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(Huffington Post)   "The level of enmity and distrust here between Democrats and Republicans is as deep as it has been in a long time -- and both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 138
    More: Scary, Democrats, Republican  
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1072 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Feb 2013 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-28 10:55:29 AM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


In other words: stating the obvious?
 
2013-02-28 10:57:02 AM
kumanoki:
That's the entire point of the article. At what point does the blame encompass all sides so thoroughly that the people revolt against the entirety of the government because of the inaction?

got me.  I do know that our society has some pretty serious issues.  the divide between rich and poor is growing far to wide again.  if that imbalance isn't addressed, bad things happen.
 
2013-02-28 10:57:31 AM
Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.
 
2013-02-28 11:00:03 AM
Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?  Are people too stupid?  If these people would self-identify their party correctly, people would know who to vote for.  Nothing wrong with being from the CDU, SPD, FDP etc., (German political parties, of which there are more than two), as long as people know what their values are and who they're voting for.  It would help America immensely IMO.  People who want to vote for super religious fundies would know what party to vote for.  People who want conservative but not overly religious would know.  And so on.

The obvious problem would be that they would have to share power and stick to an ideology which isn't currently the way, but that's exactly why we need it.  Wanna run as a Tea Partier?  Great, go for it, be open about it, but if they vote straight Repub, and not straight Tea Party you won't get their vote.  It's so bass ackwards to assume that people can only identify with one of two parties today, and more parties would give the libertarians a chance as well.
 
2013-02-28 11:02:26 AM
That is one, long concern troll piece, laden with "Both sides are bad," and a sprinkling of, "this is bad news...for Obama."

They may be right about that -- at least in the short run -- but even if they are, where will that get the White House? If the GOP is dragged to the negotiating table, will that lead to a so-called Grand Bargain? Will any resulting deal short-circuit the other pending disruptions: a vote on the regular budget March 27, another debt ceiling vote this summer? Will it do anything to ease the gridlock that has turned Washington into a never-ending standoff?

Or will it just make the atmosphere all the more toxic, resentful and angry?


And later...

These points are near and dear to the hearts of White House spinners. They make it abundantly clear that the president has not been a bad actor on deficits and budgets and that he is not solely, or necessarily even primarily, to blame for the mess we are in.

But all of this furious spinning and blame-placing misses the point. The president and his people can either keep piling up points in a game they have already won, or figure out a way forward at a time when the rest of the world increasingly is inclined to doubt American leadership for a host of other reasons.

No one claims to know what that way forward is. But "Forward" was Obama's winning campaign slogan. So that is the situation we are in.


Oh those poor, poor Republicans who pinned everything on defeating Obama and lost. Those poor entitled, privileged bastards bereft of ideas and anything other than opposition for opposition's sake.
 
2013-02-28 11:02:45 AM

clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.


I don't think the GOP would even notice if/when they lose.  look what happened to Romney - complete devastation.  lost the white house, lost the electoral college by a landslide.  lost ground in the House, lost ground in the senate. lost key races at the state level around the country.  lost to gay marriage and lost to cannabis legalization efforts in two states.  The Republican response?  ATTACK ON ALL FRONTS!

they're nuts.
 
2013-02-28 11:04:33 AM

clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.


Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.
 
2013-02-28 11:05:56 AM

Weaver95: clambam: Having gone over the cliff yet again as it were, the Democrats would be foolish to settle for anything less than total victory now. A compromise will only be seen as a sign of weakness from the right, and they'll be ready to start this whole mishigoss up again when the next debt ceiling vote arrives. They must be utterly crushed, put in their place, humiliated, so that the country's business can proceed. God knows that's what they'd like to do to the Democrats; do unto others before they can do unto you.

I don't think the GOP would even notice if/when they lose.  look what happened to Romney - complete devastation.  lost the white house, lost the electoral college by a landslide.  lost ground in the House, lost ground in the senate. lost key races at the state level around the country.  lost to gay marriage and lost to cannabis legalization efforts in two states.  The Republican response?  ATTACK ON ALL FRONTS!

they're nuts.


"The level of activity that we see today from a military standpoint, I think, will clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency." - Vice President Dick Cheney, 2005

Cruel, cruel irony. It's delicious.
 
2013-02-28 11:06:07 AM

Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.


yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.
 
2013-02-28 11:06:54 AM

GiantRex: BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.

Getting creative today, I see. 8/10


Agree. 8/10.
 
2013-02-28 11:08:15 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.


It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."
 
2013-02-28 11:11:56 AM

verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."


verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."


i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the Republican can and will do in their death throes.  these are people who will not go gently into that good night.  they'll want to hurt as much of the country as they can.
 
2013-02-28 11:12:23 AM

kumanoki: That's the entire point of the article. At what point does the blame encompass all sides so thoroughly that the people revolt against the entirety of the government because of the inaction?


This reduces to the GOP complaint of "WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP ME???"  While the Dems are guilty of letting the GOP get away with far too much, it is also true that it shouldn't be their job to vigilantly keep watch over a crowd of psychopaths so they don't hurt themselves and others.  I blame the GOP for being insane and the Dems for being too kind to them, but that isn't the same thing as saying "both sides are in danger of underestimating the other's willingness to let destructive things happen to the country".  The GOP simply shouldn't be playing a game where it becomes the responsibility of the Dems to keep them from destroying everything.  The blame rests on them.
 
2013-02-28 11:13:31 AM

FlashHarry: the climate of partisanship in washington is 90 percent due to republicans and 10 percent due to democrats... so both sides are bad. got it.


If two people rib a bank and one of them shoots one person and the other shoots 9 , yeah they are both bad.
 
2013-02-28 11:14:34 AM
FTFA: Will any resulting deal short-circuit the other pending disruptions: a vote on the regular budget March 27, another debt ceiling vote this summer? Will it do anything to ease the gridlock that has turned Washington into a never-ending standoff? Or will it just make the atmosphere all the more toxic, resentful and angry?

Hey Washington, we don't give a fark if your frat party is a little awkward because one side demands Budweiser while the other wants Amstel Light. Tell your corporate overlords to STFU for a while and work through the shiat that needs to get done.
 
2013-02-28 11:17:57 AM

Freeballin: Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?


because federal congressional campaigns cost a TON of money. there are more than 2 parties in the local level, but the money needed to win a federal seat is a big barrier to entry for the smaller parties.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:13 AM

not5am: Freeballin: Why can't we have a reasonable number of political parties?

because federal congressional campaigns cost a TON of money. there are more than 2 parties in the local level, but the money needed to win a federal seat is a big barrier to entry for the smaller parties.


we could fix that, if we wanted.  But we're not going to do that.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

give me doughnuts: BilltheThrill: BillCo: Well, it doesn't really help that the President of the United States, who should be trying to bring together the political parties, is blaming the Republicans for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to meteorites hitting the earth.

Obama, the great divider.

To be fair, you cannot blame Obama for a lack of leadership, when he has none to begin with.  Since everyone in Washington knows he does not legitimately hold the Office of President of the United States of America, no one pays any attention to him and his empty suit.  The real culprit here is teh Democratic party, which won a narrow victory in November through shady voting practices by the coastal elites and illegal immigrants, and are now acting like they have cart blounche to spend this country into oblivia.

If your looking for someone to blame, blame the group that wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.


Please try make your alts a little bit harder to spot. It's good that you didn't just call this one "BillCo 2.0", but a little effort would be apperciated..

Look, I know this is hard for many Dumbocrats to understand, but your left-wing, selfish, blame everyone ideology only exists in echo chambers liek this.  Don't be so shocked that most Americans (most English speaking Americans, anyways) do not share your blame America, punish the successful, spend spend spend ideas on governance.


It is remarkable that when two people exhibit the slightest bit of loosidity, you all immediately think that it is one person playing a trick on you.  The only one tricking you is your usurping messiah, and he's got you on teh hook bad.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:41 AM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


In a word, yes.

Only a bunch of knuckle-dragging morons would threaten to default on our credit.  And this is why we are where we are today.
 
2013-02-28 11:20:45 AM

Weaver95: verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on solely due to kafka-esque districting maps? Their opinion really doesn't matter. The country has spoken. Demographics have spoken. Facts have spoken. What you see now is literally the American conservative movement (As we know it today) in its "death throes."

verbaltoxin: Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.

It doesn't matter. That's what I'm gradually realizing. The right's response simply doesn't matter. What does it matter when demographically, the right wing is doomed? What does it matter when so many Republicans hang on ...


Perhaps they might. They'll certainly try, and they're doing a ton of damage at the state level. At the national level though, they're pretty inert right now. I mean, what has all of Cantor's, Boehner's, McConnell's and other Republican leaders' posturing amounted to, exactly? They promised a fight over the debt ceiling this year. It didn't happen. They promised to fight tax increases back in December. They lost. These people have promised absolute resistance, and have crippled and bent to compromise each time - even if the liberal side hasn't been 100% happy with the results, or Obama in particular.

So now the sequester is on its way again. So? It took effect, kinda, in early January and in overtime, Congress kicked the can down the road a little more. What's to say that won't happen again? We've already learned these crises are all manufactured. If the sequester was that bad, why hasn't there been a deal yet? I agree it'll be painful, and the sequester contains poorly-timed, poorly-implemented and poorly-guided cuts. Yet it seems to me there's not as much fire as there is smoke in this instance.

We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

Hence I am expecting we'll see another deal that delays some of the sequester again, and we wind up with a deal that implements some token, planned cuts to ease the pain of those cuts that aren't delayed. We'll get a compromise. Not one Democrats will be totally happy with, but it'll be enough to once again prove the Republicans haven't any tactics other than stammer, refuse, posture and eventually give up.
 
2013-02-28 11:21:54 AM
BilltheThrill:
It is remarkable that when two people exhibit the slightest bit of loosidity, you all immediately think that it is one person playing a trick on you.  The only one tricking you is your usurping messiah, and he's got you on teh hook bad.

lucidity.  the word is spelled 'lucidity'.

at least we can tell you apart by your spelling mistakes.
 
2013-02-28 11:23:29 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play: Crazy as it sounds, I'd welcome the sequester cuts happening.  Just so when Republicans try to blame Obama for it he can respond by saying "They agreed to it."

Maybe I'm not in the loop, but sometimes the Administration needs to hit the GOP where it hurts.  That is:  Put it in big bold letters that the Republicans asked for this, agreed to this and made a big show of how they liked this.  It's like they need to be in campaign mode for the rest of the term.

yeah but will it matter?  the GOP rank and file will STILL blame Obama.  facts are flat out ignored by some of those folks.  it's positively Orwellian.


That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.
 
2013-02-28 11:25:39 AM
Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.
 
2013-02-28 11:32:40 AM

verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.


The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.
 
2013-02-28 11:35:17 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.


Remember how "liberal" is such a dirty word that even people like myself can't even utter to admit that they're liberal and proud of it?  There will come a day that conservatives (as a whole) will be subject to the same treatment.  That day's coming sooner than you think.
 
2013-02-28 11:36:25 AM

Weaver95: Rwa2play:
That's fine, the election showed that the people were listening to some extent.  Not just those on the left, but those in the center and even some on the right did not like the message the GOP conveyed.  The GOP still convinced, CONVINCED mind you, that they're message is still the right one.  They're willing to be destroyed because any admittance that their message was not received would be the death-blow for the "coalition" within the GOP.

i'm just concerned about the amount of damage the GOP is likely to cause once they realize they are done as a viable national party.


I'll reiterate what I said earlier: the American conservative movement as we know it is in its death throes. Conservativism isn't. As long as there is privilege and classism in America, there will be conservativism. It will bear a new face one day, but it'll be around.
 
2013-02-28 11:39:31 AM

Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.


I'd argue that the most lasting damage done by the Republicans is to destroy the faith the public has in the institutions of government. That is a far more pernicious attack than political bickering between opposition parties.
 
2013-02-28 11:43:01 AM

BilltheThrill: It is remarkable that when two people exhibit the slightest bit of loosidity, you all immediately think that it is one person playing a trick on you.  The only one tricking you is your usurping messiah, and he's got you on teh hook bad.



Boooooorrrrrrrrriiiiinnnnnggggggg.
Try some new material. Preferably something this side of 2008.
 
2013-02-28 11:45:05 AM

qorkfiend: Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.

I'd argue that the most lasting damage done by the Republicans is to destroy the faith the public has in the institutions of government. That is a far more pernicious attack than political bickering between opposition parties.


It's almost as if the GOP is trying to drown it in a bathtub.
 
2013-02-28 11:46:27 AM

Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.


This.
It reminds me of divorces which are truly nasty businesses.  The party who "wins" or suffers less from a divorce is typically the party which approaches it the most like a game.  The party who is emotionally detached enough to approach it like a game, is the one with the less to lose.

Long story short, the GOP will be pissing blood at the end of this.
 
2013-02-28 11:49:28 AM

qorkfiend: Weaver95: Slaves2Darkness:

Anyway this won't break the country, it will suck mightily, but it just might break the GOP.

the republicans can (and no doubt will) do a LOT of damage in the process though.  and what happens once the Republicans self destruct?  our government cannot function without two parties.  the entire system of government only works because it's predicated on the existence of TWO political parties - the Republicans and Democrats.  not three, not one...two.  without those two propping each other up, things promise to get even more chaotic.

I'd argue that the most lasting damage done by the Republicans is to destroy the faith the public has in the institutions of government. That is a far more pernicious attack than political bickering between opposition parties.


CSB time.

Recall how earlier in the thread, I mentioned how Republicans have done grave damage at the state level. My family has been involved with unions going back over 70 years. Currently my father works at a regional level for the union. He therefore deals with both businessmen and politicians constantly. He says it's almost impossible to get Democrats elected in his state. The populace, mostly rural, religious and Republican outside the two, major urban zones, is terrified of electing a Democrat. They don't care that it would be a Democrat from Missouri - certainly one who'd skew centrist on most issues, and even rightward on some others - it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it. That's what huge swaths of Missourians literally believe, and it's reflected currently in Missouri's heavily Republican, horribly inept legislature.

It won't take much searching to find Missouri's Congress bearing the same marks dragging down other red states: cutting taxes, running deficits, off-setting debt by gutting state programs, introducing creationism into education standards, reducing abortion access, giving favors to businesses (See the puppy mill law they repealed), catering to the religious right, and turning on their own (See Zach Wyatt after he came out). And now they're set to become a right to work state, a blow my father fears. Union presence in Missouri is small and mostly limited to the STL and KC regions. Right to work effectively tilts the state's interest against unionization, and puts labor at disadvantage to business. Yet the rubes are lining up and waiting to welcome it.

That is where the Republican Party is still in power, and that is the damage they are doing. If there's a new fight, it's retaking state governments from the claws of right wing fanaticism.
 
2013-02-28 11:58:31 AM
If the Democrats would just acquiese and let us eliminate the capital gains tax inheritance tax, minimum wage, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, then they need to help us institute a "fair tax" on all income between 100 and 100,000 dollars. Then they need to finally admit that life begins at insertion. Then we will pass a bill that postpones the sequester for 90 days.

But they refuse to compromise.
 
2013-02-28 12:00:37 PM
If you want to find out the root of this partisan dysfunction, read The Broken Branch and It's Even Worse Than it Looks, by thomas mann and norm ornstein of the brookings institution and the american enterprise institute (hardly bastions of fringe liberalism).
 
2013-02-28 12:02:04 PM

mrshowrules: Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.

This.
It reminds me of divorces which are truly nasty businesses.  The party who "wins" or suffers less from a divorce is typically the party which approaches it the most like a game.  The party who is emotionally detached enough to approach it like a game, is the one with the less to lose.

Long story short, the GOP will be pissing blood at the end of this.


Either just pissing blood or hooked up to life support machines because they're brain-damaged.  Verbaltoxin said it best:  the ideology of Conservatism will still exist.  The term itself however, will be cloaked under new catchphrases because any mention of someone being called a conservative will be looked at like he's a political leper.
 
2013-02-28 12:02:55 PM

Weaver95: we could fix that, if we wanted.  But we're not going to do that.


nope. that would take money to get people in office that's willing and able to change it. the only thing left at this point is to wait for both parties to self destruct and splinter.
 
2013-02-28 12:03:34 PM
When you look at Illinois and Michigan you can begin to see how nipping this problem in the bud makes good sense.
 
2013-02-28 12:04:32 PM

Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.



Gee, it is almost like the fate of the entire country mirrors the fate of the entire freaking country.  The end of the GOp coincideds with the growing-minority populace demanding service after service that we are unable to pay for, and the group of people trying to, you know, actually pay for what we can afford, are being marginalized or vilified for having the oddacity of demanding we only pay for what we need and make people take care of themselves.

Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything would turn their backs on the party who insists we stop with the handouts and spending.  Yep, nice "victory" you have their libtards.  Hope you have either a lot of gold or corn (like me), cause you're going to need it really soon.
 
2013-02-28 12:08:18 PM

BilltheThrill: Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything


lulz
 
2013-02-28 12:09:42 PM

BilltheThrill: Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.


Gee, it is almost like the fate of the entire country mirrors the fate of the entire freaking country.  The end of the GOp coincideds with the growing-minority populace demanding service after service that we are unable to pay for, and the group of people trying to, you know, actually pay for what we can afford, are being marginalized or vilified for having the oddacity of demanding we only pay for what we need and make people take care of themselves.

Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything would turn their backs on the party who insists we stop with the handouts and spending.  Yep, nice "victory" you have their libtards.  Hope you have either a lot of gold or corn (like me), cause you're going to need it really soon.


I like how you're trying to throw a libertarian bent towards this...but your thoughts betray your intent.
 
2013-02-28 12:13:11 PM

BilltheThrill: Rwa2play: verbaltoxin: We've learned the Republican way in DC is to stammer, posture, refuse and then, just as the last second ticks off the clock, give up. The White House has learned that they can do this again and again, extracting a little more from the Republicans each time. That is the true power Obama has in his second term - he can play the battle of wills, and take a little more from every manufactured crisis the GOP sets the country towards.

The GOP bet the farm that Obama would be upended in 2012, Bet. The. Farm.  Now, Obama has nothing to protect, he's playing with house money; it's the Republicans that have to protect what they have.  Worse: they have to do it with on one end, the TPers wanting unequivocal support for their causes, regardless of what it does for the country; on the other, the growing demographic shift towards the Democrats.  Balancing those two forces out is (at best) treacherous for the GOP for the future.


Gee, it is almost like the fate of the entire country mirrors the fate of the entire freaking country.  The end of the GOp coincideds with the growing-minority populace demanding service after service that we are unable to pay for, and the group of people trying to, you know, actually pay for what we can afford, are being marginalized or vilified for having the oddacity of demanding we only pay for what we need and make people take care of themselves.

Who would have thought that a country that demands free everything would turn their backs on the party who insists we stop with the handouts and spending.  Yep, nice "victory" you have their libtards.  Hope you have either a lot of gold or corn (like me), cause you're going to need it really soon.


www.artfire.com
Projection.
 
2013-02-28 12:18:09 PM

netcentric: I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.
7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?


/spent more time threatening journalists


I see the check cleared for March and you're getting warmed up.  Congratulations on finding employment in these dire economic times.

Truly, you are blessed.
 
2013-02-28 12:26:55 PM

skipjack: This is the fark politics tab, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


This is [strike]the politics tab[/strike] America, so everything is naturally the fault of the GOP.


\too easy because its too true.
 
2013-02-28 12:29:42 PM
verbaltoxin:
I'll reiterate what I said earlier: the American conservative movement as we know it is in its death throes. Conservativism isn't. As long as there is privilege and classism in America, there will be conservativism. It will bear a new face one day, but it'll be around.

Just so long as the dominionist theocrats don't ever get control of the US government.  that would be the end of this country.
 
2013-02-28 12:32:45 PM

verbaltoxin: it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it.


Stories like this bring to mind the studies done, where policies are explained without partisan labels attached, and Democratic policies are  heavily favored. Attach "Democrat" to the label, and support is halved. It's mind-boggling.
 
2013-02-28 12:34:55 PM

netcentric: I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.
7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?


/spent more time threatening journalists


Are you sure you put enough white space in your comment? I think you need more white space.
 
2013-02-28 12:37:23 PM

qorkfiend: verbaltoxin: it's that Democrats are liberals, and liberals are bad, and that's all there is to it.

Stories like this bring to mind the studies done, where policies are explained without partisan labels attached, and Democratic policies are  heavily favored. Attach "Democrat" to the label, and support is halved. It's mind-boggling.


It's conditioning. Long, steady conditioning, from the pulpit and campaign podium. And now from a 24 hours news cycle representing only one viewpoint, customized and sold to a thirsty audience.
 
2013-02-28 12:40:37 PM
BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?
 
2013-02-28 12:40:47 PM

netcentric: I commend the WH for having the President go to Capitol Hill Wed. to meet with Congress.
7 minutes he spent.    About the exact time required for a photo-op.    Amirite?


/spent more time threatening journalists



You may want to check the next thread up from this one.
 
2013-02-28 12:47:56 PM

Kittypie070: BilltheThrill 2013-02-28 11:20:15 AM

usurping messiah

Why do you tea party people keep insisting that he's some kind of divine figure?

Do you worship him?



Ha!  And I'm the one they accuse of projection!  Keep telling the emperor how lovely his new clothes are.  St. Obama will take care of all of your problems so you don't need to take care of yourself.
 
2013-02-28 12:48:00 PM

PanicMan: Summary of the article:  "Obama is acting rationally, and is willing to make concessions in the best interests of the country.  But that means it's his fault the Repbulicans are disorganised and refusing to do anything productive.  I have no idea if its even possible to solve this, but Obama needs to do it somehow."


When you are the only adult in the situation it is your responsibility.
 
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