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(News.va)   Pope Benedict XVI starts his final day on the job, stuffs as many packs of Post-It pads into his briefcase as he can carry   (news.va) divider line 88
    More: Spiffy, Pope Benedict XVI, pontificate, pope, Post-it, Holy Father, Castel Gandolfo, Vatican Radio  
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1479 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2013 at 8:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-28 09:31:52 AM

Cluckity: He's spending his final days influencing the people who will select the next pope, and he'll stay on as advisor.

Seems like the closest thing a 'celibate' guy could do to creating a dynasty. This is the way rich old dudes insure their sons and daughters continue to lead companies.


Funny thing... back in the olden days popes used to appoint their nephews as cardinals and try and set them up to succeed them - because it was the closest they could manage to hereditary succession. The Latin for nephew is "nepos"; no prizes for guessing what English word derives from this practice.
 
2013-02-28 09:33:01 AM
www.nypost.com

"Now, to get these back to Elvis Costello."
 
2013-02-28 09:33:34 AM
Little known fact: David Bowie's classic "Let's Dance" was written about a sexual encounter he had with Pope John Paul.
 
2013-02-28 09:36:05 AM

UNC_Samurai: And he retires to a square half-kilometer of diplomatic immunity.


Well, he had that beforehand.  If that was all he wanted, he didn't have to retire.  In fact, since there is little historic precedent, aside from Celestine V, for a Pope's voluntary resignation, it is kinda conspicuous for a Pontiff mostly known for being extremely traditional and conservative to do so.

The Pope is the absolute monarch of the Vatican City.

Yes, he's also the Bishop of Rome and thus the leader of the Roman Catholic Church, but under the Lateran Treaty the Vatican is a sovereign state under international law, with the rights and privileges that come with that.  Diplomatic immunity is part of the package deal for being Pope.

Heads of State generally don't have to worry about criminal prosecutions.  If he wanted to just sit in the Vatican and not leave, at all, it's not like there isn't historic precedent.  During the "Prisoner in the Vatican" era, the Pope was confined to the walls of the Vatican City from 1870 to 1929 (a situation ended with the above treaty), because of a conflict between the Papacy and the new Italian government.  They went 59 years (5 papacies) without the Pope even leaving the Vatican.
 
2013-02-28 09:38:50 AM

spentmiles: It's actually the first time a Pope will be able to clean up all the oiled jerk rags, little boy bones, and 3-IN-ONE oil that he stashed in the Most Holy Place.  I guess it's sort of a win-loss for the new Pope.  He'll have to start from scratch, but it'll really be his to own from day one.  It's kind of like replacing someone whose been fired versus quit.  In the fired guy's desk, you might find a bag of Cheetos and maybe some spare Bacos in the keyboard.  The guy who quit took everything of value and probably left a dump in the bottom drawer.  Hypothetical of course, but if you had the chance, would you eat some of the Pope's shiat?


As with scrambled eggs, depends how runny it is.
 
2013-02-28 09:43:49 AM
spentmiles:
Hypothetical of course, but if you had the chance, would you eat some of the Pope's shiat?

A large portion of the world has been eating the Pope's shiat for many centuries now, but personally I think I'll pass, thanks.
 
2013-02-28 09:45:23 AM
Comic most applicable to this pope:
oi45.tinypic.com

Seriously, he creeps me out and sets off my gaydar like crazy.
 
2013-02-28 09:47:25 AM

soakitincider: he did try to make an effort at strengthening orthodox-roman relations, so I applaud him for that. May the next pope continue down that path.


John Paul II also did that, he made mending relations between Catholics and Orthodox Christians a priority of his Papacy.

He talked, at least in vague terms, about reunification of the Orthodox and Catholic churches.  The odds of that actually happening are pretty slim, since the original issue, that of Papal supremacy, is unlikely to be resolved (i.e. the Orthodox Patriarchs recognizing the Bishop of Rome as their superior, or the Bishop of Rome admitting he has no binding authority to compel the Patriarch of Constantinople), but a much closer and less antagonistic relationship was his goal, and he indeed did a lot to mend fences that had been ruined almost a thousand years prior.

He issued the first official apology for the sacking of Constantinople in 1204.

John Paul II also worked on mending relations with the Anglicans.  His biggest disappointment in that regard was when the Church of England decided to start ordaining women, which he held as a major impediment to Catholic/Anglican reunification.
 
2013-02-28 09:47:26 AM
Not Post-its, Subby. He's stuffing alter boys.
 
2013-02-28 09:52:41 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Exit interview?

Popes don't resign.
DIplomatic immunity, eh?
Sounds like a good gig.


Someone with good 'shoop skillz should replace Arjen Rudd's face in Lethal Weapon 2 with the Pope's when he's holding up his ID at the end.

/DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITYYYYYYYYYYYYY
//*BLAM* It's just been revoked
 
2013-02-28 09:53:12 AM
How long does this process take?  I feel like it's pope month in the news.
 
2013-02-28 10:10:22 AM

St. Snuff: He is definitely not going to throw his ring into the fires of Mordor.

[i50.tinypic.com image 400x235]


His ring was only on fire during his first year in the seminary. Then it was someone else's turn in the barrel.
 
2013-02-28 10:25:24 AM
He's culpable.  He gets to retire - I wonder how the folks who were molested, who can't retire from that memory, feel about that.  He had the authority to clean house - he didn't.  He can burn with the rest of the pedophile priests.
 
2013-02-28 10:26:19 AM
RT @Pontifex BEER O'CLOCK MUTHAS
 
2013-02-28 10:29:07 AM

poorcku: oryx: One day you're infallible, the next day you're not. How does that work?

Reading might help you but then again, I am not entirely convinced that it works on people with blinders on.


But Catholics, who are still perfectly willing to accept moral guidance from people with a long history of enabling kiddy rape, they're perfectly rational and open-minded, right?
 
2013-02-28 10:36:38 AM
No Such Agency:
spentmiles:
Hypothetical of course, but if you had the chance, would you eat some of the Pope's shiat?

A large portion of the world has been eating the Pope's shiat for many centuries now, but personally I think I'll pass, thanks.


Holy shiat
 
2013-02-28 10:38:41 AM
Was overheard saying "At 12:01, I am soooo gonna jack off!"
 
2013-02-28 10:41:12 AM
When someone states that they have to be retired from being infallible, that's that.  "Oh no, Your Holiness! You're wrong and infallible!"
 
2013-02-28 11:12:22 AM
www.ihavenothing.org

Just more time to do what he really loves.
 
2013-02-28 11:16:42 AM
GTFO!
 
2013-02-28 11:26:23 AM

SwiftFox: When someone states that they have to be retired from being infallible, that's that.  "Oh no, Your Holiness! You're wrong and infallible!"


Actually, Catholic dogma states that the pope is only infallible when he decrees from the throne of St. Peter. A little know fact, even among Catholics.
 
2013-02-28 11:41:30 AM

JackieRabbit: SwiftFox: When someone states that they have to be retired from being infallible, that's that.  "Oh no, Your Holiness! You're wrong and infallible!"

Actually, Catholic dogma states that the pope is only infallible when he decrees from the throne of St. Peter. A little know fact, even among Catholics.


Yup, and that's only ever been explicitly invoked once, to establish the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

In other words, the only time

There are a lot of rumors that John Paul II was going to invoke Infallibility to say that women cannot ever be ordained to any holy order, ever, but his advisors talked him out of it saying that it wouldn't change anything and would just create scandal and controversy and drive people from the church.

. . .the fact that it's well established that women were ordained to the Diaconate from antiquity until the 12th century aside.
 
2013-02-28 12:07:46 PM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: But Catholics, who are still perfectly willing to accept moral guidance from people with a long history of enabling kiddy rape, they're perfectly rational and open-minded, right?


Where I come from, the Catholic Church played a crucial part in the fall of communism. It has helped people, families go through sadistic times at the hands of communist leaders. They razed buildings, eradicated traditions and put people in jail for thought crimes. Scandals come and go, but your holy atheistic state has brought more suffering on families like mine than you could ever imagine. So yeah, I have more faith in the Church than in the Government.
 
2013-02-28 12:10:34 PM

Silverstaff: JackieRabbit: SwiftFox: When someone states that they have to be retired from being infallible, that's that.  "Oh no, Your Holiness! You're wrong and infallible!"

Actually, Catholic dogma states that the pope is only infallible when he decrees from the throne of St. Peter. A little know fact, even among Catholics.

Yup, and that's only ever been explicitly invoked once, to establish the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

In other words, the only time

There are a lot of rumors that John Paul II was going to invoke Infallibility to say that women cannot ever be ordained to any holy order, ever, but his advisors talked him out of it saying that it wouldn't change anything and would just create scandal and controversy and drive people from the church.

. . .the fact that it's well established that women were ordained to the Diaconate from antiquity until the 12th century aside.


It's still happening...
 
2013-02-28 12:44:49 PM

sno man: Silverstaff: JackieRabbit: SwiftFox: When someone states that they have to be retired from being infallible, that's that.  "Oh no, Your Holiness! You're wrong and infallible!"

Actually, Catholic dogma states that the pope is only infallible when he decrees from the throne of St. Peter. A little know fact, even among Catholics.

Yup, and that's only ever been explicitly invoked once, to establish the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

In other words, the only time

There are a lot of rumors that John Paul II was going to invoke Infallibility to say that women cannot ever be ordained to any holy order, ever, but his advisors talked him out of it saying that it wouldn't change anything and would just create scandal and controversy and drive people from the church.

. . .the fact that it's well established that women were ordained to the Diaconate from antiquity until the 12th century aside.

It's still happening...


Okay, clarification then, ordaining women who are actually recognized by the Roman Catholic Church as validly and lawfully ordained.

I knew about that organization, there was a big stink around here locally a few years ago when they held an ordination ceremony at the local Unitarian Universalist church, leading the local Catholic Diocese to make many public proclamations about how their ordination is not valid and everyone involved is considered excommunicated from the Catholic Church for even trying.

The Holy See of the Catholic Church has never, in verifiable and recorded history acknowledged the ordination of women to the priesthood or the consecration of women as bishops. . .however, they did regularly ordain women as Deacons, but it slowly fell from favor in the 5th and 6th century to the point that by the 11th and 12th centuries when the practice died out the only female deacons were cloistered nuns. . .and the Church collectively tried to forget it ever happened.
 
2013-02-28 12:50:28 PM

NeoBad: If I was him, I think I'd be laughing all the way home and glad to be the fark out of there.

REALLY liked him and sorry to see him go..they will probably elect some black dude the next pope who will promptly fly to the USA, hob nob with our englorious leader and declare that catholics love baptists or some such nonsense


3/10
 
2013-02-28 12:58:35 PM
Hey! Pope! Remember to clear your browser history!
 
2013-02-28 01:42:08 PM
Well, yeah, a Pope could technically say "Wimmen can't ever become Priests", and be infallible, but a future pope could say "But now they can, and he was infallibly right only at the time he said it, but my infallibility goes now." Kinda like colored folks and the Mormon leaders.
 
2013-02-28 01:47:57 PM

cynicalbastard: Well, yeah, a Pope could technically say "Wimmen can't ever become Priests", and be infallible, but a future pope could say "But now they can, and he was infallibly right only at the time he said it, but my infallibility goes now." Kinda like colored folks and the Mormon leaders.


For an eternal, omnipotent being, I'm not even about these little things but even between the differences in the Old and New Testament, God seems to change his mind about some fundamental things an awful lot. I get glared at by the bartender when I say, "I'm sorry, make that a double". And rightfully so. And I'm just ordering a drink, not running a multiverse.
 
2013-02-28 02:59:26 PM
Its interesting seeing people's reactions here.  You can tell who has their main opinion of Benedict based on the media and internet memes.  I've heard/seen a lot of folks expressing that they are glad he's going, he's too conservative, and that they hope someone like JPII is the next pope.  The thing is, Benedict was elected Pope in large part because he is a brilliant writer.  JPII said a lot of really awesome things, and one of Benedict's main jobs as Pope was to write that wisdom into letters.  If you actually read his homilies, addresses, and letters, a huge portion of what he said was hopeful, inclusive, uplifting, and tremendously loving.  Among Catholics who actually read and listen to what he says outside of media clips and sound bites, Benedict as almost as beloved as JPII was.  On the other side of the coin, JPII was very conservative (actually, the correct term is orthodox, understanding and following the teachings of the church on moral and liturgical issues).  He just didn't seem that way to someone who only watched him a little when the media made him look good because he loved the energy young people bring to the church.  While JPII was charismatic in his words and audiences, Benedict captured incredible amounts of that charisma in a lot of his writings.

What will be interesting won't be the theology of the next Pope, it will be consistent with the last two (who were very consistent with each other), it will be what kind of personality the conclave chooses.

Also, the infallible thing is never used on moral issues, so a declaration about the ordination of women priests would have never happened.  It is meant as a definitive theological statement about the current state of beliefs within the church.  When the church declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary from the seat of Peter it meant that this is a definitive belief of the church, not that it is impossible to be wrong.
 
2013-02-28 03:26:23 PM

foxy_canuck: he loved the energy young people bring to the church


I bet.

So what difference does the Pope or who the Pope is make in people's lives, exactly?
 
2013-02-28 03:34:57 PM
<b>Mugato</b>

I can't speak for other people, but for me its the beauty in some of the writings and homilies about love, faith, and courage.  They inspire me to work harder at improving who I am, to be more charitable with my time and material wealth, and to be more kind and loving.  You want to know more ask pilgrims at a world youth day.
 
2013-02-28 04:22:09 PM

SinPiEqualsZero: Comic most applicable to this pope:
[oi45.tinypic.com image 390x959]

Seriously, he creeps me out and sets off my gaydar like crazy.


He creeps me out too. Because he looks like a zombie.
 
2013-02-28 04:44:50 PM
I swiped a book on SQL, myself. Doubt a retiree would need that. I'm thinking Benny kept his Prada shoes.
 
2013-02-28 04:51:02 PM

Contents Under Pressure: I swiped a book on SQL, myself. Doubt a retiree would need that. I'm thinking Benny kept his Prada shoes.


He doesn't get to keep the red shoes, and they weren't Prada any way.
 
2013-02-28 05:14:12 PM

Testiclaw: I heard that he gets to live in a cloister and will have zero contact with anybody.

How true is that?

/how will he get food, etc.?


You might spot him in the checkout line if you go to the grocery store on Friday.
 
2013-02-28 05:18:06 PM

foxy_canuck: Also, the infallible thing is never used on moral issues, so a declaration about the ordination of women priests would have never happened. It is meant as a definitive theological statement about the current state of beliefs within the church. When the church declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary from the seat of Peter it meant that this is a definitive belief of the church, not that it is impossible to be wrong.


1. The ordination of women isn't (to traditional Catholic eyes) a moral issue, it's a sacramental one.  It's answering the question "Is the sacrament of Holy Orders valid when performed on a woman?"

Normal teaching to that question is an unambiguous No.   There is ample historic precedent that in the first millennium of Christianity that the Holy Orders of Deaconate were granted, but none about the Priesthood or Episcopate. (Despite the historic evidence, the Church still does not support this, because 1000 years of tradition saying to never do it, and 500 years before that of it slowly falling out of fashion outweighs the tradition of 500 years beforehand).

Also, the sole use of Papal Infallibility to date was not about the Immaculate Conception, it was to enshrine the Assumption of Mary into Catholic Dogma.

Immaculate Conception is the idea that Mary was born without Original Sin, and thus Jesus was born without Original Sin.

The Assumption of Mary says that at the end of her life, Mary was taken body and soul into heaven, and did not leave behind a mortal body.
 
2013-02-28 05:57:36 PM
Silverstaff

Yes, my bad... got my terms mixed up, I know what both mean.  I also understand and know the history of the church when it comes to ordaining women.  My point is I can't see the vatican making an infallible statement about it because it has more to do with what we do than the fundamental theology of our church.  The Assumption of Mary is a totally different level and type of theology if we want to draw comparisons.  I can see how it could be viewed from other angles, but I don't but the rumor that JPII was going to make that statement Ex Cathedra.  Statements condemning the ordination of women have been taught infallibly by ordinary and universal magisterium, but all that really means is when the Church makes statements about the ordination of women they are truthfully confirming the belief of the church, not that the belief is perfect and can't possibly be wrong.  Its more a statement that its not open for discussion at this time or in the foreseeable future.

Also, there have been papers published by Church historians attempting to find Ex Cathedra statements, and it turns out that there are likely several, the Immaculate Conception being one of them.  There is no standard published list of infallible statements.
 
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