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(Engadget)   Bill Gates and Zuckerberg create short film to entice kids to become code monkeys   ( engadget.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Bill Gates, zuck, Mark Zuckerberg, Mr. Potter, Gabe Newell, programming  
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1157 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Feb 2013 at 10:50 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-27 09:25:58 AM  
They left out the part where theres no money in it anymore.

/Just sayin'
 
2013-02-27 09:39:15 AM  

downstairs: They left out the part where theres no money in it anymore.

/Just sayin'


It can't be 1999 forever.
 
2013-02-27 10:07:19 AM  

Mugato: downstairs: They left out the part where theres no money in it anymore.

/Just sayin'

It can't be 1999 forever.


In total agreement, and I would be foolish to expect it to be.  I was just eluding to the part where coding is an art form.  Its not anymore.  Its an assembly line now.  Its sort of disingenuous to tell kids otherwise.

Ideas still matter, but the code that goes behind it isn't where the money is at.
 
2013-02-27 10:18:55 AM  
The problem with being a programmer is that your current skill-set as it stands (no matter what it is) has a peak earnings period of about 3-5 years before it is deprecated by newer technologies or automated software.

So you have to constantly stay ahead of the curve and constantly learn new languages, tools, utilities, software and code to keep yourself useful in an industry that is racing furiously to make you obsolete.

It keeps things from being boring, I guess, but it gets more and more aggravating as one gets older.
 
2013-02-27 10:52:16 AM  

Ishkur: The problem with being a programmer is that your current skill-set as it stands (no matter what it is) has a peak earnings period of about 3-5 years before it is deprecated by newer technologies or automated software.

So you have to constantly stay ahead of the curve and constantly learn new languages, tools, utilities, software and code to keep yourself useful in an industry that is racing furiously to make you obsolete.

It keeps things from being boring, I guess, but it gets more and more aggravating as one gets older.


50-year old here who is living through exactly what you are talking about.
 
2013-02-27 10:53:45 AM  

downstairs: I was just eluding to the part where coding is an art form.  Its not anymore.  Its an assembly line now.


It depends where you are. I work for a manufacturing company. There's a lot of artistry in our code, because we tend to be solving novel problems with very specific real-world applications. I mean, yes, we also write a lot of mind-numbing CRUD apps. But I do a lot of really interesting, challenging applications, and I'm engaged in teams where we have to push ourselves.

And the best part: all within 40 hours a week. I haven't worked extra time since forever.

Ishkur: It keeps things from being boring, I guess, but it gets more and more aggravating as one gets older.


I really hope not. I'd die if I weren't constantly being pushed to learn new things.
 
2013-02-27 10:54:46 AM  
...and I now have that damn song stuck in my head. Thanks, subby.
 
2013-02-27 10:59:59 AM  

whistleridge: ...and I now have that damn song stuck in my head. Thanks, subby.


you're welcome! ^_^
 
2013-02-27 11:02:16 AM  

Ishkur: The problem with being a programmer is that your current skill-set as it stands (no matter what it is) has a peak earnings period of about 3-5 years before it is deprecated by newer technologies or automated software.

So you have to constantly stay ahead of the curve and constantly learn new languages, tools, utilities, software and code to keep yourself useful in an industry that is racing furiously to make you obsolete.

It keeps things from being boring, I guess, but it gets more and more aggravating as one gets older.


I think I found your problem. Constant learning and change is the mark of most professionals. If you're resistant to it, perhaps you're in the wrong line of work.
 
2013-02-27 11:03:12 AM  
This pisses me off.

Look at it this way.  You know those "convenient" self-checkout lanes that walmart and the grocery stores all have?  That may have been great at first, when the cashiers had a huge workload, but now the same cashiers aren't needed, and can be eliminated to save the company money.  Because anyone can check themselves out, these people's job security has gone away.

It's the same reason why these build-your-own-business-website-easily services scare me.  If everybody can do what I can do, i have no job security.  More importantly, i'm a specialist, i have a college degree, and the skills i have don't need to be learned or known by everyone.

Maybe, MAYBE program logic could be taught to everyone.  Thinking in terms of qualifiers, switches, loops and the like could be a healthy skill to learn, but it shouldn't go beyond that.
 
2013-02-27 11:07:53 AM  

IronJelly: Maybe, MAYBE program logic could be taught to everyone. Thinking in terms of qualifiers, switches, loops and the like could be a healthy skill to learn, but it shouldn't go beyond that.


that actually comes in handy in real, non-programming life if you can develop the ability to think in coding normally

/electrical engineer
//kinda safe but face similar situations with becoming rapidly obsolete
///I'll stick with hardware, I should be good with that, right?
////....right?
//....fark....
 
2013-02-27 11:10:30 AM  

IronJelly: Because anyone can check themselves out, these people's job security has gone away.


Because those people had so much job security to begin with?

Running a checkout line is a low-skilled operation. Each individual checkout clerk is basically interchangeable with other checkout clerks. There's not a lot that an individual can bring to the experience to make them more desirable than someone else, once you've cleared the basic hurdle of competence.

Programming is a highly skilled operation. No matter how "process oriented" you get, programmers are not interchangeable parts, as every attempt to send work offshore has ever demonstrated (seriously, we use offshore developers- they're cheaper-per-hour, but cost more per project- they take two or three times as long, and their quality of work isn't up to our standards).

A website-in-a-box solution is never going to be as good, or as compelling, as a well-designed solution built by professionals. If anything ,the proliferation of cheap, amateur tools and sites will create a pressure to be different- and that pressure means going to professionals.

Let's put it another way: everyone should know the basics of plumbing. It's not complicated, and it's an extremely valuable life skill. But when your water main breaks and it runs under 100' of concrete, you're going to want to call in a professional to run a new one.
 
2013-02-27 11:13:24 AM  
If you want to teach kids anything about IT then teach them that no matter how great their skills are anyone who will hire them is getting more from the customer than they are in pay.  The product you have to offer anyone is something which they will need, not want.  They don't have a choice in buying, but they do have a choice as to whom they get it from.

The smartest thing you can do is cut out the middle-man and go it on your own.

When you interview somewhere and see the nice location, the top-shelf chairs, the great cafeteria, the free drinks and the foosball table, that's all money that could have gone to programmers.  That could have been a better health plan, an extra week off, or a better rate of pay.

Just remember that.  It's money that was pissed away to keep you from remembering that they are making a profit off of you and your abilities.
 
2013-02-27 11:14:34 AM  

downstairs: They left out the part where theres no money in it anymore.

/Just sayin'


All the developers are I know are making six figures.

/they keep their skills up to date and moved into industries that are in demand
//and they don't whine like three year old girls in fark threads
 
2013-02-27 11:15:58 AM  

WhippingBoy: I think I found your problem. Constant learning and change is the mark of most professionals. If you're resistant to it, perhaps you're in the wrong line of work.


Beat me too it ...

/shakes tiny fist
 
2013-02-27 11:23:19 AM  
Approves.

/Disappointed that nobody on the Fark Geek tab, of all places, has posted this yet.
 
2013-02-27 11:23:45 AM  

Skarekrough: The smartest thing you can do is cut out the middle-man and go it on your own.


Why on Earth would I do that? If I cut out the middle-man, then I have to do his job. I have to manage customer contacts, accounts, billing and accounts receivable (HOLY SHIAT DOES AR SUCK). If what I want to do is write code, why the hell would I want to deal with any of that? My time is too valuable for that bullshiat.

//Spoken as a former self-employed contractor. It  sucks.
 
2013-02-27 11:26:05 AM  

t3knomanser: IronJelly: Because anyone can check themselves out, these people's job security has gone away.

Because those people had so much job security to begin with?

Running a checkout line is a low-skilled operation. Each individual checkout clerk is basically interchangeable with other checkout clerks. There's not a lot that an individual can bring to the experience to make them more desirable than someone else, once you've cleared the basic hurdle of competence.

Programming is a highly skilled operation. No matter how "process oriented" you get, programmers are not interchangeable parts, as every attempt to send work offshore has ever demonstrated (seriously, we use offshore developers- they're cheaper-per-hour, but cost more per project- they take two or three times as long, and their quality of work isn't up to our standards).

A website-in-a-box solution is never going to be as good, or as compelling, as a well-designed solution built by professionals. If anything ,the proliferation of cheap, amateur tools and sites will create a pressure to be different- and that pressure means going to professionals.

Let's put it another way: everyone should know the basics of plumbing. It's not complicated, and it's an extremely valuable life skill. But when your water main breaks and it runs under 100' of concrete, you're going to want to call in a professional to run a new one.


You raise what would be valid points if you don't look at it from a business perspective.

The website-in-a-box is fine for small businesses, who are also companies I'm targeting for freelance work.  Sending the work to india?  I agree, you get back shiat, but the cost is way lower than what I have to charge in order to pay my bills.

I used the cashier example not because of the skillset needed, but because it was a job that I think people can understand a relate to, whereas if I tell people I make java applets, do website databases, or do anything related to computers for a living, there's still  chance I can just get a blank stare.  I could have changed my example to Postal Worker, or really, any job that the internet is making obsolete, such as a librarian.

I agree, the basic skills, like with plumbing should be there.  I changed the lever in my toilet last week when the chain broke.  granted, the only information I needed to have to do that were a basic knowledge of where the problem was (ie, i hat to know to open the lid on the tank), and I could see the problem.  There was little chance of me making it worse.  In programming, having only a small amount of knowledge can be dangerous.  I wasn't creating a security risk by putting in a new chain, even though I'd never replaced it myself before, yet you would be creating a security risk changing settings in your android app if you'd never done it before.
 
2013-02-27 11:29:19 AM  
I was in college in the last days of the tech bubble.  My roommate, who was a computer science major (and a real go-getter) had an offer to quit school and go work for a company with a starting salary of 65k (pretty damn good money in the midwest).  My roommate was smart enough to turn it down.  He just finished his PHD a couple years ago and now basically gets to work on whatever he wants.

It was pretty crazy back then.  I graduated with an English degree (with a philosophy minor), but I always wondered if I was stupid not to get into computer science.  Now I'm glad I didn't.  It took me a lot longer to get a career going, but once I did, I had more stability than a lot of the CS grads I knew in college.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the reason I do well at work is because of the logic and communication skills I learned in college.
 
2013-02-27 11:30:35 AM  

IronJelly: The website-in-a-box is fine for small businesses, who are also companies I'm targeting for freelance work.


Not really, though. I mean, most small businesses don't need  any website, beyond something they could hack together in Microsoft Word and upload. And yes, many of them do exactly that. Why not? For 99% of them, all they need to do is say, "We exist, we provide this service, you can reach us at this address/phone/email between these hours."

If your entire business model is building websites for people who don't need websites, I think  that's your real problem.
 
2013-02-27 11:32:11 AM  

WhippingBoy: I think I found your problem. Constant learning and change is the mark of most professionals. If you're resistant to it, perhaps you're in the wrong line of work.


Everyone resists change the older they get. The "learning" facilities of the brain tend to shut off with the onset of middle age. It'll happen to you too.

Fark's aging demographic repulsing Facebook and Twitter is a championship example of this.
 
2013-02-27 11:37:34 AM  

Ishkur: The "learning" facilities of the brain tend to shut off with the onset of middle age. It'll happen to you too.


It's more of a "use it or lose it" sort of thing. They've shown that the brain can retain plasticity if it's forced to. The problem is that the call for plasticity declines over time.
 
2013-02-27 11:38:49 AM  

gingerjet: downstairs: They left out the part where theres no money in it anymore.

/Just sayin'

All the developers are I know are making six figures.

/they keep their skills up to date and moved into industries that are in demand
//and they don't whine like three year old girls in fark threads


Not whining at all, didn't mean to come off like that.  I'm just saying I wouldn't encourage kids to think that learning to code will be a pathway to a real good career.

Computers were built to automate.  Every facet of the industry moves from "only the most creative and smart can do this" to "anyone can do this by clicking a few buttons, because the creative guys have automated it."  Constantly.

I too know developers making six figures.  But most of the time that's because they're in a position that exploits inefficiencies in the systems they work with.  Inefficiencies that will eventually be automated.  They're solving problems that will eventually solve themselves.

I've been in the industry for 18 years, and from a coding perspective- its a race to the bottom.  I have no complaints about it, just an observation.
 
2013-02-27 11:42:24 AM  
As a typewriter repair man, I find this amusing
 
2013-02-27 11:45:53 AM  
They're not encouraging people to be assembly line code monkeys. What they're saying is that the basics of understanding how to code is a fundamental skill now. It should be taught in grade school along with math and biology. Call it logic problems or whatever, but the practical part of it is how to code.

Once you have that basic building block, what you do with it is up to you. Yeah, a lot of people might struggle as developers forever, a lot of people may not be motivated to lifelong learning, but there are a million other directions to go if you are motivated to do so and have that basic skill set.

Understand code + law? Huge opportunity. Code + Enterpreneur skills? Huge opportunity. Code + Medical Training? Practically unlimited earning potential. I can't think of any career right now that wouldn't be benefited by practitioners having a greater understanding of how software is constructed. It touches everything. It opens your mind to see ways of solving problems you wouldn't otherwise consider.

/studied programming for 2 years
//now a marketer
///wouldn't change it for the world
 
2013-02-27 11:46:13 AM  

Skarekrough: When you interview somewhere and see the nice location, the top-shelf chairs, the great cafeteria, the free drinks and the foosball table, that's all money that could have gone to programmers. That could have been a better health plan, an extra week off, or a better rate of pay.


And your advice is that programmers should "go it on their own"?!

Nobody's going to pay you to write code for them unless they believe you're worth the money.  And the first thing you'll learn working on your own is that clients' beliefs aren't rational.  They're not impressed by how well-written your class definitions are.  They don't even know what those are.  They want proof that you've already been successful, such as having fancy chairs and a foosball table in your office.

You can either spend half your time marketing yourself instead of coding, or you can work for a company that already has a reputation and a client base and focus on the kind of work that's actually fulfilling.
 
2013-02-27 11:50:08 AM  
thank you code based gaben
 
2013-02-27 11:52:08 AM  

downstairs: They're solving problems that will eventually solve themselves.


Except that the businesses invent new problems. The vast bulk of programming code is built to describe a model of some real-world business process. Until you have strong AI, you're not going to automate that. Business analysts document the real-world process. Programmers turn that real-world process into code. As business gets more complex, the code gets more complex.

I really don't see how you can automate that.
 
2013-02-27 11:53:55 AM  
So, something like http://coderdojo.com/

Heard about it while vacationing in Ireland, I was very sad when I found out that they don't offer the program for adults.
 
2013-02-27 11:54:49 AM  

t3knomanser: I really don't see how you can automate that.


I should rephrase. I can see plenty of ways to automate that. You could, for example, build genetic algorithms that both invent the business process and the code behind it. A strong AI could do it.
 
2013-02-27 12:18:32 PM  

whistleridge: ...and I now have that damn song stuck in my head. Thanks, subby.


Code Monkey think maybe manager oughta write goddamned login page himself.
 
2013-02-27 12:29:33 PM  

Ishkur: The problem with being a programmer is that your current skill-set as it stands (no matter what it is) has a peak earnings period of about 3-5 years before it is deprecated by newer technologies or automated software.

So you have to constantly stay ahead of the curve and constantly learn new languages, tools, utilities, software and code to keep yourself useful in an industry that is racing furiously to make you obsolete.

It keeps things from being boring, I guess, but it gets more and more aggravating as one gets older.


Yep, and even then I find that there is a certain ceiling on your earnings and career that you'll hit somewhere along the lines of 10 years into your career.     To get any farther you'll have to get into management.
 
2013-02-27 12:36:12 PM  
Never met a code monkey that liked their job. Oh, they'll (poorly) feign enthusiasm over "constantly learning" and "loving the challenge", but their dead souls are impossible to hide.
 
2013-02-27 12:36:33 PM  

Skarekrough: If you want to teach kids anything about IT then teach them that no matter how great their skills are anyone who will hire them is getting more from the customer than they are in pay.  The product you have to offer anyone is something which they will need, not want.  They don't have a choice in buying, but they do have a choice as to whom they get it from.

The smartest thing you can do is cut out the middle-man and go it on your own.


It's a beautiful moment when you go out for drinks with co-workers and the ditzy blonde in sales has a few too many drinks and reveals that she made more money lsat year in commission than all of the production programmers, and then follows up with "The great part is you guys make such a great product, it sells itself".

Alas, I love my life outside of work and have no desire to work the hours needed to go it on my own.
 
2013-02-27 12:37:15 PM  

Skarekrough: If you want to teach kids anything about IT then teach them that no matter how great their skills are anyone who will hire them is getting more from the customer than they are in pay.  The product you have to offer anyone is something which they will need, not want.  They don't have a choice in buying, but they do have a choice as to whom they get it from.

The smartest thing you can do is cut out the middle-man and go it on your own.

When you interview somewhere and see the nice location, the top-shelf chairs, the great cafeteria, the free drinks and the foosball table, that's all money that could have gone to programmers.  That could have been a better health plan, an extra week off, or a better rate of pay.

Just remember that.  It's money that was pissed away to keep you from remembering that they are making a profit off of you and your abilities.


You just described all work, not just programming.  What's your point?

If your boss isn't making a profit off of your work, you should be getting fired any minute.  Regardless of your job.
 
2013-02-27 12:39:17 PM  
IronJelly:
Maybe, MAYBE program logic could be taught to everyone.  Thinking in terms of qualifiers, switches, loops and the like could be a healthy skill to learn, but it shouldn't go beyond that.

That is a hard "maybe".  Teach an introductory programming class and you will see some brains just can't handle logic.  My favorite example is trying to explain why this code:

If A>=B then Max = A
If B>=A then Max = B

achieves the same result as this code:

If A>B then Max = A
  Else Max = B

or why the B>=A can be replaced with B>A in the first chunk of code.
 
2013-02-27 12:41:00 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Never met a code monkey that liked their job. Oh, they'll (poorly) feign enthusiasm over "constantly learning" and "loving the challenge", but their dead souls are impossible to hide.


The "constantly learning" line is what we've stored as our default response in our reptilian mind to put an end to any conversation on the subject, as we throw back another shot of Wild Turkey from our  trembling hand and resume to quietly gazing at the wall with cold, lifeless eyes.
 
2013-02-27 12:41:32 PM  

downstairs: They left out the part where theres no money in it anymore.

/Just sayin'


Sure there is. You just don't get it thrown at you right after graduation.
 
2013-02-27 12:42:10 PM  
Couldn't watch the video, but would someone who has the desire and aptitude to be a computer programmer really need Bill Gates to tell them it's a good idea?

//Have neither the desire nor aptitude for computer programming.  Swiftly finding out that I actually have very little that is valuable in the labor market.  Why yes, I do have an MBA and no management experience, why do you ask?
 
2013-02-27 12:44:58 PM  

Cluckity: They're not encouraging people to be assembly line code monkeys. What they're saying is that the basics of understanding how to code is a fundamental skill now. It should be taught in grade school along with math and biology.



Given that even the guy changing my oil at Jiffy Lube these days is keying in an identification and querying data on me when I go in for service,  I really don't understand why at least some basic fundamental relational database concepts aren't required education.   What could be more simple than writing some basic sql queries?     It's definitely more practical and pragmatic than geometry.
 
2013-02-27 12:47:48 PM  

InmanRoshi: Skarekrough: If you want to teach kids anything about IT then teach them that no matter how great their skills are anyone who will hire them is getting more from the customer than they are in pay.  The product you have to offer anyone is something which they will need, not want.  They don't have a choice in buying, but they do have a choice as to whom they get it from.

The smartest thing you can do is cut out the middle-man and go it on your own.

It's a beautiful moment when you go out for drinks with co-workers and the ditzy blonde in sales has a few too many drinks and reveals that she made more money lsat year in commission than all of the production programmers, and then follows up with "The great part is you guys make such a great product, it sells itself".

Alas, I love my life outside of work and have no desire to work the hours needed to go it on my own.


to be fair the ditzy blonde has a rarer skill set than most programmers.  I would guess that she is 1) attractive, 2) female, 3) has people skills, i.e. willing and able to talk to strangers.

I know management gets a bad rap, but if it is higher pay, why doesn't everyone WANT to be management?  Truth be told, not everyone wants to be a manager, I would guess most people don't want to be manager, hence they pay more to make the job more attractive.  I am sure lots of farkers have a co-worker who they think would do a better job than their current manager, and I would bet that co-worker still wouldn't take it if it was offered to them.
 
2013-02-27 12:51:25 PM  

roc6783: Couldn't watch the video, but would someone who has the desire and aptitude to be a computer programmer really need Bill Gates to tell them it's a good idea?

//Have neither the desire nor aptitude for computer programming.  Swiftly finding out that I actually have very little that is valuable in the labor market.  Why yes, I do have an MBA and no management experience, why do you ask?


Well, yes.

Look, our education system has a LOT of problems.  One of the biggest is that it does a terrible job of helping kids "find their calling."

I never tried in grade school or high school.  I was the stereotypical kid who was super smart but  really lazy and unmotivated.  Why would I be motivated?  Nothing that was being taught interested me in the slightest, none of it had any apparent useful purpose. Even the things that were useful, like physics or chemistry, were things that just didn't fall into my "skill set."

I did graduate though, and went off to college where I had to pick a major.  I liked video games, so I picked Computer Science.

Turns out, I'm a damn good programmer and really like doing it.  But that was random, it was basically chance.  I could have just as easily picked environmental science or liberal arts.

Point is, getting information about careers out there is a good thing.  It might pique a kid's interest who would never have otherwise heard about it.
 
2013-02-27 12:56:02 PM  

Hyjamon: to be fair the ditzy blonde has a rarer skill set than most programmers. I would guess that she is 1) attractive, 2) female, 3) has people skills, i.e. willing and able to talk to strangers.


True.  There probably are less strippers and porn stars than programmers.
 
2013-02-27 01:05:06 PM  

Hyjamon: I know management gets a bad rap, but if it is higher pay, why doesn't everyone WANT to be management? Truth be told, not everyone wants to be a manager, I would guess most people don't want to be manager, hence they pay more to make the job more attractive. I am sure lots of farkers have a co-worker who they think would do a better job than their current manager, and I would bet that co-worker still wouldn't take it if it was offered to them.


I've been offered management positions several times and turned them down despite the money.  Management jobs really aren't that bad ... you basically just keep seats warm at meetings and and chime in every once in a while and occasionally jot down some notes to let people know you haven't started nodding off (yet).     But the tasks of the job requirements aren't what make it an undesirable position for me, but rather that the skillset is ubiquitous and limited on the open market.    For all the downsides of being a programmer, I at least know that I can quit any job and get hired somewhere else in rather quick order because I can list defined and specific marketable skills a, b, c, d in bullet points on my resume.   I've never had to fill a resume up with my ability to cross-strategize synergies.
 
2013-02-27 01:05:26 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Oh, they'll (poorly) feign enthusiasm over "constantly learning" and "loving the challenge", but their dead souls are impossible to hide.


So... the fact that I constantly learn things that have absolutely no value to my job (my company will never  ever use Node.js, for example), puts me where? Every year, I always pick one useless skill to learn- this year it's unicycling. And maybe Spanish. Not that Spanish is useless, but I have no use for it.
 
2013-02-27 01:27:52 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Never met a code monkey that liked their job. Oh, they'll (poorly) feign enthusiasm over "constantly learning" and "loving the challenge", but their dead souls are impossible to hide.


I don't know that I'd say, "love the challenge," but I really do like picking up new stuff; definitely a width-of-knowledge rather than a depth-of-knowledge person.

t3knomanser: IronJelly: The website-in-a-box is fine for small businesses, who are also companies I'm targeting for freelance work.

Not really, though. I mean, most small businesses don't need  any website, beyond something they could hack together in Microsoft Word and upload. And yes, many of them do exactly that. Why not? For 99% of them, all they need to do is say, "We exist, we provide this service, you can reach us at this address/phone/email between these hours."

If your entire business model is building websites for people who don't need websites, I think  that's your real problem.


I'd say the bigger threat to that part of the industry is that for a lot of small places, "check us out on facebook and twitter," replaces their need for a site of their own.
 
2013-02-27 01:30:20 PM  

downstairs: They left out the part where theres no money in it anymore.

/Just sayin'


It's still relatively high, especially right out of college with a BA/BS. The guys graduating from the program I'm in at Mizzou are usually getting hired immediately following graduation (technically, before) and are usually getting paid $50,000- $60,000 out of the gate, with benefits.

Then again, Kansas City and St. Louis are kind of experiencing massive technological growth right now, so that might not be the case everywhere.
 
2013-02-27 01:42:37 PM  

t3knomanser: Skarekrough: The smartest thing you can do is cut out the middle-man and go it on your own.

Why on Earth would I do that? If I cut out the middle-man, then I have to do his job. I have to manage customer contacts, accounts, billing and accounts receivable (HOLY SHIAT DOES AR SUCK). If what I want to do is write code, why the hell would I want to deal with any of that? My time is too valuable for that bullshiat.

//Spoken as a former self-employed contractor. It  sucks.


Come on, man, use automation, same as you do for everything else. Try Harvest, it's a great time-tracking system you can send invoices from. Integrate with Beanstalk for SCM, Lighthouse for issue tracking and Tender for customer support. You can do it all from your phone.
 
2013-02-27 01:46:03 PM  
"Learnin new stuff" is kinda enjoyable, but what's really fun (and valuable) is becoming a virtuoso in your "current stuff" through extensive applied experience and practice.   Sadly, that becomes more difficult given the rate of technology and platform turnover.   Granted, there are some universal concepts and standards that could be applied ubiquitously, but as with most things the devil is in the details.    To become Bela Fleck, you have to play an awful lot of hours of banjo ...  not spending a little time on the banjo and then moving on to guitar and then moving on to piano.     I love to be able to sort through APIs and new platforms get my hands around every available function and method to have them all at my beck and call, but unfortunately deadlines call.
 
2013-02-27 01:54:39 PM  

mccallcl: Try Harvest, it's a great time-tracking system you can send invoices from.


Does it call your customers sixteen times a day reminding them that they need to pay you, and then scream and curse when you realize that they don't care because they don't owe you enough money to make it worth your time to sue them in court and they won't need your services again anyway?

Because that's the part that sucks about AR.

ProfessorOhki: I'd say the bigger threat to that part of the industry is that for a lot of small places, "check us out on facebook and twitter," replaces their need for a site of their own.


Also true.
 
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