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(Huffington Post)   Polls show Americans largely favor cutting the deficit, however they also largely favor increasing spending without raising revenue. Welp, that's it folks, pack it up, democracy's over   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 325
    More: Fail, Americans, John Sides, Mark Mellman, military defenses, statistical significance, Pew Research Center, federal budget  
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1432 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Feb 2013 at 10:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-28 09:36:08 AM
Goddamn, the Cold War and decades of militaristic spending really farked us over. I still can't believe we've avoided what ultimately happened to the Russians, but I don't know how much longer the beast can be staved off. 10 years of war in Iraq and farting around in Afghanistan after 9/11 without paying for it......damn.
 
2013-02-28 10:04:46 AM
ftfa:  "large majority view deficit legislation essential"

0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

something about can't burden our children with debt, spending using a credit card from the bank of China, need to make tough decisions, blah, blah, blah, blah.

total fail.
 
2013-02-28 10:06:30 AM
Nobody actually cares about the deficit.
 
2013-02-28 10:07:57 AM
Not surprising, really. Who wouldn't want to get the best of both worlds? The trouble is that the public wants both, the two major parties only want one each, and we're going to end up getting nothing.
 
2013-02-28 10:09:48 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Nobody actually cares about the deficit.


if people don't care about spending money we don't have then subby is right.
 
2013-02-28 10:14:09 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Nobody actually cares about the deficit.


if by nobody you mean 72%, then you are right.  Otherwise you read the article and didn't understand it.

fta: 72 percent of Americans rated "reducing the deficit" as a top priority, second only to strengthening the economy and reducing unemployment.
 
2013-02-28 10:14:32 AM

Somacandra: Goddamn, the Cold War and decades of militaristic spending really farked us over. I still can't believe we've avoided what ultimately happened to the Russians, but I don't know how much longer the beast can be staved off. 10 years of war in Iraq and farting around in Afghanistan after 9/11 without paying for it......damn.


Having the world's reserve currency tends to protect one from such things.
 
2013-02-28 10:22:03 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: fta: 72 percent of Americans rated "reducing the deficit" as a top priority, second only to strengthening the economy and reducing unemployment.


Right. Now ask them, in the interest of deficit reduction, if they would be OK with cutting spending on the things they favor, or rely on. Given this chart:

images.huffingtonpost.com

They'd rather increase spending in practically every area - proving that when it comes down to it, nobody actually cares about the deficit. It's an easy thing to complain about, but it has very little direct effect on the average citizen's daily life. Spending however, does.
 
2013-02-28 10:27:40 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: tenpoundsofcheese: fta: 72 percent of Americans rated "reducing the deficit" as a top priority, second only to strengthening the economy and reducing unemployment.

Right. Now ask them, in the interest of deficit reduction, if they would be OK with cutting spending on the things they favor, or rely on. Given this chart:

[images.huffingtonpost.com image 291x594]

They'd rather increase spending in practically every area - proving that when it comes down to it, nobody actually cares about the deficit. It's an easy thing to complain about, but it has very little direct effect on the average citizen's daily life. Spending however, does.


you said nobody cares about it but I pointed out that 72% do care about it.
the chart doesn't tell you how the people who want to reduce spending want to reduce it nor by how much.

as an example, the 24% who want to reduce military spending could want it reduced by 60% which would go a long way to reducing the deficit.
 
2013-02-28 10:31:49 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.


tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.


www.usgovernmentspending.com

We're basically there. From 10% in 2009 to 5% in 2013. What am I missing?
 
2013-02-28 11:00:15 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: ftfa:  "large majority view deficit legislation essential"

0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

something about can't burden our children with debt, spending using a credit card from the bank of China, need to make tough decisions, blah, blah, blah, blah.

total fail.


Don't be so hard on yourself. Your post wasn't THAT bad.
 
2013-02-28 11:00:48 AM
www.whitehouse.gov

If Obama was a Republican the only argument the GOP would be having is how to fit his likeness onto Mt. Rushmore.
 
2013-02-28 11:02:48 AM

DamnYankees: tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.



We're basically there. From 10% in 2009 to 5% in 2013. What am I missing?


What you are missing?
How about honesty?

0bama didn't say deficit as a percent of some other number (which happens to be rising so it makes the percent look better)

Why not just do deficit as a percent of number of GOP members in congress? That would make the decline look even better.
 
2013-02-28 11:03:01 AM
Where is the chart that shows if someone wants benefits from increased spending and expects someone else to pay for it?

That should always be asked in polls like this.
 
2013-02-28 11:03:02 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Nobody actually cares about the deficit.


Precisely.  The national debt is a crisis manufactured by the GOP because it had almost nothing else to criticize the Obama administration for.  The debt ballooned under Bush, and so did spending, but that wasn't a concern of the GOP at all until a Democrat got in office.

We've always had a huge national debt, and most economics PhDs will tell you that there is no clear and present danger from having such a large debt.
 
2013-02-28 11:04:10 AM

"Well, Jay Carney, explain this to me: The most imperial president in American history, a man who boasts that he will rule by Executive Action if Congress refuses to pass legislation he favors, can't figure out how to direct spending cuts in a way that does the least harm to the American people?


....I can't wait."     -   Bill Frezza   Forbes

 
2013-02-28 11:04:23 AM
Deficits don't matter.
 
2013-02-28 11:04:29 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama didn't say deficit as a percent of some other number (which happens to be rising so it makes the percent look better)


Deficit as a share of GDP is the only number that actually means anything of significance.  Ask any PhD in economics.
 
2013-02-28 11:04:34 AM

GiantRex: the two major parties only want one each


Republicans and Teabaggers?
 
2013-02-28 11:04:48 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama didn't say deficit as a percent of some other number (which happens to be rising so it makes the percent look better)


Ok, here's raw numbers:

www.usgovernmentspending.com

So from about 1500 to above 850. Not half, but pretty close. We'll be over the target about a year late.

This is the end of the world to you?
 
2013-02-28 11:05:48 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: you said nobody cares about it but I pointed out that 72% do care about it.


72% care about it only because the GOP has fooled people into believing that it's a clear and present danger.  I bet if you looked at polls asking the same question in 2005, it would be a LOT lower.
 
2013-02-28 11:06:48 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Dusk-You-n-Me: Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

if by nobody you mean 72%, then you are right.  Otherwise you read the article and didn't understand it.

fta: 72 percent of Americans rated "reducing the deficit" as a top priority, second only to strengthening the economy and reducing unemployment.



I'll repeat myself:

72% care about it only because the GOP has fooled people into believing that it's a clear and present danger. I bet if you looked at polls asking the same question in 2005, it would be a LOT lower.
 
2013-02-28 11:06:49 AM
The Greatest Generation spoiled their Baby Boomer kids, and now those kids think that you get stuff without ever having to pay for it.
 
2013-02-28 11:06:56 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: DamnYankees: tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

We're basically there. From 10% in 2009 to 5% in 2013. What am I missing?

What you are missing?
How about honesty?

0bama didn't say deficit as a percent of some other number (which happens to be rising so it makes the percent look better)

Why not just do deficit as a percent of number of GOP members in congress? That would make the decline look even better.


Well because anyone who is not a mouth breathing moran understands that the number of dollars in the deficit is a worthless metric. Spending, revenue, debt and deficit as a percentage of GDP is how actual economists view government fiscal policy.

I know the average GOP apologist like yourself is incapable of understanding basic economic concepts like inflation, the future value of money and growth, but the adults in the room do.
 
2013-02-28 11:07:27 AM
If America were suddenly stricken by a bout of common sense, we'd all be running to buy guns to shoot ourselves or each other.
 
2013-02-28 11:07:59 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Dusk-You-n-Me: Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

if by nobody you mean 72%, then you are right.  Otherwise you read the article and didn't understand it.

fta: 72 percent of Americans rated "reducing the deficit" as a top priority, second only to strengthening the economy and reducing unemployment.


So, Americans are smarter than you and understand that getting people back to work is more important than just cutting the deficit, because working people pay taxes and don't need the social safety net, thereby reducing the deficit.

Why can't you be as smart as most Americans?
 
2013-02-28 11:08:16 AM

Trivia Jockey: I bet if you looked at polls asking the same question in 2005, it would be a LOT lower.


2007 & 2011:

www.slate.com

Link
 
2013-02-28 11:08:58 AM
So based on the headline they support the Bush GOP plan to further run us into the ground?
 
2013-02-28 11:09:32 AM
We like the Government spending money

Problem is is that we hate paying for it
 
2013-02-28 11:09:47 AM

max_pooper: tenpoundsofcheese: DamnYankees: tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

We're basically there. From 10% in 2009 to 5% in 2013. What am I missing?

What you are missing?
How about honesty?

0bama didn't say deficit as a percent of some other number (which happens to be rising so it makes the percent look better)

Why not just do deficit as a percent of number of GOP members in congress? That would make the decline look even better.

Well because anyone who is not a mouth breathing moran understands that the number of dollars in the deficit is a worthless metric. Spending, revenue, debt and deficit as a percentage of GDP is how actual economists view government fiscal policy.

I know the average GOP apologist like yourself is incapable of understanding basic economic concepts like inflation, the future value of money and growth, but the adults in the room do.


Now now, just because he's a sociopath doesn't make him a GOP apologist. It's just a happy coincidence that GOP policies are sociopathic.
 
2013-02-28 11:09:53 AM
Would you like to lose weight?

Yes.

Would you like to stop eating a carton of ice cream every week?

No.
 
2013-02-28 11:10:14 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Trivia Jockey: I bet if you looked at polls asking the same question in 2005, it would be a LOT lower.

2007 & 2011:

[www.slate.com image 568x270]


Black man be stealin'.
 
2013-02-28 11:10:35 AM
When you talk about cutting the deficit, all people hear is that there's some magic that's going to cut their taxes.  They don't really understand or care what it really means as long as the services they use aren't affected.
 
2013-02-28 11:10:51 AM
How about a progressive tax on capital gains?  If you're making farking $1 million capital gains, maybe you should pay a little more than 15%.
 
2013-02-28 11:11:11 AM
earthisland.com
 
2013-02-28 11:11:39 AM

Yanks_RSJ: Would you like to lose weight?

Yes.

Would you like other people to stop eating a carton of ice cream every week?

Yes No.



Fixed this to make it the GOP point of view.
 
2013-02-28 11:12:24 AM
Ascribing the 2009 deficit to Bush is dishonest.
 
2013-02-28 11:13:06 AM

AeAe: How about a progressive tax on capital gains?  If you're making farking $1 million capital gains, maybe you should pay a little more than 15%.


Income is income and should be subject to income and FICA taxes
 
2013-02-28 11:13:51 AM

IrateShadow: When you talk about cutting the deficit, all people hear is that there's some magic that's going to cut their taxes.  They don't really understand or care what it really means as long as the services they use aren't affected.


Right.  I bet if you asked the people who said the deficit is the #1 problem in America if they think taxes should be cut to help reduce the deficit, most of them would say yes...not understanding that not only are these two things not related to each other, but also that reducing taxes actually grows the deficit.
 
2013-02-28 11:13:55 AM

AeAe: If you're making farking $1 million capital gains, maybe you should pay a little more than 15%.

Some

progress was made in that regard. They were raised to 20% on incomes above $400/450K.

The top marginal tax rate on long-term capital gains of 20%, provided for under the expiration of the 2003 portion of the Bush tax cuts, was retained. This was an increase from the 2003-2012 rate of 15%.[3]

The top marginal tax rate on dividends, which would have increased to the ordinary income rate of 39.6% due to the expiration of the 2003 portion of the Bush tax cuts, was set to the capital-gains rate of 20%. This was an increase from the 2003-2012 rate of 15%.[3]
Link
 
2013-02-28 11:14:30 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Ascribing the 2009 deficit to Bush is dishonest.


Really? Do you know how fiscal year budgets work?
 
2013-02-28 11:14:43 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: ftfa:  "large majority view deficit legislation essential"

0bama said he would CUT the deficit in HALF by the end of his first term.

something about can't burden our children with debt, spending using a credit card from the bank of China, need to make tough decisions, blah, blah, blah, blah.

total fail.


Yeah. So this means Zombie Ayn Rand is President and all Democrats are to report to their nearest electrocution center immediately.

You know, Poundsy? Sometimes the clusterfark is so huge that even you cannot come up with a retort to explain it all away.
 
2013-02-28 11:14:44 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Ascribing the 2009 deficit to Bush is dishonest.


Bullsh*t.

Link
 
2013-02-28 11:16:09 AM
Don't worry, they'll get us in the black by cutting some rounding error-sized thing from the budget.

This microscopic line item may or may not actually exist.
 
2013-02-28 11:17:56 AM
Scalpel, not a hatchet.


letmelaughevenharder.jpeg
 
2013-02-28 11:19:10 AM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: AeAe: How about a progressive tax on capital gains?  If you're making farking $1 million capital gains, maybe you should pay a little more than 15%.

Income is income and should be subject to income and FICA taxes


I agree with you on principle, although an argument can be made that a more favorable tax structure on capital gains could encourage further investing.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:21 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: If Obama was a Republican the only argument the GOP would be having is how to fit his likeness onto Mt. Rushmore.


Next time you post that chart you may want to edit out 2008
 
2013-02-28 11:23:10 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Next time you post that chart you may want to edit out 2008


Why?
 
2013-02-28 11:23:49 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Dusk-You-n-Me: If Obama was a Republican the only argument the GOP would be having is how to fit his likeness onto Mt. Rushmore.

Next time you post that chart you may want to edit out 2008


Does that year not exist?
 
2013-02-28 11:25:47 AM

themindiswatching: Somacandra: Goddamn, the Cold War and decades of militaristic spending really farked us over. I still can't believe we've avoided what ultimately happened to the Russians, but I don't know how much longer the beast can be staved off. 10 years of war in Iraq and farting around in Afghanistan after 9/11 without paying for it......damn.

Having the world's reserve currency tends to protect one from such things.


Err, during most of the cold war and the Vietnam War and all that, the US debt was going down reliably year after year (in terms of % of GDP). Even the late 70s oil crisis and what not didn't hurt it. The thing that reversed the trend of paying down the WWII (and previous) debts was Reagans massive defense spending hikes along with tax cuts and lots of corporate welfare.
 
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