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(Detroit Free Press)   Detroit to be placed under emergency financial manager, Omni Consumer Products expected to bid   (freep.com) divider line 86
    More: Interesting, financial adviser, Detroit, emergency financial manager, Detroit Police Department, Rick Snyder, Wayne State University, President Pro Tem  
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4575 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2013 at 3:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-03-01 04:46:22 PM
5 votes:
Dismantle the rest of the gutted buildings.  Save the wood and bricks and reuse them.  Set up urban agriculture on all the clapped out land plats in the ghettos. Plant food.  Repurpose old factories that are full of rats and frozen water and crack pipes for shelter for the massively homeless and unemployed.  Shave down the auto industry to scale and support businesses that are making a profit.

Hire locally.  Promote the arts and make sure that businesses that have boards full of bloated, overpaid dipweeds pay their taxes. Give out free birth control and sexual health and family planning classes.  You just might not be a post apocalypse film location in 20 years. But if you kick the ladder away, stop pissing and moaning that nobody wants to acquire the necessary education to climb it.

Growing food is the second oldest industry on earth and the land and the economy of the area no longer supports private housing and industry.  You closed up the wage slavery shops and moved them to where there are cheaper slaves, but if you think there's no back end costs, you're deluded.

Wear the shoes that fit, start over and dance with who brung ya.  Endless growth is over.  Finis.  It never existed and the septic tank you're now trying to make habitable again is the end game of taking and putting nothing back and pulling the ripcord when the bottom falls out.  You've been treating working people like serfs and subsistence farmers for decades.  It's time to knock together some sharecropper shacks, toilets, showers and cheap heat and let the other shoe drop. You wanted to be the king amongst peasants. Touchdown.  Now start feeding and clothing your subjects before they burn your castles down.  Cause sending in more fools in funny hats to move money around to people who don't need it isn't going to reboot a model that no longer has any bearing on the actual economy of the third millennium and the people living 6 to a flat and serving you coffee will lose interest in watching your BMW roll by every day, eventually.  Nobody who can see the world they're shuttered out of is going to be content to call living a group home of scullery maids and taxi dance butlers a life.  You hear that bell?
2013-03-01 02:34:13 PM
5 votes:

Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?


Detroit
2013-03-01 01:25:40 PM
5 votes:
Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?
2013-03-01 05:12:13 PM
3 votes:

Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid.

"Liberal", "Conservative"  "Democrat" and "Republican" are

a b s o l u t e l y

m e a n i n g l e s s .



You're welcome.
2013-03-01 04:16:10 PM
3 votes:

yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.


To be fair, you'd have to find a case where such a situation exists. Can you? I can point to dozens of cities, including the one nearest to me (Harrisburg, PA), that have been savaged by the policies of their leaders. With very few exceptions, they are all governed by Democrats.

Is that a reflection of the party as a whole or the mores of the locales in question? Maybe a little bit of both. But mostly it's the failure of the electorate to vote for people who will govern responsibly instead of running on ridiculous populism and promises that they simply cannot keep without driving the city into the ground, which they then invariably do.
2013-03-01 03:30:56 PM
3 votes:
Please let it be Bing.
2013-03-01 12:52:40 PM
3 votes:
4.bp.blogspot.com

Detroit, brought to you by Carl's Jr.

2013-03-01 07:55:59 PM
2 votes:

TwistedFark: It has deep structural problems that can't be easily or quickly solved.


image.made-in-china.com

plantcovercrops.com

m9.i.pbase.com
2013-03-01 05:50:18 PM
2 votes:
You ever go to a party at a party center for like a reception or something and at the end of the night, everybody is half hammered and the floor is covered in sparkles and confetti and people are filling little plastic bags with prime rib and hors d'oeuvres and putting the leftover beer in their cars and somebody is standing there with a broom waiting for everybody to get the f*ck out and you wonder, "what becomes of this place when the party's over?"  That's where America is now.  This is just the most visible portion of the emperor's naked ass.
2013-03-01 05:22:24 PM
2 votes:
Everyone knows exactly what is wrong with Detroit.

Can't solve the problem until the problem is allowed to be recognized.
2013-03-01 05:14:58 PM
2 votes:

ha-ha-guy: Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?

Meh, it keeps the Canucks on their side of the Detroit River.


Judging by the looks of Windsor, Ontario vs Detroit, the Canadians taking over would be a vast improvement.
2013-03-01 05:08:43 PM
2 votes:
The growth is over.  Over.  The American dream has been moved.  The new American success story is to be a very astute chiseler, grab what you can before they repo the joint and stay off the radar.  That's why that airbrushed eagle is crying.
2013-03-01 05:01:59 PM
2 votes:

Amos Quito: bunner: Growing food is the second oldest industry on earth and the land and the economy of the area no longer supports private housing and industry. You closed up the wage slavery shops and moved them to where there are cheaper slaves, but if you think there's no back end costs, you're deluded.


I smell the stench of the Politicians that for decades have sold us down the river via traitorous trade policies - and the Corporats and Banksters that bought them.


Everybody knows the party is over and the people who have access to the kitchen are just trying to empty all the leftovers and silverware into their trunk before the lights go out.  There is no government, there are no job creators, the is no "viable emergency management plan".  This is the fire sale.  And it's gonna happen while we argue wither each other over which smart phone is better, who makes the coolest spinning rims and whether or not McDonald's is better than Burger King.  Business plans.  Don't be on the ass end of them.
2013-03-01 04:56:05 PM
2 votes:

ha-ha-guy: ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.

Yup, the City Council dug their own graves when they went all in against Bing's plans to shrink the city's service footprint.  Everyone knew it had to be done, the Mayor of the Detroit had a reasonable proposal on the table, and the farkers refused out of a fear it might remotely impact their corrupt little fiefdoms.  So now Lansing is going to do it.  Basically they proved even if an intelligent and capable executive is elected, the City Council will fark it all up.


This and this.

I think the emergency manager will help a lot.  The last one we had (Flint), had the power to remove elected officials all together.  Out of office and removed the office as well, so I can't wait to hear the shake up this will bring.  Our police and fire unions learned the EM is not some push over mayor worrying over reelections.  I think the EM went a little too far in some aspects, but something has to be done somewhere to get their attention.  I am sure the first thing gone off Detroit's plate will be Belle Isle, that was a gift of a deal and the council members wanted more money.  Those idiots indeed.  Just unloading that floating turd so MI can get it back to what it was 20 years ago, will mean millions on top of what MI offered Detroit.  That last cart race held there made me cry and laugh.  You know it bothered Snyder and that is probably why he is trying to repair Belle Isle.  I don't usually like Snyder, but when I do it is usually good.
2013-03-01 04:27:46 PM
2 votes:

Hobodeluxe: JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.

hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?


Here and here.  Note the second story where the principal stole AP test fees from students.
2013-03-01 04:08:48 PM
2 votes:

Aidan: Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.

It's also funny (infuriating) when the news says things like "Romney visited Detroit today, to talk to people at Chrysler headquarters."

For those of you not in the know, that's nowhere near Detroit. Not even close, geographically, financially, or socially.


Some people use the term "Detroit" to mean "the domestic auto industry".  It's like how people use the term "Hollywood" to mean "the film industry", even though there is only minimal film production in Hollywood itself.
2013-03-01 04:06:46 PM
2 votes:
Every time I read about Detroit I am amazed the same thing didn't happen to  Pittsburgh.  Pittsburgh had the same drastic loss in manufacturing and population, probably worse, in fact, but somehow didn't turn into a hell-hole.  And we did it with people we elected ourselves!
2013-03-01 03:52:19 PM
2 votes:
Since the democratically-elected officials that run this city have failed their constituents over and over, for decades, and the constituents are too stupid to realize it, its time for someone else to take charge.

This is long overdue.  It's what happens when you let democrats run things for long enough.   It's great hearing liberals squeal and try to deflect the blame for the mess they made, unfortunately the less intelligent and less educated members of society will believe them.
2013-03-01 03:50:36 PM
2 votes:
I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.
2013-03-01 03:50:01 PM
2 votes:
www.everseradio.com

Detroit needs a Doctor.
2013-03-01 03:44:23 PM
2 votes:
Can we all just admit that, combined with many other factors; rampant corruption, cronyism, shear incompetence and chronic mismanagement has driven the once great city of Detroit to the equivilant of a third world hell hole?

/ and no one in politics is innocent
2013-03-01 03:40:34 PM
2 votes:
By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government
2013-03-02 11:46:44 AM
1 votes:

TwistedFark: LibertyHiller: blue_2501: meyerkev: blue_2501: [i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

What is that graph trying to tell us?

Sorry, should have posted the news link:

With Detroit under an Emergency Manager, half of Michigan blacks will have no elected local govt

[i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

Also, TRMS video on this situation is good stuff.

/tried submitting this to Fark, but Fark modmins don't care about black people
//either that or just an intense hatred of all things Rachel Maddow

Wrong. The elected local government will still be there; it simply won't have any power over the pursestrings. Elections will be held, speeches will be made (cf. Tom Wolfe's "Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers") and votes will be tallied. The difference will be that the mayor and the council, having failed to exercise financial powers responsibly (and this is a problem with every council and mayor for the last 40 years), will have no power to spend money or even to allocate it. This is how receivership works.

If the city were in bankruptcy, it would have an unelected receiver appointed by the court, with much the same powers as the EFM. The EFM is simply a state-appointed receiver. Would any of you care to explain how one receiver is evil and the other is just peachy keen?

One can be appointed by your political enemies at any given time whenever they want to and the other can be appointed by a judge under a specific situation??


Not how it works; there has to be a pattern of financial insolvency, and there's a process for appointing the EFM. Yesterday's announcement was merely one step in a long process (if I read this right, Step 5 of 12).

More or less that seems to be the complaint. As much as I agree that something needs to be done in Detroit (EFM? Sure I guess) the law that Snyder signed is flagrantly open to abuse and I can see why.

Since you don't seem to understand the process, how can you say that you understand the law?

Mentat: LibertyHiller: Because the EFM is being appointed by a partisan Republican Governor who (along with other recent Rust Belt Republican Governors) is using his power to force through Republican ideology on a population that has soundly rejected it.  The EFM's job is not to fix Detroit, it's to bust the unions and sell off Detroit's assets to the Governor's friends, just like they've done in other Michigan cities already.


Mmmm... so you were OK with EFMs when Granholm was appointing them?

Do you mind listing which of Snyder's friends have profited, and where? Because the biggest asset sale I can think of in the case of an EFM would be Pontiac selling its water system to a county water authority.

Not to defend Snyder, but he's not terribly partisan when compared to Jace Bolger or Randy Richardville. Those are the guys who are pushing the ideology of reaction, far more than Snyder is.
2013-03-01 11:31:05 PM
1 votes:

ciberido: bunner: Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid."My opinions are obviously true to me, therefore they are correct" is not much of an argument, I'm afraid.


And "I have dismissed your construct as mere wittering opinion, signifying nothing" isn't much of a critique.  Is it?  Wave that flag higher.  The other team might win.  I mean, some people are still buying the dog and pony show, but I ain't.  You stick with magazine rack editorializing and I'll stick with beliefs vs. results benefit cost / benefits analysis.  there, that was easy, wunnit?   :  )
2013-03-01 11:16:27 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid.


"My opinions are obviously true to me, therefore they are correct" is not much of an argument, I'm afraid.
2013-03-01 11:05:25 PM
1 votes:

Geotpf: Aidan: Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.

It's also funny (infuriating) when the news says things like "Romney visited Detroit today, to talk to people at Chrysler headquarters."

For those of you not in the know, that's nowhere near Detroit. Not even close, geographically, financially, or socially.

Some people use the term "Detroit" to mean "the domestic auto industry".  It's like how people use the term "Hollywood" to mean "the film industry", even though there is only minimal film production in Hollywood itself.


The technical term for this is  metonym.
2013-03-01 10:01:04 PM
1 votes:
www.detroits-great-rebellion.com

This one.
2013-03-01 09:37:50 PM
1 votes:

weirdneighbour: This is directed to detroit residents. Couple years ago my tractor semi  broke down (clutch went) I was on Lynch Ave. about to turn on Van Dyke. This was about 11am, had to wait for tow truck to bring another tractor from our yard in London canada a two hour drive. when all said and done was there for about 5 hours, Most of the neighbourhoods looked pretty burned out, dirt and grass were covering at least half of the sidewalk. I walked to the corner store and the cashier area was surrounded by thick plexiglass,.had more than a couple of people come up to truck and ask for money, I just said I was from Canada and that sent them away.
  Well my question is was I lucky it was 11am and not 11pm.   I remember reading somewhere this is where the riots in 1968 started??


Question one:  yes.  Question two:  no

/riots were in '67,  we won the world series in '68
//'67 riots started at a blind pig, at 12th Street (now Rosa Parks Blvd.) and Clairmount
2013-03-01 08:48:21 PM
1 votes:

birdboy2000: Better a bad government that won an election than a good one that didn't.


2.bp.blogspot.com
2013-03-01 08:31:29 PM
1 votes:

blue_2501: [i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]


What is that graph trying to tell us?
2013-03-01 07:46:31 PM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: birdboy2000: If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.

Of Michigan's large Democrat-controlled cities, only Ann Arbor isn't the equivalent of a failed-state.

Hell, even some of the tiny towns are Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome-levels of hopeless.


Baloney. Lansing's mayor is a democrat and he gets alot of support from the local residents and business community for his economic policy. They're actually doing quite well and like Ann Arbor are the only other city in Michigan to have a serious developing high-tech sector.

What you are not noticing is that the major population areas tend to be democratically controlled, out of those major areas one of them has a history of just down right corrupt cronyism. It's not party specific otherwise AA and Lansing/EL would be in the same boat. It's very specific to Detroit and the history of that city.

Personally I support the EFM call on Detroit. The city council there needs to be bombed because they thwart any effective leadership at the mayoral level. Having an EFM will allow that individual to bypass the council and rectify some of the cities problems - and hopefully uncover evidence needed to send some of them and their supporters to jail.

Also I grew up in Allen Park and I can flat out say the #1 problem with the Detroit area is JOBS.

Some of my cousins, the only work they can find without a college degree is at Wal-Mart and the ones that do go for higher education end up leaving because the opportunity isn't there in the area (maybe if there had been more software or computer businesses in the area when I was graduating from college, I would have stayed instead of going to California... who knows?)

Anyway, it's not a problem that can be solved or attributed to any particular political party. You'll notice that the two areas of the state that are doing rather well have HUGE educational institutions there and are actively using that as an asset to lure new business. How can Detroit hope to emulate that with the infrastructure it has set up right now? I have no idea.

I guess what I am saying is that even cleaning out the corruption in Detroit isn't going to save the city. It has deep structural problems that can't be easily or quickly solved.
2013-03-01 07:16:41 PM
1 votes:
The year is 1974:

In Young's first year, there were 801 murders, up from 508 just three years before, and the old label "Murder City" gave way, in the press and the streets, to the grimmer still "Kill City." Even as the numbers rose, the crimes themselves grew nastier: old-fashioned one-on-one sexual assaults became gang rapes, stabbings were replaced by shootings, and unruly fights by execution-style slayings. Hardly a week went by without a major horror story on the front page of the papers. Police investigators were shocked, as one put it, by "the way the public accepts the homicide rate." Indignation, the copy told a reporter, had been replaced by a "ho-hum, another murder." The department was baffled by a rash of inquiries from citizens about the number of slayings in a given week- until it came out that the curious callers were organizing office betting pools
2013-03-01 06:51:30 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid.

"Liberal", "Conservative"  "Democrat" and "Republican" are

a b s o l u t e l y

m e a n i n g l e s s .


You're welcome.


Yea...but the Republicans and the Conservatives left Detroit a long time ago.
2013-03-01 06:48:43 PM
1 votes:
This is what happens with 5 decades of Liberal Progressiveness.
2013-03-01 06:33:38 PM
1 votes:

Onkel Buck: [i26.photobucket.com image 280x280]
and all I got was a dead hooker


Hey man, that party never happened.  Didn't you hear?

/I heard the rumors long before they hit the news..................
2013-03-01 06:14:18 PM
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: There's nowhere to go but up.


Get back to me in another 5-10 years.
2013-03-01 06:13:18 PM
1 votes:

Jodeo: [www.annarbor.com image 149x176]
Miss Me Yet?


No.  Nobody does.  Criminals selling themselves as the least reprehensible criminal, and therefore the best choice, is half the problem.  People thinking that's all the get is the other half.   :  )
2013-03-01 06:08:04 PM
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.

To be fair, you'd have to find a case where such a situation exists. Can you? I can point to dozens of cities, including the one nearest to me (Harrisburg, PA), that have been savaged by the policies of their leaders. With very few exceptions, they are all governed by Democrats.

Is that a reflection of the party as a whole or the mores of the locales in question? Maybe a little bit of both. But mostly it's the failure of the electorate to vote for people who will govern responsibly instead of running on ridiculous populism and promises that they simply cannot keep without driving the city into the ground, which they then invariably do.


With very few exceptions, all cities (successful or not) of any significant size are governed by Democrats and feature a majority Democratic voting population.  Note: Maybe not be valid in the former Confederate States of America.

Assuming you are not in the land of Dixie, here's how it works:

Rural areas are almost always Republican.
Suburbs that are next to rural areas are usually Republican.
Suburbs that are next to big cities are usually Democratic.
Big cities are almost always Democratic.

That is, the reason poorly run big cities are always run by Democrats is because they are big cities, not because they are poorly run.
2013-03-01 06:07:40 PM
1 votes:

DogBoyTheCat: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government
I thought that was what he was trying to do already


That derp was dealt with up thread.  State Constitution != Federal Constitution
2013-03-01 06:06:49 PM
1 votes:

IrateShadow: Onkel Buck: This book talks about that very thing

I went to amazon and read the description and cringed harder than I have in a long time.  Then I hit up google to see if this guy is a crank and hit a wall of WP sites.  Think I'm going to take a pass on that one.


Yeah, not helpful is the nicest thing I could say.
2013-03-01 05:57:42 PM
1 votes:

Onkel Buck: This book talks about that very thing


I went to amazon and read the description and cringed harder than I have in a long time.  Then I hit up google to see if this guy is a crank and hit a wall of WP sites.  Think I'm going to take a pass on that one.
2013-03-01 05:30:08 PM
1 votes:

kwame: This text is now purple: yeegrek: For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit.

You know how Kilpatrick won? (Besides manipulation by his mother) Voters in Detroit wanted a mayor who was more black than Dennis Archer.

The joke was on them. They got one.

Would you f*ckers stop talking about him?  I hate when that douche bag makes my inbox blow up with notices.


He's about to get convicted.  Get ready.
2013-03-01 05:18:01 PM
1 votes:

killershark: ha-ha-guy: ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.

Yup, the City Council dug their own graves when they went all in against Bing's plans to shrink the city's service footprint.  Everyone knew it had to be done, the Mayor of the Detroit had a reasonable proposal on the table, and the farkers refused out of a fear it might remotely impact their corrupt little fiefdoms.  So now Lansing is going to do it.  Basically they proved even if an intelligent and capable executive is elected, the City Council will fark it all up.

The city council started digging their grave when Coleman Young let them ransack the place for their own personal gains. It's just been going down from there.

Grew up in the Oakland Co. suburbs and haven't been back in years but still breaks my heart to see it has become this bad. Is Bing the right solution though? I think it would be interesting to see a business/finance type come in and clean up the books.


Bing's a businessman.
2013-03-01 05:16:36 PM
1 votes:

yeegrek: For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit.


You know how Kilpatrick won? (Besides manipulation by his mother) Voters in Detroit wanted a mayor who was more black than Dennis Archer.

The joke was on them. They got one.
2013-03-01 05:11:40 PM
1 votes:

The Ice Cream Man: JohnAnnArbor: The Ice Cream Man: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.

He was restricted by city charter.  As EFM he would not be.

Leaders lead.  Pretenders make excuses.


Detroit has a weak-mayor structure. It's the city council that has power.
2013-03-01 05:09:54 PM
1 votes:

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party


The blame for this farkup lies solely with the Democrats.  They have had complete control of Detroit for decades.
2013-03-01 05:02:38 PM
1 votes:

iheartscotch: Can we all just admit that, combined with many other factors; rampant corruption, cronyism, shear incompetence and chronic mismanagement has driven the once great city Nation of Detroit the U.S.A. to the equivalent of a third world hell hole?

/ and no one in politics is innocent

FFTFYD
2013-03-01 04:41:09 PM
1 votes:

ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.


Yup, the City Council dug their own graves when they went all in against Bing's plans to shrink the city's service footprint.  Everyone knew it had to be done, the Mayor of the Detroit had a reasonable proposal on the table, and the farkers refused out of a fear it might remotely impact their corrupt little fiefdoms.  So now Lansing is going to do it.  Basically they proved even if an intelligent and capable executive is elected, the City Council will fark it all up.
2013-03-01 04:40:30 PM
1 votes:

kmfjd: How many Detroit city council members will be crying racism?


I don't know. The answer depends on how many there are.
2013-03-01 04:39:03 PM
1 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: kmfjd: How many Detroit city council members will be crying racism?

Not all.  Some do, though, when waking up, getting coffee, showing up at the office, etc.  Basically continuously.  Sad and incredibly counterproductive, as well as sadly effective.


The President has already hint at it and said if it isn't a black person, the race card is getting played.  It's said how many good ideas die in Detroit, simply because the white folk up in Oakland County support it, so it must be the work of the devil.

/also hopefully AATA is able to avoid this SE Michigan transit authority bullshiat that Snyder proposes
2013-03-01 04:37:02 PM
1 votes:
When the Little Rock School District proved to be incompetent at integrating their schools, it was OK for Eisenhower to send in Emergency Managers called the 101st Airborne.
2013-03-01 04:35:54 PM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: Detroit?

Just let it go, man.

It's gone.


People have voted with their feet for decades.  It's been staggeringly sad to watch.
2013-03-01 04:33:44 PM
1 votes:

Southern100: Hobodeluxe: JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.

hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?

I found it pretty easily.

http://detroitk12.org/admin/inspector_general/docs/audit_reports/200 9_ Annual_Report.pdf

The audit found that the Office lacked inventory procedures and had limited controls over its inventory including weapons. In conducting a physical inventory, the OAG found:

160 blackberry phones new in the box,
97 hand held two-way phones, new in the box
21 metal detectors
1872 new master locks
1870 video tapes
132 new safety kits
586 motion detectors
501 switch boxes
11 motorcycles (with limited mileage)
1996 Chevrolet Caprice Classic

They DID report they didn't find any "Ghost" employees, though. So not sure where that came from.


Funny, my bad there.  I was sure I had heard it.  That's what happens when synapses age, I guess.  (I still think the idea of having poeple show up to pick up the checks was a brilliant move.)
2013-03-01 04:32:27 PM
1 votes:

The Ice Cream Man: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.

What makes you think Bing would be any better as emergency manager?  He's been mayor for three years, and has had a revolving door of executive staff the entire time!  My biggest complaint against Bing is that he needed to be decisive from DAY ONE, yet he came into office with no clue of how bad things were, and no plan on how to fix them.  This "One Detroit" nonsense was a multi year long consensus project:  ask the citizens what they want, when all the citizens want to do is shout down anyone who has an idea that doesn't involve getting phantom money that the state "owes" the city.

What is also missing from this discussion is that the City has been under a "Consent Agreement" since about last April.  The city should have been under an emergency manager from that time forward, but Gov. Snyder naively gave the city one more chance to get its house in order.   Now we are another two billion deeper in debt with nothing to show for it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the city ends up in Chapter 9 bankruptcy.  The biggest problem I see with that is that all of the bond holders have their bonds guaranteed by the pension funds.  In other words, if the city defaults, the rich people who bought the muni bonds will be made whole, while the working stiffs will lose their pensions.  I am no fan of the Detroit civil service, but still...

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.


He was restricted by city charter.  As EFM he would not be.
2013-03-01 04:31:08 PM
1 votes:
fark Jones!
2013-03-01 04:30:57 PM
1 votes:

YixilTesiphon: Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 234x240]


Good map.  Snyder is governor of the whole state, and he takes that seriously.   The state includes Detroit.
2013-03-01 04:29:13 PM
1 votes:

Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.


What makes you think Bing would be any better as emergency manager?  He's been mayor for three years, and has had a revolving door of executive staff the entire time!  My biggest complaint against Bing is that he needed to be decisive from DAY ONE, yet he came into office with no clue of how bad things were, and no plan on how to fix them.  This "One Detroit" nonsense was a multi year long consensus project:  ask the citizens what they want, when all the citizens want to do is shout down anyone who has an idea that doesn't involve getting phantom money that the state "owes" the city.

What is also missing from this discussion is that the City has been under a "Consent Agreement" since about last April.  The city should have been under an emergency manager from that time forward, but Gov. Snyder naively gave the city one more chance to get its house in order.   Now we are another two billion deeper in debt with nothing to show for it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the city ends up in Chapter 9 bankruptcy.  The biggest problem I see with that is that all of the bond holders have their bonds guaranteed by the pension funds.  In other words, if the city defaults, the rich people who bought the muni bonds will be made whole, while the working stiffs will lose their pensions.  I am no fan of the Detroit civil service, but still...

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.
2013-03-01 04:28:10 PM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.


And after all the unions have done for that city.
2013-03-01 04:26:59 PM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.


upload.wikimedia.org
2013-03-01 04:21:57 PM
1 votes:
Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.
2013-03-01 04:21:08 PM
1 votes:

birdboy2000: If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.


The states don't exist at the pleasure of the federal government. Municipalities generally exist at the pleasure of the state government.
2013-03-01 04:20:09 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: That would be amazing.

//Former Michigan resident.


Its a long shot, but given the shiat hole Detroit has dug themselves into it could honestly be a nice turn around.
2013-03-01 04:16:58 PM
1 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.


hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?
2013-03-01 04:15:05 PM
1 votes:
If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.
2013-03-01 04:15:03 PM
1 votes:

MyKingdomForYourHorse: meat0918: I thought though that brownfields are typically not polluted enough to warrant Superfund monies. The EPA has an entire separate branch to deal with brownfields. http://www.epa.gov/brownfields/

//And here is where you can look up your local Superfund sites http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/

As they demolish and clear land last I heard there was a push to collectively gather many of the brown sites into one large superfund because of the total land area of the pollution not necessarily the amount and breadth.

It was rejected several years back but given the increase in razed land I think they are going to try to propose it again


That would be amazing.

//Former Michigan resident.
2013-03-01 04:13:59 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: I thought though that brownfields are typically not polluted enough to warrant Superfund monies. The EPA has an entire separate branch to deal with brownfields. http://www.epa.gov/brownfields/

//And here is where you can look up your local Superfund sites http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/


As they demolish and clear land last I heard there was a push to collectively gather many of the brown sites into one large superfund because of the total land area of the pollution not necessarily the amount and breadth.

It was rejected several years back but given the increase in razed land I think they are going to try to propose it again
2013-03-01 04:09:17 PM
1 votes:

Aidan: I'm not certain, but I was told that many of them simply sit vacant with the expectation that a buyer would have to pay the full amount to do cleanup.

I'd be very happy to be wrong, though!


There are already several EPA superfund sites in Michigan and there are a bevy of others to try and fix those
2013-03-01 04:09:02 PM
1 votes:
robotmonkeys.net
2013-03-01 04:04:38 PM
1 votes:

Aidan: JohnAnnArbor: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.

It seems like the structural setup in Detroit makes Bing much weaker than a big-city mayor typically is.  So it would make sense to (essentially) give him the power and let him run with it.

Agreed. I've been keeping an ear out for more stuff on the Detroit Blight Authority, but no new news there. I wonder if it'll be affected by this.


The idea of essentially abandoning entire neighborhoods (to allow services to be turned off) has merit, but will be very difficult to actually do, for a number of very good reasons (people don't want to move, property-ownership issues, etc.).  But drastic times call for at least looking at drastic solutions.

FYI for outsiders: Detroit had almost 2 million people in 1960 and has around 750,000 now.
2013-03-01 04:02:08 PM
1 votes:

Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.


It's also funny (infuriating) when the news says things like "Romney visited Detroit today, to talk to people at Chrysler headquarters."

For those of you not in the know, that's nowhere near Detroit. Not even close, geographically, financially, or socially.
2013-03-01 03:59:01 PM
1 votes:

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party


Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.
2013-03-01 03:57:57 PM
1 votes:

Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.


It seems like the structural setup in Detroit makes Bing much weaker than a big-city mayor typically is.  So it would make sense to (essentially) give him the power and let him run with it.
2013-03-01 03:55:31 PM
1 votes:

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Callous: Yes, everyone knows that Detroit is just a bastion of Republicans and conservatism.

To be fair, that one side has had explicit power in the area is testament that a two party system that work hand in hand towards a centrist compromise is critical to our democracy.

Course, the door swings both ways. Look at the dysfunction in the Senate and House


We need leadership that doesn't act like children.

/cue the shills who blame the other side while saying their side is never part of the problem.
2013-03-01 03:54:11 PM
1 votes:
The derp will be epic on this thread.

Continue please.

farm2.staticflickr.com
2013-03-01 03:54:07 PM
1 votes:

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


It's not really an apt comparison because the states are enshrined in the Constitution. Cities in Michigan are explicitly established by the State.
2013-03-01 03:50:21 PM
1 votes:
Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new governmentderp I don't understand the hierarchy of governments in the United States derp
2013-03-01 03:49:30 PM
1 votes:

CognaciousThunk: Hate to say it, but I wouldn't buy Detroit for a dollar.


There are some moderately nice bits in downtown and midtown, and the suburbs are hilariously rich once you get more than 20 minutes out or so.  It's just this whole area in the middle that's this abandoned hellhole where they need to just stop servicing entire neighborhoods.
2013-03-01 03:41:59 PM
1 votes:

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


No, because the Constitution doesn't work that way.

But state constitutions are different.  City charters are granted by the state.
2013-03-01 03:41:31 PM
1 votes:
And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.
2013-03-01 03:38:37 PM
1 votes:

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting. What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party Democrats

2013-03-01 03:37:13 PM
1 votes:
www.robocoparchive.com

YOU ARE FIVE DAYS, SIX HOURS AND TWENTY-SEVEN MINUTES LATE WITH YOUR FIRST QUARTER PROPERTY TAX PAYMENT. PLACE THE MONEY IN THE BAG AND SLIDE IT OVER TO ME. YOU HAVE THIRTY SECONDS TO COMPLY.
2013-03-01 03:36:43 PM
1 votes:
i202.photobucket.com

The top candidate?
2013-03-01 03:36:20 PM
1 votes:

Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?


Meh, it keeps the Canucks on their side of the Detroit River.
2013-03-01 03:34:57 PM
1 votes:

Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party

The Republican Party
2013-03-01 01:22:15 PM
1 votes:
This man is happy to hear it.
2.bp.blogspot.com
2013-03-01 12:06:46 PM
1 votes:
So much for Democracy. Well, we had a good run...
 
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