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(The New York Times)   As it turns out, Hitler was in fact worse than Hitler   (nytimes.com) divider line 323
    More: Sick, Hitler, Holocaust, restricted areas, internment camps, Dr. Dean, labor camp, ghettos  
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26980 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2013 at 8:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-03 11:46:25 PM

Frederick: liam76: Frederick: enik: Oh hey it's only the 1,456,333,546,788,443,557th article on the Holocuast.

damn that liberal media....wait, liberal isnt quite right....

BronyMedic: KrispyKritter: there were people of governments that killed far more but Hitler gets all the press. it's always Hitler, Hitler, Hitler.

Hitler gets press for the way he did it. Yeah, Stalin and Mao were bad people, and they starved MILLIONS through their five year plans and "reforms", shot a bunch of people, and sent others to work camps, but they didn't have the industrialized and cold mechanism of death that the Nazis invented for the systematic extermination of groups of people who were deemed "undesirables", and the sheer monstrosity of the pseudo-scientific "human experiments" that their doctors performed at the camps.

Yeah....thats why.

Why don't you fill us in on why?

Or do you just want people to ask questions, like you do with the holocaust.

I think it's a good idea to ask questions of history.  Why do you wish to avoid it?


Pretty much an established fact that history is written by the winners. That, in itself, should make such inquiries legitimate.
 
2013-03-04 12:00:02 AM
(deleted: Referenced deleted comment)
Hmmmm..... nice to know that the mods are occasionally fair. The jackass threw out the "alt" accusation.
 
2013-03-04 06:52:34 AM

Frederick: liam76: Frederick: Yeah....thats why.

Why don't you fill us in on why?

Or do you just want people to ask questions, like you do with the holocaust.

I think it's a good idea to ask questions of history.  Why do you wish to avoid it?


As I guessed you won't fill us in on why you think Hitler's Indutrial methods of genocide isn't what gets him remembered.  Is that because if you spell out why you think he is it will make your bigotry to clear?

It is a good idea to ask questions if you are ignorant, think something is wrong, or there is something you don't understand.  If you are trying to deny basic accepted facts of the holocaust with no evidence to back you up, as you do, then no that isn't a good thing.
 
2013-03-04 08:11:09 AM

liam76: Frederick: liam76: Frederick: Yeah....thats why.

Why don't you fill us in on why?

Or do you just want people to ask questions, like you do with the holocaust.

I think it's a good idea to ask questions of history.  Why do you wish to avoid it?

As I guessed you won't fill us in on why you think Hitler's Indutrial methods of genocide isn't what gets him remembered.  Is that because if you spell out why you think he is it will make your bigotry to clear?

It is a good idea to ask questions if you are ignorant, think something is wrong, or there is something you don't understand.  If you are trying to deny basic accepted facts of the holocaust with no evidence to back you up, as you do, then no that isn't a good thing.


Your vendetta against me is misplaced and unhealthy.

IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.

Are you going to tell me I'm wrong, and smear me as anti Semitic?
 
2013-03-04 08:28:14 AM

Frederick: liam76: Frederick: liam76: Frederick: Yeah....thats why.

Why don't you fill us in on why?

Or do you just want people to ask questions, like you do with the holocaust.

I think it's a good idea to ask questions of history.  Why do you wish to avoid it?

As I guessed you won't fill us in on why you think Hitler's Indutrial methods of genocide isn't what gets him remembered.  Is that because if you spell out why you think he is it will make your bigotry to clear?

It is a good idea to ask questions if you are ignorant, think something is wrong, or there is something you don't understand.  If you are trying to deny basic accepted facts of the holocaust with no evidence to back you up, as you do, then no that isn't a good thing.

Your vendetta against me is misplaced and unhealthy.

IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.

Are you going to tell me I'm wrong, and smear me as anti Semitic?


Vendetta against you?  I call out anyone questions that the holocaust happened.

You ignore the uniquiness of the attempted genocide by Hitler (industrial scale, border crossing, "cutting edge" technology) and instead attribute it's fame to jews power in the media.  I don't think I need to "smear" you as anything, your words make that case for you.
 
2013-03-04 09:52:49 AM

liam76: Amos Quito: "just about any nasty event can be linked to a Jew in one way or another."

-- vygramul - 2013-03-02 08:37:21 AM

Wow dude.. just... WOW.

/Farking context
//How does it work?
///Or does it?

Yes, we know you took that out of context, yet every bit if trivia, knowledge, or pictures you post are all in the context of 'Jews r bad'.


Hey, that's not true at all! He also posts plenty of "Blacks are bad" stuff, too
 
2013-03-04 12:41:41 PM

Frederick: Your vendetta against me is misplaced and unhealthy.

IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.

Are you going to tell me I'm wrong, and smear me as anti Semitic?


Wow.

Just. Just Wow. Holocaust Apologetics.

I applaud you for having the gall to stand behind your beliefs and not hide them, no matter how vile and indefensible they are. At least you have principles at being willing to admit to something that heinous.
 
2013-03-04 12:43:40 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: liam76: Amos Quito: "just about any nasty event can be linked to a Jew in one way or another."

-- vygramul - 2013-03-02 08:37:21 AM

Wow dude.. just... WOW.

/Farking context
//How does it work?
///Or does it?

Yes, we know you took that out of context, yet every bit if trivia, knowledge, or pictures you post are all in the context of 'Jews r bad'.

Hey, that's not true at all! He also posts plenty of "Blacks are bad" stuff, too


Careful, he may try and get that post deleted.


hardinparamedic: Frederick: Your vendetta against me is misplaced and unhealthy.

IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.

Are you going to tell me I'm wrong, and smear me as anti Semitic?

Wow.

Just. Just Wow. Holocaust Apologetics.

I applaud you for having the gall to stand behind your beliefs and not hide them, no matter how vile and indefensible they are. At least you have principles at being willing to admit to something that heinous.


He wouldn't have come out and said it unless challenged.
 
2013-03-04 06:29:31 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: liam76: Amos Quito: "just about any nasty event can be linked to a Jew in one way or another."

-- vygramul - 2013-03-02 08:37:21 AM

Wow dude.. just... WOW.

/Farking context
//How does it work?
///Or does it?

Yes, we know you took that out of context, yet every bit if trivia, knowledge, or pictures you post are all in the context of 'Jews r bad'.

Hey, that's not true at all! He also posts plenty of "Blacks are bad" stuff, too


He's quite the prize, isn't he?
 
2013-03-04 06:49:10 PM

vygramul: He's quite the prize, isn't he?


No, he's not true and proud about it. Turns tail and runs whenever confronted. He hides behind his wording and pretends we're the "Real Racists(TM)" whenever he's called out on it.
 
2013-03-04 09:12:51 PM

hardinparamedic: Frederick: Your vendetta against me is misplaced and unhealthy.

IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.

Are you going to tell me I'm wrong, and smear me as anti Semitic?

Wow.

Just. Just Wow. Holocaust Apologetics.

I applaud you for having the gall to stand behind your beliefs and not hide them, no matter how vile and indefensible they are. At least you have principles at being willing to admit to something that heinous.


What have I said that was vile, indefensible or heinous?

Mean while you expect a free pass at slander, lies, accusations and insults.

I've not stooped to that level.
 
2013-03-04 10:07:33 PM

Frederick: What have I said that was vile, indefensible or heinous?

Mean while you expect a free pass at slander, lies, accusations and insults.

I've not stooped to that level.


No, you've just suggested that the reason Hitler is brought to light as a "bad guy", while in your imaginary world other acts of genocide get a pass is because of "Jewish Control of the Media", namely - a conspiracy theory. And not other reasons.

Own what you believe, as indefensible as it might be.

Frederick: IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.

 
2013-03-05 06:20:21 AM

hardinparamedic: Frederick: What have I said that was vile, indefensible or heinous?

Mean while you expect a free pass at slander, lies, accusations and insults.

I've not stooped to that level.

No, you've just suggested that the reason Hitler is brought to light as a "bad guy", while in your imaginary world other acts of genocide get a pass is because of "Jewish Control of the Media", namely - a conspiracy theory. And not other reasons.

Own what you believe, as indefensible as it might be.

Frederick: IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.


Do you realize how much you had to add to get the effect you want?

I didn't say the things you claim. If you stop projecting phantom meanings onto my words you might not get so offended.

Maybe you didn't read the thread and notice how many others have also mentioned the flood of articles pertaining to the Holocaust as opposed to other genocides. My explanation for it is based simply on logic. And many people agree; people like Jon Stewart, for example

You can disagree. But the fact that you feel the need to insult, slander, and accuse suggests you have an agenda to control the message by attacking the messenger.
 
2013-03-05 07:03:08 AM

Frederick: I didn't say the things you claim. If you stop projecting phantom meanings onto my words you might not get so offended.


1.bp.blogspot.com

Then please. Spell it out for us. If you're not intending to promote a conspiracy theory, then explain how "Jewish Control of the Media" means that the Holocaust and Hitler are popularized, while the acts of other dictatorships and genocide are minimized.

I'm anxious to hear more than a sentence on your beliefs. Don't be vague if you don't want to be taken that way.

Frederick: Maybe you didn't read the thread and notice how many others have also mentioned the flood of articles pertaining to the Holocaust as opposed to other genocides.


Or, it could have to do with the fact that the Holocaust is one of the most well documented atrocities in the history of humanity thanks to the Nazi's meticulous obsession with legalism and the keeping of records. We know down to how much the net worth of every person that entered the gas chambers "donated" to the war effort even, thanks to this.

There is NO shortage of research material on the Holocaust thanks to this, unlike acts such as the Holodomor and the Khimer Rouge. The reason it is so popularized and the message of it so well known is not because of some cabal promoting it over the other genocides of the 20th century, but rather because any idiot can write an academic-grade paper about it thanks to the overabundance of factual information.

Frederick: My explanation for it is based simply on logic.


See above. Simple logic - combined with historical knowledge conveyed to a 5th grader - would dictate there is a reason OTHER than "Jewish control of the media" that the holocaust is so well known and publicized so disproportionately. We have estimates from how many Stalin starved and had murdered during his reign, we have  estimates of how many intellectuals Pol Pot had murdered. We have hard documentation down to every man, woman, and child of how many Hitler killed, and the fashion they did it in.

Frederick: And many people agree; people like Jon Stewart, for example


Oh, well, if a TV Comedian says so, it must be true. I hear Jeff Dunam is an expert on Proctology, as well.

i.chzbgr.com

Frederick: You can disagree.


No, I can point out you're factually inaccurate about your tap-dancing around conspiracy theories to explain the "western promotion of the holocaust".

Frederick: But the fact that you feel the need to insult, slander, and accuse suggests you have an agenda to control the message by attacking the messenger.


I don't think I've insulted you, or slandered you in any way. I've only called you out on the language you have used yourself. I've called your "message" indefensible and historically inaccurate, and I've called your accusations of Jewish control of the media unfounded - something you have yet to prove. The fact that, when called upon, the only way you can defend your "theories" about it is to call me a shill or accuse me of having an "agenda" (Which, I guess pointing out historical facts is an agenda to you, it seems.) is quite telling.

I'm not attacking the messenger per say. I'm attacking your beliefs on an event which has more historical documentation than the Christian Church itself.
 
2013-03-05 08:07:21 AM

Frederick: many others have also mentioned the flood of articles pertaining to the Holocaust as opposed to other genocides. My explanation for it is based simply on logic.


Logic would take into account that we lost more soldiers to Hitler than any other foreign war, that Hitler committed those atrocities during that war, that countries frequently take their opponents' outrages and make them a retroactive reason for that war, that the Holocaust was industrial nature of the killing on a scale and intent never seen before, that the Holocaust's goal was absolute 100% extermination of those in territory they control or intend on controlling - something few other genocides actually aimed to accomplish and fewer still (if any) could hope to accomplish. Logic states that often we don't care much about what two countries on the other side of the globe do to each other, that we don't care what Stalin did "to his own people" - a convenient excuse, even if completely false, to help assuage any moral guilt of not having done anything about it.

All of those reasons are so much more compelling than Jews in media, that logic suggests that considering Jews in media even remotely important enough to mention is driven by something OTHER than logic.
 
2013-03-05 08:34:52 AM
I never said Jewish control of the media.

I don't see very much Holocaust articles in Chinese news, or news from India, Mexico, or Brazil. Apparently those sources aren't as influenced by Hitlers methods?

The abundance of Holocaust articles are exclusively an western media occurrence. And I think my opinion explains it.

I'm not even suggesting its sinister, just a natural, logical conclusion based on facts. There are a lot of Jewish people in western journalism.

I find it disappointing that opinion can't be stated without be attacked. I've not insulted anyone.
 
2013-03-05 08:52:51 AM
Brazilian troop losses: 1,000
Mexican Troop losses: 100
The Chinese have reason to LIKE Germans during WWII.
India fought because England compelled them.

So those are all terrible comparisons.

And I never said you said "control"
 
2013-03-05 09:05:33 AM

vygramul: Brazilian troop losses: 1,000
Mexican Troop losses: 100
The Chinese have reason to LIKE Germans during WWII.
India fought because England compelled them.

So those are all terrible comparisons.

And I never said you said "control"


By that logic, what country would be an appropriate comparison outside of western influence?
 
2013-03-05 09:41:19 AM

Frederick: I never said Jewish control of the media.


No. You just suggested that the amount of Jews in media are the reason that the holocaust gets so much press. I mean, only a crazy person would assume that would mean that they control the media. Not a natural end point of your wording in the least.

Frederick: I don't see very much Holocaust articles in Chinese news, or news from India, Mexico, or Brazil. Apparently those sources aren't as influenced by Hitlers methods?


The Chinese were not involved in the Western European theater. You will, on the other hand, see an abundance of material on the Japanese invasion of China, and the Rape of Nanjing, and similar atrocities committed by the Japanese on Asians in the Pacific Theater  In fact, there is SUBSTANTIAL animosity and international tension today as a result of Japan's continued historical revisionism and denialism.  Brazil was known for sheltering Nazis during the 1950s and 60s onwards. Mexico was not a major player in WWII - they learned their lesson with the Zimmerman telegram.

Frederick: The abundance of Holocaust articles are exclusively an western media occurrence. And I think my opinion explains it.


Your opinion ignores every other fact of the matter - including the fact that the Holocaust was a WESTERN atrocity, overwhelmingly and meticulously documented, and carried out with a cold, industrial inhuman drive. It's a stretch at best, and a poorly veiled conspiratorial belief that borders on holocaust apologetics at worse.

It also ignores the fact that legal doctrine for modern command responsibility directly stems from military involvement in the Holocaust, and the Nuremberg trials that followed.

The argument you are making is known as Minimalism in Holocaust Denialist Circles. Even if you don't INTEND to be making that kind of statement, you are doing so.

Frederick: I'm not even suggesting its sinister, just a natural, logical conclusion based on facts. There are a lot of Jewish people in western journalism.


No, it's ignorance of ALL the combined historical and legacy factors which make it relevant even today. There is no "natural logic" in your statement.

Frederick: I find it disappointing that opinion can't be stated without be attacked. I've not insulted anyone.


You have every right to voice your opinion. However, welcome to FARK. When you present vile arguments that, even if you don't intend to be taken as such, come off as holocaust denial, you're going to get bitterness, vitriol, and ridicule in return - especially when your arguments continue to ignore historical facts to the contrary while you decry "it's just logic!"

No. It's Post hoc, ergo propter assumption. It doesn't even make sense when put to the Razor test.
 
2013-03-05 09:43:07 AM

Frederick: I find it disappointing that opinion can't be stated without be attacked. I've not insulted anyone.


Also, stop trying to play the persecution card.

No one has attacked you. We've attacked your arguments, and failure to demonstrate what you've claimed.
 
2013-03-05 09:54:24 AM
There are a lot of black dudes in the NBA. So naturally I'm insinuating the NBA is controlled by a conspiracy of black guys.

You may want to revisit the razor test. One off the key words is "simplest"
 
2013-03-05 10:40:42 AM

Frederick: There are a lot of black dudes in the NBA. So naturally I'm insinuating the NBA is controlled by a conspiracy of black guys.


Sounds like you're saying there's a lot of black guys in the NBA. On the other hand....

Frederick: IMO, Hitler gets the press due to the amount of Jewish representation in western media.


One of these things are not like the other.
 
2013-03-05 08:29:37 PM

Frederick: vygramul: Brazilian troop losses: 1,000
Mexican Troop losses: 100
The Chinese have reason to LIKE Germans during WWII.
India fought because England compelled them.

So those are all terrible comparisons.

And I never said you said "control"

By that logic, what country would be an appropriate comparison outside of western influence?


Actually, mostly you have to compare not how many movies about the Holocaust were made, but what proportion of WWII movies are Holocaust movies.

How many WWII movies has Mexico even made? If they've made two, but one is a Holocaust movie, wouldn't that mean they're even MORE obsessed, relatively, than we are?

But all of that is beyond the point. You really ought to recognize that there are a host of reasons why the Holocaust is objectively different. You don't even seem to be able to admit that something that impacted the president's great uncle with lasting memory might be important to Americans and those GIs who accompanied him far more than the Holodomor ever could. We have more movies about Americans slaughtering Native Americans than we have of the Holodomor - and it's not because of all the Sioux in Hollywood.

If you really care about logic, you'll never make that "Jews in media" mistake again.
 
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