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(Fox Sports)   To keep hatred of lawyers in America at the correct levels, an Orlando lawyer is figuring out how get money out of NASCAR for 3 of the spectators injured during Saturday's crash at Daytona. If only there were some kind of disclaimer on the tickets   (msn.foxsports.com) divider line 76
    More: Florida, NASCAR, Daytona, Orlando, fibulas, NASCAR fans, personal injury, witness, field of play  
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917 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Feb 2013 at 5:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-26 10:19:47 PM
In other news, three spectators horribly injured during Saturday's crash at Daytona have had to sell all their possessions and their houses and declare bankruptcy to cover their medical bills, reaching into the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
When asked for a comment, one NASCAR owner put down his glass of 50 year old scotch, tapped ash from his Cuban cigar into the silver tray held by one of his servants, and coughed delicately into his silk handkerchief, saying "quite unfortunate for those poor folks. My heart goes out to them. However, they signed a disclaimer, so..."
 
2013-02-26 11:26:02 PM
Obvious tag got hit by a flying engine
 
2013-02-26 11:53:23 PM
Yeah, disclaimers are there just to make you doubt before calling a lawyer. Actually  works most of the time.
 
2013-02-27 12:02:29 AM
Had that car not hit exactly where it did, a pole that actually was braced to another close-by pole, it would have gone through/over the fence.

NASCAR's negligence in requiring tethering of the suspension components with a cable, which is a requirement in F1, is not covered by the waiver on the back on the ticket, IMO.

The fans were in reliance that foreseeable safety measures were put in place by NASCAR, like suspensions separating from cars. It appears to me that they weren't.
 
2013-02-27 12:12:01 AM
Not a big Nascar fan, but I hope they don't settle out of court, and if it gets to court, they win.
 
2013-02-27 12:22:55 AM

John Buck 41: Not a big Nascar fan, but I hope they don't settle out of court, and if it gets to court, they win.


Here's how this goes down. They hire the lawyer. NASCAR sends their lawyer to talk to their family. The NASCAR lawyer says: We're not going to settle. You're going to drop the case. The NASCAR community is not only prepared to pay for all your medical bills as part of a charity foundation set up. Who's your favorite driver? We'll get him down here to say hello to you, take pictures with your family. Or you can sue is, and we can spend years in court in a protracted legal battle, which we will win because we have the money, the connections, and there's a reasonable expectation that cars will crash at a racetrack. The choice is yours.
 
2013-02-27 12:23:14 AM

acanuck: Had that car not hit exactly where it did, a pole that actually was braced to another close-by pole, it would have gone through/over the fence.

NASCAR's negligence in requiring tethering of the suspension components with a cable, which is a requirement in F1, is not covered by the waiver on the back on the ticket, IMO.

The fans were in reliance that foreseeable safety measures were put in place by NASCAR, like suspensions separating from cars. It appears to me that they weren't.


I know right? I mean seriously! Why in the hell aren't NASCAR cars tethered like form... wha? Oh.. they are?

Oh, well. Ok then.

And, as so eloquently put by Dumb-Ass-Monkey,

"Show me where you would have attached the tether and had it make a difference"

binaryapi.ap.org


/That said... It seems that removing the gates would indeed help the fence integrity, but freak things will still happen when you hit a fence at just the right angle. Ask Dan Wheldon.
 
2013-02-27 12:27:23 AM

WhoIsWillo: John Buck 41: Not a big Nascar fan, but I hope they don't settle out of court, and if it gets to court, they win.

Here's how this goes down. They hire the lawyer. NASCAR sends their lawyer to talk to their family. The NASCAR lawyer says: We're not going to settle. You're going to drop the case. The NASCAR community is not only prepared to pay for all your medical bills as part of a charity foundation set up. Who's your favorite driver? We'll get him down here to say hello to you, take pictures with your family. Or you can sue is, and we can spend years in court in a protracted legal battle, which we will win because we have the money, the connections, and there's a reasonable expectation that cars will crash at a racetrack. The choice is yours.


Pretty much this is exactly what I expect to have happen.

/Of course, after getting out of the hospital and spending a few days hanging out with Tony Stewart for a few days at his place in Indiana... [He'd be down, he loves hanging out with people and showing off his new digs]  I would have one last request... Bruton Smith's head on a pike. Then we would be square.
 
2013-02-27 12:44:57 AM

Shadow Blasko: ... It seems that removing the gates would indeed help the fence integrity, but freak things will still happen when you hit a fence at just the right angle. Ask Dan Wheldon.


Every form of motorsports, and every track they race on, has at least one example of a vehicle hitting a fence at exactly the wrong place and/or the wrong angle

/sh*t happens when you go fast
//the closer you are to the going fast, the more likely you are to be involved in said sh*t
 
2013-02-27 12:47:35 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: //the closer you are to the going fast, the more likely you are to be involved in said sh*t


Pretty much.

/Likes the distance between the seats and the fence at Kentucky.
 
2013-02-27 01:37:20 AM

WhoIsWillo: John Buck 41: Not a big Nascar fan, but I hope they don't settle out of court, and if it gets to court, they win.

Here's how this goes down. They hire the lawyer. NASCAR sends their lawyer to talk to their family. The NASCAR lawyer says: We're not going to settle. You're going to drop the case. The NASCAR community is not only prepared to pay for all your medical bills as part of a charity foundation set up. Who's your favorite driver? We'll get him down here to say hello to you, take pictures with your family. Or you can sue is, and we can spend years in court in a protracted legal battle, which we will win because we have the money, the connections, and there's a reasonable expectation that cars will crash at a racetrack. The choice is yours.


That's called settling.
 
2013-02-27 01:59:40 AM
t2.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-27 02:55:17 AM
You can write anything you want on the back of a ticket or on a sign in the parking lot,

But I don't believe you can write yourself a blanket waiver or liability, No matter what the fine print says, any spectator's lawyer would argue that a fan has a reasonable right to expect that the fence surrounding a track is sufficient to protect spectators from 200mph race car crashes. NASCAR/Daytona would, of course argue that they took all the normal and generally accepted precautions, and that this was an unforeseeable event.

Who is right? Might as well flip a coin. But I believe NASCAR and their insurers would gladly settle for a nice sum out of court rather then risk letting a giant payout precedent get set. And no doubt the plaintiff would try to figure a way to file the suit in some not-NASCAR loving area- like New England.

Of course I ain't no lawyer, so who knows.
 
2013-02-27 03:54:14 AM

acanuck: Had that car not hit exactly where it did, a pole that actually was braced to another close-by pole, it would have gone through/over the fence.

NASCAR's negligence in requiring tethering of the suspension components with a cable, which is a requirement in F1, is not covered by the waiver on the back on the ticket, IMO.

The fans were in reliance that foreseeable safety measures were put in place by NASCAR, like suspensions separating from cars. It appears to me that they weren't.


IIRC, the major body components and the tires have to be tethered to the vehicle. I could be wrong, since it's been four or five years since I worked a NASCAR race, but I seem to recall some of the components had to be tethered.
 
2013-02-27 04:07:46 AM
I'm not seeing what I'm supposed to be outraged about.
 
2013-02-27 04:55:39 AM
I think NASCAR should (as a show of good faith) offer to pay the medical bills and lost wages if they have missed any work. If they could get this done with no lawyers involved that would be great, however we are such a litigious society that this will not happen. Oh, and tickets for next years race.

It is just like I told my non race fan friends, Had the unthinkable happened and somebody died in this event, it wouldn't be the first time nor will it be the last time somebody died whilst attending a racing event
 
2013-02-27 05:10:31 AM

log_jammin: I'm not seeing what I'm supposed to be outraged about.


A lawyer is doing something. As one of the most hated creatures on Earth, secondary to only the Canadians and the Gays, you should be frothing at the mouth angry and willing to pick up a torch and pitchfork right this instant.
 
2013-02-27 05:30:39 AM

Shadow Blasko: /That said... It seems that removing the gates would indeed help the fence integrity, but freak things will still happen when you hit a fence at just the right angle. Ask Dan Wheldon.


Or Dale Earnhardt.  And his crash didn't look that bad when it happened.
 
2013-02-27 05:34:14 AM
On the other hand, "you accept and know the risks" should in no way absolve NASCAR and/or DMS of the responsibility to keep the fans the same orientation as they came in.  That's the big thing I hate about "we assume no responsibility" disclaimers.  Sure, there are things that are out of their control, like break-ins in the parking lot, but there are plenty of things within their control, like, say, flying automotive debris going into the stands.  It's basically a CYA move so that these speedways don't have to spend money building expensive safety barriers.
 
2013-02-27 05:58:20 AM

IlGreven: On the other hand, "you accept and know the risks" should in no way absolve NASCAR and/or DMS of the responsibility to keep the fans the same orientation as they came in.  That's the big thing I hate about "we assume no responsibility" disclaimers.  Sure, there are things that are out of their control, like break-ins in the parking lot, but there are plenty of things within their control, like, say, flying automotive debris going into the stands.  It's basically a CYA move so that these speedways don't have to spend money building expensive safety barriers.


Yeah, those disclaimers are worth about the same as the paper they're printed on if you take something to a real court. Negligence is negligence, regardless of what your ticket says- Nascar has a duty to protect its spectators against foreseeable hazards.
 
2013-02-27 06:28:57 AM
NASCAR is already dealing with the loss of sponsorships and wide swaths of empty seats at most tracks -- even Bristol's night race hasn't sold out for a few years -- and the Frances use the word "safety" in front of the camera with the same frequency that "porn" shows up in the average farker's search history.

You'd have to huff a LOT of Rust-O-Leum out of half-melted Walmart bags to think they'd want more bad publicity on this -- NASCAR will settle, and fast.
 
2013-02-27 06:54:21 AM

Shadow Blasko: MaudlinMutantMollusk: //the closer you are to the going fast, the more likely you are to be involved in said sh*t

Pretty much.

/Likes the distance between the seats and the fence at Kentucky.


The Kentucky Derby?  Cause that could get MESSY.
 
2013-02-27 07:05:17 AM
I knew it was the Morgan law firm before I even clicked the link.
 
2013-02-27 07:18:54 AM
Actual signed waivers get tossed all the time.  The small print on the back of the ticket is a shaky basis for your legal defense.
 
2013-02-27 07:25:50 AM
Should be an interesting battle between ultra hazardous activity and assumption of risk
 
2013-02-27 07:32:55 AM
If we can build a craft that can survive atmospheric reentry at thousands of mph surely we can stop debris flying at 200mph
 
2013-02-27 07:32:59 AM

davidphogan:


That took way too long.

Let 'em crash!
 
2013-02-27 07:57:13 AM

Macinfarker: If we can build a craft that can survive atmospheric reentry at thousands of mph surely we can stop debris flying at 200mph


That part is easy. Doing that while allowing spectators to still see the cars is a bit harder.
 
2013-02-27 08:05:33 AM
People who watch NASCAR should be killed. People who watch NASCAR in person should be killed by flying debris. I can't wait for a car to fly into the stands and then do like a lint-roller and mop up sections 127 through 135. I'll watch the coverage on ESPN of the Derp Family Reunion in Derpsville and say "Fashionably late, Darwin".
 
2013-02-27 08:15:33 AM

davidphogan: [t2.gstatic.com image 293x172]


Came here solely for that.
 
2013-02-27 08:26:06 AM

Theaetetus: In other news, three spectators horribly injured during Saturday's crash at Daytona have had to sell all their possessions and their houses and declare bankruptcy to cover their medical bills, reaching into the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
When asked for a comment, one NASCAR owner put down his glass of 50 year old scotch, tapped ash from his Cuban cigar into the silver tray held by one of his servants, and coughed delicately into his silk handkerchief, saying "quite unfortunate for those poor folks. My heart goes out to them. However, they signed a disclaimer, so..."


And to think, they used to have health insurance, but since Obamacare made their employer cover birth control, they decided to drop coverage entirely leaving them out in the cold when some catastrophic event happens like this.

Thanks, Obama!
 
2013-02-27 08:26:57 AM

SevenizGud: People who watch NASCAR should be killed. People who watch NASCAR in person should be killed by flying debris. I can't wait for a car to fly into the stands and then do like a lint-roller and mop up sections 127 through 135. I'll watch the coverage on ESPN of the Derp Family Reunion in Derpsville and say "Fashionably late, Darwin".


OMG you're sooooo kewl.
 
2013-02-27 08:27:35 AM

acanuck: NASCAR's negligence in requiring tethering of the suspension components with a cable, which is a requirement in F1, is not covered by the waiver on the back on the ticket, IMO.


Show me an open straightaway where the F1 fans are parked right on top of the track.

F1 cars are also all about downforce, so they rarely go airborne unless Petrov or Webber is behind the wheel.
 
2013-02-27 08:27:45 AM
There are disclaimers on baseball tickets as well as verbal announcements and messages on the scoreboards to make it known bats and balls can enter the stands.

But hey, when those tragi-lotto numbers hit  you gotta cash in.  Otherwise think of all the lawyers and judges who might actually have to work for a living.
 
2013-02-27 08:30:07 AM

UNC_Samurai: F1 cars are also all about downforce, so they rarely go airborne unless Petrov or Webber is behind the wheel.


Grosjean is going to pout now.
 
2013-02-27 08:32:07 AM
I wonder how many Group B rally fans sued?
i72.servimg.com
/seriously, I don't know
 
2013-02-27 08:34:00 AM

SevenizGud: People who watch NASCAR should be killed. People who watch NASCAR in person should be killed by flying debris. I can't wait for a car to fly into the stands and then do like a lint-roller and mop up sections 127 through 135. I'll watch the coverage on ESPN of the Derp Family Reunion in Derpsville and say "Fashionably late, Darwin".


Will you jerk-off to it though?

That's the real question.
 
2013-02-27 08:34:05 AM

InfrasonicTom: There are disclaimers on baseball tickets as well as verbal announcements and messages on the scoreboards to make it known bats and balls can enter the stands.

But hey, when those tragi-lotto numbers hit  you gotta cash in.  Otherwise think of all the lawyers and judges who might actually have to work for a living.


If you can prove willful negligence than a waiver doesn't mean a hill of beans. This was talked about a lot in baseball in the exploding bat days. Many people said that despite the waiver on the ticket and warnings, if a broken bat flew into the stands and hurt somebody that MLB would probably be held liable in court because it could be proven that they knew that the bats that they were using at the time broke at much higher rates than the previous bats that were used.
 
2013-02-27 08:36:00 AM

UNC_Samurai: acanuck: NASCAR's negligence in requiring tethering of the suspension components with a cable, which is a requirement in F1, is not covered by the waiver on the back on the ticket, IMO.

Show me an open straightaway where the F1 fans are parked right on top of the track.

F1 cars are also all about downforce, so they rarely go airborne unless Petrov or Webber is behind the wheel.


Never underestimate Disaster or Grosjean.
 
2013-02-27 08:47:20 AM

acanuck: Had that car not hit exactly where it did, a pole that actually was braced to another close-by pole, it would have gone through/over the fence.

NASCAR's negligence in requiring tethering of the suspension components with a cable, which is a requirement in F1, is not covered by the waiver on the back on the ticket, IMO.

The fans were in reliance that foreseeable safety measures were put in place by NASCAR, like suspensions separating from cars. It appears to me that they weren't.


You mean the same fans that cheer when a wreck occurs, and pretend to give a fark when it actually kills a driver?

I love motorsports, I hate the fans. Too bad they didn't DIAF like a driver, maybe then they wouldn't be so quick to foam at the mouth when they see a car go airborn.

/sympathy, I have none asshole.
 
2013-02-27 08:54:39 AM

ongbok: InfrasonicTom: There are disclaimers on baseball tickets as well as verbal announcements and messages on the scoreboards to make it known bats and balls can enter the stands.

But hey, when those tragi-lotto numbers hit  you gotta cash in.  Otherwise think of all the lawyers and judges who might actually have to work for a living.

If you can prove willful negligence than a waiver doesn't mean a hill of beans. This was talked about a lot in baseball in the exploding bat days. Many people said that despite the waiver on the ticket and warnings, if a broken bat flew into the stands and hurt somebody that MLB would probably be held liable in court because it could be proven that they knew that the bats that they were using at the time broke at much higher rates than the previous bats that were used.



Of course it could be proven, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE farkING WARNINGS EVERY farkING WHERE.
 
2013-02-27 09:06:14 AM
The disclaimer on a ticket is called a force majeure clause.  They're not always effective for what the ticket seller wants them to do.

See this for the situations where they will be upheld.
 
2013-02-27 09:10:22 AM
Here's the wording on the ticket:

The holder of this ticket  expressly assumes all risk incident to the event, whether occurring  prior to, during or subsequent to the actual event, and agrees that all  participants, sanctioning bodies, and all employees, agents, officers,  and directors of Daytona International Speedway, its affiliates and  subsidiaries, are hereby released from any and all claims arising from  the event, including claims of negligence.
 
2013-02-27 09:17:26 AM
What makes them sometimes ineffective (depending on text and jurisdiction) is that this is a contract, yet the buyer has no ability to negotiate the terms...they are terms that are forced upon the buyer.

Sure, you can argue that you needn't buy a ticket in the first place...I'm just presenting the argument for why courts sometimes don't enforce them.
 
2013-02-27 09:17:33 AM
Either way, the wreck was cool to watch
 
2013-02-27 09:20:15 AM

Theaetetus: In other news, three spectators horribly injured during Saturday's crash at Daytona have had to sell all their possessions and their houses and declare bankruptcy to cover their medical bills, reaching into the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
When asked for a comment, one NASCAR owner put down his glass of 50 year old scotch, tapped ash from his Cuban cigar into the silver tray held by one of his servants, and coughed delicately into his silk handkerchief, saying "quite unfortunate for those poor folks. My heart goes out to them. However, they signed a disclaimer, so..."


In other news, three spectators have money to spend to go to a NASCAR race in Daytona instead of health insurance and disability insurance.
 
2013-02-27 09:31:10 AM

Hang On Voltaire: Theaetetus: In other news, three spectators horribly injured during Saturday's crash at Daytona have had to sell all their possessions and their houses and declare bankruptcy to cover their medical bills, reaching into the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
When asked for a comment, one NASCAR owner put down his glass of 50 year old scotch, tapped ash from his Cuban cigar into the silver tray held by one of his servants, and coughed delicately into his silk handkerchief, saying "quite unfortunate for those poor folks. My heart goes out to them. However, they signed a disclaimer, so..."

In other news, three spectators have money to spend to go to a NASCAR race in Daytona instead of health insurance and disability insurance.


You realize that it's regular people like you & me who pay their hospital bills if NASCAR doesn't, right? Whether they have insurance or not.
 
2013-02-27 09:32:33 AM

Hang On Voltaire: Theaetetus: In other news, three spectators horribly injured during Saturday's crash at Daytona have had to sell all their possessions and their houses and declare bankruptcy to cover their medical bills, reaching into the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
When asked for a comment, one NASCAR owner put down his glass of 50 year old scotch, tapped ash from his Cuban cigar into the silver tray held by one of his servants, and coughed delicately into his silk handkerchief, saying "quite unfortunate for those poor folks. My heart goes out to them. However, they signed a disclaimer, so..."

In other news, three spectators have money to spend to go to a NASCAR race in Daytona instead of health insurance and disability insurance.


It's funny that almost any tragedy that occurs in the US functions as a very strong argument for a publicly funded single payer health care system.
 
2013-02-27 09:32:52 AM

The Muthaship: Here's the wording on the ticket:

The holder of this ticket  expressly assumes all risk incident to the event, whether occurring  prior to, during or subsequent to the actual event, and agrees that all  participants, sanctioning bodies, and all employees, agents, officers,  and directors of Daytona International Speedway, its affiliates and  subsidiaries, are hereby released from any and all claims arising from  the event, including claims of negligence.


Would grinding the frame rails on the 36 be negligence?
 
2013-02-27 09:35:23 AM
Wouldnt a disclaimer presume that NASCAR fans can read?


/trolling
 
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