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(Washington Post)   Your mother got murdered and your dad lives in another state? Sorry, you're no longer eligible for in-state tuition   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 64
    More: Stupid, George Mason University, George Mason University in Fairfax, tuition, Virginia, Virginia Law, sole source, Ashland, Virginia Supreme Court  
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7796 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2013 at 8:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-02 11:13:18 AM  

KawaiiNot: liam76: Mere presence?  No.  Having a drivers license, Yes.

Greek: Having a job is not legally sufficient for financial independence with regards to the university system.

This.  Made it a bit tricky for me to pay for college by myself, since my parents had plenty of money but told me to pound sand when I asked for help.

Same here. I had to put off going to college despite being accepted until years later when I finally qualified under independent status.

Today I'm pretty sure kids could take their parents to court to get financial support for college and win.


I didn't finish college until I was 29 for the same reason. My mom refused to help me but her income was enough that I couldn't get any help. I hate to say it but getting knocked up and abandoned was the best way to actually get financial aid. And wow, do the states and federal governments love to through grants at you for that!
 
2013-03-02 11:38:21 AM  

weave: Mason officials declined to discuss the specifics of Molly's case, citing privacy laws, but they urged the family to consider an internal appeal. Dantzler said about 1,500 applicants appeal their denial of in-state eligibility every year, and about half win.

"We just don't have that much time and effort to put into that," Hakopian said.

 OK, I stopped right there.  You don't have time for a routine appeal but you have time to whore it up to the media?


It's March so they probably don't actually have the time for a full appeal.  They should have all their forms and stuff in sometime this month for a Fall school year.  Unless an appeal takes a week or two, it will be a little late.  I am guessing someone told them it will take months.
 
2013-03-02 11:53:07 AM  

cman: With the exception of the Bush tax cuts expiring being made a permanent feature of our tax code with only a minor 5% increase in Capital Gains


Fixed that for you

Billionaires now permanently pay less tax on their major form of income than the working poor making about 35K a year.
 
2013-03-02 12:40:32 PM  

filter: I hate that crap. My parents never paid a cent for my education, yet their income determined my financial aid?!?


Same here. The article mentions that she's being considered an 'independent student' for financial aid purposes as though that's a bad thing. That means no parental contribution will be considered in her aid package, and she'll likely get more money at whatever school she ends up attending.
 
2013-03-02 01:37:06 PM  
As soon as I saw the last name, I knew there would be a Glendale, CA, connection to the story.
 
2013-03-02 02:45:27 PM  

Fizpez: weave: Mason officials declined to discuss the specifics of Molly's case, citing privacy laws, but they urged the family to consider an internal appeal. Dantzler said about 1,500 applicants appeal their denial of in-state eligibility every year, and about half win.

"We just don't have that much time and effort to put into that," Hakopian said.

 OK, I stopped right there.  You don't have time for a routine appeal but you have time to whore it up to the media?

Yep, that's where I slammed on the mental brakes as well - outrage fled (well more like mild concern but never miss a chance for hyperbole) and I stopped caring.  There's an appeal process and you have about a 50% blind chance of winning even before the appeals board find out your mother was murdered.  And as sad as that sounds there's probably scholarships she qualifies for BECAUSE her mother was killed.


Actually, I kind of liked it.

"Sorry, we have to reject you for in-state tuition because your primary source of income, if not your primary caregiver, lives in another state."
"But I've lived in Virginia for 10 years."
"Sorry. The law says your residency is established by income dependency, not residence."
"Well, okay, I'll just go to one of these three other colleges that accepted me and my 4.3 weighted GPA more or less as an emancipated minor."
"Um...wait! There's an appeals process! You can appeal!"
"No, that's okay; I'll just take one of the other offers."
"Please appeal! You have a 50% chance of winning an appeal!"
"No, no, that's fine..."

I'm actually a little surprised that they deny so many people in-state tuition just to give it to them on appeal. The rules sound like they were written by chimpanzees.
 
2013-03-02 02:59:57 PM  

Greek: liam76: Mere presence?  No.  Having a drivers license, Yes.

Greek: Having a job is not legally sufficient for financial independence with regards to the university system.

This.  Made it a bit tricky for me to pay for college by myself, since my parents had plenty of money but told me to pound sand when I asked for help.

These rules exist for a reason- there's plenty of examples where people who really don't have any kind of excuse try to get tuition reduced/ get need- based grants and scholarships/ all kinds of favorable financial aid- but the lawmakers spent so much time trying to make sure there were no loopholes that they didn't make any consideration for exceptions. There are some "parents" out there who honestly believe that once their kids hit age 18, that they should no longer provide for them or help them in any way whatsoever. You know, just because the law absolves responsibility at that age for many things, doesn't mean you're morally absolved of responsibility. What magical thing happens on ones 18th birthday that changes them overnight from a helpless infant to a fully- prepared, fully independent adult? Everyone's circumstances are different, and the transition to "responsible adult" is a gradual one that starts BEFORE age 18, and often takes a few years AFTER to be complete. Hell, I'm a married man in my 30s. My mother has passed away. I'm totally independent of my dad now, and, in fact, I help take care of things that he can't deal with, like his English isn't that great- never has been- and now that mom's gone, I help him navigate official paperwork and such. I also help him maintain his house as he gets too old to physically do things. But I also know that if my whole world suddenly came crashing down, I could move back home if I had to to get back on my feet. And that's the way things should be. But back to my original point- things AREN'T always that way, but the laws regarding financial aid and such assume they are, and don't make exceptions for when they aren't.


I get putting parents in quotes, but they were really good. Gave me good values, gave me lots of opportunities, but just had tunnel vision when it came to college. They came from families of no college or the military paid, so they expected that out of me.

In general though the rules are farked. Getting emancipated us costly and in some states not possible when you are over 1, of course I have also heard lying about who your parents are us pretty easy.
 
2013-03-02 03:24:07 PM  
So my sister is going to the University of Michigan, and will be in a similar boat (Not in the same way.  Mom got married to a doctor near Cleveland last weekend and moved), so we asked about this prior.

At U of M, in-state status stays grandfathered.  Once you get in-state status, you keep in-state status.
 
2013-03-02 04:34:01 PM  

meyerkev: So my sister is going to the University of Michigan, and will be in a similar boat (Not in the same way.  Mom got married to a doctor near Cleveland last weekend and moved), so we asked about this prior.

At U of M, in-state status stays grandfathered.  Once you get in-state status, you keep in-state status.


as long as you don't join the Navy
 
2013-03-02 04:45:21 PM  

buzzcut73: meyerkev: So my sister is going to the University of Michigan, and will be in a similar boat (Not in the same way.  Mom got married to a doctor near Cleveland last weekend and moved), so we asked about this prior.

At U of M, in-state status stays grandfathered.  Once you get in-state status, you keep in-state status.

as long as you don't join the Navy


I should probably change that to: "so long as you don't leave college or claim personal residency in another state

/And I have no clue what happens during the undergrad->grad change.
 
2013-03-02 05:44:07 PM  
So go to school in Maryland where the dad lives, problem solved.
 
2013-03-02 07:05:07 PM  

filter: I hate that crap. My parents never paid a cent for my education, yet their income determined my financial aid?!?


That me back in 1981.  My parents thought it was better for me to pay my own way, for some fool reason. So I worked and went to school. Fortunately California State Schools were still very affordable back then. Still took me eight years to get my degree. Ten years if you count the two years I took off.

Reads the FA... Weird, if mere presence in the state for 11 years doesn't count for residency, what fark does. My bet, any such rule flies in the face of a bunch of old very settled federal court rulings.

My bet the admissions people are dumb as rocks. Me I would have talked in person with the chairman of the school I wanted to apply to.  Hopefully an email from him to the university presidents office, cc'd to the admissions office would get the river of shiat quietly rolling.
 
2013-03-02 09:42:29 PM  
I don't know what people expect.  You can't write a law with a massive list of exceptions.  Because believe me, once you've written one exception into the law, you will be hounded to add one for every personal circumstance, and there will be cries of some sort of -ism when you decline one personal circumstance but not another.

I currently work under a couple of laws that have a discretion clause written in.  It is a constant pain in my arse explaining to people that just because there is some discretion provided for truly extraordinary circumstances, doesn't mean I have to extend that discretion to them.

/The words "can" and "may" are the worst things to put into law
//Because laymen think that means "should" and "must"
 
2013-03-03 02:42:31 AM  

Saners: I never understood the logic behind in-state vs out-of-state tuition. It seems to be supported for two reasons:

1) State taxes help fund schools so students (or parents if under the age of 24) who have been paying should get a break. Except most of the time you can get around this by living in the state for a year prior. So if you're over 24 a years worth of taxes is considered enough for you to get the break but if you are under 24 screw you your money isn't good enough and your parents are either rich or you have some sweet scholarships so pay up. It also ignores internships creating a bigger selection pool for local companies.

2)  It encourages students to stay in their home location, under the guise of "well the state paid for you for the last 18 years of your life to get educated, so stay here and pay back into the system" yet it discourages students from outside the state whose primary education was not paid by the state to come in and pay into the system. Unless your college is shiat and couldn't attract students worth a damn, this sounds counterproductive.


I think it's more based on who can vote in the state.  You don't want to piss off people that can vote in your state, or have parents that can vote in your state.  Instead you can defer costs to people from out of state, pissing them off so the people that actually have a say get things a little easier.  Same goes with fishing and hunting licenses.  Last time I got a deer tag in WI it was like $12 or $20, but same thing for someone from out of state was several hundred dollars.  Same concept; the people from out of state don't have any real power, so let them pick up the tab in order to keep the voters happy.
 
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