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(SeattlePI)   Ban on plastic bags in Seattle causes less environmental pollution, more shoplifting   (seattlepi.com) divider line 74
    More: Fail, environmental pollution, Seattle, Fred Meyer, reusable bags  
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2588 clicks; posted to Business » on 02 Mar 2013 at 6:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-02 07:18:59 PM  

Trollin4Colon: Spaced Lion: ZAZ: There's bag ban talk in my area. No bag problem, but we have to follow all the progressive trends or we get kicked out of the cool cities club.

Which explains perfectly the recent bag ban in Austin about which all the local hippies are currently crowing. Nonconformists, my ass.


Yep, just went in to effect yesterday. We have a entire cabinet full of disposable plastic bags left over from previous shopping trips. Were gonna just use those to have some fun pissing off local hipsters/hippies for a while.


I'm confused, you're going to piss them off by doing what they want?
 
2013-03-02 07:56:02 PM  

JMacPA: Trollin4Colon: Yep, just went in to effect yesterday. We have a entire cabinet full of disposable plastic bags left over from previous shopping trips. Were gonna just use those to have some fun pissing off local hipsters/hippies for a while.

I'm confused, you're going to piss them off by doing what they want?


Well, to be fair, that might be the best way to piss off hipsters.
 
2013-03-02 08:59:59 PM  
Why can't they, you know, make cheap biodegradable bags?  Is that impossible?  I don't think it is.
 
2013-03-02 09:19:24 PM  

JMacPA: Trollin4Colon: Spaced Lion: ZAZ: There's bag ban talk in my area. No bag problem, but we have to follow all the progressive trends or we get kicked out of the cool cities club.

Which explains perfectly the recent bag ban in Austin about which all the local hippies are currently crowing. Nonconformists, my ass.


Yep, just went in to effect yesterday. We have a entire cabinet full of disposable plastic bags left over from previous shopping trips. Were gonna just use those to have some fun pissing off local hipsters/hippies for a while.

I'm confused, you're going to piss them off by doing what they want?


Its a Austin (And from what I gather maybe portland too) thing. I may be doing what they want but alot of the people down here will go apeshiat if they see a disposable plastic bag after the ban.
 
2013-03-02 09:30:36 PM  

lewismarktwo: Why can't they, you know, make cheap biodegradable bags? Is that impossible? I don't think it is.


Plastic bags cost about 1.2¢ per unit.  Paper bags cost about 3.5¢ per unit, and are biodegradable.  Seems fairly cheap to me.

There are plastic bags that degrade in UV light, but I recall reading that they break up into little pieces that are easily consumed by wildlife.  And supposedly replacing wood derived fibers with hemp fibers could reduce the price of paper bags slightly, but that assumes a mature hemp farming infrastructure which we won't have anytime soon (the timber and cotton lobbies push to keep it illegal).
 
2013-03-02 09:55:30 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: FTA: "Mike Duke, who operates the Lake City Grocery Outlet



I see the problem right there.
 
2013-03-02 09:55:47 PM  

my lip balm addiction: Jeezus dude. I had you farkied as a favorite, but I can see that you are just a lazy, whiny, asshole. fark you man. No more favorite are you.


The whole plastic bag ban, for someone who doesn't make a lot of money and doesn't have a car, has a lot of costs.  I can't buy as much at the store in a single trip, so I have to spend more time going to the store more often or shop at more expensive places closer to home to get everything I could previously buy in a single walk to the store.  I also end up using the same number of bags I did before the ban, but now I have the extra expense of buying them as opposed to getting them as part of my purchase, and I still go through a lot of bags (made from paper instead) that now just get recycled as soon as I get home.  Unless they get too wet, in which case they won't take them for recycling and they just end up in the trash instead.  Unlike plastic which can still be recycled if it's wet.

Beyond the can thing, the bag ban has done nothing except waste my time and cost me more a bit of extra money.  It doesn't save the environment from anything either, since I'm still using just as many plastic bags, but now they're thicker and have more packaging.

It's a stupid feel good knee jerk reaction made by a crappy mayor (in Portland's case) that punishes people who have the least environmental impact the most.  I don't see why that's a good thing, but I also don't really give a crap if I'm on favorite lists.  I'm just being pointing out that there are a lot of unintended consequences of a ban like this and almost all of them are more negative than just letting people use plastic bags.

But hey, if you feel better about screwing people over while doing little to nothing about the environment because people can't have plastic bags more power to you.
 
2013-03-02 10:01:19 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: davidphogan: Krieghund: davidphogan: Portland has a bag ban that has directly led to me throwing out cans. It's not worth the hassle to buy bags that I can take recyclables back in, so I now just throw them out.

Good work in the name of the environment.

Good news! You can put them in your curbside recycling can!

Then I have to deal with the bums dumping that shiat all over.  No thanks.

Sounds like you're just not cut out for city living. Have you tried Bumfark, Olympia yet?


No, I don't feel like paying any more ~$150 fines because a bum dumped the recycling bin all over the sidewalk while I was at work again.  If I had a secure area to keep a recycling bin that'd be nice, but unfortunately only the garbage cans fit in there and my landlord's not going to build out more space just to keep our recycling locked up.

Until I move or the deposit goes away so bums won't dump my recycling all over the sidewalk looking for nickles I'll probably keep throwing them out.  If one of my neighbors wants to deal with cans I'd be happy to give them away, but the bag ban already is costing me enough money I'm not going to risk letting it become even more expensive again.
 
2013-03-02 10:03:32 PM  
Well I know where to avoid shopping now. We truck drivers don't do any recycling, there's no infrastructure for it at truck stops and we rely on plastic bags for tossing out our two bags of garbage a day. Garbage like plastic pop bottles, empty Chef Boyardi cans, Monster aluminum cans. We go through plastic bags like crazy. I know drivers who will just take about 50 of them at a time from Walmarts after they pay for their purchases. Just empty out a rack on a carousel. Those disposable plastic bags have two handles that fit over arm rests, etc in truck cabs.

A world without plastic bags might bring interstate commerce to a grinding halt.
 
2013-03-02 10:20:29 PM  
If you really want bags, buy a case on ebay (or even cheaper at Costco...if they still sell them at stores in 'banned' areas.

And bags sold for garbage aren't really that expensive if you buy the cheapest, biggest box you can find. I have never noticed a difference between the no-name brand and "Hefty" bags. A box of 60 kitchen bags lasts quite a while unless you take your trash out every day for some reason...and not really breaking the bank @ $3 a box when they're on sale.

More stores should be providing used boxes to take stuff home (instead of throwing them all in the baler trying to make a few extra bucks), like they do at Aldi and the club stores. I find it much better...load up a banana box with all my groceries instead of balancing '10' overflowing, ripping, spilling plastic bags all over my trunk.
 
2013-03-02 11:49:48 PM  

VTGremlin: Happy Hours: WorldCitizen: Plastic bags make great cat litter bags. I'm not sure what I would use to replace them. Buying thicker, bathroom sized trash bags?

How?

do you have a very small litter box?

The grocery-sized shopping backs wouldn't even come close to fitting my cat's litter box.

You scoop the poop into a plastic bag than throw it away. You don't use them to line the cat box. At least in my experience.


Okay. I suppose it depends on the quality of the bag. Target bags would work for that, but I usually grocery shop where it seems 90% of the bags have small holes in the bottom so that would be a disaster to use those in that way.
 
2013-03-02 11:55:57 PM  

Dreyelle: Happy Hours: WorldCitizen: Plastic bags make great cat litter bags. I'm not sure what I would use to replace them. Buying thicker, bathroom sized trash bags?

How?

do you have a very small litter box?

The grocery-sized shopping backs wouldn't even come close to fitting my cat's litter box.

Wait, do you through out the entire cat box each time?  If you scoop it, you need a plastic bag.


Uh, no - I use a scoop which catches the poop and lets the litter fall back through. Dump the poop into the toilet and flush.

I used to put the poop into a bag and throw it out, but then I got smart and decided if the toilet is good enough for my shiat, it's good enough for cat shiat.

Putting the litter box near a toilet helps. Where else would you put it? I hope not in the kitchen.
 
2013-03-03 12:00:47 AM  

Dinjiin: lewismarktwo: Why can't they, you know, make cheap biodegradable bags? Is that impossible? I don't think it is.

Plastic bags cost about 1.2¢ per unit.  Paper bags cost about 3.5¢ per unit, and are biodegradable.  Seems fairly cheap to me.

There are plastic bags that degrade in UV light, but I recall reading that they break up into little pieces that are easily consumed by wildlife.  And supposedly replacing wood derived fibers with hemp fibers could reduce the price of paper bags slightly, but that assumes a mature hemp farming infrastructure which we won't have anytime soon (the timber and cotton lobbies push to keep it illegal).


That's not the only source. If you wear polyester or acrylic or fleece, you're also contributing to the problem of tiny pieces of plastic.

Link
 
2013-03-03 12:11:06 AM  

WorldCitizen: Plastic bags make great cat litter bags. I'm not sure what I would use to replace them. Buying thicker, bathroom sized trash bags?


Problem solved. Link
 
2013-03-03 12:52:22 AM  
The vast majority of these reusable bags are made of plastic.  Considering the quantity of plastic that goes into making one of these bags, are we really reducing the quantity of plastic used?
 
2013-03-03 01:16:04 AM  

Happy Hours: Dreyelle: Happy Hours: WorldCitizen: Plastic bags make great cat litter bags. I'm not sure what I would use to replace them. Buying thicker, bathroom sized trash bags?

How?

do you have a very small litter box?

The grocery-sized shopping backs wouldn't even come close to fitting my cat's litter box.

Wait, do you through out the entire cat box each time?  If you scoop it, you need a plastic bag.

Uh, no - I use a scoop which catches the poop and lets the litter fall back through. Dump the poop into the toilet and flush.

I used to put the poop into a bag and throw it out, but then I got smart and decided if the toilet is good enough for my shiat, it's good enough for cat shiat.

Putting the litter box near a toilet helps. Where else would you put it? I hope not in the kitchen.


Yes, for the scooped poo and clumped litter with the pee. Not to line the litter. And mine are in the garage with a cat door going to the garage. There are all kinds of places in many houses to put them rather than just the bath or the kitchen.
 
2013-03-03 02:36:33 AM  
Let's see... we have serious problems with plastic pollution, but you guys would be slightly inconvenienced by having to either bring your own bags or use paper bags. Maybe you'll have to buy some small garbage bags for your kitty litter, too. So, reducing filth and litter or convenience, which is more important? Going by this thread I would say you guys are all for your own convenience.

This is why environmentalism is dead, why the oceans are being fished out, basically the reason for most of our environmental problems: we might be slighly inconvenienced. We might not get to eat maguro cheaply! We might have to go back to using paper bags! We might have to drive cars that are slighly less powerful!
 
2013-03-03 04:02:54 AM  

Happy Hours: Okay. I suppose it depends on the quality of the bag. Target bags would work for that, but I usually grocery shop where it seems 90% of the bags have small holes in the bottom so that would be a disaster to use those in that way.


Use two, one inside the other.  The holes are rarely in the same spot on both.
 
2013-03-03 08:27:13 AM  

BolloxReader: We go through plastic bags like crazy. I know drivers who will just take about 50 of them at a time from Walmarts after they pay for their purchases. Just empty out a rack on a carousel. Those disposable plastic bags have two handles that fit over arm rests, etc in truck cabs.

A world without plastic bags might bring interstate commerce to a grinding halt.


or you could, you know, pay for them, yourself, in the form of a box of Glad trash bags. Just a suggestion!  Plastic bags aren't going away, ever; 'free' plastic bags are.  And it sounds like y'all treat plastic bags like a resource.  The habit that charging $0.05 curtails is just throwing the bags on the street because they 'aren't worth anything.'

Trollin4Colon: Its a Austin (And from what I gather maybe portland too) thing. I may be doing what they want but alot of the people down here will go apeshiat if they see a disposable plastic bag after the ban.


that's incredibly dumb and short-sighted of them.  You're re-using? You're one of the unwashed hippie mass!  Welcome!  Have some patchouli and vegan bean sprout bake!

davidphogan: Beyond the can thing, the bag ban has done nothing except waste my time and cost me more a bit of extra money


I realize you're getting dog-piled in this thread (It's the Fark way!) but this always needs to be taken into account when establishing public policy.  The more difficult you make it to comply with something, yet with little to no consequence for non-compliance... the more chance that people go the path of least resistance.   My next door neighbor is the same way.   He didn't care to recycle.  But every now and then I see his blue bin out.  I can only assume it's social guilt.  Carboard is a different beast; big enough boxes are a PITA to throw out and much easier to make flat.


/we has a $0.05 bag tax in MoCo, MD.
 
2013-03-03 10:28:21 AM  
There's no free lunch, hippies.
 
2013-03-03 10:42:17 AM  

Trollin4Colon: JMacPA: Trollin4Colon: Spaced Lion: ZAZ:

Yep, just went in to effect yesterday. We have a entire cabinet full of disposable plastic bags left over from previous shopping trips. Were gonna just use those to have some fun pissing off local hipsters/hippies for a while.

I'm confused, you're going to piss them off by doing what they want?

Its a Austin (And from what I gather maybe portland too) thing. I may be doing what they want but alot of the people down here will go apeshiat if they see a disposable plastic bag after the ban.



That still doesn't make any sense.  They'll know you didn't get them from the store - because there's a ban - so they'll know you're reusing them and that's pretty much all they want.

I mean, I know you want them to have their little aneurisms, which is nice for you I guess, but honestly nobody's going to give a shiat.
 
2013-03-03 11:03:36 AM  

JMacPA: Trollin4Colon: JMacPA: Trollin4Colon: Spaced Lion: ZAZ:

Yep, just went in to effect yesterday. We have a entire cabinet full of disposable plastic bags left over from previous shopping trips. Were gonna just use those to have some fun pissing off local hipsters/hippies for a while.

I'm confused, you're going to piss them off by doing what they want?

Its a Austin (And from what I gather maybe portland too) thing. I may be doing what they want but alot of the people down here will go apeshiat if they see a disposable plastic bag after the ban.


That still doesn't make any sense.  They'll know you didn't get them from the store - because there's a ban - so they'll know you're reusing them and that's pretty much all they want.

I mean, I know you want them to have their little aneurisms, which is nice for you I guess, but honestly nobody's going to give a shiat.


Oh my friend, how little you know about the nosey,condescending, masses down here.
 
2013-03-03 07:36:48 PM  
Shopping bags are recyclable where I live.  Why don't people just recycle the #2 and #4 bags?
 
2013-03-04 08:01:10 AM  

Happy Hours: WorldCitizen: Plastic bags make great cat litter bags. I'm not sure what I would use to replace them. Buying thicker, bathroom sized trash bags?

How?

do you have a very small litter box?

The grocery-sized shopping backs wouldn't even come close to fitting my cat's litter box.


I use those plastic bags for the exact same thing, Not for the entire contents, just scooping out as regular maintenance.

/Lives in S. Seattle and glad I'm still close to a store that doesn't have a bag ban imposed on it.
 
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