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(Canoe)   School authorities say that transgendered six-year old is no longer allowed to use the girl's room at the school. Wow, dick move   (cnews.canoe.ca) divider line 577
    More: Stupid, public accommodations, Civil Rights Commission, Human Rights Act, elementary schools, male genitalia  
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7308 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2013 at 10:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-28 01:28:05 PM  

Repo Man: Again, the story of Jazz.


Okay, lemme get this straight... At the age of 2, the kid was using the word 'genitalia', in a sentence, properly no less? at just over 1 year of age, the child was correcting the parents, that he was a girl and not a boy?

Wow...
 
2013-02-28 01:28:12 PM  

dready zim: You can now carry on with the mouth frothing.


That's some funny Freudian projection right there.

I can't help but wonder how many keyboards you've broken in this thread already from anger.
 
2013-02-28 01:31:14 PM  
The kid is a sell-out to the societal concept of gender. Wearing a dress!
 
2013-02-28 01:34:37 PM  

RedZoneTuba: I'm trying to understand..."Gender" is not an obvious physical trait, but it IS genetic and you are born with it (otherwise, a 3-6 year old could not "know" it).  The external manifestations of gender are apparently your desires and associated behaviors (how you want to dress, what you want to play with, etc.).  Putting these two things together, then, I can only conclude that gender-appropriate dress, toys, actions, etc. are all genetically determined.

But I've been also told in no uncertain terms, by many of the same women telling me the facts about what constitutes a transgendered person, that the last statement above is sexist nonsense.

My brain hurts.


This is a bit of a thorny issue for the strict social determinists. But they are a tiny minority now. Looking at cases like Jazz, and David Reimer, it isn't that being born a boy or a girl makes you want to dress a certain way or play with certain toys, but that you are aware of being male or female, and want to dress in a similar fashion to those you identify with, and engage in similar activities.
 
2013-02-28 01:34:50 PM  

loaba: Repo Man: Again, the story of Jazz.

Okay, lemme get this straight... At the age of 2, the kid was using the word 'genitalia', in a sentence, properly no less? at just over 1 year of age, the child was correcting the parents, that he was a girl and not a boy?

Wow...


That and your post made me think of this -  http://www.hulu.com/watch/325378
 
2013-02-28 01:35:47 PM  

gja: So, you think 6 year of age is adequate for a person to decide such matters as gender?
Even with the realization that it can be a defining choice with ramifications that can alter that persons entire life?
I would posit that 6 is a bit immature for such an issue to be concretely and permanently settled, and that by rushing the choice shows the people sanctioning such an early life-stage choice with such massive possible repercussions shows a lack of wisdom, maturity and sensitivity to the issue at hand.


You agree, therefore, that this child should not be compelled, at six, to commit to being male for ever? Because it's funny how people here seem to think that there is only one choice here. Very reminiscent of those who claim that gay people choose their sexuality but never think of themselves as having chosen straightness.
 
2013-02-28 01:35:50 PM  
Yeah, well, you really think a six year old can resist that?Especially if "she" is anatomically different? And really, six? Six year olds don;t understand a lot of complex things.....hell, I'm not sure that I understand this "I have the wrong genitals" thing. See, I'm a woman. To clarify, I was born with a vagina, but I never much cared for dolls and such, I more cared for doing things people would consider "boy stuff". Even now, I enjoy watching hockey, I don't like chick flicks, and I'm not into makeup, Although I can and do dress nicely and like a woman when the occasion calls.I just figure I'm a woman who doesn't much like sterotypical "female" things(Who was it that decided which genders could like what?)

I've noticed that transgender people care alot more about gender than many "normal" people. There are plenty of women out there who think high heels are ridiculous, hiking and beer is awesome. There are plenty of men who love cats and musicals. There are marine females and stay at home dads. I wonder why they care so much that they're willing to take potentially dangerous hormone replacement therapies and pay someone thousands of dollars to cut their bits, or why they're so invested in other's opinion of their appearance. I watched one documentary about a male to female transgender who transitioned after (s)he had married and had a kid. (S)he broke up is marriage, ended up in the ER with blood clots, quit his high powered stereotypically male job and took a job at some non-profit for a dramatic pay cut, and paid thousands of dollars in surgery, hair removal, hormones, voice classes, etc to be a 6'1'' strange looking intermediate gender creature. At what point does your obsession about your gender become pathological?
 
2013-02-28 01:37:04 PM  
When I was 3 or 4, I told my parents I was a shark, and went around biting stuff. If only they had agreed and let me fully transform!!!

Instead they told me I was a boy. Those bastards!!

This is so stupid it is beyond belief. The fact this is even in debate at all is why we completely fail as a country, and younger generations suck. Bad, bad parents. Yes, they should drill it into the kid he is not a girl. When it is older, maybe then have a talk with it and lay out options. Tell it it can have the wang removed and be whatever it wants. I am sorry, but you can send kids to jail for picking on it all you want, but it will have a really hard time growing up and the damage will be permanent.
 
2013-02-28 01:37:35 PM  

loaba: It's just that simple. By the age of 6, he'll sure think he's a girl boy who wears dresses..


Fixed that for you, unless you think every female toddler dressed in trousers gets to five thinking they're male.
 
2013-02-28 01:38:04 PM  

Oerath: Englebert Slaptyback: The first-grader, Coy Mathis, was born male but identifies as female


And here I was thinking that surgery was required for someone to be transgender.

No. Surgery is required to be transsexual. Gender is a mental/social construct.


Surgery isn't required for anything.
 
2013-02-28 01:38:52 PM  

Mager: Wow, since a six year old is fundamentally incapable of understanding gender roles, how farked up does Mom have to be in this situation. I guess she really wanted a daughter.


This
 
2013-02-28 01:43:21 PM  

mwfark: However, I don't think the solution is to make ALL the girls uncomfortable by having a boy using their restroom. Because the kid is biologically a boy, whether he likes it or not.


So you tell the kids "Coy's a girl, but her bottom looks like a boy's" and the kids, having not yet developed years' worth of fears and prejudices about such things, will think about this for a moment, shrug, and get on with things which interest them more.
 
2013-02-28 01:47:12 PM  

JohnnyC: The way I see it, right now the kid is pretending to be a girl. For me it is very simple, if your physical body is male then you're male, if your physical body is female, then it is female.


All that says is that you have simplistic and uniformed views. See also: "For me it is very simple, the earth was created in 4004BC"
 
2013-02-28 01:47:27 PM  

xcv: Sounds like your father sounds had a glimmer of the right idea but the wrong approach, I doubt he was professional about it. One of the world's leading experts on transgenderism has successfully treated hundreds of young boys that believe they are girls.

It's great that the parents are aware of their son's issues,  6 years old is an ideal age to address the matter, but a lot depends on the parents being positive influences, not fathers trying to get their sons to 'man up'  through bullying or attention seekers like the parents in the article.


I could write a book about my experiences with my father... I consider myself a survivor of his abuse. Physical, sexual and emotional. However, given that, I can assure you I would be in the 10% of children that Zucker's therapy would not work for. Also, I wonder if you went back and kept following the other 90% would they be happy with who they are, or would they have just learned to repress how they really feel about themselves?

It took me a long time, but eventually I realized the side of me I had repressed. Now I know who and what I am, the problem I am facing is giving up the safety of the persona I was forced to create for the uncertainty of transitioning. It seems society is becoming more accepting, however, reading stories of trans-people who are abused and even murdered really causes emotional conflict for me.

I guess I don't really see how reparative therapy would truly work for trans-people. At one point it was used to try to "cure" gay people, without success, why would it work for trans-people any better?
 
2013-02-28 01:49:28 PM  

loaba: Give the world over to the children as they obviously know what's best for themselves.


Could those of you on the hating side please decide whether this is a case of a child deciding something for itself or wacky parents deciding something for it? You can't keep both arguments going at the same time, you know.
 
2013-02-28 01:52:01 PM  

Joe Blowme: Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.


Biology is what determines how you FEEL about it. Thanks for playing. Give him a big hand, folks.
 
2013-02-28 01:53:29 PM  

Theaetetus: quietwalker: As the comic notes, this kid is going to get bullied.

This may be a suggestion completely out of left field, but how about we try stopping the bully, rather than forcing the victim to conform?

Consider, rather than using the passive voice "the kid is going to get bullied," we could use the active voice "the bully will harass the kid," which focuses on the real problem - the actor.


Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.
 
2013-02-28 01:53:42 PM  

gja: That is YOUR opinion and you are free and entitled to have, hold and espouse it. But that does not make it a universally accepted truth.
I stand by my statement that 6 is, generally, too you for a mature for that person to fully comprehend all the ramifications associated with life-choices of this magnitude and  scope.


So? Nobodies is going to do anything surgically irreversible for at least another ten years. If she decides in a couple of years that she's a boy after all, he can switch back. No harm done.
 
2013-02-28 01:56:15 PM  

orbister: gja: That is YOUR opinion and you are free and entitled to have, hold and espouse it. But that does not make it a universally accepted truth.
I stand by my statement that 6 is, generally, too you for a mature for that person to fully comprehend all the ramifications associated with life-choices of this magnitude and  scope.

So? Nobodies is going to do anything surgically irreversible for at least another ten years. If she decides in a couple of years that she's a boy after all, he can switch back. No harm done.


Damn nobodies need to get off their collective asses stat.
 
2013-02-28 01:57:46 PM  
The haters could watch this:I Am Jazz - A Family In Transition. But they might get a glimmer of understanding, and begin to feel sympathy rather than hate - and what fun would that be?
 
2013-02-28 01:58:04 PM  

doubled99: It was refuted by the the actual subject, who, after years of confusion, anger and a suicide attempt, changed his identity back to male, married a woman, and continues to live this way killed himself.


That's some mighty fine background research, Lou.
 
2013-02-28 01:59:57 PM  

Eidola: Now I know who and what I am, the problem I am facing is giving up the safety of the persona I was forced to create for the uncertainty of transitioning.


Please know that you are accepted and valued for who you are. Not how others view you, how you present yourself to us. How you define yourself. And you are helping young people with their own journeys.   It's huge for them to have models like you to follow.
 
2013-02-28 02:01:47 PM  
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-02-28 02:03:43 PM  
How would a 6 year old even know that they are "transgendered"?

The more likely explanation is that mommy and/or daddy wanted a daughter so they made their son into one. Little kids are incredibly impressionable...that I do know.
 
2013-02-28 02:07:04 PM  

Repo Man: RedZoneTuba: I'm trying to understand..."Gender" is not an obvious physical trait, but it IS genetic and you are born with it (otherwise, a 3-6 year old could not "know" it).  The external manifestations of gender are apparently your desires and associated behaviors (how you want to dress, what you want to play with, etc.).  Putting these two things together, then, I can only conclude that gender-appropriate dress, toys, actions, etc. are all genetically determined.

But I've been also told in no uncertain terms, by many of the same women telling me the facts about what constitutes a transgendered person, that the last statement above is sexist nonsense.

My brain hurts.

This is a bit of a thorny issue for the strict social determinists. But they are a tiny minority now. Looking at cases like Jazz, and David Reimer, it isn't that being born a boy or a girl makes you want to dress a certain way or play with certain toys, but that you are aware of being male or female, and want to dress in a similar fashion to those you identify with, and engage in similar activities.


Can you expand further on "those you identify with"?  It can't be via looks because  they would look quite different from the transgendered individual.  It can't be from deep conversaions with other 3 year olds.  If it is from their dress, actions, etc. then we're back to my dilemma of saying gender-appropriate dress, actions, etc. are both genetically determined AND sexist nonsense at the same time.

You are not suggesting some extra-sensory "aura" of gender identification, are you?
 
2013-02-28 02:07:51 PM  

NCg8r: Theaetetus: quietwalker: As the comic notes, this kid is going to get bullied.

This may be a suggestion completely out of left field, but how about we try stopping the bully, rather than forcing the victim to conform?

Consider, rather than using the passive voice "the kid is going to get bullied," we could use the active voice "the bully will harass the kid," which focuses on the real problem - the actor.

Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.


I am. I was bullied, I learned to attack them. It stopped. Learned valuable lessons. Kids today learn to cry, run, and seek help. Very bad lessons to teach. Yes, bullying is a good thing. It still happens even with your ignorant anti-bullying campaign, only difference is, the bullies never get their asses kicked and the kids bullied never learn to stick up for themselves.
 
2013-02-28 02:09:05 PM  

Theaetetus: Thunderpipes: Hope the parents realize, he will get his ass kicked more by a bully, bullied more by a bully, teased more by a bully as a boy-chick than just a boy who is weird.

Then we should probably have a talk with that bully then, huh? It's not like this ass-kicking, bullying, teasing was done by a ghost.


Such wisdom! Why have we not realized sooner that bullying is wrong? Someone really should have said something sooner.

Meanwhile, I will be over there telling drug dealers that their product is illegal AND harmful to their customers.
 
2013-02-28 02:10:37 PM  
Hey guys!  What's going on in this...

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-28 02:11:39 PM  

ginandbacon: Eidola: Now I know who and what I am, the problem I am facing is giving up the safety of the persona I was forced to create for the uncertainty of transitioning.

Please know that you are accepted and valued for who you are. Not how others view you, how you present yourself to us. How you define yourself. And you are helping young people with their own journeys.   It's huge for them to have models like you to follow.


Thank you! :o)

The one thing I am very thankful for is my partner, she accepts me for who I am, and tends to get upset with people who do not... which is a huge support for me.
 
2013-02-28 02:11:50 PM  

Thunderpipes: I am. I was bullied, I learned to attack them. It stopped. Learned valuable lessons. Kids today learn to cry, run, and seek help. Very bad lessons to teach. Yes, bullying is a good thing. It still happens even with your ignorant anti-bullying campaign, only difference is, the bullies never get their asses kicked and the kids bullied never learn to stick up for themselves.


Yep.  Well put.
 
2013-02-28 02:13:13 PM  

NCg8r: Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.


Perhaps you should do more reading and less ranting.
 
PJ-
2013-02-28 02:13:30 PM  

orbister: gja: That is YOUR opinion and you are free and entitled to have, hold and espouse it. But that does not make it a universally accepted truth.
I stand by my statement that 6 is, generally, too you for a mature for that person to fully comprehend all the ramifications associated with life-choices of this magnitude and  scope.

So? Nobodies is going to do anything surgically irreversible for at least another ten years. If she decides in a couple of years that she's a boy after all, he can switch back. No harm done.


Well, no harm except for all of the kids around this child who decide to pick on him for being a 'weirdo'.  Don't get me wrong, this kid shouldn't have to go through it, but fact of the matter, it WILL happen.  Kids don't have that buffer to stop them from saying something incredibly mean, so they will let this kid know how weird they think he is, and then exclude him from everything.

What happens if this kid, who still goes around pretending she is a girl, gets a boyfriend?  Hasn't had the operation yet, so how do you explain MR. KANNISH!?!?  Quicky made ex-boyfriend goes around school telling everybody.  Well, time to change schools, but at least there is no harm done right?

This whole pampering every kids dream is doing more harm than good.  Yes, they will be sad that all their hopes and dreams aren't everything they thought, but it's going to happen anyway.  Either it's early on, therefore having more time accepting it, or coming out of University only to find out that job they were going to get doesn't exist, and they are stuck under a pile of debt.  These kids who say 'well, i'm a girl now' doesn't seem like a bad idea to the kid, that's because mommy and daddy say it's ok, which makes sense, it should be ok for someone to make this decision.  Problem is, everybody else around them HAS to accept it, if they don't, they are the ones in the wrong.  So what you are telling these kids is that they have to accept everything, even if it means everybody else around you doesn't have to accept what they believe in.  So kid who doesn't accept that one of his classmates is a girl, but is actually a boy, but dresses like a girl, has to accept that this kid is going to act that way, but that kid who is acting 'strangely' doesn't have to accept the fact that he is uncomfortable around her.  So then that kid suddenly realizes that if you want people around you to accept your feelings and such, you have to do something out of this world, like say, bully the kid who is acting strangely.  Then the kid who wants to be a girl suddenly has to realize that people around her won't always be comfortable with her decision of being a girl, so there will be times that she has to conceal that fact.  Well, thats when special interest groups show up and start saying how unacceptable it is that someone is uncomfortable with such things, and said bully is suddenly ostracized, and turned into a little monster, all because he didn't fully understand what was going on.

You know what that leads to?  That's right, a psychopath who shoots up a school.

That's how it's done.
 
2013-02-28 02:14:50 PM  

RedZoneTuba: Repo Man: RedZoneTuba: I'm trying to understand..."Gender" is not an obvious physical trait, but it IS genetic and you are born with it (otherwise, a 3-6 year old could not "know" it).  The external manifestations of gender are apparently your desires and associated behaviors (how you want to dress, what you want to play with, etc.).  Putting these two things together, then, I can only conclude that gender-appropriate dress, toys, actions, etc. are all genetically determined.

But I've been also told in no uncertain terms, by many of the same women telling me the facts about what constitutes a transgendered person, that the last statement above is sexist nonsense.

My brain hurts.

This is a bit of a thorny issue for the strict social determinists. But they are a tiny minority now. Looking at cases like Jazz, and David Reimer, it isn't that being born a boy or a girl makes you want to dress a certain way or play with certain toys, but that you are aware of being male or female, and want to dress in a similar fashion to those you identify with, and engage in similar activities.

Can you expand further on "those you identify with"?  It can't be via looks because  they would look quite different from the transgendered individual.  It can't be from deep conversaions with other 3 year olds.  If it is from their dress, actions, etc. then we're back to my dilemma of saying gender-appropriate dress, actions, etc. are both genetically determined AND sexist nonsense at the same time.

You are not suggesting some extra-sensory "aura" of gender identification, are you?




In the case of Jazz (watch the documentary), she had both older brothers and sisters. It was her sisters that she chose to emulate from a very young age. What constitutes gender appropriate behavior and dress varies in cultures around the world. Cases such as Reimer's and Jazz' suggest that children innately know what they are, and are very keen to emulate the dress and behavior of the gender they identify with.
 
2013-02-28 02:16:32 PM  

orbister: loaba: Give the world over to the children as they obviously know what's best for themselves.

Could those of you on the hating side please decide whether this is a case of a child deciding something for itself or wacky parents deciding something for it? You can't keep both arguments going at the same time, you know.


That's what you're espousing, Orbister. This coy child has discovered for himself that he is a girl. His parents couldn't have fed that to him, he came upon the fact on his own. you've said time and again that by age 3-4, children determine their gender identity.

Well okay then, the children clearly don't need their parents.

In real life, kids do need their parents. When boys play with dolls and wear dresses, it up to their parents to let them explore and have fun with it. That doesn't mean that the parents need to push the child to declare themselves as something opposite of what they are.  If left to own devices, the child might very well grow out of this "girl" phase, or not. Regardless, no one needs to push their agenda on him.

He's a boy who dresses like a girl and calls himself "she". Fine, he still needs to empty his bladder, via his penis, in the boys restroom.
 
2013-02-28 02:18:33 PM  

ginandbacon: Joe Blowme: ginandbacon: Joe Blowme: ginandbacon: Joe Blowme: Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.

You should really get up to speed with current gender research. You look incredibly ignorant and prejudiced.


You do realise the LITTLE BOY is 6 right? And you say i'm the ignorant one? Wow, please never have children.
You really need to get up to speed with reality.

That little girl is about  2-4 years past the age when children understand and can express gender. No one is talking about sexuality here. It's gender. She identifies as female. Her brain sends her signals that she is female. Her body doesn't match up to her identification. If you don't get this insanely simple concept, then yes. You are ignorant.

So you can read his mind? No you are guessing he has complete understanding according to your THEORY. HE IS A 6 YEAR OLD! If you dont get this insanely simple concept of reality, then you are ignorant and should never be allowed to raise a child.

I think it's very telling that you feel the need to comment on what kind of parent I would be. I am adding you to my ignore list as well. I have run out of patience for someone who is not my child.



Thank god, now i wont have to worry about you bullying me by calling me ignorant and hurting my feelings because you have no clue how children evolve and grow up in the real world. reading someones theories on how it works is not the same as living it but as i said before, i hope you never do it for realz. You must of had one farked up childhood to believe a 6 year old has the capacity to fully undrestand the ramifications of this descision and support the insanity of his parents for encouraging this. Maybe you are setting up 6 year olds be able to consent for your NAMBLA buddies, i dont know but what ever your reasons are they are misguided and insane. HE IS 6 YEARS OLD!!!!
 
2013-02-28 02:20:41 PM  
There is so much self-righteous bullshiat in this thread that I could fertilize the south-40 until it turned Baptist and claimed to see Jesus.
 
2013-02-28 02:20:55 PM  

Another interview:

What did you want to be when you grew up? How does your real life today compare?

Interestingly enough, I wanted to be a Neonatologist that specialized in special needs babies. While I'm not a Dr, I did end up in the health care field and work 24/7 with my special needs kiddos.


Yes. Just a coincidence I am sure.

Mom looks crazy and dad looks like "I HATE MY LIFE".
 
2013-02-28 02:22:58 PM  

doubled99: Biology is what makes you female, no matter how you FEEL about it.

You should really get up to speed with current gender research. You look incredibly ignorant and prejudiced.

Do some more research yourself and don't just  cherry-pick whatever new study fits your already pre-conceived notions.  The  research on this issue has always been very prone to political correctness and social agenda.  It's also been incredibly flawed going back to the seventies, when it first became fashionable to posit that gender was taught by society instead of biological.


The DSM makes liberal use of cop outs as "cultural norms" and "clinically significant functional impairment". I don't know why people think there's a magical science book on social issues which settles every conceivable argument by citing numerous high powered studies. There is still debate on whether sodium causes high blood pressure.
 
2013-02-28 02:24:49 PM  

Theaetetus: NCg8r: Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.

Perhaps you should do more reading and less ranting.


I wouldn't want to miss out on another of your sanctimonious and condescending opinions masquerading as uncontested facts.

/every stinking thread with this guy....
 
2013-02-28 02:25:54 PM  
At the end of this thread there will be a cloud of particles, the sun will rise, and a rainbow will appear
 
2013-02-28 02:27:44 PM  

Eidola: ginandbacon: Eidola: Now I know who and what I am, the problem I am facing is giving up the safety of the persona I was forced to create for the uncertainty of transitioning.

Please know that you are accepted and valued for who you are. Not how others view you, how you present yourself to us. How you define yourself. And you are helping young people with their own journeys.   It's huge for them to have models like you to follow.

Thank you! :o)

The one thing I am very thankful for is my partner, she accepts me for who I am, and tends to get upset with people who do not... which is a huge support for me.


She sounds awesome :)
 
2013-02-28 02:29:29 PM  
It was refuted by the the actual subject, who, after years of confusion, anger and a suicide attempt, changed his identity back to male, married a woman, and continues to live this way killed himself.

That's some mighty fine background research, Lou.

Really? I'm sorry I did not continue to follow his life
Doesn't exactly help the original argument, does it?.
 
2013-02-28 02:29:41 PM  

Rurouni: How would a 6 year old even know that they are "transgendered"?

The more likely explanation is that mommy and/or daddy wanted a daughter so they made their son into one. Little kids are incredibly impressionable...that I do know.


How would a six year old child know she was diabetic? Is China full of girls who became boys because their parents wanted a boy?
 
2013-02-28 02:31:36 PM  
I like the penis I was born with. Had a lot of fun with it - still dust it off every now & then - but I can commiserate with someone born with one that doesn't like it.

Does it solely identify who I am? No. Has possessing one caused me grief? Oh Christ - YES! But I've never felt the urge to hack it off.

Now if I was born with an unwanted set of 38DD tits on my self-identified male person, I would hope society would understand my position to hack them off.
I would also understand some dudes reacting negatively to a large-breasted she-beast taking a piss beside them in the ol' can and I would sequester myself to a stall for my twinkling purposes. It might be a violation of my pissing rights - but it's an accommodation I could live with.

I believe "Coy" could use a single-seater sh*t-house as a fair compromise to all concerned without too much fuss & drama.
 
2013-02-28 02:32:52 PM  

Theaetetus: NCg8r: Jesus Thumbfarking Christ, do you ever stop? Nobody in this thread advocated bullying or those who bully.

Perhaps you should do more reading and less ranting.


So predicting rain when there are storm clouds gathering is the same thing as encouraging and celebrating the rain???
 
2013-02-28 02:34:41 PM  

ciberido: gja: ciberido: Mager: Wow, since a six year old is fundamentally incapable of understanding gender roles, how farked up does Mom have to be in this situation. I guess she really wanted a daughter.

*points and laughs at the stupid person*


Using 'stupid' does nothing to bolster your standing or opinion.

Not really trying to.  If you're incapable of seeing how stupid Mager is without my having to explain it to you, you're stupid enough I'd rather just laugh at you, too, frankly.


Ah, the openmindedness I was chastised for not having last night!

Tell me something: where's your empathy for stupid people? You're quick to lash out at perceived slights against women and transgendered but have no inclinations against denigrating the "stupid". I'll have you know that stupid people make up 50% of the planet. You should do some research before making yourself look like a vapid twunt.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-02-28 02:35:31 PM  

orbister: gja: So, you think 6 year of age is adequate for a person to decide such matters as gender?
Even with the realization that it can be a defining choice with ramifications that can alter that persons entire life?
I would posit that 6 is a bit immature for such an issue to be concretely and permanently settled, and that by rushing the choice shows the people sanctioning such an early life-stage choice with such massive possible repercussions shows a lack of wisdom, maturity and sensitivity to the issue at hand.

You agree, therefore, that this child should not be compelled, at six, to commit to being male for ever? Because it's funny how people here seem to think that there is only one choice here. Very reminiscent of those who claim that gay people choose their sexuality but never think of themselves as having chosen straightness.


I agree that children should not be compelled to commit to much of anything at such an age. Let them have the room and time to sort these things out themselves. In time they will find out what THEIR lives need to be so that they are happy and well-adjusted. This mother is not doing that by publicizing this childs life in the manner she is. Now this kid will have less possibility of choice without pressure. The mother has not done her child any favors.
 
2013-02-28 02:35:46 PM  

orbister: Rurouni: How would a 6 year old even know that they are "transgendered"?

The more likely explanation is that mommy and/or daddy wanted a daughter so they made their son into one. Little kids are incredibly impressionable...that I do know.

How would a six year old child know she was diabetic? Is China full of girls who became boys because their parents wanted a boy?


Well, I suppose a six year old self-aware enough to understand that the carpet doesn't match the drapes would be capable of self-diagnosing with a life threatening pancreatic disorder and expressing it. Cross-dressing Chinese boys sound like a fetish or a band.
 
2013-02-28 02:36:09 PM  

quietwalker: Gingers get beat up in England all the time. So that means that a responsible parent would dye their kid's hair black, right?

If you have a kid who's getting beaten up because they're different, you may want to consider doing what's required to get your kid to conform, if your ONLY goal is to avoid confrontation. I suspect that may have an impact on the child's self-worth, but since that's doesn't factor into your thought process above, you would disregard it, right, even though it makes you an awful person?

Does my straw man hold up as well as yours?

Kids will tend to pick on anyone who is obviously different. The ones that don't may not have any logical reason why not - it could be something as irrelevant as liking the brand of shoes they wear. They are not mature enough to make rational non-judgmental decisions (and indeed, neither are many adults), and so bullying in one form or another - even if it's just passive isolation - is going to happen. This starts to change sometime around the age of 8-10, when the child gains the ability to role-take, when they can begin to consider what it's like to be another person. This gives them a personal ethical/moral scale to judge against, but it's still affected by their past and current experiences and associations.

As far as bullying goes, you can prevent some level of physical violence, and even things like name calling or verbal threats, but you cannot outright remove it. You certainly can't force bullies to ignore or befriend the victim either. Kids are too immature to make rational decisions at this level, and some folks never grow to the point where they can. Phrase it however you like, or correctly point at the instigators instead of the victims, or even point out the valid fact that it's unfair to make the victims change themselves to avoid abuse, but it'll happen anyway. It sucks, but perhaps if you've read this, you've learned a little more about the practical impact of the term 'immature'.


Sure, it'll happen, and it doesn't stop happening when you grow up. Fact is, you're going to encounter bullies at all ages in life, and you're going to need to learn to deal with them. I just happen to think that we shouldn't teach kids that the best way to go through life is to become a total doormat and water down every aspect of their individuality so as to avoid being targetted.
You gotta stand up for yourself, it's a fact of life. And it means you're gonna take shiat along the way. Yeah, it sucks, but I'd rather be true to myself and my principles and get my ass kicked every once in a while than cave in and mold my personality to cater to the petty prejudices of the people around me. Same goes for my kids.
 /And yes, you kinda are shifting responsibility for the ass-kicking to the one being bullied.
 
2013-02-28 02:36:57 PM  

ginandbacon: Eidola: ginandbacon: Eidola: Now I know who and what I am, the problem I am facing is giving up the safety of the persona I was forced to create for the uncertainty of transitioning.

Please know that you are accepted and valued for who you are. Not how others view you, how you present yourself to us. How you define yourself. And you are helping young people with their own journeys.   It's huge for them to have models like you to follow.

Thank you! :o)

The one thing I am very thankful for is my partner, she accepts me for who I am, and tends to get upset with people who do not... which is a huge support for me.

She sounds awesome :)


She is, and she helps me keep perspective, which is very helpful from time to time! ;o)
 
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