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(Investors Business Daily)   A government report says ObamaCare will add $6.2 trillion to deficits. Here are five reasons it's sure to add much more than that   (news.investors.com) divider line 35
    More: Fail, obamacare, federal deficits, insurance exchange, health spending, deficits  
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1846 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Feb 2013 at 12:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-27 12:38:22 PM
8 votes:
I'll take point here guys.

First, these are nonsense numbers extrapolated out over a stupid amount of time. Now onto the meat.


'Obamacare' adds government subsidies for people who cannot afford healthcare insurance to get it. Without healthcare insurance, these people still use healthcare and do not pay, causing healthcare organizations to charge more to everyone else to make up for it. One way or another, YOU are paying for it. The benefit of paying through the government means that they can negotiate lower paid prices to the healthcare organizations, driving down the average price paid for procedures, offsetting the increased cost of the initial subidies. Otherwise, what motivation does the healthcare organization have to lower prices? They'll simply take the new increased revenue as profit and say "Thank you very much." The government actually has some of the lowest reimbursement rates across the board.

 
The argument that Obamacare is going to force employers to drop employee health insurance plan is at best, laughably stupid. Just because it's cheaper to pay a fine than to pay for insurance they already provide, doesn't mean they'll drop it. Right now it's EVEN CHEAPER THAN THAT to drop employee insurance and pay no fine, yet it's not being done. The only reasons why a company would now decide to remove your insurance is twofold; because they were going to anyway, or because it's politically motivated (we can blame the blah guy)
2013-02-27 11:43:08 AM
5 votes:
There sure always seems to be plenty of money for wars, though.
2013-02-27 10:24:42 AM
5 votes:
"The Alabama senator asked the office to estimate what would happen if the cost containment provisions in the law -- the Independent Payment Advisory Board, excise tax on high-cost plans, and reductions in Medicare payments to providers -- are 'phased out over time' while the coverage provisions remain."

This is roughly the equivalent of the Boston Celtics' coach asking someone on his staff, "Figure out what our record would be if our opponents' points didn't count." Then, soon after, the coach called a press conference to declare, "Good news everyone! We're undefeated! We've won every game in a shutout!" Link
2013-02-27 12:30:51 PM
4 votes:
6.2 trillion over the course of 75 years, or in other terms, a tiny fraction of what Bush's Medicare Part D costs.
2013-02-27 01:10:49 PM
3 votes:
When you strip out these unrealistic cost control measures, ObamaCare ends up adding $6.2 trillion to federal deficits over the next 75 years, the GAO concludes, accelerating the nation's drive toward the real fiscal cliff.

So, $82.6 billion a year.

Meanwhile, our annual defense budget is about 8 times as much.

Hell, the interest we're paying on debts from past wars is  $109.1-$431.5 billion (in 2012).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Bu dg et_breakdown_for_2012

Let's just not get into any more long-term wars of choice based on made-up intelligence and we should be fine.

But thanks for the concern, subby & hack journalist.
2013-02-27 01:39:52 PM
2 votes:

chiett: chiett:
It's all free anyway. No need to work or serve. All we have to do is sit back
call our friends on our free phone and chill.
Cause YOU owe ME.

Natgrey:
 "This is what Republicans actually believe! "


Actually it's what all the bleeding hearts I've met believe (usually Democrats)


What chiett meeting a bleeding heart Democrat who believes what he wrote might look like.

www.poynter.org
2013-02-27 01:35:13 PM
2 votes:

chiett: chiett:
It's all free anyway. No need to work or serve. All we have to do is sit back
call our friends on our free phone and chill.
Cause YOU owe ME.

Natgrey:
 "This is what Republicans actually believe! "


Actually it's what all the bleeding hearts I've met believe (usually Democrats)


It is what you pretend others believe because intellectually honest discourse is too difficult for you. Literally no one you've met believes this.
2013-02-27 01:19:41 PM
2 votes:

chiett: It's all free anyway. No need to work or serve. All we have to do is sit back
call our friends on our free phone and chill.
Cause YOU owe ME.


This is what Republicans actually believe!
2013-02-27 12:56:40 PM
2 votes:

CPennypacker: justtray: I'll take point here guys.

First, these are nonsense numbers extrapolated out over a stupid amount of time. Now onto the meat.


'Obamacare' adds government subsidies for people who cannot afford healthcare insurance to get it. Without healthcare insurance, these people still use healthcare and do not pay, causing healthcare organizations to charge more to everyone else to make up for it. One way or another, YOU are paying for it. The benefit of paying through the government means that they can negotiate lower paid prices to the healthcare organizations, driving down the average price paid for procedures, offsetting the increased cost of the initial subidies. Otherwise, what motivation does the healthcare organization have to lower prices? They'll simply take the new increased revenue as profit and say "Thank you very much." The government actually has some of the lowest reimbursement rates across the board.

 
The argument that Obamacare is going to force employers to drop employee health insurance plan is at best, laughably stupid. Just because it's cheaper to pay a fine than to pay for insurance they already provide, doesn't mean they'll drop it. Right now it's EVEN CHEAPER THAN THAT to drop employee insurance and pay no fine, yet it's not being done. The only reasons why a company would now decide to remove your insurance is twofold; because they were going to anyway, or because it's politically motivated (we can blame the blah guy)

Its Investors.com. Nobody's paying you overtime to refute them.

Could have just wrote "Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"


It's nice, though, when someone takes the time to refute Republican positions using reasoned arguments.  Otherwise, one day we might find ourselves in the "Anti-idiot, rape-is-bad, not-anti-browns-people" camp, and not remember why.
2013-02-27 12:53:14 PM
2 votes:
Someone explain to subby the difference between deficits and debt - actually, someone explain that to Investors.com, too. If you aren't literate in financial terms, you probably shouldn't be giving investment advice.
2013-02-27 12:48:46 PM
2 votes:

justtray: I'll take point here guys.

First, these are nonsense numbers extrapolated out over a stupid amount of time. Now onto the meat.


'Obamacare' adds government subsidies for people who cannot afford healthcare insurance to get it. Without healthcare insurance, these people still use healthcare and do not pay, causing healthcare organizations to charge more to everyone else to make up for it. One way or another, YOU are paying for it. The benefit of paying through the government means that they can negotiate lower paid prices to the healthcare organizations, driving down the average price paid for procedures, offsetting the increased cost of the initial subidies. Otherwise, what motivation does the healthcare organization have to lower prices? They'll simply take the new increased revenue as profit and say "Thank you very much." The government actually has some of the lowest reimbursement rates across the board.

 
The argument that Obamacare is going to force employers to drop employee health insurance plan is at best, laughably stupid. Just because it's cheaper to pay a fine than to pay for insurance they already provide, doesn't mean they'll drop it. Right now it's EVEN CHEAPER THAN THAT to drop employee insurance and pay no fine, yet it's not being done. The only reasons why a company would now decide to remove your insurance is twofold; because they were going to anyway, or because it's politically motivated (we can blame the blah guy)


Its Investors.com. Nobody's paying you overtime to refute them.

Could have just wrote "Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"
2013-02-27 12:45:12 PM
2 votes:
Good point.  Lets change to single payer instead.

Or just scrap everything (including medicare, medicaid) and let the "Free market" continue sucking the lifeblood from our economy.
2013-02-27 12:34:16 PM
2 votes:
FTFA: When you strip out these unrealistic cost control measures, ObamaCare ends up adding $6.2 trillion to federal deficits over the next 75 years, the GAO concludes, accelerating the nation's drive toward the real fiscal cliff.

Federal budget projections are ten years at a time. This doesn't even make sense. The war against Alpha Ceti 1 led by Emperor Springsteen II in 2035 will dwarf that cost alone.

/oops, I've said too much already
2013-02-27 07:01:17 PM
1 votes:

jigger: These are just some of the reasons Obamacare is directly causing rates to jump double digits.


Obamacare is an easy thing to point to, nothing more, for the exact same behavior the insurance industry has been doing for the past decade for no good reason at all.  Our bills would have gone up regardless. At least some of the provisions in the ACA mean that money will actually have to go to caring for people that need it, and get more people insured.

Getting more people insured. Forming a larger pool. That by itself should lower rates. Insurers are jacking up rates when they're going to get a goddamn subsidy, using the exact same reasoning they've used for the last 10 years: water is wet, the sky is blue, the CEO needs a new yacht, fark you.
2013-02-27 06:56:36 PM
1 votes:

jigger: It requires coverage of people with pre-existing conditions
It requires that people with pre-existing conditions pay the same as everyone else


It also gave the insurance company a larger pool of customers. That more than offsets the cost of the people with pre-existing conditions. This is not a case where the insurance company are raising rates out of absolute necessity.
2013-02-27 06:34:35 PM
1 votes:

jigger: I guess you missed the point of the AFFORDABLE care act.


It didn't do enough in preventing insurance companies from jacking up costs because "fark you."? Yeah, that could have been done better. Doesn't change the fact that the insurance companies have no clear or better reason now than they did at any point in the last decade.
2013-02-27 06:12:56 PM
1 votes:

jigger: If you had clicked the link:

6:50 AM - Feb 27, 2013


And you completely missed the point.
2013-02-27 06:08:58 PM
1 votes:
I just wish Obama would not have backed down from the fight for a public option.  It would have driven the insane over-the-top prices health insurance companies charge to not help you when you need it most.  With a low-cost public option, the shiathead insurance companies would have had to lower prices to compete, you know the way capitalism is supposed to work.  However, the billions put into buying off members of Congress and the bullshiat fear propaganda about socialism that the companies strategized worked.
2013-02-27 02:55:50 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-27 02:07:57 PM
1 votes:
I believe when chiett gets called out for his bullshiat he moves the goal posts by falling back to vague statements that are pretty much universally agreed upon.

chiett: I believe I have the responsibility to take care of me and mine as best as I can.


Of course, everyone does.

I believe I should give back to my country.

Of course, aside from some fringe groups everyone agrees with this, the debate is about how much and how.

I believe I should pay my fair share of Taxes within the law.

Of course, aside from some outlying exceptions most agree with this, the debate is about what is "fair".

I believe in helping the truly less fortunate.

Of course, everyone does, but there is a vague word in there.

After I have done these things then I owe NOTHING.

Who said you did?

and I believe a large portion of my tax money is wasted.

Of course, there is waste in any large organization and government is no different. I can't think of many people who would disagree with this statement.

I believe you have nothing useful to add to the conversation.
2013-02-27 01:52:40 PM
1 votes:

chiett: .
I believe in helping the truly less fortunate.


What work is "truly" doing in that sentence?
2013-02-27 01:50:43 PM
1 votes:

LarryDan43: Obamacare will make millions for rich healthcare companies and executives and since they don't have to pay taxes because socialism it leads to large deficits.


not with that 80/20 rule in place.

http://www.healthcare.gov/news/reports/mlr-rebates06212012a.html
2013-02-27 01:46:07 PM
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-02-27 01:44:14 PM
1 votes:
Does the PPACA mean that people will stop being so fat?  No?

Does the PPACA mean that people will stop getting $3,600 MRIs every time they stub their toe?  No?

Unless we find a way to SPEND LESS on healthcare, nothing is solved, no matter how much the PPACA shuffles the costs around.
2013-02-27 01:34:16 PM
1 votes:

chiett: Actually it's what all the bleeding hearts I've met believe (usually Democrats)


You and clane need to learn how to use a quote button.

What a Fark Con trying to respond to someone looks like:
2013-02-27 01:33:46 PM
1 votes:

rufus-t-firefly: When you strip out these unrealistic cost control measures, ObamaCare ends up adding $6.2 trillion to federal deficits over the next 75 years, the GAO concludes, accelerating the nation's drive toward the real fiscal cliff.

So, $82.6 billion a year.

Meanwhile, our annual defense budget is about 8 times as much.

Hell, the interest we're paying on debts from past wars is  $109.1-$431.5 billion (in 2012).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Bu dg et_breakdown_for_2012

Let's just not get into any more long-term wars of choice based on made-up intelligence and we should be fine.

But thanks for the concern, subby & hack journalist.


The other thing to note is that actual dollars is fairly meaningless without context. Over those same 75 years our working population will increase as will our GDP. Of course we will spend more, but what that spending amounts to per capita, or more importantly as a percentage of our GDP is much more meaningful.
2013-02-27 01:30:13 PM
1 votes:

chiett: chiett:
It's all free anyway. No need to work or serve. All we have to do is sit back
call our friends on our free phone and chill.
Cause YOU owe ME.

Natgrey:
 "This is what Republicans actually believe! "


Actually it's what all the bleeding hearts I've met believe (usually Democrats)


Why do you keep such poor company?
2013-02-27 01:28:33 PM
1 votes:

PanicMan: rufus-t-firefly: So, $82.6 billion a year.

And that's assuming nothing at all changes for 75 years.


Baby Boomers will be nearly 150 years old in 75 years.  Do you have any idea how expensive it will be to keep them alive?
2013-02-27 01:27:55 PM
1 votes:
This is a blog from Investor's Business Daily, whose initials are IBD.

IBD also stands for Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

Therefore, does Investor's Business Daily = Inflammatory Bowel Disease?

Coincidence? I think not.
2013-02-27 01:27:41 PM
1 votes:
chiett:
It's all free anyway. No need to work or serve. All we have to do is sit back
call our friends on our free phone and chill.
Cause YOU owe ME.


Natgrey:
 "This is what Republicans actually believe! "


Actually it's what all the bleeding hearts I've met believe (usually Democrats)
2013-02-27 01:26:11 PM
1 votes:

chiett: It's all free anyway. No need to work or serve. All we have to do is sit back
call our friends on our free phone and chill.
Cause YOU owe ME.


this is what Republicans are actually programmed to believe
2013-02-27 01:20:58 PM
1 votes:
Is there anyone out there who has been really sick (or a family member) that doesn't supper a single payer system? I can't imagine anyone who receives a $100,000 hospital bill and their insurance only covers 80% is going to think "gee we have a great system"
2013-02-27 12:57:57 PM
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The article is about why those are reasonable assumptions.


Meh, I don't quite trust IBD as a reasonable source.

You know who else doesn't trust IBD as a reasonable source?

www.independent.co.uk

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/08/12/hawking-serves-crow-to -i nvesto/
2013-02-27 12:57:27 PM
1 votes:
Investors Business Daily is World Net Daily minus some racism
2013-02-27 12:46:43 PM
1 votes:
Investors.com is pure republican math.......they even oppose Obama when he's bailing out banks/wall street.
 
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