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(SFGate)   Reports coming out that there's a big Republican thrust behind gay marriage   (sfgate.com) divider line 50
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1097 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Feb 2013 at 10:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-27 10:34:48 AM
It should be a Republican issue. Letting the Religious Right hijack things has cost the party a great deal, and for the party of Lincoln to seek to limit rights, and to strike out against religious freedom is simply put: shameful.

It is a matter of equality under the law, and a matter of religious freedom. Two issues that are fairly cut and dried. Don't want to marry someone? Don't. Your church doesn't want to perform a ceremony? Then don't. But never mind what other folks are doing, plain and simple. Your marriage isn't affected in the least by anyone else's, and as a matter of privacy, it shouldn't matter to you either.

Republicans should be at the forefront on this issue, if they want to have any credibility on matters of privacy, religious freedom, and equality, and that so many bring up specious arguments that, in the end, come back to Leviticus, shows exactly how poorly the inclusion of the Religious Right has affected the GOP...
 
2013-02-27 10:57:53 AM
This headline is quite the reach around the hole issue
 
2013-02-27 10:59:19 AM
Go on.  Stick it to the Fundies.  Watch what happens.
 
2013-02-27 11:00:01 AM
Oddly enough, this is a direct result of the rise of the tea party.

As the baggers' power wanes, moderate Republicans will have to move to the center* in order to further deny the baggers any sort of victory or clout.  They don't really care about gay marriage, but they do care about losing power, especially to evangelical nutballs and racist pukes.

* "center" being the center between American liberals and conservatives, not any rational view of a real center position.
 
2013-02-27 11:00:09 AM

hubiestubert: It should be a Republican issue.


But they'll lose all those sweet, ignorant "family values" votes.
 
2013-02-27 11:00:15 AM
But it's the pelvic thrust that drives you insane.
 
2013-02-27 11:02:18 AM
Is this big thrust related in any way to a wide stance?
 
2013-02-27 11:02:39 AM
...resulting in Santorum surge.
 
2013-02-27 11:03:03 AM
I can't wait for the conservatives to get so far ahead of this issue that they can claim they were for it and the liberals were against it all along, like they did with Martin Luther King.
 
2013-02-27 11:04:40 AM
Amazing stuff...they're adopting the majority position in hopes of winning more elections. Totally not a callous vote grab at all. See also: immigration.

And just think, in 20 years Republicans will claim they were always the party that supported equality and homosexual rights.
 
2013-02-27 11:06:23 AM

js34603: Amazing stuff...they're adopting the majority position in hopes of winning more elections. Totally not a callous vote grab at all. See also: immigration.

And just think, in 20 years Republicans will claim they were always the party that supported equality and homosexual rights.


Of course. Just as liberals are the real racists, they are also the real homophobes.
 
2013-02-27 11:07:04 AM
Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.
 
2013-02-27 11:08:17 AM

hubiestubert: Republicans should be at the forefront on this issue, if they want to have any credibility on matters of privacy, religious freedom, and equality


But they don't have any credibility on those issues. They sold out that credibility when they decided to become a modern ultra-right reactionary party and it's not coming back. The party of Lincoln is dead, my friend. 20th century politics killed it.
 
2013-02-27 11:08:59 AM
We all know this is a very slippery slope that leads to the downfall of america, our loss of exceptionalism and the marriage of cats and dogs. Is this really the future you want for your butt babies?

Instead we need to come together and condemn the evildoers - the fornicators, sodomists and the oenophiles in our midst. Perhaps its time to return to the public stocks and shaming those non-christians around us before they ensnare our great nation under the shackles of Sharia Law.
 
2013-02-27 11:09:53 AM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


Nice try.  5/10
 
2013-02-27 11:10:20 AM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


It's a good thing we're not a democracy then.
 
2013-02-27 11:10:34 AM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


1. People are allowed to change their minds, and if enough do so and it changes a law, that's exactly democracy.

2. Prop 8 was profoundly undemocratic, thanks to serious out-of-state/religious meddling.
 
2013-02-27 11:11:23 AM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


3/10

/needs more misspellings
 
2013-02-27 11:12:02 AM
It's cute that these people think they won't be primaried in about 15 months.
 
2013-02-27 11:13:53 AM
"Big thrust" is a huge stretch right now. It's Huntsman, Gary Johnson, a former RNC chair who toed the anti-gay line in power but came out as gay after he left, and a few small fry state politicians and House members. This isn't a shift inparty rhetoric, not even as a callous vote grab. Those guys are pretty much outside both the Tea Party wing and the GOP establishment.

It's certainly nice but it doesn't mean anything until it's adopted by someone who actually has the power to do something in the GOP.
 
2013-02-27 11:17:03 AM
Individual rights should be a conservative issue because it promotes small government and freedom.  Entitlement programs should be a Christian issue because it promotes Jesus's teachings.

/I've always thought that the social conservatism/liberalism factions allied with the wrong parties.
 
2013-02-27 11:18:42 AM

hubiestubert: Republicans should be at the forefront on this issue, if they want to have any credibility on matters of privacy, religious freedom, and equality, and that so many bring up specious arguments that, in the end, come back to Leviticus, shows exactly how poorly the inclusion of the Religious Right has affected the GOP...


Instead of destroying traditional marriage or the family, it seems homos getting married will destroy the GOP (or at least fracture it, much like gun rights did the Democrats in the 1990s, or racism did to the Democrats in the 1960s).

The GOP has had a weird conlibservativarian chimera within for the last 30 years - BIG GUBMINT BAD, except when it comes to sex, drugs and rock'n'roll; SMALL GUMBINT GOOD except when Muslims want a new mosque or women want insurance-paid birth control - and I never thought that marriage equality would be the thing that finally exposed it.

// I actually thought it would be pot
 
2013-02-27 11:19:52 AM

Citrate1007: Individual rights should be a conservative issue because it promotes small government and freedom.  Entitlement programs should be a Christian issue because it promotes Jesus's teachings.

/I've always thought that the social conservatism/liberalism factions allied with the wrong parties.


Political / economic conservatism got mixed up with social conservatism.  And not a single f*ck has been given to this day.
 
2013-02-27 11:21:23 AM

Elzar: Instead we need to come together and condemn the evildoers - the fornicators, sodomists and the oenophiles in our midst. Perhaps its time to return to the public stocks and shaming those non-christians around us before they ensnare our great nation under the shackles of Sharia Law.


I don't think that stocks are nearly enough for any true God fearing Christian. A true Christian handles these evildoers the way that God intended, and as prescribed in Leviticus: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Of course they also follow all of the other laws that God lays down in the bible. They would never have round haircuts or trim the edges of their beard, they absolutely never pull out during sex, wear clothes that are a blended fabric, wear gold, and always send their women into the wilderness when they're on the rag.
 
2013-02-27 11:28:50 AM
It'll be interesting to see if Republicans can come from behind on this. While some have been straddling both sides, others have been eager to mount their own defense.  Stiff opposition is likely but can be overcome with exceptional oral arguments. Let's see how they ride it out.
 
2013-02-27 11:30:33 AM

HMS_Blinkin: 2. Prop 8 was profoundly undemocratic, thanks to serious out-of-state/religious meddling.


But companies like Intel and Apple getting involved is of course highly democratic. Well it is, only if you like the outcome.. :)
 
2013-02-27 11:33:54 AM

Elzar: We all know this is a very slippery slope that leads to the downfall of america, our loss of exceptionalism and the marriage of cats and dogs. Is this really the future you want for your butt babies?

Instead we need to come together and condemn the evildoers - the fornicators, sodomists and the oenophiles in our midst. Perhaps its time to return to the public stocks and shaming those non-christians around us before they ensnare our great nation under the shackles of Sharia Law.


reelmovienation.com

I AM NOT VOTING FOR ANY F*CKING GAY MARRIAGE!!!!!
 
2013-02-27 11:42:54 AM

runin800m: I don't think that stocks are nearly enough for any true God fearing Christian. A true Christian handles these evildoers the way that God intended, and as prescribed in Leviticus: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."


I never lie to men like I lie to women.
 
2013-02-27 11:46:44 AM

GranoblasticMan: runin800m: I don't think that stocks are nearly enough for any true God fearing Christian. A true Christian handles these evildoers the way that God intended, and as prescribed in Leviticus: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

I never lie to men like I lie to women.


Good, the bible is really clear that lying is a huge offense, at least if you're a man lying to a man or a woman lying to a woman. It's only OK to lie to members of the opposite sex.

/The more you know...
 
2013-02-27 11:50:02 AM
So Republicans really want to have Gay Marriage shoved down their throats.
 
2013-02-27 12:02:31 PM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


A: It doesn't matter how many people vote on something if it's unconstitutional.
B: Challenging a law, trying to recall an elected official, or asking the courts to review a law is JUST as Democratic as voting for the law in in the first place.
C: I didn't know that all of this was confusing to people.
 
2013-02-27 12:02:43 PM

runin800m: GranoblasticMan: runin800m: I don't think that stocks are nearly enough for any true God fearing Christian. A true Christian handles these evildoers the way that God intended, and as prescribed in Leviticus: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

I never lie to men like I lie to women.

Good, the bible is really clear that lying is a huge offense, at least if you're a man lying to a man or a woman lying to a woman. It's only OK to lie to members of the opposite sex.

/The more you know...


Bearing false witness is a breach of a Commandment. If Yahweh was so down on the sodomy thing, you'd think that the Supreme Ultimate Power would have at least put it down on the big tablet with the others...

Of course, if you lie and cheat, that's for God to judge as a crime, not the courts in some folks' book, but you are attracted to the same sex, then that's a stoning? Or a public shaming? What about adultery, which WAS put on the tablets?  Again, folks want to forgive the adulterer, which is FAR more a choice than attraction to the same sex. This is, in part, why some Christians just confuse me.
 
2013-02-27 12:05:05 PM
This is good news, but I'm not holding my breath... As for the "Well, they're just small fry Republicans", at least they ARE Republicans supporting this, which is more than you had 6 months ago.
 
2013-02-27 12:14:57 PM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


Tyranny of the majority.  Our system is designed to (attempt to) thwart it.  That's what's going on now:  the majority decided to be tyrranical, and the courts are saying "you can't do that"

Elzar: We all know this is a very slippery slope that leads to the downfall of america, our loss of exceptionalism and the marriage of cats and dogs. Is this really the future you want for your butt babies?

Instead we need to come together and condemn the evildoers - the fornicators, sodomists and the oenophiles in our midst. Perhaps its time to return to the public stocks and shaming those non-christians around us before they ensnare our great nation under the shackles of Sharia Law.


What the hell is wrong with liking fine wine now and again?  Fark off.
 
2013-02-27 12:29:52 PM
It's not that they're small fry Republicans - you've got former governors, cabinet members, members of the House... The problem is that most of them are out of office, suggesting that the only way a Republican political leader can support gay marriage is if he/she has no intention of continuing to be a Republican political leader.
 
2013-02-27 12:49:05 PM

runin800m: GranoblasticMan: runin800m: I don't think that stocks are nearly enough for any true God fearing Christian. A true Christian handles these evildoers the way that God intended, and as prescribed in Leviticus: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

I never lie to men like I lie to women.

Good, the bible is really clear that lying is a huge offense, at least if you're a man lying to a man or a woman lying to a woman. It's only OK to lie to members of the opposite sex.

/The more you know...


The Bible: Original Player's Playbook
 
2013-02-27 01:32:30 PM
Nah, they are just realizing we had the bible wrong all these years:

Gay marriage and marijuana were legalized on the same day for a reason: Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lays with another man he should be stoned."
 
2013-02-27 01:42:48 PM

Great_Milenko: Oddly enough, this is a direct result of the rise of the tea party.

As the baggers' power wanes, moderate Republicans will have to move to the center* in order to further deny the baggers any sort of victory or clout.  They don't really care about gay marriage, but they do care about losing power, especially to evangelical nutballs and racist pukes.

* "center" being the center between American liberals and conservatives, not any rational view of a real center position.


No this is a direct result of people like Ellen Degeneres, George Takei and Anderson Cooper coming out and showing ignorant straight people that gay people are really no different than themselves.  I should know I was once one of those ignorant straight people that supported absolutely no public recognition of gay relationships in any form.  I just plain didn't understand homosexuality.  I thought it was a mental disorder.  That they didn't really love each other and that it was all about engaging in sexually deviant behavior.  Until I started meeting gay people and finding out people I knew were gay and was able to see them just live normal lives and that their relationships with their partners are really no different than hetero relationships.  I was not homophobic, there was no fear.  It was purely ignorance along with some misinformation from people I thought knew what they were talking about.

Also if one truly supports the Constitution there is absolutely no Constitutional justification of any kind for a ban on gay marriage.  People really need to stop only supporting the parts of the Constitution they like.
 
2013-02-27 01:59:14 PM
Spliiiiiiiit.
 
2013-02-27 01:59:28 PM

Callous: Also if one truly supports the Constitution there is absolutely no Constitutional justification of any kind for a ban on gay marriage.  People really need to stop only supporting the parts of the Constitution they like.


That'll probably happen about the same time they decided to stop supporting only the parts of the Bible they like.
 
2013-02-27 02:38:38 PM
New box, same old crappy pizza inside.
 
2013-02-27 03:01:33 PM

Callous: Great_Milenko: Oddly enough, this is a direct result of the rise of the tea party.

As the baggers' power wanes, moderate Republicans will have to move to the center* in order to further deny the baggers any sort of victory or clout.  They don't really care about gay marriage, but they do care about losing power, especially to evangelical nutballs and racist pukes.

* "center" being the center between American liberals and conservatives, not any rational view of a real center position.

No this is a direct result of people like Ellen Degeneres, George Takei and Anderson Cooper coming out and showing ignorant straight people that gay people are really no different than themselves.  I should know I was once one of those ignorant straight people that supported absolutely no public recognition of gay relationships in any form.  I just plain didn't understand homosexuality.  I thought it was a mental disorder.  That they didn't really love each other and that it was all about engaging in sexually deviant behavior.  Until I started meeting gay people and finding out people I knew were gay and was able to see them just live normal lives and that their relationships with their partners are really no different than hetero relationships.  I was not homophobic, there was no fear.  It was purely ignorance along with some misinformation from people I thought knew what they were talking about.


You have, unintentionally, demonstrated one of the substantial motivating factors for advocating bans -- even Constitutional bans -- on legal recognition of same-sex unions. As continued public exposure to same-sex unions and to homosexual individuals fails to coincide with the disastrous consequences predicted to result from such unions, popular support for opponents of those unions declines. Opponents of same-sex marriage are therefore desperate to stop same-sex marriage, lest they be exposed as dishonest and irrational.

/A similar rationale exists for opposing concealed carry.
 
2013-02-27 03:03:38 PM

Peki: Nah, they are just realizing we had the bible wrong all these years:

Gay marriage and marijuana were legalized on the same day for a reason: Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lays with another man he should be stoned."


Sorry, that doesn't quite work:  my bible reads something to the effect of "they shall stone him with stones".
 
2013-02-27 03:05:22 PM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


Maybe when the church of polygamy... I mean the mormons don't get involved, we can have a real election without lies and jebus....
 
2013-02-27 03:08:11 PM

friday13: Peki: Nah, they are just realizing we had the bible wrong all these years:

Gay marriage and marijuana were legalized on the same day for a reason: Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lays with another man he should be stoned."

Sorry, that doesn't quite work:  my bible reads something to the effect of "they shall stone him with stones".


Is "stones" not an archaic term for "dimebag"?
 
2013-02-27 03:13:16 PM

Dimensio: friday13: Peki: Nah, they are just realizing we had the bible wrong all these years:

Gay marriage and marijuana were legalized on the same day for a reason: Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lays with another man he should be stoned."

Sorry, that doesn't quite work:  my bible reads something to the effect of "they shall stone him with stones".

Is "stones" not an archaic term for "dimebag"?


...not from what I could tell...especially considering mine also says "their blood shall be upon them"...
 
2013-02-27 03:28:00 PM

friday13: Dimensio: friday13: Peki: Nah, they are just realizing we had the bible wrong all these years:

Gay marriage and marijuana were legalized on the same day for a reason: Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lays with another man he should be stoned."

Sorry, that doesn't quite work:  my bible reads something to the effect of "they shall stone him with stones".

Is "stones" not an archaic term for "dimebag"?

...not from what I could tell...especially considering mine also says "their blood shall be upon them"...


That is easily explained by insufficient use of lubricant.
 
2013-02-27 04:37:48 PM

odinsposse: "Big thrust" is a huge stretch right now. It's Huntsman, Gary Johnson, a former RNC chair who toed the anti-gay line in power but came out as gay after he left, and a few small fry state politicians and House members. This isn't a shift inparty rhetoric, not even as a callous vote grab. Those guys are pretty much outside both the Tea Party wing and the GOP establishment.


Probably going to be the basis for the next GOP rewrite of history in another 30-50 years, though.
 
2013-02-27 05:34:22 PM

poorcku: Why the hell did the people vote on California Proposition 8? Are we going to vote until the "right" thing comes out? Are we going to go through the back-channels in order to get the proposition revoked? This is profoundly undemocratic.


You mean like the anti-abortion legislation the GOP in numerous state legislatures keeps introducing in every new session?
 
2013-02-27 05:50:01 PM

mksmith: You mean like the anti-abortion legislation the GOP in numerous state legislatures keeps introducing in every new session?


I think that is absurd. Absurd is also to keep on voting till it is done right. Like the Irish vote on the Lisbon Treaty.
 
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