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(C|Net)   Apple continues their war on Flash, and even the most ardent antiappletista can't find fault with their reasoning   (news.cnet.com) divider line 56
    More: Interesting, Adobe Flash Player, Apple, flash, Adobe, Mac OS, adaptations, political campaigns  
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5834 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Mar 2013 at 10:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-02 10:31:10 AM
MY computer brand geek culture is better than YOUR computer brand geek culture!
 
2013-03-02 10:32:28 AM
And?  Chrome automatically bundles Flash updates with its browser updates and has been for some time so unless you go out of your way to use an old version of Chrome you're using an up-to-date version of Flash by default...

This isn't really a war on Flash so much as a war on old versions of it with known vulnerabilities.
 
2013-03-02 10:35:44 AM
Flash and PDFs vulnerabilities are highly researched attack vectors.  Is this a coincidence because they're derived from Adobe, or because they are so popular?
 
2013-03-02 10:40:22 AM
not a fan of apple or its turning overpriced crap into a lifestyle for hipsters, but I am glad they are turning websites away from flash and towards modern html.

/cant wait for the day I stop updating flash.
//hopefully followed by java.
 
2013-03-02 10:45:39 AM

BumpInTheNight: Flash and PDFs vulnerabilities are highly researched attack vectors.  Is this a coincidence because they're derived from Adobe, or because they are so popular?


The latter. They're the most widely used forms of content delivery (in the form of streaming video/content and business documentation use). It's the same reason that Apple OS computers didn't really have much the worry about for viruses 10 years or so ago: Not because they were more secure, but because Microsoft-based OS machines were more prevalent. No one really gave a fark about hacking an apple machine because the user base was like...1000 people at best.

Though another part of what makes flash a terrible bit of software is that it's a resource-hogging pile of shiat, but if HTML5 or something else comes along to replace it and blows up in popularity, it'll start to see some of the same attacks.
 
2013-03-02 10:48:15 AM
i75.photobucket.com
What a war on Flash may look like, courtesy of this helpful diorama.
 
2013-03-02 10:48:44 AM
All I know is that Ubuntu+Firefox+Flash sucks. One updates and throws everything into crashing chaos until the other two catch up, at which time you have a few days before one updates again and you start over.
 
2013-03-02 11:00:28 AM

Codenamechaz: it'll start to see some of the same attacks.


Well, not really, in part because no two HTML5 implementations are guaranteed to be the same*.

*I mean, aside from the fact that WebKit has conquered the web. But even then, we're not really looking at HTML5 vulnerabilities, we're looking at WebKit vulnerabilities. They're different classes of attack, and a browser, overall, has a much  much larger surface area than a plugin. The problem with plugins like Flash is that they further increase the attack surface of the browser,  and they complicate the memory management. And Flash sucks, but that's a sub-point.

The point I'm getting at is that by removing Flash, you're changing the attacks to  browser attacks- a piece of software you're using anyway. HTML5 doesn't really add much by way of novel attacks (although since every browser implements Local Storage wrong, a malicious page can DoS your HDD). Most of the serious browser-based attacks not involving plugins would probably focus on buffer overruns and code injections in the document processing pipeline.
 
2013-03-02 11:07:59 AM
What they got against 'ol Flash anyways?

25.media.tumblr.com

Bet it was them Duke boys what put them up to it.

 
2013-03-02 11:18:48 AM
You know who else fought against Flash?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-02 11:50:46 AM

Dr. Goldshnoz: not a fan of apple or its turning overpriced crap into a lifestyle for hipsters, but I am glad they are turning websites away from flash and towards modern html.

/cant wait for the day I stop updating flash.
//hopefully followed by java.


Jeez, Java is the neediest biatch ever designed.I can't turn on my computer without it begging to update.
 
2013-03-02 11:59:51 AM

Dr. Goldshnoz: not a fan of apple or its turning overpriced crap into a lifestyle for hipsters, but I am glad they are turning websites away from flash and towards modern html.

/cant wait for the day I stop updating flash.
//hopefully followed by java.


fking this. We changed our time management system at work. The company they  went with uses flash/java combo for it. And it crashes when we update java.
Nothing like having to run multiple instances of java because vendors don't want to update this fking programs.
 
2013-03-02 12:07:05 PM

Unoriginal_Username: uses flash/java combo


archive.heinessen.com
 
2013-03-02 12:09:21 PM
Warring on Flash has gotten a lot more difficult, ever since he joined with the Venom symbiote.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-02 12:29:38 PM
Will Apple ever stop trying to destroy Flash? We get it, your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them? The iPhone is on life support while no one can keep the Nexus in stock.

/fark patent trolls
 
2013-03-02 12:33:27 PM

YouIsATard: your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them?


Adobe "picked" Android over the iPhone? Was this before or after Adobe announced they weren't releasing any new mobile Flash versions? Or are you confusing, "There's no way we'd let Flash into the AppStore" as Adobe snubbing Apple?
 
2013-03-02 12:42:30 PM

YouIsATard: Will Apple ever stop trying to destroy Flash? We get it, your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them? The iPhone is on life support while no one can keep the Nexus in stock.

/fark patent trolls


/fark Fark trolls.
 
2013-03-02 12:51:49 PM

t3knomanser: YouIsATard: your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them?

Adobe "picked" Android over the iPhone? Was this before or after Adobe announced they weren't releasing any new mobile Flash versions? Or are you confusing, "There's no way we'd let Flash into the AppStore" as Adobe snubbing Apple?


Who has Flash and who doesn't?
 
2013-03-02 01:06:11 PM

pastorkius: And?  Chrome automatically bundles Flash updates with its browser updates and has been for some time so unless you go out of your way to use an old version of Chrome you're using an up-to-date version of Flash by default...

This isn't really a war on Flash so much as a war on old versions of it with known vulnerabilities.


The Apple version of this isn't implemented well compared to Chrome, though. I was actually worried the first time I saw the message, because I thought it was malware posing as Flash that was trying to trick me into downloading it. They really need to do a better job of letting people know it is legit.
 
2013-03-02 01:16:25 PM

t3knomanser: Codenamechaz: it'll start to see some of the same attacks.

Well, not really, in part because no two HTML5 implementations are guaranteed to be the same*.

*I mean, aside from the fact that WebKit has conquered the web. But even then, we're not really looking at HTML5 vulnerabilities, we're looking at WebKit vulnerabilities. They're different classes of attack, and a browser, overall, has a much  much larger surface area than a plugin. The problem with plugins like Flash is that they further increase the attack surface of the browser,  and they complicate the memory management. And Flash sucks, but that's a sub-point.

The point I'm getting at is that by removing Flash, you're changing the attacks to  browser attacks- a piece of software you're using anyway. HTML5 doesn't really add much by way of novel attacks (although since every browser implements Local Storage wrong, a malicious page can DoS your HDD). Most of the serious browser-based attacks not involving plugins would probably focus on buffer overruns and code injections in the document processing pipeline.


Say it in English, Doc
 
2013-03-02 01:17:45 PM

YouIsATard: t3knomanser: YouIsATard: your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them?

Adobe "picked" Android over the iPhone? Was this before or after Adobe announced they weren't releasing any new mobile Flash versions? Or are you confusing, "There's no way we'd let Flash into the AppStore" as Adobe snubbing Apple?

Who has Flash and who doesn't?




Android Jellybean does not natively support flash. So... You're pretty much posting out your ass.
 
2013-03-02 01:21:17 PM

YouIsATard: Will Apple ever stop trying to destroy Flash? We get it, your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them? The iPhone is on life support while no one can keep the Nexus in stock.

/fark patent trolls


1/10 - weak troll, but I gave a point because someone bit.
 
2013-03-02 01:26:17 PM
If Apple wants to block an unreliable, bug-ridden, resource hogging piece of crap like flash from their browser, more power to em.
 
2013-03-02 01:33:44 PM
Anything you can do in Flash, you can do in JS/jQuery, and you have been for awhile. And JS isn't nearly as much of a resource hog, nor does it require a plugin. So yeah, Flash is about as relevant as Excite.com or will be soon enough.
 
2013-03-02 01:38:17 PM

BumpInTheNight: Flash and PDFs vulnerabilities are highly researched attack vectors.  Is this a coincidence because they're derived from Adobe, or because they are so popular?


Can`t it be both?
 
2013-03-02 01:39:06 PM

The Martian Manhandler: Warring on Flash has gotten a lot more difficult, ever since he joined with the Venom symbiote.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 672x864]


Wait, flash lost his legs and bonded with venom?

When did this happen?
 
2013-03-02 01:41:52 PM
asset2.cbsistatic.com
so just click the link. Why are we even reading about this?
 
2013-03-02 01:49:33 PM

YouIsATard: t3knomanser: YouIsATard: your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them?

Adobe "picked" Android over the iPhone? Was this before or after Adobe announced they weren't releasing any new mobile Flash versions? Or are you confusing, "There's no way we'd let Flash into the AppStore" as Adobe snubbing Apple?

Who has Flash and who doesn't?


I don't own a Toyota. By your logic, this must mean that Toyota picked someone else over me.

iPhones generally don't have Flash because Apple didn't put it there and won't make it available through official channels. This was Apple's choice. iOS versions of Flash exist- you have to jailbreak to install them.
 
2013-03-02 02:05:15 PM
I have a sudden, inexplicable craving for an antipasto salad after reading that headline.
 
2013-03-02 02:06:21 PM
www.hahastop.com

Seriously, they're all data-mining the shiat out of us, who cares which evil corp you support.
 
2013-03-02 02:06:25 PM

dready zim: [asset2.cbsistatic.com image 422x164]
so just click the link. Why are we even reading about this?


See, this is what I am talking about. For anyone tech savvy, this just seems like an internet version of the Free Candy van. I'm sure for a lot of people, they'll just click the link, but it seems fishy for anyone who has been around and seen those Trojans that try to use pop ups to trick you into installing them.
 
2013-03-02 02:16:30 PM

dready zim: The Martian Manhandler: Warring on Flash has gotten a lot more difficult, ever since he joined with the Venom symbiote.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 672x864]

Wait, flash lost his legs and bonded with venom?

When did this happen?


It's Flash Thompson (one of Spider-Man's high school buddies). He lost his legs in the Iraq War, and has been bonded with Venom for about two years.
 
2013-03-02 02:49:06 PM

t3knomanser: I mean, aside from the fact that WebKit has conquered the web


WebKit is the most popular single framework, but it's still only at about 40% market share overall.

t3knomanser: although since every browser implements Local Storage wrong, a malicious page can DoS your HDD


Firefox is not vulnerable to that issue, unless there are more attack vectors for it than I'm aware of.

/programmer
//does a bunch of web-related stuff these days
 
2013-03-02 03:03:43 PM
Is anyone else having massive 60 second lags with flash after updating to FF 18 or 19?
Flash seems almost bent on it's own inevitable marketplace decline - every version keeps getting glitchier and glitchier.
 
2013-03-02 03:11:37 PM

Somaticasual: Is anyone else having massive 60 second lags with flash after updating to FF 18 or 19?
Flash seems almost bent on it's own inevitable marketplace decline - every version keeps getting glitchier and glitchier.


Not recently but yah every few months they slide some updates and between the two of them Flash content can occasionally lock the entire browser, I found it was worse when there's some other quasi browser thing happening too like the steam or origin clients are open.
 
2013-03-02 03:14:04 PM
asset2.cbsistatic.com

I'm not one for an OS forcing anyone to upgrade anything.

What if someone was on a machine that wasn't connected to a network and they were experimenting with a specific version of flash (perhaps testing it for further vunerabilities).

They should instead disable flash, throw up a warning, but let the user (stupidly) enable the old version again if they want to. Some people might actually have a legitimate reason for using an old version.

swahnhennessy: All I know is that Ubuntu+Firefox+Flash sucks. One updates and throws everything into crashing chaos until the other two catch up,

Must be something specifically up with your machine, firefox separates the process for plugins away from the browser itself, so I can actually kill -9 the flash process (and it kills all flash in every tab of the browser without bringing the browser down).

All of the flash embeds get replaced with this when I do that.

lordargent.com
// no report available because I killed it on purpose to take that screenshot :P
 
2013-03-02 03:15:36 PM

Somaticasual: Is anyone else having massive 60 second lags with flash after updating to FF 18 or 19?
Flash seems almost bent on it's own inevitable marketplace decline - every version keeps getting glitchier and glitchier.


Yeah, for some reason the Flash update froze after I updated to FF19, so I ended the process through Windows Task Manager. When I tried to delete the partial download in the My Documents/Downloads folder, I kept getting a message that the file was being used by another process/user. I finally had to download a tool called Unlocker (http://download.cnet.com/Unlocker/3000-2248_4-10493998.html) to get rid of it.
 
2013-03-02 03:21:22 PM

lordargent: What if someone was on a machine that wasn't connected to a network and they were experimenting with a specific version of flash (perhaps testing it for further vunerabilities).


I'm sure that'd go over super well.
"Hey maybe we shouldn't force updates to those really buggy apps like Flash."
"Why not?"
"What if someone is trying to write an exploit for an older version and can't because we keep forcing them to upgrade?"
"By god man you're right!  Let's halt this draconian security posturing, in the name of the poor hackers who's lives we're making so much harder."

/Don't worry, I know what you mean
//just you gotta imagine its gonna go down something like that :P
 
2013-03-02 03:27:03 PM
^^ Oh and if your MacOS testing platform was on a closed network...how exactly did it find out about the newer version of flash in the first place? ;)
 
2013-03-02 03:58:10 PM
People still care about flash?
 
2013-03-02 04:40:57 PM
BumpInTheNight: ^^ Oh and if your MacOS testing platform was on a closed network...how exactly did it find out about the newer version of flash in the first place? ;)

Start VM, upgrade VM, disconnect VM from the network, run tests :P

// just saying, the OS vendor shouldn't be doing mandatory anything. Even in the name of security. Even if it's a good idea.

// you can warn the shiat out of people to the point of annoyance though
 
2013-03-02 04:59:02 PM
I can fault Apple just fine, thank you.
 
2013-03-02 06:02:13 PM
With Flash, Adobe has a achieved what Sun and Oracle only dreamed of achieving with Java: a single environment where a vulnerability means users are farked no matter what platform they're using.  With Java there's at least a reasonable chance that you'll be unaffected by a particular vulnerability because there are so many different JVMs out there (Oracle/Sun makes one, IBM makes one, then there's the open-source IcedTea implementation...not to mention all the embeded variants).  There aren't many widespread alternative Flash implementations out there so when a problem is discovered in flash, you're probably farked.
 
2013-03-02 06:08:13 PM

arcas: With Flash, Adobe has a achieved what Sun and Oracle only dreamed of achieving with Java: a single environment where a vulnerability means users are farked no matter what platform they're using.  With Java there's at least a reasonable chance that you'll be unaffected by a particular vulnerability because there are so many different JVMs out there (Oracle/Sun makes one, IBM makes one, then there's the open-source IcedTea implementation...not to mention all the embeded variants).  There aren't many widespread alternative Flash implementations out there so when a problem is discovered in flash, you're probably farked.


That's the great thing about standards, there's so many to choose from.
 
2013-03-02 06:22:58 PM
Unoriginal_Username:
Nothing like having to run multiple instances of java because vendors don't want to update this fking programs.

Farking this!  This kills me.  On my company-issued laptop, there are no fewer than 3 instances of Eclipse and several more JVMs installed because of the applications that depend on them.
 
2013-03-02 07:06:13 PM
Unoriginal_Username: Nothing like having to run multiple instances of java because vendors don't want to update this fking programs.

Sorry, that's not in the budget for this sprint, focus on adding feature foo and bar.
 
rpm
2013-03-02 07:45:43 PM

lordargent: // you can warn the shiat out of people to the point of annoyance though


At which point they just turn it off (see: UAC)
 
2013-03-02 10:03:23 PM

Fano: Dr. Goldshnoz: not a fan of apple or its turning overpriced crap into a lifestyle for hipsters, but I am glad they are turning websites away from flash and towards modern html.

/cant wait for the day I stop updating flash.
//hopefully followed by java.

Jeez, Java is the neediest biatch ever designed.I can't turn on my computer without it begging to update.


I don't mind that it updates. What bugs me is that it needs to remind me that Java is used on SOOoooooOOoooOOoooooo many devices. Like I care. Just finish the damned update and get out of my way.
 
2013-03-02 10:06:15 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: YouIsATard: t3knomanser: YouIsATard: your mad that Adobe picked Android over iPhone, but can you blame them?

Adobe "picked" Android over the iPhone? Was this before or after Adobe announced they weren't releasing any new mobile Flash versions? Or are you confusing, "There's no way we'd let Flash into the AppStore" as Adobe snubbing Apple?

Who has Flash and who doesn't?

Android Jellybean does not natively support flash. So... You're pretty much posting out your ass.


Not natively. However, my Samsung Galaxy Tab's native browser allowed me to install Flash, and now I surf to game and video sites without a problem.

My iPod touch..? Not so much, unless I use Skyfire or something similar, and even then it really doesn't support gaming.
 
2013-03-02 10:16:34 PM
rpm: At which point they just turn it off (see: UAC)

Just the way it should be.
 
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