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(Yahoo)   Who knew that requiring all new cars be built to the specs of a Mercedes E-class would make them more expensive?   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 136
    More: Obvious, BLT  
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5135 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Feb 2013 at 3:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-28 01:35:50 PM
mmmm Mercedes E class...

The only car I ever fit in. Oh and the way they drive! Nothing on the road is built to those specs.
 
2013-02-28 02:04:52 PM
So a website operated by a company whose entire purpose is to use fluff-laden investment advice as a vehicle to push consumers toward mortgage and credit lenders is now saying that Americans should be prepared to spend $30,000 for an entry-level car? Well, that's shocking. I'm shocked.
 
2013-02-28 02:45:32 PM
farm3.static.flickr.com

All new cars are now required to be fit for Taxi duty? Setting the bar, are we?
 
2013-02-28 02:49:26 PM
Single car household now and don't plan on going to two+ vehicles ever again

/ suck on it automakers, oil companies
 
2013-02-28 03:15:54 PM
I was pretty shocked to see the average household income in SF is about $72k. Isn't that near poverty level in that city?
 
2013-02-28 03:17:58 PM
Yes, the answer to high car prices is to take taxis everywhere. Just like the answer to high food prices is to go to restaurants.
 
2013-02-28 03:19:26 PM

DrRatchet: [farm3.static.flickr.com image 678x356]

All new cars are now required to be fit for Taxi duty? Setting the bar, are we?


Well if the car can survive as a taxi it's more reliable than other cars I've driven.
 
2013-02-28 03:24:55 PM
The typical new vehicle is now more expensive than ever, averaging $30,500 in 2012

That's almost as much as we spent on our last two cars combined (a Civic and a Fit).
 
2013-02-28 03:30:09 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: mmmm Mercedes E class...

The only car I ever fit in. Oh and the way they drive! Nothing on the road is built to those specs.


I'm big and tall and I agree. However the 300/Charger line is quite spacious. I have to pull the seat forward slightly. The Taurus is really tight and the fusion is only slightly better (for some reason the smaller car has more room). The Impala is OK but people will think you rented it. The Jetta tight but probably the best fitting compact car.

/rents a lot of cars
 
2013-02-28 03:30:41 PM
Yes, it's definitely reduced buying power of the dollar, wage stagflation, increasing debts and cost of living, and unprecedented uncertainty of the economic future, both macro and personal. It's the car specs that put new cars out of reach for folks.
 
2013-02-28 03:32:34 PM
Weird, when car prices go up but wages don't, people can't easily afford cars any longer.
 
2013-02-28 03:34:02 PM
They also have to meet ever tougher federal safety, emissions and mileage standards that have added thousands to the typical price tag.

At least by buying one you are preventing a global warming catastrophe.

Why are you laughing? Stop laughing!
 
2013-02-28 03:35:42 PM
I've had a subscription to Car and Driver since I was a little kid. It used to be that about 25% of the articles were on cars I would never dream of owning. now I'm in my mid-30's, couple of kids, mortgage and 2 paid-off cars that are both 10 years old and it seems like 90% of that magazine is nothing I will own in my lifetime.

I really think the auto-industry is in for a huge crash as the younger generations are under-paid and under-promoted and none of the new grads are racing out to buy their first car like they used to when they got that first job. Between the poor economic standing of Gen Y and younger and their general lack of passion for cars, the industry is BONED.
 
2013-02-28 03:37:28 PM

rtaylor92: I really think the auto-industry is in for a huge crash as the younger generations are under-paid and under-promoted and none of the new grads are racing out to buy their first car like they used to when they got that first job. Between the poor economic standing of Gen Y and younger and their general lack of passion for cars, the industry is BONED.


Yeah, once the Boomers age out, the new car market is screwed.
 
2013-02-28 03:40:49 PM

Pocket Ninja: So a website operated by a company whose entire purpose is to use fluff-laden investment advice as a vehicle to push consumers toward mortgage and credit lenders is now saying that Americans should be prepared to spend $30,000 for an entry-level car? Well, that's shocking. I'm shocked.


Yes, it is entirely Yahoo Finance's fault.  Good to get that straight
 
2013-02-28 03:40:52 PM

Elzar: suck on it automakers, oil companies


What do the oil companies care if you only own one car, since you can only drive one at a time?

Your insurance company might be kinda bummed I suppose.
 
2013-02-28 03:44:23 PM

Tr0mBoNe: I'm big and tall and I agree. However the 300/Charger line is quite spacious. I have to pull the seat forward slightly. The Taurus is really tight and the fusion is only slightly better (for some reason the smaller car has more room). The Impala is OK but people will think you rented it. The Jetta tight but probably the best fitting compact car.

/rents a lot of cars


The Audi Q5 is where it is at. But it's not a car, it's a "cross over".

I call it the Mom-wagon, but with 3.2 liter engine this Mom-wagon will blow your doors off.
 
2013-02-28 03:46:26 PM
Meh.

There are a lot of great sub-$20,000 cars.

Americans are just terrible with living on a budget, and when it comes to cars especially, are likely to overspend because having a slick looking car is so tied to identity, symbol of success, etc. In Europe people are far more frugal with car purchases (obviously the higher gas prices are a factor, but people there don't see a car as a self expression of who they are).

Last comment: for my job I do a lot of traveling that requires renting cars. For midweek rentals I can get premium cars for not much more than standard, so I do it. It's shocking how crappy audio systems can be in $40k and $50k cars -- shrill sound with no mid-range -- and many have a terrible menu system for accessing music on iPods. My $17k Honda Fit has better sound than a lot of these cars, and it's far easier to navigate my iPod through its interface.
 
2013-02-28 03:47:06 PM
What the fark are these people smoking about 30k for the average price?  30k is if you want a nicely equipped sedan with some performance features, not entry level.
 
2013-02-28 03:50:17 PM

rtaylor92: I've had a subscription to Car and Driver since I was a little kid. It used to be that about 25% of the articles were on cars I would never dream of owning. now I'm in my mid-30's, couple of kids, mortgage and 2 paid-off cars that are both 10 years old and it seems like 90% of that magazine is nothing I will own in my lifetime.

I really think the auto-industry is in for a huge crash as the younger generations are under-paid and under-promoted and none of the new grads are racing out to buy their first car like they used to when they got that first job. Between the poor economic standing of Gen Y and younger and their general lack of passion for cars, the industry is BONED.


Dodge was recently advertising their pickup trucks with 84 month financing. That's 7 frigging years.  What sort of business model is it that where it takes so long to pay off a vehicle? Short term it pays off but long term it will kill them as it will take forever to sell your customer another vehicle because they're chained to it for so long.
 
2013-02-28 03:50:44 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: but with 3.2 liter engine this Mom-wagon will blow your doors off.


Until you blow a head gasket.  Audi may make beautiful cars, but I'm not dropping $40K+ so that my mechanic is the one admiring it more than I am.
 
2013-02-28 03:53:33 PM
30 grand can't touch no King Ranch Ford, and you need them out thar in the frontier.
 
2013-02-28 03:55:16 PM
Used vehicles offer a far superior value.

We just bought a 2 year old Town and Country for $16k, low milage, one owner, clean carfax.

The gas mileage is not the greatest, but we have a big family and needed the bus.
 
2013-02-28 04:05:10 PM
The biggest problem is the equipment people want in their car. I can't tell you the number of peope who've come into the dealership where I work looking for a new car with navigation, bluetooth, etc and then want a payment of $250 per month. They have no idea how much this stuff adds to the price of car. The killer is they have nav on their cellphone already !
 
2013-02-28 04:07:40 PM

Tr0mBoNe: The Stealth Hippopotamus: mmmm Mercedes E class...

The only car I ever fit in. Oh and the way they drive! Nothing on the road is built to those specs.

I'm big and tall and I agree. However the 300/Charger line is quite spacious. I have to pull the seat forward slightly. The Taurus is really tight and the fusion is only slightly better (for some reason the smaller car has more room). The Impala is OK but people will think you rented it. The Jetta tight but probably the best fitting compact car.

/rents a lot of cars


Ford should have stuck with the interior dimensions of the short-lived 2008-09 Taurus. Boring as hell to look at but that's a spacious car. I own an '09, it's very comfy but I barely fit in the '10 and newer models. I figure I spend more time looking at the inside than the outside so I don't really care about the styling. I don't know what I'm going to do when I have to replace it - I really don't want to buy a Mercedes E class......
 
2013-02-28 04:21:48 PM
Better way to look at it would be sort cars into price points, see how many are available at each price point, and then check consumer ratings.

Maybe, just maybe, entry level and mid-level cars are still affordable, but the number of and price of top of the line cars have increased, throwing off the average.  Maybe.  I mean, probably; since this is a Y! finance article, I'm going to assume it's complete and utter shiat.
 
2013-02-28 04:29:10 PM

shanteyman: The biggest problem is the equipment people want in their car. I can't tell you the number of peope who've come into the dealership where I work looking for a new car with navigation, bluetooth, etc and then want a payment of $250 per month. They have no idea how much this stuff adds to the price of car. The killer is they have nav on their cellphone already !


The payment on my loaded, 2012 Nissan LEAF is less than that - and it includes Nav, Bluetooth, etc.
 
2013-02-28 04:32:03 PM

ha-ha-guy: What the fark are these people smoking about 30k for the average price?  30k is if you want a nicely equipped sedan with some performance features, not entry level.


Because entry level is not average.  (Neither is luxury, but I bet you had that part worked out all ready.)
 
2013-02-28 04:33:25 PM

MrSteve007: shanteyman: The biggest problem is the equipment people want in their car. I can't tell you the number of peope who've come into the dealership where I work looking for a new car with navigation, bluetooth, etc and then want a payment of $250 per month. They have no idea how much this stuff adds to the price of car. The killer is they have nav on their cellphone already !

The payment on my loaded, 2012 Nissan LEAF is less than that - and it includes Nav, Bluetooth, etc.


Sure, but how far can you go? :P

Seriously looking at an EV or an EV-Hybrid in the next few months.  How do you like your Leaf?  You seem to be in a much more EV friendly part of the country than me, so it really making me want to go with something that has a gas engine.  The $200/m lease on the Leaf looks pretty sweet though.
 
2013-02-28 04:33:58 PM

MrSteve007: shanteyman: The biggest problem is the equipment people want in their car. I can't tell you the number of peope who've come into the dealership where I work looking for a new car with navigation, bluetooth, etc and then want a payment of $250 per month. They have no idea how much this stuff adds to the price of car. The killer is they have nav on their cellphone already !

The payment on my loaded, 2012 Nissan LEAF is less than that - and it includes Nav, Bluetooth, etc.


How is that possible? Isn't the invoice for that car over $33K?
 
2013-02-28 04:37:25 PM
Not the top of the line by any stretch, but I'll just keep my Versa...  It goes where I want it to,   Runs well, and sips gas.  I'm good. :)
 
2013-02-28 04:37:35 PM
I have one of these for running errands...

3.bp.blogspot.com

but the French one is my daily-driver...

www.thesupercars.org

Y'all sound poor.
 
2013-02-28 04:40:56 PM

shanteyman: The biggest problem is the equipment people want in their car. I can't tell you the number of peope who've come into the dealership where I work looking for a new car with navigation, bluetooth, etc and then want a payment of $250 per month. They have no idea how much this stuff adds to the price of car. The killer is they have nav on their cellphone already !


But on the flip side try to find a base model. Most dealerships rarely get them in or act like dicks when you ask about them.

Seriously: got laughed out of one Honda dealership because I wanted an Accord LX. Kept acting like I was wrong in the head because I didn't want a sunroof, leather, nav system and a V6.
 
2013-02-28 04:41:33 PM

Dinjiin: The Stealth Hippopotamus: but with 3.2 liter engine this Mom-wagon will blow your doors off.

Until you blow a head gasket.  Audi may make beautiful cars, but I'm not dropping $40K+ so that my mechanic is the one admiring it more than I am.


in other news, new car warranties and replacement loaner cars don't exist.

most premium brands make the experience as painless as possible (towed from your house, loaner dropped off).
 
2013-02-28 04:52:31 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: mmmm Mercedes E class...

The only car I ever fit in. Oh and the way they drive! Nothing on the road is built to those specs.


You sound fat

/tall and have driven a large range of vehicles
//Fords are usually a no, and hell no Chrysler 200
 
2013-02-28 04:55:39 PM

Moopy Mac: How is that possible? Isn't the invoice for that car over $33K?


I picked up mine in January, as the dealers were clearing out stock for the upgraded 2013 model. The sticker on mine was about $38k, but it came with $7,500 Fed incentive and an additional $5,000 manufacturer incentive (plus EV's are sales tax free in WA State). So it was about $25,500. With a 2-year lease, I put $700 down, and pay $199 a month. The residual value/option to buy at the end of the lease is $21k.

The base 2013 model S starts at $21,300 (after fed incentives). They offer a 3-year $199 lease, but it takes a much steeper $1,999 down. I'd wait a few months, until they get more 2013 inventory on-hand, and try to get that lease with less money down.

wingnut396: Seriously looking at an EV or an EV-Hybrid in the next few months. How do you like your Leaf? You seem to be in a much more EV friendly part of the country than me, so it really making me want to go with something that has a gas engine. The $200/m lease on the Leaf looks pretty sweet though.


So far, I've really enjoyed it. There are some quirks however. The largest is the cabin air heater. Unlike in a regular car, it takes a while to warm up - even in mid-drive. Example: I run the heat for 5 minutes when I start the car, and it finally gets warm. I then turn it off for 10 minutes or so. I then have to run the heat again for another 5 minutes before it starts to get warm again. It takes a lot of energy to run the heater in the 2012 model (about 5,000 watts). The mid and upper level 2013 models have heat-pump heaters, which should be about 4x's more efficient. That would be nice.

As for EV friendly, Western WA now has about 2-dozen level-III "fast-charge" (20 minute) points along the interstates, Oregon has nearly 30 now. The greater Seattle area has about 2,000 public level-II charging stations around.

Although so far, I've been able to get away with the level-I 110v wall plug "trickle" charger by charging at home at night, and at work, during the day, by plugging into a 110v outlet in a lightpole. I commute about 60 miles a day.

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-02-28 04:58:14 PM
MrSteve007:

Was the leaf the only EV or Hybrid you looked at?
 
2013-02-28 05:10:32 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: mmmm Mercedes E class...

The only car I ever fit in. Oh and the way they drive! Nothing on the road is built to those specs.


Having taken an SLS AMG around a racetrack, you can keep your old-person-mobile.  Mercedes makes shiny crap for people suffering from brittle bone disease.  No feedback, numb chassis, and transmissions so slow to respond that shifts are measured by calendar year.

Honda makes better driving cars than Mercedes.  Hell, GM does as well.  Cadillac > Mercedes.
 
2013-02-28 05:13:21 PM

loonatic112358: MrSteve007:

Was the leaf the only EV or Hybrid you looked at?


I've test driven the Volt. I was actually quite impressed with it. It's a little bit expensive though, and only seats 4. The range extending idea is nice though. A few years back, I bought a new 2010 Prius, which I also loved, and typically got 54 mpg per tank (the ex-wife got it in the divorce, and put it into the back of a semi-truck a few weeks later).

I normally drive a 2005 Toyota Tacoma (18mpg). It's been a great, reliable truck, but for commuting 60 miles a day, it ends up cheaper for me to lease a Leaf for $199 a month than it is to put gas in my truck. As gas prices rise this summer, it'll be even more cost prohibitive for me to drive my truck.
 
2013-02-28 05:14:47 PM
Goddamned Obama, forcing people to buy expensive cars they don't want.
 
2013-02-28 05:14:52 PM

MrSteve007: Moopy Mac: How is that possible? Isn't the invoice for that car over $33K?

I picked up mine in January, as the dealers were clearing out stock for the upgraded 2013 model. The sticker on mine was about $38k, but it came with $7,500 Fed incentive and an additional $5,000 manufacturer incentive (plus EV's are sales tax free in WA State). So it was about $25,500. With a 2-year lease, I put $700 down, and pay $199 a month. The residual value/option to buy at the end of the lease is $21k.

The base 2013 model S starts at $21,300 (after fed incentives). They offer a 3-year $199 lease, but it takes a much steeper $1,999 down. I'd wait a few months, until they get more 2013 inventory on-hand, and try to get that lease with less money down.

wingnut396: Seriously looking at an EV or an EV-Hybrid in the next few months. How do you like your Leaf? You seem to be in a much more EV friendly part of the country than me, so it really making me want to go with something that has a gas engine. The $200/m lease on the Leaf looks pretty sweet though.

So far, I've really enjoyed it. There are some quirks however. The largest is the cabin air heater. Unlike in a regular car, it takes a while to warm up - even in mid-drive. Example: I run the heat for 5 minutes when I start the car, and it finally gets warm. I then turn it off for 10 minutes or so. I then have to run the heat again for another 5 minutes before it starts to get warm again. It takes a lot of energy to run the heater in the 2012 model (about 5,000 watts). The mid and upper level 2013 models have heat-pump heaters, which should be about 4x's more efficient. That would be nice.

As for EV friendly, Western WA now has about 2-dozen level-III "fast-charge" (20 minute) points along the interstates, Oregon has nearly 30 now. The greater Seattle area has about 2,000 public level-II charging stations around.

Although so far, I've been able to get away with the level-I 110v wall plug "trickle" charger by charging at home at night ...


Thanks for the info.
 
2013-02-28 05:15:49 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The Audi Q5 is where it is at. But it's not a car, it's a "cross over".

I call it the Mom-wagon, but with 3.2 liter engine this Mom-wagon will blow your doors off.


Wait for the SQ5 this fall... I would seriously consider trading my S4 for one if I weren't so far ahead on it.
 
2013-02-28 05:22:20 PM

rtaylor92: I really think the auto-industry is in for a huge crash as the younger generations are under-paid and under-promoted and none of the new grads are racing out to buy their first car like they used to when they got that first job. Between the poor economic standing of Gen Y and younger and their general lack of passion for cars, the industry is BONED.


Two people I know got new cars when they got a new job. They didn't rush into it. Both of them waited about 3 months and put forward a decent down payment...
Then the department was outsourced to Hungary and everyone got laid off. I doubt either one of them is ever going to buy new in the next few decades.
And I desperately need a new ride, but where is the sense in getting into a 5 year car loan when you have no guarantee you'll even be employed at the same place for that long or you'll even afford to put gas in it after the payment. If I do buy, it's probably going to be something 10 years old because anything newer seems to cost just as much as something brand new.

fark it, looked at a 2007 Honda Fit. The upholstry had been torn up by a dog, and patched badly. Dealer's price? $12-farking-K.
 
2013-02-28 05:41:47 PM

dumbobruni: in other news, new car warranties and replacement loaner cars don't exist.

most premium brands make the experience as painless as possible (towed from your house, loaner dropped off).


Yeah This

Went from Land Rover to a GMC product and was absolutely shocked in the drop of customer service. Spent just as much on the Yukon as I did my Land Rovers but didn't get anywhere near the service. Loaner? Dont make me laugh. Clean it? They looked at me like I was high. Wouldn't even pull it around for me, just threw me the keys and told me it was in the back. Eff 'em. I tried to buy American and I got American attitude. Audi, Rover, or Mercedes from now on. Not only are the products better but the service isn't even close.
 
2013-02-28 05:48:38 PM
Ahh, yes...Mercedes, the pinnacle of automotive engineering.  You pay for the car twice, once upon purchase then again trying to maintain it
 
2013-02-28 05:52:29 PM

mjohnson71: MrSteve007: Moopy Mac: How is that possible? Isn't the invoice for that car over $33K?

I picked up mine in January, as the dealers were clearing out stock for the upgraded 2013 model. The sticker on mine was about $38k, but it came with $7,500 Fed incentive and an additional $5,000 manufacturer incentive (plus EV's are sales tax free in WA State). So it was about $25,500. With a 2-year lease, I put $700 down, and pay $199 a month. The residual value/option to buy at the end of the lease is $21k.

The base 2013 model S starts at $21,300 (after fed incentives). They offer a 3-year $199 lease, but it takes a much steeper $1,999 down. I'd wait a few months, until they get more 2013 inventory on-hand, and try to get that lease with less money down.

wingnut396: Seriously looking at an EV or an EV-Hybrid in the next few months. How do you like your Leaf? You seem to be in a much more EV friendly part of the country than me, so it really making me want to go with something that has a gas engine. The $200/m lease on the Leaf looks pretty sweet though.

So far, I've really enjoyed it. There are some quirks however. The largest is the cabin air heater. Unlike in a regular car, it takes a while to warm up - even in mid-drive. Example: I run the heat for 5 minutes when I start the car, and it finally gets warm. I then turn it off for 10 minutes or so. I then have to run the heat again for another 5 minutes before it starts to get warm again. It takes a lot of energy to run the heater in the 2012 model (about 5,000 watts). The mid and upper level 2013 models have heat-pump heaters, which should be about 4x's more efficient. That would be nice.

As for EV friendly, Western WA now has about 2-dozen level-III "fast-charge" (20 minute) points along the interstates, Oregon has nearly 30 now. The greater Seattle area has about 2,000 public level-II charging stations around.

Although so far, I've been able to get away with the level-I 110v wall plug "trickle" charger by charging at h ...


I am anxiously awaiting the BMW i3.  It has a carbon fiber body, and a battery pack good for about 100 miles but also the little optional range extender motor is just a 600cc motorcycle engine which acts as generator when the miles get long.  I think they only put a 2 gallon gas tank or something in it but just enough to make sure you don't get range anxiety as that will take you another 150 miles or so.

http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i3/
warning auto play video thing.

www.bmw-i.com
 
2013-02-28 06:09:58 PM
The typical new vehicle is now more expensive than ever, averaging $30,500

WTF?  I make $120K a year, and my new car cost only $17K last year.  How is $30K typical for a new car?  I have never spent more than $20K on any car.
 
2013-02-28 06:10:11 PM
One of the biggest reasons ms bigbootay and I have a little cash in the bank and some retirement accounts is that as our wages have gone up a bit over the years we have resisted the urge to spend a substantial portion of our income on vehicles/insurance.  We drive our 12 and 21 year old beaters around while watching people who make half as much sinking a very large percentage of their incomes into their wheels. Which is fine. Life is full of choices. I am choosing to drive shiatty cars in the hopes that I don't have to scavenge for dog food after I'm out of my peak earnings years.
 
2013-02-28 06:17:14 PM

space1999: I have never spent more than $20K on any car.


Me either and I'm 47.  We're in the same earnings ballpark and the last car I bought was 8k and the one before that was 3k. Yes, I could walk out with a brand new whatever the fark this evening but it's not worth it. I have no resentment or envy whatsoever but one of my pet peeves is watching someone talk themselves into a 25-35k new car because they have to drive to work and they can't afford to be dealing with repairs. Also fine - whatever makes you happy, it's just that when i see that kind of reasoning I have to conclude that their relationship with math is a very distant one.
 
2013-02-28 06:21:27 PM

JohnBigBootay: One of the biggest reasons ms bigbootay and I have a little cash in the bank and some retirement accounts is that as our wages have gone up a bit over the years we have resisted the urge to spend a substantial portion of our income on vehicles/insurance.  We drive our 12 and 21 year old beaters around while watching people who make half as much sinking a very large percentage of their incomes into their wheels. Which is fine. Life is full of choices. I am choosing to drive shiatty cars in the hopes that I don't have to scavenge for dog food after I'm out of my peak earnings years.


I'm with you there. Shortly after I graduated from college (25 years ago), I had a good-paying job so I decided to treat myself and buy a brand new Acura, which was way more car than I needed. The first couple months I really enjoyed it. That car was fast, quiet and comfortable. But after that, the fascination with that car cooled, and it became just a tool to get me to where I needed to go. Ever since then, we've bought modest cars (wife drives a Toyota Sienna van and I have a Nissan Altima) and every car I have owned gets driven until it got way too expensive to repair.

I don't criticize people who love to buy expensive cars - even if their incomes don't justify it. For some people, driving a nice car brings them a lot of joy. More power to them. For me, I get much more pleasure having money saved rather than driving a fancy car.
 
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