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(Southern CA Public Radio)   Turns out it's illegal for school districts to ask parents to buy school supplies   (scpr.org) divider line 87
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10892 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2013 at 3:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-02 09:28:08 AM

MyRandomName: Fizpez: great_tigers: Deathfrogg: great_tigers: Conflicted,

On one hand I think that we need to stop enabling everyone in the USA. Are the schools supposed to supply the students with back packs and band instruments too?

Yet, I think that a small portion of a teachers salary is given with the expectation of spending some of it on school supplies for kids. Most employed people do sacrifice some of their wages to go to the opportunity to work. Manufacturing requires steel toed boots a lot of the time, dress shirts are required at more office centered jobs and need to be dry cleaned.

If a teacher needs to spend 100 dollars on some school supplies, I think their salary for working 9 months, impeccable insurance  and tenure will come with some of the territory.

Lol wut?

Pretty simple, parents need to take care of some things, teachers should also take care of some things. It isn't an all or nothing situation. It is a compromise.

Good thing teachers get to come to work naked on their magic flying unicorn and don't already have expenses tied to the job like maintaining a license, continuing education, supplies consumed at home that are 100% part of the job, etc.

And just to be clear - apparently its a crushing burden to ask the parents to buy the list of consumables the student will use up during the year, but it's perfectly OK to ask the teacher to buy that same list of material for all thirty+ students in their room, which apparently should cost "around a 100 dollars" for the whole class...... yeah, right.

Amazing how teachers think they are the only professions with continuing education.


Uh, no one thinks that - it was in response to the idiotic statement that teachers are paid a certain amount of money with the understanding that they should buy all the stuff their professional environment (the classroom) needs to function as well as supply their students with everything they could possibly need to make it through the year.

These threads always devolve into two camps. neither of which is supported by reality:

Camp A - Places all teachers as amazing people, with God like abilities.  They slave 23.89 hours per day 365 days per year for scraps of bread crust, which they promptly offer to their students in case they didnt get enough to eat.  When faced with a student without a pen they promptly open a vein so the student can use their own blood to write their homework.  They have never known a moment of peace and tranquility on the job as they are constantly saving drowning kittens while not actively turning every gang-banger into a Harvard law professor.  The administration actually stops by five to ten times a day to whip them with a scourge - fortunately they are able to teach right through this process while offering up their suffering to their students as a life lesson in humility while explaining the historic origins of the weapon being used to whip them.

Camp B - Thinks all teachers are morons who only because teachers because there weren't any jobs open at McDonald's, and they didn't want to have to work in the summer anyway.  They think teachers make roughly what a professional baseball player makes in the prime of his career and they spend about 15 minutes working each day and have a straight 254 days off in the summer time.  Because they had a bad teacher in 7th grade they're pretty sure all of these people are worth a combined value of 34 cents a year and should be paid accordingly.  This camp believes they would have 25.6 times more money in their paycheck if the money wasn't being funneled directly to the teacher's pension/hookers and blow fund.
 
2013-03-02 09:29:07 AM
I'm a teacher. I don't plan any activities that require materials that aren't provided by the district. It turns out, you can teach the material just fine without much to go on if you don't care about making super happy fun times memories and having the kids love you forever and ever. Then again, I'm a dude and became a teacher to, you know, teach, not play with glitter all day.
 
2013-03-02 09:35:13 AM

MyRandomName: CipollinaFan: So now schools have to provide their students with supplies. It is a good thing that education funding is not being cut due to a stupid compromise about the debt ceiling.

School funding has grown way faster than inflation. Problem is the majority of new funds go to administration. How about fixing the top heavy system before shoveling more money to it. The U.S. spends more per student than virtually every other country.


Maine did that a few years ago. A study found that the state had way to many school districts.  In some places you had towns that had their own school district with only 100 or so kids.  The state order that the state education department redo them so that each school district had at least 1000 students in each one.  While this didn't effect the major towns/cities of the state it did effect bout 3/4 of the school districts.  Most smaller towns only had schools that went form k-5  or maybe k-8 and sent the older kids to a near by city for the higher grades.  These smaller towns just joined with the bigger town to form a newer school district.  But there was some really ticked off towns in some parts that didn't like the idea of losing the control of their schools as if the joined with other towns then the school board would be made up of people form all the towns and they didn't like that idea.  Think in the end it cut the total number of school districts form like over 200 to something like 60ish.  Which saved the schools/towns/state a lot of money on admin cost that was then used on other school stuff that needed it.
 
2013-03-02 09:49:57 AM
Our children's teachers send home an extensive list of 'needs' ranging from pencils to tissues that the school can't afford, but the district could still afford to buy the Superintendent a brand new Chevy Yukon this year.

www.rickbeckman.org

/well you can, but the districts won't like the answers
 
2013-03-02 10:00:54 AM

crabsno termites: CSB:  ca. 1954, school sent home a "supply list" (3d grade).  My mommy says "Kiss my ass" (not true, my mommy wouldn't say "shiat" if she had a mouthful).  Never heard another word about it.

/My mommy iss the original clas act, not because my mommy, because of what she is.
//She's 90, I'm 67.
///Unlike her, I've been known to say "shiat!" frequently.  Wish I had got the better parts of her.


dafuq
 
2013-03-02 10:04:43 AM
I'd rather buy the supplies directly than have to buy the fundraising crap constantly. I think most parents would, too.
 
2013-03-02 10:08:48 AM
But I though school systems were above the law. Just ask any administrator.
 
2013-03-02 10:10:28 AM

CipollinaFan: So now schools have to provide their students with supplies. It is a good thing that education funding is not being cut due to a stupid compromise about the debt ceiling.


We need to cut damn near all of it and allow the states to fund their own programs.

Elementary schools, for example, are a complete waste of ca$h today. Why are we still funding brick and mortar facilities, staff, books, and transportation when there isn't a g'damn thing kids at that level can't learn via the "innernets"? There's NO good reason, and today, elementary schools are little more than day care centers.

I can see funding labs for sciences and tech courses, but there is no reason to continue wasting time and resources on brick and mortar facilities when kids can learn almost everything they need from home through the net.
 
2013-03-02 10:14:06 AM
I think a big part of the issue here is that education became a business with people reaching for the top and more money. wage caps tracking inflation, and consolidation of administration/back end staffing as done in maine would solve this. also oversight. my highschool got repainted every year i was there. what a way to blow 10s of thousands.

having said that, I can assure you with my public k-12 experience that a large chunk of students in public schools are complete assholes, and will readily shiat on anything they didnt pony up the money for. so it makes sense to me to force the families to buy consumables.

also, quit wasting everyones time and money on phys ed, sports, music/choir, and art. and rotc. and film analysis. and other bs that is not knowledge people need to understand the world. these all boil down to being hobbies for 99.9999% of people that even bother to do them again outside of public school.
 
2013-03-02 10:19:06 AM
Fizpez:

You like camp rivalry, huh?

The parents that don't want to pay for any extra supplies don't expect it come out of the teachers pay.  That would be stupid.  They want the schools to figure those supply needs into their budget, but however sometimes there is budget wasting that could go to supplementing the needs of the students' education.

My parents never questioned the supply list when I grew up.  They actually love of the idea that teachers have started having supply list displayed at retailers so parents can get ahold of them easier.  Yet my mom quit doing school fund raisers because the last one she did was suppose to help build  a playground.  About $100 was spent on a toy, the rest went to carpet the teachers' lounge and a new microwave.  Later at another school, she took random cloth and other stuff for the art teacher to use after the teacher had asked for stuff.  My mom caught the art teacher tossing the stuff in the dumpster.  Some teachers forget that they are teaching in a public school and the kid who doesn't come up with a specific binder and TI-85 calculator, comes from a welfare family.  What some people don't realize about welfare families, the system is set up so if the kid gets a part-time job to pay for school supplies, they lose welfare and their budget is the same.  If you can't afford that stuff before, you won't with only a few dollars from a McDonalds job.  Sadly, the system itself does inherently create laziness, for it does take a bit of a jump to get from welfare to making enough to warrant all the work.  It takes education, which .....  Well, you can tell the loop I was about to take.

It isn't easy to tell if you are dealing with the school staff that are just crazy, or the staff that really need the parents to pitch in.  If the school's budget cannot meet the needs that the teacher declares necessary, then do a fund raiser that will only be spent on that need.  That way all the kids will have a hand in earning their education, without taxing the parents anymore than they can handle.  Is either camp right, no neither is truly right.  In the middle a truce can be found.
 
2013-03-02 10:22:55 AM
I teach in a district where the parents are overly litigious, and we've been through this a number of times. We just publish "Wish Lists" periodically throughout the year. My list always includes "gift cards from Target/Office Depot/Michael's crafts" so that I can get some of the cool stuff that the school doesn't think is necessary.

If there's anything that EVERY kid actually NEEDS, that comes from the school.

At this point in the year, my wish list is down to "kleenex, paper towels, kleenex, and some more kleenex" (note, I do not own stock in Kleenex) --- and even so, I always put in the caveat that if they don't want to send a whole box, at least send a pocket-pack with your own kids if they're going to have snot running out of their face.

/Fiskars produce a high-quality product that rarely ceases to function or even maintain structural integrity at some random point in the year.
//Our school board just kicked the budget back to the administration with the question, "Why are we cutting more than 150 teachers and staff when you just gave yourselves raises and you all have $3600/yr car allowances, yet you make more than twice the salary of anyone on the chopping block?"
 
2013-03-02 10:58:55 AM
meh, I have two kids.  I have no issue buying and sending in class snacks, craft supplies for projects, hand sanitizer, kleenex, etc on top of the normal crayons/pencils/paper.  It costs me maybe $30/kid/year.  There are classes that have said, "If you want your student to have a workbook they can take home for this class, it's $xx, otherwise they will have access only while in class or by coming in for study time before school"  I bought the workbook.

I'd rather allow my kids have the best experience they can while in school than let them "suffer" to prove a point.
 
2013-03-02 11:02:41 AM

Fizpez: MyRandomName: Fizpez: great_tigers: Deathfrogg: great_tigers: Conflicted,

On one hand I think that we need to stop enabling everyone in the USA. Are the schools supposed to supply the students with back packs and band instruments too?

Yet, I think that a small portion of a teachers salary is given with the expectation of spending some of it on school supplies for kids. Most employed people do sacrifice some of their wages to go to the opportunity to work. Manufacturing requires steel toed boots a lot of the time, dress shirts are required at more office centered jobs and need to be dry cleaned.

If a teacher needs to spend 100 dollars on some school supplies, I think their salary for working 9 months, impeccable insurance  and tenure will come with some of the territory.

Lol wut?

Pretty simple, parents need to take care of some things, teachers should also take care of some things. It isn't an all or nothing situation. It is a compromise.

Good thing teachers get to come to work naked on their magic flying unicorn and don't already have expenses tied to the job like maintaining a license, continuing education, supplies consumed at home that are 100% part of the job, etc.

And just to be clear - apparently its a crushing burden to ask the parents to buy the list of consumables the student will use up during the year, but it's perfectly OK to ask the teacher to buy that same list of material for all thirty+ students in their room, which apparently should cost "around a 100 dollars" for the whole class...... yeah, right.

Amazing how teachers think they are the only professions with continuing education.

Uh, no one thinks that - it was in response to the idiotic statement that teachers are paid a certain amount of money with the understanding that they should buy all the stuff their professional environment (the classroom) needs to function as well as supply their students with everything they could possibly need to make it through the year.

These threads always devolve into two camps. neither of which is supported by reality:

Camp A - Places all teachers as amazing people, with God like abilities.  They slave 23.89 hours per day 365 days per year for scraps of bread crust, which they promptly offer to their students in case they didnt get enough to eat.  When faced with a student without a pen they promptly open a vein so the student can use their own blood to write their homework.  They have never known a moment of peace and tranquility on the job as they are constantly saving drowning kittens while not actively turning every gang-banger into a Harvard law professor.  The administration actually stops by five to ten times a day to whip them with a scourge - fortunately they are able to teach right through this process while offering up their suffering to their students as a life lesson in humility while explaining the historic origins of the weapon being used to whip them.

Camp B - Thinks all teachers are morons who only because teachers because there weren't any jobs open at McDonald's, and they didn't want to have to work in the summer anyway.  They think teachers make roughly what a professional baseball player makes in the prime of his career and they spend about 15 minutes working each day and have a straight 254 days off in the summer time.  Because they had a bad teacher in 7th grade they're pretty sure all of these people are worth a combined value of 34 cents a year and should be paid accordingly.  This camp believes they would have 25.6 times more money in their paycheck if the money wasn't being funneled directly to the teacher's pension/hookers and blow fund.


And favorited.
 
2013-03-02 11:03:27 AM
we get a supply list every year for the kiddos.  i have no problem with the usual stuff pens, pencils, paper, stuff the kids will need, but lately the schools started asking for extra stuff to go into a "community" type school supply store.  in addition to extra writing supplies they even requested we go out and buy copy paper for the xerox machines.  I know schools are strapped for cash but some parents are still trying to recover financially after buying supplies and clothes for their kids let alone extra stuff for the other kids in the class as well as stuff for the teachers.
 
2013-03-02 11:22:33 AM

Alphakronik: Turns out, biatching about having to buy your kid basic school supplies makes you a shiatty parent.


This.
 
2013-03-02 11:25:39 AM
How much can I bet that the same people complaining that they have to fund their children's education (outside of the taxes they pay) are the same types of people who always vote down a school levi?
 
2013-03-02 11:33:46 AM

EViLTeW: meh, I have two kids.  I have no issue buying and sending in class snacks, craft supplies for projects, hand sanitizer, kleenex, etc on top of the normal crayons/pencils/paper.  It costs me maybe $30/kid/year.  There are classes that have said, "If you want your student to have a workbook they can take home for this class, it's $xx, otherwise they will have access only while in class or by coming in for study time before school"  I bought the workbook.

I'd rather allow my kids have the best experience they can while in school than let them "suffer" to prove a point.


Your kids must still be young.  Wait till they reach HS and that amount will really start to climb.  I didn't even do the extra stuff(sports and the like) and I had to get a job to pay for most of it.  My senior year cost me a few hundred dollars.  One class required a TI-85, and no we could not get a TI-82 or 83, nor was Casio was acceptable.  My sister's HS career was much more costly, since she played on the basketball team, my parents had to buy her shoes which was picked by the coach.  They had to get the same design Reebok pump shoe, then the rest of the list was shown to them.  Also, don't forget that you have to drive to all the games and pay admission or you're a bad parent for not watching her games.  I am not saying going to games shouldn't happen, but that mess adds up.

Having my kids in the public k12 program does mean, I don't have too much issue with some of that.  They do supply a lot of stuff, like the computer, printer and a lot of stuff I didn't expect.  We do return the stuff (shipping is covered) back to the school.  We do pay for printer ink and paper, but we do get a reimbursement check for part of the internet service.  We have to feed the kids, of course, but we don't have the transportation and clothing cost that most parents have (no uniforms).  Over all the k12 program is cheaper than sending the kids to school, seems silly to me but it's true.
 
2013-03-02 11:34:38 AM

ReverendJasen: The page-long list of demanded supplies our kids bring home each year is starting to get ridiculous.  Some of the teachers even specify what brand of item they'll accept.  The one made sure to bold and italicize that the our 1st grader's scissors be "Fiskars" and only "Fiskars."  I think she owned Fiskar stock, personally.


Or she wanted everyone to have the same stuff so there was no incentive to swipe your classmates better scissors.

great_tigers: Conflicted,

On one hand I think that we need to stop enabling everyone in the USA. Are the schools supposed to supply the students with back packs and band instruments too?

Yet, I think that a small portion of a teachers salary is given with the expectation of spending some of it on school supplies for kids. Most employed people do sacrifice some of their wages to go to the opportunity to work. Manufacturing requires steel toed boots a lot of the time, dress shirts are required at more office centered jobs and need to be dry cleaned.

If a teacher needs to spend 100 dollars on some school supplies, I think their salary for working 9 months, impeccable insurance  and tenure will come with some of the territory.


In general you only supply your own attire.  There are a few cases where you are expected to supply more but in those cases your pay will be higher to make up for it.  (For example, my former employer required installers to provide their own tools, screws, putty and the like--it was amazing how much cheaper it was to pay them a bit extra to cover the costs than to provide the material.  Their tools almost never got stolen, they used a small fraction of their own supplies that they used of ours.)

Nem Wan: People who think they don't benefit personally from being taxed to pay for other people's education are apparently wishing they were surrounded by even more ignorant fools.


There's also the issue of what's being done with the money.  Bond issues are frequently on the ballot here and in the last 20 years I have voted for only two of them.  The reason is they are always cheating.  A basic rule of debt--never borrow to get something that won't outlast the debt.  (Note--sometimes this is indirect.  For example, education--the schooling doesn't outlast the debt but the benefits do.)  When I find bad debt in a bond issue--and I almost always do--that's it, reject.

MyRandomName: School funding has grown way faster than inflation. Problem is the majority of new funds go to administration. How about fixing the top heavy system before shoveling more money to it. The U.S. spends more per student than virtually every other country.


Special ed is also a problem.  We spend huge amounts on educating students that will never be anything but welfare cases anyway.  Several years ago a teacher told me special ed was half the total education budget.

Hagenhatesyouall: Elementary schools, for example, are a complete waste of ca$h today. Why are we still funding brick and mortar facilities, staff, books, and transportation when there isn't a g'damn thing kids at that level can't learn via the "innernets"? There's NO good reason, and today, elementary schools are little more than day care centers.

I can see funding labs for sciences and tech courses, but there is no reason to continue wasting time and resources on brick and mortar facilities when kids can learn almost everything they need from home through the net.


1)  I don't think the internet suffices until kids have learned to read/write/type.

2)  Leaving younger kids home alone all day isn't going to work.

However, I do partially agree with you.  Most learning can come from the computer.  You need a human teacher to teach the kids enough to work with the computer.  Some things will also require a human to grade.  Beyond that, though, the only use for teachers should be to design/update the educational materials.  This does *NOT* mean you would suddenly have a bunch of unemployed teachers, though--their job would just change.  The primary education would come from the computer, the "teacher" would be there to help those who got stuck.

As it stands a teacher presents something one way and then tried alternate approaches when someone doesn't get it.  With the computer that would mostly be done in advance--you might have a dozen different presentations of the same material in different styles, all are accessible and each kid could choose what he found the easiest to understand.  As teachers found cases where the students still didn't get it despite going through what was offered they would provide feedback to get the material updated for the future.

This could also become the biggest foreign aid project around at virtually zero cost.  All the material is put on-line, distributed by a built-in bittorrent client.  It exists already, there's no production cost.  The government has to maintain the tracker and provide a decent amount of seeding bandwidth, that's it.  Imagine what that would do for education in the third world.

Dr. Goldshnoz: having said that, I can assure you with my public k-12 experience that a large chunk of students in public schools are complete assholes, and will readily shiat on anything they didnt pony up the money for. so it makes sense to me to force the families to buy consumables.


Consumables and personal non-consumables.  Things like the scissors.  Anything being supplied for the classroom is going too far.

Dr. Goldshnoz: also, quit wasting everyones time and money on phys ed, sports, music/choir, and art. and rotc. and film analysis. and other bs that is not knowledge people need to understand the world. these all boil down to being hobbies for 99.9999% of people that even bother to do them again outside of public school.


I disagree on PE.  It should be there but the coaches need to handle it differently.  The objective should be physical activity more than competition.  Any sort of elimination event is wrong.
 
2013-03-02 12:02:00 PM

Loren: I disagree on PE. It should be there but the coaches need to handle it differently. The objective should be physical activity more than competition. Any sort of elimination event is wrong.


fair enough, but like you said, handled differently. make it more of a nutritional education, fitness, daily workout/exercise routine type of thing that the people who are motivated/afford it go to the gym for. rotating a week or 2 of various sports for a year and forcing a weekly graded mile run on people is a time waster. If you want your kid to be a square dancing or badminton prodigy, you start them young at home, and graduate them to a club or league or trainer; not in public school on my dime, where afterwords they will never pick up a racquet again.
 
2013-03-02 12:26:11 PM

lack of warmth: EViLTeW: meh, I have two kids.  I have no issue buying and sending in class snacks, craft supplies for projects, hand sanitizer, kleenex, etc on top of the normal crayons/pencils/paper.  It costs me maybe $30/kid/year.  There are classes that have said, "If you want your student to have a workbook they can take home for this class, it's $xx, otherwise they will have access only while in class or by coming in for study time before school"  I bought the workbook.

I'd rather allow my kids have the best experience they can while in school than let them "suffer" to prove a point.

Your kids must still be young.  Wait till they reach HS and that amount will really start to climb.  I didn't even do the extra stuff(sports and the like) and I had to get a job to pay for most of it.  My senior year cost me a few hundred dollars.  One class required a TI-85, and no we could not get a TI-82 or 83, nor was Casio was acceptable.  My sister's HS career was much more costly, since she played on the basketball team, my parents had to buy her shoes which was picked by the coach.  They had to get the same design Reebok pump shoe, then the rest of the list was shown to them.  Also, don't forget that you have to drive to all the games and pay admission or you're a bad parent for not watching her games.  I am not saying going to games shouldn't happen, but that mess adds up.

Having my kids in the public k12 program does mean, I don't have too much issue with some of that.  They do supply a lot of stuff, like the computer, printer and a lot of stuff I didn't expect.  We do return the stuff (shipping is covered) back to the school.  We do pay for printer ink and paper, but we do get a reimbursement check for part of the internet service.  We have to feed the kids, of course, but we don't have the transportation and clothing cost that most parents have (no uniforms).  Over all the k12 program is cheaper than sending the kids to school, seems silly to me but it's true.


Let's try this again.  Last attempt got an error so I'll be much briefer this time.
I wasn't including extra curricular activities, since that's not what TFA is about, but my children at in 1st and 7th grades and I easily spend >$300/year on those activites.  The school-sponsored activities have a pay-to-play fee per year, and I have no problem with that, either.
 
2013-03-02 12:55:10 PM
My daughter went to a small private elementary school from 2nd - 7th grades.  The max size of any of her classes was maybe 13 students.  She learned a lot and the education was great.  The stupid thing was that at the first of the year they would send home the list  of supplies, of which a big deal was rolls of TP and paper towels, hand sanitizer, copy paper etc.  The first day of school was a zoo with every parent bringing in a van load of supplies.  Which the school then had to store until they were used later on in the year.

I could never figure out why they didn't just add a few extra bucks onto tuition or throw another fee on there so all they had to store was cash, until it was time to make another Sam's run for a case of paper etc.
 
2013-03-02 01:12:56 PM

LadyBelgara: great_tigers: Conflicted,

On one hand I think that we need to stop enabling everyone in the USA. Are the schools supposed to supply the students with back packs and band instruments too?

Yet, I think that a small portion of a teachers salary is given with the expectation of spending some of it on school supplies for kids. Most employed people do sacrifice some of their wages to go to the opportunity to work. Manufacturing requires steel toed boots a lot of the time, dress shirts are required at more office centered jobs and need to be dry cleaned.

If a teacher needs to spend 100 dollars on some school supplies, I think their salary for working 9 months, impeccable insurance  and tenure will come with some of the territory.

My mother is now taking home less money than she did in the 70s, has no tenure because the state has nuked it for everyone, and sees half of her paycheck go to that "impeccable" insurance.  She takes home 800 dollars every two weeks right now for working her ass off from when she gets to school at 6am, then takes more work home with her and works until around 6pm.  And you want her to spend even more of her own money on basic supplies that should be provided?

Fark.  You.


Stop making stuff up.

I was saying that it needs to be a compromise. It is acceptable for both parties to give in some.
 
2013-03-02 01:15:31 PM
Teachers have to be the group of workers that complain the most about their profession.
 
2013-03-02 01:26:15 PM
I tried to donate about a half-dozen almost new computers to my daughters' school a few years ago.  They said they couldn't accept them unless they were new and still in the unopened boxes.  I guess the fear was that they may have something malicious on them, but I would think that the district's IT department would have someone capable of burning them to the ground and reloading them.  It was mildly frustrating that the computer lab desperately needed computers, but couldn't be bothered to deal with the ones I was offering them for free.
 
2013-03-02 01:53:20 PM

great_tigers: Teachers have to be the group of workers that complain the most about their profession.


Become one and you'll understand...
 
2013-03-02 02:39:18 PM
Can't the schools get better bulk prices than parents get individually?

What kind of ignorant waste is it to push for individual purchases? The funding came from the parents, anyway. Also from me, even though I have no kids. And as long as I'm pitching in, I want efficiency and cost control.
 
2013-03-02 03:11:36 PM

goatleggedfellow: Can't the schools get better bulk prices than parents get individually?

What kind of ignorant waste is it to push for individual purchases? The funding came from the parents, anyway. Also from me, even though I have no kids. And as long as I'm pitching in, I want efficiency and cost control.


To the original posters point about avoiding Walmart and target, why would you? A ton of their crap is already 1¢ during back to school. Aside from free it can't get cheaper.
 
2013-03-02 03:22:53 PM

great_tigers: Teachers have to be the group of workers that complain the most about their profession.


Not many other professions come with a constant stream of media, community, and political idiots who haven't set foot in a classroom since they repeated 2nd grade trying to tell them how to do their jobs.
 
2013-03-02 04:23:22 PM

Lleowyr: great_tigers: Teachers have to be the group of workers that complain the most about their profession.

Not many other professions come with a constant stream of media, community, and political idiots who haven't set foot in a classroom since they repeated 2nd grade trying to tell them how to do their jobs.


We scientists can sympathize...
 
2013-03-02 04:32:47 PM
weasil:We just publish "Wish Lists" periodically throughout the year. My list always includes "gift cards from Target/Office Depot/Michael's crafts" so that I can get some of the cool stuff that the school doesn't think is necessary.


Until our daughter entered kindergarten this year in California, we'd never heard of schools providing the school supplies.  When we were growing up (in other states), our parents bought our notebooks, paper, pencils, crayons, etc., at the beginning of the school year.  So, we saved some out-of-pocket expense on that front...

However...

We're more than halfway into the school year and we've donated many hundreds of dollars in cash and miscellany to our daughter's school, including a $200 Staples gift card for our daughter's teacher.  Every week, there's another fundraiser, or an updated "wish list" posted on the bulletin board.  By the end of the year, we will have paid over $1,000 for our daughter to attend public school.
 
2013-03-02 06:23:53 PM
I have no problems buying my kids the basics, pens, paper, notebooks etc. but buying school books seems a little over the top.

What bugs me is when my kids were in school, every day they would come home with a stack of worksheets they had completed that day. Everything from math problems to spelling and grammar stuff. Most of these worksheets were either photocopies or printed out from a PC, there would be on average 8-10 each day.

Whatever happened to the teacher putting problems on the blackboard and the kids writing them down in a notebook? Schools are always complaining about lack of funds but how much money does it cost in paper and ink to print these things out daily?
 
2013-03-02 06:34:44 PM

ReapTheChaos: I have no problems buying my kids the basics, pens, paper, notebooks etc. but buying school books seems a little over the top.

What bugs me is when my kids were in school, every day they would come home with a stack of worksheets they had completed that day. Everything from math problems to spelling and grammar stuff. Most of these worksheets were either photocopies or printed out from a PC, there would be on average 8-10 each day.

Whatever happened to the teacher putting problems on the blackboard and the kids writing them down in a notebook? Schools are always complaining about lack of funds but how much money does it cost in paper and ink to print these things out daily?


It costs quite a bit actually.  My school has had monthly limits of copies for teachers for at least the past 5 years.  You actually have to log into the copiers with the last 4 digits of your SSN and it tracks you, cutting you off when you hit your limit.

The reason your kids get so many worksheets per day though is most likely because our schools are pushing more and more crap onto kids plates than ever before ("No time to write stuff from the board, little Susie...we've got to rush to get to the next chapter before the principal comes in, or I'm gonna lose my job!").  Back when I was in school (80's & 90's) things were much less stressful both on teachers & students.  The stuff kids are expected to learn even in 1st grade is pretty over-the-top.  Child development experts should be all over the education reform movement telling them to back the fark up and chill for a minute...let kids be kids.
 
2013-03-02 06:52:47 PM
We paid for everything growing up in Hawaii, then Cali, then Oregon. Are you telling me, all these years they have been spending funds in an inappropriate manner while foisting the costs to the parents after they already paid in taxes?

I'm SHOCKED!.

A lot of cost in education could be taken care of if we stopped supporting publishers who seem to think everyone has to have a new book because they change the page numbers or have to change a credit. Also, getting rid of the asshats getting kickbacks from supporting the publishers and their shenanigans would be a help.

Stop buying 100 dollar books every year (100 really? for basic educational materials we can find on the net for free?) and maybe you can afford the extra copy paper for all the crap handouts and a few farking pencils.

/glad I'm out of the system
 
2013-03-02 11:31:32 PM
What used to piss me off was getting several different "required supplies" lists from teachers spread out over the first  two weeks of school.  Multiple shopping trips should not be necessary.

Then there was the day my second-grader came how scared because he was going to fail his class if we didn't buy supplies for the poor kids.  I read the bulletin: "Students are expected to bring extra supplies for children who cannot afford them."  I sent an email to the teacher:

"Fly a sign reading, 'Passersby are expected to give me a quarter' and let me know how you do."
 
2013-03-03 04:26:41 AM
I have no problem getting supplies for my kids' classes. The teachers give us a wish list at the start of the year and we bring in what we can. When the back to school sales end, lots of stores have huge clearance bins of pencils and glue sticks for 10 cents and I raid those.

What makes me crazy is our room mom. She asks for monetary donations for every damn holiday you can think of. If you don't hand over the money in a timely fashion, she emails the entire class a list of who HAS paid.

I knew she was going to be horrid when she gave me a business card on the first day of school. She doesn't work. It listed her job as "Kyarra's Mommy!" Barf.
 
2013-03-04 11:48:31 AM

great_tigers: Conflicted,

On one hand I think that we need to stop enabling everyone in the USA. Are the schools supposed to supply the students with back packs and band instruments too?

Yet, I think that a small portion of a teachers salary is given with the expectation of spending some of it on school supplies for kids. Most employed people do sacrifice some of their wages to go to the opportunity to work. Manufacturing requires steel toed boots a lot of the time, dress shirts are required at more office centered jobs and need to be dry cleaned.

If a teacher needs to spend 100 dollars on some school supplies, I think their salary for working 9 months, impeccable insurance  and tenure will come with some of the territory.


Your right most jobs have basic costs built in, except I get a yearly budget to spend for safety equipment and additional pay for working in areas that cause more then the usual wear on my clothes.  My wife, when she was teaching, could sink a $100 into her class every couple weeks just for basic supplies like construction paper (she taught kindergarten).  I know Fark hates teachers but they don't all work in Chicago and around here $14 dollars an hour to start is normal. So asking parents to supply consumables is necessary.  Now suppling the actual books etc is going too far and that school district really should re-examine their priorities.
 
2013-03-05 02:45:40 PM

goatleggedfellow: Can't the schools get better bulk prices than parents get individually?

What kind of ignorant waste is it to push for individual purchases? The funding came from the parents, anyway. Also from me, even though I have no kids. And as long as I'm pitching in, I want efficiency and cost control.


Yep, almost certainly, but asking for money directly (other than to pay for specific extra-curricular expenses like say parties, field trips, cetra) is a big no-no just about everywhere.  People that are ok with buying pencils, scissors, and glue are often NOT ok with just handing money to someone else to spend.  It's less cost-effective this way, but at least the caregivers know exactly where the money went.  Once again some justice to both sides of the fence, but given a chance to either hand someone else money to buy things for their kids, or buy things themselves and know exactly what they are most will go for the latter.

People don't trust school admins much anymore, and with more than a bit of justice behind it in many cases.  NOT all cases by any means - but many.
 
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