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(Detroit Free Press)   Detroit to be placed under emergency financial manager, Omni Consumer Products expected to bid   (freep.com) divider line 269
    More: Interesting, financial adviser, Detroit, emergency financial manager, Detroit Police Department, Rick Snyder, Wayne State University, President Pro Tem  
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4583 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2013 at 3:28 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



269 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-01 12:06:46 PM  
So much for Democracy. Well, we had a good run...
 
2013-03-01 12:10:06 PM  
Wait, did someone put out the fires before the place had a chance to burn to the ground?
 
2013-03-01 12:26:43 PM  
Well, there's the overreach.  It had to happen sometime.
 
2013-03-01 12:39:34 PM  
It's a little insurance policy called "Directive 4"
 
2013-03-01 12:52:40 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

Detroit, brought to you by Carl's Jr.

 
2013-03-01 01:04:02 PM  
Sounds like some sort of dodge.
 
2013-03-01 01:22:15 PM  
This man is happy to hear it.
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-01 01:25:40 PM  
Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?
 
2013-03-01 02:34:13 PM  

Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?


Detroit
 
2013-03-01 03:29:55 PM  

basemetal: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 280x266]

Detroit, brought to you by Carl's Jr.


Fark you, I'm eating.
 
2013-03-01 03:30:56 PM  
Please let it be Bing.
 
2013-03-01 03:31:13 PM  
You down with OCP?
 
2013-03-01 03:31:35 PM  
The sequester made is necessary   The FBI can't afford to come by every other month and arrest the city council and mayor on corruption charges.
 
2013-03-01 03:33:03 PM  
i78.photobucket.com

.....Yeah, U know me!!!
 
2013-03-01 03:33:07 PM  

Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party

 
2013-03-01 03:33:12 PM  
Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?
 
2013-03-01 03:34:57 PM  

Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party

The Republican Party
 
2013-03-01 03:35:42 PM  

Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?


Dumbass that is impossible!  Italy is a boot, Michigan is a mitten! Learn you some Geometry!
 
2013-03-01 03:35:53 PM  
Hate to say it, but I wouldn't buy Detroit for a dollar.
 
2013-03-01 03:36:20 PM  

Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?


Meh, it keeps the Canucks on their side of the Detroit River.
 
2013-03-01 03:36:43 PM  
i202.photobucket.com

The top candidate?
 
2013-03-01 03:36:55 PM  

Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?


Canada's not buying.
 
2013-03-01 03:37:13 PM  
www.robocoparchive.com

YOU ARE FIVE DAYS, SIX HOURS AND TWENTY-SEVEN MINUTES LATE WITH YOUR FIRST QUARTER PROPERTY TAX PAYMENT. PLACE THE MONEY IN THE BAG AND SLIDE IT OVER TO ME. YOU HAVE THIRTY SECONDS TO COMPLY.
 
2013-03-01 03:37:44 PM  

Nogrhi: Sounds like some sort of dodge.



buuuu hiiiick
 
2013-03-01 03:37:47 PM  
www.pilatesmakesyouhappy.com

Detroit should give this guy a call.....
 
2013-03-01 03:37:55 PM  

Begoggle: [i202.photobucket.com image 576x320]

The top candidate?


Aww, you beat me to it.  "Take him to Detroit!"
 
2013-03-01 03:38:37 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting. What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party Democrats

 
2013-03-01 03:39:08 PM  
Sam Chu!
 
2013-03-01 03:40:34 PM  
By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government
 
2013-03-01 03:40:47 PM  
Returning from a road trip, my family and I were commenting on how little bad driving we had seen on it.

On a freeway, we passed the Detroit city limits.  At the moment, we were being passed on the right--unremarkable, except we were in the right lane at the time.

The most amusing thing I ever saw in Detroit was an all-orange car.  The only thing NOT orange was all the chromework, which was gold.  Big Cadillac Fleetwood, all orange--including all the glass, including the windshield.  The fellow driving was dressed as if he were a stereotypical pimp in a bad '70s movie.
 
2013-03-01 03:41:17 PM  

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


The Blaze like typing detected
 
2013-03-01 03:41:31 PM  
And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.
 
2013-03-01 03:41:59 PM  

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


No, because the Constitution doesn't work that way.

But state constitutions are different.  City charters are granted by the state.
 
2013-03-01 03:42:18 PM  
It's gotten bad enough that they can't even keep their police force from continuously investigating crimes in California.

www.sewickleylibrary.org
 
2013-03-01 03:43:16 PM  

yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.


If they'd gone through all the procedures to prove that the local authority was incompetent that Detroit had gone through, no problem.
 
2013-03-01 03:44:23 PM  
Can we all just admit that, combined with many other factors; rampant corruption, cronyism, shear incompetence and chronic mismanagement has driven the once great city of Detroit to the equivilant of a third world hell hole?

/ and no one in politics is innocent
 
2013-03-01 03:44:25 PM  
TFA: "Gov. Rick Snyder today pulled the trigger..."

Accidentally-perfect analogy?
 
2013-03-01 03:44:42 PM  

yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.


And, a Democratic governor almost used the same power to remove Detroit's mayor (Kilpatrick); it was only stopped when he resigned.
 
2013-03-01 03:44:54 PM  

yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.


Oh, many of the retirees that jumped on the Teabagger train in Michigan got a rude awakening when their pensions started getting taxed by the guy that courted the "Taxed Enough Already" crowd.  They might not have voted for Obama, but they didn't turn out for Romney either.

It finally chased my step-father away from Fox News.
 
2013-03-01 03:45:16 PM  
i.cdn.turner.com

I'll give you $35.
 
2013-03-01 03:45:50 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party


Yes, everyone knows that Detroit is just a bastion of Republicans and conservatism.
 
2013-03-01 03:46:42 PM  
moviesmedia.ign.com
Can you fly?
 
2013-03-01 03:47:50 PM  
and yall keep voting Democrat...

ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2013-03-01 03:48:44 PM  

meat0918: yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.

Oh, many of the retirees that jumped on the Teabagger train in Michigan got a rude awakening when their pensions started getting taxed by the guy that courted the "Taxed Enough Already" crowd.  They might not have voted for Obama, but they didn't turn out for Romney either.

It finally chased my step-father away from Fox News.


Wait, I got confused.  It was my mother enforcing a no political or religious talk in the house because the parties involved couldn't chat without it escalating into a shouting match and it was tearing apart my step-dad's extended family and my family was not wanting to visit our mother because of his families issues.
 
2013-03-01 03:49:30 PM  

CognaciousThunk: Hate to say it, but I wouldn't buy Detroit for a dollar.


There are some moderately nice bits in downtown and midtown, and the suburbs are hilariously rich once you get more than 20 minutes out or so.  It's just this whole area in the middle that's this abandoned hellhole where they need to just stop servicing entire neighborhoods.
 
2013-03-01 03:49:48 PM  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_emergency

This law and its use has nothing to do with politics.
 
2013-03-01 03:50:01 PM  
www.everseradio.com

Detroit needs a Doctor.
 
2013-03-01 03:50:21 PM  
Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new governmentderp I don't understand the hierarchy of governments in the United States derp
 
2013-03-01 03:50:36 PM  
I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.
 
2013-03-01 03:52:19 PM  
Since the democratically-elected officials that run this city have failed their constituents over and over, for decades, and the constituents are too stupid to realize it, its time for someone else to take charge.

This is long overdue.  It's what happens when you let democrats run things for long enough.   It's great hearing liberals squeal and try to deflect the blame for the mess they made, unfortunately the less intelligent and less educated members of society will believe them.
 
2013-03-01 03:52:33 PM  
Gov. Rick Snyder today pulled the trigger and announced he will appoint an emergency financial manager (EFM)
The decision means Motown will soon have a new boss in charge of restructuring Detroit's dire financial mess. That restructuring likely will include drastic cuts in public services and a top-down rethinking of the type of government a shrunken city with a dwindling tax base can afford.
 vs.
"I don't support the appointment of an EFM as it eliminates democratically elected leadership in our city," said Brown, a former deputy police chief.

That sure make's it clear what this is for / and against.
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-01 03:53:20 PM  

Callous: Yes, everyone knows that Detroit is just a bastion of Republicans and conservatism.


To be fair, that one side has had explicit power in the area is testament that a two party system that work hand in hand towards a centrist compromise is critical to our democracy.

Course, the door swings both ways. Look at the dysfunction in the Senate and House
 
2013-03-01 03:54:07 PM  

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


It's not really an apt comparison because the states are enshrined in the Constitution. Cities in Michigan are explicitly established by the State.
 
2013-03-01 03:54:11 PM  
The derp will be epic on this thread.

Continue please.

farm2.staticflickr.com
 
2013-03-01 03:54:17 PM  

Why Would I Read the Article: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting. What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party Democrats

The United States
 
2013-03-01 03:55:31 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Callous: Yes, everyone knows that Detroit is just a bastion of Republicans and conservatism.

To be fair, that one side has had explicit power in the area is testament that a two party system that work hand in hand towards a centrist compromise is critical to our democracy.

Course, the door swings both ways. Look at the dysfunction in the Senate and House


We need leadership that doesn't act like children.

/cue the shills who blame the other side while saying their side is never part of the problem.
 
2013-03-01 03:55:46 PM  

meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.


I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.
 
2013-03-01 03:56:11 PM  

MuonNeutrino: Why Would I Read the Article: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting. What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party Democrats The United States

F*ck you, I got mine.
 
2013-03-01 03:56:18 PM  

Bigdogdaddy: The derp will be epic on this thread.

Continue please.

[farm2.staticflickr.com image 640x414]


Oooh, you brought kettle corn.  And M&M's. And gumdrops. And apple rings.

Hello, new best friend.
 
2013-03-01 03:57:57 PM  

Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.


It seems like the structural setup in Detroit makes Bing much weaker than a big-city mayor typically is.  So it would make sense to (essentially) give him the power and let him run with it.
 
2013-03-01 03:59:01 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party


Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.
 
2013-03-01 04:00:09 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.

It seems like the structural setup in Detroit makes Bing much weaker than a big-city mayor typically is.  So it would make sense to (essentially) give him the power and let him run with it.


Agreed. I've been keeping an ear out for more stuff on the Detroit Blight Authority, but no new news there. I wonder if it'll be affected by this.
 
2013-03-01 04:01:21 PM  

meyerkev: just stop servicing entire neighborhoods.


Dude, that is what I told your Mom.

/Sorry, had to
 
2013-03-01 04:01:35 PM  

Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.


There was one councilman in the 1980s, briefly.  And the Republican Convention was held in Detroit in 1980.   Really.
 
2013-03-01 04:01:40 PM  
This is what happens when Red Wings are not guaranteed to make the playoffs.
 
2013-03-01 04:02:08 PM  

Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.


It's also funny (infuriating) when the news says things like "Romney visited Detroit today, to talk to people at Chrysler headquarters."

For those of you not in the know, that's nowhere near Detroit. Not even close, geographically, financially, or socially.
 
2013-03-01 04:03:19 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: To be fair, that one side has had explicit power in the area is testament that a two party system that work hand in hand towards a centrist compromise is critical to our democracy.


I like the cut of your jib.
 
2013-03-01 04:04:31 PM  

Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?


As they saying goes "As you sow, so shall you reap."

Of course, it sucks worse to be the rest of us since we'll have to bail them out.
 
2013-03-01 04:04:36 PM  
All this aside, I really want to know what they are going to do with all the brownfields and other toxic sites that the captains of industry abandoned as manufacturing fled Detroit.
 
2013-03-01 04:04:38 PM  

Aidan: JohnAnnArbor: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.

It seems like the structural setup in Detroit makes Bing much weaker than a big-city mayor typically is.  So it would make sense to (essentially) give him the power and let him run with it.

Agreed. I've been keeping an ear out for more stuff on the Detroit Blight Authority, but no new news there. I wonder if it'll be affected by this.


The idea of essentially abandoning entire neighborhoods (to allow services to be turned off) has merit, but will be very difficult to actually do, for a number of very good reasons (people don't want to move, property-ownership issues, etc.).  But drastic times call for at least looking at drastic solutions.

FYI for outsiders: Detroit had almost 2 million people in 1960 and has around 750,000 now.
 
2013-03-01 04:06:26 PM  

ddam: This is what happens when Red Wings are not guaranteed to make the playoffs.


Hey they are moving up in the power rankings.

I mean not that I care, Im a Chicago fan so I am contractually obligated to hate St Louis more
 
2013-03-01 04:06:34 PM  

meat0918: All this aside, I really want to know what they are going to do with all the brownfields and other toxic sites that the captains of industry abandoned as manufacturing fled Detroit.


I'm not certain, but I was told that many of them simply sit vacant with the expectation that a buyer would have to pay the full amount to do cleanup.

I'd be very happy to be wrong, though!
 
2013-03-01 04:06:46 PM  
Every time I read about Detroit I am amazed the same thing didn't happen to  Pittsburgh.  Pittsburgh had the same drastic loss in manufacturing and population, probably worse, in fact, but somehow didn't turn into a hell-hole.  And we did it with people we elected ourselves!
 
2013-03-01 04:07:39 PM  

meat0918: All this aside, I really want to know what they are going to do with all the brownfields and other toxic sites that the captains of industry abandoned as manufacturing fled Detroit.


Heck, how about all the smaller stuff?  Old dry cleaners, electronic parts plants, etc.......  I bet mining the old phone directories and testing soil would find a LOT of junk.  And if "urban farming" is to happen, you'd better do your soil testing first!

Uniroyal's getting cleaned up near the Belle Isle bridge, but that's just one project.
 
2013-03-01 04:08:48 PM  

Aidan: Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.

It's also funny (infuriating) when the news says things like "Romney visited Detroit today, to talk to people at Chrysler headquarters."

For those of you not in the know, that's nowhere near Detroit. Not even close, geographically, financially, or socially.


Some people use the term "Detroit" to mean "the domestic auto industry".  It's like how people use the term "Hollywood" to mean "the film industry", even though there is only minimal film production in Hollywood itself.
 
2013-03-01 04:09:02 PM  
robotmonkeys.net
 
2013-03-01 04:09:17 PM  

Aidan: I'm not certain, but I was told that many of them simply sit vacant with the expectation that a buyer would have to pay the full amount to do cleanup.

I'd be very happy to be wrong, though!


There are already several EPA superfund sites in Michigan and there are a bevy of others to try and fix those
 
2013-03-01 04:10:11 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party


so how iis it that all the elected in the city are dark democrates?
 
2013-03-01 04:11:25 PM  
Is it too late to give it back to the Indians?
How about the French?
 
2013-03-01 04:12:04 PM  

aerojockey: Every time I read about Detroit I am amazed the same thing didn't happen to  Pittsburgh.  Pittsburgh had the same drastic loss in manufacturing and population, probably worse, in fact, but somehow didn't turn into a hell-hole.  And we did it with people we elected ourselves!


It didn't happen in Cleveland, either.  Detroit is a special kind of shiat-hole.

Use eminent domain.  Take over the land.  Move the families.  Pay for it by moving them to a better house in a different neighborhood.  Scrap everything.  Sell the land to agribusiness, found new farmer's markets that have locally sourced produce.

Basically, it's like taking all the stuff in Sim City 2000 where you've got so many bonds that you can't finance anything more and have to bulldoze everything.
 
2013-03-01 04:12:13 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Aidan: I'm not certain, but I was told that many of them simply sit vacant with the expectation that a buyer would have to pay the full amount to do cleanup.

I'd be very happy to be wrong, though!

There are already several EPA superfund sites in Michigan and there are a bevy of others to try and fix those


I thought though that brownfields are typically not polluted enough to warrant Superfund monies.  The EPA has an entire separate branch to deal with brownfields. http://www.epa.gov/brownfields/

//And here is where you can look up your local Superfund sites http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/
 
2013-03-01 04:13:50 PM  
Detroit? I'd buy that for a dollar.
 
2013-03-01 04:13:59 PM  

meat0918: I thought though that brownfields are typically not polluted enough to warrant Superfund monies. The EPA has an entire separate branch to deal with brownfields. http://www.epa.gov/brownfields/

//And here is where you can look up your local Superfund sites http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/


As they demolish and clear land last I heard there was a push to collectively gather many of the brown sites into one large superfund because of the total land area of the pollution not necessarily the amount and breadth.

It was rejected several years back but given the increase in razed land I think they are going to try to propose it again
 
2013-03-01 04:15:03 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: meat0918: I thought though that brownfields are typically not polluted enough to warrant Superfund monies. The EPA has an entire separate branch to deal with brownfields. http://www.epa.gov/brownfields/

//And here is where you can look up your local Superfund sites http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/

As they demolish and clear land last I heard there was a push to collectively gather many of the brown sites into one large superfund because of the total land area of the pollution not necessarily the amount and breadth.

It was rejected several years back but given the increase in razed land I think they are going to try to propose it again


That would be amazing.

//Former Michigan resident.
 
2013-03-01 04:15:05 PM  
If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.
 
2013-03-01 04:15:06 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?

Canada's not buying.


It is our best chance of winning a Stanley Cup.....
 
2013-03-01 04:16:10 PM  

yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.


To be fair, you'd have to find a case where such a situation exists. Can you? I can point to dozens of cities, including the one nearest to me (Harrisburg, PA), that have been savaged by the policies of their leaders. With very few exceptions, they are all governed by Democrats.

Is that a reflection of the party as a whole or the mores of the locales in question? Maybe a little bit of both. But mostly it's the failure of the electorate to vote for people who will govern responsibly instead of running on ridiculous populism and promises that they simply cannot keep without driving the city into the ground, which they then invariably do.
 
2013-03-01 04:16:58 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.


hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?
 
2013-03-01 04:18:22 PM  

Vance Uppercut: JohnAnnArbor: Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?

Canada's not buying.

It is our best chance of winning a Stanley Cup.....


Buy the tunnel and enough land to connect it to Joe Louis Arena.
 
2013-03-01 04:19:27 PM  

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


Sure, because state constitutions and the US Constitution are exactly the same.
 
2013-03-01 04:20:09 PM  

meat0918: That would be amazing.

//Former Michigan resident.


Its a long shot, but given the shiat hole Detroit has dug themselves into it could honestly be a nice turn around.
 
2013-03-01 04:20:52 PM  

JustGetItRight: Sure, because state constitutions and the US Constitution are exactly the same.


Its not like our representatives read them to begin with
 
2013-03-01 04:21:08 PM  

birdboy2000: If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.


The states don't exist at the pleasure of the federal government. Municipalities generally exist at the pleasure of the state government.
 
2013-03-01 04:21:57 PM  
Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.
 
2013-03-01 04:23:49 PM  

Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.


Shermans don't have thick enough armor and they're gasoline burners.

A Republican attempting to enter Detroit will need at least an up-gunned M-48. but I'd go late model M-60 just to be sure.
 
2013-03-01 04:26:54 PM  

yeegrek: Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.


If governing yourself was the criterion Appalachia would already be under National Guard occupation.
 
2013-03-01 04:26:59 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-01 04:27:46 PM  

Hobodeluxe: JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.

hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?


Here and here.  Note the second story where the principal stole AP test fees from students.
 
2013-03-01 04:28:10 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.


And after all the unions have done for that city.
 
2013-03-01 04:29:13 PM  

Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.


What makes you think Bing would be any better as emergency manager?  He's been mayor for three years, and has had a revolving door of executive staff the entire time!  My biggest complaint against Bing is that he needed to be decisive from DAY ONE, yet he came into office with no clue of how bad things were, and no plan on how to fix them.  This "One Detroit" nonsense was a multi year long consensus project:  ask the citizens what they want, when all the citizens want to do is shout down anyone who has an idea that doesn't involve getting phantom money that the state "owes" the city.

What is also missing from this discussion is that the City has been under a "Consent Agreement" since about last April.  The city should have been under an emergency manager from that time forward, but Gov. Snyder naively gave the city one more chance to get its house in order.   Now we are another two billion deeper in debt with nothing to show for it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the city ends up in Chapter 9 bankruptcy.  The biggest problem I see with that is that all of the bond holders have their bonds guaranteed by the pension funds.  In other words, if the city defaults, the rich people who bought the muni bonds will be made whole, while the working stiffs will lose their pensions.  I am no fan of the Detroit civil service, but still...

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.
 
2013-03-01 04:30:57 PM  

YixilTesiphon: Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 234x240]


Good map.  Snyder is governor of the whole state, and he takes that seriously.   The state includes Detroit.
 
2013-03-01 04:31:08 PM  
fark Jones!
 
2013-03-01 04:31:29 PM  

Hobodeluxe: JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.

hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?


I found it pretty easily.

http://detroitk12.org/admin/inspector_general/docs/audit_reports/200 9_ Annual_Report.pdf

The audit found that the Office lacked inventory procedures and had limited controls over its inventory including weapons. In conducting a physical inventory, the OAG found:

160 blackberry phones new in the box,
97 hand held two-way phones, new in the box
21 metal detectors
1872 new master locks
1870 video tapes
132 new safety kits
586 motion detectors
501 switch boxes
11 motorcycles (with limited mileage)
1996 Chevrolet Caprice Classic


They DID report they didn't find any "Ghost" employees, though. So not sure where that came from.
 
2013-03-01 04:32:25 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.

It seems like the structural setup in Detroit makes Bing much weaker than a big-city mayor typically is.  So it would make sense to (essentially) give him the power and let him run with it.


ts2.mm.bing.net
 
2013-03-01 04:32:27 PM  

The Ice Cream Man: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.

What makes you think Bing would be any better as emergency manager?  He's been mayor for three years, and has had a revolving door of executive staff the entire time!  My biggest complaint against Bing is that he needed to be decisive from DAY ONE, yet he came into office with no clue of how bad things were, and no plan on how to fix them.  This "One Detroit" nonsense was a multi year long consensus project:  ask the citizens what they want, when all the citizens want to do is shout down anyone who has an idea that doesn't involve getting phantom money that the state "owes" the city.

What is also missing from this discussion is that the City has been under a "Consent Agreement" since about last April.  The city should have been under an emergency manager from that time forward, but Gov. Snyder naively gave the city one more chance to get its house in order.   Now we are another two billion deeper in debt with nothing to show for it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the city ends up in Chapter 9 bankruptcy.  The biggest problem I see with that is that all of the bond holders have their bonds guaranteed by the pension funds.  In other words, if the city defaults, the rich people who bought the muni bonds will be made whole, while the working stiffs will lose their pensions.  I am no fan of the Detroit civil service, but still...

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.


He was restricted by city charter.  As EFM he would not be.
 
2013-03-01 04:33:44 PM  

Southern100: Hobodeluxe: JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.

hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?

I found it pretty easily.

http://detroitk12.org/admin/inspector_general/docs/audit_reports/200 9_ Annual_Report.pdf

The audit found that the Office lacked inventory procedures and had limited controls over its inventory including weapons. In conducting a physical inventory, the OAG found:

160 blackberry phones new in the box,
97 hand held two-way phones, new in the box
21 metal detectors
1872 new master locks
1870 video tapes
132 new safety kits
586 motion detectors
501 switch boxes
11 motorcycles (with limited mileage)
1996 Chevrolet Caprice Classic

They DID report they didn't find any "Ghost" employees, though. So not sure where that came from.


Funny, my bad there.  I was sure I had heard it.  That's what happens when synapses age, I guess.  (I still think the idea of having poeple show up to pick up the checks was a brilliant move.)
 
2013-03-01 04:34:25 PM  

FARK rebel soldier: JohnAnnArbor: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

I'd like to see that, tentatively. I'd like to know what exactly Bing would do given more power. I know he's done as much as he could, but is that because his hands are tied or because he's just not good enough? I THINK it's the former, but I'm not certain.

It seems like the structural setup in Detroit makes Bing much weaker than a big-city mayor typically is.  So it would make sense to (essentially) give him the power and let him run with it.

[ts2.mm.bing.net image 221x121]


I'm guessing Bing would like to be on a remote island right about now.
 
2013-03-01 04:34:40 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.


And Detroit is a corrupt shiathole that has been leeching off the state for far too long.  If they want state money, it is time they play by the state's rules.  There is a big difference between taking out the political scumbags in Detroit via a manager and turning all the city's workers into serfs.

The Detroit City Council has been refusing all logical steps to shrink the size of the city, despite the shrinkage in population, and after 14 billion dollars worth of debt it needs to end.
 
2013-03-01 04:34:45 PM  
Detroit?

Just let it go, man.

It's gone.
 
2013-03-01 04:35:43 PM  
How many Detroit city council members will be crying racism?
 
2013-03-01 04:35:54 PM  

Amos Quito: Detroit?

Just let it go, man.

It's gone.


People have voted with their feet for decades.  It's been staggeringly sad to watch.
 
2013-03-01 04:36:33 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: The Ice Cream Man: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.

He was restricted by city charter.  As EFM he would not be.


Leaders lead.  Pretenders make excuses.
 
2013-03-01 04:37:02 PM  
When the Little Rock School District proved to be incompetent at integrating their schools, it was OK for Eisenhower to send in Emergency Managers called the 101st Airborne.
 
2013-03-01 04:37:18 PM  

kmfjd: How many Detroit city council members will be crying racism?


Not all.  Some do, though, when waking up, getting coffee, showing up at the office, etc.  Basically continuously.  Sad and incredibly counterproductive, as well as sadly effective.
 
2013-03-01 04:37:22 PM  
This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.
 
2013-03-01 04:39:03 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: kmfjd: How many Detroit city council members will be crying racism?

Not all.  Some do, though, when waking up, getting coffee, showing up at the office, etc.  Basically continuously.  Sad and incredibly counterproductive, as well as sadly effective.


The President has already hint at it and said if it isn't a black person, the race card is getting played.  It's said how many good ideas die in Detroit, simply because the white folk up in Oakland County support it, so it must be the work of the devil.

/also hopefully AATA is able to avoid this SE Michigan transit authority bullshiat that Snyder proposes
 
2013-03-01 04:40:30 PM  

kmfjd: How many Detroit city council members will be crying racism?


I don't know. The answer depends on how many there are.
 
2013-03-01 04:40:58 PM  

ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.

The Ice Cream Man: JohnAnnArbor: The Ice Cream Man: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.

He was restricted by city charter.  As EFM he would not be.

Leaders lead.  Pretenders make excuses.


Dude, he got sued basically continuously by the unions, the city council and the Detroit law office itself for the decisions he tried to implement.  It's not like he had a lot of room to maneuver.
 
2013-03-01 04:41:09 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Funny, my bad there.  I was sure I had heard it.  That's what happens when synapses age, I guess.  (I still think the idea of having poeple show up to pick up the checks was a brilliant move.)


According to the report, it was "reported nationally on CNN" (that there were Ghost employees on the payroll), but the audit itself failed to turn any up. So you probably read it on CNN or another news site at the time (before the audit was completed).. you know news organizations, they love to sensationalize, but they never come back later and go "we misreported something 6 months ago, he's what REALLY happened.." :)
 
2013-03-01 04:41:09 PM  

ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.


Yup, the City Council dug their own graves when they went all in against Bing's plans to shrink the city's service footprint.  Everyone knew it had to be done, the Mayor of the Detroit had a reasonable proposal on the table, and the farkers refused out of a fear it might remotely impact their corrupt little fiefdoms.  So now Lansing is going to do it.  Basically they proved even if an intelligent and capable executive is elected, the City Council will fark it all up.
 
2013-03-01 04:42:47 PM  

Southern100: JohnAnnArbor: Funny, my bad there.  I was sure I had heard it.  That's what happens when synapses age, I guess.  (I still think the idea of having poeple show up to pick up the checks was a brilliant move.)

According to the report, it was "reported nationally on CNN" (that there were Ghost employees on the payroll), but the audit itself failed to turn any up. So you probably read it on CNN or another news site at the time (before the audit was completed).. you know news organizations, they love to sensationalize, but they never come back later and go "we misreported something 6 months ago, he's what REALLY happened.." :)


Original report, page 1A.  Correction that invalidated it, page 34D..........
 
2013-03-01 04:45:47 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.


But it was okay when Granholm did it.
 
2013-03-01 04:46:22 PM  
Dismantle the rest of the gutted buildings.  Save the wood and bricks and reuse them.  Set up urban agriculture on all the clapped out land plats in the ghettos. Plant food.  Repurpose old factories that are full of rats and frozen water and crack pipes for shelter for the massively homeless and unemployed.  Shave down the auto industry to scale and support businesses that are making a profit.

Hire locally.  Promote the arts and make sure that businesses that have boards full of bloated, overpaid dipweeds pay their taxes. Give out free birth control and sexual health and family planning classes.  You just might not be a post apocalypse film location in 20 years. But if you kick the ladder away, stop pissing and moaning that nobody wants to acquire the necessary education to climb it.

Growing food is the second oldest industry on earth and the land and the economy of the area no longer supports private housing and industry.  You closed up the wage slavery shops and moved them to where there are cheaper slaves, but if you think there's no back end costs, you're deluded.

Wear the shoes that fit, start over and dance with who brung ya.  Endless growth is over.  Finis.  It never existed and the septic tank you're now trying to make habitable again is the end game of taking and putting nothing back and pulling the ripcord when the bottom falls out.  You've been treating working people like serfs and subsistence farmers for decades.  It's time to knock together some sharecropper shacks, toilets, showers and cheap heat and let the other shoe drop. You wanted to be the king amongst peasants. Touchdown.  Now start feeding and clothing your subjects before they burn your castles down.  Cause sending in more fools in funny hats to move money around to people who don't need it isn't going to reboot a model that no longer has any bearing on the actual economy of the third millennium and the people living 6 to a flat and serving you coffee will lose interest in watching your BMW roll by every day, eventually.  Nobody who can see the world they're shuttered out of is going to be content to call living a group home of scullery maids and taxi dance butlers a life.  You hear that bell?
 
2013-03-01 04:46:38 PM  

Southern100: Hobodeluxe: JohnAnnArbor: I wonder if the EFM will force all Detroit municipal employees to show up one payday to pick up their checks, in person.  The Detroit public schools EFM did that and DOZENS could not be found--fraudulent employees, drawing money out of the system.

He also found warehouses full of unused equipment.  From Blackberries to MOTORCYCLES. All paid for with $$ that was supposed to go to Detroit classrooms.

The School Board apparently thinks that's all OK, because they're the ones that allowed it.

hmm I tried to google that and came up with squat. you have a link to support that allegation?

I found it pretty easily.

http://detroitk12.org/admin/inspector_general/docs/audit_reports/200 9_ Annual_Report.pdf

The audit found that the Office lacked inventory procedures and had limited controls over its inventory including weapons. In conducting a physical inventory, the OAG found:

160 blackberry phones new in the box,
97 hand held two-way phones, new in the box
21 metal detectors
1872 new master locks
1870 video tapes
132 new safety kits
586 motion detectors
501 switch boxes
11 motorcycles (with limited mileage)
1996 Chevrolet Caprice Classic

They DID report they didn't find any "Ghost" employees, though. So not sure where that came from.


yeah that's what I was googling was the fraudulent employees. the warehouse with the unused equipment could be stuff they bought and were going to eventually use. they just bought in bulk to get a lower price.
 
2013-03-01 04:50:34 PM  
What I'm curious about...has some scam artist created a corporation to to this yet? If not, why not, and how do I set that up? You know this will be the go to model for all red states to use on democratic leaning urban areas. There is a LOT of $$$$ waiting to be pilfered from those lucky citizens.
 
2013-03-01 04:52:21 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party


In Detroit.  Ha.
 
2013-03-01 04:53:48 PM  
Do you have the new 6000 SUX?  Complete with barcode license plate (never noticed that before, eh?)
pics.imcdb.org
 
2013-03-01 04:56:05 PM  

ha-ha-guy: ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.

Yup, the City Council dug their own graves when they went all in against Bing's plans to shrink the city's service footprint.  Everyone knew it had to be done, the Mayor of the Detroit had a reasonable proposal on the table, and the farkers refused out of a fear it might remotely impact their corrupt little fiefdoms.  So now Lansing is going to do it.  Basically they proved even if an intelligent and capable executive is elected, the City Council will fark it all up.


This and this.

I think the emergency manager will help a lot.  The last one we had (Flint), had the power to remove elected officials all together.  Out of office and removed the office as well, so I can't wait to hear the shake up this will bring.  Our police and fire unions learned the EM is not some push over mayor worrying over reelections.  I think the EM went a little too far in some aspects, but something has to be done somewhere to get their attention.  I am sure the first thing gone off Detroit's plate will be Belle Isle, that was a gift of a deal and the council members wanted more money.  Those idiots indeed.  Just unloading that floating turd so MI can get it back to what it was 20 years ago, will mean millions on top of what MI offered Detroit.  That last cart race held there made me cry and laugh.  You know it bothered Snyder and that is probably why he is trying to repair Belle Isle.  I don't usually like Snyder, but when I do it is usually good.
 
2013-03-01 04:57:49 PM  

bunner: Growing food is the second oldest industry on earth and the land and the economy of the area no longer supports private housing and industry. You closed up the wage slavery shops and moved them to where there are cheaper slaves, but if you think there's no back end costs, you're deluded.



I smell the stench of the Politicians that for decades have sold us down the river via traitorous trade policies - and the Corporats and Banksters that bought them.
 
2013-03-01 04:59:47 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.

To be fair, you'd have to find a case where such a situation exists. Can you? I can point to dozens of cities, including the one nearest to me (Harrisburg, PA), that have been savaged by the policies of their leaders. With very few exceptions, they are all governed by Democrats.

Is that a reflection of the party as a whole or the mores of the locales in question? Maybe a little bit of both. But mostly it's the failure of the electorate to vote for people who will govern responsibly instead of running on ridiculous populism and promises that they simply cannot keep without driving the city into the ground, which they then invariably do.


Fair questions.  I do think that overall, urban voters (of all colors) look to the Dems as the only realistic choice, fairly or unfairly.  I do think the "Real Americans in Flyover Country" rhetoric doesn't help. I would argue that this leaves whatever Dem left at the top of the hill after the leadership battles end as the only possible choice.  Hardly survival of the fittest.

For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit.  If so, the party should be nuked from space.  You see at all levels what happens when voters consider one party to be viable, and the leadership battles are decided by money spent, not quality of ideas.  Is Michael Bloomberg the smartest guy in New York?  Probably not, but no one is going to outspend him.  Then at the federal level, you have Michelle Bachmann, Louie Gohmert, Paul Broun, I could go on.  I would argue that it's less about party policies, than the deeply, deeply flawed process of leadership selection.
 
2013-03-01 04:59:54 PM  

Thresher: Do you have the new 6000 SUX?  Complete with barcode license plate (never noticed that before, eh?)
[pics.imcdb.org image 850x478]


So you have heard of the Pontiac 6000 SUX.  You should've got the Pontiac 6000 LE, or as I have also heard it called the 'goolie'.
 
2013-03-01 05:00:07 PM  

birdboy2000: If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.


1) States vs. Feds.  States have a lot more leeway.
2) Something like 40% of the state lives in or around Detroit.  As Detroit goes, so goes the big fat anchor around Michigan's neck.
3) Detroit's so far gone with so much ingrained corruption and other problems, that bringing in an outsider who can say FU with middle fingers held high (or as I've mentioned: Bing) is probably the only real way forwards.

/Family lives near there, and general consensus (other than the token liberals) is: "It's about time."
//Also, Livonia stopped funding road maintenance or road clearing which is nice.
 
2013-03-01 05:00:55 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?

Canada's not buying.


Canadians always brag about how "multi-cultural" Canada is.

Buying Detroit would double their diversity overnight.
 
2013-03-01 05:01:59 PM  

Amos Quito: bunner: Growing food is the second oldest industry on earth and the land and the economy of the area no longer supports private housing and industry. You closed up the wage slavery shops and moved them to where there are cheaper slaves, but if you think there's no back end costs, you're deluded.


I smell the stench of the Politicians that for decades have sold us down the river via traitorous trade policies - and the Corporats and Banksters that bought them.


Everybody knows the party is over and the people who have access to the kitchen are just trying to empty all the leftovers and silverware into their trunk before the lights go out.  There is no government, there are no job creators, the is no "viable emergency management plan".  This is the fire sale.  And it's gonna happen while we argue wither each other over which smart phone is better, who makes the coolest spinning rims and whether or not McDonald's is better than Burger King.  Business plans.  Don't be on the ass end of them.
 
2013-03-01 05:02:17 PM  

toby34a: aerojockey: Every time I read about Detroit I am amazed the same thing didn't happen to  Pittsburgh.  Pittsburgh had the same drastic loss in manufacturing and population, probably worse, in fact, but somehow didn't turn into a hell-hole.  And we did it with people we elected ourselves!

It didn't happen in Cleveland, either.


Well, yes, it didn't make Cleveland any more of a shiat-hole than it already was, if that's what you mean,
 
2013-03-01 05:02:38 PM  

iheartscotch: Can we all just admit that, combined with many other factors; rampant corruption, cronyism, shear incompetence and chronic mismanagement has driven the once great city Nation of Detroit the U.S.A. to the equivalent of a third world hell hole?

/ and no one in politics is innocent

FFTFYD
 
2013-03-01 05:03:40 PM  

Hobodeluxe: yeah that's what I was googling was the fraudulent employees. the warehouse with the unused equipment could be stuff they bought and were going to eventually use. they just bought in bulk to get a lower price.


I just read the entire report - it's an interesting read, but probably not something that isn't happening in hundreds of other school districts nationwide.  Just about every week or two there's a story on our local news about how some school administrator in the local school district got caught by an undercover camera with his (or her) hand in the cookie jar..
 
2013-03-01 05:05:01 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: ddam: This is what happens when Red Wings are not guaranteed to make the playoffs.

Hey they are moving up in the power rankings.

I mean not that I care, Im a Chicago fan so I am contractually obligated to hate St Louis more


It is in your best interest to pick on an American team with fewer Stanley Cups than you have. The Blues are the Bills of the NHL.

\The Wings are the Steelers
 
2013-03-01 05:05:58 PM  
iheartscotch: Can we all just admit that, combined with many other factors; rampant corruption, cronyism, shear incompetence and chronic mismanagement has driven the once great city Nation of Detroit the U.S.A. to the equivalent of a third world hell hole?

You know how in those mob movies, they get this really nice joint and milk it dry and then bust it out and threaten to shoot anybody who complains?  Ah ha ha.  Ever get the feeling you've  been cheated?
 
2013-03-01 05:06:39 PM  
Corrupt, bigoted, racist black politicians?
onemansblog.com
 
2013-03-01 05:08:35 PM  

birdboy2000: If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.


Of Michigan's large Democrat-controlled cities, only Ann Arbor isn't the equivalent of a failed-state.

Hell, even some of the tiny towns are Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome-levels of hopeless.
 
2013-03-01 05:08:43 PM  
The growth is over.  Over.  The American dream has been moved.  The new American success story is to be a very astute chiseler, grab what you can before they repo the joint and stay off the radar.  That's why that airbrushed eagle is crying.
 
2013-03-01 05:09:54 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party


The blame for this farkup lies solely with the Democrats.  They have had complete control of Detroit for decades.
 
2013-03-01 05:10:10 PM  

yeegrek: For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit. If so, the party should be nuked from space. You see at all levels what happens when voters consider one party to be viable, and the leadership battles are decided by money spent, not quality of ideas. Is Michael Bloomberg the smartest guy in New York? Probably not, but no one is going to outspend him. Then at the federal level, you have Michelle Bachmann, Louie Gohmert, Paul Broun, I could go on. I would argue that it's less about party policies, than the deeply, deeply flawed process of leadership selection.


The conflict you're dealing with goes away when you realize that the parties, for all of their public political positions, are simply an apparatus to nominate people. What I suspect happened was that the Democrats long ago destroyed the Republicans for justifiable reasons, and now they are the only game in town. As a result, the "Democratic Party" in places like Detroit is nothing more than the way to nominate a candidate, since the erstwhile opposition is long gone and will never re-establish itself.

Detroit politics is like San Angeles' food choices: now all restaurants are Taco Bell.
 
2013-03-01 05:11:40 PM  

The Ice Cream Man: JohnAnnArbor: The Ice Cream Man: Aidan: meyerkev: Please let it be Bing.

Bing for emergency manager?  He still can't decide if he wants to run for re-election yet, and the deadline for filing is coming up.  He's better suited to be manager for Waffle House.

He was restricted by city charter.  As EFM he would not be.

Leaders lead.  Pretenders make excuses.


Detroit has a weak-mayor structure. It's the city council that has power.
 
2013-03-01 05:12:13 PM  

Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid.

"Liberal", "Conservative"  "Democrat" and "Republican" are

a b s o l u t e l y

m e a n i n g l e s s .



You're welcome.
 
2013-03-01 05:13:10 PM  

ha-ha-guy: ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.

Yup, the City Council dug their own graves when they went all in against Bing's plans to shrink the city's service footprint.  Everyone knew it had to be done, the Mayor of the Detroit had a reasonable proposal on the table, and the farkers refused out of a fear it might remotely impact their corrupt little fiefdoms.  So now Lansing is going to do it.  Basically they proved even if an intelligent and capable executive is elected, the City Council will fark it all up.


The city council started digging their grave when Coleman Young let them ransack the place for their own personal gains. It's just been going down from there.

Grew up in the Oakland Co. suburbs and haven't been back in years but still breaks my heart to see it has become this bad. Is Bing the right solution though? I think it would be interesting to see a business/finance type come in and clean up the books.
 
2013-03-01 05:13:45 PM  

IgG4: So much for Democracy. Well, we had a good run...


Considering how Detroit lost more than half its population over the last 50 years, I wouldn't  call that a good run.  Also since the leaders of Detroit have so royally farked it up over the last 50 years, the state has had to appoint someone to manage the city's finances.  The people of Detroit have well proven that they are incapable of finding someone.
 
2013-03-01 05:14:19 PM  

bunner: Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid.

"Liberal", "Conservative"  "Democrat" and "Republican" are

a b s o l u t e l y

m e a n i n g l e s s .


You're welcome.


You:
 
2013-03-01 05:14:58 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?

Meh, it keeps the Canucks on their side of the Detroit River.


Judging by the looks of Windsor, Ontario vs Detroit, the Canadians taking over would be a vast improvement.
 
2013-03-01 05:15:00 PM  

Why Would I Read the Article: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting. What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party Democrats

Politicians
 
2013-03-01 05:16:36 PM  

yeegrek: For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit.


You know how Kilpatrick won? (Besides manipulation by his mother) Voters in Detroit wanted a mayor who was more black than Dennis Archer.

The joke was on them. They got one.
 
2013-03-01 05:18:01 PM  

killershark: ha-ha-guy: ds615: This is a good thing.  Everyone that knows anything about it agrees.
The only people that don't think so is the city council, but they're corrupt idiots so their opinion doesn't matter.

/Live just North of it.
// Would sell the whole damn thing to OPC, China, or the Girls Scouts for a dollar. Whichever offers first.

Yup, the City Council dug their own graves when they went all in against Bing's plans to shrink the city's service footprint.  Everyone knew it had to be done, the Mayor of the Detroit had a reasonable proposal on the table, and the farkers refused out of a fear it might remotely impact their corrupt little fiefdoms.  So now Lansing is going to do it.  Basically they proved even if an intelligent and capable executive is elected, the City Council will fark it all up.

The city council started digging their grave when Coleman Young let them ransack the place for their own personal gains. It's just been going down from there.

Grew up in the Oakland Co. suburbs and haven't been back in years but still breaks my heart to see it has become this bad. Is Bing the right solution though? I think it would be interesting to see a business/finance type come in and clean up the books.


Bing's a businessman.
 
2013-03-01 05:18:21 PM  
Wasn't Detroit bailed out once already? Guess it takes a lot time and money to fix 50 years of democrat corruption..
 
2013-03-01 05:18:58 PM  

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


Maybe so, maybe not, but the constitution does not allow the feds to remove and replace state officials they disagree with.  Michigan law does allow the state to take over the finances of a city when that city has gotten itself into the sort of mess Detroit has.  Also the takeover is temporary.  The article said the appointee would hold the job for 18 months.
 
2013-03-01 05:19:25 PM  
"I look at today as a sad day, a day I wish had never happened in the history of Detroit, but also a day of optimism and promise," Snyder said.

What the fark is he optimistic about? Are they going to wall off the city a la Escape from New York or something?
 
2013-03-01 05:20:53 PM  

ha-ha-guy: JohnAnnArbor: kmfjd: How many Detroit city council members will be crying racism?

Not all.  Some do, though, when waking up, getting coffee, showing up at the office, etc.  Basically continuously.  Sad and incredibly counterproductive, as well as sadly effective.

The President has already hint at it and said if it isn't a black person, the race card is getting played.  It's said how many good ideas die in Detroit, simply because the white folk up in Oakland County support it, so it must be the work of the devil.

/also hopefully AATA is able to avoid this SE Michigan transit authority bullshiat that Snyder proposes


shiat, if Snyder wanted to play political hardball, he'd nominate Obama as manager. Anyone who takes it on is doomed to fail.
 
2013-03-01 05:20:57 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: "I look at today as a sad day, a day I wish had never happened in the history of Detroit, but also a day of optimism and promise," Snyder said.

What the fark is he optimistic about? Are they going to wall off the city a la Escape from New York or something?


There's nowhere to go but up.
 
2013-03-01 05:22:24 PM  
Everyone knows exactly what is wrong with Detroit.

Can't solve the problem until the problem is allowed to be recognized.
 
2013-03-01 05:23:42 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.


The state of Michigan will end up having to bail out Detroit.  Remember the golden rule.  He who has the gold makes the rules.  Also  as someone else said.  State governments don't exist at the pleasure of the federal government.  City governments usually do exist at the pleasure of the state governments.  Also the city of Detroit farked up big time.  By doing so, they have proven they're not capable of running their own finances.
 
2013-03-01 05:27:18 PM  

This text is now purple: yeegrek: For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit.

You know how Kilpatrick won? (Besides manipulation by his mother) Voters in Detroit wanted a mayor who was more black than Dennis Archer.

The joke was on them. They got one.


Would you f*ckers stop talking about him?  I hate when that douche bag makes my inbox blow up with notices.
 
2013-03-01 05:30:08 PM  

kwame: This text is now purple: yeegrek: For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit.

You know how Kilpatrick won? (Besides manipulation by his mother) Voters in Detroit wanted a mayor who was more black than Dennis Archer.

The joke was on them. They got one.

Would you f*ckers stop talking about him?  I hate when that douche bag makes my inbox blow up with notices.


He's about to get convicted.  Get ready.
 
2013-03-01 05:30:59 PM  

I Like Shiny Things: Everyone knows exactly what is wrong with Detroit.

Can't solve the problem until the problem is allowed to be recognized.


This book talks about that very thing
i26.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-01 05:35:59 PM  

PaLarkin: The article said the appointee would hold the job for 18 months.


What happens if there are still huge problems after 18 months?  New Manager appointed, or elected officials resume?
 
2013-03-01 05:37:03 PM  

Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party


Yeah, it's heavy tea party voting cities that are festering hell holes and not democratic voting urban centers. You're right on the money.
 
2013-03-01 05:38:23 PM  
I have no problem with Detroit's elected officials continuing to turn the city into more of a wasteland then it already is just as long as none of my federal tax money goes to bailing them out.
 
2013-03-01 05:45:37 PM  
Good news everyone!

You (yes YOU) can be a proud homeowner for just $100!!!

Difficulty: Detroit

http://www.businessinsider.com/cheap-detroit-homes-2011-6?op=1

(megarian representin'. The D...it's so cold in here)
 
2013-03-01 05:49:09 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: kwame: This text is now purple: yeegrek: For example, I cannot accept that Kwame Kilpatrick was the best possible Democrat in Detroit.

You know how Kilpatrick won? (Besides manipulation by his mother) Voters in Detroit wanted a mayor who was more black than Dennis Archer.

The joke was on them. They got one.

Would you f*ckers stop talking about him?  I hate when that douche bag makes my inbox blow up with notices.

He's about to get convicted.  Get ready.


For the third time. Kwame's a gem.
 
2013-03-01 05:50:18 PM  
You ever go to a party at a party center for like a reception or something and at the end of the night, everybody is half hammered and the floor is covered in sparkles and confetti and people are filling little plastic bags with prime rib and hors d'oeuvres and putting the leftover beer in their cars and somebody is standing there with a broom waiting for everybody to get the f*ck out and you wonder, "what becomes of this place when the party's over?"  That's where America is now.  This is just the most visible portion of the emperor's naked ass.
 
2013-03-01 05:57:42 PM  

Onkel Buck: This book talks about that very thing


I went to amazon and read the description and cringed harder than I have in a long time.  Then I hit up google to see if this guy is a crank and hit a wall of WP sites.  Think I'm going to take a pass on that one.
 
2013-03-01 06:01:33 PM  

megarian: Good news everyone!

You (yes YOU) can be a proud homeowner for just $100!!!

Difficulty: Detroit

http://www.businessinsider.com/cheap-detroit-homes-2011-6?op=1

(megarian representin'. The D...it's so cold in here)


)



T Baby is a national treasure and the next big thing to come out of The D!
 
2013-03-01 06:03:00 PM  
By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government
I thought that was what he was trying to do already
 
2013-03-01 06:05:26 PM  
If everybody from every extant political apparatus in your country is trying hard to distance themselves further away from the present state of affairs than the other, your country is probably on fire.
 
2013-03-01 06:06:49 PM  

IrateShadow: Onkel Buck: This book talks about that very thing

I went to amazon and read the description and cringed harder than I have in a long time.  Then I hit up google to see if this guy is a crank and hit a wall of WP sites.  Think I'm going to take a pass on that one.


Yeah, not helpful is the nicest thing I could say.
 
2013-03-01 06:06:56 PM  

Onkel Buck: megarian: Good news everyone!

You (yes YOU) can be a proud homeowner for just $100!!!

Difficulty: Detroit

http://www.businessinsider.com/cheap-detroit-homes-2011-6?op=1

(megarian representin'. The D...it's so cold in here)

)



T Baby is a national treasure and the next big thing to come out of The D!


Bahahaha oooh that gave me lulz. Unfortunate, unfortunate lulz.
 
2013-03-01 06:07:18 PM  

IrateShadow: Onkel Buck: This book talks about that very thing

I went to amazon and read the description and cringed harder than I have in a long time.  Then I hit up google to see if this guy is a crank and hit a wall of WP sites.  Think I'm going to take a pass on that one.


Fair enough, but you still have look at the leadership that got Detroit into the mess its in now and acknowledge all the corruption and terrible mismanagment. That shold make you cringe as well
 
2013-03-01 06:07:40 PM  

DogBoyTheCat: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government
I thought that was what he was trying to do already


That derp was dealt with up thread.  State Constitution != Federal Constitution
 
2013-03-01 06:08:04 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.

To be fair, you'd have to find a case where such a situation exists. Can you? I can point to dozens of cities, including the one nearest to me (Harrisburg, PA), that have been savaged by the policies of their leaders. With very few exceptions, they are all governed by Democrats.

Is that a reflection of the party as a whole or the mores of the locales in question? Maybe a little bit of both. But mostly it's the failure of the electorate to vote for people who will govern responsibly instead of running on ridiculous populism and promises that they simply cannot keep without driving the city into the ground, which they then invariably do.


With very few exceptions, all cities (successful or not) of any significant size are governed by Democrats and feature a majority Democratic voting population.  Note: Maybe not be valid in the former Confederate States of America.

Assuming you are not in the land of Dixie, here's how it works:

Rural areas are almost always Republican.
Suburbs that are next to rural areas are usually Republican.
Suburbs that are next to big cities are usually Democratic.
Big cities are almost always Democratic.

That is, the reason poorly run big cities are always run by Democrats is because they are big cities, not because they are poorly run.
 
2013-03-01 06:10:08 PM  
I hate the Emergency Financial Manager thing...

It's so anti-Democracy...
 
2013-03-01 06:10:10 PM  
www.annarbor.com
Miss Me Yet?
 
2013-03-01 06:13:18 PM  

Jodeo: [www.annarbor.com image 149x176]
Miss Me Yet?


No.  Nobody does.  Criminals selling themselves as the least reprehensible criminal, and therefore the best choice, is half the problem.  People thinking that's all the get is the other half.   :  )
 
2013-03-01 06:14:18 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: There's nowhere to go but up.


Get back to me in another 5-10 years.
 
2013-03-01 06:14:25 PM  
www.annarbor.com
Miss Me Yet?

Miss soap on a rope yet?
 
2013-03-01 06:18:48 PM  

lack of warmth: [www.annarbor.com image 149x176]
Miss Me Yet?

Miss soap on a rope yet?


Kwame a big dude, he'll be a viking before he is a victim
 
2013-03-01 06:21:51 PM  
The no-bid "privatization" contracts that will inevitably follow will be epic.  They'll make Chicago's horrible parking meters deal look like NewsCorp's deal for MySpace.  Tolls for sidewalks? Credit card swipers on water fountains? Melt down the Joe Louis statue for something "less intimidating and more business friendly"?

Anything is possible!
 
2013-03-01 06:23:52 PM  

Onkel Buck: Kwame a big dude, he'll be a viking before he is a victim


And the true patriotic Americans left will find a way to turn that into a 69.99 pay per view special with T-shirts and Kwame Cola.
 
2013-03-01 06:26:31 PM  
i26.photobucket.com
and all I got was a dead hooker
 
2013-03-01 06:29:01 PM  

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: The no-bid "privatization" contracts that will inevitably follow will be epic.  They'll make Chicago's horrible parking meters deal look like NewsCorp's deal for MySpace.  Tolls for sidewalks? Credit card swipers on water fountains? Melt down the Joe Louis statue for something "less intimidating and more business friendly"?

Anything is possible!


"We're out of resources, we don't make stuff anymore and the wealthy have shoved every nickel they could get straight up their asses and there's no money moving around amongst the poor people who pay our bills!  What should we do?"

"Monetize and overcharge for every single thing that is necessary for survival!"

"You think that'll work?"

"Look, f*ck if know or care.  Just help me get this money in this suitcase and take me to the airport."
 
2013-03-01 06:30:38 PM  
occupycorporatism.com
 
2013-03-01 06:33:38 PM  

Onkel Buck: [i26.photobucket.com image 280x280]
and all I got was a dead hooker


Hey man, that party never happened.  Didn't you hear?

/I heard the rumors long before they hit the news..................
 
2013-03-01 06:33:51 PM  

lack of warmth: [www.annarbor.com image 149x176]
Miss Me Yet?

Miss soap on a rope yet?


The jurors could have really trolled the Detroit media by returning a verdict today.
 
2013-03-01 06:39:24 PM  

Onkel Buck: lack of warmth: [www.annarbor.com image 149x176]
Miss Me Yet?

Miss soap on a rope yet?

Kwame a big dude, he'll be a viking before he is a victim


Yeah, big dudes never get raped.  No, that never happens, the other inmates don't ever gang up on a guy just to prove that it can be done.
 
2013-03-01 06:42:40 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Onkel Buck: [i26.photobucket.com image 280x280]
and all I got was a dead hooker

Hey man, that party never happened.  Didn't you hear?

/I heard the rumors long before they hit the news..................


Im sure. I listen to Drew and Mike online in the morning since I live in NC and got their take on it. What a mess
 
2013-03-01 06:48:43 PM  
This is what happens with 5 decades of Liberal Progressiveness.
 
2013-03-01 06:51:30 PM  

bunner: Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid.

"Liberal", "Conservative"  "Democrat" and "Republican" are

a b s o l u t e l y

m e a n i n g l e s s .


You're welcome.


Yea...but the Republicans and the Conservatives left Detroit a long time ago.
 
2013-03-01 06:51:56 PM  

lokis_mentor: I'll give you $35.


That show is such a farking train wreck that I can't help but watch it sometimes.
 
2013-03-01 06:52:10 PM  

lack of warmth: Onkel Buck: lack of warmth: [www.annarbor.com image 149x176]
Miss Me Yet?

Miss soap on a rope yet?

Kwame a big dude, he'll be a viking before he is a victim

Yeah, big dudes never get raped.  No, that never happens, the other inmates don't ever gang up on a guy just to prove that it can be done.


Can you tell us you made wine in the terlet, it sounds like you speak from experience

/Would anyone wanna brag that they farked Kwame Kilpatrick in the ass?
//don't answer that
 
2013-03-01 06:56:55 PM  
Job Creators(tm) chewed up Detroit, swallowed all our jobs, spit out an industrial wasteland, and made sure their well-paid minions on AM radio blamed all the resulting decay on those uppity folk left behind. Now the next generation of grifters get to come in and clean up on what's left for pennies on the dollar.

Kwame knows its good to be gangsta, he just didn't realize how much better it was to be a corporate one.
 
2013-03-01 07:02:39 PM  

Spare Me: Yea...but the Republicans and the Conservatives left Detroit

ceased to exist in any meaningful definition of the terms a long time ago.

FIFM
 
2013-03-01 07:03:02 PM  

birdboy2000: If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.


You don't actually think he's doing it for partisan reasons, do you?  I refuse to believe anyone is that dumb.
 
2013-03-01 07:10:04 PM  
www.goldenagebaseballcards.com

At Fault.
 
2013-03-01 07:10:14 PM  
Onkel Buck:Can you tell us you made wine in the terlet, it sounds like you speak from experience

/Would anyone wanna brag that they farked Kwame Kilpatrick in the ass?
//don't answer that


During seven years of my life, I volunteered some of my time in prisons.  Ranging from the prison for those that are soon to be released to Broad River Corrections Institute, the big SC prison where they carry out executions.  I have seen a guy smaller than myself who was serving 30 years for killing three men with his bare hands in a bar fight to a very large man wearing women's clothing.  I have walked around BRCI without guard and talked with inmates inside their cells.  I learned a lot from that perspective.  My wife's uncle (he is a prison guard in TX) and I swap stories.
 
2013-03-01 07:16:41 PM  
The year is 1974:

In Young's first year, there were 801 murders, up from 508 just three years before, and the old label "Murder City" gave way, in the press and the streets, to the grimmer still "Kill City." Even as the numbers rose, the crimes themselves grew nastier: old-fashioned one-on-one sexual assaults became gang rapes, stabbings were replaced by shootings, and unruly fights by execution-style slayings. Hardly a week went by without a major horror story on the front page of the papers. Police investigators were shocked, as one put it, by "the way the public accepts the homicide rate." Indignation, the copy told a reporter, had been replaced by a "ho-hum, another murder." The department was baffled by a rash of inquiries from citizens about the number of slayings in a given week- until it came out that the curious callers were organizing office betting pools
 
2013-03-01 07:18:52 PM  

Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government


Oh please let it be here!
 
2013-03-01 07:22:17 PM  
<B>LL316</B>

I'm not in Michigan, but that's the impression I get from out of state.  Partisanship and cronyism.  Decisions like the Benton Harbor golf course aren't fixing anyone's finances, and I'm very concerned about a local government not accountable at all to its residents.  Michigan's mess has been going on a long time, and it'll keep going on after these "emergency managers" spectacularly fail.

Call me old-fashioned, but I believe democracy is the best way to run cities and towns.  Better a bad government that won an election than a good one that didn't.
 
2013-03-01 07:24:22 PM  
"Welcome to Detroit. Biatches, leave!"
 
2013-03-01 07:27:38 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Job Creators(tm) chewed up Detroit, swallowed all our jobs, spit out an industrial wasteland, and made sure their well-paid minions on AM radio blamed all the resulting decay on those uppity folk left behind. Now the next generation of grifters get to come in and clean up on what's left for pennies on the dollar.

Kwame knows its good to be gangsta, he just didn't realize how much better it was to be a corporate one.


Um...

Step 1: Due to ingrained racism and history, black people are poor, and white people are rich.
Step 2: Because of step 1, as part of the whole "Let's riot because the Civil Rights Movement isn't fast enough" stage of the Civil Rights Movement, poor black folks riot, and burn large sections of Detroit.
Step 3: Anyone with cash runs from Detroit as fast as they possibly can (usually losing their shirt in the process like my grandparents).  Because of step 1, these are mostly, but not totally, white.
Step 4: Coleman Young shows up, blames all of Detroit's problems on whitey, and lets his cronies loot the city.  Every time anyone mentions the MASSIVE problems in Detroit, they scream racism while continuing to loot the city.
Step 5: Repeat Step 4 for 60 years with different names as Detroit spirals further and further.

Corporations were fairly involved in Step 1, and have been (however halfheartedly) fighting Step 5.  There are lots of places where the big corporations are to blame.  This is not one of them.
 
2013-03-01 07:28:48 PM  
16% of Detroit's murders last year were of out of towners.

Detroit Tourism Board surrenders.
 
2013-03-01 07:46:27 PM  
Detroit needs to be resettled by competent people and the native uprising must be put down. Do we have the will to do what needs to be done? .

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-01 07:46:31 PM  

This text is now purple: birdboy2000: If Obama decided to remove Michigan's governor for partisan reasons and appoint a democrat in his place, and a partisan supreme court signed off on it, the nation would be justly outraged.  Yet Michigan's governor is doing the same thing to democratic cities and towns across the state.

Of Michigan's large Democrat-controlled cities, only Ann Arbor isn't the equivalent of a failed-state.

Hell, even some of the tiny towns are Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome-levels of hopeless.


Baloney. Lansing's mayor is a democrat and he gets alot of support from the local residents and business community for his economic policy. They're actually doing quite well and like Ann Arbor are the only other city in Michigan to have a serious developing high-tech sector.

What you are not noticing is that the major population areas tend to be democratically controlled, out of those major areas one of them has a history of just down right corrupt cronyism. It's not party specific otherwise AA and Lansing/EL would be in the same boat. It's very specific to Detroit and the history of that city.

Personally I support the EFM call on Detroit. The city council there needs to be bombed because they thwart any effective leadership at the mayoral level. Having an EFM will allow that individual to bypass the council and rectify some of the cities problems - and hopefully uncover evidence needed to send some of them and their supporters to jail.

Also I grew up in Allen Park and I can flat out say the #1 problem with the Detroit area is JOBS.

Some of my cousins, the only work they can find without a college degree is at Wal-Mart and the ones that do go for higher education end up leaving because the opportunity isn't there in the area (maybe if there had been more software or computer businesses in the area when I was graduating from college, I would have stayed instead of going to California... who knows?)

Anyway, it's not a problem that can be solved or attributed to any particular political party. You'll notice that the two areas of the state that are doing rather well have HUGE educational institutions there and are actively using that as an asset to lure new business. How can Detroit hope to emulate that with the infrastructure it has set up right now? I have no idea.

I guess what I am saying is that even cleaning out the corruption in Detroit isn't going to save the city. It has deep structural problems that can't be easily or quickly solved.
 
2013-03-01 07:55:59 PM  

TwistedFark: It has deep structural problems that can't be easily or quickly solved.


image.made-in-china.com

plantcovercrops.com

m9.i.pbase.com
 
2013-03-01 08:13:27 PM  
www.corbisimages.com
www.uwfolk.org

The midwest was settled by rich white people.


bitofearthfarm.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-01 08:15:41 PM  
i463.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-01 08:23:22 PM  

carrion_luggage: [www.robocoparchive.com image 500x539]

YOU ARE FIVE DAYS, SIX HOURS AND TWENTY-SEVEN MINUTES LATE WITH YOUR FIRST QUARTER PROPERTY TAX PAYMENT. PLACE THE MONEY IN THE BAG AND SLIDE IT OVER TO ME. YOU HAVE THIRTY SECONDS TO COMPLY.


It'd malfunction at its demonstration before it had a chance to be deployed - where such malfunction takes out Gov Snyder and his friends in their attempt to put down the city uprising against him.

bunner: TwistedFark: It has deep structural problems that can't be easily or quickly solved.


That'll take care of Lansing's ALEC infestation, but what about Detroit?
 
2013-03-01 08:27:34 PM  
Damn Republicans
 
2013-03-01 08:27:40 PM  

sethstorm: It'd malfunction at its demonstration before it had a chance to be deployed - where such malfunction takes out Gov Snyder and his friends in their attempt to put down the city uprising against him.


Clearly then, your solution must be to continue on the current path.
 
2013-03-01 08:30:07 PM  

Vectron: The midwest was settled by rich white people.


Who left.  with your job in the trunk of their car.  Ta da.
 
2013-03-01 08:31:16 PM  
And by "settled", you mean decorated, put in necessary infrastructure to turn resources into money and THEN left, no?
 
2013-03-01 08:31:29 PM  

blue_2501: [i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]


What is that graph trying to tell us?
 
2013-03-01 08:33:13 PM  
As a resident of Flint, I am really getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2013-03-01 08:48:16 PM  

bunner: And by "settled", you mean decorated, put in necessary infrastructure to turn resources into money and THEN left, no?


You are absolutely clueless.
 
2013-03-01 08:48:21 PM  

birdboy2000: Better a bad government that won an election than a good one that didn't.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-01 08:49:45 PM  

Vectron: bunner: And by "settled", you mean decorated, put in necessary infrastructure to turn resources into money and THEN left, no?

You are absolutely clueless.


Wanna bet?  I got the joke.  Did you?  Or are you one of these people who log on to forums see smirk and the "clu3l3ssz0rs"?
 
2013-03-01 08:51:46 PM  

Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?


...you kidding?  Detroit is perfect for Republicans' plans to unilaterally take control of government without elections.  Now all they have to do is get Scalia to convince four other justices that it's legal, and they can go nationwide.
 
2013-03-01 08:55:01 PM  

meyerkev: Um...

Step 1: Due to ingrained racism and history, black people are poor, and white people are rich.
Step 2: Because of step 1, as part of the whole "Let's riot because the Civil Rights Movement isn't fast enough" stage of the Civil Rights Movement, poor black folks riot, and burn large sections of Detroit.
Step 3: Anyone with cash runs from Detroit as fast as they possibly can (usually losing their shirt in the process like my grandparents).  Because of step 1, these are mostly, but not totally, white.
Step 4: Coleman Young shows up, blames all of Detroit's problems on whitey, and lets his cronies loot the city.  Every time anyone mentions the MASSIVE problems in Detroit, they scream racism while continuing to loot the city.
Step 5: Repeat Step 4 for 60 years with different names as Detroit spirals further and further.

Corporations were fairly involved in Step 1, and have been (however halfheartedly) fighting Step 5.  There are lots of places where the big corporations are to blame.  This is not one of them.


Well, I'd agree, but you missed somewhere around 2 3 and/or 4 where most of the good manufacturing jobs in Detroit fled for parts elsewhere. Its hard enough to re-build a city with white flight taking away your tax base, its even harder when job flight is doing the same.
 
2013-03-01 08:55:19 PM  
and see.  Can't type.
 
2013-03-01 08:56:02 PM  

bunner: Or are you one of these people who log on to forums see smirk and the "clu3l3ssz0rs"?


Is that what they call them on Stormfront? He seems that type of FARKer.
 
2013-03-01 08:56:11 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Lost Thought 00: By the same logic, Obama could throw out a state legislature and governor, overturn all their state laws, and install his own appointees as the new government

No, because the Constitution doesn't work that way.

But state constitutions are different.  City charters are granted by the state.


There's a big argument to be made on that score, especially one based on the 14th amendment due process clause.
 
2013-03-01 09:03:58 PM  

Geotpf: Adolf Oliver Nipples: yeegrek: And the inevitable climax of the Teabagger Revolution finally comes around.

I generally try to avoid playing this game (but I'll power through it this one time):  Can anyone else imagine the psychotic ragegasm that would erupt from the right if a Democratic Governor told, say, a part of Appalachia that it was no longer fit to govern itself and therefore it's elected representatives would be swept aside in favor of the Gov's cronies?   I'm sure they'd handle it with the same general sense of calm and lack of hyperbole that they always handle things with.

To be fair, you'd have to find a case where such a situation exists. Can you? I can point to dozens of cities, including the one nearest to me (Harrisburg, PA), that have been savaged by the policies of their leaders. With very few exceptions, they are all governed by Democrats.

Is that a reflection of the party as a whole or the mores of the locales in question? Maybe a little bit of both. But mostly it's the failure of the electorate to vote for people who will govern responsibly instead of running on ridiculous populism and promises that they simply cannot keep without driving the city into the ground, which they then invariably do.

With very few exceptions, all cities (successful or not) of any significant size are governed by Democrats and feature a majority Democratic voting population.  Note: Maybe not be valid in the former Confederate States of America.

Assuming you are not in the land of Dixie, here's how it works:

Rural areas are almost always Republican.
Suburbs that are next to rural areas are usually Republican.
Suburbs that are next to big cities are usually Democratic.
Big cities are almost always Democratic.

That is, the reason poorly run big cities are always run by Democrats is because they are big cities, not because they are poorly run.


Mayor Bloomberg laughs at your generalities.
 
2013-03-01 09:09:21 PM  

dfenstrate: sethstorm: It'd malfunction at its demonstration before it had a chance to be deployed - where such malfunction takes out Gov Snyder and his friends in their attempt to put down the city uprising against him.

Clearly then, your solution must be to continue on the current path.


Given the current administration leading the state, yes.  They don't represent Michiganders in Lansing(save for the Mackinac Institute) and merely just want Detroit as a Delta City-like trophy.
 
2013-03-01 09:23:18 PM  
Nuke, from orbit. Sorry Whistler.
 
2013-03-01 09:23:42 PM  
This is directed to detroit residents. Couple years ago my tractor semi  broke down (clutch went) I was on Lynch Ave. about to turn on Van Dyke. This was about 11am, had to wait for tow truck to bring another tractor from our yard in London canada a two hour drive. when all said and done was there for about 5 hours, Most of the neighbourhoods looked pretty burned out, dirt and grass were covering at least half of the sidewalk. I walked to the corner store and the cashier area was surrounded by thick plexiglass,.had more than a couple of people come up to truck and ask for money, I just said I was from Canada and that sent them away.
  Well my question is was I lucky it was 11am and not 11pm.   I remember reading somewhere this is where the riots in 1968 started??
 
2013-03-01 09:37:26 PM  

JohnnyC: I hate the Emergency Financial Manager thing...

It's so anti-Democracy...


And, it has essentially zero track record of working!

Here's a good example.  Former Emergency Financial Manager of Highland Park charged with embezzlement:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130131/METRO01/301310376

It's bizarre to me that so many seem to think that, just because someone is hand picked by the governor, they'll suddenly be a Boy Scout when given millions of dollars to manage and no electoral oversight.  Detroit's history of corruption happens in spite of democracy, not because of it.  That's why the only real success EFM supporters can point to is one podunk town of about 1,800 people. Every other time, they've done just as poorly, if not worse, than democratically elected people.

But no one really cares about it working.  This is really about one thing: Republicans giving a big "fark you" to Democrats in any way they can.
 
2013-03-01 09:37:50 PM  

weirdneighbour: This is directed to detroit residents. Couple years ago my tractor semi  broke down (clutch went) I was on Lynch Ave. about to turn on Van Dyke. This was about 11am, had to wait for tow truck to bring another tractor from our yard in London canada a two hour drive. when all said and done was there for about 5 hours, Most of the neighbourhoods looked pretty burned out, dirt and grass were covering at least half of the sidewalk. I walked to the corner store and the cashier area was surrounded by thick plexiglass,.had more than a couple of people come up to truck and ask for money, I just said I was from Canada and that sent them away.
  Well my question is was I lucky it was 11am and not 11pm.   I remember reading somewhere this is where the riots in 1968 started??


Question one:  yes.  Question two:  no

/riots were in '67,  we won the world series in '68
//'67 riots started at a blind pig, at 12th Street (now Rosa Parks Blvd.) and Clairmount
 
2013-03-01 09:53:17 PM  

The Ice Cream Man: weirdneighbour: This is directed to detroit residents. Couple years ago my tractor semi  broke down (clutch went) I was on Lynch Ave. about to turn on Van Dyke. This was about 11am, had to wait for tow truck to bring another tractor from our yard in London canada a two hour drive. when all said and done was there for about 5 hours, Most of the neighbourhoods looked pretty burned out, dirt and grass were covering at least half of the sidewalk. I walked to the corner store and the cashier area was surrounded by thick plexiglass,.had more than a couple of people come up to truck and ask for money, I just said I was from Canada and that sent them away.
  Well my question is was I lucky it was 11am and not 11pm.   I remember reading somewhere this is where the riots in 1968 started??

Question one:  yes.  Question two:  no

/riots were in '67,  we won the world series in '68
//'67 riots started at a blind pig, at 12th Street (now Rosa Parks Blvd.) and Clairmount


Ah, ok  thanks, the world series I barely remember but I do have the team picture baseball card, I obviously have the facts mixed up about the riot , that I don't remember.

/was an Expo fan so my team will never win the world series
 
2013-03-01 09:53:24 PM  

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: But no one really cares about it working.  This is really about one thing: Republicans giving a big "fark you" to Democrats in any way they can


You know all those spoiled, dope addled, smug jerks you went to school with? They're all between 35 and 60 now and we've given them political positions.
 
2013-03-01 09:56:16 PM  
Here, the riots started outside of a beer joint at E. 79th and Hough.
 
2013-03-01 10:01:04 PM  
www.detroits-great-rebellion.com

This one.
 
2013-03-01 10:31:20 PM  

Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?


It would certainly be a good thing... for Detroit.  Put a nice big fence and watch as Ferndale & Royal Oak dissolve away into nothing because all the suburban honkies can't get to their cushy jobs in downtown Detroit anymore.  Detroit businesses would actually have to hire people from Detroit - an idea that is currently considered heresy.


Is an Emergency Manager needed?  YES.  The city council is a failed experiment that refuses to die and the mayor isn't getting anything worthwhile done.

The problem, however, is the idea of Snyder deciding who that EM is going to be.  Snyder is a Republican, cast straight from the mold, and would like nothing more than to see Detroit turned into "Auschwitz: the Sequel" and he's only going to pick someone he thinks can deliver that to him.

Sadly, Michigan has this stupid habit of electing saboteurs into their own government (Engler comes to mind) who do nothing but wreck everything they can and then flee back to their masters in Florida & Texas as soon as the people wise up and kick them out of office.
 
2013-03-01 10:47:11 PM  

Lyonid: You down with OCP?


Yeah, you know me.
 
2013-03-01 11:05:25 PM  

Geotpf: Aidan: Southern100: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Cheron: Tunk87: Fark It: Interesting.  What happens to democracy when people and their elected representatives are too illiterate, apathetic, corrupt, and/or incompetent?

Detroit Tea party The Republican Party

Pffft. Detroit hasn't seen a republican since Louis Miriani back in 1962.  Hell, I doubt you'd find one willing to even go in that city in anything less than a Sherman tank.

It's also funny (infuriating) when the news says things like "Romney visited Detroit today, to talk to people at Chrysler headquarters."

For those of you not in the know, that's nowhere near Detroit. Not even close, geographically, financially, or socially.

Some people use the term "Detroit" to mean "the domestic auto industry".  It's like how people use the term "Hollywood" to mean "the film industry", even though there is only minimal film production in Hollywood itself.


The technical term for this is  metonym.
 
2013-03-01 11:14:40 PM  

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: JohnnyC: I hate the Emergency Financial Manager thing...

But no one really cares about it working.  This is really about one thing: Republicans giving a big "fark you" to Democrats in any way they can.


Basically.  Between this and the ramrod of RTW, someone wants Detroit(and Michigan in general) to be the largest black eye to unions since PATCO.
 
2013-03-01 11:16:27 PM  

bunner: Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid.


"My opinions are obviously true to me, therefore they are correct" is not much of an argument, I'm afraid.
 
2013-03-01 11:30:32 PM  
Hey, can I move to a crime-infested shiat-hole with corrupt civic "leaders" and shiatty weather?

cmsimg.detnews.com
Detroit showed Zimbabwe how to achieve maximum fail.
 
2013-03-01 11:31:05 PM  

ciberido: bunner: Before this thread goes full scale partisan hackery, I just wanted to proffer this plain-as-the-balls-on-a-tall-dog factoid."My opinions are obviously true to me, therefore they are correct" is not much of an argument, I'm afraid.


And "I have dismissed your construct as mere wittering opinion, signifying nothing" isn't much of a critique.  Is it?  Wave that flag higher.  The other team might win.  I mean, some people are still buying the dog and pony show, but I ain't.  You stick with magazine rack editorializing and I'll stick with beliefs vs. results benefit cost / benefits analysis.  there, that was easy, wunnit?   :  )
 
2013-03-01 11:33:03 PM  
Oops, I had an extra benefits.  I must be a [not your party here].  *snort*
 
2013-03-01 11:49:34 PM  
NephilimNexus: Frank N Stein: Michigan should just boot Detroit from the state. Is tha possible?

It would certainly be a good thing... for Detroit.  Put a nice big fence and watch as Ferndale & Royal Oak dissolve away into nothing because all the suburban honkies can't get to their cushy jobs in downtown Detroit anymore.  Detroit businesses would actually have to hire people from Detroit - an idea that is currently considered heresy.

Is an Emergency Manager needed?  YES.  The city council is a failed experiment that refuses to die and the mayor isn't getting anything worthwhile done.

No, and to suggest that it is an "experiment" is to look at it the wrong way.   As long as Snyder's kind(read: ALEC, Mackinac Institute) has control over Michigan, the better course is to let Detroit continue without interference.

The problem, however, is the idea of Snyder deciding who that EM is going to be.  Snyder is a Republican, cast straight from the mold, and would like nothing more than to see Detroit turned into "Auschwitz: the Sequel" and he's only going to pick someone he thinks can deliver that to him.

The more reason not to have an Emergency Manager as long as the kind of groups that took over in 2010 have any control of Michigan.
 
2013-03-01 11:51:16 PM  

aerojockey: Every time I read about Detroit I am amazed the same thing didn't happen to  Pittsburgh.  Pittsburgh had the same drastic loss in manufacturing and population, probably worse, in fact, but somehow didn't turn into a hell-hole.  And we did it with people we elected ourselves!


Whites/Pittsburgh. Hate to mention race, and race is not the cause per se. But there it is.
 
2013-03-02 12:10:26 AM  

NephilimNexus: Snyder is a Republican, cast straight from the mold, and would like nothing more than to see Detroit turned into "Auschwitz: the Sequel" and he's only going to pick someone he thinks can deliver that to him.


That is the single dumbest thing in this thread, which is saying something.  Congratulations.  You even Godwined.
 
2013-03-02 12:12:00 AM  

YixilTesiphon: Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 234x240]


Because all counties have the exact same population per county.
 
2013-03-02 12:16:33 AM  
I just wanted to mention that some pithy observation made by some guy named Godwin years ago, which led to a witty remark, isn't actually a law.  It's just a witty remark.  Go to your corners, rinse, spit, wait for the bell.
 
2013-03-02 12:30:43 AM  
Snyder's dream, nearly a reality:
 
2013-03-02 12:38:10 AM  

How Snyder really wants remake Detroit Delta City's government:

 upload.wikimedia.org


/coming to a city near you.
 
2013-03-02 01:26:44 AM  
What Detroit really needs is some political competition. It doesn't have to be Republicans vs. Democrats, though that would be the most obvious avenue - frankly, intraparty conflicts among Democrats in Detroit would probably do in a pinch. No matter how it happens, Detroit needs at least two powerful, vested, interested groups that are at every bit as interested in and capable of keeping each other accountable as they are in controlling Detroit. The only way that happens is if the existing Detroit power structure is severely handicapped - the Emergency Manager could help. "Nuking" the City Council from orbit would do wonders, especially if there was some jail time attached.

On the other hand, the Emergency Manager is probably going to just redirect all of the money currently spent on corruption and graft into the hands of the bankers that financed all of the loans that made that corruption and graft possible, which means the people of Detroit will be suffering under another couple decades of poorly funded services and obscene tax rates. Frankly, this is one situation where a bankruptcy would probably be worthwhile - it'll take  generations to pay that muni debt off otherwise, and it's not like there's much Detroit left to cover it anyhow. Whether anyone will actually allow Detroit to declare bankruptcy is a different issue.

As for the whole Republican/Democrat divide, the Democratic Party is the party of the cities. Consequently, when a large city gets corrupt, it's probably going to get corrupt under a Democratic administration because that's where Democrats live. You don't hear about Republican municipal corruption because, when it happens (and it does), it's usually small potatoes - maybe a small town where the sheriff, judge and mayor are all in each other's pockets, where speed traps are numerous, drug forfeiture laws are applied indiscriminately against visitors, that sort of thing. Think rural Texas or Florida. Individually, few of those stories are large enough to draw the sort of attention that Detroit or New Orleans draws. Collectively, I guarantee you that the stench of low-life Republican kleptocrats is every bit the equal of their Democratic counterparts.
 
2013-03-02 06:14:52 AM  
Not a single post in this thread addresses the most pressing issue of all: how much Robocop 3 sucked ass.
 
2013-03-02 09:08:16 AM  

meyerkev: blue_2501: [i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

What is that graph trying to tell us?


Sorry, should have posted the news link:

With Detroit under an Emergency Manager, half of Michigan blacks will have no elected local govt

i463.photobucket.com

Also, TRMS video on this situation is good stuff.

/tried submitting this to Fark, but Fark modmins don't care about black people
//either that or just an intense hatred of all things Rachel Maddow
 
2013-03-02 09:24:29 AM  

Vectron: Detroit needs to be resettled by competent people and the native uprising must be put down. Do we have the will to do what needs to be done? .

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x545]


Dude, take your racist bullshiat and go back to Stormfront.
 
2013-03-02 10:24:55 AM  

blue_2501: meyerkev: blue_2501: [i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

What is that graph trying to tell us?

Sorry, should have posted the news link:

With Detroit under an Emergency Manager, half of Michigan blacks will have no elected local govt

[i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

Also, TRMS video on this situation is good stuff.

/tried submitting this to Fark, but Fark modmins don't care about black people
//either that or just an intense hatred of all things Rachel Maddow


Wrong. The elected local government will still be there; it simply won't have any power over the pursestrings. Elections will be held, speeches will be made (cf. Tom Wolfe's "Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers") and votes will be tallied. The difference will be that the mayor and the council, having failed to exercise financial powers responsibly (and this is a problem with every council and mayor for the last 40 years), will have no power to spend money or even to allocate it. This is how receivership works.

If the city were in bankruptcy, it would have an unelected receiver appointed by the court, with much the same powers as the EFM. The EFM is simply a state-appointed receiver. Would any of you care to explain how one receiver is evil and the other is just peachy keen?
 
2013-03-02 10:31:20 AM  

LibertyHiller: blue_2501: meyerkev: blue_2501: [i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

What is that graph trying to tell us?

Sorry, should have posted the news link:

With Detroit under an Emergency Manager, half of Michigan blacks will have no elected local govt

[i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

Also, TRMS video on this situation is good stuff.

/tried submitting this to Fark, but Fark modmins don't care about black people
//either that or just an intense hatred of all things Rachel Maddow

Wrong. The elected local government will still be there; it simply won't have any power over the pursestrings. Elections will be held, speeches will be made (cf. Tom Wolfe's "Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers") and votes will be tallied. The difference will be that the mayor and the council, having failed to exercise financial powers responsibly (and this is a problem with every council and mayor for the last 40 years), will have no power to spend money or even to allocate it. This is how receivership works.

If the city were in bankruptcy, it would have an unelected receiver appointed by the court, with much the same powers as the EFM. The EFM is simply a state-appointed receiver. Would any of you care to explain how one receiver is evil and the other is just peachy keen?


One can be appointed by your political enemies at any given time whenever they want to and the other can be appointed by a judge under a specific situation??

More or less that seems to be the complaint. As much as I agree that something needs to be done in Detroit (EFM? Sure I guess) the law that Snyder signed is flagrantly open to abuse and I can see why.
 
2013-03-02 11:23:55 AM  

LibertyHiller: If the city were in bankruptcy, it would have an unelected receiver appointed by the court, with much the same powers as the EFM. The EFM is simply a state-appointed receiver. Would any of you care to explain how one receiver is evil and the other is just peachy keen?


Because the EFM is being appointed by a partisan Republican Governor who (along with other recent Rust Belt Republican Governors) is using his power to force through Republican ideology on a population that has soundly rejected it.  The EFM's job is not to fix Detroit, it's to bust the unions and sell off Detroit's assets to the Governor's friends, just like they've done in other Michigan cities already.
 
2013-03-02 11:46:44 AM  

TwistedFark: LibertyHiller: blue_2501: meyerkev: blue_2501: [i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

What is that graph trying to tell us?

Sorry, should have posted the news link:

With Detroit under an Emergency Manager, half of Michigan blacks will have no elected local govt

[i463.photobucket.com image 600x481]

Also, TRMS video on this situation is good stuff.

/tried submitting this to Fark, but Fark modmins don't care about black people
//either that or just an intense hatred of all things Rachel Maddow

Wrong. The elected local government will still be there; it simply won't have any power over the pursestrings. Elections will be held, speeches will be made (cf. Tom Wolfe's "Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers") and votes will be tallied. The difference will be that the mayor and the council, having failed to exercise financial powers responsibly (and this is a problem with every council and mayor for the last 40 years), will have no power to spend money or even to allocate it. This is how receivership works.

If the city were in bankruptcy, it would have an unelected receiver appointed by the court, with much the same powers as the EFM. The EFM is simply a state-appointed receiver. Would any of you care to explain how one receiver is evil and the other is just peachy keen?

One can be appointed by your political enemies at any given time whenever they want to and the other can be appointed by a judge under a specific situation??


Not how it works; there has to be a pattern of financial insolvency, and there's a process for appointing the EFM. Yesterday's announcement was merely one step in a long process (if I read this right, Step 5 of 12).

More or less that seems to be the complaint. As much as I agree that something needs to be done in Detroit (EFM? Sure I guess) the law that Snyder signed is flagrantly open to abuse and I can see why.

Since you don't seem to understand the process, how can you say that you understand the law?

Mentat: LibertyHiller: Because the EFM is being appointed by a partisan Republican Governor who (along with other recent Rust Belt Republican Governors) is using his power to force through Republican ideology on a population that has soundly rejected it.  The EFM's job is not to fix Detroit, it's to bust the unions and sell off Detroit's assets to the Governor's friends, just like they've done in other Michigan cities already.


Mmmm... so you were OK with EFMs when Granholm was appointing them?

Do you mind listing which of Snyder's friends have profited, and where? Because the biggest asset sale I can think of in the case of an EFM would be Pontiac selling its water system to a county water authority.

Not to defend Snyder, but he's not terribly partisan when compared to Jace Bolger or Randy Richardville. Those are the guys who are pushing the ideology of reaction, far more than Snyder is.
 
2013-03-02 01:29:49 PM  
It was a rough place - the seediest dive on the wharf. Populated with every reject and cutthroat from Bombay to Calcutta. It's worse than Detroit.
 
2013-03-02 03:02:56 PM  

LibertyHiller: Mmmm... so you were OK with EFMs when Granholm was appointing them?


Not really, no.  I find the whole concept deplorable.  If the city votes on it, sure.  If it's a one-off situation, I could swallow it.  But the Republicans have proven time and again that they are too corrupt to have this kind of power.  It's used more to promote their ideology and destroy their enemies than to actually help the affected citizens.
 
2013-03-02 09:09:19 PM  

LibertyHiller: Since you don't seem to understand the process, how can you say that you understand the law?


Obviously (at least I thought so) I was being hyperbollic. The point is basically thus - This law and it's implementation is inherently anti-democratic (as in, completely against the concept of Democracy "big D").

I will give you a perfectly cromulent example of how this can be abused:

Snyder appoints EFM who as part of clearing Detroits debts starts to sell off assets. He sells the waterworks to nearby (republican) Macomb county for less than market price. No one gets to vote on this, certainly not the citizens of Detroit who actually own the waterworks.

The EFM law as it's written is a fantastic tool for the party in power to be able to loot struggling cities. It will certainly be used that way in the future (near or far) if left unopposed (again!).

Look I am actually not against the concept of a EFM, even though it doesn't have a good track record in Michigan or elsewhere in the nation (it actually fails far, far, far more often than succeeds). I like the idea of bypassing the city council and would rather the power go to the Mayor (who is elected, so there is representation of the city). The thing I really don't like is that there is no representation of the people being governed (the people who own the actual assets the EFM is overseeing).

If the law was changed so that the people elected the EFM, I think I would 100% support it (conceptually at least) and it would remove most of the major complaints about how it can be abused.
 
2013-03-03 12:46:45 AM  

TwistedFark: LibertyHiller: Since you don't seem to understand the process, how can you say that you understand the law?

Obviously (at least I thought so) I was being hyperbollic. The point is basically thus - This law and it's implementation is inherently anti-democratic (as in, completely against the concept of Democracy "big D").


If the mere appointment of a financial receiver is anti-democratic, then municipal bankruptcy is an equal affront, but I don't hear you crying about the loss of democracy in Stockton or San Bernardino.

I will give you a perfectly cromulent example of how this can be abused:

Snyder appoints EFM who as part of clearing Detroits debts starts to sell off assets. He sells the waterworks to nearby (republican) Macomb county for less than market price. No one gets to vote on this, certainly not the citizens of Detroit who actually own the waterworks.


Well, there really isn't a market for water systems, but in the name of playing along, I'll bite. Why would the EFM neglect his fiduciary duty by selling something for less than he could reasonably get?

(Fun fact: The voting patterns in the suburbs of Detroit aren't as easy to predict as you might think. Macomb County voted for Obama in 2012, by about 16,000 votes. His margin was even greater in Oakland County: 25,000 votes.)

(One other detail: the residents of Detroit do not own the water department; the corporate body known as "The City of Detroit" does. It's a subtle difference, but it's one that matters absolutely.)

The EFM law as it's written is a fantastic tool for the party in power to be able to loot struggling cities. It will certainly be used that way in the future (near or far) if left unopposed (again!).

The looting has been going on for 40 or 50 years; you're complaining about the bottom of the barrel. There isn't much left worth looting in Detroit, Flint or Pontiac.

Look I am actually not against the concept of a EFM, even though it doesn't have a good track record in Michigan or elsewhere in the nation (it actually fails far, far, far more often than succeeds). I like the idea of bypassing the city council and would rather the power go to the Mayor (who is elected, so there is representation of the city). The thing I really don't like is that there is no representation of the people being governed (the people who own the actual assets the EFM is overseeing).

If the law was changed so that the people elected the EFM, I think I would 100% support it (conceptually at least) and it would remove most of the major complaints about how it can be abused.


Having the EFM subject to election utterly defeats the purpose; one of the reasons for a receiver of any kind is to have decisions made without reference to politics, and strictly on the basis of "What makes fiscal sense?"

Mentat: LibertyHiller: Mmmm... so you were OK with EFMs when Granholm was appointing them?

Not really, no. I find the whole concept deplorable.  If the city votes on it, sure.  If it's a one-off situation, I could swallow it. But the Republicans have proven time and again that they are too corrupt to have this kind of power. It's used more to promote their ideology and destroy their enemies than to actually help the affected citizens.


Citation needed.
 
2013-03-03 01:52:49 AM  

LibertyHiller: TwistedFark: LibertyHiller: Since you don't seem to understand the process, how can you say that you understand the law?


<big snip>

You're really derping this one up hard.

Municipal bankrupcy is not the same as an EFM. No need to move the goalposts so hard, you'll throw out your back.

On Macomb County - again, not essential the argumental hypothetical situation.

On the difference between "citizens of detroit" vs. "The City of Detroit" - I don't even understand why you want to make the distinction. There is not a "subtle difference that matters absolutely." This like saying there is a difference "subtle that matters absolutely" between between the will of the people in regards to how they vote and the results of that voting. Also, it's completely immaterial to the argument I put forth... (I am starting to notice a pattern here...)

Finally you said -  "Having the EFM subject to election utterly defeats the purpose; one of the reasons for a receiver of any kind is to have decisions made without reference to politics, and strictly on the basis of "What makes fiscal sense?"

The short answer here is, "No it doesn't." Weither the appointment is made by poll, designation or lottery, the position is not one that runs for re-election. I posited an example that would directly address the biggest complaint against the EFM law. There are certainly others.

At the end of the day, the way the EFM law is written it puts the assets of the city in the hands of a non-elected official. Even in your municipal bankrupcy straw man, this isn't what generally happens (instead the muncipality still manages the assets, under order from the court).

Seriously, unless you're a dyed in the wool contrarian or on Snyders payroll, there isn't much to defend about the implementation of the EFM law. I consider myself fairly reasonable and more than willing to entertain the concept, but the implementation of it is really quite poor and fraught with possible corruption and limited oversight. It might even be a solution for the problem, but the way it functions is firmly against what I (and many many other people I should add) hold as the principles of a democracy.
 
2013-03-03 06:15:18 AM  
i1295.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-03 07:57:15 AM  

TwistedFark: LibertyHiller: TwistedFark: LibertyHiller: Since you don't seem to understand the process, how can you say that you understand the law?

<big snip>

You're really derping this one up hard.

Municipal bankrupcy is not the same as an EFM. No need to move the goalposts so hard, you'll throw out your back.


Both are forms of receivership. One is managed by the state. One is managed by a federal court. No goalposts moving here, except in your mind.

On Macomb County - again, not essential the argumental hypothetical situation.

Hey, it was your hypothetical.

On the difference between "citizens of detroit" vs. "The City of Detroit" - I don't even understand why you want to make the distinction. There is not a "subtle difference that matters absolutely." This like saying there is a difference "subtle that matters absolutely" between between the will of the people in regards to how they vote and the results of that voting. Also, it's completely immaterial to the argument I put forth... (I am starting to notice a pattern here...)

Your argument was that an EFM could dispose of the property belonging to the citizens of Detroit without a vote. As I pointed out, the water system belongs to the corporate entity "The City of Detroit." That's a different animal in the eyes of the law.

Finally you said -  "Having the EFM subject to election utterly defeats the purpose; one of the reasons for a receiver of any kind is to have decisions made without reference to politics, and strictly on the basis of "What makes fiscal sense?"

The short answer here is, "No it doesn't." Weither the appointment is made by poll, designation or lottery, the position is not one that runs for re-election. I posited an example that would directly address the biggest complaint against the EFM law. There are certainly others.

At the end of the day, the way the EFM law is written it puts the assets of the city in the hands of a non-elected official. Even in your municipal bankrupcy straw man, this isn't what generally happens (instead the muncipality still manages the assets, under order from the court).

Seriously, unless you're a dyed in the wool contrarian or on Snyders payroll, there isn't much to defend about the implementation of the EFM law. I consider myself fairly reasonable and more than willing to entertain the concept, but the implementation of it is really quite poor and fraught with possible corruption and l ...


You haven't shown anything of the sort.
 
2013-03-04 10:47:14 PM  

YixilTesiphon: Hobodeluxe: Michigan is a dictatorship. they've overthrown duly elected representatives and installed corporate cronies to do away with collective bargaining agreements and crush unions allowing then to cut the pay of city workers.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 234x240]


Which resulted in a state that is now run by:
www.alec.org
...which might as well be OCP of the 21st Century, warts and all.

ShawnDoc: This man is happy to hear it.
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 533x300]


Looks like Mr. Snyder, the guy that holds the Governor's seat for Michigan.
 
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