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(Huffington Post)   "The level of enmity and distrust here between Democrats and Republicans is as deep as it has been in a long time -- and both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 34
    More: Scary, Democrats, Republican  
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1073 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Feb 2013 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-28 09:52:17 AM  
5 votes:
the climate of partisanship in washington is 90 percent due to republicans and 10 percent due to democrats... so both sides are bad. got it.
2013-02-28 09:26:06 AM  
3 votes:
More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.
2013-02-28 12:37:23 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: verbaltoxin: it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it.

Stories like this bring to mind the studies done, where policies are explained without partisan labels attached, and Democratic policies are  heavily favored. Attach "Democrat" to the label, and support is halved. It's mind-boggling.


It's conditioning. Long, steady conditioning, from the pulpit and campaign podium. And now from a 24 hours news cycle representing only one viewpoint, customized and sold to a thirsty audience.
2013-02-28 10:18:12 AM  
2 votes:
The modern Republican Party is the greatest threat the world has ever faced.
2013-02-28 03:42:17 PM  
1 votes:
I say let them happen, I'm tired of going from fake crisis to fake crisis because congress likes putting off work, not doing work, extending debt limits a few weeks at a time and the like. I'm tired of living in what is effectively a continual crisis brought on by the party not in power refusing to let even the most basic functions of government progress unhindered. Aside from this, better the sequester than the debt limit argument, we can't keep this idiocy up... better to work our shiat out now than keep waiting.
2013-02-28 03:17:47 PM  
1 votes:

BilltheThrill: If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.


You're right. We need to raise revenue so we can pay our bills.
2013-02-28 01:41:53 PM  
1 votes:
Let me simplify this for everyone.

It takes two to make peace.

It only takes one to make war.

/sad, but true.
2013-02-28 01:05:11 PM  
1 votes:

Citrate1007: PanicMan: Summary of the article:  "Obama is acting rationally, and is willing to make concessions in the best interests of the country.  But that means it's his fault the Repbulicans are disorganised and refusing to do anything productive.  I have no idea if its even possible to solve this, but Obama needs to do it somehow."

When you are the only adult in the situation it is your responsibility.


But in this case, the "children" have the law of the land behind them.  Obama can't just executive order the Republicans to come to the table and make concessions.
2013-02-28 12:40:37 PM  
1 votes:
BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?
2013-02-28 12:34:55 PM  
1 votes:

netcentric: I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.
7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?


/spent more time threatening journalists


Are you sure you put enough white space in your comment? I think you need more white space.
2013-02-28 12:32:45 PM  
1 votes:

verbaltoxin: it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it.


Stories like this bring to mind the studies done, where policies are explained without partisan labels attached, and Democratic policies are  heavily favored. Attach "Democrat" to the label, and support is halved. It's mind-boggling.
2013-02-28 12:29:42 PM  
1 votes:
verbaltoxin:
I'll reiterate what I said earlier: the American conservative movement as we know it is in its death throes. Conservativism isn't. As long as there is privilege and classism in America, there will be conservativism. It will bear a new face one day, but it'll be around.

Just so long as the dominionist theocrats don't ever get control of the US government.  that would be the end of this country.
2013-02-28 12:00:37 PM  
1 votes:
If you want to find out the root of this partisan dysfunction, read The Broken Branch and It's Even Worse Than it Looks, by thomas mann and norm ornstein of the brookings institution and the american enterprise institute (hardly bastions of fringe liberalism).
2013-02-28 11:39:31 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.


I'd argue that the most lasting damage done by the Republicans is to destroy the faith the public has in the institutions of government. That is a far more pernicious attack than political bickering between opposition parties.
2013-02-28 11:35:17 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.


Remember how "liberal" is such a dirty word that even people like myself can't even utter to admit that they're liberal and proud of it?  There will come a day that conservatives (as a whole) will be subject to the same treatment.  That day's coming sooner than you think.
2013-02-28 11:32:40 AM  
1 votes:

verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.


The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.
2013-02-28 11:25:39 AM  
1 votes:
Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.
2013-02-28 11:20:13 AM  
1 votes:

not5am: Freeballin: Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?

because federal congressional campaigns cost a TON of money. there are more than 2 parties in the local level, but the money needed to win a federal seat is a big barrier to entry for the smaller parties.


we could fix that, if we wanted.  But we're not going to do that.
2013-02-28 11:12:23 AM  
1 votes:

kumanoki: That's the entire point of the article. At what point does the blame encompass all sides so thoroughly that the people revolt against the entirety of the government because of the inaction?


This reduces to the GOP complaint of "WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP ME???"  While the Dems are guilty of letting the GOP get away with far too much, it is also true that it shouldn't be their job to vigilantly keep watch over a crowd of psychopaths so they don't hurt themselves and others.  I blame the GOP for being insane and the Dems for being too kind to them, but that isn't the same thing as saying "both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country".  The GOP simply shouldn't be playing a game where it becomes the responsibility of the Dems to keep them from destroying everything.  The blame rests on them.
2013-02-28 11:06:07 AM  
1 votes:

Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.


yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.
2013-02-28 11:02:45 AM  
1 votes:

clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.


I don't think the GOP would even notice if/when they lose.  look what happened to Romney - complete devastation.  lost the white house, lost the electoral college by a landslide.  lost ground in the House, lost ground in the senate. lost key races at the state level around the country.  lost to gay marriage and lost to cannabis legalization efforts in two states.  The Republican response?  ATTACK ON ALL FRONTS!

they're nuts.
2013-02-28 10:53:38 AM  
1 votes:
Summary of the article:  "Obama is acting rationally, and is willing to make concessions in the best interests of the country.  But that means it's his fault the Repbulicans are disorganised and refusing to do anything productive.  I have no idea if its even possible to solve this, but Obama needs to do it somehow."
2013-02-28 10:49:22 AM  
1 votes:

usernameguy: More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.


The Democrats want us to raise taxes on people who make a lot of money. Republicans are willing to shut the government down to prevent that from happening. The Democrats are bad. The Republicans are bad. Lets not focus on which side of the issue most Americans fall on. Lets focus on the bullshiat idea that both sides are responsible for the "gridlock". And by gridlock I mean, Republican obstructionism.
2013-02-28 10:47:46 AM  
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: and both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country

Um, no.  Dem representatives and the President continually underestimate the GOP's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country, despite the GOP's best efforts to scream their intentions from the roof-tops.  The rest of us are left wondering if the Dems just intentionally let them do it.


let me put it this way - to a certain extent, theater and melodrama are always a part of politics.  you expect the other side to put on a show, do a song and dance, maybe include a bit of pyrotechnics while they play to the audience.  But to the Democrats, it still looks like a show.  the Republicans, on the other hand, are starting to believe their own press releases.  they're starting to think they really CAN saw a woman in half and not use misdirection and illusion to pull off the stunt.  thing is...they're not telling the audience what's up.  they're still acting like this is theater as usual....but they're quietly removing the safety devices from their equipment and proceeding as if things were going to turn out ok.  so is it just the normal tricks?  is it still performance art?  or is it murder being carried out on stage?  if we interrupt, will we find out it was all just a massive mind fark...or do we let it continue and hope the GOP really isn't as insane as they sound...?
2013-02-28 10:39:14 AM  
1 votes:
The Democrats will admit they've got some things that need fixing - a couple members who shouldn't be in office, sometimes they get cranky and obstinate.  a few procedural errors they should fix within their party.  that sort of thing.  But I don't the Republicans admitting that they've made mistakes.  Romney never did, nor has Boehner.  the tea party believes they're right and everyone else is wrong.  the evangelicals KNOW they are right and everyone else is evil.  Nobody can tell the GOP that they've got the wrong ideas or that they're going about things in a very bad way...they just assume that any critical review is 'Republican bashing' and bunker down till it blows over.  then get right back up and keep doing the same things they've always done.

I don't get it.
2013-02-28 10:35:41 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.


What happens is that a lot of little parties will start up and try to fill the void, meanwhile the Democrats will have an easier time, but not total free reign. What I expect to happen is that the Republicans lose a lot of seats to independents  who eventually form a new party.

This new party will probably be focused on economics while leaning heavily to the right on social issues. Looking a lot like the GOP used to look before the evangelicalism got a hold of it.
2013-02-28 10:31:24 AM  
1 votes:

BilltheThrill: If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.


the Pentagon?
2013-02-28 10:25:40 AM  
1 votes:
I got to the part where Obama has to "save the Republicans from themselves" and then I had to stop reading.


"As for the Republicans - how can one regard seriously a frightened, greedy, nostalgic huddle of tradesmen and lucky idlers who shut their eyes to history and science, steel their emotions against decent human sympathy, cling to sordid and provincial ideals exalting sheer acquisitiveness and condoning artificial hardship for the non-materially-shrewd, dwell smugly and sentimentally in a distorted dream-cosmos of outmoded phrases and principles and attitudes based on the bygone agricultural-handicraft world, and revel in (consciously or unconsciously) mendacious assumptions (such as the notion that real liberty is synonymous with the single detail of unrestricted economic license or that a rational planning of resource-distribution would contravene some vague and mystical 'American heritage'...) utterly contrary to fact and without the slightest foundation in human experience? Intellectually, the Republican idea deserves the tolerance and respect one gives to the dead."
- Letter to C.L. Moore (August 1936), quoted in "H.P. Lovecraft
2013-02-28 10:23:17 AM  
1 votes:

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


Obama has tried to negotiate with the Republicans...but the GOP 1. has no clear leader and 2. seems hell bent on destroying the country.  how do you compromise with a  party that believes compromise is evil?  A democratic republic CAN NOT function without compromise.  it's what keeps the machinery of government working.  But the Republicans not only refuse to compromise...they believe the entire concept to be evil.  so how do you keep it all together and working when the other half of your political structure is institutionally insane?

that's Obama's challenge.  And I do not envy the man.
2013-02-28 10:23:08 AM  
1 votes:
Ahhh yes, that wonderful thing call false equivalency.

David Brooks called, he wants his schtick back
2013-02-28 10:22:36 AM  
1 votes:
Bwhahahahahahahahah!

That negotiating tactic works if both sides are reasonable, but as seen in Obama's first term whenever he moved closer to the Republicans they moved further away. The only way a deal is going to get done is if he breaks the Republicans and quite possibly the country.

The Republicans refuse to talk about tax increases and until they do there is no reason to offer them anything, because the problems we are facing economically as a nation will not be fixed by cuts to the budget alone. Obama has always offered them more cuts to the budget then tax increases, but they refuse to be reasonable.
2013-02-28 10:22:31 AM  
1 votes:

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


Nah.  There are few like minded people in here that correctly point the blame.  That blame rests solely with capitalism.
2013-02-28 10:19:04 AM  
1 votes:
img1.imagesbn.com

Jesus Lana, read a book.
2013-02-28 09:58:54 AM  
1 votes:

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


Oh god you're right the Republicans totally want to work with him but he won't let them worst president ever
 
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