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(Huffington Post)   "The level of enmity and distrust here between Democrats and Republicans is as deep as it has been in a long time -- and both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 138
    More: Scary, Democrats, Republican  
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1072 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Feb 2013 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-28 09:26:06 AM
More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.
 
2013-02-28 09:37:37 AM
Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.
 
2013-02-28 09:52:17 AM
the climate of partisanship in washington is 90 percent due to republicans and 10 percent due to democrats... so both sides are bad. got it.
 
2013-02-28 09:58:54 AM

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


Oh god you're right the Republicans totally want to work with him but he won't let them worst president ever
 
2013-02-28 10:16:36 AM

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


Getting creative today, I see. 8/10
 
2013-02-28 10:17:43 AM
Right.......
 
2013-02-28 10:17:53 AM

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


Too obvious.  2/10
 
2013-02-28 10:18:12 AM
The modern Republican Party is the greatest threat the world has ever faced.
 
2013-02-28 10:18:19 AM
If you have a problem with spoiled children running the country, stop voting Republicrat.
 
2013-02-28 10:19:04 AM
img1.imagesbn.com

Jesus Lana, read a book.
 
2013-02-28 10:20:10 AM
We have to destroy it to save it from being destroyed by the other party.
 
2013-02-28 10:20:52 AM
Well, shiat. If both sides are bad, whom should I vote for?
 
2013-02-28 10:21:11 AM
This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.
 
2013-02-28 10:22:16 AM

BillCo: Obama, the great divider.


I know, right? Remember when McConnell said that their number one goal was to make Obama an effective unifier, and Obama gave them the finger? Jeez, what's that guy's problem?
 
2013-02-28 10:22:27 AM
More blame from the blame everyone crowd.
 
2013-02-28 10:22:29 AM
This a conservative posting, so everything is naturally the fault of the 0bummer
 
2013-02-28 10:22:31 AM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


Nah.  There are few like minded people in here that correctly point the blame.  That blame rests solely with capitalism.
 
2013-02-28 10:22:36 AM
Bwhahahahahahahahah!

That negotiating tactic works if both sides are reasonable, but as seen in Obama's first term whenever he moved closer to the Republicans they moved further away. The only way a deal is going to get done is if he breaks the Republicans and quite possibly the country.

The Republicans refuse to talk about tax increases and until they do there is no reason to offer them anything, because the problems we are facing economically as a nation will not be fixed by cuts to the budget alone. Obama has always offered them more cuts to the budget then tax increases, but they refuse to be reasonable.
 
2013-02-28 10:23:08 AM
Ahhh yes, that wonderful thing call false equivalency.

David Brooks called, he wants his schtick back
 
2013-02-28 10:23:11 AM
This IS a conservative posting...


ffs
 
2013-02-28 10:23:17 AM

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


Obama has tried to negotiate with the Republicans...but the GOP 1. has no clear leader and 2. seems hell bent on destroying the country.  how do you compromise with a  party that believes compromise is evil?  A democratic republic CAN NOT function without compromise.  it's what keeps the machinery of government working.  But the Republicans not only refuse to compromise...they believe the entire concept to be evil.  so how do you keep it all together and working when the other half of your political structure is institutionally insane?

that's Obama's challenge.  And I do not envy the man.
 
2013-02-28 10:24:36 AM

busy chillin': We have to destroy it to save it from being destroyed by the other party.


It might be destroyed, but only because the Republicans are not being rational, but then when you drive all the intellectuals and moderates out of the party the only people left are those creatures nobody can negotiate with.

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.
 
2013-02-28 10:25:28 AM

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.



You mean like giving the House 98% of what they wanted? Or extending the Bush Era tax cuts?
 
2013-02-28 10:25:40 AM
I got to the part where Obama has to "save the Republicans from themselves" and then I had to stop reading.


"As for the Republicans - how can one regard seriously a frightened, greedy, nostalgic huddle of tradesmen and lucky idlers who shut their eyes to history and science, steel their emotions against decent human sympathy, cling to sordid and provincial ideals exalting sheer acquisitiveness and condoning artificial hardship for the non-materially-shrewd, dwell smugly and sentimentally in a distorted dream-cosmos of outmoded phrases and principles and attitudes based on the bygone agricultural-handicraft world, and revel in (consciously or unconsciously) mendacious assumptions (such as the notion that real liberty is synonymous with the single detail of unrestricted economic license or that a rational planning of resource-distribution would contravene some vague and mystical 'American heritage'...) utterly contrary to fact and without the slightest foundation in human experience? Intellectually, the Republican idea deserves the tolerance and respect one gives to the dead."
- Letter to C.L. Moore (August 1936), quoted in "H.P. Lovecraft
 
2013-02-28 10:26:24 AM
Stopping bad bills from passing is more important than passing good bills.

Also, WE ARE WINNING!!!
 
2013-02-28 10:26:52 AM
Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.
 
2013-02-28 10:26:53 AM

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


To be fair, you cannot blame Obama for a lack of leadership, when he has none to begin with.  Since everyone in Washington knows he does not legitimately hold the Office of President of the United States of America, no one pays any attention to him and his empty suit.  The real culprit here is teh Democratic party, which won a narrow victory in November through shady voting practices by the coastal elites and illegal immigrants, and are now acting like they have cart blounche to spend this country into oblivia.

If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.
 
2013-02-28 10:27:09 AM
Obama should challenge McConnell to arm wrestle, then let him win. Maybe then something good can happen.
 
2013-02-28 10:27:50 AM

I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.


7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?




/spent more time threatening journalists

 
2013-02-28 10:28:02 AM
BilltheThrill:
If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.

so far that's both parties...
 
2013-02-28 10:31:24 AM

BilltheThrill: If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.


the Pentagon?
 
2013-02-28 10:35:41 AM

Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.


What happens is that a lot of little parties will start up and try to fill the void, meanwhile the Democrats will have an easier time, but not total free reign. What I expect to happen is that the Republicans lose a lot of seats to independents  who eventually form a new party.

This new party will probably be focused on economics while leaning heavily to the right on social issues. Looking a lot like the GOP used to look before the evangelicalism got a hold of it.
 
2013-02-28 10:36:04 AM
While there certainly are stupid Democrats who put party first and will block even sensible things that everyone likes, or insert unreasonable demands into bills that cause them to fail... when for one party it's "some people" and for the other it's "every single member of the entire party" you kind of have to admit that the problem is really the GOP's.
 
2013-02-28 10:39:14 AM
The Democrats will admit they've got some things that need fixing - a couple members who shouldn't be in office, sometimes they get cranky and obstinate.  a few procedural errors they should fix within their party.  that sort of thing.  But I don't the Republicans admitting that they've made mistakes.  Romney never did, nor has Boehner.  the tea party believes they're right and everyone else is wrong.  the evangelicals KNOW they are right and everyone else is evil.  Nobody can tell the GOP that they've got the wrong ideas or that they're going about things in a very bad way...they just assume that any critical review is 'Republican bashing' and bunker down till it blows over.  then get right back up and keep doing the same things they've always done.

I don't get it.
 
2013-02-28 10:40:22 AM

BilltheThrill: BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.

To be fair, you cannot blame Obama for a lack of leadership, when he has none to begin with.  Since everyone in Washington knows he does not legitimately hold the Office of President of the United States of America, no one pays any attention to him and his empty suit.  The real culprit here is teh Democratic party, which won a narrow victory in November through shady voting practices by the coastal elites and illegal immigrants, and are now acting like they have cart blounche to spend this country into oblivia.

If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.


I really, really hope this is
I really, really hope this is one person talking to himself with two of his troll accounts./Possibly while masturbating furiously to his own cleverness
 
2013-02-28 10:40:31 AM

Tyrano Soros: BilltheThrill: If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.

the Pentagon?


Blaming the troops?  I knew this was coming, just not so quickly.
 
2013-02-28 10:40:47 AM
I havent seen emnity like this since 1856.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-28 10:41:53 AM
Who you blame comes down to whether you agree with raising taxes on the wealthy or not......guess what we just had a national election about this.  It is clear what the people wanted.
 
2013-02-28 10:42:57 AM

BilltheThrill: BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.

To be fair, you cannot blame Obama for a lack of leadership, when he has none to begin with.  Since everyone in Washington knows he does not legitimately hold the Office of President of the United States of America, no one pays any attention to him and his empty suit.  The real culprit here is teh Democratic party, which won a narrow victory in November through shady voting practices by the coastal elites and illegal immigrants, and are now acting like they have cart blounche to spend this country into oblivia.

If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.



Please try make your alts a little bit harder to spot. It's good that you didn't just call this one "BillCo 2.0", but a little effort would be apperciated..
 
2013-02-28 10:43:05 AM
and both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country

Um, no.  Dem representatives and the President continually underestimate the GOP's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country, despite the GOP's best efforts to scream their intentions from the roof-tops.  The rest of us are left wondering if the Dems just intentionally let them do it.
 
2013-02-28 10:45:26 AM

BilltheThrill: Tyrano Soros: BilltheThrill: If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.

the Pentagon?

Blaming the troops?  I knew this was coming, just not so quickly.



Wait, troops determine the economic policy in the Pentagon?
 
2013-02-28 10:45:47 AM
Heh. You think?
 
2013-02-28 10:47:46 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: and both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country

Um, no.  Dem representatives and the President continually underestimate the GOP's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country, despite the GOP's best efforts to scream their intentions from the roof-tops.  The rest of us are left wondering if the Dems just intentionally let them do it.


let me put it this way - to a certain extent, theater and melodrama are always a part of politics.  you expect the other side to put on a show, do a song and dance, maybe include a bit of pyrotechnics while they play to the audience.  But to the Democrats, it still looks like a show.  the Republicans, on the other hand, are starting to believe their own press releases.  they're starting to think they really CAN saw a woman in half and not use misdirection and illusion to pull off the stunt.  thing is...they're not telling the audience what's up.  they're still acting like this is theater as usual....but they're quietly removing the safety devices from their equipment and proceeding as if things were going to turn out ok.  so is it just the normal tricks?  is it still performance art?  or is it murder being carried out on stage?  if we interrupt, will we find out it was all just a massive mind fark...or do we let it continue and hope the GOP really isn't as insane as they sound...?
 
2013-02-28 10:48:39 AM
Oh, boy, BSABSVR, this is new and exciting. Also, this thread got farmed in the ass pretty much immediately, so thanks for that.
 
2013-02-28 10:48:53 AM

Slaves2Darkness: The only way a deal is going to get done is if he breaks the Republicans and quite possibly the country.


Breaking the Republicans won't break the country and it's a good idea.
They need to be tossed on the rubbish heap of history along with The Whigs.
Hopefully the younger generations will be wiser than their Reagan loving Boomer ancestors.
 
2013-02-28 10:49:04 AM

"Well, Jay Carney, explain this to me: The most imperial president in American history, a man who boasts that he will rule by Executive Action if Congress refuses to pass legislation he favors, can't figure out how to direct spending cuts in a way that does the least harm to the American people?

....I can't wait."     -   Bill Frezza   Forbes

 
2013-02-28 10:49:22 AM

usernameguy: More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.


The Democrats want us to raise taxes on people who make a lot of money. Republicans are willing to shut the government down to prevent that from happening. The Democrats are bad. The Republicans are bad. Lets not focus on which side of the issue most Americans fall on. Lets focus on the bullshiat idea that both sides are responsible for the "gridlock". And by gridlock I mean, Republican obstructionism.
 
2013-02-28 10:51:01 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: and both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country

Um, no.  Dem representatives and the President continually underestimate the GOP's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country, despite the GOP's best efforts to scream their intentions from the roof-tops.  The rest of us are left wondering if the Dems just intentionally let them do it.



That's the entire point of the article. At what point does the blame encompass all sides so thoroughly that the people revolt against the entirety of the government because of the inaction?
 
2013-02-28 10:52:11 AM

usernameguy: More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.


This.

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.


Oh yes, BillCo with his usual "It's Obama's fault the Republicans' are childish assholes".  Nothing new here.
 
2013-02-28 10:53:38 AM
Summary of the article:  "Obama is acting rationally, and is willing to make concessions in the best interests of the country.  But that means it's his fault the Repbulicans are disorganised and refusing to do anything productive.  I have no idea if its even possible to solve this, but Obama needs to do it somehow."
 
2013-02-28 10:55:29 AM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


In other words: stating the obvious?
 
2013-02-28 10:57:02 AM
kumanoki:
That's the entire point of the article. At what point does the blame encompass all sides so thoroughly that the people revolt against the entirety of the government because of the inaction?

got me.  I do know that our society has some pretty serious issues.  the divide between rich and poor is growing far to wide again.  if that imbalance isn't addressed, bad things happen.
 
2013-02-28 10:57:31 AM
Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.
 
2013-02-28 11:00:03 AM
Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?  Are people too stupid?  If these people would self-identify their party correctly, people would know who to vote for.  Nothing wrong with being from the CDU, SPD, FDP etc., (German political parties, of which there are more than two), as long as people know what their values are and who they're voting for.  It would help America immensely IMO.  People who want to vote for super religious fundies would know what party to vote for.  People who want conservative but not overly religious would know.  And so on.

The obvious problem would be that they would have to share power and stick to an ideology which isn't currently the way, but that's exactly why we need it.  Wanna run as a Tea Partier?  Great, go for it, be open about it, but if they vote straight Repub, and not straight Tea Party you won't get their vote.  It's so bass ackwards to assume that people can only identify with one of two parties today, and more parties would give the libertarians a chance as well.
 
2013-02-28 11:02:26 AM
That is one, long concern troll piece, laden with "Both sides are bad," and a sprinkling of, "this is bad news...for Obama."

They may be right about that -- at least in the short run -- but even if they are, where will that get the White House? If the GOP is dragged to the negotiating table, will that lead to a so-called Grand Bargain? Will any resulting deal short-circuit the other pending disruptions: a vote on the regular budget March 27, another debt ceiling vote this summer? Will it do anything to ease the gridlock that has turned Washington into a never-ending standoff?

Or will it just make the atmosphere all the more toxic, resentful and angry?


And later...

These points are near and dear to the hearts of White House spinners. They make it abundantly clear that the president has not been a bad actor on deficits and budgets and that he is not solely, or necessarily even primarily, to blame for the mess we are in.

But all of this furious spinning and blame-placing misses the point. The president and his people can either keep piling up points in a game they have already won, or figure out a way forward at a time when the rest of the world increasingly is inclined to doubt American leadership for a host of other reasons.

No one claims to know what that way forward is. But "Forward" was Obama's winning campaign slogan. So that is the situation we are in.


Oh those poor, poor Republicans who pinned everything on defeating Obama and lost. Those poor entitled, privileged bastards bereft of ideas and anything other than opposition for opposition's sake.
 
2013-02-28 11:02:45 AM

clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.


I don't think the GOP would even notice if/when they lose.  look what happened to Romney - complete devastation.  lost the white house, lost the electoral college by a landslide.  lost ground in the House, lost ground in the senate. lost key races at the state level around the country.  lost to gay marriage and lost to cannabis legalization efforts in two states.  The Republican response?  ATTACK ON ALL FRONTS!

they're nuts.
 
2013-02-28 11:04:33 AM

clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.


Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.
 
2013-02-28 11:05:56 AM

Weaver95: clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.

I don't think the GOP would even notice if/when they lose.  look what happened to Romney - complete devastation.  lost the white house, lost the electoral college by a landslide.  lost ground in the House, lost ground in the senate. lost key races at the state level around the country.  lost to gay marriage and lost to cannabis legalization efforts in two states.  The Republican response?  ATTACK ON ALL FRONTS!

they're nuts.


"The level of activity that we see today from a military standpoint, I think, will clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency." - Vice President Dick Cheney, 2005

Cruel, cruel irony. It's delicious.
 
2013-02-28 11:06:07 AM

Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.


yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.
 
2013-02-28 11:06:54 AM

GiantRex: BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.

Getting creative today, I see. 8/10


Agree. 8/10.
 
2013-02-28 11:08:15 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.


It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."
 
2013-02-28 11:11:56 AM

verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."


verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."


i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the Republican can and will do in their death throes.  these are people who will not go gently into that good night.  they'll want to hurt as much of the country as they can.
 
2013-02-28 11:12:23 AM

kumanoki: That's the entire point of the article. At what point does the blame encompass all sides so thoroughly that the people revolt against the entirety of the government because of the inaction?


This reduces to the GOP complaint of "WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP ME???"  While the Dems are guilty of letting the GOP get away with far too much, it is also true that it shouldn't be their job to vigilantly keep watch over a crowd of psychopaths so they don't hurt themselves and others.  I blame the GOP for being insane and the Dems for being too kind to them, but that isn't the same thing as saying "both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country".  The GOP simply shouldn't be playing a game where it becomes the responsibility of the Dems to keep them from destroying everything.  The blame rests on them.
 
2013-02-28 11:13:31 AM

FlashHarry: the climate of partisanship in washington is 90 percent due to republicans and 10 percent due to democrats... so both sides are bad. got it.


If two people rib a bank and one of them shoots one person and the other shoots 9 , yeah they are both bad.
 
2013-02-28 11:14:34 AM
FTFA: Will any resulting deal short-circuit the other pending disruptions: a vote on the regular budget March 27, another debt ceiling vote this summer? Will it do anything to ease the gridlock that has turned Washington into a never-ending standoff? Or will it just make the atmosphere all the more toxic, resentful and angry?

Hey Washington, we don't give a fark if your frat party is a little awkward because one side demands Budweiser while the other wants Amstel Light. Tell your corporate overlords to STFU for a while and work through the shiat that needs to get done.
 
2013-02-28 11:17:57 AM

Freeballin: Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?


because federal congressional campaigns cost a TON of money. there are more than 2 parties in the local level, but the money needed to win a federal seat is a big barrier to entry for the smaller parties.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:13 AM

not5am: Freeballin: Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?

because federal congressional campaigns cost a TON of money. there are more than 2 parties in the local level, but the money needed to win a federal seat is a big barrier to entry for the smaller parties.


we could fix that, if we wanted.  But we're not going to do that.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

give me doughnuts: BilltheThrill: BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.

To be fair, you cannot blame Obama for a lack of leadership, when he has none to begin with.  Since everyone in Washington knows he does not legitimately hold the Office of President of the United States of America, no one pays any attention to him and his empty suit.  The real culprit here is teh Democratic party, which won a narrow victory in November through shady voting practices by the coastal elites and illegal immigrants, and are now acting like they have cart blounche to spend this country into oblivia.

If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.


Please try make your alts a little bit harder to spot. It's good that you didn't just call this one "BillCo 2.0", but a little effort would be apperciated..

Look, I know this is hard for many Dumbocrats to understand, but your left-wing, selfish, blame everyone ideology only exists in echo chambers liek this.  Don't be so shocked that most Americans (most English speaking Americans, anyways) do not share your blame America, punish the successful, spend spend spend ideas on governance.


It is remarkable that when two people exhibit the slightest bit of loosidity, you all immediately think that it is one person playing a trick on you.  The only one tricking you is your usurping messiah, and he's got you on teh hook bad.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:41 AM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


In a word, yes.

Only a bunch of knuckle-dragging morons would threaten to default on our credit.  And this is why we are where we are today.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:45 AM

Weaver95: verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."

verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on ...


Perhaps they might. They'll certainly try, and they're doing a ton of damage at the state level. At the national level though, they're pretty inert right now. I mean, what has all of Cantor's, Boehner's, McConnell's and other Republican leaders' posturing amounted to, exactly? They promised a fight over the debt ceiling this year. It didn't happen. They promised to fight tax increases back in December. They lost. These people have promised absolute resistance, and have crippled and bent to compromise each time - even if the liberal side hasn't been 100% happy with the results, or Obama in particular.

So now the sequester is on its way again. So? It took effect, kinda, in early January and in overtime, Congress kicked the can down the road a little more. What's to say that won't happen again? We've already learned these crises are all manufactured. If the sequester was that bad, why hasn't there been a deal yet? I agree it'll be painful, and the sequester contains poorly-timed, poorly-implemented and poorly-guided cuts. Yet it seems to me there's not as much fire as there is smoke in this instance.

We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

Hence I am expecting we'll see another deal that delays some of the sequester again, and we wind up with a deal that implements some token, planned cuts to ease the pain of those cuts that aren't delayed. We'll get a compromise. Not one Democrats will be totally happy with, but it'll be enough to once again prove the Republicans haven't any tactics other than stammer, refuse, posture and eventually give up.
 
2013-02-28 11:21:54 AM
BilltheThrill:
It is remarkable that when two people exhibit the slightest bit of loosidity, you all immediately think that it is one person playing a trick on you.  The only one tricking you is your usurping messiah, and he's got you on teh hook bad.

lucidity.  the word is spelled 'lucidity'.

at least we can tell you apart by your spelling mistakes.
 
2013-02-28 11:23:29 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.


That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.
 
2013-02-28 11:25:39 AM
Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.
 
2013-02-28 11:32:40 AM

verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.


The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.
 
2013-02-28 11:35:17 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.


Remember how "liberal" is such a dirty word that even people like myself can't even utter to admit that they're liberal and proud of it?  There will come a day that conservatives (as a whole) will be subject to the same treatment.  That day's coming sooner than you think.
 
2013-02-28 11:36:25 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.


I'll reiterate what I said earlier: the American conservative movement as we know it is in its death throes. Conservativism isn't. As long as there is privilege and classism in America, there will be conservativism. It will bear a new face one day, but it'll be around.
 
2013-02-28 11:39:31 AM

Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.


I'd argue that the most lasting damage done by the Republicans is to destroy the faith the public has in the institutions of government. That is a far more pernicious attack than political bickering between opposition parties.
 
2013-02-28 11:43:01 AM

BilltheThrill: It is remarkable that when two people exhibit the slightest bit of loosidity, you all immediately think that it is one person playing a trick on you.  The only one tricking you is your usurping messiah, and he's got you on teh hook bad.



Boooooorrrrrrrrriiiiinnnnnggggggg.
Try some new material. Preferably something this side of 2008.
 
2013-02-28 11:45:05 AM

qorkfiend: Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.

I'd argue that the most lasting damage done by the Republicans is to destroy the faith the public has in the institutions of government. That is a far more pernicious attack than political bickering between opposition parties.


It's almost as if the GOP is trying to drown it in a bathtub.
 
2013-02-28 11:46:27 AM

Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.


This.
It reminds me of divorces which are truly nasty businesses.  The party who "wins" or suffers less from a divorce is typically the party which approaches it the most like a game.  The party who is emotionally detached enough to approach it like a game, is the one with the less to lose.

Long story short, the GOP will be pissing blood at the end of this.
 
2013-02-28 11:49:28 AM

qorkfiend: Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.

I'd argue that the most lasting damage done by the Republicans is to destroy the faith the public has in the institutions of government. That is a far more pernicious attack than political bickering between opposition parties.


CSB time.

Recall how earlier in the thread, I mentioned how Republicans have done grave damage at the state level. My family has been involved with unions going back over 70 years. Currently my father works at a regional level for the union. He therefore deals with both businessmen and politicians constantly. He says it's almost impossible to get Democrats elected in his state. The populace, mostly rural, religious and Republican outside the two, major urban zones, is terrified of electing a Democrat. They don't care that it would be a Democrat from Missouri - certainly one who'd skew centrist on most issues, and even rightward on some others - it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it. That's what huge swaths of Missourians literally believe, and it's reflected currently in Missouri's heavily Republican, horribly inept legislature.

It won't take much searching to find Missouri's Congress bearing the same marks dragging down other red states: cutting taxes, running deficits, off-setting debt by gutting state programs, introducing creationism into education standards, reducing abortion access, giving favors to businesses (See the puppy mill law they repealed), catering to the religious right, and turning on their own (See Zach Wyatt after he came out). And now they're set to become a right to work state, a blow my father fears. Union presence in Missouri is small and mostly limited to the STL and KC regions. Right to work effectively tilts the state's interest against unionization, and puts labor at disadvantage to business. Yet the rubes are lining up and waiting to welcome it.

That is where the Republican Party is still in power, and that is the damage they are doing. If there's a new fight, it's retaking state governments from the claws of right wing fanaticism.
 
2013-02-28 11:58:31 AM
If the Democrats would just acquiese and let us eliminate the capital gains tax inheritance tax, minimum wage, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, then they need to help us institute a "fair tax" on all income between 100 and 100,000 dollars. Then they need to finally admit that life begins at insertion. Then we will pass a bill that postpones the sequester for 90 days.

But they refuse to compromise.
 
2013-02-28 12:00:37 PM
If you want to find out the root of this partisan dysfunction, read The Broken Branch and It's Even Worse Than it Looks, by thomas mann and norm ornstein of the brookings institution and the american enterprise institute (hardly bastions of fringe liberalism).
 
2013-02-28 12:02:04 PM

mrshowrules: Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.

This.
It reminds me of divorces which are truly nasty businesses.  The party who "wins" or suffers less from a divorce is typically the party which approaches it the most like a game.  The party who is emotionally detached enough to approach it like a game, is the one with the less to lose.

Long story short, the GOP will be pissing blood at the end of this.


Either just pissing blood or hooked up to life support machines because they're brain-damaged.  Verbaltoxin said it best:  the ideology of Conservatism will still exist.  The term itself however, will be cloaked under new catchphrases because any mention of someone being called a conservative will be looked at like he's a political leper.
 
2013-02-28 12:02:55 PM

Weaver95: we could fix that, if we wanted.  But we're not going to do that.


nope. that would take money to get people in office that's willing and able to change it. the only thing left at this point is to wait for both parties to self destruct and splinter.
 
2013-02-28 12:03:34 PM
When you look at Illinois and Michigan you can begin to see how nipping this problem in the bud makes good sense.
 
2013-02-28 12:04:32 PM

Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.



Gee, it is almost like the fate of the entire country mirrors the fate of the entire freaking country.  The end of the GOp coincideds with the growing-minority populace demanding service after service that we are unable to pay for, and the group of people trying to, you know, actually pay for what we can afford, are being marginalized or vilified for having the oddacity of demanding we only pay for what we need and make people take care of themselves.

Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything would turn their backs on the party who insists we stop with the handouts and spending.  Yep, nice "victory" you have their libtards.  Hope you have either a lot of gold or corn (like me), cause you're going to need it really soon.
 
2013-02-28 12:08:18 PM

BilltheThrill: Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything


lulz
 
2013-02-28 12:09:42 PM

BilltheThrill: Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.


Gee, it is almost like the fate of the entire country mirrors the fate of the entire freaking country.  The end of the GOp coincideds with the growing-minority populace demanding service after service that we are unable to pay for, and the group of people trying to, you know, actually pay for what we can afford, are being marginalized or vilified for having the oddacity of demanding we only pay for what we need and make people take care of themselves.

Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything would turn their backs on the party who insists we stop with the handouts and spending.  Yep, nice "victory" you have their libtards.  Hope you have either a lot of gold or corn (like me), cause you're going to need it really soon.


I like how you're trying to throw a libertarian bent towards this...but your thoughts betray your intent.
 
2013-02-28 12:13:11 PM

BilltheThrill: Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.


Gee, it is almost like the fate of the entire country mirrors the fate of the entire freaking country.  The end of the GOp coincideds with the growing-minority populace demanding service after service that we are unable to pay for, and the group of people trying to, you know, actually pay for what we can afford, are being marginalized or vilified for having the oddacity of demanding we only pay for what we need and make people take care of themselves.

Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything would turn their backs on the party who insists we stop with the handouts and spending.  Yep, nice "victory" you have their libtards.  Hope you have either a lot of gold or corn (like me), cause you're going to need it really soon.


www.artfire.com
Projection.
 
2013-02-28 12:18:09 PM

netcentric: I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.
7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?


/spent more time threatening journalists


I see the check cleared for March and you're getting warmed up.  Congratulations on finding employment in these dire economic times.

Truly, you are blessed.
 
2013-02-28 12:26:55 PM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


This is [strike]the politics tab[/strike] America, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


\too easy because its too true.
 
2013-02-28 12:29:42 PM
verbaltoxin:
I'll reiterate what I said earlier: the American conservative movement as we know it is in its death throes. Conservativism isn't. As long as there is privilege and classism in America, there will be conservativism. It will bear a new face one day, but it'll be around.

Just so long as the dominionist theocrats don't ever get control of the US government.  that would be the end of this country.
 
2013-02-28 12:32:45 PM

verbaltoxin: it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it.


Stories like this bring to mind the studies done, where policies are explained without partisan labels attached, and Democratic policies are  heavily favored. Attach "Democrat" to the label, and support is halved. It's mind-boggling.
 
2013-02-28 12:34:55 PM

netcentric: I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.
7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?


/spent more time threatening journalists


Are you sure you put enough white space in your comment? I think you need more white space.
 
2013-02-28 12:37:23 PM

qorkfiend: verbaltoxin: it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it.

Stories like this bring to mind the studies done, where policies are explained without partisan labels attached, and Democratic policies are  heavily favored. Attach "Democrat" to the label, and support is halved. It's mind-boggling.


It's conditioning. Long, steady conditioning, from the pulpit and campaign podium. And now from a 24 hours news cycle representing only one viewpoint, customized and sold to a thirsty audience.
 
2013-02-28 12:40:37 PM
BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?
 
2013-02-28 12:40:47 PM

netcentric: I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.
7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?


/spent more time threatening journalists



You may want to check the next thread up from this one.
 
2013-02-28 12:47:56 PM

Kittypie070: BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?



Ha!  And I'm the one they accuse of projection!  Keep telling the emperor how lovely his new clothes are.  St. Obama will take care of all of your problems so you don't need to take care of yourself.
 
2013-02-28 12:48:00 PM

PanicMan: Summary of the article:  "Obama is acting rationally, and is willing to make concessions in the best interests of the country.  But that means it's his fault the Repbulicans are disorganised and refusing to do anything productive.  I have no idea if its even possible to solve this, but Obama needs to do it somehow."


When you are the only adult in the situation it is your responsibility.
 
2013-02-28 12:50:02 PM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


indiedesign.typepad.com
 
2013-02-28 12:53:48 PM

BunkoSquad: BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.

Oh god you're right the Republicans totally want to work with him but he won't let them worst president ever


He probably took it personal when the that turtle from the GOP said his only goal was to make sure he didn't get re-elected. He's such a elitist jerk.

GOP - We do more nothing in 4 years then most people don't do in a lifetime.
 
2013-02-28 01:02:59 PM

usernameguy: More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.


Indeed.

Hey "both sides are bad" assholes, why don't you cite examples of Democrats dicking over the rest of us? I can cite quite a few elected officials/legislators with "R" after their name doing this.
 
2013-02-28 01:05:11 PM

Citrate1007: PanicMan: Summary of the article:  "Obama is acting rationally, and is willing to make concessions in the best interests of the country.  But that means it's his fault the Repbulicans are disorganised and refusing to do anything productive.  I have no idea if its even possible to solve this, but Obama needs to do it somehow."

When you are the only adult in the situation it is your responsibility.


But in this case, the "children" have the law of the land behind them.  Obama can't just executive order the Republicans to come to the table and make concessions.
 
2013-02-28 01:07:37 PM

BilltheThrill: Kittypie070: BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?


Ha!  And I'm the one they accuse of projection!  Keep telling the emperor how lovely his new clothes are.  St. Obama will take care of all of your problems so you don't need to take care of yourself.


You're even more boring than the other weak-ass alt from this morning.
 
2013-02-28 01:17:54 PM

BilltheThrill: Kittypie070: BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?


Ha!  And I'm the one they accuse of projection!  Keep telling the emperor how lovely his new clothes are.  St. Obama will take care of all of your problems so you don't need to take care of yourself.


Yawn. Do you have anything of any substance to say or just childish bullshiat? Oh right I forgot who I was talking to. Nevermind, didn't mean to interrupt milk and nap time.
 
2013-02-28 01:22:35 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: usernameguy: More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.

Indeed.

Hey "both sides are bad" assholes, why don't you cite examples of Democrats dicking over the rest of us? I can cite quite a few elected officials/legislators with "R" after their name doing this.


Wanting to spend money in the name of helping people is what all "D"s do that is "Bad".  Problem is they can't trust corporations to take care of people (any attempt to do so would be blocked by the "R"s) so they need to make government bigger to do it themselves.  Beyond that they are unable to prioritize their charity and generosity to their constituents and voters because they are unable to convince those very same people that certain issues take priority over other issues.  So the "D"s just want to push all well intentioned issues to the top so that they can have it all without any regard to spending.

Problem is that "D"s don't realize that some good intentions have potentially indirect long term bad results and the "R"s don't realize that some good intentioned long term results have indirect short term bad results.

/Sometimes bad comes from good and good comes from bad.Those issues turn into talking points and rhetoric.
 
2013-02-28 01:33:15 PM

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: BilltheThrill: Kittypie070: BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?


Ha!  And I'm the one they accuse of projection!  Keep telling the emperor how lovely his new clothes are.  St. Obama will take care of all of your problems so you don't need to take care of yourself.

Yawn. Do you have anything of any substance to say or just childish bullshiat? Oh right I forgot who I was talking to. Nevermind, didn't mean to interrupt milk and nap time.


Perhaps you need to ask yourself a very important question.  Y U Mad brah?
 
2013-02-28 01:33:43 PM

BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider. noticer of facts.

 
2013-02-28 01:37:21 PM

RedTank: Crotchrocket Slim: usernameguy: More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.

Indeed.

Hey "both sides are bad" assholes, why don't you cite examples of Democrats dicking over the rest of us? I can cite quite a few elected officials/legislators with "R" after their name doing this.

Wanting to spend money in the name of helping people is what all "D"s do that is "Bad".  Problem is they can't trust corporations to take care of people (any attempt to do so would be blocked by the "R"s) so they need to make government bigger to do it themselves.  Beyond that they are unable to prioritize their charity and generosity to their constituents and voters because they are unable to convince those very same people that certain issues take priority over other issues.  So the "D"s just want to push all well intentioned issues to the top so that they can have it all without any regard to spending.

Problem is that "D"s don't realize that some good intentions have potentially indirect long term bad results and the "R"s don't realize that some good intentioned long term results have indirect short term bad results.

/Sometimes bad comes from good and good comes from bad.Those issues turn into talking points and rhetoric.


Fair enough but really, when Teabaggers get elected on "it's the economy stupid!" and then throw nothing but monkey wrenches into getting any economic bills passed and only introduce their own bills that have nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with working slut shaming etc. into law, it's really hard to hate on the Ds as much as the R's. I'd be fine with R's acting like R's if they'd actually act like R's looking to find solutions for us all.
 
2013-02-28 01:41:53 PM
Let me simplify this for everyone.

It takes two to make peace.

It only takes one to make war.

/sad, but true.
 
2013-02-28 01:48:55 PM
Today's "conservatives" are futile, impotent and, culturally, dead. They have nothing to offer and can achieve nothing. They can only help to destroy intellectual standards, to disintegrate thought, to discredit capitalism, and to accelerate this country's uncontested collapse into despair and dictatorship.
- Ayn Rand in "Conservatism: An Obituary"
 
2013-02-28 01:52:09 PM

usernameguy: More "both sides are bad" from the "liberal" media.

 
2013-02-28 01:53:37 PM

BilltheThrill: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: BilltheThrill: Kittypie070: BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?


Ha!  And I'm the one they accuse of projection!  Keep telling the emperor how lovely his new clothes are.  St. Obama will take care of all of your problems so you don't need to take care of yourself.

Yawn. Do you have anything of any substance to say or just childish bullshiat? Oh right I forgot who I was talking to. Nevermind, didn't mean to interrupt milk and nap time.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself a very important question.  Y U Mad brah?


Glorp.  Weedle Mcdooty, flap alongst farthing moof.  Sint troy upwag morn cank long grooble, clame tring frow blaf waddle for them?
 
2013-02-28 02:01:00 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Fair enough but really, when Teabaggers get elected on "it's the economy stupid!" and then throw nothing but monkey wrenches into getting any economic bills passed and only introduce their own bills that have nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with working slut shaming etc. into law, it's really hard to hate on the Ds as much as the R's. I'd be fine with R's acting like R's if they'd actually act like R's looking to find solutions for us all.


I agree, but that's sort of subset of the bigger issue.

A lot of those tea party guys got elected on shaking up Washington and going against the grain.  But really they have absolutely no chance as they stand today because real politics is based upon that ugly word compromise.  So instead of by looking weak on their ideals by compromising they hold strong because they can easily make that case to their radical audience.  "Hey, you elected me to do 100% of this issue but those liberals and moderate "R"s want us to only do 90%??  That extra 10% is what makes this issue so important, we cannot accept anything less!"  Then they get nothing and get to blame it on everyone else.  By holding strong they think they have a higher chance of getting re elected.  If they compromised they fear come next election they could lose their seat to someone equally radical whom defames them for their support of 10% less.

/Just my thoughts...
//Hope my rantings make sense...
 
2013-02-28 02:01:58 PM

BilltheThrill: handouts


Ah, the common clay of the new west.
 
2013-02-28 02:03:49 PM
corn?
 
2013-02-28 02:03:52 PM

I'm sure that this will help our economy!

former NIH director Elias Zerhouni said:

"I think the suddenness of it and the depth of it would be a disaster for research, which is not an activity that you can turn on and off from year to year. It's an activity that takes time. The most   impacted  are the young, new investigator scientists, who are coming into science, and will now abandon the field of science. There will be a generational gap created.
An average grant is five  years long, because science is like that. So think: That means that every one year, only 20 percent of the grants come to their end. So any one year, NIH only has 20 percent  of its money available for new grants. At NIH, about half of the grants get terminated at five years, but the rest get to be continued, as you don't want to throw away good research. So the half of it that's left has to go to very promising areas of science, and you have 10 percent left.
If you take 8 percent of that 10 percent, it's going to come from new science, new people, young investigators; we are going to maim our innovation capabilities if you do these abrupt deep cuts at  NIH. It will  impact science for generations to come."
 
2013-02-28 02:12:34 PM

clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.


THIS
the dems have little to nothing to lose here and EVERYTHING to gain.
FFS, they should put the leadership of the house on the table. get the few rational gop house members needed for a majority and vote boner out of power.

imagine the uproar and entertainment if that happened??
it would also "solve" this and those other problems ...
debt ceiling "problem" - gone
rational taxes (say back to reagan/bush/clinton levels) - passed and signed

so yah, GOP obstructionism is all about making the black guy look bad and helping their rich friends
 
2013-02-28 02:18:26 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: If the Democrats would just acquiese and let us eliminate the capital gains tax inheritance tax, minimum wage, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, then they need to help us institute a "fair tax" on all income between 100 and 100,000 dollars. Then they need to finally admit that life begins at insertion. Then we will pass a bill that postpones the sequester for 90 days.

But they refuse to compromise.


this would solve all the problems in the world. it would be paradise, heaven on earth.
I am surprised that the GOP has failed to sell this message!!
the best part is plan would balance the budget and allow raising defense spending to at least a trillion a year.
hell there would probably be a surplus, allowing us to pay off the debt in 2-3 years !!!

/lol - I love this game
 
2013-02-28 02:24:47 PM
President Barack Obama is now representing the situation

www.officialsituation.com

Unavailable for comment
 
2013-02-28 02:27:43 PM

Freeballin: Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?  Are people too stupid?  If these people would self-identify their party correctly, people would know who to vote for.  Nothing wrong with being from the CDU, SPD, FDP etc., (German political parties, of which there are more than two), as long as people know what their values are and who they're voting for.  It would help America immensely IMO.  People who want to vote for super religious fundies would know what party to vote for.  People who want conservative but not overly religious would know.  And so on.

The obvious problem would be that they would have to share power and stick to an ideology which isn't currently the way, but that's exactly why we need it.  Wanna run as a Tea Partier?  Great, go for it, be open about it, but if they vote straight Repub, and not straight Tea Party you won't get their vote.  It's so bass ackwards to assume that people can only identify with one of two parties today, and more parties would give the libertarians a chance as well.


because our form of representative democracy naturally devolves to a 2 party system. there have been studies showing that this is the case. (india is one strange counter example)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-party_system#Causes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law

So without changing our voting system, we are unlikely to ever have multiple-parties. esp as long as the two parties have complete control over ballot access.
(you dont think so? why should a nation candidate need to get on the ballot in all 50 states? why wouldn't it be automatic with a minimal threshold?)
 
2013-02-28 02:39:28 PM
Article's certainly half right...

/don't recall Democrats declaring that they'd rather crash the economy than see a Republican get elected for a second term...
 
2013-02-28 02:51:32 PM

Empty Matchbook: Article's certainly half right...

/don't recall Democrats declaring that they'd rather crash the economy than see a Republican get elected for a second term...


BOTHSIDESAREBAD!!
 
2013-02-28 03:17:47 PM

BilltheThrill: If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.


You're right. We need to raise revenue so we can pay our bills.
 
2013-02-28 03:27:51 PM
What I don't get is that if the Rebulicans are trying to make sure that the top 1% keep all the tax advantages by basically doing what they are doing......

Don't the top 1% see that this will eventually have a negative effect on the economy and will hurt their bottom line?

Are they betting that they will suceed?

And that the potential gains far outweigh the most likely losses?
 
2013-02-28 03:42:17 PM
I say let them happen, I'm tired of going from fake crisis to fake crisis because congress likes putting off work, not doing work, extending debt limits a few weeks at a time and the like. I'm tired of living in what is effectively a continual crisis brought on by the party not in power refusing to let even the most basic functions of government progress unhindered. Aside from this, better the sequester than the debt limit argument, we can't keep this idiocy up... better to work our shiat out now than keep waiting.
 
2013-02-28 03:46:17 PM
One sign of a crappy article is that the entire thing can be reduced to a single sentence without losing much information

Obama should negotiate with terrorists so that he'll still have terrorists to negotiate with.
 
2013-02-28 03:48:34 PM

BilltheThrill: Kittypie070: BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?


Ha!  And I'm the one they accuse of projection!  Keep telling the emperor how lovely his new clothes are.  St. Obama will take care of all of your problems so you don't need to take care of yourself.


Oh.....kay, I shall very carefully mark you down as an absolutely abject Obama worshiper who also burns incense to him every week and has a gold-and-hologram-foil framed portait of him in the living room.

I mean, he IS National Command Authority and can set off the nukes any old time he wants, and you baggers just adore AUTHORITY and DOOMSDAY, don't ya? Riiight??
 
2013-02-28 03:48:44 PM

firefly212: Aside from this, better the sequester than the debt limit argument, we can't keep this idiocy up... better to work our shiat out now than keep waiting.


I think we'll be re-visiting the debt limit argument shortly, regardless of how the sequester shakes out.
 
2013-02-28 04:13:46 PM

netcentric: "Well, Jay Carney, explain this to me: The most imperial president in American history, a man who boasts that he will rule by Executive Action if Congress refuses to pass legislation he favors, can't figure out how to direct spending cuts in a way that does the least harm to the American people?....I can't wait."     -   Bill Frezza   Forbes


Anytime someone describes the president (any president) as "the most" anything, I stop reading.
 
2013-02-28 04:23:21 PM

qorkfiend: firefly212: Aside from this, better the sequester than the debt limit argument, we can't keep this idiocy up... better to work our shiat out now than keep waiting.

I think we'll be re-visiting the debt limit argument shortly, regardless of how the sequester shakes out.


Any sequestration agreement should include a debt limit agreement. We should signal that we're done moving from one crisis to the next, that this whole hostage-taking strategy is done.
 
2013-02-28 07:17:14 PM
I'd just like to suggest we issue each of these Congresscritters one nuclear weapon + DoD approved trigger each and let them have it out that way.
 
2013-02-28 08:44:11 PM

firefly212: qorkfiend: firefly212: Aside from this, better the sequester than the debt limit argument, we can't keep this idiocy up... better to work our shiat out now than keep waiting.

I think we'll be re-visiting the debt limit argument shortly, regardless of how the sequester shakes out.

Any sequestration agreement should include a debt limit agreement. We should signal that we're done moving from one crisis to the next, that this whole hostage-taking strategy is done.


It should, but I have serious doubts that the House GOP agrees.
 
2013-03-01 12:01:54 AM

Evil High Priest: Empty Matchbook: Article's certainly half right...

/don't recall Democrats declaring that they'd rather crash the economy than see a Republican get elected for a second term...

BOTHSIDESAREBAD!!


RIGHT! How foolish of me to forget!
 
2013-03-01 04:26:48 AM
let me tell you, "both sides are bad" is the most useless piece of neurosis inducing crap i've ever heard.

you either support rampant unchecked greed as a the sole marker of worth, or you think we should apply careful planning to avoid unneeded suffering because the geniuses of the next generation could come from anywhere. anywhere at all.

you're one or the other, and you can't be both.No matter how "pat" it all sounds to you, you're just another useless jackoff when you spout trash that attempts to make other people as lazy and uncaring as you yourself are.

/we all know what you types want. you want to say it's okay as long as it ain't happening  to you. we get it.
 
2013-03-01 05:13:16 AM
Um....can we just gang up on the both sides are bad yappers and like dogpile on them?
 
2013-03-01 10:16:34 AM

emotion_lotion: What I don't get is that if the Rebulicans are trying to make sure that the top 1% keep all the tax advantages by basically doing what they are doing......

Don't the top 1% see that this will eventually have a negative effect on the economy and will hurt their bottom line?

Are they betting that they will suceed?

And that the potential gains far outweigh the most likely losses?


The 1% are the result of generations of "businessmen/women" who don't have the slightest idea how to actually run a business. All their actions are about maximizing short-term profits for shareholders rather than looking at the long-term strategies that will pay well in the future. That's why they "right-size," outsource and demand consessions from labor even though they're making record profits. Tjey may think of themselves as Rockefellers but they're just Gordon Gekkos.
 
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