 PM

Crewmannumber6: studs up: Crewmannumber6: We could focus on more important things if you farkin people would actually raise your kids instead of expecting the schools to do it for you
It's exclusionary?
Is your argument that we should continue to expect crap results from our educational system because jello? Parents really don't expect the teachers to "raise" our children. We expect them to teach basic skills. We also expect that they do that without leeching the public trust and wasting our treasure on cronyism, protection rackets and incompetence. Is THAT too much too ask?
I think so in this era.
We don't want teachers to raise our kids moran. Get a brian....

No, the educational system is a resource to be taken advantage of. If the children/parents choose to disregard that resource it is not the schools fault. If parents don't raise their kids to sit down, shut up and pay attention when teacher is speaking, then we can't blame the schools when the kids can't read good or do other stuff good either.


wow
 
2013-03-02 04:03:31 PM
For those of you who have turned to vehemently arguing about the money football that is now the focus of education, you may want to reflect upon the fact that - as far as can be ascertained - whenever something becomes primarily about money, what it's supposed to be about become a tertiary concern at best.  Shoveling every single thing we do into the maw of our favorite, dime store tin god, money, so far - has been the problem.  Education, medicine, governance.  All obliterated under the sh*tstorm of these precious debt notes we have to keep moving around, hopefully toward us, and left useless and cowering at god money's feet.  Education isn't about education.  Or children, or their future, or well being or excellence.  It's about who gets to put what part of the dwindling budget into the trunk of their car.  And until we do something about that, the rest of this is the textbook definition of moot.
 
2013-03-02 04:21:00 PM

bunner: For those of you who have turned to vehemently arguing about the money football that is now the focus of education, you may want to reflect upon the fact that - as far as can be ascertained - whenever something becomes primarily about money, what it's supposed to be about become a tertiary concern at best.  Shoveling every single thing we do into the maw of our favorite, dime store tin god, money, so far - has been the problem.  Education, medicine, governance.  All obliterated under the sh*tstorm of these precious debt notes we have to keep moving around, hopefully toward us, and left useless and cowering at god money's feet.  Education isn't about education.  Or children, or their future, or well being or excellence.  It's about who gets to put what part of the dwindling budget into the trunk of their car.  And until we do something about that, the rest of this is the textbook definition of moot.


this!!!
 
2013-03-02 04:37:04 PM
I've always liked Germany's school model. At 14 they take an aptitude test; that test determines if they go on to college, or to a trade school or if they get Das Boot.

I also feel that; we should let troublesome/disruptive children remove themselves from the system. By removing those that don't want an education; you free up resources for those that do. It's kind of harsh; but, it would be their choice. Plus, no pubic assistance, ever, for anyone who doesn't graduate high school or get their G.E.D
 
2013-03-02 05:02:14 PM

DrZiffle: studs up: DrZiffle: leevis: DrZiffle: Conservatives undermine public education for decades, and then they're shocked, SHOCKED that public education is broken.

0/10

It's politicians from both sides that have screwed the system up. Some of them have been more concerned about slashing the budget, some of them have more concerned about turning it into a political indoctrination center.

Not a troll. Conservatives consistently support vouchers for private schools and attempt to break teachers unions. Keep you false equivalences to yourself.

Only if you keep your red herrings in the fridge.

It's only a red herring if it isn't true.

Conservative support the voucher system and undermine unions. These actions are not in the best interests of public education.


See, first you state a fact, then you state an opinion as if it were also fact.  That my friend is serious cognitive dissonance.

It's also the point you seem to be missing.
 
2013-03-02 05:20:44 PM

Resident Muslim: I'm not sure what you guys are objecting to.

Society needs its oil-change specialists and its NFL players.


You forgot gold-diggers.
 
2013-03-02 05:26:55 PM

bmihura: randomjsa: Schools have long since lost the idea of teaching and are now more interested in becoming perpetuation machines.

We pay more for significantly worse results when it comes to education.

Why even bother with schools? You can learn anything from the Internet now.


Learning alone, one misses out on the glow of superiority that comes with watching classmates make mistakes.  It can lead to low self-esteem if the only mistakes you see are your own.
 
2013-03-02 05:27:26 PM

iheartscotch: I've always liked Germany's school model. At 14 they take an aptitude test; that test determines if they go on to college, or to a trade school or if they get Das Boot.

I also feel that; we should let troublesome/disruptive children remove themselves from the system. By removing those that don't want an education; you free up resources for those that do. It's kind of harsh; but, it would be their choice. Plus, no pubic assistance, ever, for anyone who doesn't graduate high school or get their G.E.D


I think the Europeans appreciate trade skills a lot more than we do here in the U.S., which is a damn shame.
 
2013-03-02 05:36:44 PM

studs up: Crewmannumber6: studs up: Crewmannumber6: We could focus on more important things if you farkin people would actually raise your kids instead of expecting the schools to do it for you
It's exclusionary?
Is your argument that we should continue to expect crap results from our educational system because jello? Parents really don't expect the teachers to "raise" our children. We expect them to teach basic skills. We also expect that they do that without leeching the public trust and wasting our treasure on cronyism, protection rackets and incompetence. Is THAT too much too ask?
I think so in this era.
We don't want teachers to raise our kids moran. Get a brian....

No, the educational system is a resource to be taken advantage of. If the children/parents choose to disregard that resource it is not the schools fault. If parents don't raise their kids to sit down, shut up and pay attention when teacher is speaking, then we can't blame the schools when the kids can't read good or do other stuff good either.

wow


While I'm somewhat ashamed to admit knowing this, I'm fairly certain he was quoting Zoolander.
 
2013-03-02 05:37:34 PM
When I was in high school ten years ago*, it was the coaches that were the history "teachers".
During this time, a multimillion dollar "entertainment complex" was built to football stadium. Of course, on the other side of the street is a megachurch.

My town deserves its fate.


(Ouch.  Was it really over ten years ago?)
 
2013-03-02 06:08:46 PM

God-is-a-Taco: When I was in high school ten years ago*, it was the coaches that were the history "teachers".
During this time, a multimillion dollar "entertainment complex" was built to football stadium. Of course, on the other side of the street is a megachurch.

My town deserves its fate.


(Ouch.  Was it really over ten years ago?)


Don't feel bad, my 20th reunion is coming up in a few months. We didn't have a big football stadium or megachurch, though. No football team, the one church in town was pretty small. My school was surrounded by a handful of houses, a sheep farm, and corn fields.
 
2013-03-02 07:14:19 PM
In the District, there are 13 students for every teacher, but only 10 students for every nonclassroom employee, the study says.

 Absolutely and in money terms DC pays more per student than any state in the US and yet is next to last when it comes to educating them.  You always know when your around a bunch of DC teachers by the rumble of the ground and super wide women with butts so big that they make Rosie O'donnell look like a super model.

The teachers can't teach, but they sure can run their mouths,
 
2013-03-02 07:43:02 PM

iheartscotch: I've always liked Germany's school model. At 14 they take an aptitude test; that test determines if they go on to college, or to a trade school or if they get Das Boot.


They get a submarine? That would be sweet.
 
2013-03-02 08:37:43 PM

bunner: bmihura: Why even bother with schools? You can learn anything from the Internet now.

Structure.  And history.  And a sense of forward motion when engaged in learning.  History especially.  The 1% want NOTHING more than for the serfs to forget their history.


That is a good point, especially the central bank. I'll bet it's not even mentioned in history books, since all three former central banks nearly took out the entire nation.

The fourth and current central bank, or the "Federal Reserve", is about to take out the nation again because we cannot learn from history.
 
2013-03-03 07:12:31 AM

Fizpez: It wasn't MY solution to anything - the state blows a HUGE whole in your budget by slashing funding so they can say "lookie lookie, balanced budget!"  The school districts are left to cope best they can.


So you seem unfamiliar with the concept of the indefinite "you."

And here's a little fact you may want to remember:  Schools are not allowed to run deficits (at least in Ohio) unless they want to be taken over by the state and have their programs burned to the ground.

Are you suggesting it should be any other way?

When sports are already pay to play, when you've cut all those nice "elective" classes that tend to turn out well rounded students, when the building is being "maintained" by less than 1/2 the people it really takes, when you've already frozen salaries and increased employee payments for everything including health care about as high as you can go - the last desperate cuts are to teachers, so you overload your classrooms to the state maximum and hire babysitters for lunch.  Yes, that's what you do because there are no more moves to make.  But I'm sure you've got all the answers.

My answer that either your story is likely incomplete, or if it isn't then it is the first example of such a thing happening in modern times.  Every year our district talks about draconian cuts.  These "cuts" are consistent with the slowly declining student population and are actually increases in per-student spending even in real dollars.
 
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