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(WPTV)   Come live in Florida, where the sun is bright, the beaches are warm and the SINKHOLES SWALLOW YOU WHOLE WHILE YOU'RE SLEEPING   (wptv.com) divider line 127
    More: Scary, sleeps, beaches  
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7234 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2013 at 10:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-01 11:15:17 AM
He didn't die from the fall, and don't go in after him. And nevermind the elevator in the house.
2.bp.blogspot.com
Obscure as hell b/c I can't find the right image.
 
2013-03-01 11:15:33 AM
We're all going to die.
Sinkholes are on the rise, along with earthquakes, meteors, and solar flares.
We are living in the end times.
 
2013-03-01 11:21:00 AM

Fark In The Duck: Swallow you whole.  The rest of you too...


Sounds like you've met my ex-wife.
 
2013-03-01 11:21:48 AM

Confabulat: Elegy: And this right here is why I would never, ever, ever, buy a house in South Florida.

Ok, well, one of the reasons. There's also the rampant development, the greasy hustlers, the entitled old people, the out and out dysfunctional that South Florida attracts.

But mostly it's the geology. There is the ever present possibility that the earth will open up and swallow your entire house with no warning. Not to mentions the ongoing battles over sinkhole insurance rates and fraud....

Seffner is not South Florida. It's Hillsborough County, up here by Tampa.


Actually, you have a better chance at getting sucked a little further north.  How do you think all those lakes got in Orlando?
 
2013-03-01 11:22:24 AM

J.Shelby: Confabulat: valar_morghulis: There's a sinkhole in Gainesville that's basically become an entire ecosystem. Paine's Prairie.

You're thinking of Devil's Millhopper. Payne's Prairie is a gigantic marsh, not a sinkhole.

Payne's Prarie was made by a sinkhole, but it isn't one.  It was a lake until the sinkhole emptied it.


I stand corrected!
 
2013-03-01 11:24:12 AM

Rip Dashrock: J.Shelby: Yes, here in Tampa, we have terrible horrors.  Gators, giant snakes, sinkholes, gators, sharks, hurricanes, gators, deadly spiders, all kinds of deadly vipers, gators, and maybe more gators.  Don't come here.

Florida, America's Australia.


The women aren't as attractive.
 
2013-03-01 11:24:45 AM
Is there a way to create a sinkhole the approximate size of Dade County?
 
2013-03-01 11:24:50 AM

StrikitRich: Winter Park scoffs at your puny sinkhole.  Get back when it's eaten half a dozen Porsches and a Winnebago.


I remember that.  I was living on Corrine back then.

Didn't they turn it into a park?
 
2013-03-01 11:29:34 AM
assets.nydailynews.com
 
2013-03-01 11:29:35 AM

J.Shelby: Yes, here in Tampa, we have terrible horrors.  Gators, giant snakes, sinkholes, gators, sharks, hurricanes, gators, deadly spiders, all kinds of deadly vipers, gators, and maybe more gators.  Don't come here.


Yeah no worries about that ever happening.
 
2013-03-01 11:32:51 AM

Dion Fortune: We're all going to die.
Sinkholes are on the rise, along with earthquakes, meteors, and solar flares.
We are living in the end times.


I bet you're a blast at parties.
 
2013-03-01 11:42:13 AM

Confabulat: katerbug72: All those photos and not one photo of the hole. I also hate it when they quote the horrible grammar of the interviewee. That's one place where I would love to see paraphrasing.

/not a grammar nazi

My guess is the hole is still inside the house. There's no photos of the hole anywhere.


It also has been making phone calls to 9-1-1.
 
2013-03-01 11:43:44 AM

Glancing Blow: Gabrielmot: Confabulat: /not a grammar nazi

My guess is the hole is still inside the house. There's no photos of the hole a

Jesus people... RTFA.

The sinkhole is naturally occurring and appears to be about 100 feet (30 meters) across, based on estimates made by engineers using radar, and it may be as deep as 50 feet, authorities say. It's not visible except inside the home.

Thank you sir, now could you help me with the math?  Don't you think the house has a rather large footprint if a 7,850 square foot hole can be hidden inside with room to spare? Diameter alleged to be 100', so 50*50*3.14=7850.


Ok, I got this one guys.

Catastrophic sinkholes like this are called "cover collapse" sinkholes. They happen because the sediments on top of the limestone have enough clay in them to stick together without the support of rock underneath. These features tend to collapse all at once (catostrophicly, even) because the topsoil holds over a void, sometimes for years, before collapsing all at once. Contrast to areas that have more sand in topsoil, where you get subsidence sinkholes that look like shallow, sandy depressions.

So what you have here is a large void, covered by a dome of clay. That clay collapse at the point where the guy's room was, sucking him into the void underneath the topsoil.

The emergency crews would have run ground penetrating radar around the house. Hence, they can tell that the void itself is quite large, large enough to swallow the house. However, the remaining topsoil is still holding together, and the only breach is inside the house. For how long, no one knows - hence the large safety zone around the house and why they won't let rescue crews near it.

So yes, the sinkhole is probably larger than the house. It's just that currently, the only area of topsoil that has given way is the small area under the bedroom.

Does that make sense?
 
2013-03-01 11:52:07 AM

Elegy: Does that make sense?


Plenty of sense and well-put. I'm expecting a CNN anchor to blame it on global warming.
 
2013-03-01 11:54:34 AM

Glancing Blow: Gabrielmot: Confabulat: /not a grammar nazi

My guess is the hole is still inside the house. There's no photos of the hole a

Jesus people... RTFA.

The sinkhole is naturally occurring and appears to be about 100 feet (30 meters) across, based on estimates made by engineers using radar, and it may be as deep as 50 feet, authorities say. It's not visible except inside the home.

Thank you sir, now could you help me with the math?  Don't you think the house has a rather large footprint if a 7,850 square foot hole can be hidden inside with room to spare? Diameter alleged to be 100', so 50*50*3.14=7850.


Imagine it as a 100 foot balloon under the house and only the top of the balloon has a small hole.
 
2013-03-01 11:57:54 AM

Confabulat: valar_morghulis: There's a sinkhole in Gainesville that's basically become an entire ecosystem. Paine's Prairie.

You're thinking of Devil's Millhopper. Payne's Prairie is a gigantic marsh, not a sinkhole.


Payne's Prairie is very much a type of sinkhole feature, its a type of polje, which is a large regional feature that can be though of as an amalgamation of sinkholes. A typical aspect of a polje is call a swallet, a karst window that surface water drains into, such as La Chua sink where the water from the prairie basin ends up.  Sometimes it gets clogged and Alachua Lake reappears for a while.

Both PP and Devil's Millhopper are classic sinkhole features, with great ecological aspects as well.

>Geologist who lives in Gainesville and works with sinkhole detection.
 
2013-03-01 11:59:46 AM

starscream1690: Confabulat: valar_morghulis: There's a sinkhole in Gainesville that's basically become an entire ecosystem. Paine's Prairie.

You're thinking of Devil's Millhopper. Payne's Prairie is a gigantic marsh, not a sinkhole.

Payne's Prairie is very much a type of sinkhole feature, its a type of polje, which is a large regional feature that can be though of as an amalgamation of sinkholes. A typical aspect of a polje is call a swallet, a karst window that surface water drains into, such as La Chua sink where the water from the prairie basin ends up.  Sometimes it gets clogged and Alachua Lake reappears for a while.

Both PP and Devil's Millhopper are classic sinkhole features, with great ecological aspects as well.

>Geologist who lives in Gainesville and works with sinkhole detection.


Dammit you made me learn something today.
 
2013-03-01 12:05:13 PM
they're all gonna laugh at you
 
2013-03-01 12:17:19 PM

Elegy: Glancing Blow: Gabrielmot: Confabulat: /not a grammar nazi

My guess is the hole is still inside the house. There's no photos of the hole a

Jesus people... RTFA.

The sinkhole is naturally occurring and appears to be about 100 feet (30 meters) across, based on estimates made by engineers using radar, and it may be as deep as 50 feet, authorities say. It's not visible except inside the home.

Thank you sir, now could you help me with the math?  Don't you think the house has a rather large footprint if a 7,850 square foot hole can be hidden inside with room to spare? Diameter alleged to be 100', so 50*50*3.14=7850.

Ok, I got this one guys.

Catastrophic sinkholes like this are called "cover collapse" sinkholes. They happen because the sediments on top of the limestone have enough clay in them to stick together without the support of rock underneath. These features tend to collapse all at once (catostrophicly, even) because the topsoil holds over a void, sometimes for years, before collapsing all at once. Contrast to areas that have more sand in topsoil, where you get subsidence sinkholes that look like shallow, sandy depressions.

So what you have here is a large void, covered by a dome of clay. That clay collapse at the point where the guy's room was, sucking him into the void underneath the topsoil.

The emergency crews would have run ground penetrating radar around the house. Hence, they can tell that the void itself is quite large, large enough to swallow the house. However, the remaining topsoil is still holding together, and the only breach is inside the house. For how long, no one knows - hence the large safety zone around the house and why they won't let rescue crews near it.

So yes, the sinkhole is probably larger than the house. It's just that currently, the only area of topsoil that has given way is the small area under the bedroom.

Does that make sense?


Not a bad summary, good job.

Just FYI I work with this type of ground penetrating radar on a daily basis.  I'd take that 100 ft diameter cavity estimate with a big grain of salt, GPR is only really seeing down about 15 feet or so, less if there are clayey soils (clay "soaks up" radar signals and would severely restrict the penetration with the type of antenna they are using in the video).  All they are likely seeing are reflectors that may indicate dipping or disturbed soil layers near surface around the house, signals that can also result from construction of the house, removed trees, natural bedding (ancient dunes, etc).

Still, it was definitely a good idea to evacuate the immediate area, this thing is probably going to keep getting bigger this early in the game.

>Not the first time I've seen a bedroom end up 20 feet down, but this is the first "civilian" mortality I know of.  Sinkhole killed a driller working a drill rig a few years ago.  Sucks for the family members.
 
2013-03-01 12:19:56 PM

Another Government Employee: StrikitRich: Winter Park scoffs at your puny sinkhole.  Get back when it's eaten half a dozen Porsches and a Winnebago.

I remember that.  I was living on Corrine back then.

Didn't they turn it into a park?


Yep, its now Lake Rose.
 
2013-03-01 12:31:26 PM

Elegy: Confabulat: Seffner is not South Florida. It's Hillsborough County, up here by Tampa.

Technically correct, but as I live in the panhandle, anything south of Gainesville is South Florida to me.

/derp
//I feel stupid now


Huh. Florida has a pecking order. Who knew?
 
2013-03-01 12:31:43 PM
That's funny because 'sinkhole' is the nickname for subby's mom. And yes, she does do that when you're sleeping too....

Slartibeerfest: How deep do sinkholes typically get?


I've never hit bottom with her...
 
2013-03-01 12:44:59 PM
That house is about 5 miles from mine.

That's not good.

Usually these appear after the farmers pump all of the water out to protect the strawberries during the winter. This is nowhere near any strawberry fields though.
 
2013-03-01 12:45:48 PM

starscream1690: >Geologist who lives in Gainesville and works with sinkhole detection.


Off topic, but have we met?
 
2013-03-01 12:57:24 PM

Deep Contact: Your living on a sandbar.


What about my living on a sandbar?
 
2013-03-01 12:59:01 PM

numsix: That house is about 5 miles from mine.

That's not good.

Usually these appear after the farmers pump all of the water out to protect the strawberries during the winter. This is nowhere near any strawberry fields though.


As I understand, they can happen pretty much anywhere, anytime the water table gets too low there. But what do I know? I'm no geologist or hydraulogist.
 
2013-03-01 01:00:47 PM
The ground just swallowed him up.

Um, repent or ye shall likewise perish?
 
2013-03-01 01:02:00 PM
Came for the "this guy was so fat...." jokes.

Leaving sorely disappointed.
 
2013-03-01 01:05:52 PM
Killed by a sinkhole under his bed. Well, at least he went out in a more interesting way than almost everyone else. Sucks though.
 
2013-03-01 01:11:08 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: [assets.nydailynews.com image 635x599]


Not "stinkhole" - SINKHOLE.   Oh wait, that works too.
 
2013-03-01 01:24:24 PM
Love the knowledge dished out here about our geology.  Florida is really unique and beautiful in that sense.  Too bad quite a few members of a certain political party are still trying to base our entire economy around residential development.
 
2013-03-01 01:28:42 PM

mikaloyd: Elegy: Confabulat: Seffner is not South Florida. It's Hillsborough County, up here by Tampa.

Technically correct, but as I live in the panhandle, anything south of Gainesville is South Florida to me.

/derp
//I feel stupid now

Huh. Florida has a pecking order. Who knew?


A rather complex one.
Miami+Ft. Lauderdale = capital of the Third World.
Rest of South Florida = old rich yankees.
Orlando and Atlantic Coast = poor yankee trash.
Naples+Sarasota = rich old midwesterners.
Tampa/St. Pete = poor yankee trash with a few Cubans and SE Asians sprinkled in.
Land around the Big O (Lake Okeechobee) = the old west, with tons of Cowboys, Indians, and wide open spaces.
Central Florida, excepting Orlando = hillbillies+Ohio meth addicts.
Panhandle = the South.
 
2013-03-01 01:32:45 PM

numsix: That house is about 5 miles from mine.

That's not good.

Usually these appear after the farmers pump all of the water out to protect the strawberries during the winter. This is nowhere near any strawberry fields though.


So the victim isn't in strawberry fields forever?
 
2013-03-01 01:34:27 PM

thewitchking: J.Shelby: Yes, here in Tampa, we have terrible horrors.  Gators, giant snakes, sinkholes, gators, sharks, hurricanes, gators, deadly spiders, all kinds of deadly vipers, gators, and maybe more gators.  Don't come here.

Yeah no worries about that ever happening.


Also, the Tampa Bay area is the lightning capitol of North America, home to the best lightning research facility, and one of the World's major lightning hotspots.  Bonus.
 
2013-03-01 01:39:39 PM

FLMountainMan: Love the knowledge dished out here about our geology.  Florida is really unique and beautiful in that sense.  Too bad quite a few members of a certain political party are still trying to base our entire economy around residential development.


Preach on brother.
 
2013-03-01 01:43:50 PM
'You sure this is a way to make meth?!?'
t3.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-01 02:17:40 PM
Taken out of context this really does remind me of something you might here in Florida  " my old lady turned the light on and all I seen was this big hole "
 
2013-03-01 02:37:13 PM
What a horrific and random way to die. Makes you reconsider your retirement plans... YOLO, dude, do everything fun every day because you could be eaten by a sinkhole!
 
2013-03-01 02:39:23 PM
BAN ASSAULT HOLES!
 
2013-03-01 02:46:12 PM

starscream1690: Elegy: Glancing Blow: Gabrielmot: Confabulat: /not a grammar nazi

My guess is the hole is still inside the house. There's no photos of the hole a

Jesus people... RTFA.

The sinkhole is naturally occurring and appears to be about 100 feet (30 meters) across, based on estimates made by engineers using radar, and it may be as deep as 50 feet, authorities say. It's not visible except inside the home.

Thank you sir, now could you help me with the math?  Don't you think the house has a rather large footprint if a 7,850 square foot hole can be hidden inside with room to spare? Diameter alleged to be 100', so 50*50*3.14=7850.

Ok, I got this one guys.

Catastrophic sinkholes like this are called "cover collapse" sinkholes. They happen because the sediments on top of the limestone have enough clay in them to stick together without the support of rock underneath. These features tend to collapse all at once (catostrophicly, even) because the topsoil holds over a void, sometimes for years, before collapsing all at once. Contrast to areas that have more sand in topsoil, where you get subsidence sinkholes that look like shallow, sandy depressions.

So what you have here is a large void, covered by a dome of clay. That clay collapse at the point where the guy's room was, sucking him into the void underneath the topsoil.

The emergency crews would have run ground penetrating radar around the house. Hence, they can tell that the void itself is quite large, large enough to swallow the house. However, the remaining topsoil is still holding together, and the only breach is inside the house. For how long, no one knows - hence the large safety zone around the house and why they won't let rescue crews near it.

So yes, the sinkhole is probably larger than the house. It's just that currently, the only area of topsoil that has given way is the small area under the bedroom.

Does that make sense?

Not a bad summary, good job.

Just FYI I work with this type of ground penetrating radar on ...


Dang.

So what do you do if you want to buy a house down there?  Hire GP radar? too expensive?

Pray?
 
2013-03-01 02:51:48 PM
PunGent:
Dang.
So what do you do if you want to buy a house down there?  Hire GP radar? too expensive?
Pray?


When I bought my house, I completely ignored the sinkhole issue, mostly because its not an issue.  In spite of crazy stories like this, its incredibly rare.  You're much more likely to be struck by lightning than have a sinkhole under your house.  Also, sinkhole insurance covers damage, and personal injury is almost unheard of.
 
2013-03-01 03:06:58 PM

J.Shelby: PunGent:
Dang.
So what do you do if you want to buy a house down there?  Hire GP radar? too expensive?
Pray?

When I bought my house, I completely ignored the sinkhole issue, mostly because its not an issue.  In spite of crazy stories like this, its incredibly rare.  You're much more likely to be struck by lightning than have a sinkhole under your house.  Also, sinkhole insurance covers damage, and personal injury is almost unheard of.


You'd be surprised how much this isn't true anymore since the legislature rewrote the statutes a couple of years ago:

Some relevant language from 627.706:

(a)"Catastrophic ground cover collapse" means geological activity that results in all the following:1.The abrupt collapse of the ground cover;2.A depression in the ground cover clearly visible to the naked eye;3.Structural damage to the covered building, including the foundation; and4.The insured structure being condemned and ordered to be vacated by the governmental agency authorized by law to issue such an order for that structure.
Contents coverage applies if there is a loss resulting from a catastrophic ground cover collapse. Damage consisting merely of the settling or cracking of a foundation, structure, or building does not constitute a loss resulting from a catastrophic ground cover collapse.

Also, your homeowner's insurance probably has this statute driven language:

"YOUR POLICY PROVIDES COVERAGE FOR A CATASTROPHIC GROUND COVER COLLAPSE THAT RESULTS IN THE PROPERTY BEING CONDEMNED AND UNINHABITABLE. OTHERWISE, YOUR POLICY DOES NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR SINKHOLE LOSSES. YOU MAY PURCHASE ADDITIONAL COVERAGE FOR SINKHOLE LOSSES FOR AN ADDITIONAL PREMIUM."

So, in this tragic case its likely fully covered, however unless you paid a sizable additional premium, if you have a giant hole open up in your yard, swallow your driveway and shed, but not cause "structural" damage, too bad so sad.  Likewise, if the hole opens up over a week but not a few hours, and causes widespread cracking that doesn't quite make it to "structural" level, SOL also.
 
2013-03-01 03:09:58 PM
When buying a house in Fl. make sure the seller provides a sinkhole probability study. If all is well they provide a certificate so if something does happen you have someone to sue for damages. Not to expensive and saves you on homeowners insurance.
 
2013-03-01 03:11:36 PM
PunGent: Dang.

So what do you do if you want to buy a house down there? Hire GP radar? too expensive?

Pray?



J.Shelby:  When I bought my house, I completely ignored the sinkhole issue, mostly because its not an issue.  In spite of crazy stories like this, its incredibly rare.  You're much more likely to be struck by lightning than have a sinkhole under your house.  Also, sinkhole insurance covers damage, and personal injury is almost unheard of.

Sinkhole problems are pretty common, and are becoming moreso with Florida's ever expanding population and the drain on the water table (plant city strawberry farmers anyone). Dramatic overnight loss of life and/or property are much less common and generally only happen about once a year. Most sinkhole damage happens as damage to the foundation that needs immediate remediation to ensure the house remains livable; this is so common that there is an ongoing battle over insurance fraud and insurance rates in Florida over it. A couple of years ago Hillsborough county insurance companies wanted to raise their premiums something like 500% in one year on ALL customers just to cover sinkhole claims and related frauds; I think state regulators ended up giving them something like a 30% hike.

As for detecting a sinkhole before you buy a house, there's really no good way to know for sure. Pretty much you inspect the house and make sure there are no cracks in the walls/windows and doors fit right, either which would indicate the ground under the hosue is moving. And then you pay a high premium for sinkhole insurance and hope you never have to file a claim. So yeah, prey.

Generally, when you file a claim, the insurnace company will come out and do a blow count test, which is generally more reliable than GPR, which can only detect features at a limited depth. Essentially, they take a steel rod and drive it into the ground using a standard weight dropped from a standard height and calculate how far the rod moves with each set of blows. If it takes only a few blows to drive the rod further into the ground, you're in topsoil. If you've hit the rod X times with the weight and it's not moving, you're at the top of rock. Usually they'll do 3-6 tests around the house. If you find out that on the west side of your property, the top of rock is 15 feet down, but on the east side, you find the top of rock is 85 feet down, you're probably sitting on a sinkhole. At that point your insurance will pay out for remediation on the foundation if the house isn't a total loss.

I suppose one could test this way before you bought the property, but these sorts of surveys are pretty expensive. They're a big industry in Florida, and Starscream1690 could probably tell it better, since he works in the industry.
 
2013-03-01 03:16:16 PM
I amused myself by looking through the pictures are doing a mental find and replace...   Sinkhole shiathole.

It was fun.
 
2013-03-01 03:21:57 PM
There was a note taped to the edge of the sinkhole:

Dear people:
Please leave. I'm sick of you. You're crazy and you're destroying my alligators and key dear. I miss my panthers.
Signed,
Florida
 
2013-03-01 03:25:57 PM

Another Government Employee: StrikitRich: Winter Park scoffs at your puny sinkhole.  Get back when it's eaten half a dozen Porsches and a Winnebago.

I remember that.  I was living on Corrine back then.

Didn't they turn it into a park?


Used to go by there on my way to Enterprise 1701.
 
2013-03-01 03:27:30 PM
Elegy:

Generally, when you file a claim, the insurnace company will come out and do a blow count test, which is generally more reliable than GPR, which can only detect features at a limited depth. Essentially, they take a steel rod and drive it into the ground using a standard weight dropped from a standard height and calculate how far the rod moves with each set of blows. ...

Sounds like this ain't your first rodeo.  Yep, GPR, and its counterpart electrical resistivity imaging (ERI, which the engineers shown in the video that USA Today has up right now are doing incorrectly (I'd point this out in their comments but it links through FB)) give you a good idea what's going on but they are far from infallible in an urban environment with tons of anthropogenic interference.  The standard penetration test borings are what really confirm or deny a claim.

Of course in this case it's gone a good bit past confirming sinkhole activity, now they are just trying to get a grasp on how big the hole will end up being, and how much concrete will have to be used to shore it up.
 
2013-03-01 03:33:51 PM
The mighty Sarlacc demands a human sacrifice!
 
2013-03-01 03:46:24 PM
Fark Rebel Soldier
Andromeda Strain, 1971.
/come at me bro
 
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