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(Reason Magazine)   Video montage of Americans refusing to cooperate with DHS checkpoints   (reason.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, DHS, video montages, Americans  
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7700 clicks; posted to Video » on 27 Feb 2013 at 6:50 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



147 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-02-27 06:58:02 AM  
Wow. What the fark, America? This real?
 
2013-02-27 07:04:45 AM  
At the 12:00 mark, it seems the vehicle is pulled over for an ag inspection. Can you refuse an ag inspection?
 
2013-02-27 07:19:16 AM  
ah, shiny beacon of freedom.

have you figured out yet why the rest of the world stopped looking up to you?
 
2013-02-27 07:22:37 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: At the 12:00 mark, it seems the vehicle is pulled over for an ag inspection. Can you refuse an ag inspection?


AverageAmericanGuy: At the 12:00 mark, it seems the vehicle is pulled over for an ag inspection. Can you refuse an ag inspection?


But it was a privately owned RV and the excuse given was that there is "a refrigerator".  If it was a commercial semi that would be a different story but for all intents and purposes, wouldn't this be the same concept as a car?  Also, that was the same tool that threatened to kick them out of the state.
 
2013-02-27 07:28:50 AM  
America: Land of the free!*

*Restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Subject to conditions.

I love visiting the US and every cop/official I've dealt with has been great. But it does seem that this sort of thing is getting more and more "normal", and once it gets to be normal then courts will start saying it is legal. This is how rights disappear, gradually, salami style, not with foreign soldiers marching into town.
 
2013-02-27 07:30:17 AM  
Keep in mind DHS says they have the right to stop you and go thru your laptop hundreds of miles from the nearest border and the courts have ruled that legal.
 
2013-02-27 07:33:21 AM  
Papers please

This is beautiful....

I love how he refuses them
 
2013-02-27 07:34:34 AM  
What's always interested me is how many immigrants work for DHS.
 
2013-02-27 07:47:49 AM  
What a dick!
 
2013-02-27 08:13:30 AM  
we are looking for the nuclear wessles in alameda
 
2013-02-27 08:35:11 AM  
Is it wrong I got a stiffy from that video?
 
2013-02-27 08:44:05 AM  
It is interesting to see that this happens to other people than Alex Jones.
 
2013-02-27 08:44:43 AM  
Erosion of rights just there. And most of the people go along with it, that's sad.
 
2013-02-27 08:44:47 AM  
We all love to point and gawk at officious petty authority doing what it does best, over-interpret the rules and cause problems where none could have existed.

Has anyone worked out a better method? What would Reason say we do instead?
 
2013-02-27 08:59:39 AM  
I wish I had the balls to pull this off.  My hat is off to the people in that video.
 
2013-02-27 08:59:48 AM  
I like that last agent. He reminds me of Milton from Office Space.
"Am I being detained?"
"Well, uh... your forward progress is stopped...."
 
2013-02-27 09:11:14 AM  

lucksi: Erosion of rights just there. And most of the people go along with it, that's sad.


The problem is I had no idea that was illegal. I just assumed I had to submit to those checks. They stopped us and searched out entire vehicle in El Paso on our way to California. Like someone else mentioned earlier, had I known better, I wish I'd had the balls to stand up to them.
 
2013-02-27 09:11:52 AM  

WhiskeyBender: Is it wrong I got a stiffy from that video?


No it is not.  I was cheering them on myself.  More people need to see this and understand that this stuff is NOT LEGAL.
 
2013-02-27 09:14:21 AM  
Should have just asked for his driver license. Part of operating a car is that you have to produce it when driving.
 
2013-02-27 09:16:25 AM  
So...aside from the principle of the thing...(and the sovereign citizens movement)...

Is there a reason people refuse to say "I'm a U.S. citizen." and then stop answering questions there?

A bit more legal background on the particular refusal tactic would be appreciated.
 
2013-02-27 09:20:07 AM  
I understand some people like to buck the system and authority, and maybe i am missing the point but the people doing this seem sort of douchebaggy and doing this just to do it.
 
2013-02-27 09:41:58 AM  

Twist-42: I understand some people like to buck the system and authority, and maybe i am missing the point but the people doing this seem sort of douchebaggy and doing this just to do it.


Exactly.
None of them had time to answer the question about being a citizen but they had time to hold up traffic and argue.
Being a douche is more important than just getting the hell out of the way.
 
2013-02-27 09:45:32 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Twist-42: I understand some people like to buck the system and authority, and maybe i am missing the point but the people doing this seem sort of douchebaggy and doing this just to do it.

Exactly.
None of them had time to answer the question about being a citizen but they had time to hold up traffic and argue.
Being a douche is more important than just getting the hell out of the way.


No, you guys are missing the point entirely.  if no one refuses their questions (and the entire operation) at all they are free to do it.  The problem is that they have no authority to do it so someone has to stand up.  If one does, more do.  If more do eventually it goes away.

Don't be a lemming and learn to stand up for your rights.
 
2013-02-27 09:45:35 AM  
I appreciate the video, but I think the best part about the whole thing is that at every checkpoint after refusing to cooperate, the people were eventually sent on their way... so despite the complaints about a police state,etc... It could be worse
 
2013-02-27 09:46:42 AM  

SmellsLikePoo: I appreciate the video, but I think the best part about the whole thing is that at every checkpoint after refusing to cooperate, the people were eventually sent on their way... so despite the complaints about a police state,etc... It could be worse


That's the point.  Stopping this stuff now prevents it from getting to that point because the transition from what we have now to a true police state would be to great for anyone to agree to.  Little by little, however it could happen unopposed.
 
2013-02-27 09:48:03 AM  
I feel like some of the folks here could stand to take a civics course or two.  It's like you have no idea what the principles of our constitution are.
 
2013-02-27 09:57:31 AM  

Kuta: So...aside from the principle of the thing...(and the sovereign citizens movement)...

Is there a reason people refuse to say "I'm a U.S. citizen." and then stop answering questions there?

A bit more legal background on the particular refusal tactic would be appreciated.


Twist-42: I understand some people like to buck the system and authority, and maybe i am missing the point but the people doing this seem sort of douchebaggy and doing this just to do it.


They refuse because they can.  We as a people, as citizens, as foreign travelers of the US have rights that are guaranteed by the constitution.  We don't have to answer questions, show papers, or be subject to illegal search or seizure.  If more of us stood up this kind of crap would disappear.  Know your rights.
 
2013-02-27 09:58:08 AM  
I'm interested in how the ones that didn't show the entire stop actually played out.  Hopefully like the others did.

These clips made me realize it's time to let my balls drop and use my rights when the opportunity arises.
 
2013-02-27 10:00:17 AM  
Oh, and I like how the one agent tries to "win" by saying "You're free to go because I am now satisfied that you are a citizen of the United States".
 
2013-02-27 10:04:31 AM  
The last one wins.  Asking the DHS for their US issued ID...

"where have you been today sir"

Winning
 
2013-02-27 10:10:48 AM  
The issue I have with the people performing these perfectly legal acts is that they are not very articulate with why they don't have to answer the questions.  If they just presented a very clear case of why they don't have to, cite the areas of law that offer them the protection then I would be 100% behind these people.
 
2013-02-27 10:20:05 AM  

Kuta: So...aside from the principle of the thing...(and the sovereign citizens movement)...

Is there a reason people refuse to say "I'm a U.S. citizen." and then stop answering questions there?

A bit more legal background on the particular refusal tactic would be appreciated.


They're out to get themselves famous jerking around with petty authority.

I REFUSE TO FORM JOINDER WITH YOU. I AM A MAN.
 
2013-02-27 10:23:51 AM  
farking glorious.
 
2013-02-27 10:38:50 AM  

Publikwerks: Should have just asked for his driver license. Part of operating a car is that you have to produce it when driving.


Those are federal agents.  There is no federal law requiring you to carry ID while driving.

dazed420: The issue I have with the people performing these perfectly legal acts is that they are not very articulate with why they don't have to answer the questions. If they just presented a very clear case of why they don't have to, cite the areas of law that offer them the protection then I would be 100% behind these people.


Unfortunately the law is not on their side.  The Supreme Court has ruled that these 'border inspections', are constitutional anywhere within 100 miles of the border, even if the authorities have no reason to believe that you have or intend to cross the border.  A border inspection can include a brief stop to ask questions, and apparently can include confiscating suspicious items for a more thorough inspection at a later date.  There's no definitive ruling on what happens if you refuse to answer their questions, and there probably never will be.

Keep in mind that means you can be stopped without a warrant, without probable cause, without even an articulable suspicion, anywhere with 100 miles of 'the border'.  For now, officials are mostly confining this to the US/Mexico border (which is presumably why folks on the east coast or near Canada don't seem to care).  But that still includes the entire town of Tuscon, the entire San Diego metro area, all of I-8 and parts of I-10.  I haven't been able to drive from Phoenix to SoCal any time in the last two years without being 'detained' by IHS goons 50 miles from the border asking me about my citizenship.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty/are-you -l iving-constitution-free-zone

Kuta: Is there a reason people refuse to say "I'm a U.S. citizen." and then stop answering questions there?


Presumably because in the U.S. we don't feel we should have to explain to the government that we have a right to be here.

If Sheriff Joe was doing the exact same thing in Phoenix (which is only 20 miles further north) the outrage would be palpable.  But if it's federal agents doing it on an interstate it's apparently perfectly acceptable and we should all just submit rather than hold up traffic.

jehovahs witness protection: None of them had time to answer the question about being a citizen but they had time to hold up traffic and argue


Yes, they have time to stand up for the rights that you won't.
 
2013-02-27 10:43:37 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Wow. What the fark, America? This real?


I have family living in Texas. Was there visiting over the holidays. They told me that on on drive from Laredo to San Antonio we would encounter one of these checkpoints and I was like, dafaq? Sure enough, they weren't kidding. Now normally I shake my head at attention whores with cameras, but this "papers please!" checkpoint really grinds my gears. Good on them for having the stones.
 
2013-02-27 10:45:01 AM  
This video is the reason why I dislike some people. Sure some cops can be ass hats but I really dont see problems with just answering the questions getting on my way and letting the cop go back to wishing he was doing what he wanted to do when he applied to be on the force.

This is how I feel when I see videos like this: http://youtu.be/16K6m3Ua2nw
 
2013-02-27 10:47:39 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Twist-42: I understand some people like to buck the system and authority, and maybe i am missing the point but the people doing this seem sort of douchebaggy and doing this just to do it.

Exactly.
None of them had time to answer the question about being a citizen but they had time to hold up traffic and argue.
Being a douche is more important than just getting the hell out of the way.


That's right citizens; the constitution is only valid when it comes to the second amendment. The fourth? You'll just have to ignore that one or be labelled a douche.
 
2013-02-27 11:00:50 AM  
DHS officer: "I'm ordering your to pull your vehicle forward and into that lane."

"Orders? You're giving me orders? Amigo, the only thing in this world that gives orders is balls, you got that? Balls."
 
2013-02-27 11:09:55 AM  
If only every amendment in the bill of rights had an equivalent to the NRA working tirelessly to defend it.  Guess there's no money to be made defending the 4th though.
 
2013-02-27 11:12:25 AM  

SmellsLikePoo: The last one wins.  Asking the DHS for their US issued ID...

"where have you been today sir"

Winning


+1
 
2013-02-27 11:13:11 AM  
So... if I want to successfully smuggle drugs/people/arms/chemical weapons/dirty bombs into the country, I just need to follow the example in this very helpful video and simply refuse searches at DHS checkpoints?

Good to know.  Thanks, freedom fighters!
 
2013-02-27 11:15:56 AM  
DHS chumps are one thing.  Responses like those in the video to local PD will send you to the hospital or the grave.  Where did we go wrong in this country?
 
2013-02-27 11:28:39 AM  

NicoFinn: lucksi: Erosion of rights just there. And most of the people go along with it, that's sad.

The problem is I had no idea that was illegal. I just assumed I had to submit to those checks. They stopped us and searched out entire vehicle in El Paso on our way to California. Like someone else mentioned earlier, had I known better, I wish I'd had the balls to stand up to them.


I'd like to sue the DHS to force them to display gigantic signs going into these checkpoints saying, "You are not legally obligated to answer any questions or submit to any searches."
 
2013-02-27 11:33:30 AM  

CoonAce: DHS chumps are one thing.  Responses like those in the video to local PD will send you to the hospital or the grave.  Where did we go wrong in this country?


Depending on where you live, you don't have to submit your ID when asked even by local police (situation depending on whether or not you're walking, driving, etc, of course). Check your local and state laws before being an Freedom Fighter, though.
 
2013-02-27 12:17:48 PM  

CoonAce: DHS chumps are one thing.  Responses like those in the video to local PD will send you to the hospital or the grave.  Where did we go wrong in this country?


Police officers still need probable cause to stop you and ask for your ID.  If they have PC, then you have to give them ID.  Otherwise, don't talk to the police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

And I say this as a former cop.
 
2013-02-27 12:19:24 PM  

Kuta: So...aside from the principle of the thing...(and the sovereign citizens movement)...

Is there a reason people refuse to say "I'm a U.S. citizen." and then stop answering questions there?


They seem like tea party people or something.

If I were one of those agents I'd be satisfied that they were citizens the moment they started acting like ones.
 
2013-02-27 12:19:30 PM  
Death by inches.  Throw wrenches into the machine or eventually be ground up in to hamburger by it.
 
2013-02-27 12:22:25 PM  
Would be nice to see the ACLU (or someone legitimate) post an entry entitled: "Civil Disobedience and the Fourth Amendment: Refusing Unwarranted Searches Away from the Border." Could include what federal agents are charged with doing as their jobs, why they believe it is unwarranted, what you can (politely) do to respect your rights a bit beyond the simple "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" bit.

I understand some people like to buck the system and authority, and maybe i am missing the point but the people doing this seem sort of douchebaggy and doing this just to do it.

The point is, if enough people refused to let federal DHS agents search without probable cause away from the border, then the checkpoints would disappear and *EVERYONE* could freely pass.
 
2013-02-27 12:45:54 PM  

LivingDeadX1: Acting like an asshole expends a lot more energy, time, and resource for all involved then simply answering a couple questions and going on your merry way.


Immigration checkpoints away from the border expend way more energy, time and resources than any amount of assholing ever could.
 
2013-02-27 12:46:31 PM  
If trying to solve the immigration problem involves me driving through a checkpoint where I have to state I am a citizen, then I have no problem with it.

"Sir are you a citizen?"

"Yes"

Beyond that scope then yes I would deem it an infringement of my rights. More my right to not be annoyed during my already annoying drive lol.

Want to really worry about our rights, search "indefinite detention".
 
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