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(Washington Post)   Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 171
    More: Stupid, Washington DC, Children's National Medical Center, Arlington County, lack of sleep, sports practices, middle schools, school systems  
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3545 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2013 at 4:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-01 05:12:17 AM
Sounds like subby could use a little more nappy time.
 
2013-03-01 05:12:23 AM

the_colors: My dad has always worked overnight, and I think I inherited my default sleep schedule from him. I will gladly sleep all day and stay up all night working. Hell, I'm doing it now.


Same, my sleep schedule is farked right now. I've been trying to set it straight, but I've been having trouble making it past 3 or 4 in the afternoon.
 
2013-03-01 05:19:50 AM

Gulper Eel: I grew up in a town that was part redneck and part preppy, and not once did I hear the farm kids biatch about getting up at 4:00am for milking and the rest of the chores, before going to school. The lawyers' and doctors' kids, on the other hand, would piss and moan about having to roll in at 8:00.

Give them the option of coming in an hour late but staying 90 minutes later, or coming in an hour early but leaving 90 minutes early...and let's see who's willing to get up early and bust a hump.

/been getting up before 5am since I was 10
//lawn. off


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-03-01 05:21:03 AM
i915.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-01 05:21:39 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.

My district tried to do this for the 7th and 8th graders because everything we did was research-based, but the logistics were impossible. The transportation department rules the world in public schools.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and that, too.
 
2013-03-01 05:28:22 AM
Perhaps using the term 'nappy' in a story about Washington, DC schools may not have been the best choice.
Just sayin'.
 
2013-03-01 05:30:43 AM

cptjeff: Kimothy: However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.

Tail wagging the dog a bit there, ain't it?

Make the kids who play sports get up in the morning to do that, let everybody else sleep in. It's an optional extracurricular, they should have to work around the school schedule, not the other way around.


How 'bout not playing football in the farking desert?
 
2013-03-01 05:43:30 AM

goatleggedfellow: cptjeff: Kimothy: However, one of the reasons Las Vegas starts so early is because of sports. It's really difficult for the football team to practice at 3 pm, when we hit our highest temperatures of the day. Starting early allows them to practice at 1 pm, and to be done by the time the heat gets real intense. Same goes for soccer, track, and the other outdoor sports.

Tail wagging the dog a bit there, ain't it?

Make the kids who play sports get up in the morning to do that, let everybody else sleep in. It's an optional extracurricular, they should have to work around the school schedule, not the other way around.

How 'bout not playing football in the farking desert?


Because it's a goddamn sacred cow, that's why.
 
2013-03-01 05:48:49 AM

doglover: Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.


At least somebody realizes the real reason behind this is to give the Union thug teachers some extra rack time.

 If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping
 
2013-03-01 05:59:46 AM

whistleridge: We started at 8:30, with a 'flex' option available for 7:30 classes. I did that senior year. Boy, did I regret it.  I can't even imagine trying to take, say, AP Cal at 7:15 am. Ugh.

What idiot had the terrible idea to start school so early anyway? If I were a parent, I wouldn't want to get up that damn early either. Life begins at 7am, no sooner. Unless you want me to be homicidal for the day.


The way the logic was explained to me, school starts earlier than people go to work so that parents can bring their kids to school before they go to work, or have them on the bus and gone before they have to go to work... or something like that.  It made a little amount of sense, and it worked out that way anyway: High School started at 8:30am, and most people start work at 9am.

What I've noticed now is that the average work day for the American worker is being shifted back more and more.  My last job started off with me coming to work at 7am, and when we switched to a "four-9's and a four" schedule work started at 6am.  People I talked to would say things like "you should have a normal 8am start time like me."  I can't help but think the two things are directly related.  For whatever reason, companies are in the mindset that workers need to be starting earlier all of the sudden, and so schools are shifting their schedules to match.

Anyway, more on point, 8:30am was stretching it when I was in High School.  The few times we had to do 7am starts my brain was melting, even if I'd gotten enough sleep.  I was not the exception to the rule either.  The only High School students I ever knew who were "morning people" either were straight-A 4.0 overachievers or drank a f%$#ton of caffeine.  The rest of us normal people were meat popsicles until about 9-ish.
 
2013-03-01 05:59:56 AM

hasty ambush: If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.


Are we filming or something?
 
2013-03-01 06:04:44 AM

Gulper Eel: I grew up in a town that was part redneck and part preppy, and not once did I hear the farm kids biatch about getting up at 4:00am for milking and the rest of the chores, before going to school. The lawyers' and doctors' kids, on the other hand, would piss and moan about having to roll in at 8:00.

Give them the option of coming in an hour late but staying 90 minutes later, or coming in an hour early but leaving 90 minutes early...and let's see who's willing to get up early and bust a hump.

/been getting up before 5am since I was 10
//lawn. off


Farm families come from generations and generations of people who have naturally early schedules.  There is an honest-to-god genetic difference, to say nothing of the cultural ones.

Your post up there has all the impact of "why can't your wiener dog keep up with you when you run?  My greyhound can outrun me, so yours should be able to manage."
 
2013-03-01 06:08:15 AM
Whatever gets the busses out of my way when I'm driving to work.
 
2013-03-01 06:08:31 AM
I like to sleep late in the morning
I don't like to wear no shoes
 
2013-03-01 06:08:59 AM

hasty ambush: doglover: Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.

At least somebody realizes the real reason behind this is to give the Union thug teachers some extra rack time.

 If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping


Yeah!  It's not like there are scientific studies that prove that teenagers perform better at school if they sleep later and their day starts later!  If they're doing better at school then it logically follows that they'll have better opportunities in life.  Let me put it in terms you may find easier to understand: teenagers who get the extra sleep automatically grow bigger bootstraps.  Why are you against that?

Maybe your experiences with 0600 wake ups are the reason why you can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're"?
 
2013-03-01 06:10:04 AM
Crap, I always hate getting up at 5:00 just to make the bus.
 
2013-03-01 06:17:04 AM
Pshaw. In the Army we got done by 9 AM than most people do all day.
 
2013-03-01 06:19:51 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


Of course because they are still growing.  And learning a crapload of new stuff is a lot easier with a good night's sleep.

I don't know why this issue is even under debate, unless there are tough guys here that want to out-bookstrap everyone else.

/bonus - annoying teenagers are stuck in school later in day, which means annoying teenagers are not out in public at 3 in the frickin' afternoon
 
2013-03-01 06:22:45 AM

hasty ambush: doglover: Schools throughout the Washington DC area announce plans to start later in the day so that their precious, tired widdle snowflakes can have more morning nappy time teachers don't have hangovers the size of mountain gorillas.

At least somebody realizes the real reason behind this is to give the Union thug teachers some extra rack time.

 If your still in bed at 0600 your "burning daylight" and need to get up.   Life is too short to spend it sleeping


Trololol :)

It's a good thing they invented useful artificial lighting a few hundred years ago... Otherwise I wouldn't be able to roll in to my office somewhere between 11 and noon and work until between 9pm and midnight.

I get my shiat done. What do you care when I get it done on any given day?
 
2013-03-01 06:30:59 AM
I don't think anything should ever be improved for anybody because I'm a miserable turd.

/subby
 
2013-03-01 06:32:14 AM
Wow, Subby is a dick.
 
2013-03-01 06:36:53 AM
Is this another thread where conservatives say the only way to do things is the lousy way they had to do it, and that punishment is the only way to teach?
 
2013-03-01 06:38:45 AM

The Envoy: Yeah!  It's not like there are scientific studies that prove that teenagers perform better at school if they sleep later and their day starts later!  If they're doing better at school then it logically follows that they'll have better opportunities in life.  Let me put it in terms you may find easier to understand: teenagers who get the extra sleep automatically grow bigger bootstraps.  Why are you against that?


Do those scientific studies show that it's the time of the DAY that schoolchildren get up, or HOW MUCH sleep they get?

Because far be it from me to suggest that if they're still tired at 7:00 in the morning, maybe they need to be in bed, ya know, like BEFORE midnight?

I dunno, the way things are today, making your kid go to bed before midnight would probably make some people scream "child abuse".
 
2013-03-01 06:43:55 AM
Try to find a job that lets you sleep in so you can go to porn sites all night.
 
2013-03-01 06:44:03 AM
Efforts to ease sleep deprivation among teenagers...

Go to bed earlier, like normal people.

/oops, it's 4:43am. Time to hit the sack.
 
2013-03-01 06:44:39 AM

Southern100: The Envoy: Yeah!  It's not like there are scientific studies that prove that teenagers perform better at school if they sleep later and their day starts later!  If they're doing better at school then it logically follows that they'll have better opportunities in life.  Let me put it in terms you may find easier to understand: teenagers who get the extra sleep automatically grow bigger bootstraps.  Why are you against that?

Do those scientific studies show that it's the time of the DAY that schoolchildren get up, or HOW MUCH sleep they get?

Because far be it from me to suggest that if they're still tired at 7:00 in the morning, maybe they need to be in bed, ya know, like BEFORE midnight?

I dunno, the way things are today, making your kid go to bed before midnight would probably make some people scream "child abuse".


You could...you know, look up the studies. But nah, you're right, the stupid eggheads, they never even thought to THINK about how much sleep they get.
 
2013-03-01 06:47:53 AM

timujin: Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.


Could you provide the resources for these alleged researches you speak of, or should we just take your word because you sleep in?
 
2013-03-01 06:49:44 AM

chatikh: It is obvious what started this. Washington DC has the highest percentage of gays and lesbians. Gays and lesbians are known for having children when they are wanted and when they are financially and emotionally ready for children. They also had harder times in school. This means that Washington DC has a higher percentage of parents who really care for their children.

It's truly sick. Just because they love and appreciate their children more than a lot of straight parents doesn't mean that they can change school tradition for the rest of us.


I'm gay, fecked if I want any yard apes around.
 
2013-03-01 06:51:50 AM
That both parents often work seem to be a point missed by anyone expressing surprise that school starts early.

If school starts at 7ish, most parents can get the kids to school before work.  Push school start time past 8 and people start needing before school help to manage that feat.

Realities sometime need to be factored in sometimes.
 
2013-03-01 06:52:32 AM

ghare: You could...you know, look up the studies.


Link your source, or we'll think you just pulled one out of your butt.

Because every study I've ever seen shows it's the amount of sleep you get, not what time of the day you finally decide to drag your ass out of bed, that determines how well you do in school.
 
2013-03-01 06:53:14 AM

BronyMedic: You know what I find sad?

We tout ourselves as the greatest country in the World, yet school breakfast and lunches are sometimes the only meals a child can be guaranteed to get.

We can "liberate" Iraq, we can send BILLIONS in aid overseas, but we can't feed our own people.


And some crazy people want to take even that away.
 
2013-03-01 06:59:00 AM
Currently, school starts here at 7:50 for elementary, 8:20 for middle school, and 8:50 for high school.  I think that's reasonable, and probably backed up by science.  Lord knows the school district has to squeeze in science somewhere when we're teaching our kids about the 6000 year old fossils.

When I was a kid, in another part of the state, our classes started about an hour earlier, and I didn't really mind--even went to "zero" period before school my senior year.  Of course, I'm one of those fossils.
 
2013-03-01 06:59:36 AM
I just found out my temporary transfer to a division that starts at 7am instead of 10am is permanant, so I ain't even gonna hate.
 
2013-03-01 07:03:18 AM
 
2013-03-01 07:03:34 AM
Back in high school I started at 6:10am...yeeah I would have liked to sleep in more.  Granted, I was finished by 12:30...
 
2013-03-01 07:10:07 AM
Basically, teens don't get enough sleep because they experience a phase delay.  They can't get to sleep when everyone else does, so they stay up late.  Then they must get up early for school, and as a result, they build up a sleep deficit that ends up hitting them on the weekend.  No scientific papers here, but definitely a few scientists talking about it:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6896471

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/interviews/c ar skadon.html
 
2013-03-01 07:14:10 AM
My son goes to a special needs school and the old one went to 8th grade so now he's is a different school. They do something that's brilliant IMHO. Realizing that some kids are morning kids and some kids aren't every day the schedule rotates. Monday is class 1 2 3 4 5 6. Tuesday is is 2 3 4 5 6 1. Wednesday is 3 4 5 6 1 2. Ed etc. this way if you aren't a morning person your entire school year of geometry at 8 doesn't fark you for that class.

I'm guessing stubby doesn't have kids. Or read. Because studies show that starting school before a certain hour has a negative effect on learning. It's the same reason college kids who take a Saturday 8am class generally don't do as we'll as the same class held later in the day (studies have shown this) and managers who call for meetings before 8am are despised. If this weren't the case, we could just send kids to class at midnight and be done with it.
 
2013-03-01 07:19:36 AM
Southern100:
Because every study I've ever seen shows it's the amount of sleep you get, not what time of the day you finally decide to drag your ass out of bed, that determines how well you do in school.

There's a relationship between amount and timing.  Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up.  You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet."  Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.
 
2013-03-01 07:34:51 AM

yukichigai: Farm families come from generations and generations of people who have naturally early schedules. There is an honest-to-god genetic difference, to say nothing of the cultural ones.


Citation?

Because I don't think genetics can cause that much of a difference between farm kids and everybody else, even if a kid's a tenth-generation farmer.
 
2013-03-01 07:35:14 AM

Southern100: Here, let me google that for you.


Here, let me google something relevant for you:
http://www.cehd.umn.edu/research/highlights/Sleep/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8579951.stm
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/201102/do-l at er-school-start-times-really-help-high-school-students

Or put another way:

CarloSkippy: There's a relationship between amount and timing. Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up. You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet." Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.

 
2013-03-01 07:46:18 AM

CarloSkippy: There's a relationship between amount and timing. Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up. You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet." Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.


Then seeing as they don't want to go to bed just yet, they clearly have time for more term papers.
 
2013-03-01 08:04:44 AM

chatikh: It is obvious what started this. Washington DC has the highest percentage of gays and lesbians. Gays and lesbians are known for having children when they are wanted and when they are financially and emotionally ready for children. They also had harder times in school. This means that Washington DC has a higher percentage of parents who really care for their children.

It's truly sick. Just because they love and appreciate their children more than a lot of straight parents doesn't mean that they can change school tradition for the rest of us.


I can see that your Jump To Conclusions game came in.
 
2013-03-01 08:11:33 AM
It's the nation's capitol
not much makes sense here
 
2013-03-01 08:11:53 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: This is not stupid.  Adolescence is a time when humans require more rest than most other times in their lives.  An extra hour of sleep has resulted in much improved test scores and better grades.


revrendjim: There is research and established science to support this, subby. What do you have?

timujin: Research shows that starting school at early results in a lowered results.  One study claimed that kids' brains, especially as they get into their teen years, don't function before something like 9 or 10am.

These.

I'm guessing the stupid tag is for subby.
 
2013-03-01 08:13:39 AM

The Envoy: Southern100: Here, let me google that for you.

Here, let me google something relevant for you:
http://www.cehd.umn.edu/research/highlights/Sleep/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8579951.stm
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleepless-in-america/201102/do-l at er-school-start-times-really-help-high-school-students

Or put another way:

CarloSkippy: There's a relationship between amount and timing. Mary Carskadon's research in particular points the fact that teens experience a shift in circadian rhythms that keeps them from going to sleep at a "normal time," and yet they still have to get up. You could make the kid sit in bed and stare in the ceiling at 9:00pm so they can get up at 5:00, but they really don't get the 8 hours because they're sitting there in bed until midnight because their bodies say, "not time for bed yet." Yes, it's amount of sleep, but it's not that simple.


Thank you Envoy, those were quite informative.. Well, the first 2, anyway - that last one was garbage. :)

I will agree that studies will show that children that get to start the day later will do better, but that's because they're *getting more sleep*.. Even the first article you linked shows that kids today don't even go to sleep until 11pm.. Sheeeeeet, I was already sawing logs for 3 hours by that time (on a school night). :)

I'll also agree that (many) children don't want to go to sleep early - there's simply too much for them to do these days (that many of us old farts couldn't do 30-40 years ago)... Play Xbox, play on the computer, txt their friends on their mobile phones until 2 in the morning, watch 500 channels of TV, etc.. Hell, only time I ever got to watch Johnny Carson was on Friday night. :p

Personally, I think it has more to do with parents LETTING their children stay up until 11pm.   And yes, I'm one of them - we never really enforced "strict bedtimes" with our children either, and today they're suffering for it.  NOW, in their 20's they tell us they have to go to bed early because they have to be up at 6, get ready, and commute to be at work by 7:30.  We laugh about it, but it's not really funny.
 
2013-03-01 08:15:42 AM

illbeinmybunk: My son goes to a special needs school and the old one went to 8th grade so now he's is a different school. They do something that's brilliant IMHO. Realizing that some kids are morning kids and some kids aren't every day the schedule rotates. Monday is class 1 2 3 4 5 6. Tuesday is is 2 3 4 5 6 1. Wednesday is 3 4 5 6 1 2. Ed etc. this way if you aren't a morning person your entire school year of geometry at 8 doesn't fark you for that class.


This is what my high school schedule was like (except it was a 7 class rotation, 5/day), and both students and teachers loved it. Sadly they abandoned it after I graduated because the county wanted all the schools to be on the same schedule (coincidentally, the same Howard County as in the article).

As for later starts...maybe I was an exceptionally strange teen, but I was never a late sleeper. I was always able to get my ass out of bed and to the bus on time, and even when I started driving I'd leave the house early so I wouldn't get stuck behind buses on my way to school. Sure I was tired, but then again, I'm an adult now and am tired at 8 in the morning at work too.
 
2013-03-01 08:19:01 AM
Not having children standing in the dark waiting for the bus and not having buses in the thick of commuter traffic are good enough reasons to alter school start time.
 
2013-03-01 08:24:36 AM

zepillin: I like to sleep late in the morning
I don't like to wear no shoes


LONG HAIRED FREAK!
 
2013-03-01 08:28:44 AM
I'm a pretty strict believer in the early bird getting the GD worm, but I will admit, sleeping in until 7:30 on weekends feel damn good. As for when I have kids, I hope their start time coincides with my work schedule.
 
2013-03-01 08:34:07 AM

Alunan: Back in my day we had to sleep uphill in the snow, BOTH WAYS.


Done in one
 
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