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(Washington Post)   Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 171
    More: Stupid, Washington DC, Children's National Medical Center, Arlington County, lack of sleep, sports practices, middle schools, school systems  
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3545 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2013 at 4:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-28 08:18:54 PM
Back in my day we had to sleep uphill in the snow, BOTH WAYS.
 
2013-02-28 08:21:44 PM
I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.
 
2013-02-28 08:31:08 PM
The whole point of getting kids up early every morning and forcing them to go somewhere they hate for the rest of the day is to get them used to what the rest of their lives will be like.
 
2013-02-28 08:31:22 PM

coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.


I always started at 7:30.
 
2013-02-28 08:33:48 PM

GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.


I'm probably older than you (33 years old). I've noticed that school has started earlier and earlier.
 
2013-02-28 08:38:18 PM
We started at 8:30, with a 'flex' option available for 7:30 classes. I did that senior year. Boy, did I regret it.  I can't even imagine trying to take, say, AP Cal at 7:15 am. Ugh.

What idiot had the terrible idea to start school so early anyway? If I were a parent, I wouldn't want to get up that damn early either. Life begins at 7am, no sooner. Unless you want me to be homicidal for the day.
 
2013-02-28 08:41:50 PM

coco ebert: GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.

I'm probably older than you (33 years old). I've noticed that school has started earlier and earlier.


Only by half a decade.  And I'm just talking about high school.  I don't even remember when middle or elementary school started.
 
2013-02-28 08:49:14 PM
This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.
 
2013-02-28 08:55:03 PM
I grew up in a town that was part redneck and part preppy, and not once did I hear the farm kids biatch about getting up at 4:00am for milking and the rest of the chores, before going to school. The lawyers' and doctors' kids, on the other hand, would piss and moan about having to roll in at 8:00.

Give them the option of coming in an hour late but staying 90 minutes later, or coming in an hour early but leaving 90 minutes early...and let's see who's willing to get up early and bust a hump.

/been getting up before 5am since I was 10
//lawn. off
 
2013-02-28 08:56:11 PM
There is research and established science to support this, subby. What do you have?
 
2013-02-28 08:59:41 PM
BTW I taught a 7:30 am class this morning (college). I hate it. The students hate it. Had to send one home because she was so hung-over I was afraid she would puke.


True story
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-28 09:32:52 PM

GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.


8:00 am is the earliest I ever started.
 
2013-02-28 09:40:39 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


My district tried to do this for the 7th and 8th graders because everything we did was research-based, but the logistics were impossible. The transportation department rules the world in public schools.
 
2013-02-28 09:41:52 PM
Who you callin' "nappy", subby?
 
2013-02-28 09:49:25 PM
Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.
 
2013-02-28 10:02:06 PM

coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am


The  worst part is that while high school starts at 7:17, elementary starts at 9:20. If you work out of the home you have to pay for daycare unless you don't need to be at work before 10:15 or even 11 if you work in the city.
 
2013-02-28 10:03:56 PM
As someone who had to be in his desk by 8:05 every morning I can't believe that people are expecting teenagers to be productive at even earlier times.

Make them go to school from 10-6 rather than 7-3, they'll be happier...the parents will be happier...

Really, what's the down-side again?
 
2013-02-28 10:07:36 PM

PainInTheASP: As someone who had to be in his desk by 8:05 every morning I can't believe that people are expecting teenagers to be productive at even earlier times.

Make them go to school from 10-6 rather than 7-3, they'll be happier...the parents will be happier...

Really, what's the down-side again?


AT!  AT MY DESK!  DON'T START! YES, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY!
 
2013-02-28 10:38:45 PM
It is obvious what started this. Washington DC has the highest percentage of gays and lesbians. Gays and lesbians are known for having children when they are wanted and when they are financially and emotionally ready for children. They also had harder times in school. This means that Washington DC has a higher percentage of parents who really care for their children.

It's truly sick. Just because they love and appreciate their children more than a lot of straight parents doesn't mean that they can change school tradition for the rest of us.
 
2013-02-28 10:40:23 PM
School started at 8:15 when I was a kid. I took a 7:30 class my first semester in college. fark that!
Now I have to get up before 7:00 to get to work in the eastern time zone, but my body is still on central.
#firstworldproblems
 
2013-02-28 10:40:35 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


This. Teenagers need more sleep, need to sleep later in the day, and are wired to stay up later at night. Starting school later would resolve a lot of these issues.

I'm in Las Vegas and our high schools start around 7 am; report time for teachers is 630 - one of the reasons I decided to take a job at a charter school. I'm not functional at 630 in the morning, I can't even imagine what the teens feel like at that hour.

However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.
 
2013-02-28 10:40:35 PM
Swing shift needs drones, too
 
2013-02-28 10:42:30 PM

Kimothy: Teenagers need more sleep, need to sleep later in the day, and are wired to stay up later at night.


F*ck, I'm still wired that way.  If I can fall into a schedule where I sleep whenever I want, I inevitably sleep from 2-10.
 
2013-02-28 10:44:02 PM

GAT_00: Kimothy: Teenagers need more sleep, need to sleep later in the day, and are wired to stay up later at night.

F*ck, I'm still wired that way.  If I can fall into a schedule where I sleep whenever I want, I inevitably sleep from 2-10.


Me too. When I have time off and don't have to take classes, I live on that schedule.
 
2013-02-28 10:53:58 PM
I always found it weird that the time in my life when I was most likely to sleep until noon on the weekends (without help from adult beverages) was also the time that my weekdays started the earliest. I feel like this is a good idea as long as they can get the buses to cooperate.
 
2013-02-28 10:58:09 PM

coco ebert: GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.

I'm probably older than you (33 years old). I've noticed that school has started earlier and earlier.


My elementary school started at 9, middle school at 8, and high school at 7:30

/27 years old
 
2013-02-28 11:08:00 PM

FreakinB: coco ebert: GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.

I'm probably older than you (33 years old). I've noticed that school has started earlier and earlier.

My elementary school started at 9, middle school at 8, and high school at 7:30

/27 years old


Yeah I meant elementary school. I should have clarified
 
2013-02-28 11:25:50 PM
I had to be up by 6:30, hit the bus at 7:05, and be at school by 7:55.
I would spend the first part of the day half asleep. If they had proposed layer start times, I would have bee ecstatic.
 
2013-02-28 11:38:38 PM
We started at 7:55 in high school. We also had a A-B day block schedule, and by my Junior year, I had first and second period IWE assignments for the vocational electronics and A/V departments

/no one knew WTF I was doing for the first two hours of the school day
//I slept often
///Senior year was even more of a coast, if you can imagine that
 
2013-02-28 11:39:16 PM
Like it matters what time the school day starts.  The kid will still stay up late, sleep till the last possible moment and then complain about being tired.  There will always be that one class that your kid will sleep through.  Watch, change the start time to noon and the kids will stay up till 5 am then won't get up before 11:15 am, and will fall asleep in the third class.  I know this from experience, my 17 yro son before homeschooling was up 15 min before he needed to leave for school.  Now, no matter what time his first class of the day is to start online, he gets up 15 min before.  He has woke us up in the middle of the night doing stuff in his room, thinking we can't hear him since his room is in the basement and away from our room.  They're like giant toddlers that can tell time, they can sleep anywhere anytime.  My kid falls asleep in the truck five min after we leave the house every time the ride is longer than 20 min.

/besides I used to do the same thing
 
2013-02-28 11:44:19 PM
Well I get up at seven (yay) and I go to work by nine. Got no time for living, yes I'm working all the time.
 
2013-03-01 12:03:30 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: Well I get up at seven (yay) and I go to work by nine. Got no time for living, yes I'm working all the time.


seems to me you could live your life, a lot better than you think you are
 
2013-03-01 12:05:04 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


It also seems like kids are allowed to stay up later.  I used to have an 8pm bedtime when I was in elementary school, but I've seen little kids up at 10, 11 pm on schoolnights.  It's crazy.
 
2013-03-01 12:25:07 AM

Kimothy: GAT_00: Kimothy: Teenagers need more sleep, need to sleep later in the day, and are wired to stay up later at night.

F*ck, I'm still wired that way.  If I can fall into a schedule where I sleep whenever I want, I inevitably sleep from 2-10.

Me too. When I have time off and don't have to take classes, I live on that schedule.


That's my schedule, also. I'm looking forward to it for the next two weeks. Spring break, then a surgery, so another week off. I'll get so much writing done.
 
2013-03-01 12:37:38 AM
Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.
 
2013-03-01 01:04:01 AM
Sounds good, it's not like I remember anything from my first hour classes..

When I started Junior High, 7th grade, I had to be picked up at the bus stop at 7 AM.  Same for 8th grade.  I was looking forward to a slightly later start in high school.. then they added the 6th grade to Junior High, and swapped the times for Junior High and High School.. so, 7 AM for 6 years for me..

Course, these last few years I get off work at 7 AM.
 
2013-03-01 01:19:54 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


this waking us early crap for school always made me crazy. there have been tons of studies which have shown that kids who are still waking up do crappy in school.

good thing that all the parents care about is that school is baby sitting their crotch spawn so that they can get to work.

dont even get me started about morning people about night people. sigh
 
2013-03-01 01:22:24 AM

coco ebert: GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.

I'm probably older than you (33 years old). I've noticed that school has started earlier and earlier.


First class started at 7:20 for me, and I had to be at the bus stop at 6:00 for the hour long ride, all us rural kids had to be bussed into the city for high school, before that we rode our bikes to the more local jr high. They started high school that early because the same buses had to turn back around and deal with the younger kids and their schools an hour and a half later. It sucked so much at the time, but I think it did give me good early bird habits. And hell, getting out of school before 2pm was nice.
 
2013-03-01 01:25:14 AM
Headlines throughout the Fark.com area announce plans to start making articles that are perfectly reasonable seem asinine so everyone can see who are the precious, tired widdle snowflakes who don't bother to read the article.
 
2013-03-01 04:19:51 AM
My Catholic high school started at 8:05, though most area public high schools started around 9 back then. Same with grade school, started earlier than than the local public school. Which had one advantage, easy to get home and catch some extra cartoons in the afternoon.
 
2013-03-01 04:49:00 AM

coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.


This.
 
2013-03-01 04:55:11 AM
Subby never went to school by the looks of things

/getting up ludicrously early to listen to assclown teachers didn't help me learn
//though the woodshop/mechanics teacher was badass, threw shiat if you were sleeping, knew how to wake a biatch up
///why I didn't sleep in the class, besides those classes being awesome
 
2013-03-01 04:55:38 AM
You assholes and your sleep schedules.

/shift worker
 
2013-03-01 04:57:17 AM
You know what I find sad?

We tout ourselves as the greatest country in the World, yet school breakfast and lunches are sometimes the only meals a child can be guaranteed to get.

We can "liberate" Iraq, we can send BILLIONS in aid overseas, but we can't feed our own people.
 
2013-03-01 04:57:34 AM
The hell, subby? 25 years old, and we started at 7:20. Our middle school started at 7:10. I occasionally slept through my 1st hour class. Still studied my arse off and aced everything, though.

My dad has always worked overnight, and I think I inherited my default sleep schedule from him. I will gladly sleep all day and stay up all night working. Hell, I'm doing it now.
 
2013-03-01 05:04:42 AM
Elementary school started at either 8:30 or 9:15 (alternated at each school in the district each year). Middle school was 7:45, high school was 7:30, but I was there by 6:45 for AV/TV stuff.

I was given a key to the school and the classroom for that.
 
2013-03-01 05:04:49 AM
Students would do much better in school if the hours were from 10:00 am to 5:00 pm.
 
2013-03-01 05:09:16 AM
Subby misses the good ol' days of forced child labor mixed with beatings for urchins so they'd know their place.
 
2013-03-01 05:10:54 AM

Kimothy: However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.


Tail wagging the dog a bit there, ain't it?

Make the kids who play sports get up in the morning to do that, let everybody else sleep in. It's an optional extracurricular, they should have to work around the school schedule, not the other way around.
 
2013-03-01 05:12:09 AM

Ishkur: The whole point of getting kids up early every morning and forcing them to go somewhere they hate for the rest of the day is to get them used to what the rest of their lives will be like.


Then why can't they drink beer at night?

It's fairly easy to get up early when you're a kid - not so much as an adult who drank 15 beers the night before.
 
2013-03-01 05:12:17 AM
Sounds like subby could use a little more nappy time.
 
2013-03-01 05:12:23 AM

the_colors: My dad has always worked overnight, and I think I inherited my default sleep schedule from him. I will gladly sleep all day and stay up all night working. Hell, I'm doing it now.


Same, my sleep schedule is farked right now. I've been trying to set it straight, but I've been having trouble making it past 3 or 4 in the afternoon.
 
2013-03-01 05:19:50 AM

Gulper Eel: I grew up in a town that was part redneck and part preppy, and not once did I hear the farm kids biatch about getting up at 4:00am for milking and the rest of the chores, before going to school. The lawyers' and doctors' kids, on the other hand, would piss and moan about having to roll in at 8:00.

Give them the option of coming in an hour late but staying 90 minutes later, or coming in an hour early but leaving 90 minutes early...and let's see who's willing to get up early and bust a hump.

/been getting up before 5am since I was 10
//lawn. off


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-03-01 05:21:03 AM
i915.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-01 05:21:39 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.

My district tried to do this for the 7th and 8th graders because everything we did was research-based, but the logistics were impossible. The transportation department rules the world in public schools.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and that, too.
 
2013-03-01 05:28:22 AM
Perhaps using the term 'nappy' in a story about Washington, DC schools may not have been the best choice.
Just sayin'.
 
2013-03-01 05:30:43 AM

cptjeff: Kimothy: However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.

Tail wagging the dog a bit there, ain't it?

Make the kids who play sports get up in the morning to do that, let everybody else sleep in. It's an optional extracurricular, they should have to work around the school schedule, not the other way around.


How 'bout not playing football in the farking desert?
 
2013-03-01 05:43:30 AM

goatleggedfellow: cptjeff: Kimothy: However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.

Tail wagging the dog a bit there, ain't it?

Make the kids who play sports get up in the morning to do that, let everybody else sleep in. It's an optional extracurricular, they should have to work around the school schedule, not the other way around.

How 'bout not playing football in the farking desert?


Because it's a goddamn sacred cow, that's why.
 
2013-03-01 05:48:49 AM

doglover: Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.


At least somebody realizes the real reason behind this is to give the Union thug teachers some extra rack time.

 If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping
 
2013-03-01 05:59:46 AM

whistleridge: We started at 8:30, with a 'flex' option available for 7:30 classes. I did that senior year. Boy, did I regret it.  I can't even imagine trying to take, say, AP Cal at 7:15 am. Ugh.

What idiot had the terrible idea to start school so early anyway? If I were a parent, I wouldn't want to get up that damn early either. Life begins at 7am, no sooner. Unless you want me to be homicidal for the day.


The way the logic was explained to me, school starts earlier than people go to work so that parents can bring their kids to school before they go to work, or have them on the bus and gone before they have to go to work... or something like that.  It made a little amount of sense, and it worked out that way anyway: High School started at 8:30am, and most people start work at 9am.

What I've noticed now is that the average work day for the American worker is being shifted back more and more.  My last job started off with me coming to work at 7am, and when we switched to a "four-9's and a four" schedule work started at 6am.  People I talked to would say things like "you should have a normal 8am start time like me."  I can't help but think the two things are directly related.  For whatever reason, companies are in the mindset that workers need to be starting earlier all of the sudden, and so schools are shifting their schedules to match.

Anyway, more on point, 8:30am was stretching it when I was in High School.  The few times we had to do 7am starts my brain was melting, even if I'd gotten enough sleep.  I was not the exception to the rule either.  The only High School students I ever knew who were "morning people" either were straight-A 4.0 overachievers or drank a f%$#ton of caffeine.  The rest of us normal people were meat popsicles until about 9-ish.
 
2013-03-01 05:59:56 AM

hasty ambush: If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.


Are we filming or something?
 
2013-03-01 06:04:44 AM

Gulper Eel: I grew up in a town that was part redneck and part preppy, and not once did I hear the farm kids biatch about getting up at 4:00am for milking and the rest of the chores, before going to school. The lawyers' and doctors' kids, on the other hand, would piss and moan about having to roll in at 8:00.

Give them the option of coming in an hour late but staying 90 minutes later, or coming in an hour early but leaving 90 minutes early...and let's see who's willing to get up early and bust a hump.

/been getting up before 5am since I was 10
//lawn. off


Farm families come from generations and generations of people who have naturally early schedules.  There is an honest-to-god genetic difference, to say nothing of the cultural ones.

Your post up there has all the impact of "why can't your wiener dog keep up with you when you run?  My greyhound can outrun me, so yours should be able to manage."
 
2013-03-01 06:08:15 AM
Whatever gets the busses out of my way when I'm driving to work.
 
2013-03-01 06:08:31 AM
I like to sleep late in the morning
I don't like to wear no shoes
 
2013-03-01 06:08:59 AM

hasty ambush: doglover: Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.

At least somebody realizes the real reason behind this is to give the Union thug teachers some extra rack time.

 If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping


Yeah!  It's not like there are scientific studies that prove that teenagers perform better at school if they sleep later and their day starts later!  If they're doing better at school then it logically follows that they'll have better opportunities in life.  Let me put it in terms you may find easier to understand: teenagers who get the extra sleep automatically grow bigger bootstraps.  Why are you against that?

Maybe your experiences with 0600 wake ups are the reason why you can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're"?
 
2013-03-01 06:10:04 AM
Crap, I always hate getting up at 5:00 just to make the bus.
 
2013-03-01 06:17:04 AM
Pshaw. In the Army we got done by 9 AM than most people do all day.
 
2013-03-01 06:19:51 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


Of course because they are still growing.  And learning a crapload of new stuff is a lot easier with a good night's sleep.

I don't know why this issue is even under debate, unless there are tough guys here that want to out-bookstrap everyone else.

/bonus - annoying teenagers are stuck in school later in day, which means annoying teenagers are not out in public at 3 in the frickin' afternoon
 
2013-03-01 06:22:45 AM

hasty ambush: doglover: Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.

At least somebody realizes the real reason behind this is to give the Union thug teachers some extra rack time.

 If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping


Trololol :)

It's a good thing they invented useful artificial lighting a few hundred years ago... Otherwise I wouldn't be able to roll in to my office somewhere between 11 and noon and work until between 9pm and midnight.

I get my shiat done. What do you care when I get it done on any given day?
 
2013-03-01 06:30:59 AM
I don't think anything should ever be improved for anybody because I'm a miserable turd.

/subby
 
2013-03-01 06:32:14 AM
Wow, Subby is a dick.
 
2013-03-01 06:36:53 AM
Is this another thread where conservatives say the only way to do things is the lousy way they had to do it, and that punishment is the only way to teach?
 
2013-03-01 06:38:45 AM

The Envoy: Yeah!  It's not like there are scientific studies that prove that teenagers perform better at school if they sleep later and their day starts later!  If they're doing better at school then it logically follows that they'll have better opportunities in life.  Let me put it in terms you may find easier to understand: teenagers who get the extra sleep automatically grow bigger bootstraps.  Why are you against that?


Do those scientific studies show that it's the time of the DAY that schoolchildren get up, or HOW MUCH sleep they get?

Because far be it from me to suggest that if they're still tired at 7:00 in the morning, maybe they need to be in bed, ya know, like BEFORE midnight?

I dunno, the way things are today, making your kid go to bed before midnight would probably make some people scream "child abuse".
 
2013-03-01 06:43:55 AM
Try to find a job that lets you sleep in so you can go to porn sites all night.
 
2013-03-01 06:44:03 AM
Efforts to ease sleep deprivation among teenagers...

Go to bed earlier, like normal people.

/oops, it's 4:43am. Time to hit the sack.
 
2013-03-01 06:44:39 AM

Southern100: The Envoy: Yeah!  It's not like there are scientific studies that prove that teenagers perform better at school if they sleep later and their day starts later!  If they're doing better at school then it logically follows that they'll have better opportunities in life.  Let me put it in terms you may find easier to understand: teenagers who get the extra sleep automatically grow bigger bootstraps.  Why are you against that?

Do those scientific studies show that it's the time of the DAY that schoolchildren get up, or HOW MUCH sleep they get?

Because far be it from me to suggest that if they're still tired at 7:00 in the morning, maybe they need to be in bed, ya know, like BEFORE midnight?

I dunno, the way things are today, making your kid go to bed before midnight would probably make some people scream "child abuse".


You could...you know, look up the studies. But nah, you're right, the stupid eggheads, they never even thought to THINK about how much sleep they get.
 
2013-03-01 06:47:53 AM

timujin: Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.


Could you provide the resources for these alleged researches you speak of, or should we just take your word because you sleep in?
 
2013-03-01 06:49:44 AM

chatikh: It is obvious what started this. Washington DC has the highest percentage of gays and lesbians. Gays and lesbians are known for having children when they are wanted and when they are financially and emotionally ready for children. They also had harder times in school. This means that Washington DC has a higher percentage of parents who really care for their children.

It's truly sick. Just because they love and appreciate their children more than a lot of straight parents doesn't mean that they can change school tradition for the rest of us.


I'm gay, fecked if I want any yard apes around.
 
2013-03-01 06:51:50 AM
That both parents often work seem to be a point missed by anyone expressing surprise that school starts early.

If school starts at 7ish, most parents can get the kids to school before work.  Push school start time past 8 and people start needing before school help to manage that feat.

Realities sometime need to be factored in sometimes.
 
2013-03-01 06:52:32 AM

ghare: You could...you know, look up the studies.


Link your source, or we'll think you just pulled one out of your butt.

Because every study I've ever seen shows it's the amount of sleep you get, not what time of the day you finally decide to drag your ass out of bed, that determines how well you do in school.
 
2013-03-01 06:53:14 AM

BronyMedic: You know what I find sad?

We tout ourselves as the greatest country in the World, yet school breakfast and lunches are sometimes the only meals a child can be guaranteed to get.

We can "liberate" Iraq, we can send BILLIONS in aid overseas, but we can't feed our own people.


And some crazy people want to take even that away.
 
2013-03-01 06:59:00 AM
Currently, school starts here at 7:50 for elementary, 8:20 for middle school, and 8:50 for high school.  I think that's reasonable, and probably backed up by science.  Lord knows the school district has to squeeze in science somewhere when we're teaching our kids about the 6000 year old fossils.

When I was a kid, in another part of the state, our classes started about an hour earlier, and I didn't really mind--even went to "zero" period before school my senior year.  Of course, I'm one of those fossils.
 
2013-03-01 06:59:36 AM
I just found out my temporary transfer to a division that starts at 7am instead of 10am is permanant, so I ain't even gonna hate.
 
2013-03-01 07:03:18 AM
 
2013-03-01 07:03:34 AM
Back in high school I started at 6:10am...yeeah I would have liked to sleep in more.  Granted, I was finished by 12:30...
 
2013-03-01 07:10:07 AM
Basically, teens don't get enough sleep because they experience a phase delay.  They can't get to sleep when everyone else does, so they stay up late.  Then they must get up early for school, and as a result, they build up a sleep deficit that ends up hitting them on the weekend.  No scientific papers here, but definitely a few scientists talking about it:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6896471

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/interviews/c ar skadon.html
 
2013-03-01 07:14:10 AM
My son goes to a special needs school and the old one went to 8th grade so now he's is a different school. They do something that's brilliant IMHO. Realizing that some kids are morning kids and some kids aren't every day the schedule rotates. Monday is class 1 2 3 4 5 6. Tuesday is is 2 3 4 5 6 1. Wednesday is 3 4 5 6 1 2. Ed etc. this way if you aren't a morning person your entire school year of geometry at 8 doesn't fark you for that class.

I'm guessing stubby doesn't have kids. Or read. Because studies show that starting school before a certain hour has a negative effect on learning. It's the same reason college kids who take a Saturday 8am class generally don't do as we'll as the same class held later in the day (studies have shown this) and managers who call for meetings before 8am are despised. If this weren't the case, we could just send kids to class at midnight and be done with it.
 
2013-03-01 07:19:36 AM
Southern100:
Because every study I've ever seen shows it's the amount of sleep you get, not what time of the day you finally decide to drag your ass out of bed, that determines how well you do in school.

There's a relationship between amount and timing.  Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up.  You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet."  Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.
 
2013-03-01 07:34:51 AM

yukichigai: Farm families come from generations and generations of people who have naturally early schedules. There is an honest-to-god genetic difference, to say nothing of the cultural ones.


Citation?

Because I don't think genetics can cause that much of a difference between farm kids and everybody else, even if a kid's a tenth-generation farmer.
 
2013-03-01 07:35:14 AM

Southern100: Here, let me google that for you.


Here, let me google something relevant for you:
http://www.cehd.umn.edu/research/highlights/Sleep/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8579951.stm
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/201102/do-l at er-school-start-times-really-help-high-school-students

Or put another way:

CarloSkippy: There's a relationship between amount and timing. Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up. You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet." Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.

 
2013-03-01 07:46:18 AM

CarloSkippy: There's a relationship between amount and timing. Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up. You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet." Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.


Then seeing as they don't want to go to bed just yet, they clearly have time for more term papers.
 
2013-03-01 08:04:44 AM

chatikh: It is obvious what started this. Washington DC has the highest percentage of gays and lesbians. Gays and lesbians are known for having children when they are wanted and when they are financially and emotionally ready for children. They also had harder times in school. This means that Washington DC has a higher percentage of parents who really care for their children.

It's truly sick. Just because they love and appreciate their children more than a lot of straight parents doesn't mean that they can change school tradition for the rest of us.


I can see that your Jump To Conclusions game came in.
 
2013-03-01 08:11:33 AM
It's the nation's capitol
not much makes sense here
 
2013-03-01 08:11:53 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


revrendjim: There is research and established science to support this, subby. What do you have?

timujin: Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.

These.

I'm guessing the stupid tag is for subby.
 
2013-03-01 08:13:39 AM

The Envoy: Southern100: Here, let me google that for you.

Here, let me google something relevant for you:
http://www.cehd.umn.edu/research/highlights/Sleep/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8579951.stm
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/201102/do-l at er-school-start-times-really-help-high-school-students

Or put another way:

CarloSkippy: There's a relationship between amount and timing. Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up. You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet." Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.


Thank you Envoy, those were quite informative.. Well, the first 2, anyway - that last one was garbage. :)

I will agree that studies will show that children that get to start the day later will do better, but that's because they're *getting more sleep*.. Even the first article you linked shows that kids today don't even go to sleep until 11pm.. Sheeeeeet, I was already sawing logs for 3 hours by that time (on a school night). :)

I'll also agree that (many) children don't want to go to sleep early - there's simply too much for them to do these days (that many of us old farts couldn't do 30-40 years ago)... Play Xbox, play on the computer, txt their friends on their mobile phones until 2 in the morning, watch 500 channels of TV, etc.. Hell, only time I ever got to watch Johnny Carson was on Friday night. :p

Personally, I think it has more to do with parents LETTING their children stay up until 11pm.   And yes, I'm one of them - we never really enforced "strict bedtimes" with our children either, and today they're suffering for it.  NOW, in their 20's they tell us they have to go to bed early because they have to be up at 6, get ready, and commute to be at work by 7:30.  We laugh about it, but it's not really funny.
 
2013-03-01 08:15:42 AM

illbeinmybunk: My son goes to a special needs school and the old one went to 8th grade so now he's is a different school. They do something that's brilliant IMHO. Realizing that some kids are morning kids and some kids aren't every day the schedule rotates. Monday is class 1 2 3 4 5 6. Tuesday is is 2 3 4 5 6 1. Wednesday is 3 4 5 6 1 2. Ed etc. this way if you aren't a morning person your entire school year of geometry at 8 doesn't fark you for that class.


This is what my high school schedule was like (except it was a 7 class rotation, 5/day), and both students and teachers loved it. Sadly they abandoned it after I graduated because the county wanted all the schools to be on the same schedule (coincidentally, the same Howard County as in the article).

As for later starts...maybe I was an exceptionally strange teen, but I was never a late sleeper. I was always able to get my ass out of bed and to the bus on time, and even when I started driving I'd leave the house early so I wouldn't get stuck behind buses on my way to school. Sure I was tired, but then again, I'm an adult now and am tired at 8 in the morning at work too.
 
2013-03-01 08:19:01 AM
Not having children standing in the dark waiting for the bus and not having buses in the thick of commuter traffic are good enough reasons to alter school start time.
 
2013-03-01 08:24:36 AM

zepillin: I like to sleep late in the morning
I don't like to wear no shoes


LONG HAIRED FREAK!
 
2013-03-01 08:28:44 AM
I'm a pretty strict believer in the early bird getting the GD worm, but I will admit, sleeping in until 7:30 on weekends feel damn good. As for when I have kids, I hope their start time coincides with my work schedule.
 
2013-03-01 08:34:07 AM

Alunan: Back in my day we had to sleep uphill in the snow, BOTH WAYS.


Done in one
 
2013-03-01 08:39:46 AM
Enough with the farking snowflake thing.. jesus internet have you even listened to yourself lately? The crotchetiness is getting out of control.
 
2013-03-01 08:48:40 AM
Stupid? No, smart.

/clueless subby is clueless
 
2013-03-01 08:49:11 AM
when you need x hours of sleep, I dont see how moving those hours over by 1 helps do anything besides makes 10s of thousands of parents and babysitters and whatnot have to adjust their daily schedule accordingly. after working all 3 shifts I can say 1st is most rewarding. its nice to have sunny afternoons to do whatever I want.
 
2013-03-01 08:56:28 AM

Ishkur: The whole point of getting kids up early every morning and forcing them to go somewhere they hate for the rest of the day is to get them used to what the rest of their lives will be like.


this is why there are bells in schools, to get kids used to responding to the bells in factory work

Well you know, when there were factory's here, long time ago.

TheOriginalEd: Enough with the farking snowflake thing.. jesus internet have you even listened to yourself lately? The crotchetiness is getting out of control.


this
 
2013-03-01 08:58:19 AM

natas6.0: It's the nation's capitol
not much makes sense here


Except for this time it does.
 
2013-03-01 09:03:15 AM
The school that I teach at used to start at 7:15am.  We'd have over 100 kids show up late every day, all lined up outside the attendance office to get passes, and they'd parade into class half an hour late to school.

Solution:  Administration and teachers voted for the next school year to push the start time to 8:35.

The result: Over 200 kids per day showing up late to school...many carrying Starbucks cups or Jack in the Box bags.  Also, athletics had to be moved into the last period of the day, so people on sports teams ended up missing out on a period of academic instruction (school had no field lights, plus neighborhood was/is dangerous as hell after dark)

The result of that:  School starts at 7:30 now, and kids that show up late more than twice in a semester are banned from sporting events, field trips, dances, etc...unless they make them up in detention after school.  Shockingly, lateness dropped.  Go figure.
 
2013-03-01 09:06:15 AM
Have they found a cure yet for those wake up 7:30, wash your ears they're dirty, eat your eggs and oatmeal, rush to school blues?
 
2013-03-01 09:08:54 AM
I am a HS educator and have done a lot of reading on this subject as our board recently pushed start times earlier by an hour. (Not for students totally to save money on buses)

If you look at all the studies done on teenage brain development teen brains actually show as being nocturnal. It is actually their brains telling them to stay up late and sleep in. Numerous studies show that later start times benefit kids academically with a measurable increase in marks and retention of information. Ideally High schools would run 11-5 or  12-6 if we were really scheduling it for the kids.

Ya that would be a mess for the rest of us but when schools start at 7 it makes you wonder who they are doing it for.
 
2013-03-01 09:09:30 AM

revrendjim: There is research and established science to support this, subby. What do you have?


He has his lawn to watch...
 
2013-03-01 09:16:49 AM
It's a school, not a free baby-sitting service for Mr. and Mrs. Snowflake.
 
2013-03-01 09:20:38 AM
My daughter likes to play the alarm game.  The first alarm goes off and then she resets it for a half an hour later, then she starts resetting it for every 15 minutes.  This always results in me driving like crazy to get her to school on time, which she rarely is.  7:20 is pretty early to start school, especially up here in the north where the sun doesn't come up until halfway through first period.
 
2013-03-01 09:24:27 AM
"Stupid"? I think this is a great idea! Later school start (and therefore end) times mean everyone gets more sleep, less money gets spent on child care before and after school for younger kids, less time spent alone and unsupervised for the older kids, kids learn better. Seriously, I don't see the downside.
 
2013-03-01 09:26:09 AM
Lucky bastards
 
2013-03-01 09:32:23 AM
Our school always started at 8:15. It may be because, where I lived, everyone walked to school. I can't imagine having to walk to school at 6:30 in the morning, when it's often still dark.

I joined the Army after high school and quickly learned that sleeping until 7 am is a luxury. I've been out of the service for fifteen years now, and I still wake up at 5 am. No idea why.
 
2013-03-01 09:32:41 AM
Cry some moar DC.  High school started at 7:30 AM for me, but the upside to that was that we got out at 1:30.  1:30!  We had practically the whole day left! That's more than a fair compromise for getting up early. Elementary school, though, started at 9:30 and middle school was 8:30 I believe.
 
2013-03-01 09:36:35 AM
It's not stupid. Studies show even small increments of 15 min of extra sleep make HUGE differences in a young mind's ability to take in more information.
 
2013-03-01 09:42:21 AM

megalynn44: It's not stupid. Studies show even small increments of 15 min of extra sleep make HUGE differences in a young mind's ability to take in more information.


It's almost as if sleeping until one wakes up naturally is the best way to start the day.  Too bad that won't make anyone any money.
 
2013-03-01 09:46:40 AM
I've adjusted to early, late, and nocturnal schedules in my life. Even at 31 I still need about nine hours if I want to perform well. I'm not unsympathetic to these kids.

Yes, kids need more sleep. But why does it have to be in the morning? Put them to farking bed.
 
2013-03-01 09:51:20 AM
shut up subby, you have no idea of what you speak.
I live in a poorer neighborhood (hey cheap rent)
My last job I worked as a baker, and I'd have to be at work at 5, sometimes 4am.
Every morning at 5am, kids are outside waiting for the bus on my street as I'm driving to work.
But why?  Because the bus routes and school redistricting and forced bussing cause 1-2 hour bus rides to school. Sometimes longer.
This is done by design, and it is wretchedly disgusting.  This never happens in more affluent neighborhoods.
 
2013-03-01 09:53:18 AM

GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.


I supposed you didn't have to do chores or milk any cows before school.
/up at 5 AM.
 
2013-03-01 09:55:42 AM
7:30 is nucking futz. It was always 9:00 when I went to school and that was too early.
 
2013-03-01 09:56:31 AM
Egad.  If brap jr. has to go to school that early, I sure as hell ain't taking him.

Thank goodness the little scruffer seems content with making shoes in the basement.
 
2013-03-01 10:07:39 AM
fark you, subby, right in your eyehole. Seriously, you have no farking idea what you are talking about and you should keep your whore mouth shut.
 
2013-03-01 10:34:45 AM

Gulper Eel: yukichigai: Farm families come from generations and generations of people who have naturally early schedules. There is an honest-to-god genetic difference, to say nothing of the cultural ones.

Citation?

Because I don't think genetics can cause that much of a difference between farm kids and everybody else, even if a kid's a tenth-generation farmer.


I don't know, ten generations of inbreeding can cause quite a genetic shift.
 
2013-03-01 10:37:39 AM

coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.


Yep, came here to say this. My school started at 8:20. My kids now have to be at school by something like 7:30(Maybe earlier), meaning that they are geting on the bus earlier than I got up...  Subby can eat a dick, starting that early is ridiculous.
 
2013-03-01 10:40:56 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


Came to say this. Our schools would rank much higher if we started them around 10:30-11:30 instead of 7:30 am.
 
2013-03-01 10:42:53 AM

timujin: Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.


Teenagers and young adults are biologically tuned to take the "night watch" shifts for guarding the pack. They should be starting school around 11 and staying up until 2-3 am on a regular basis to match their biological clock.
 
2013-03-01 10:44:12 AM
I never had any problem with 7:30 start times in high school.  Also had a paper route (for the linked paper as it turns out) which had me up before 5:00 anyway.  I would usually get done early enough to grab a 20 minute nap before getting ready to leave for school.  And that was after usually watching Letterman the night before (this was in the mid-80's when it was Late Night and started at 12:30am).  Plus senior year we had AP chem for 1st period.

In short, I have no idea how I got through high school, but get off my lawn anyway.
 
2013-03-01 10:44:30 AM

Kimothy: AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.

This. Teenagers need more sleep, need to sleep later in the day, and are wired to stay up later at night. Starting school later would resolve a lot of these issues.

I'm in Las Vegas and our high schools start around 7 am; report time for teachers is 630 - one of the reasons I decided to take a job at a charter school. I'm not functional at 630 in the morning, I can't even imagine what the teens feel like at that hour.

However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.


Priorities. We has them.
 
2013-03-01 10:45:06 AM

Gulper Eel: /been getting up before 5am since I was 10


Well, bully for you...

Too bad it's not merely a matter of who's a better person, but of physiology. I've been getting up for work between 5:30 and 6:30, depending on the job and living arrangements for 20 years now, and it still isn' easy. Let me go to sleep about 2 or 3 and get up 8 or even 7 hours later though, and everything is all right. You're not "special" because you can get up before 5, it's the way your body clock works. Sorry to take away your special status on Fark...
 
2013-03-01 10:45:20 AM
Our high school starts at 7:25, but you have to get there first. I am not looking forward to 2 years from now when our son starts high school. He will have to get up, get breakfast and be out the door by 6:30 to get the school bus. At least he is a morning person, it will be worse when our daughter gets into high school.

/dark at 6:30 for most of Oct, late Nov - mid Feb and 2nd week of March until April
 
2013-03-01 10:48:09 AM
So I got my daughter to school on time this morning after much grumbling.  As I arrived at the school I noticed another problem of starting school too early... teenage drivers half awake trying to get a parking space before they are late.  Imagine bumper cars with drunk midgets.

The kicker was that at the entrance of the school they had placed a crashed up car that had been driven by a teenager who was supposedly texting while driving.  My guess is she was driving to school at the butt crack of dawn, fell asleep and had an accident.

I really hate the school officials who tell the parents that they need to start early so the sports teams have enough time to play after school.  Your team hasn't won a single game in three farking years.  GET OVER IT!
 
2013-03-01 10:57:03 AM

BronyMedic: You know what I find sad?

We tout ourselves as the greatest country in the World, yet school breakfast and lunches are sometimes the only meals a child can be guaranteed to get.

We can "liberate" Iraq, we can send BILLIONS in aid overseas, but we can't feed our own people.


School Breakfast?? Since when?!

I grew up in the rural outskirts of a small town in the midwest. Since 5th grade I had to wake up at 5:15am to catch the bus at 6:15 to be at school by 7:30am when it began.

Since it was a small community and many students (like me) lived miles away from the city proper in the middle of nowhere the Middle Schoolers and High Schoolers were picked up and rode the bus together, which made for a weird dynamic as you had 10 year olds on the same bus with the 16 and 17 year olds who didn't have their own cars yet.

Yeah, I always hated that school started so early, but I've found even in my adult life I usually tend to go to bed as late as I possibly can, sometimes to my detriment and lack of sleep, and wake up like 45-60 minutes before I have to leave. Like if I have to be at work at 11:00am I will try to be asleep by 2 or 3am (sometimes 4 or 5am) and get up at like 9:50am or 10, giving me (+/-)45 minutes to shower and dress and 15 minutes for travel. Even though I prefer to get 7 to 8 hours of sleep, I will often rationalize getting only 5 or 6 if I want to stay up later.

I would have loved for school to start at 8:30, 9, or 9:30am but even then I would have set my alarm for an hour before the bus arrived and probably hit the Snooze Bar twice...
 
2013-03-01 11:00:47 AM
I'm getting a small kick out of this.

I may be the oddity, but I'm one of those "wretched" people who can be up & light off pretty quickly. I work for a small HVAC supplier in NH. Most of my deliveries are in metro Boston. The crews the use my stuff start as early as 5 AM, so that means I have to be up at 2, and on the road by 3 AM to make sure my customers get their parts on time.

I get more done by the time most people get to work than many do all day.

/ Just got back from a run to the South Shore
// Can't sleep past 6:30
 
2013-03-01 11:13:41 AM
Jobs program.   By making it so people cant drop off their kids and get to work by 9, people will have to hire
AM sitters.

It's a three letter word, Jobs
 
2013-03-01 11:19:41 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Jobs program.   By making it so people cant drop off their kids and get to work by 9, people will have to hire
AM sitters.

It's a three letter word, Jobs


If your high schooler can't get himself to school that's not the world's problem.
 
2013-03-01 11:20:13 AM

coco ebert: GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.

I'm probably older than you (33 years old). I've noticed that school has started earlier and earlier.


This just in.. schools don't start all grades at the same time.  That would require 3x as many school busses and bus drivers.

My local schools start elementary at 7, then middle then high.  (some studies showing the younger ones 'wake up easier' etc.

The next county is the opposite, High, middle then elementary, but also has some schools on staggered start times, ending at 4pm, etc.

I think High school last is the easiest for parents.  It means your older children can help get the young ones ready.   After school, it is a lot easier to find babysitters for the elementary students at 3pm than at 7am.
 
2013-03-01 11:21:18 AM
yukichigai
Gulper Eel: I grew up in a town that was part redneck and part preppy, and not once did I hear the farm kids biatch about getting up at 4:00am for milking and the rest of the chores, before going to school. The lawyers' and doctors' kids, on the other hand, would piss and moan about having to roll in at 8:00.


Farm families come from generations and generations of people who have naturally early schedules. There is an honest-to-god genetic difference, to say nothing of the cultural ones.


I would imagine there's a difference in what you are doing.
If you're doing routine physical stuff you've done hundreds of times before, your brain can stay behind in bed and catch up later while the physical activity gets your system going (think of taking a shower after getting up).
Get someone out of bed, drop them into a chair in a stuffy room and expect them to be still and quiet (and maybe thinking) while listening to someone lecturing them and I bet they'll have a harder time not to doze off.

/ desk neighbors had to elbow me sometimes when I fell asleep during 8 am history class after getting only 4 hours of sleep (mostly due to homework for other classes)
// didn't help we were sitting in the front row; at least the teacher wasn't an ass and didn't say anything the couple of times I noticed him noticing it
 
2013-03-01 11:23:25 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


Then effing put your kids to bed an hour earlier.   Having trouble with it?  Then unplug the network router at 9pm.
 
2013-03-01 11:43:22 AM
Subby is a moran.

Offsetting the hours from DC rush hour would be a good idea

Subby is also a chaste, lonely soul who has no children.

If you had a teenager, you'd realize they are worthless before 9am.  Worthless.
 
2013-03-01 11:45:36 AM
48 years old, started school at 7:30 am in the 70's and 80's.  So not sure this is really a story, 7:30am is fine, unless they go an hour later and let the kids out an hour or so later which would be good for single parents.
 
2013-03-01 11:46:25 AM
Grrrrr...... High School started way too early! (7:30am)

Everyone was either asleep at their desk or still waking up

One year I had 1st period PE and that actually helped to wake me up but was also terrible because it was PE at 7:30 in the AM, so..........

\should I be using slashies? (/?)
 
2013-03-01 12:04:42 PM

hasty ambush: doglover: Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.

At least somebody realizes the real reason behind this is to give the Union thug teachers some extra rack time.

 If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping


Grandpa?
 
2013-03-01 12:43:21 PM
School starts as early as it does because morning people are douchebags and there are LOTS of them in the teaching profession.  They don't get that some people aren't wired the way they are and use the argument, "If we start at 6am we'll be out by 2 and have the WHOLE DAY in front of us."  They don't get that for many of us, the whole day is misery because we are exhausted from not getting enough rest.  It's like extroverts that can't comprehend that the introverts have no interest in listening to them prattle on about nothing.
 
2013-03-01 12:49:27 PM
there is a lot of scientific evidence that suggests starting later is beneficial for adolescents, they tried it in a county in Virginia and somewhere in SC but was ultimately abandoned because of how it effected after school activities
 
2013-03-01 12:57:53 PM
I'm actually OK with this. My lady friend in Anne Arundel County, MD, has to get up at a quarter-to-6 in the morning to start getting ready to take her two daughters to middle and high school. The earliest classes begin at 7:30 and that girl starts her day with gym. That's ridiculous. In my whole life, I've never had a job where I had to be there before 8:30 am.

There's snowflakes, and then there's child abuse. Being forced to do jumping jacks and play field hockey at 7:30 in the damn morning is the latter. All so the control freak "morning people" adults can get their kicks abusing what power they have to make everybody else's lives miserable. By the time my friend's daughters graduate and join the work force, a regular job will seem easy to them. It's insane.
 
2013-03-01 01:05:46 PM

Philimus: There's snowflakes, and then there's child abuse. Being forced to do jumping jacks and play field hockey at 7:30 in the damn morning is the latter.


And we have a winner. Making your kid get up in the morning = child abuse.

Surprised it took 3 pages.
 
2013-03-01 01:20:06 PM

hasty ambush:  If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping



Sunrise here was at 6:50 this morning.  Shut up and go back to bed.
 
2013-03-01 01:32:29 PM

hasty ambush: If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping


That only makes sense if your plans for the day require daylight.
 
2013-03-01 01:35:21 PM

oi_piss_me_off: there is a lot of scientific evidence that suggests starting later is beneficial for adolescents, they tried it in a county in Virginia and somewhere in SC but was ultimately abandoned because of how it effected after school activities


Like homework?
 
2013-03-01 01:57:21 PM

vudukungfu: oi_piss_me_off: there is a lot of scientific evidence that suggests starting later is beneficial for adolescents, they tried it in a county in Virginia and somewhere in SC but was ultimately abandoned because of how it effected after school activities

Like homework?


Nononono.. Schools aren't supposed to GIVE homework any more. Today's children are just too darn busy playing games, watching tv, and texting their friends all night to worry about little things like homework.
 
2013-03-01 02:06:10 PM

denni04011: timujin: Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.

Could you provide the resources for these alleged researches you speak of, or should we just take your word because you sleep in?


Would have posted them at the time if I wasn't so lazy.  There was actually a thread here back when the study came out.. Lemme see what I can find...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870453500457534918290100 6 438.html
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/teens-health/CC00019
http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/hot-topics/backgrounder-later -s chool-start-times
http://www.cehd.umn.edu/research/highlights/Sleep/
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/clocks/fall/teenagers.html

There you go.
 
2013-03-01 02:09:02 PM

timujin: denni04011: timujin: Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.

Could you provide the resources for these alleged researches you speak of, or should we just take your word because you sleep in?

Would have posted them at the time if I wasn't so lazy.  There was actually a thread here back when the study came out.. Lemme see what I can find...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870453500457534918290100 6 438.html
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/teens-health/CC00019
http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/hot-topics/backgrounder-later -s chool-start-times
http://www.cehd.umn.edu/research/highlights/Sleep/
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/clocks/fall/teenagers.html

There you go.


Oh, and some Fark threads for good measure:
http://www.fark.com/comments/4898978/Study-confirms-your-teenager-wo ul d-be-less-of-a-moody-twit-if-he-she-got-more-sleep-Still-no-cure-for-y our-texting-bill

http://www.fark.com/comments/5767021/Doctor-blames-teenage-drug-use- ca r-crashes-on-ridiculous-early-morning-starting-time-for-high-school

http://www.fark.com/comments/4280453/Schools-starting-later-to-let-s tu dents-sleep-in-better-preparing-them-for-unemployment
 
2013-03-01 02:14:45 PM
getting up early = good

staying up late = bad
 
2013-03-01 02:21:33 PM

idsfa: hasty ambush:  If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping


Sunrise here was at 6:50 this morning.  Shut up and go back to bed.


You have at least 30 minutes of usable light before sunrise; get out of bed.

Greek mythology the god of sleep, Hypnos, was the twin of death, Thanatos.  Coincidence?  I think not.
 
2013-03-01 02:26:21 PM
Our daughter's school starts at 8:10AM and that's already too farking early.  Our entire family would be much happier with a later start time.
 
2013-03-01 02:29:52 PM

hasty ambush: You have at least 30 minutes of usable light before sunrise; get out of bed.


Yep, totally set my alarm by BMNT.
 
2013-03-01 02:29:58 PM

Kimothy: GAT_00: Kimothy: Teenagers need more sleep, need to sleep later in the day, and are wired to stay up later at night.

F*ck, I'm still wired that way.  If I can fall into a schedule where I sleep whenever I want, I inevitably sleep from 2-10.

Me too. When I have time off and don't have to take classes, I live on that schedule.


Add me to this chorus.
 
2013-03-01 02:31:15 PM

StoPPeRmobile: getting up early = good

staying up late = bad


Are you highlighting the absurdity of that idea or do you really espouse it?
 
2013-03-01 02:45:32 PM

lunchinlewis: hasty ambush: You have at least 30 minutes of usable light before sunrise; get out of bed.

Yep, totally set my alarm by BMNT.


You know "they" always attack at dawn so you need an earlier stand-to
 
2013-03-01 02:49:10 PM
hasty ambush: If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping

Not sure if serious, but what are you doing in daylight that I can't do in darkness?
 
2013-03-01 02:53:58 PM

cptjeff: Kimothy: However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.

Tail wagging the dog a bit there, ain't it?

Make the kids who play sports get up in the morning to do that, let everybody else sleep in. It's an optional extracurricular, they should have to work around the school schedule, not the other way around.


You are not the first to suggest this - it gets suggested every year. Marching band(s) generally practice before school through first period, sports are after-school. And I agree, they should reverse this schedule and have all practices before school and just start later in the day. 


goatleggedfellow: cptjeff: Kimothy: 
How 'bout not playing football in the farking desert?


Because 'Merika, that's why. 

Bullseyed: Kimothy: AdolfOliverPanties: 

However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.

Priorities. We has them.


Yep. Just like everywhere else, football rules. Damn shame. Although I have to admit that some of my students only bother passing classes during football/basketball/track/whatever they play season, because they have to stay eligible. And now they have to stay eligible all year in order to play the next one, so those grades should hold steady. It's always nice to have  something to hold over their heads when they feel like bailing on their classes.
 
2013-03-01 04:37:33 PM

Southern100: vudukungfu: oi_piss_me_off: there is a lot of scientific evidence that suggests starting later is beneficial for adolescents, they tried it in a county in Virginia and somewhere in SC but was ultimately abandoned because of how it effected after school activities

Like homework?

Nononono.. Schools aren't supposed to GIVE homework any more. Today's children are just too darn busy playing games, watching tv, and texting their friends all night to worry about little things like homework.


I wish my kid's school subscribed to that theory.  They give those little bastards hours of homework every night.  It's f*cking ridiculous.
 
2013-03-01 05:17:23 PM

lewismarktwo: StoPPeRmobile: getting up early = good

staying up late = bad

Are you highlighting the absurdity of that idea or do you really espouse it?




Yeah, I never understood why some people want praise because they wake up at a certain time. It's farking we todd it.

/stays up really late
 
2013-03-01 05:53:09 PM
I got better grades in school when I left 1st period empty and took 2 through 7 rather than 1 through 6.

/night person
 
2013-03-01 07:49:50 PM
For me, middle school started at 9 and high school started at 7:14. I've always been an early riser, so I would rather get out earlier in the afternoon so the whole day isn't wasted. But, I sure did see a lot of zombies in the first class or two of the day in high school.
 
2013-03-02 01:34:45 AM
 
2013-03-02 03:38:16 AM

vpb: GAT_00: coco ebert: I dunno, 7:17am is pretty early. When I was young, school started around 8:30am.

I always started at 7:30.

8:00 am is the earliest I ever started.


08:45 when I went to school on the Ark. In Boston. Left the house ay 0730 to walk to bus station, to get to school by 0830. Sat in cafeteria until 0845 until Homeroom was open. School started at 0900 was out by 230 pm
 
2013-03-02 04:20:38 AM

illbeinmybunk: My son goes to a special needs school and the old one went to 8th grade so now he's is a different school. They do something that's brilliant IMHO. Realizing that some kids are morning kids and some kids aren't every day the schedule rotates. Monday is class 1 2 3 4 5 6. Tuesday is is 2 3 4 5 6 1. Wednesday is 3 4 5 6 1 2. Ed etc. this way if you aren't a morning person your entire school year of geometry at 8 doesn't fark you for that class.

I'm guessing stubby doesn't have kids. Or read. Because studies show that starting school before a certain hour has a negative effect on learning. It's the same reason college kids who take a Saturday 8am class generally don't do as we'll as the same class held later in the day (studies have shown this) and managers who call for meetings before 8am are despised. If this weren't the case, we could just send kids to class at midnight and be done with it.


holy crap
that is brilliant!!
at least a couple of days your hardest class would be at your most efficient time for you, regardless of the class or your personal clock.
I swear to god, school was living hell for me. I am NOT a morning person. Never have been, NEVER will be. Everything was harder.
At least until some of college when I could schedule most of my classes to NOT BE EARLY morning.

so HERE is one of those sideways questions, why isnt school from say, 10 to 5? this would solve most of the early morning kid problem and you wouldn't have to p-ay scheduling games.

IF the only answer is "because the parents schedules are more important", then I am left with the same question, WHY do we care about the parents and NOT the children again??
 
2013-03-02 10:08:12 AM
Valid studies show that delaying school start times results in increased student achievement.
 
2013-03-03 07:20:16 PM

wambu: Valid studies show that delaying school start times results in increased student achievement.


Didn't work for shiat at the school where I've been teaching for 11 years...just resulted in more kids showing up late to school...especially the ones whose parents had already left for work.  They'd sit around...get high...watch some Spongebob...hit up Jack-In-The-Box...THEN show up to school.
 
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