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(Canoe)   School authorities say that transgendered six-year old is no longer allowed to use the girl's room at the school. Wow, dick move   (cnews.canoe.ca) divider line 181
    More: Stupid, public accommodations, Civil Rights Commission, Human Rights Act, elementary schools, male genitalia  
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7267 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2013 at 10:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-28 10:03:44 AM
16 votes:
Wow, since a six year old is fundamentally incapable of understanding gender roles, how farked up does Mom have to be in this situation. I guess she really wanted a daughter.
2013-02-28 10:20:03 AM
12 votes:
Let's review: Mom has four kids. According to mom, one is full-blown autistic, one "measures on the autistic scale", one had a massive brain injury at 4 months and is incurably damaged and finally, one is "neuro-typical". So BAM, the only norm is suddenly transgender. I think mommy has a serious case of Munschausen or is on one hell of a martyr trip.
2013-02-28 10:09:22 AM
11 votes:
I am fully in support of LGBT rights, but in this case a six year old does not have a clear enough understanding of him/herself to be making these decisions.

I have to agree with earlier posters in that the mother here is way screwed up.

tfa says the kid prefers pink... cool nothing wrong with that, he likes girl toys fine... but in no way does he need to be using the girls restroom at age 6 in an elementary school...

These parents are as bad as pageant parents in projecting their own screwed up psych on the kids
2013-02-28 10:07:38 AM
11 votes:

orbister: Two issues here. First of all, she's a girl with male genitals


They call those boys, from where I was raised.
2013-02-28 10:02:41 AM
11 votes:
Wow, that kid's parents must be MESSED up.
2013-02-28 10:07:03 AM
10 votes:
I am 110% okay with people who are transgender. While I admit I'm very cautious to assign the term transgender to someone who hasn't reached sexual maturity yet, I honestly don't see it as my problem to deal with.

However, bathrooms aren't divided by gender (what you identify as).
They are divided by sex (what body parts you have).

Maybe I'm being terribly unfair, but my response to the child and parents is "tough".
2013-02-28 10:06:28 AM
8 votes:
Transgendered at six?  What did the parents catch the kid playing dressup in his sister's clothes one day and just go full retard or something?  Seems way to early to make the call on the kid and more like creepy parents grooming the kid to be a transgender or something that ends up on an extra farked up episode of Law and Order.

/also considering the kid has access to gender neutral facilities, not seeing the problem
//seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles and all that at 6 to make a decision
/I think thought girls were gross and had cooties back then, yet I grew out of that
2013-02-28 10:09:35 AM
7 votes:
Child protective services need to rescue this kid and his siblings from their farked up parents.
2013-02-28 10:15:52 AM
5 votes:
Name the mental illness...

1. unwarranted sense of importance and paranoia
2. Lack of empathy for others
3. delusions and a skewed sense of reality
4. strange behavior and illogical behavior

Am I talking about schizophrenia? Paranoid Psychosis? NO! TRANSGENDERISM!

1. Unwarranted sense of importance and paranoia-  "I identify as a woman, it is MY right to do so, you are just homo-trans phobic if you disagree!"
2. Lack of empathy- "I identify as a woman, it does not matter if real women do not want me in the bathroom with them, its all about what I identify as, thats all that matters!"
3. delusions and skewed sense of reality- "I feel like im born in the wrong body, I am a woman despite all biological signs to the contrary"
4. Strange behavior and illogical behavior- "I will wear the most horrid womens clothes, perhaps some garbage found in the back of my grandmas closet or something no regular woman would wanna wear JUST to prove im a woman. Also women wear heels all day everywhere, so do I. Nevermind that I am fooling no one and I look like a trainwreck hit a womens big and tall, IM A LADY, BUB"
2013-02-28 06:24:42 PM
4 votes:

shkkmo: Wow, this thread is full of assholes.


It sure is.  Asshole lunatics who've taken a single pseudo-scientific college gender studies course and decided they know best about everything, and want to force all of society to function just the way a tiny minority want it to, no matter how the majority feels.  And who have nothing but love for a woman who is willing to prostitute her own child to push her idiot causes.

Real serious assholes.
2013-02-28 10:21:58 AM
4 votes:

ha-ha-guy: Exactly buy the kid the toys he wants, but hold off on making the final call until he makes it through puberty.


Puberty is the jump-off point. I agree that they should delay the decision as long as possible for the kid to make up their own mind, but somebody who transitions before puberty has an astronomically better chance of passing and looking good in their new body than somebody who transitions after puberty.

Yes, it's good to err on the side of caution, but if the kid is really sure at the age of 12, and has been sure all their lives, then you're setting them up in a much better position in life by letting them go for it rather than force them to wait until they're 16/17.
2013-02-28 10:15:15 AM
4 votes:
in before fark geneticists

the mom is a goddamn loon
2013-02-28 10:14:13 AM
4 votes:
Look i'm all for adults being able to have whatever sort of lifestyle they want, but it seems slightly disturbing that a six year old boy can just say "I have decided i'm a girl, therefore you have to let me use the women's bathroom". If this precedent stands, i suspect that nearly 100% of teenage males in junior high will voluntarily identify as female in exchange for unrestricted access to the female locker room.
2013-02-28 10:09:44 AM
4 votes:
If your six year old has a penis he uses the boys bathroom. If your six year old has a vagina she uses the girls bathroom. It really isn't that difficult.

BTW, you have really f*cked up your six year old.
2013-02-28 10:06:46 AM
4 votes:
The transgender author of TFA couldn't possibly have an agenda of her own, right?

/ my 10-yr old had certain feminine qualities when he was 4 or 5 so I guess we did him a huge disservice by not identifying him as a girl at that point.

// okay - so he used to be a brony but I fail to see where that's relevant.
2013-02-28 10:05:18 AM
4 votes:
FTFA: It said the district's decision "took into account not only Coy but other students in the building, their parents, and the future impact a boy with male genitals using a girls' bathroom would have as Coy grew older."

Two issues here. First of all, she's a girl with male genitals, not a boy with male genitals. Secondly, who the hell is going to see them in the girls toilet? Do they check flaps before landing?
2013-02-28 11:37:30 AM
3 votes:

orbister: he's a boy with a neurological disorder, not a girl with male genitals


FTFY
2013-02-28 11:18:54 AM
3 votes:

JohnnyC: I find this whole story to be strange. At what point did the little boy decide to dress and act like a little girl? Was this a choice the boy made or his parents made? Seems like something one would decide later in life after said person had finished developing (physically and mentally).


This isn't a little boy. She is a little girl who happened to be born into a body with the wrong appendages. Most children have a very firm gender identity by about 2 or 3 years old (which is coincidentally when society starts applying gender norms on children.) If you do a bit of research, you will see that this situation is not unusual for transgender people. They tend to know and be able to express their gender at a very young age. It takes very loving and accepting parents to nurture them in their journey given how horrifically our culture handles trans issues. Just look at this thread.
2013-02-28 10:20:35 AM
3 votes:
Most people who are transgendered state that they knew very early on that they didn't feel right within their body or socially constructed gender. Six is just unusual because the parents aren't forcing their idea of what she should be of her.
2013-02-28 10:16:18 AM
3 votes:
Does it have a penis or a vagina?

That's really the only question that needs to be asked here.

I don't care what you (or your mom) thinks you are, nature has actually given you a pretty big clue as to what you actually are if you just look down.
2013-02-28 10:16:04 AM
3 votes:

orbister: First of all, she's a girl with male genitals, not a boy with male genitals.


And I'm a bird without wings.
2013-02-28 10:15:41 AM
3 votes:

TheDumbBlonde: In another interview, the mother in question described this child as "our neuro-typical child". This family is farked.


The expression "neuro typical" seems a little precious to me, but I can see why people prefer not to refer to children without ASD or other issues as "normal". A bit like civilised people say "gay" and "straight", not "gay" and "normal".
2013-02-28 10:12:32 AM
3 votes:

orbister: ha-ha-guy: //seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles

It's not a matter of choosing a role. It's a matter of knowing who you are.



At 6, he chooses to be whatever his parents encourage him to be. 'Cause he's farking 6 already.
2013-02-28 10:11:05 AM
3 votes:

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: orbister: Two issues here. First of all, she's a girl with male genitals

They call those boys, from where I was raised.


Just like they call albino africans "white", I presume.
2013-02-28 10:10:33 AM
3 votes:
In another interview, the mother in question described this child as "our neuro-typical child". This family is farked.
2013-02-28 01:53:29 PM
2 votes:

Theaetetus: quietwalker: As the comic notes, this kid is going to get bullied.

This may be a suggestion completely out of left field, but how about we try stopping the bully, rather than forcing the victim to conform?

Consider, rather than using the passive voice "the kid is going to get bullied," we could use the active voice "the bully will harass the kid," which focuses on the real problem - the actor.


Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.
2013-02-28 01:11:23 PM
2 votes:
The parents of that kid should have their parental rights stripped...
They are clearly warping that child's mind.
If my REAL daughter informed me some boy was using her restroom at school under the guise of being a girl, "deep-down inside"...
I'd scream at th school until they threw that thing out of her bathroom or I'd move her to a private school that didn't allow ridiculous shiat like this dumb ass farkin topic.
fark THIS shiat!
2013-02-28 12:55:53 PM
2 votes:

Joe Blowme: ginandbacon: Joe Blowme: Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.

You should really get up to speed with current gender research. You look incredibly ignorant and prejudiced.


You do realise the LITTLE BOY is 6 right? And you say i'm the ignorant one? Wow, please never have children.
You really need to get up to speed with reality.


That little girl is about  2-4 years past the age when children understand and can express gender. No one is talking about sexuality here. It's gender. She identifies as female. Her brain sends her signals that she is female. Her body doesn't match up to her identification. If you don't get this insanely simple concept, then yes. You are ignorant.
2013-02-28 12:37:45 PM
2 votes:

ginandbacon: JohnnyC: if your physical body is male then you're male,

Wrong.

He can never give birth, his body will never produce the same hormones, he will never have a menstruation cycle, and will never go through menopause. He very well may go through life wanting to experience life as a female, but he never really will.

And wrong again. My uterus is not what makes me female. It make me menstruate. Don't equate the two things. There are plenty of women who have had hysterectomies and their ovaries removed who are still women.

You should do some research and put some thought into this before spouting off.



Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.
2013-02-28 11:34:29 AM
2 votes:

loaba: orbister: ha-ha-guy: //seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles

It's not a matter of choosing a role. It's a matter of knowing who you are.


At 6, he chooses to be whatever his parents encourage him to be. 'Cause he's farking 6 already.


It's funny how tenaciously, even desperately, people cling to old-fashioned notions of sex and gender no matter what the science actually says.  It's like Young-Earth creationists building museums to show Jesus riding a dinosaur.
2013-02-28 11:32:09 AM
2 votes:

quietwalker: As the comic notes, this kid is going to get bullied.


This may be a suggestion completely out of left field, but how about we try stopping the bully, rather than forcing the victim to conform?

Consider, rather than using the passive voice "the kid is going to get bullied," we could use the active voice "the bully will harass the kid," which focuses on the real problem - the actor.
2013-02-28 11:14:29 AM
2 votes:
I have a nephew that thought he was a lion at that age and would roar at people. Did we send him to the Serengeti to live with the other beasts? of course not. We let it work itself and he grew into the perfect little self-centered asshole teen that he is today.
2013-02-28 11:12:12 AM
2 votes:
News flash:  The part we made up is whether "boys" or "girls" wear dresses or have their hair cut in a specific way.  Your genetics are your genetics, the rest is trained.  You aren't a "girl" just for liking "girly" things.  You're a boy who prefers girly things, probably because of your overbearing and ridiculous mother.  We didn't make up your penis, we made up the stupid idea that vaginas are associated with fashion:
si.wsj.net

musicals:
images.zap2it.com

dolls:

pictures.picpedia.com

and cooking:

static.guim.co.uk

long hair

cdn.zmemusic.com

and elaborate dresses and hats

images.theage.com.au
2013-02-28 11:09:43 AM
2 votes:

ha-ha-guy: sudo give me more cowbell: I don't think I could ever feel justified in actively reprogramming my child's mind.

What if he was a serial killer and tortured small animals but some pill could level out the aggression.  Which is not to say that transgenderism is comparable to such, but we do have set precedents for going in and rewiring.  Although those are done normally due to the fact the person is a threat to society, whereas a transgender is really only a threat to themselves (depression leading to self harm).  Yet I'd imagine a lot of parents would lobby to have access to the rewiring option and use it.

I have to admit it was something like "We can dump 5 gallons of stuff into your son and there is a 90% chance he goes through life happy as a man" vs "Well it will be a five year process, possibly a couple of surgeries, and a 20% chance of severe depression and social stigmatization afterwards", that's a tough choice to ponder.


Yeah, ok. I overstated when I said I'd never feel justified in reprogramming my child's mind. If they were a serial killer or something like that, then sure, of course I would try to remove those kinds of impulses.

But I'm still convinced that the overwhelming majority of the depression/self-harm that is seen in transgendered people is the result of societal dickishness. I also think that we really ought to take a look at some history on a similar theme: Not so long ago homosexuality was seen as a deviant mental illness that needed to be treated and purged chemicall (as a "compassionate measure" of course) because such people couldn't possibly live happy lives. Now we can clearly see that there are lots of very happy gay people, and that the problem was ours, not theirs.

Of course, I'm not saying transgenderism and homosexuality are interchangeable concepts -they're not, and they get mixed up all too often- but the historical lesson still seems apt.
2013-02-28 10:53:52 AM
2 votes:

ha-ha-guy: Supposedly even post transition they're still at a much higher risk rate for depression. The debate seems to focus on how much of that is from internal issues the transition didn't help with versus society being dicks to them.


True, but I'd have no problem betting my life savings that item #2 plays a huge role.

ha-ha-guy: That said though the consensus seems to be that within a few decades there will be a medical option for catching gender issues early and just rewiring the brain to match the physical parts and parents may have to make that call early.

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
Is not too keen on your Psychotactic treatments.

Seriously though, being transgender is definitely no fun, but rewiring your brain to remove it is essentially wiping your personhood out of existence. Even if the medical technology were available (and I highly doubt that it will be anytime soon.) I don't think I could ever feel justified in actively reprogramming my child's mind.
2013-02-28 10:52:11 AM
2 votes:
Wow, this thread is full of assholes.
2013-02-28 10:50:47 AM
2 votes:
Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
2013-02-28 10:47:59 AM
2 votes:
Why segregate genders at all at that age? Why do sexual organs have to be the deciding factor?  Why not have gender neutral bathrooms where the only qualification to use it is if you have a colon and urethra or medical facsimile?
2013-02-28 10:43:46 AM
2 votes:

Kiwimann: Yay, another transgender thread.  Make with all your vitriol.  I'll be elsewhere.


I don't think there is any vitriol. Just many of us questioning if a 6 year old child is capable of making a major gender identifying decision.
2013-02-28 10:43:10 AM
2 votes:

MelGoesOnTour: Welcome Kathryn!  First off, why don't you tell us a little about you and your family.I am a mom of 4 amazing, wonderful, awesome children (and one on the way!).  Dakota is 5 1/2 years old and has Autism. Coy, Max, and Lily are 3 1/2 year old triplets. Coy is our special little neuro-typical child. Max is also on the Autism spectrum. Lily had a very bad brain injury as a 4 month old and is about like having a 1-2 month old baby, but is so much fun (and feisty!).  I work full time at home as Lily's nurse as well as being a professional photographer outside the home.  My husband, Jeremy, is a full time student at two colleges and should be done with school in Spring 2012.
- See more at: http://visionarymom.com/an-interview-with-kathryn-mathis/#sthash.bMgs X miw.dpuf Check out this interview with the mom (who's pretty hot). Looks like they're got a pretty farked up family all the way around:

http://visionarymom.com/an-interview-with-kathryn-mathis/


I missed the part about being knocked up again. Let's all meet back here in a few years and see what's wrong with the new one. Wagers?
2013-02-28 10:34:53 AM
2 votes:

sno man: ha-ha-guy: Transgendered at six?  What did the parents catch the kid playing dressup in his sister's clothes one day and just go full retard or something?  Seems way to early to make the call on the kid and more like creepy parents grooming the kid to be a transgender or something that ends up on an extra farked up episode of Law and Order.

/also considering the kid has access to gender neutral facilities, not seeing the problem
//seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles and all that at 6 to make a decision
/I think thought girls were gross and had cooties back then, yet I grew out of that

There is a story of a kid (I think) from Saskatchewan that had a botched circumcision back in the late 60's.  Bad enough that they weren't able to save what was left and the decision was made that the kid would surgically become a girl, and simply raised that way.  So from about 6 months or so the kid was a girl.  Around the time the kid was 5 (he) tore off his dress, destroyed all his dolls and stole his brothers toy cars. He was pretty messed up and eventually took his own life.  My point was just because you look like a thing doesn't make you that thing.  And kids know, they may not have enough experience or context to express it all that well, but they know.


I think Reimer also got an extra helping of farked up quackery from his shrink at an early age.
2013-02-28 10:34:34 AM
2 votes:
Wow. Fark has been really a quite nasty place to be the last few days. At least Coy has parents who listen to her and stand up for her.
2013-02-28 10:26:50 AM
2 votes:

loaba: Theaetetus: I don't see why it's an issue. Just get rid of the group pissing trough in the boy's bathroom and let everyone use a toilet stall with a door. Frankly, it'd be more sanitary anyway, and then it wouldn't matter what parts you have.

What the hell bass-ackwards school did you go to? Wall urinals, man. They're, like, typical and stuff.


And they're also unsanitary and lack privacy. What's wrong with stalls?
2013-02-28 10:24:57 AM
2 votes:
call me ignorant, but I didn't think one could have a sexual idenity until they were old enough to get a boner/wet.  I mean maybe the kid is just a effeminate guy who will have an interest in girls as he gets older, or maybe he's just gay, but I just don't get the whole he's a transgender at 6. I'm 26, and still trying to figure out my sexuality, I truly doubt any six year old (who probably/hopefully doesn't know the difference the sexual roles) could have it so figured out.  I mean if it's just because he likes pink and barbies over blue and matchboxes, then they are probably wrong, I've had many nephews that preferred dolls at six and girls at 13, and nieces that prefer being tom boy only to switch to makeup and dresses when they got boyfriends.

Raise him how nature intended, as a boy, at least until he's old enough to realize the real differences of genders.
2013-02-28 10:22:48 AM
2 votes:
I don't see why it's an issue. Just get rid of the group pissing trough in the boy's bathroom and let everyone use a toilet stall with a door. Frankly, it'd be more sanitary anyway, and then it wouldn't matter what parts you have.
2013-02-28 10:19:35 AM
2 votes:

orbister: Secondly, who the hell is going to see them in the girls toilet? Do they check flaps before landing?


She'll leave the toilet seats up all the time. Just imagine the trauma...
=Smidge=
2013-02-28 10:19:35 AM
2 votes:
i512.photobucket.com
2013-02-28 10:15:21 AM
2 votes:

Mager: Wow, since a six year old is fundamentally incapable of understanding gender roles, how farked up does Mom have to be in this situation. I guess she really wanted a daughter.


The concept of gender starts to form around 2 or 3 years. It's why (most) 5 year old boys like GI Joe but not Barbie's magical adventure.
2013-02-28 10:10:39 AM
2 votes:
Bigots... still on the wrong side of history.
2013-02-28 10:09:58 AM
2 votes:

orbister: Two issues here. First of all, she's a girl with male genitals,


On issue here: Grow a brain.
2013-02-28 10:04:48 AM
2 votes:
Dude... it's a six-year-old. That could change again after puberty; who knows. Second, it's going to be difficult to explain that to the kids of the opposite gender of the bathroom he/she is using.
2013-02-28 10:03:50 AM
2 votes:

The first-grader, Coy Mathis, was born male but identifies as female


And here I was thinking that surgery was required for someone to be transgender.
2013-03-01 01:35:53 AM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: AverageAmericanGuy: You are a sick person get help.


Do you not like where the research you've quoted leads?
2013-03-01 01:15:47 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: AverageAmericanGuy: If we could 'cure' homosexuality in utero by application of testosterone or, conversely, estrogen at the appropriate timings, would that be something good? We'd be, in essence, correcting a biological malformation, like putting braces on crooked teeth or fixing a cleft palate.

I know you're a troll, but I'll bite for the sake of intellectual argument.


Except for the fact that homosexuality, bisexuality, and other sexual orientations have not been considered a disease since the 1970s, you might have a point. Unlike pathological sexual orientations, like pedophilia, these cause no harm to any individuals, and are not considered "abnormalities" or "malformations" just because they differentiate from a societal norm in the United States. They are normal variations of sexual orientation - which is completely different as a concept from gender identity, which - in turn, is a completely different concept than sexual identity. Chromosomally, someone can be male - capable of producing sperm - and developmentally grow a "female" brain that is not a homosexual in sexual orientation.

Do you not say in your own comment that the people who have these deviations suffer deeply because of them? While social acceptance may be a worthy goal, if medical science can fix the deviation (which has a physical cause), are we willing to let the deviation persist knowing that children born with the gender confusion will suffer for it?

Deviation from a social norm is not a disease.

I am not saying it is. I am only referring to the citations above describing the in utero physical mechanisms which lead to the abnormal brain development. We use hormone treatments all the time: to prevent pregnancy, to allay the effects of menopause, to augment athletic performance, etc. The treated conditions aren't diseases, but they are unwanted conditions.

Is gender confusion something that should be embraced? If it is treatable, isn't it worth treating when the costs are small rather than after the fact when the costs are astronomical and the psychological damage has already been wrought?

It's not something as simple as "Little johnny likes to play with dolls, so he MUST be a girl." To even begin sex reassignment therapy, a child has to be evaluated by multiple professionals in pediatric psychiatry and psychology, and then live as the gender he/she is transitioning to for years before starting sex reassignment hormonal therapy. The REASON they target children that early for the drug therapy is that if they undergo puberty before beginning treatment, they develop secondary sex characteristics, and it become far more dangerous, painful, and surgically intensive to perform reassignment - requiring multiple plastic surgery procedures. By targeting them BEFORE puberty and the development of secondary sex characteristics, they actually can look the role they feel. It's the reason the Europeans will begin in childhood with SRS.

I'm suggesting, then, only a shift in the treatment. And rather than ushering the deviation along, I'm suggesting it be stopped in its tracks at the onset of the developmental change. If, as maggie has described above, the problem is a lack or an abundance of the wrong hormone during fetal development, is this not something that can be identified pretty easily as a target for hormone treatment? If the transgendered individuals are that way because of an accident during their time in the womb, why the adamancy against treatment?

Contrary to what some have suggested in this thread, it's bloody hard for someone to live as the opposite gender in the United States before starting SRS. It's not a sexual fetish, either. These people face ridicule, domestic and workplace violence and harassment, and have high rates of suicide, rape, assault, and murder.

And that's terrible. But it's only germane to the problem of social acceptance, which I completely support. Of course people shouldn't be forced to live terrible lives at the hands of terrible people.

What if that could be made moot by solving the problem of gender confusion? That's what I'm suggesting. Not to demean people for who they are but to make sure that the mistakes of nature (abnormal hormone levels at specific phases of fetal development) are resolved before they take their toll on the individual.

In addition, you have the problem of administering the right dose at the right time and doing so in a manner that does not adversely effect the mother or the fetus. Sex hormones, in high doses, can be teratogenic in fetal development, and pose very high risks of injury or death to the expecting mother. In addition, you have the legal, ethical, and moral problems of conducting human experimentation on an unborn fetus - which are so monumental that it makes that kind of research very rare and mostly non-invasive.

Obviously we are nowhere near being able to provide the treatments I'm suggesting. But technology progresses. Medicine progresses. Is it not worthwhile to pursue solutions to problems that can be solved?
2013-02-28 11:01:58 PM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: BronyMedic: they actually can look the role they feel. It's the reason the Europeans will begin in childhood with SRS.

It was my understanding, forgive me if I'm wrong, SRS sexual reassignment surgery, that's the actual reconstruction of the genitals and that only happens once the child reaches 18 at the earliest. Although HRT hormone replacement therapy should begin before the secondary sexual characteristics are formed.ie right before or at puberty.





Kim Petras had hers at sixteen, and is listed in the article as the youngest. And there was a thread on Fark at the time, with many of the usual suspects posting the usual ignorant garbage.
2013-02-28 10:46:41 PM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: they actually can look the role they feel. It's the reason the Europeans will begin in childhood with SRS.


It was my understanding, forgive me if I'm wrong, SRS sexual reassignment surgery, that's the actual reconstruction of the genitals and that only happens once the child reaches 18 at the earliest. Although HRT hormone replacement therapy should begin before the secondary sexual characteristics are formed.ie right before or at puberty.
2013-02-28 10:29:22 PM
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: If we could 'cure' homosexuality in utero by application of testosterone or, conversely, estrogen at the appropriate timings, would that be something good? We'd be, in essence, correcting a biological malformation, like putting braces on crooked teeth or fixing a cleft palate.


I know you're a troll, but I'll bite for the sake of intellectual argument.

Except for the fact that homosexuality, bisexuality, and other sexual orientations have not been considered a disease since the 1970s, you might have a point. Unlike pathological sexual orientations, like pedophilia, these cause no harm to any individuals, and are not considered "abnormalities" or "malformations" just because they differentiate from a societal norm in the United States. They are normal variations of sexual orientation - which is completely different as a concept from gender identity, which - in turn, is a completely different concept than sexual identity. Chromosomally, someone can be male - capable of producing sperm - and developmentally grow a "female" brain that is not a homosexual in sexual orientation.

Deviation from a social norm is not a disease.

It's not something as simple as "Little johnny likes to play with dolls, so he MUST be a girl." To even begin sex reassignment therapy, a child has to be evaluated by multiple professionals in pediatric psychiatry and psychology, and then live as the gender he/she is transitioning to for years before starting sex reassignment hormonal therapy. The REASON they target children that early for the drug therapy is that if they undergo puberty before beginning treatment, they develop secondary sex characteristics, and it become far more dangerous, painful, and surgically intensive to perform reassignment - requiring multiple plastic surgery procedures. By targeting them BEFORE puberty and the development of secondary sex characteristics, they actually can look the role they feel. It's the reason the Europeans will begin in childhood with SRS.

Contrary to what some have suggested in this thread, it's bloody hard for someone to live as the opposite gender in the United States before starting SRS. It's not a sexual fetish, either. These people face ridicule, domestic and workplace violence and harassment, and have high rates of suicide, rape, assault, and murder.

In addition, you have the problem of administering the right dose at the right time and doing so in a manner that does not adversely effect the mother or the fetus. Sex hormones, in high doses, can be teratogenic in fetal development, and pose very high risks of injury or death to the expecting mother. In addition, you have the legal, ethical, and moral problems of conducting human experimentation on an unborn fetus - which are so monumental that it makes that kind of research very rare and mostly non-invasive.
2013-02-28 08:10:52 PM
1 votes:
Ah, the intolerant tolerant. Those, who with open arms accept everything and everybody, love everything. They celebrate everyone's life choices regardless of the inevitable outcome based on the reality we live in. However, if you disagree with the wonderfully enlightened indivuidal, then you are an ignorant bigot, and should "educate yourself" even if you may actually have more education than them. Those who are loving, sensitive, and caring of everyone, except those that disagree with them.They are the real problem with society.It's almost like a...crusade, of sorts.Trying to force people to change their minds and believe the same you do is rather bigoted, and ignorant.
2013-02-28 07:53:50 PM
1 votes:

sudo give me more cowbell: So then this is a chick?


And this?

farm2.static.flickr.com

(If you're going to do a GIS on "Buck Angel" at work, make sure that safe search is on. You have been warned.)
2013-02-28 05:58:44 PM
1 votes:

HAMMERTOE: orbister: First of all, she's a girl with male genitals, not a boy with male genitals.

And I'm a bird without wings.


I'm a hornless Unicorn!
2013-02-28 05:10:12 PM
1 votes:

sno man: GanjSmokr: OK, let's. "Him/He" = boy = has penis, "Her/She" = girl = has vagina.

So any boy that has, for whatever reason, become penisless are automatically girls? Because there isn't a lot of room for them to be boys by that definition.


Did they get a vagina when they lost their penis?
2013-02-28 05:10:00 PM
1 votes:

LoneWolf343: gja: Also, I have many TG friends and colleagues. A few friends have even taken the step to TS (full SRS)

If you are, you're not a very good friend.


A good friend is one who listens well and then tells you the truth.
2013-02-28 05:05:03 PM
1 votes:

gja: The My Little Pony Killer: gja: The My Little Pony Killer: gja: So, you think 6 year of age is adequate for a person to decide such matters as gender?

Six is well past adequate, seeing as how kids form ideas about gender (as well as assigning those ideas) by the ages of 3-4.

That is YOUR opinion and you are free and entitled to have, hold and espouse it. But that does not make it a universally accepted truth.
I stand by my statement that 6 is, generally, too you for a mature for that person to fully comprehend all the ramifications associated with life-choices of this magnitude and  scope.

Also, stop using one sentence as a single-point of focus for your retorts, that is an attempt to take things out of context and everyone can see that upon reading my full post.

This is not an opinion.  Try reading a study or two before spouting off YOUR opinions.

I have read many a study. Also, I have many TG friends and colleagues. A few friends have even taken the step to TS (full SRS).
It is NOT a UNIVERSALLY accepted scientifically supported fact that all people form their final gender orientation at such an early age.
I got that very clearly from the many convo's we have had over more meals and holidays than I can remember.
Perhaps after you have met some folks who have lived this, and have listened to their accounts and feelings you will be a bit more sensitive to this issue and how it impacted their lives.

Please show ma a study from an accredited, non-bias source that has been accepted as the universally accepted reference for this matter.
Hint: there is none. There are more studies than you can warehouse, but none to date have made an exhaustive enough sampling to be considered an unimpeachable and a single source of expert subject matter.

I have an open mind and will read any reasonable study you link in. When I have a moment I will link in some of the studies I have gone over, I am just a tad buried in some horrible 'systems hell' at the moment.


I'm sorry what's FINAL here? the kid is six, no one is having surgery...  The kid identifies as female. IF that changes it changes...
2013-02-28 05:03:54 PM
1 votes:

TheDumbBlonde: Let's review some more:

Penis/boy Vagina/girl=Willfully ignorant, uneducated, illiterate, bigoted

Penis/vagina/boy/girl/whatever you feelhow your brain developed in the womb=Enlightened, tolerant, current, informed


Added some science for you.
2013-02-28 05:02:28 PM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Gyrfalcon: sno man: Voiceofreason01:
David Reimer

yea, that's him... that story is sad.

Of course, there's a huge difference between raising an actual boy as a girl just because his pee-pee got cut off, and a person who is a genuine transgender. And a six-year old whose mommy needs to feel special.

Why do you believe 1. there is a difference 2. the mom just needs to feel special?


1.) The difference is that Reimer wasn't female in the head. He was a cisexual male who lost his genitals and was raised as a female because of it. If anything, forcing a transgendered female (female-brain) to live as a male would yield similar results.
2013-02-28 05:00:35 PM
1 votes:
gja:
It is NOT a UNIVERSALLY accepted scientifically supported fact that all people form their final gender orientation at such an early age.

Most people do, though, wouldn't you agree?
2013-02-28 05:00:32 PM
1 votes:

GanjSmokr: OK, let's. "Him/He" = boy = has penis, "Her/She" = girl = has vagina.


So any boy that has, for whatever reason, become penisless are automatically girls? Because there isn't a lot of room for them to be boys by that definition.
2013-02-28 04:48:14 PM
1 votes:

Balrog: What TFA doesn't tell you, but this FA does, is that the kid supposedly decided she was a girl at age 18 months, and Mommy and Daddy went along with it.

There's a big difference between 18 months and 6 years.


That article says "Coy Mathis, born a male triplet, has behaved like a girl since she was 18 months old. When her brother Max was consumed with dinosaurs, she was playing with Barbie dolls. By 4, she was telling her mother that something was wrong with her body. "

Playing with barbies doesn't make one a girl or mean that she vocalized or understood a difference in gender at two years of age. The continuation of identifying as girl so far does suggest that she is transgendered/transsexual.

/Hope I said that well enough.
2013-02-28 04:43:49 PM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: ginandbacon: Joe Blowme: Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.

You should really get up to speed with current gender research. You look incredibly ignorant and prejudiced.


You do realise the LITTLE BOY is 6 right? And you say i'm the ignorant one? Wow, please never have children.
You really need to get up to speed with reality.


You do realize LITTLE KIDS understand and place gender by the time they're three and four years old?  Why yes Virginia, you ARE the ignorant one.
2013-02-28 04:33:01 PM
1 votes:

seniorgato: A male is in a female bathroom, it's a ticking time bomb regardless of how you identify yourself.  Frankly, you will be identified as male by others.


From TFA:  other students and teachers do not notice that Coy has male genitals,
Apparently, they don't.

One touch. One look. One gesture.  Suddenly the school has a million dollar lawsuit on their hands.  You knew, and you let him in there! Especially... If he/she's still attracted to women.

... 6 year olds, dude. I don't think Coy's attracted to anyone at the moment.
2013-02-28 04:28:53 PM
1 votes:

ginandbacon: JohnnyC: the opposite of what it really is

This is a statement you need to rethink and rephrase. She experiences life as a girl. Her body doesn't reflect that. Which is reality? Her feelings or the fact that she has a penis? This is a very serious question. Do you honestly think that her genitalia are more important than her own identity?


A penis is reality. it can be touched, its physical, feelings about gender are brain chemicals reacting causing an emotional response thus not reality. Alter 1 chemical in the kids brain and he will think hes a farking zebra.. doesn't make it so
2013-02-28 04:27:38 PM
1 votes:
What TFA doesn't tell you, but this FA does, is that the kid supposedly decided she was a girl at age 18 months, and Mommy and Daddy went along with it.

There's a big difference between 18 months and 6 years.
2013-02-28 04:08:58 PM
1 votes:
I believe it is absolutely possible that a child who is destined to grow up transgendered may begin to identify (consciously or subconsciously) this as early as 6.

I also believe it is incredibly odd that these parents have something unusual about each one of their children.  The statistical odds on this?  And the fact that she always wanted to be involved with "special needs" children?  Jimminey Christmas.
2013-02-28 03:34:47 PM
1 votes:
When I was six I was convinced I had dragon wings growing out of my sides (hey, I was a kindergartner, not an ornithologist).  I was convinced I could feel the nubs and that they would sometimes heat up.
2013-02-28 03:32:23 PM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Jument: In my meaningless opinion, a 6 yo is not capable of comprehending the choice to change gender. That kid is going to have a very confusing next few decades.

Did you know at six? Whether you remember or not you did, and if someone tried to force you too dress and act as the opposite gender you would have known it was wrong for you.


Six is quite old enough to have a sense of gender. To know who you are.
2013-02-28 03:25:13 PM
1 votes:

Jument: In my meaningless opinion, a 6 yo is not capable of comprehending the choice to change gender. That kid is going to have a very confusing next few decades.


Did you know at six? Whether you remember or not you did, and if someone tried to force you too dress and act as the opposite gender you would have known it was wrong for you.
2013-02-28 03:20:53 PM
1 votes:

ciberido: It's funny how tenaciously, even desperately, people cling to old-fashioned notions of sex and gender no matter what the science actually says. It's like Young-Earth creationists building museums to show Jesus riding a dinosaur.


It's also "funny" how few people can read TFA and realize that this is in the news not because the mom's an AW but because this is going to court.

FTFA They also assert that the restroom restrictions, imposed by the Fountain-Fort Carson School District, violate Colorado's Anti-Discrimination Act, which prohibits schools from denying people access to a public accommodation because of their sexual orientation or transgender status.
2013-02-28 03:17:44 PM
1 votes:

Netrngr: Sorry maybe its because I'm old but when I was 6 I wore what my parents damn well bought for me, Identified with what I was told I was.


That would be because you are not transgender. Your statement is as stupid as saying "Kids can't be deaf, because when I was that age I could hear perfectly".
2013-02-28 03:11:43 PM
1 votes:
Sorry maybe its because I'm old but when I was 6 I wore what my parents damn well bought for me, Identified with what I was told I was. at 6 unless you have yer kid watching some really farked up TV they have no clue about gender roles other than mommies are girls and daddies are boys. that's seriously about it. If later on they identify as female and are aware of what that role entails then hooray let em be what they wanna be till then a lot of this seems like projection on the kid.
2013-02-28 03:01:53 PM
1 votes:
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how this child perceives or will perceive itself. It's not about 'mental gender', not about a girl in a boys body, or any natural or social 'norms'. It's about the basic biological necessity of going pee and poo. That's it. No 'gender self identification' needed. It's as basic as 'how you are built determined what room you use'.

IF
CHROMOSOMES = XY AND PENIS = TRUE THEN
BATHROOM = MALE
ELSE IF
CHROMOSOMES = XX AND VAGINA = TRUE THEN
BATHROOM = FEMALE
ELSE
REM XXX, XXY, XYY, ETC
BATHROOM = OTHER
END IF

I'd say we'd all be better off if we just took all these maggots and made everything gender neutral. ONE bathroom, ONE locker room, ONE shower area, etc. Force them all to pee, shower, and change in front of each other to the point that they become sick of seeing each other, and to the point where seeing each other is no big deal. Wonder what the big brained sociologists have to say about that.
2013-02-28 02:57:05 PM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: Transgendered at six?  What did the parents catch the kid playing dressup in his sister's clothes one day and just go full retard or something?  Seems way to early to make the call on the kid and more like creepy parents grooming the kid to be a transgender or something that ends up on an extra farked up episode of Law and Order.

/also considering the kid has access to gender neutral facilities, not seeing the problem
//seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles and all that at 6 to make a decision
/I think thought girls were gross and had cooties back then, yet I grew out of that


Gender identity happens at age three. It depends on the child, but some children identify  very strongly with one gender. For example, little girls often have a 'pink' phase. From what I know, transgender people usually know something's 'different' for as long as they can remember; this girl may well just be very obvious about it. It could be the parents, but it's entirely possible it's just his DNA--and depending on Mommy's miscarriage rate and if the local power plants are following proper waste disposal laws, it might be  more likely. Prenatal development's a biatch like that.

/And about the kid having access to gender neutral facilities, you pull a non-GID kid out of a classroom at random and tell them they have to use either opposite-gender or gender-neutral bathrooms now. Let me know how the kid feels about that.
2013-02-28 02:56:43 PM
1 votes:

 trustfundStoj: Another interview


I am a mom of 4 amazing, wonderful, awesome children one planned kid and a victim of three others thanks to overzealous fertility treament (and one on the way!). Dakota is 5 1/2 years old and has Autismand I cannot cope so I had him diagnosed. Coy, Max, and Lily are 3 1/2 year old triplets. Coy is our special little neuro-typical child was pretty normal so I had to invent an issue for him. Max is also on the Autism spectrum another child I cannot cope with. Lily had a very bad brain injury as a 4 month old was dropped on her head and is about like having a 1-2 month old baby, but is so much fun (and feisty!)and my guilt raddles me to hysteria so I take it out on polite society by being a deranged LGBTQ advocate even though I'm the posterchild for white cisgender privilege. I work full time at home as make the nanny be Lily's nurse as well as being a professional LOLFacebook photographer outside the home. My husband, Jeremy, is a full time student at two colleges and should be done with school in Spring 2012bum of the highest order and is totally cashing in on my parent's trustfund. - See more at: http://visionarymom.com/an-interview-with-kathryn-mathis/#sthash.CnVi r 3cw.dpuf
2013-02-28 02:49:59 PM
1 votes:

sno man: Voiceofreason01:
David Reimer

yea, that's him... that story is sad.


Of course, there's a huge difference between raising an actual boy as a girl just because his pee-pee got cut off, and a person who is a genuine transgender. And a six-year old whose mommy needs to feel special.
2013-02-28 02:49:28 PM
1 votes:

NCg8r: Theaetetus: NCg8r: Theaetetus: NCg8r: Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.

Perhaps you should do more reading and less ranting.

I wouldn't want to miss out on another of your sanctimonious and condescending opinions masquerading as uncontested facts.

/every stinking thread with this guy....

You're still typing. You can tell because of the clicky-clicky noise. You should be reading instead. That way no one will think you're an idiot.

Its almost like you decided to prove my assertions with yet another condescending post (that neglected to address what I actually said).


Oh, you want me to "address what you actually said"? Then, yes. Someone in this thread advocated bullying. He even replied to you saying "I am." Perhaps if you weren't so infatuated with me, you'd have read that.
2013-02-28 02:46:55 PM
1 votes:
I stopped reading after "transgendered 6 year old boy"

/Good luck planet.
2013-02-28 02:34:41 PM
1 votes:

ciberido: gja: ciberido: Mager: Wow, since a six year old is fundamentally incapable of understanding gender roles, how farked up does Mom have to be in this situation. I guess she really wanted a daughter.

*points and laughs at the stupid person*


Using 'stupid' does nothing to bolster your standing or opinion.

Not really trying to.  If you're incapable of seeing how stupid Mager is without my having to explain it to you, you're stupid enough I'd rather just laugh at you, too, frankly.


Ah, the openmindedness I was chastised for not having last night!

Tell me something: where's your empathy for stupid people? You're quick to lash out at perceived slights against women and transgendered but have no inclinations against denigrating the "stupid". I'll have you know that stupid people make up 50% of the planet. You should do some research before making yourself look like a vapid twunt.
2013-02-28 02:32:52 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: NCg8r: Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.

Perhaps you should do more reading and less ranting.


So predicting rain when there are storm clouds gathering is the same thing as encouraging and celebrating the rain???
2013-02-28 02:29:41 PM
1 votes:

Rurouni: How would a 6 year old even know that they are "transgendered"?

The more likely explanation is that mommy and/or daddy wanted a daughter so they made their son into one. Little kids are incredibly impressionable...that I do know.


How would a six year old child know she was diabetic? Is China full of girls who became boys because their parents wanted a boy?
2013-02-28 02:24:49 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: NCg8r: Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.

Perhaps you should do more reading and less ranting.


I wouldn't want to miss out on another of your sanctimonious and condescending opinions masquerading as uncontested facts.

/every stinking thread with this guy....
2013-02-28 02:14:50 PM
1 votes:

RedZoneTuba: Repo Man: RedZoneTuba: I'm trying to understand..."Gender" is not an obvious physical trait, but it IS genetic and you are born with it (otherwise, a 3-6 year old could not "know" it).  The external manifestations of gender are apparently your desires and associated behaviors (how you want to dress, what you want to play with, etc.).  Putting these two things together, then, I can only conclude that gender-appropriate dress, toys, actions, etc. are all genetically determined.

But I've been also told in no uncertain terms, by many of the same women telling me the facts about what constitutes a transgendered person, that the last statement above is sexist nonsense.

My brain hurts.

This is a bit of a thorny issue for the strict social determinists. But they are a tiny minority now. Looking at cases like Jazz, and David Reimer, it isn't that being born a boy or a girl makes you want to dress a certain way or play with certain toys, but that you are aware of being male or female, and want to dress in a similar fashion to those you identify with, and engage in similar activities.

Can you expand further on "those you identify with"?  It can't be via looks because  they would look quite different from the transgendered individual.  It can't be from deep conversaions with other 3 year olds.  If it is from their dress, actions, etc. then we're back to my dilemma of saying gender-appropriate dress, actions, etc. are both genetically determined AND sexist nonsense at the same time.

You are not suggesting some extra-sensory "aura" of gender identification, are you?




In the case of Jazz (watch the documentary), she had both older brothers and sisters. It was her sisters that she chose to emulate from a very young age. What constitutes gender appropriate behavior and dress varies in cultures around the world. Cases such as Reimer's and Jazz' suggest that children innately know what they are, and are very keen to emulate the dress and behavior of the gender they identify with.
2013-02-28 02:13:13 PM
1 votes:

NCg8r: Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.


Perhaps you should do more reading and less ranting.
2013-02-28 02:10:37 PM
1 votes:
Hey guys!  What's going on in this...

media.tumblr.com
2013-02-28 02:03:43 PM
1 votes:
How would a 6 year old even know that they are "transgendered"?

The more likely explanation is that mommy and/or daddy wanted a daughter so they made their son into one. Little kids are incredibly impressionable...that I do know.
2013-02-28 01:57:46 PM
1 votes:
The haters could watch this:I Am Jazz - A Family In Transition. But they might get a glimmer of understanding, and begin to feel sympathy rather than hate - and what fun would that be?
2013-02-28 01:53:42 PM
1 votes:

gja: That is YOUR opinion and you are free and entitled to have, hold and espouse it. But that does not make it a universally accepted truth.
I stand by my statement that 6 is, generally, too you for a mature for that person to fully comprehend all the ramifications associated with life-choices of this magnitude and  scope.


So? Nobodies is going to do anything surgically irreversible for at least another ten years. If she decides in a couple of years that she's a boy after all, he can switch back. No harm done.
2013-02-28 01:49:28 PM
1 votes:

loaba: Give the world over to the children as they obviously know what's best for themselves.


Could those of you on the hating side please decide whether this is a case of a child deciding something for itself or wacky parents deciding something for it? You can't keep both arguments going at the same time, you know.
2013-02-28 01:43:21 PM
1 votes:

mwfark: However, I don't think the solution is to make ALL the girls uncomfortable by having a boy using their restroom. Because the kid is biologically a boy, whether he likes it or not.


So you tell the kids "Coy's a girl, but her bottom looks like a boy's" and the kids, having not yet developed years' worth of fears and prejudices about such things, will think about this for a moment, shrug, and get on with things which interest them more.
2013-02-28 01:37:04 PM
1 votes:
When I was 3 or 4, I told my parents I was a shark, and went around biting stuff. If only they had agreed and let me fully transform!!!

Instead they told me I was a boy. Those bastards!!

This is so stupid it is beyond belief. The fact this is even in debate at all is why we completely fail as a country, and younger generations suck. Bad, bad parents. Yes, they should drill it into the kid he is not a girl. When it is older, maybe then have a talk with it and lay out options. Tell it it can have the wang removed and be whatever it wants. I am sorry, but you can send kids to jail for picking on it all you want, but it will have a really hard time growing up and the damage will be permanent.
2013-02-28 01:35:50 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, well, you really think a six year old can resist that?Especially if "she" is anatomically different? And really, six? Six year olds don;t understand a lot of complex things.....hell, I'm not sure that I understand this "I have the wrong genitals" thing. See, I'm a woman. To clarify, I was born with a vagina, but I never much cared for dolls and such, I more cared for doing things people would consider "boy stuff". Even now, I enjoy watching hockey, I don't like chick flicks, and I'm not into makeup, Although I can and do dress nicely and like a woman when the occasion calls.I just figure I'm a woman who doesn't much like sterotypical "female" things(Who was it that decided which genders could like what?)

I've noticed that transgender people care alot more about gender than many "normal" people. There are plenty of women out there who think high heels are ridiculous, hiking and beer is awesome. There are plenty of men who love cats and musicals. There are marine females and stay at home dads. I wonder why they care so much that they're willing to take potentially dangerous hormone replacement therapies and pay someone thousands of dollars to cut their bits, or why they're so invested in other's opinion of their appearance. I watched one documentary about a male to female transgender who transitioned after (s)he had married and had a kid. (S)he broke up is marriage, ended up in the ER with blood clots, quit his high powered stereotypically male job and took a job at some non-profit for a dramatic pay cut, and paid thousands of dollars in surgery, hair removal, hormones, voice classes, etc to be a 6'1'' strange looking intermediate gender creature. At what point does your obsession about your gender become pathological?
2013-02-28 01:35:47 PM
1 votes:

gja: So, you think 6 year of age is adequate for a person to decide such matters as gender?
Even with the realization that it can be a defining choice with ramifications that can alter that persons entire life?
I would posit that 6 is a bit immature for such an issue to be concretely and permanently settled, and that by rushing the choice shows the people sanctioning such an early life-stage choice with such massive possible repercussions shows a lack of wisdom, maturity and sensitivity to the issue at hand.


You agree, therefore, that this child should not be compelled, at six, to commit to being male for ever? Because it's funny how people here seem to think that there is only one choice here. Very reminiscent of those who claim that gay people choose their sexuality but never think of themselves as having chosen straightness.
2013-02-28 01:34:37 PM
1 votes:

RedZoneTuba: I'm trying to understand..."Gender" is not an obvious physical trait, but it IS genetic and you are born with it (otherwise, a 3-6 year old could not "know" it).  The external manifestations of gender are apparently your desires and associated behaviors (how you want to dress, what you want to play with, etc.).  Putting these two things together, then, I can only conclude that gender-appropriate dress, toys, actions, etc. are all genetically determined.

But I've been also told in no uncertain terms, by many of the same women telling me the facts about what constitutes a transgendered person, that the last statement above is sexist nonsense.

My brain hurts.


This is a bit of a thorny issue for the strict social determinists. But they are a tiny minority now. Looking at cases like Jazz, and David Reimer, it isn't that being born a boy or a girl makes you want to dress a certain way or play with certain toys, but that you are aware of being male or female, and want to dress in a similar fashion to those you identify with, and engage in similar activities.
2013-02-28 01:26:01 PM
1 votes:

stiletto_the_wise: JohnnyC:
Boy (noun): a male child or young man.
Girl (noun): A female child or young woman.
He (pronoun): Used to refer to a man, boy, or male animal
She (pronoun): Used to refer to a woman, girl, or female animal

Words... they mean things.

They do not mean what you think they mean.


They mean exactly what JohnnyC thinks they mean no matter how much you want them to mean something completely different.
2013-02-28 01:18:47 PM
1 votes:

JohnnyC: I find this whole story to be strange. At what point did the little boy decide to dress and act like a little girl? Was this a choice the boy made or his parents made? Seems like something one would decide later in life after said person had finished developing (physically and mentally).


Here's a thought:  Rather than talking about how things SEEM to you, how about you spend five minutes before speaking to find out how they ACTUALLY ARE.  Then you'll sound smarter.
2013-02-28 01:15:09 PM
1 votes:
Again, the story of Jazz.

Most transgender children still live in the shadows, hiding from a world that sees them as freaks of nature. Rejected by their families, many grow up hating their bodies, and fall victim to high rates of depression, drug abuse, violence and suicide....

... On the surface, the Jennings and their four children are a typical American family. But their youngest child, Jazz, is only in kindergarten, and already she is one of the youngest known cases of an early transition from male to female.

"We'll say things like, 'You're special. God made you special.' Because there aren't very many little girls out there that have a penis," said Renee.

"Renee and I are in 100 percent agreement as to how we should raise Jazz," said Scott. "We don't encourage, we support. And we just keep listening to what she tells us."

From the moment he could speak, Jazz made it clear he wanted to wear a dress. At only 15 months, he would unsnap his onesies to make it look like a dress. When his parents praised Jazz as a "good boy," he would correct them, saying he was a good girl.

The Jennings wanted to believe it would pass. Scott said he "was in a bit of denial" about what Jazz was trying to tell them. After all, even their rowdy twin boys, who are two years older than Jazz, had painted their nails growing up. But Jazz kept gravitating to girl things, insisting that his penis was a mistake.

When Jazz was two, he asked his mother a question that left her numb and frozen. "[He] said, 'Mommy, when's the good fairy going to come with her magic wand and change, you know, my genitalia?" according to Renee....

... "We check in with her all the time," Renee said. "I tell her, I say, 'Jazz, if you ever feel like you want to dress like a boy again, cut your hair, you just let me know.' And she goes, 'Mommy, why would I want to do that?'"

While Jazz's parents now fully accept their son as their daughter, the transition has not been without considerable doubt and stress. Many parents grieve for the child that never was. "I mourn the loss of the idea of my son," Renee said. "I see pictures and the video, and that child's gone. But there's a wonderful person now that's with us."


And a follow up.

This child's parents had to deal with the fact that their little boy kept telling them that he was actually a girl. They did nothing wrong, and would have been very happy if this had only been a phase. She is growing into a young woman now, and her conviction that she is female has only gotten stronger. I suppose if this child had been parented by some of the people in this thread, they would have beaten this nonsense right out of her. It's very sad to contemplate the fate of children like this who have parents incapable of understanding what their child is going through.
2013-02-28 01:08:31 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: Thunderpipes: Hope the parents realize, he will get his ass kicked more by a bully, bullied more by a bully, teased more by a bully as a boy-chick than just a boy who is weird.

Then we should probably have a talk with that bully then, huh? It's not like this ass-kicking, bullying, teasing was done by a ghost.


Bullies exist to make kids stronger. All animals do it. There is a pecking order in life. You either man up, or you get my french fries. Animals don't like weirdness, and will kick weirdos out to protect their gene pool. Just because we can make iPhones doesn't mean we need to pretend being weird is cool. Let the kid deal with it and move on. When it is 18, it can decide if it wants its johnson removed.

At this rate, in 100 years, every single person on Earth will be retarded and transgendered.
2013-02-28 01:08:01 PM
1 votes:

orbister: FTFA: It said the district's decision "took into account not only Coy but other students in the building, their parents, and the future impact a boy with male genitals using a girls' bathroom would have as Coy grew older."

Two issues here. First of all, she's a girl with male genitals, not a boy with male genitals. Secondly, who the hell is going to see them in the girls toilet? Do they check flaps before landing?


"HE" is f farking "BOY" with male genitals. You may can shiat in a taco shell and call it a cheese burrito, but it is still shiat in a taco shell to any SANE person and they aren't eating your shiat. Holy farking cow, how stupid have we become to even utter such nonsense?
2013-02-28 01:03:01 PM
1 votes:
This kid is going to end up making a women suit out of real women.
2013-02-28 12:56:08 PM
1 votes:

doubled99: Do some more research yourself and don't just  cherry-pick whatever new study fits your already pre-conceived notions.  The  research on this issue has always been very prone to political correctness and social agenda.  It's also been incredibly flawed going back to the seventies, when it first became fashionable to posit that gender was taught by society instead of biological.


And there it is: "The research is flawed because it was corrupted by the liberals!"
2013-02-28 12:50:45 PM
1 votes:

ginandbacon: Joe Blowme: Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.

You should really get up to speed with current gender research. You look incredibly ignorant and prejudiced.


I love it. Someone, anyone disagrees with your premises and they get called stupid and bigoted. You're going to change a lot of minds with that particular methodology.
2013-02-28 12:50:15 PM
1 votes:

ginandbacon: Joe Blowme: Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.

You should really get up to speed with current gender research. You look incredibly ignorant and prejudiced.



You do realise the LITTLE BOY is 6 right? And you say i'm the ignorant one? Wow, please never have children.
You really need to get up to speed with reality.
2013-02-28 12:47:50 PM
1 votes:

gja: That is YOUR opinion and you are free and entitled to have, hold and espouse it. But that does not make it a universally accepted truth.
I stand by my statement that 6 is, generally, too you for a mature for that person to fully comprehend all the ramifications associated with life-choices of this magnitude and  scope.


People "stand by" all sorts of rubbish. There are people who "stand by" the "fact" that the earth is 6000 years old, or that it sits atop a giant turtle. What does the research say?

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Issac Asimov
2013-02-28 12:46:21 PM
1 votes:
What is wrong with these farking parents?? The kid is six farking years old! Why haven't they gotten her an operation to fix her birth defect yet? They need to whack that thing off so that she can lead a normal life, as God intended. I'm sure ,later on in life, she'll thank them for fixing the problem before she had time to fully understand it.
2013-02-28 12:38:16 PM
1 votes:
A child, at the age of 6, is whatever the hell mommy and daddy decide.
2013-02-28 12:37:32 PM
1 votes:
this is what happens when you let the kids decide
HE is trying to fit in with HIS sisters
sure he can sit and pee but if you can write your name with it you are a guy
2013-02-28 12:29:32 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Hope the parents realize, he will get his ass kicked more by a bully, bullied more by a bully, teased more by a bully

 as a boy-chick than just a boy who is weird.

Then we should probably have a talk with that bully then, huh? It's not like this ass-kicking, bullying, teasing was done by a ghost.
2013-02-28 12:26:24 PM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: The first-grader, Coy Mathis, was born male but identifies as female


And here I was thinking that surgery was required for someone to be transgender.


No. Surgery is required to be transsexual. Gender is a mental/social construct.
2013-02-28 12:25:21 PM
1 votes:

ginandbacon: JohnnyC: if your physical body is male then you're male,

Wrong.

He can never give birth, his body will never produce the same hormones, he will never have a menstruation cycle, and will never go through menopause. He very well may go through life wanting to experience life as a female, but he never really will.

And wrong again. My uterus is not what makes me female. It make me menstruate. Don't equate the two things. There are plenty of women who have had hysterectomies and their ovaries removed who are still women.

You should do some research and put some thought into this before spouting off.


Well, your uterus certainly rules out you being a man.
2013-02-28 12:23:40 PM
1 votes:

JohnnyC: if your physical body is male then you're male,


Wrong.

He can never give birth, his body will never produce the same hormones, he will never have a menstruation cycle, and will never go through menopause. He very well may go through life wanting to experience life as a female, but he never really will.

And wrong again. My uterus is not what makes me female. It make me menstruate. Don't equate the two things. There are plenty of women who have had hysterectomies and their ovaries removed who are still women.

You should do some research and put some thought into this before spouting off.
2013-02-28 12:05:15 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: starsrift: Dafuq? Six, and transgendered - really?

Dunno about the rest of you farkers, but I sure as hell didn't have a gender identity at that point in my life, one way or the other.

Yes you did, you developed it around the ages of 3-4.  Don't you remember the types of toys you enjoyed playing with and the clothes you liked wearing?  All part of your gender identity, don't you know.


Hmm, so playing with a doll, or wearing a dress makes you a chick?

That is a cultural thing you know. Other cultures dress different, doesn't make their dudes into pole goblins.

If a 16 year old young man can't make his own decisions about anything because he is a minor, allowing a 6 year old to magically turn in to a girl should be just as condemned. He is a boy.
2013-02-28 11:52:12 AM
1 votes:
Hope the parents realize, he will get his ass kicked more, bullied more, teased more as a boy-chick than just a boy who is weird.
2013-02-28 11:41:06 AM
1 votes:

ciberido: It's funny how tenaciously, even desperately, people cling to old-fashioned notions of sex and gender no matter what the science actually says.  It's like Young-Earth creationists building museums to show Jesus riding a dinosaur.


You want your boy-child to wear a dress? Okay; here's how you do it. Make dresses available to him and actively encourage him to wear them. Watch as he does what makes you happy.

It's just that simple. By the age of 6, he'll sure think he's a girl.
2013-02-28 11:40:53 AM
1 votes:

Earpj: dready zim: Elementary schools don't usually have urinals in the restrooms.


Every school I have ever been to has had urinals, even when I was six.
gja [TotalFark]
2013-02-28 11:39:23 AM
1 votes:

ciberido: Mager: Wow, since a six year old is fundamentally incapable of understanding gender roles, how farked up does Mom have to be in this situation. I guess she really wanted a daughter.

*points and laughs at the stupid person*



Using 'stupid' does nothing to bolster your standing or opinion.

So, you think 6 year of age is adequate for a person to decide such matters as gender?
Even with the realization that it can be a defining choice with ramifications that can alter that persons entire life?
I would posit that 6 is a bit immature for such an issue to be concretely and permanently settled, and that by rushing the choice shows the people sanctioning such an early life-stage choice with such massive possible repercussions shows a lack of wisdom, maturity and sensitivity to the issue at hand.
2013-02-28 11:38:21 AM
1 votes:

ciberido: loaba: orbister: ha-ha-guy: //seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles

It's not a matter of choosing a role. It's a matter of knowing who you are.


At 6, he chooses to be whatever his parents encourage him to be. 'Cause he's farking 6 already.

It's funny how tenaciously, even desperately, people cling to old-fashioned notions of sex and gender no matter what the science actually says.  It's like Young-Earth creationists building museums to show Jesus riding a dinosaur.


Know how i know you have no kids?

/and should never
PJ-
2013-02-28 11:36:16 AM
1 votes:
Any guy in this thread that is saying shared washrooms are a good thing are straight up insane.  Have you not noticed lineups for the female washrooms, pretty much anywhere?  They ALWAYS have a line, and the line moves slow as all HELL.  While the male washroom usually doesn't have a line, but if it's between periods/innings/halftime, there will be a line, but it moves quite fast.  That's exactly what I want, one big washroom that has a HUGE line that moves slow as all hell.
2013-02-28 11:34:58 AM
1 votes:

ginandbacon: This isn't a little boy. She is a little girl who happened to be born into a body with the wrong appendages.


Just seems that prior to puberty, deciding that one will act/dress/portray one's gender as the opposite of what it really is, is a really bad idea. Seems more nurture than nature to me at this point.
2013-02-28 11:28:56 AM
1 votes:
With a child so young, I think the parents tread a fine line between "understanding" and "overindulgent".
2013-02-28 11:24:31 AM
1 votes:

abfalter: Yes.  I am sure they think they are "protecting" their precious little snowflakes ego all while setting him up for a lifetime of difficulty.


Do you yearn for a return of the days when parents would whip the gay out of their kids? With the buckle end.
2013-02-28 11:24:01 AM
1 votes:
to those saying sex isnt gender: the brain is a sexually dimorphic organ. sorry but it is a fact.
2013-02-28 11:21:32 AM
1 votes:

Private_Citizen: The boy is too young to decide his bedtime, much less his sexuality.

I support the school, there is no way the little boy gets to use the little girls room - regardless of what he thinks his reasons are.


The big city closest to my suburb just passed the 'bathroom bill'.  It took exactly two days for a grown male to enter the female shower room at a local fitness club where several women were showering.  They complained, the cops showed up, apparantly they told the guy to leave the premises but could not arrest him or cite him for anything.  I'm sure the A-hol3 that walked into the shower room was trying to make a point and not just getting his jollies.

I don't think we will be going to the city as much as we used to.  Maybe I'm just too old, I'm not OK with my wife and daughter using a bathroom that a unknown male can just walk into anytime they feel like it.
2013-02-28 11:19:05 AM
1 votes:
www.whiteninjacomics.com

As the comic notes, this kid is going to get bullied. Not because he's transgender, specifically, but just because there's an obvious external difference. That's what kids do - in large part due to kids being the literal definition of immature. Likewise, I find it hard to believe that a 6 year old could have a fully-formed gender identity - of EITHER gender.

When I read the parent's claims, "she has told the world what would be obvious to anyone who spends a minute with her that she is a little girl," it set off huge warning flags. Wearing a dress, liking dolls, or pink barbie dream houses (for example) do not make you 'female'. These are culture-specific external customs that do not in any real way define gender - they are learned classifications. In fact, if you were to take the unofficial transgender credo to heart, it's what's inside the head that matters, and that's not something that can be easily or accurately expressed naturally - it'd certainly take more than a minute to figure out what's really going on in someone's head.

On the other hand, an individual could exuberantly and artificially act it out. They could deliberately use all the learned cultural trends that indicate 'female', and be overly blatant in their display. The issue with this though is that it IS just an act. I mean, I always wanted to be a dinosaur when I was little, I just happened to be born in a human body. Anyone who spent a minute with me would have thought not that I WAS a dinosaur, but rather that I wanted people to think I was. Whether or not I really thought I was one, whether my brain ~really~ worked that way, and whether I was resolute in my feelings was not something that could be expressed easily through this acting out. ... and the next week I wanted to be a jet fighter pilot anyway.

Kids are really good at playing pretend, without necessarily understanding all the personal and social ramifications of what they're pretending to be.

So;
1 - The kid is too immature to have made such an expert evaluation of his/her sense of self which such significant life-affecting ramifications.
2 - I think this is some sort of acting, even if it coincidentally does turn out to match his/her gender identity later in life.
3 - As long as we live in a society that sees the physical differences between men and women as sexual and/or vulgar - or important outside of the shape of clothes and such - then there will be a need demanded by society to segregate based on actual, physical appearance. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

second to last;
Check out this video of iO Tllet Wright explaining in part her transition from female to male back to female, along with gay, bi, and eventually arriving at 'I don't know, it doesn't matter, and binary choices are obviously wrong.' It might make you question whether or not single-gender classifications are even a valid way to identify someone.

... and last: Is it just me, or do we put WAAAAY too much focus on gender issues? To much of our concept of self wrapped up in it? In such a brittle shell that the beliefs of strangers affect our personal values? Is it just a sex-as-intercourse bias that wraps around all this? Aren't they just stupid and arbitrary divisions as unrepresentative of the person as the color of their skin when it comes to sense of self worth?

/ no homo
2013-02-28 11:18:53 AM
1 votes:

Marine1: Dude... it's a six-year-old. That could change again after puberty; who knows.


Who knows?  Gosh, that's a puzzler.  Maybe you should search Google or something on the off chance somebody's studied that question already.
2013-02-28 11:15:36 AM
1 votes:
:::Sigh::: OK, people. Due to the overwhelmingmajority of morons in our society, today, bathrooms will no longer be labled as men's / women's or boys / girls. From now on they will be labled as Penises / Vaginas. Hermaphrodites will have their choice to use either. So, whether it's the genitalia you were born with, or  aquired through surgery, what's between your legs will decide which restroom you use. That is all. Carry on.
2013-02-28 11:00:02 AM
1 votes:

ck1938: Nurglitch: What if, and I'm just throwing this out there, that maybe the kid is transgendered, allowing her to sit down to pee in the privacy of the stalls in the girls washroom isn't a bad thing, and maybe what's called for is a little help and understanding for those of us that aren't standard model.

Enabling deranged parents abuse of their children isn't helping.


Sorry, I missed the part in the article where the parents had the child taken away because they were abusing her.
2013-02-28 10:59:31 AM
1 votes:
"I used to like ponies but my daddy beat that out of me and I turned out fine" says way more about the armchair psychologist and how many beers he's had by this hour than the gender identity of a child he's never met and whether or not we'll all fit in that handbasket.

Oh but I'm sure Fark Commenter Man is just preparing to go out and rescue all those kittens from trees and then balance the budget.
2013-02-28 10:57:09 AM
1 votes:

Stinkyy: Another poster: "Kid wants to wear a dress? Why should the school stand in her way?  It's because we have norms, you stupid G.D.'d retard.  You don't get to pick and choose what laws we have here, do you?


I don't get to choose the laws there, but I do get to choose the laws here. Democracy, don't you just love it?

Whether a child wants to wear a dress or trousers, or identify as a boy or a girl is of no interest to me, and should be of no interest to the school. Schools are there to educate, not to enforce neanderthal social norms.
2013-02-28 10:55:25 AM
1 votes:

ginandbacon: No, I mean her. SHE identifies as female.


Well his parents certainly choose to identify him that way. All the kid knows is that whatever he's doing, its making mom and dad happy. He probably loves the hell out of that.

/ too bad mom and dad are bat-shiate crazy.

// kids at that age generally just want to be happy and to be encouraged by their parents. They're also extremely malleable.
2013-02-28 10:52:39 AM
1 votes:

Private_Citizen: The boy is too young to decide his bedtime, much less his sexuality.


Why do you think this has anything to do with sexuality?
2013-02-28 10:52:35 AM
1 votes:

Nurglitch: What if, and I'm just throwing this out there, that maybe the kid is transgendered, allowing her to sit down to pee in the privacy of the stalls in the girls washroom isn't a bad thing, and maybe what's called for is a little help and understanding for those of us that aren't standard model.


Enabling deranged parents abuse of their children isn't helping.
2013-02-28 10:52:25 AM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: The first-grader, Coy Mathis, was born male but identifies as female


And here I was thinking that surgery was required for someone to be transgender.


This.

Has the kid got a pecker? Then the kid uses the boy's room. End of story.
2013-02-28 10:51:52 AM
1 votes:

The_Sponge: I swear....some of you are so "open-mind", your brains are leaking out.


That joke is scratched into the walls of the Lascaux Caves.

And right below it is a crack about having head that one from Lucy.
2013-02-28 10:50:55 AM
1 votes:
I really wanted to be Spiderman when I was 6.

/I know... totally different
//if I had yo guess, I'd say Mom is off-the-charts insane
2013-02-28 10:50:27 AM
1 votes:
The boy is too young to decide his bedtime, much less his sexuality.

I support the school, there is no way the little boy gets to use the little girls room - regardless of what he thinks his reasons are.
2013-02-28 10:48:22 AM
1 votes:

loaba: ginandbacon: Wow. Fark has been really a quite nasty place to be the last few days. At least Coy has parents who listen to her and stand up for her.

If by her you mean him, then yeah, he's the luckiest kid on the planet...


No, I mean her. SHE identifies as female.
2013-02-28 10:47:47 AM
1 votes:
What if, and I'm just throwing this out there, that maybe the kid is transgendered, allowing her to sit down to pee in the privacy of the stalls in the girls washroom isn't a bad thing, and maybe what's called for is a little help and understanding for those of us that aren't standard model.
2013-02-28 10:46:21 AM
1 votes:

starsrift: Dunno about the rest of you farkers, but I sure as hell didn't have a gender identity at that point in my life, one way or the other.


Really? You wore dresses and trousers more-or-less equally, played with dolls and footballs more or less equally, wore your hair cut short and in bunches more-or-less equally?
2013-02-28 10:45:40 AM
1 votes:

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Kiwimann: Yay, another transgender thread.  Make with all your vitriol.  I'll be elsewhere.

I don't think there is any vitriol. Just many of us questioning if a 6 year old child is capable of making a major gender identifying decision.


Since no one is suggesting surgery for the kid, I'm not sure that this is a "major" decision.
2013-02-28 10:44:06 AM
1 votes:

Kann: I am fully in support of LGBT rights, but in this case a six year old does not have a clear enough understanding of him/herself to be making these decisions.

I have to agree with earlier posters in that the mother here is way screwed up.

tfa says the kid prefers pink... cool nothing wrong with that, he likes girl toys fine... but in no way does he need to be using the girls restroom at age 6 in an elementary school...

These parents are as bad as pageant parents in projecting their own screwed up psych on the kids


I have to agree, six years-old seems way too damn young to be struggling with gender issues.

Something else is going on in that house.
2013-02-28 10:41:25 AM
1 votes:

Ned Stark: Good thing its a pretty well understood mental disorder diagnosed by mental health professionals.


Actually, it's not.

[the more you know.jpg]
2013-02-28 10:41:23 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: Name the mental illness...

1. unwarranted sense of importance and paranoia
2. Lack of empathy for others
3. delusions and a skewed sense of reality
4. strange behavior and illogical behavior


Oh, I know this one: "Projection."
2013-02-28 10:41:01 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: the fact is the bathrooms are based on sex. Males have a male room, females a female room.


Out of curiosity, what do you do in your house? Do you segregate the bathrooms there?
2013-02-28 10:39:29 AM
1 votes:
Welcome Kathryn!  First off, why don't you tell us a little about you and your family.I am a mom of 4 amazing, wonderful, awesome children (and one on the way!).  Dakota is 5 1/2 years old and has Autism. Coy, Max, and Lily are 3 1/2 year old triplets. Coy is our special little neuro-typical child. Max is also on the Autism spectrum. Lily had a very bad brain injury as a 4 month old and is about like having a 1-2 month old baby, but is so much fun (and feisty!).  I work full time at home as Lily's nurse as well as being a professional photographer outside the home.  My husband, Jeremy, is a full time student at two colleges and should be done with school in Spring 2012.
- See more at: http://visionarymom.com/an-interview-with-kathryn-mathis/#sthash.bMgs X miw.dpuf Check out this interview with the mom (who's pretty hot). Looks like they're got a pretty farked up family all the way around:

http://visionarymom.com/an-interview-with-kathryn-mathis/
2013-02-28 10:38:56 AM
1 votes:

sno man: ha-ha-guy: Transgendered at six?  What did the parents catch the kid playing dressup in his sister's clothes one day and just go full retard or something?  Seems way to early to make the call on the kid and more like creepy parents grooming the kid to be a transgender or something that ends up on an extra farked up episode of Law and Order.

/also considering the kid has access to gender neutral facilities, not seeing the problem
//seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles and all that at 6 to make a decision
/I think thought girls were gross and had cooties back then, yet I grew out of that

There is a story of a kid (I think) from Saskatchewan that had a botched circumcision back in the late 60's.  Bad enough that they weren't able to save what was left and the decision was made that the kid would surgically become a girl, and simply raised that way.  So from about 6 months or so the kid was a girl.  Around the time the kid was 5 (he) tore off his dress, destroyed all his dolls and stole his brothers toy cars. He was pretty messed up and eventually took his own life.  My point was just because you look like a thing doesn't make you that thing.  And kids know, they may not have enough experience or context to express it all that well, but they know.


He also got subjected to what amounts to abuse by the doctor concerned, on a regular basis. He did not have a "normal" girl's life. So it is hard to draw firm conclusions just from that one case, although it is sad.
2013-02-28 10:38:43 AM
1 votes:
Dafuq? Six, and transgendered - really?

Dunno about the rest of you farkers, but I sure as hell didn't have a gender identity at that point in my life, one way or the other.
2013-02-28 10:38:16 AM
1 votes:

sno man: There is a story of a kid (I think) from Saskatchewan that had a botched circumcision back in the late 60's. Bad enough that they weren't able to save what was left and the decision was made that the kid would surgically become a girl, and simply raised that way. So from about 6 months or so the kid was a girl. Around the time the kid was 5 (he) tore off his dress, destroyed all his dolls and stole his brothers toy cars. He was pretty messed up and eventually took his own life. My point was just because you look like a thing doesn't make you that thing. And kids know, they may not have enough experience or context to express it all that well, but they know.


This is a completely unrelated example though.
Rheimer never showed any psychological signs of being female.  He was born male, his body was male, and his mind was male, he just had an accident. The fact that it was impossible for him to live as a girl is evidence in support of the idea that gender is ingrained, and that the people who exhibit signs of being trans at an early age cannot live in their genetic-gender.
2013-02-28 10:37:11 AM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: atomicmask: How about the treatment of "I-don't-want-my-6-year-old-daughter-in-the-toilet-with-a-6-year-old-b oy-in-drag-ospy"

Why not? I mean, unless you're suggesting that 6 year olds are going to be having sex, in which case...
 ಠ_ಠ
6 year olds, dude.


How about I don't want my child seeing ANY Penis' that age unless they own one, period. I do not care what little snowflake thinks it is or is not, the fact is the bathrooms are based on sex. Males have a male room, females a female room. If the asstard parents decide they wanted a girl and then instead of trying for one went and dressed the boy up like a girl, that is between them and the child, however, the rest of the world does not need to conform to their twisted views.
2013-02-28 10:36:32 AM
1 votes:

ginandbacon: Wow. Fark has been really a quite nasty place to be the last few days. At least Coy has parents who listen to her and stand up for her.


If by her you mean him, then yeah, he's the luckiest kid on the planet...
2013-02-28 10:33:33 AM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: However starting at age 6 when the kid still has a couple unknown body chemistry changes in their future seems a bit premature to me.


I agree with that completely. The decision should be delayed as much as possible. All I'm saying is that puberty carries with it a certain amount of "locking in" that's hard to change once committed. Delaying as long as possible is responsible, but at age 11-12-13 or so, there is some sense in saying that you gotta commit one way or the other.
2013-02-28 10:31:25 AM
1 votes:
Just want to point out that girls do more than just pee in the girls' room. They get changed into their gym clothes there as well. I suspect that the school's sudden change in attitude was brought about by an incident of some kind (probably a complaint from one or more of the girls) and that it either hasn't been passed on to the parents or not mentioned in the article. It's possible to think of a few scenarios where the school decided it was better simply to ask him to use the gender-neutral toilets.

I do think it's fairly obvious from the parents' reaction that they have some major issues. They are NOT being neutral about it, they are actually pushing the agenda of him being "really" a girl. Having him using the girls room is just as likely to single him out for bullying as using the gender neutral one. Don't you realise girls are actually terrible bullies? Maybe not so much at 6, but in another couple of years they certainly will be capable of making his life hell - and of being very uncomfortable changing around him.
2013-02-28 10:30:29 AM
1 votes:
Remember when you were 5, 6?

Did you play "Show me yours, I'll show you mine"?

Yeah, well, you really think a six year old can resist that?Especially if "she" is anatomically different? And really, six? Six year olds don;t understand a lot of complex things.....hell, I'm not sure that I understand this "I have the wrong genitals" thing. See, I'm a woman. To clarify, I was born with a vagina, but I never much cared for dolls and such, I more cared for doing things people would consider "boy stuff". Even now, I enjoy watching hockey, I don't like chick flicks, and I'm not into makeup, Although I can and do dress nicely and like a woman when the occasion calls.I just figure I'm a woman who doesn't much like sterotypical "female" things(Who was it that decided which genders could like what?)
2013-02-28 10:27:34 AM
1 votes:

tjsands1118: call me ignorant, but I didn't think one could have a sexual idenity until they were old enough to get a boner/wet.  I mean maybe the kid is just a effeminate guy who will have an interest in girls as he gets older, or maybe he's just gay, but I just don't get the whole he's a transgender at 6.


This has nothing whatsoever to do with sexuality.
2013-02-28 10:26:46 AM
1 votes:

Mager: Wow, since a six year old is fundamentally incapable of understanding gender roles, how farked up does Mom have to be in this situation. I guess she really wanted a daughter.


this.  came here to say the same thing, already done by the 5th post.
2013-02-28 10:25:58 AM
1 votes:
It's amazing how many Farkers have the ability to diagnose mental illness in a person they've never met via a single news article. Shiat, where were you guys when Bill Frist was diagnosing Terry Schiavo?
2013-02-28 10:24:51 AM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: I don't see why it's an issue. Just get rid of the group pissing trough in the boy's bathroom and let everyone use a toilet stall with a door. Frankly, it'd be more sanitary anyway, and then it wouldn't matter what parts you have.


What the hell bass-ackwards school did you go to? Wall urinals, man. They're, like, typical and stuff.
2013-02-28 10:24:25 AM
1 votes:
I have no issue with transsexuals

but this really becoming a tyranny of the minority situation

Use the wrong pronoun and your nailed to the cross, try to draw lines based on simple biological systems, nailed to the cross

how about, can you pee standing up, go in this room. If not, you go to this room.....
2013-02-28 10:22:45 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: So when this "girl" hits puberty and decides he's a guy after all, what's mom going to do then?


Perhaps "Be tolerant, loving, and accepting, just as she was when the kid was six"?
2013-02-28 10:22:04 AM
1 votes:
Yay, another transgender thread.  Make with all your vitriol.  I'll be elsewhere.
2013-02-28 10:20:19 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: So when this "girl" hits puberty and decides he's a guy after all, what's mom going to do then?


There's zero-chance of that shiate happening. They'll beat* that crap right out of him, err I mean her.

/ beat = total mind-farking in this case.
2013-02-28 10:19:26 AM
1 votes:

sudo give me more cowbell: But 6 is kinda young. A responsible parent ought to be delaying that kind of thing at that point. When they get to 11 or 12, and puberty is looming on the horizon and nature is gonna start making decisions one way or the other, then ok, if they're sure about it, then let the kid transition. But at 6, they should be keeping their options open and keeping things as neutral as possible.


Even if the parents could delay things, what they are asking for does seem to be keeping things neutral. Saying "if you feel like being a boy you can use the boys' toilets with all the other boys and if you feel like being a girl you can use the special gender neutral toilets along with the other sick freaks" is not keeping things neutral; it's heavily weighing the scales in one direction.

Kid wants to wear a dress and be treated as a girl. Can't see that it's any of the school's business to stand in her way.
2013-02-28 10:17:28 AM
1 votes:
So when this "girl" hits puberty and decides he's a guy after all, what's mom going to do then?
2013-02-28 10:16:39 AM
1 votes:
www.cbc.ca
I say, Mrs. Crabtree - I have to sh*t like a pampered race-horse.
Allow me the use of the ladies powder room as I'm in denial of this dastardly penis I'm sporting!
2013-02-28 10:16:33 AM
1 votes:

Kann: tfa says the kid prefers pink... cool nothing wrong with that, he likes girl toys fine... but in no way does he need to be using the girls restroom at age 6 in an elementary school...


Exactly buy the kid the toys he wants, but hold off on making the final call until he makes it through puberty.  Let the kid explore and once the body chemistry has settled down figure it all out.  in the men time just tell him he uses the room based on physical equipment.  For the kid to be so settled down instead of in a more exploratory stage, there has to be massive parental pressure here.
2013-02-28 10:16:19 AM
1 votes:

DaWormyPimpsta: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 320x256]


Your face palm falls short, as do all others in existence.  No face palm of sufficient magnitude exists in the known 'verse.
2013-02-28 10:13:59 AM
1 votes:

Kommissar: orbister: Two issues here. First of all, she's a girl with male genitals,

On issue here: Grow a brain.


Might I respectfully suggest that you do a little bit of reading on child development before saying anything quite so daft?
2013-02-28 10:12:34 AM
1 votes:
*chuckle*
2013-02-28 10:11:17 AM
1 votes:
1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-02-28 10:09:17 AM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: //seriously though, there is no way the kid has a full enough understanding of gender roles


It's not a matter of choosing a role. It's a matter of knowing who you are.
2013-02-28 10:07:41 AM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: The first-grader, Coy Mathis, was born male but identifies as female


And here I was thinking that surgery was required for someone to be transgender.


That's transsexual. There is a difference.

Gender = Identity
Sex = body parts
2013-02-28 10:06:13 AM
1 votes:
At this age, it's conditioning more than nature.
2013-02-28 10:03:18 AM
1 votes:
So is he/she a girl/boy or not? Seems no one can make up their minds here
2013-02-28 10:03:17 AM
1 votes:
I saw that episode of Shameless.
 
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