GAT_00: #2: It gets a green on Fark.com
I_Am_Weasel: I thought "Yeah, like naturalnews.com" when I saw the title.
cman: snipFor example, recently the liberal website Daily Kos did a poll asking this question about gun control:"Would you support or oppose banning assault weapons?"Pretty simple, right? The result:Ban them: 63 percent; don't ban: 32 percent"Sorry, buddy, but I just bought this suit, and it's nothing without the gun."So about two-thirds of us want assault weapons banned. But at the same time, Gallup did a poll asking it this way:"Are you for or against a law which would make it illegal to manufacture, sell, or possess semiautomatic guns known as assault rifles?"The result:Ban them: 44 percent; don't ban: 51 percentA freaking 20-point swing, just by adding a bunch of words that really drive home what "ban" means. And you can do that with any issue -- if you poll Americans asking, "Should we cut government spending?" an overwhelming 76 percent say cut, cut, cut, people literally demand cuts "across the board." But if you ask the question another way, by actually listing the programs instead of just calling it "government," then the numbers reverse completely -- support for cutting drops into the teens or 20s.Penn and Teller did an episode about this. Here is a clip from the show showing how polls are bullshiat Link
gaspode: cman:Penn and Teller did an episode about this. Here is a clip from the show showing how polls are bullshiat LinkThey had one here this week where a poll was headlined as showing 'gay marriage doesn't have majority support'It was a hugely pushed question: (In 2004, Parliament legislated to allow same sex couples to register a civil union, amending over 150 pieces of legislation to give legal rights and recognition to same-sex couples. Do you think Parliament should change the definition of marriage to allow same-sex couples to marry, or do you think civil unions are sufficient for same sex couples?)and the result was still 47% for 43% against, but by ignoring that and taking the 47% at face they could lie and claim it lost. The poll was commissioned by 'family first' naturally.A completely unbiased poll on the same topic (question 'In New Zealand same-sex couples can enter into a Civil Union, but they are not able to get married. Do you think same-sex couples should be able to get married?') showed 63% in favour
techbuzz: I've been skipping all Daily Fail links on Fark for some time now. I wish mods/Drew would cut those ties and stop greenlighting Fail links.Relevant talk/video: Why the Daily Fail Is Irredeemable Shiat
ben_oakmag: I just looked down and saw the headline Gay teen worried he might be Christian.That is just a work of beauty.
And just by linking to all of these I've fallen into another one of their traps: writing intentionally wrong/dangerous articles to get the traffic from outraged people debunking them.
KrispyKritter: bonus bullshiat: any direct quote from any politician, the lying corksucker scumbags.
oldtaku: Sadly, the Daily Mail usually has the best pics for any story, even the ones the other news outlets are covering. Poopship, for example.
DysphoricMania: Though I love Cracked.. I find it funny that "Featured Article" show up linked to Cracked, but you were hocking it on "Featured Link:" for Buzzfeed a week before.Stop whoring so much... honestly....Want your $5/month that bad, just come out and ask... enough with the the funct up ads,... I'll buy a UF account if you promise me these stupid links never hit the main page again....for.... shame....
swahnhennessy: Didn't Drew write a book about all this?It's Not News, It's Fark: How Mass Media Tries to Pass Off Crap As News and How Fark.com Helps Them Do It As Much As Possible
DysphoricMania: Oh hell...foot in mouth... this was not a "featured link" thing... gonna go shut up now...
cptjeff: Yes, you get a 20 percent swing if you flat out lie about what the proposal entails and also imply that all semiautomatic weapons would be banned, though to be fair, they didn't explicitly lie on that one, just implicitly. Adding a bunch of words to drive home something biases the result. In that case, it was pretty clearly intentional, given the lies. The Assault Weapons Ban proposals on the table would NOT prohibit possession- just production and sales of new weapons.Yes, polls can be bullshiat. But they can be, and often are, useful and accurate. That shiatty thing from Gallup was not that- the Kos one was simply and neutrally worded, and if they followed standard practices on their sample, it should be very accurate.
heypete: cptjeff: Yes, you get a 20 percent swing if you flat out lie about what the proposal entails and also imply that all semiautomatic weapons would be banned, though to be fair, they didn't explicitly lie on that one, just implicitly. Adding a bunch of words to drive home something biases the result. In that case, it was pretty clearly intentional, given the lies. The Assault Weapons Ban proposals on the table would NOT prohibit possession- just production and sales of new weapons.Yes, polls can be bullshiat. But they can be, and often are, useful and accurate. That shiatty thing from Gallup was not that- the Kos one was simply and neutrally worded, and if they followed standard practices on their sample, it should be very accurate.Maybe I interpreted the text slightly differently, but I read the Gallup poll as being more explanatory than misleading. That is, that they specify that they are referring to semi-automatic guns that (some) people call "assault rifles" rather than suggesting that the bans would restrict all semi-auto guns. There's a lot of confusion on the issue, and many people think that "assault weapons" are full-auto or burst-fire instead of semi-auto. Specifically mentioning that the poll is referring to certain guns that are semi-auto seems reasonable to me.The Kos poll was more simply worded, yes, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily "neutrally worded" -- terms like "assault weapons" aren't really neutral. Had they used the more neutral term "certain semi-automatic rifles" instead of "assault weapons" I suspect the results would have been different. "Certain extremely popular semi-automatic rifles" would likely change the result even more.You're right about the "possession" bit. The addition of that word makes it difficult to compare the two polls on an apples-to-apples basis./your mileage may vary
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